Something for the Sanders folks to think about as we go to New Hampshire...

[brooklynite]

Half of the votes in Iowa, one of the most liberal Democratic States, went to Hillary Clinton. They weren't political sellouts, they weren't afraid of retribution, they actually "like" her, as hard as it may be to believe.

[Logical]

1. Oh FFS does your side sound desperate. Nt

[brooklynite]

6. 15 min ago, someone on your side said Al Franken MUST be angling for a VP slot...

...it was the only explanation for his support of Clinton.

[Logical]

8. Lol, you really sound silly. Nt

[TCJ70]

2. Do they?

How many times have we repeatedly heard, from people on this very board, that they like Sanders and agree with his views, but they don't view him as electable? That doesn't equal "I like Hillary". It equals "I'm being held hostage".

[bvf]

12. "I'm being held hostage"!

How wonderfully put!

[thesquanderer]

94. Exactly. She won about 75% of those who thought electability was the biggest issue.

as shown at:

http://www.democraticunderground.com/10141333906

Lots of people voted for Hillary for electability, not because they "liked" her (or preferred her positions).

If Bernie had convinced people he could win in November, he would have done much better. There have been tons of polls that show he does as well or better than Hillary against the Republicans in November, but he's had to fight a dismissive media. This will be part of his challenge going forward, but hopefully Iowa has started to shift things.

[yourout]

3. Iowa is NOT one of the most liberal Democratric States.

They are as purple as purple can be.

[FrenchieCat]

9. No, but their Democrats are liberal....

Just like their conservatives are very conservative!

[noiretextatique]

31. Do you mean "liberal," like Hillary is "progressive?"

these words have little meaning these days.

[brooklynite]

10. I'm talking about the Democratic Primary electorate...

...the Primary will be taking up to many States that are more moderate.

[mythology]

99. The Iowa Democratic caucus goers are

http://fivethirtyeight.com/datalab/bernie-sanders-could-win-iowa-and-new-hampshire-then-lose-everywhere-else/

There's a lovely graph about half way down the page and shows the percentage of liberals in the 2008 primaries and Iowa came in 3rd behind Vermont and New Hampshire.

One thing that doesn't look good for Sanders is this coming out of the Iowa caucuses.

In 2008, she lost voters in Iowa who described themselves as “very liberal” (almost all of whom were white) to Barack Obama by 24 points. Among self-described “moderates,” by contrast, she lost by only two points. This year, she lost “very liberal” Iowans to Bernie Sanders by 19 points. Among “moderates,” she beat him by 23 points.

So Clinton actually did slightly better with liberal voters and far better with moderate voters in Iowa in 2016 as compared to 2008.

[elleng]

4. brooklyn, on another subject,

do you know what happens to the MO'M votes/delegates?

[JonLeibowitz]

11. Don't they go to whoever O'Malley ends up backing? That's why they call them kingmakers

at the convention. I guess we'll have to add "queenmakers" to the dictionary, perhaps.

[brooklynite]

14. Any Sanders Delegates go on to the County convention

They have the right to vote as they want; what they do may depend on whether O'Malley endorses someone or releases his delegates.

[elleng]

15. So MO'M has to do something?

[brooklynite]

17. Not legally...he just needs to give guidance

[elleng]

25. Gotcha.

[thesquanderer]

92. He didn't get enough votes to win any state delegates (n/t)

[FrenchieCat]

5. It was a tie.....

so you still need to be posting over at the Hillary Forum.

This is the Bernie political discussion forum.
You know that!

[brooklynite]

16. I never post in the Hillary forum...and the Bernie forum won't let me

[Autumn]

7. Well I think I got more bang for my buck

[BlueCaliDem]

53. Bernie got 21 delegates so far. There are only two remaining. Hillary Clinton got 28.

Are you sure you got "more" bang for your buck?

I know I have.

[Autumn]

54. Yeah I got more.

A lot more

[BlueCaliDem]

60. Yeah, um, I don't see the benefit. For months I had to read how Bernie would win both Iowa

and New Hampshire easily ( I continued to predict that Hillary would win Iowa).

Well, Bernie's still behind in both delegates and votes, and the precincts that are still tallying the votes are strong-Clinton precincts.

Bernie has lost Iowa. You as a Bernie supporter...how do you see that as a win?

[Autumn]

66. I see Bernie as a win and I am content with our progress so far.

[BlueCaliDem]

83. Excellent.

[virtualobserver]

76. what kind of money did she have to pay for the superdelegates?

[BlueCaliDem]

84. You've got evidence to back up that outrageous claim?

I'd like to see it. Otherwise, it's just another nasty CT since you've got nuthin' else.

[virtualobserver]

85. It isn't a claim....you said you got more "bang for the buck"

for the 28 delegates, inflating the number with superdelegates

but only 23 of the delegates came from the immense spending by Robby Mook

the other 5 are superdelegates.....which had nothing to do with the caucus.
So bucks had nothing to do with that.

23-21 is not much of a bang for the buck

[BlueCaliDem]

87. If you were selling something for $19 but you were offered $21 and another offered $23

for it, you're telling me you'd choose the $21 offer? On what planet is that a sane idea?

It's still 23 > 21.

[virtualobserver]

88. not worth the enormous sums that Mook spent for a narrow victory

[FloridaBlues]

107. Got a viable link to bribery statement you toss out?

[thesquanderer]

93. The Super Delegates votes are changeable right up to the convention

That's how Hillary lost some to Obama in 2008. So you can't actually count on those. She has 23 firm delegates. Still, it's better than having 21.

[BigGLiberal]

100. But, they won't change their minds. They are Democrats.

So yes, she can count on those.

[neverforget]

13. And the other half went to the guy from Vermont!

[Armstead]

19. I remember a few short weeks ago -- Bernie was going to be "skunked"

I think you should spare us your words of wisdom

[Bonobo]

20. Brooklynite. we came from "you got no chance" to THIS.

If you imagine that your "something to think about" is going to diminish our sense of victory at this toe to toe outcome, you are very wrong.

The shit just got real.

[MrMickeysMom]

21. Apparently, they don't like her enough, though...

This is a revolution

[morningfog]

22. She doesn't have a snowball's chance in hell in NH. His lead there is historic.

[BigGLiberal]

102. That's what they said in 2008. She won coming from double digits behind

And Bernie is certainly no Obama, not even close.

[morningfog]

103. LOL. Sanders lead in NH is unprecedented, including 2008.

[jillan]

23. Something for you to think about - Hillary is NOT inevitable.

[Depaysement]

24. Here's something for the Clinton folks to think about as we go to NH

You're going to lose in NH, not exactly the most liberal Dem electorate.

[brooklynite]

26. I remember another Clinton who lost in New Hampshire...

...to a candidate from next door.

[Depaysement]

34. Long time ago

Hillary Clinton, with all her money, power, influence and tony Brooklyn Heights fundraisers, just tied an old Midwood Socialist she was beating by 25 in Iowa a few months ago.

[John Poet]

67. And she was leading him by 61 percent a few months before that.

No mistake-- this is an embarrassment for Hillary Clinton.

Bernie Sanders wins a moral victory here,
for achieving a virtual tie
when he had everything against him.

[AgadorSparticus]

105. Absolutely! Hillary should have won by a WHOLE lot more.

This is a huge message.

[Donald Ian Rankin]

98. Not the most, the second most...

To be precise, the state with the second highest fraction of white, very liberal voters in the Democratic primary. Only Vermont is more so. And, not coincidentally, one of those states is Sander's home state, and the other is right next door to it.

?w=575

Clinton is indeed going to lose in New Hampshire, and also in Vermont, and quite possibly in one or two of the other states at the top of that chart (although it's encouraging that she won Iowa, the third most demographically favourable state to Sanders). But she's almostly certainly going to win most of the rest.

[whatchamacallit]

27. Why?

Why should we? Bernie's ascending and Hillary is descending.

[Divernan]

28. Ho w sour are thy grapes!

[SMC22307]

78. From the Brooklyn Museum.

Just because.

[Dawson Leery]

29. Most polls had Berns ahead.

They were wrong.

[reformist2]

32. In Iowa?! I think you know better than that...

[bunnies]

30. I live in nh. You don't know shit about us.

We're not rich like you but we're smart enough to vote for sanders.

[Divernan]

33. "Clinton will support TPP After Election"

Lil shout out to you from the folks at Truthout & just in time for New Hampshire race:

Chamber of Commerce Lobbyist Tom Donohue: Clinton Will Support TPP After Election
By Robert Naiman
Truthout | Sunday, 31 January 2016

In an interview from Davos with Bloomberg TV on January 20, Chamber of Commerce President Tom Donohue - a top lobbyist for the pro-corporate-power Trans-Pacific Partnership (TPP) agreement - assured viewers that if Hillary Clinton wins the presidential election, she will support the TPP, even though she opposes it now.

Reporting on the interview, Inside U.S. Trade noted:
The Chamber president said he expected Hillary Clinton would ultimately support the TPP if she becomes the Democratic nominee for president and is elected. He argued that she has publicly opposed the deal chiefly because her main challenger, Sen. Bernie Sanders (I-VT), has also done so. "If she were to get nominated, if she were to be elected, I have a hunch that what runs in the family is you get a little practical if you ever get the job," he said.

Donohue also said TPP will not be voted on prior to the election because Senate Republicans do not want to do anything that could jeopardize Republican Senators in close races. But he said he believed there was a 75 percent chance that TPP would get done in the lame-duck session after the election.

CONTINUED...

http://www.truth-out.org/opinion/item/34629-chamber-of-commerce-lobbyist-tom-donohue-clinton-will-support-tpp-after-election

[beltanefauve]

97. This could be

an OP in and of itself.

[Arugula Latte]

35. Lol.

[Samantha]

36. Chuck Todd (of all people) looking at NH Sanders has a 20 to 30 point lead over Hillary

depending on which poll one believes.

Sam

[frylock]

37. Hillary choked away a 40-point cushion in a little over 3 months.

Sleep tight, brooklynite!

[FrenchieCat]

38. Sanders was +8 points ahead 5 days ago....

or that is what I read here!

[frylock]

39. 40 points..

damn...

[FrenchieCat]

40. When you've got the Corporate media bringing up emails

every 5 minutes....
including 2 days before the vote...

yeah.....your candidate could suffer.

You'll see very soon when your candidate is vetted,
what it's like to have them attacked relentlessly,
and there ain't much that you can do about it...

It would be like if Bernie won the Nomination, and was ahead of Rubio,
then there was a terrorist attack in the US, 5 days before the vote.

Karma will be a ___________

[frylock]

43. I think we're watching karma unfold right now..

You'll see very soon when your candidate is vetted is what Hillary Supporter said in 2008 as well.

[FrenchieCat]

45. Sanders ain't Obama.....

Obama had to be damn near perfect....

Good looks,
young,
tall,
dark (but not too dark)
Orator,
dress nicely,
Beautiful young family,
Harvard Law Degree, and President of Harvard Law Review,
Religious enough,
had already won in a 12 million population state representative demographically of States Dems need to win,
as well as ties to Hawaii,
Organizer extraordinaire,
with just a short stint in the Senate
Center Left (to win Ohio),
Great life story,
Star at Keynote speaker of Democratic National Convention,
and had written 2 best sellers,
and won a Grammy....

and still caught hell from the media!

But then, Black folks have to be twice as good in order to come out on top!
That I know!

[frylock]

48. But Hillary is Hillary..

and if her vaunted oppo research team hasn't found dirt on Sanders, it ain't out there.

[FrenchieCat]

49. That is an assumption on your part....

She learned her lesson well enough in 2008....
and since the GOP want Sanders,
She have to simply work hard to beat him on the electability issues...which is a real issue...
and if she loses,
then I'm sure the GOP will have at him!
Good luck then!

[frylock]

50. Riiiiiiiiiight. Hillary's trained monkey, David Brock, is just playing nice.

And we're the ones that believe in unicorns and leprechauns?

[FrenchieCat]

55. There are reporters who have been boosting Sanders for some time now...

so please, don't get tunnel vision!

As for unicorn, etc....
I've never said a thing about that anywhere!

I'm a person,
not a "They"....so stop treating me as such!

Thank you

[frylock]

56. Who? HA Goodman?

[FrenchieCat]

58. I remember a story dropped 2 days ago about emails....

it was all over the news!

Didn't you see it?

[frylock]

65. Yes, Hillary is her own worst enemy. Just one instance of poor judgment after the next.

I suppose you'd like to silence the press.

[FrenchieCat]

68. She hasn't done anything wrong on that and you know it....

it's just a bludgeon being used....
and since she running against a candidate you support,
you have no problem in throwing it at her....

But most of what I see here from you and your colleagues are innuendos, rumors, name calling, red meat,
and just saying the most terrible thing about one of the most accomplished woman in
America.....

The GOP does it too, so she's used to it by now tho....

But she ain't close to any of those things being thrown at her....

But I understand politics,
and I'm sure that when its your candidate's turn (by the GOP)
I'm sure you will remember too, what it's like to be at the receiving end...

remember this post of mine.

[840high]

86. +10

[aikoaiko]

82. Quite a remarkable comparison you made there.

HRC's mishandling of emails is like a terrorist attack on the US.

[brooklynite]

42. I'll sleep well tonight...

Sanders had 9 months to catch up in Iowa and NH...

There are 48 other States to go, and very little time between them to move votes en masse

[frylock]

44. It's all about the mo.

[riversedge]

62. That is a good way to look at the issue--a tight calender. Thanks.

[basselope]

41. They don't like her... the are just afraid of losing.

[FrenchieCat]

46. Who is they?

and how would you know about "they"?

BTW, who are you?

[basselope]

70. They are the people who voted with their "head" over their "heart"

I know about "they" because I interact with them on a daily basis.

For those who are passionate about Sanders I have been trying to convince them to heed Bill Maher's words that if you can't eat the fish, eat the chicken.

Most of THEM are vowing to sit out this election if Clinton is the nominee, because they have no interest in voting for her.

I don't sit out elections and will eat the chicken, but ONLY for the Supreme Court. I believe her policies are just extensions of everything the democrats have done wrong since the 1990s.

Who am I?

I was one of the leaders in the Howard Dean for president movement. THE first person to donate online to his campaign. I reached out to Rob Reiner and helped get him involved in the campaign and helped get him to show up to meet ups in the Los Angeles area.

I have been eminently disappointed with the democratic party since then and became a registered independent. I voted green in 2004, 2008 and 2012 (because I am in California I have the luxury).

For the first time since 2004 I have donated to a national candidate because there is finally someone in the democratic party actually trying to solve the problems.

I am still trying to encourage my friends in swing states to please vote for who ever the nominee is, but it is a VERY tough sell because Clinton is a difficult candidate to apologize for.

[FrenchieCat]

71. Those folks will have to do what they so choose....

and if they so choose to burn down the house in order to save it....and that is their eventual goal, as opposed to beating the GOP, then so be it.

If they are interested in not allowing a GOP trifecta, and additions to the Supreme court that will negate many voting rights, civil rights, and destroy planned parenthood, make abortion illegal, etc., etc., etc..., then they will vote for the Democratic nominee, whomever that might be.

If its a hard sell to save the most vulnerable in our country at all cost as a goal, that just means that their agenda is a different one from those who would want to teach a lesson by allowing the entire country (and the world) to be trashed!

[basselope]

74. As far as they are concerned, both candidates burn down the house.

I can't say I completely disagree... it is just the speed at which it burns.

Clinton is bad for the Country.. the Republicans are worse.

I would choose the lesser of two evils in the hopes that in the future people wake up and vote for real change.

However, it is difficult to argue with someone who doesn't want to vote for Clinton.. she doesn't give us anything to vote FOR.

[Arazi]

47. Lol, desperation...

[notadmblnd]

51. yeah, they like her

but not as much as she thought.

[HassleCat]

52. Thinking... thinking... thinking...

...and done! Sanders should quit right now! Go out on a high note. That's right. Sorry it took me so long to get it.

[Fearless]

57. The new goal post moving meme??

[Rosa Luxemburg]

61. Hillary was supposed to win big according to the polls?

[JPnoodleman]

63. If she hadn't betrayed every left leaning value I might take her seriously....

But Single Payer is never happening apparently, TTP is going through, along with a whole parade of horrible things.

Trust me, I WANT to believe she is some secretly good person, but every policy position of hers is terrible were it counts.

[Ken Burch]

64. A lot of them bought the "only HRC can win" myth.

Also, it has just turned out that the results 90 precincts are now in question in Iowa due to Iowa Democratic Party understaffing, so nobody's actual vote share is carved in stone at this stage.

Nobody ever expected HRC to lose Iowa in a blowout.

[SheilaT]

69. I don't live in Iowa, so my impressions may not be valid,

but perhaps a significant percent of her turnout was among those who like Bernie but honestly think he's not electable in the General Election. Despite all the polling that indicates otherwise.

I spent a couple of hours earlier this evening with a good friend, a strongly liberal Democrat. We don't often talk politics. About two months ago I first brought up Bernie to her, and she said she like him but didn't think he was electable. We have not discussed that since then, in no small part because our friendship is vastly more important than politics. But I do hope she is changing her mind.

[Flying Phoenix]

72. How about you stop lecturing us

It shows your pompousness.

Go vote for Clinton for all I care, but don't lecture us Bernie supporters. We will vote who we see as the natural choice and leader of the United States. Clinton just follows the rulers of Wall Street.

[DrDan]

73. actually, more than half . . . that's how she WON

[basselope]

75. Actually... less than 1/2 and 6 coin flips.

[DrDan]

91. you really should read and try to understand those coin-flips

[riversedge]

95. Here, let me illustrate the difference between a tie and a win, okay?

Laurel Davila, CPA ‏@laureldavilacpa 16h16 hours ago

Here, let me illustrate the difference between a tie and a win, okay? #ImWithHer #IAcaucus

[basselope]

96. Both still ties.

[Jarqui]

77. About three months before, a lot more people preferred Hillary with a 30 point lead

But when they found out about Bernie, the bailed out on her. That's not a long time to give up 30 pts. I suspect, with that trend, Hillary's lucky the caucus wasn't a week or two later.

Bernie's numbers are still improving while Hillary's are falling.

[Bjornsdotter]

79. And half of them didn't

....half of them said "Not Hillary".

[Hiraeth]

80. No, we can't.

[Armymedic88]

81. Iowa Democrats are mostly activists minority of them are liberal big difference

[AgingAmerican]

89. Iowa is about as unliberal as you can get

You sound desperate with this nonsense.

[djean111]

90. And half of them did not vote for Hillary.

In any event, I support Bernie because of issues and records, not who else is supporting and/or voting for him. That's set in stone.

[Armstead]

101. She is very polarizing

Both within the Democratic Party and in the nation at large.

A lot of people like her. Many tolerate her. A lot can't stand her.

[Kelvin Mace]

104. Ignorance is rampant among the electorate

You even find it here on DU.

[beachbum bob]

106. new hampshire if bernie can't muster 60% of the primary vote

in his backyard...he has no chance in Illinois or New York or California....