2016 Postmortem
Related: About this forumGuess what Paul Krugman said about Obama supporters in 2008.
Hate Springs EternalThe bitterness of the fight for the Democratic nomination is, on the face of it, bizarre. Both candidates still standing are smart and appealing. Both have progressive agendas (although I believe that Hillary Clinton is more serious about achieving universal health care, and that Barack Obama has staked out positions that will undermine his own efforts). Both have broad support among the partys grass roots and are favorably viewed by Democratic voters.
....Why, then, is there so much venom out there?
....I wont try for fake evenhandedness here: most of the venom I see is coming from supporters of Mr. Obama, who want their hero or nobody. Im not the first to point out that the Obama campaign seems dangerously close to becoming a cult of personality. Weve already had that from the Bush administration remember Operation Flight Suit? We really dont want to go there again.
He doesn't care much for Berniebros either.
99th_Monkey
(19,326 posts)Mr. Krugman has been jonesing for his Clinton cabinet position now, for as long as Hillary's
been jonesing to get into the WH.
Why am I not surprised?
madfloridian
(88,117 posts)bjobotts
(9,141 posts)He's a good economist whose opinion is worth hearing but he's just making an observation. Don't make it into something it's not...a huge problem.
madfloridian
(88,117 posts)sabrina 1
(62,325 posts)should direct him to Flint Michigan where those neoliberal policies, privatization, austerity which Hillary supports, were in full play and caused, what they have everywhere they have been put in place, disaster for the victims.
Can't say I ever paid much attention to his views, there are a whole host of economists whose views were of far more interest to me especially when they turned to be right.
Oh, and as an Obama supporter then and a Bernie supporter now, I guess I'm just one of those awful cultists who are 'looking for a hero'. Now that is Third Way propaganda if ever I heard it.
madfloridian
(88,117 posts)Broken record.
Fast Walker 52
(7,723 posts)Zen Democrat
(5,901 posts)He was against Obama.
He is against Bernie.
Promises must have been made.
senz
(11,945 posts)That's how the Clintons operate.
beam me up scottie
(57,349 posts)It's like someone sucker punching you then putting on glasses and expecting not to get hit back.
madfloridian
(88,117 posts)Can't resist.
Gregorian
(23,867 posts)Richard D. Wolff is Professor of Economics Emeritus, University of Massachusetts, Amherst where he taught economics from 1973 to 2008. He is currently a Visiting Professor in the Graduate Program in International Affairs of the New School University, New York City. He also teaches classes regularly at the Brecht Forum in Manhattan.
Earlier he taught economics at Yale University (1967-1969) and at the City College of the City University of New York (1969-1973). In 1994, he was a Visiting Professor of Economics at the University of Paris (France), I (Sorbonne).
Education
BA in History from Harvard College (1963);
MA in Economics from Stanford University (1964);
MA in History from Yale University (1967); and a
PhD in Economics from Yale University (1969)
floriduck
(2,262 posts)madfloridian
(88,117 posts)Just to be clear: Im not saying that someone like Mr. Sanders is unelectable, although Republican operatives would evidently rather face him than Mrs. Clinton they know that his current polling is meaningless, because he has never yet faced their attack machine. But even if he was to become president, he would end up facing the same harsh realities that constrained Mr. Obama.
The point is that while idealism is fine and essential you have to dream of a better world its not a virtue unless it goes along with hardheaded realism about the means that might achieve your ends. Thats true even when, like F.D.R., you ride a political tidal wave into office. Its even more true for a modern Democrat, who will be lucky if his or her party controls even one house of Congress at any point this decade.
Sorry, but theres nothing noble about seeing your values defeated because you preferred happy dreams to hard thinking about means and ends. Dont let idealism veer into destructive self-indulgence.
That's pathetic....more of back to the more like the other party so we won't be defeated stuff.
Betty Karlson
(7,231 posts)And he's becoming VERY impatient with the general public's reiterated desire for anyone NOT representing the status quo. The general public, meanwhile, is growing very impatient too.
bvar22
(39,909 posts)He is real good at that,
but not so good at political hit pieces.
Laughably transparent.
A 5th grader could see right through his bull shit.
bjobotts
(9,141 posts)for Hillary over Bernie does not make his opinion bullshit. I support Bernie and Krugman. Look people just because a person prefers Clinton does not make them stupid or bad or full of bullshit so stop with the circular firing squad. Facts are not attacks and opinions are not facts...they are democracy at work. So stop with the insults already.
If you want to invalidate a person's preferences then tell why don't attack them for having one.
truedelphi
(32,324 posts)Hard. But quite often his work ends up doing despicable things like bringing about NAFTA, rather than championing the cause of the middle class.
Odin2005
(53,521 posts)It was an invention of Swedish banksters in the 60s.
bvar22
(39,909 posts)especially the selling of NAFTA has done much damage to our economy.
That is not "theory". That is fact.
The Nobel Committee damaged their legitimacy and credibility after awarding President Obama the "Peace Prize" before he ever warmed up the seat in the Oval Office. I'll bet they regretted THAT one after the surges, drone assassinations, destruction of Libya, and spreading the WAR to other countries.
Former Nobel chief: Obama Peace Prize a failure
In a just-released book, Geir Lundestad, director of the Nobel Institute for 25 years until stepping down last year, said the prize committee had expected the honor to deliver a boost to Obama, something he believes did not happen.
Speaking to The Associated Press, Lundestad, who sat in on the secretive committee's meetings but did not have a vote, said the committee "thought it would strengthen Obama and it didn't have this effect."
"In hindsight, we could say that the argument of giving Obama a helping hand was only partially correct," he wrote, according to VG, a Norwegian newspaper."
http://www.usatoday.com/story/news/2015/09/18/former-top-nobel-official-says-maybe-obamas-peace-prize-was-not-such-a-good-idea/72396794/
It seems that the secret Nobel Committee cares MORE about giving their favorites a "helping hand" than they care about actual science, peace, or contributions to humanity...
which makes then political, NOT impartial.
I've lost a lot of respect for Nobel Prizes.
madfloridian
(88,117 posts)He is brilliant, I've read him for years.
But once a person or groups allow themselves to be manipulated into attacking good people who want the best for their party.....they lose a certain amount of credibility.
Romulox
(25,960 posts)madfloridian
(88,117 posts)cali
(114,904 posts)madfloridian
(88,117 posts)He's looking foolish.
I feel bad for trusting his expertise.
#FollowtheMoney
mountain grammy
(26,655 posts)MisterP
(23,730 posts)then he became one
madfloridian
(88,117 posts)MisterP
(23,730 posts)I'm not saying even 20% of Obama '08 or Clinton '16 people were/are slavering Jonestown fodder
there's no reason to pretend Rahm's corpo icebreaker is some closet liberal
madfloridian
(88,117 posts)MisterP
(23,730 posts)and I don't care any more: they're cyberbullies that nobody's stood up to for almost two decades and have hollowed out the party into a warmongering machine that's hemorrhaging voters and entered an arms race to the right with the GOP that has left the country utterly dysfunctional
the only way to start any work with them is to start my making them stop being swaggering little hall monitors and Grover Dills, or to just identify and work around them
madfloridian
(88,117 posts)have hollowed out the party into a warmongering machine that's hemorrhaging voters and entered an arms race to the right with the GOP that has left the country utterly dysfunctional
Now that is true.
Doctor_J
(36,392 posts)What makes you special?
MisterP
(23,730 posts)AtomicKitten
(46,585 posts)madfloridian
(88,117 posts)AtomicKitten
(46,585 posts)retrowire
(10,345 posts)HAHAHAHAHAAHAHA
OMG That's rich! Krugman's a freaking shill!
whathehell
(29,095 posts)but rejects it now that Bernie does.....I see.
ErisDiscordia
(443 posts)AzDar
(14,023 posts)frylock
(34,825 posts)bvf
(6,604 posts)They're all murmuring, "Treasury Secretary Krugman..."
Stargleamer
(1,990 posts)WTF is up with that? I mean it, WTF is up with that? Are her plans picture perfect?? Or does she not have the guts to come up with a plan to get us to Single Payer like Bernie is trying to do? Can't you realize how disingenous and unfair it is, not to least compare and contrast Bernie's plans with those of Hillary's??
ChisolmTrailDem
(9,463 posts)Todays_Illusion
(1,209 posts)Kip Humphrey
(4,753 posts)mountain grammy
(26,655 posts)Armstead
(47,803 posts)I was thinking, when I had a spare moment of perusing the Interwebs for all the similar stuff from camp Clinton towards Obama's awful cultlike bullying supporters in 2008.
Same crap, just recycled with a different name.
madfloridian
(88,117 posts)There's a lot to compare.
appalachiablue
(41,177 posts)pie in the sky, idealism, rainbows and unicorns are worn verbiage. There must be many other synonyms. But 'Utopia' exists, the one enjoyed by the high level, neoliberal investor class based on numerous reports published in the last 20 years documenting steady decline for working Americans and the middle class. Given the direction change is inevitable.
Akamai
(1,779 posts)embrace of the government being the employer of last resort, etc.
However, his views on the Bernie are misguided, I believe.
MisterP
(23,730 posts)not neoliberal, a Keynesian even!
it's the blank-screen effect--if Krugman likes it he assumes the guy he's chosen likes it
Akamai
(1,779 posts)Also research shows that religious people tend to think that God agrees with them. And certainly the Republicans think this way.
Bluenorthwest
(45,319 posts)It's really offensive to see someone phone it in like this. I've seen a few DUers who attack Bernie using the same material they used against Obama but I assumed a paid professional would work up some fresh stuff just to keep himself looking awake.
bjobotts
(9,141 posts)madfloridian
(88,117 posts)FloriTexan
(838 posts)This part cracked me up: "although I believe that Hillary Clinton is more serious about achieving universal health care"....
madfloridian
(88,117 posts)MerryBlooms
(11,772 posts)Bill USA
(6,436 posts)So Charles Gaba, whose excellent site ACA Signups has been a huge secret resource for those of us covering health reform, is getting the Bernie Bro treatment. Never mind his long service to the cause of covering the uninsured (and his declaration that hell support either candidate in the general): [font size="+1"]his carefully laid-out explanation of his support for Hillary Clintons incremental approach means that hes a corrupt tool of the oligarchy.
Oh well. Meanwhile, the Sanders skepticism of the wonks continues: Paul Starr lays out the case. As far as I can tell, every serious progressive policy expert on either health care or financial reform who has weighed in on the primary seems to lean Hillary. This could be because being in the trenches of the health care fight gives you an acute sense of the possible, and because having paid close attention to the financial crisis makes you a shadow-banking, not too big to fail guy. Or it could be because they are, one and all, corrupt corporate lackeys. I report, you decide.
Just to be clear, Sanders himself is not at fault here. And if Hillary is the nominee, I expect him to do what she herself did in 2008, and will surely do if he wins an upset: make it clear that whatever their differences, and whatever the primary losers personal frustration, theres no comparison with the reactionary extremism of all the GOP candidates.
But its disappointing to see so much intolerance over what are basically differences in strategy, not goals.
gosh, has Krugman been reading the Sanders supporters posts on DU??? He'S spot on with regard to intolerance of other opinions and demonization of the opponent and any of her supporters!
If you don't fall in line with bernie supporters thinking you are OBVIOUSLY A "CURRUPT TOOL OF THE OLIGARCHY" ...LOL!!!!
madfloridian
(88,117 posts)I was called that when I supported Howard Dean in 2004. I was called that when I supported Obama in 2008.
Now I am being called that in 2016 when I am supporting Bernie Sanders.
It's use is almost meaningless now, and in a way it shows desperation.
Bill USA
(6,436 posts)I could articulate reasons for my support.
Scootaloo
(25,699 posts)Can't complain when they fire back.
Especially when you tried the same thing eight years prior.
Krugman's problem is that a more progressive economy means he can't play the act of "lone prophet in the wilderness" anymore. And while I suppose he's able enough as a Keynsian economist, I would hardly think he's the only one. A Sanders administration would return keynsian economics to the mainstream, and krugman would have to compete (oh, the horror) with lots of other economic wonks of that stripe.
By hte way, your font seems to be a little haywire.
madfloridian
(88,117 posts)Yes, he must be using larger font. Many do, but it shouldn't carry over for us. That's strange.
MADem
(135,425 posts)Maybe you missed it?
"The truth is in 2007 and 2008, sometimes my supporters and my staff, I think, got too huffy about what were legitimate questions Clinton was raising," Obama said, adding that he sees this manifesting in Sanders' movement in 2016.
http://mashable.com/2016/01/29/bernie-sanders-berniebros/#a2knMtxPdmqR
The entire interview is fascinating--worth either reading or listening to:
http://www.politico.com/story/2016/01/off-message-podcast-transcript-obama-218167
madfloridian
(88,117 posts)at least that's what I hear here.
GeorgeGist
(25,323 posts)SOME.
MADem
(135,425 posts)Lage Nom Ai
(74 posts)and time when he can reuse the same crap every election cycle.
madfloridian
(88,117 posts)senz
(11,945 posts)by attacking her opponent's supporters, and it is her negatives that will sink her.
madfloridian
(88,117 posts)He is not fond of Bernie or his supporters.
Frankly I'm tired of just Bernie's supporters being fussed at.....the others are not so hot themselves.
senz
(11,945 posts)and it's clear his objectivity has gone out the window.
Autumn
(45,120 posts)madfloridian
(88,117 posts)Annoying as heck.
Autumn
(45,120 posts)madfloridian
(88,117 posts)And a LOT of it.
Warren DeMontague
(80,708 posts)Imagine that!
SoapBox
(18,791 posts)It gets rather tiresome!
And are people like him SO dumb, that they don't know that all their crap can be retrieved by a simple Google search?
So dumb.
madfloridian
(88,117 posts)You are right.
Zynx
(21,328 posts)olddots
(10,237 posts)he must be wicked smart .
madfloridian
(88,117 posts)I always consider men with such beards as intellectuals.
Baitball Blogger
(46,758 posts)is best for the country. I can't see any other reason behind all this concern over candidates that are willing to take on Wall Street.
merkins
(399 posts)"Only when the tide goes out do you discover who's been swimming naked."
So many wonks, pundits and pols that I thought were progressive .. its a revelation.
Mc Mike
(9,115 posts)He's done a lot of good writing. He's just wrong, in this case.
Warren DeMontague
(80,708 posts)GOD DAMN BROBAMAS.