I love it. Hillary wins, Bernie fans declare Bernie the winner.

[DanTex]

A state heavily slanted towards Bernie demographically, where Bernie fans have been gleefully predicting victory for weeks, and somehow a loss turns into a win.

My favorite argument is that this proves Bernie is electable. Losing a caucus in a state full of white liberals proves that Bernie is a viable national GE candidate. LOL.

[beachbum bob]

1. like the karl rove moment when Ohio was called for obama

we will hear the whining now for the next few months...the fact that bernie will not get the majority of the democratic women voted is lost on bernie supporters...

[stonecutter357]

70. just like karl rove.

[Loudestlib]

128. Exactly!

Hillary is running her campaign just like Karl Rove would.

[stonecutter357]

132. Are you a true Bernie supporter ?

[roguevalley]

142. she did lose

Read the polls. Read the predictions. Read the articles about inevitability. She lost and so did the lies about inevitability, unelectability and voter apathy. She was projected to win by a dozen points. She lost.

[1StrongBlackMan]

155. If you are projected to win by 100 and you win by 1 ... how in the world is that a loss? ...

It was a close win ... it may be considered a "moral victory"; but, never the less, it wasn't a loss.

[sammythecat]

236. No, technically it wasn't a loss. She won by 1/10 of a percent. 699/695

It's more like Man O' War, projected to win easily by several lengths, winning by a nose over a much smaller unknown horse. For the owner of Man O' War, that is very worrisome.

Little by little, day by day, Hillary has been losing support and it's going to Bernie Sanders.

[1StrongBlackMan]

243. NO TECHNICALLY TO IT ... Bernie lost. Period. Full Stop, until the next contest. ...

Last I read ... Bernie had HRC by about 30 points in N.H. I doubt very seriously that should Bernie win by 5, or even 1, any HRC supporter will be calling it a "technic win".

[sammythecat]

246. No, should Hillary lose by 5, or 1, in NH it would just mean

her slide continues. But having said that, a very narrow win by Bernie in NH would be troubling to me. He needs a solid win there just as I believe Hillary needs a solid win in South Carolina. This early in the race, a very narrow win in SC would be a bad sign for Hillary and an encouraging sign for Bernie.

Fact is, despite the early momentum, the big organization, and the big money, Hillary has her hands full with the underdog, and the outcome of this race is no longer a certainty.

[1StrongBlackMan]

248. Now would closing from -30 to -5 (-1) in N.H., be indicative of HRC "continuing to slide"? ...

But having said that, a very narrow win by Bernie in NH would be troubling to me. He needs a solid win there just as I believe Hillary needs a solid win in South Carolina. This early in the race, a very narrow win in SC would be a bad sign for Hillary and an encouraging sign for Bernie.

I agree ... depending on how one defines "solid win" and "narrow win".

Fact is, despite the early momentum, the big organization, and the big money, Hillary has her hands full with the underdog, and the outcome of this race is no longer a certainty.

I disagree ... there is no one that has looked at the numbers (except the talking heads of cable news and partisans in both camps) that thought Bernie wasn't going to close on (and possibly, beat) HRC in Iowa and lead in N.H., and Vermont.

[sammythecat]

267. A "solid" win...

I don't know exactly how to define it with numbers but, like porn, we'll know it when we see it.

" ... there is no one that has looked at the numbers (except the talking heads of cable news and partisans in both camps) that thought Bernie wasn't going to close on (and possibly, beat) HRC in Iowa and lead in N.H., and Vermont." -- I'm talking about from the begining when Bernie was at 9% and Hillary 75% until right now. A month ago or so, yes, it looked to be close, because Bernie was gaining momentum and Hillary wasn't.

If they wind up in some sort of dead heat in NH I would consider that trouble for Bernie. If it's extremely close in South Carolina that would be troubling for Hillary. I expect she'll win there, but I hope she doesn't.

I have to go to work now. I'll reply later if needed.

[1StrongBlackMan]

271. Statisticians/number folks like Nate Silver ...

was saying that Bernie would close on HRC (and possibly win) months ago.

[intheflow]

247. Yes, but.

The Clinton should not be thinking in terms of absolutes in this outcome. It's numerical win but a campaign loss as Sanders was not supposed to be so close. Both sides can claim strategic campaign wins here.

[1StrongBlackMan]

250. I disagree ...

there is no one that has looked at the numbers (except the talking heads of cable news and partisans in both camps) that thought Bernie wasn't going to close on (and possibly, beat) HRC in Iowa and lead in N.H., and Vermont.

And, those looking at the numbers, ALL are saying: "And then, what/where?" ... And, the Bernie Camp responds: "Magic!!!"

[intheflow]

261. Okay.

We disagree then. I don't think Camp Bernie is responding with "Magic!" any more than I think Camp Clinton is pretending it wasn't a seriously close shave. The truth is (for me) that both camps need to tone down the rhetoric and align their responses to the reality that it could have gone either way. Because no matter what, no matter who wins the nomination, Sanders or Clinton, they will need the others' supporters to win the presidency.

[1StrongBlackMan]

264. Camp Hillary isn't claiming this wasn't a close shave ...

I suspect they are happy getting out of Iowa with a win.

Because no matter what, no matter who wins the nomination, Sanders or Clinton, they will need the others' supporters to win the presidency.

Now here ... we completely agree.

[frylock]

252. woah woah woah!

u mad?

[1StrongBlackMan]

258. No ... I am not mad ...

sad and weepingly perplexed and utterly mystified by members of the supposed fact-based community, i.e. the left, is a better descriptor.

[Number23]

270. You know that's the truth. But these are the same folks that thought that Nate Silver was saying

that Hillary was going to win 85% to Sanders' 15% because 538 was saying that Hillary had an 85% chance of winning so I hope you're not expecting too much.

She won. It was tight and it was EXPECTED to be tight. And she won. Folks need to just deal with that.

Bernie had HRC by about 30 points in N.H. I doubt very seriously that should Bernie win by 5, or even 1, any HRC supporter will be calling it a "technic win".

Every thinking person on this board knows that would never happen.

[Babel_17]

254. Agreed, in that the Sanders campaign looks more electable, and her candidacy more problematic

This is politics, and not fantasy football.

In the larger sense, it's far too early to see the impact Iowa has made on the campaign. Secretary Clinton avoided a defeat that would have been quite embarrassing, and that is good news for her. But Sanders has for the first time ever had people vote to put him into a national office. And that office was that of POTUS, and the people rose up to support him with a record enthusiasm. He split the total number of voters with Clinton, and he has shown the voters in states that haven't seen his campaign yet that something big is coming their way.

Clinton won survival, no small thing, but Sanders won credibility from the referees. Give yourself a treat and read establishment papers like The Washington Post. It looks like Sanders won something, going by them.

[Live and Learn]

282. +1000 She lost in the minds of the public no matter how they try to spin it. nt

[Loudestlib]

159. 308,000

308,000 is the number of Democrats that voted against Gore and for Bush in 2000. It cost us the White House and led to the Iraq war. We need a candidate that can unite our party. Hillary's unfavorable numbers are damning. Bernie's favorable numbers are incredibly high. He's well like by everyone.

I support the only candidate that can win in the general election. Bernie Sanders will take us to the White House and help the down-ticket democrats. That's one of the reasons why I support Bernie Sanders.

[secondwind]

175. hear, hear!

[Lage Nom Ai]

184. Agreed

And I would suggest the Clinton supporters look at the breakdown of voters from last night before they gloat too much.

[Ernest Partridge]

186. Get real!

308K votes did not cost Gore the 2000 election.

It was Kathryn Harris, butterfly ballots, the Yuppy Riot in Miami, and five Supremes.

How quickly and easily we forget.

[Loudestlib]

196. .

"Kathryn Harris, butterfly ballots, the Yuppy Riot in Miami, and five Supremes."

If just 10% of those voters had voted for Gore none of the other events would have mattered.

n/t

[yeoman6987]

230. Gore lost his homestate that was bad

[Live and Learn]

283. +10,000 nt

[KittyWampus]

224. Clinton isn't the one getting funded by Republican pacs

[Hortensis]

241. Be fair, Bernie isn't "funded," just PROMOTED by right-wing PACs

in hopes they'll get to run against him.

[livetohike]

2. Right all those social media polls and huge rallies. He should have won by a landslide! What

happened?

[Art_from_Ark]

3. Given all those polls that Hillary supporters were cramming down our throats

showing Hillary with a commanding lead of 30% or more-- several polls a day, sometimes-- and CBS just recently showed Hillary winning by 9%. Yet with all her money, all her endorsements, all her name recognition, all she could manage in Iowa was a tie.

But hey, maybe her margin of victory would have been greater if she hadn't run off to Philadelphia during the final days of the campaign to shake down banksters for more money.

[Hoyt]

29. Yeah, but those didn't include all those folks on cell phones, or some such.

[Kalidurga]

42. No all she could manage was winning a coin toss.

[Flying Squirrel]

69. 6 of them. nt

[Kalidurga]

240. Yep 6 coin tosses

not one person persuaded to change sides.

[Babel_17]

136. Pretty much

And Sanders supporters walk away feeling good.

But enough of what we think and feel. Are the media still calling Secretary Clinton inevitable? If not, the most exciting contests are yet to arrive.

[John Poet]

253. "It's the MONEY, STUPID!"

New car, caviar, four-star daydream....

[firebrand80]

4. Any States Bernie loses from here on out

Will be moral victories, because he didn't lose by 50.

See how that works?

[Stuckinthebush]

5. It's brilliant

You see, they can now feel good in a moral victory. He can never lose!

[OnlinePoker]

77. 7 coin flips out of 7 went to Clinton.

Just one of those going the other way, Sanders is the winner. Take them out of the equation all together, and it's a clear Sanders victory.

[Stuckinthebush]

79. Jesus wanted her to win

You can't deny that.

[Loudestlib]

134. The devil supports gamblers.

[jonno99]

110. 7 out of 7? Whoda thunk? nt

[stopbush]

201. I wonder what the chances were that your post would be #77 in this thread.

That's a lot of 7s.

[OnlinePoker]

215. LOL

I never even noticed.

[NurseJackie]

6. "Just like 2008!" ...

... I'm guessing.

[AgingAmerican]

168. I don't recall any coin toss in 2008

[yeoman6987]

233. Where Hillary came in 3rd? Hardly the same.

[DanTex]

12. You mean like the fact that Clinton is ahead in almost all the remaining states, and Iowa was one of

the few states that was overwhelmingly white and liberal, giving Bernie a huge demographic advantage?

Or the fact that Bernie fans have been predicting victory for weeks, based on clickbait polls and rally sizes?

[stonecutter357]

75. we just don't know him.

[stonecutter357]

114. There's no rational reason to support Bernie over Hillary.

[stonecutter357]

127. no you can't.

[1StrongBlackMan]

180. WOW ...

keep digging.

[sammythecat]

173. It's more likely you just don't know Hillary for what she really is.

[DebJ]

111. People laugh at this...people who haven't knocked on doors and talked to voters

or potential voters. I've had hundreds of people over the years tell me that they pay no attention until either
the week of an election..when they watch ads, for God's sake, or until 30 minutes before they vote.

And during the Obama/Clinton primaries, I can't tell you how very many people thought that the vote would be
in November. Zero comprehension of the primary process...and actually, the primaries are so very, very critical..
and yet, a large percentage of people don't even know what they are........

I've knocked on hundreds of doors...........

[DebJ]

135. 95% of my door knocking during two Presidential primaries and in the November election

was knocking on the doors in the inner-city, something like 80% minorities, where just keeping up with daily life
is a very real struggle, no time for politics...until you tell them why they should make time. Most of these people,
when I was doing voter registrations, couldn't even identify both major parties; some couldn't even name ONE party
(and Pa has 23 parties... I registered one guy for the Bull Moose Party...he does D or R for the primaries, then switches
to a bizzarro one just for sarcastic fun in the fall).

[1StrongBlackMan]

177. LOL ...

It's also offensive to assume that people who aren't white are already in the bag for Hillary, as if they aren't smart enough to see through her and realize that Bernie is the better option for them.

Did you read that out loud before you pushed "Post my reply"? First, HRC is, and has been, polling very well among people that aren't white.

Secondly, and/but, more offensively, aren't you assuming that those people that aren't white and aren't supporting Bernie, haven't considered the alternatives, but aren't "smart enough" to decide the better option for them?

SIGHHHH ...

[2pooped2pop]

53. Then why do you get so bent out of shape over Iowa?

If you guys are so sure you have everything wrapped up then why do you freak out over every little thing? Sit back and chill a lil. Looks like Hillary won't be replaced now as they planned if she had a clear loss, then you guys must see yourself as golden, as long as she isn't indicted. So I don't understand all the negative stuff directed at Bernie. I mean if you guys are so sure...

[DanTex]

55. Who's bent out of shape? I've been laughing at hilarious Bernie fan memes for months now.

"Win by losing" is just the latest one.

[2pooped2pop]

57. All the hate from Hillary supporters is not coming from a jolly place

[DanTex]

58. I don't know, maybe a little projection there... I think you actually do know how to compare two

numbers and tell which one is bigger.

[2pooped2pop]

62. Not at all if u consider the number of supporters on this site for each candidate.

The lesser Hillary supporters push the hate double time to try to keep up with the number of Bernie supporters. And to be fair lots of people hated Hilary prior but hardly anyone has reason to hate Bernie. He is well liked.

[DanTex]

63. Yes, on DU there are more Bernie supporters. Bernie is sure to be president of DU.

He will institute a DU single payer and tax wealthy DUers to pay for free DU college...

[2pooped2pop]

82. See, like that.

We were talking about DU. I was saying how Hillary supporters seem to think they need to each be extra shitty to pull even with the entire load of Bernie's supporters.

[DanTex]

88. I was talking about the caucus results in Iowa. You brought up the fact that DU has more pro-Bernie

than pro-Hillary people.

As far as who's "extra shitty," I guess that's in the eye of the beholder. But even the media has taken notice of the hateful smearing by Bernie fans of anyone who dares to question him in any way.

[2pooped2pop]

101. The media take their talking points and runs with them.

They have been collectively piling on Bernie after trying g desperately to ignore him. They are owned by what? 6 individuals? They no longer report truth or news but what they are told to report.

[R B Garr]

126. Oh, please! It was non-stop Trump/Sanders golden

outsider status stories for weeks. Bernie got a cakewalk from the press.

[AgingAmerican]

137. Bernie got shunned by the press

Else he would have won by even more

[R B Garr]

157. LOL, the nonstop stories were the so-called outsiders

Trump and Bernie. They were here to save America. Now that story will fade away with both Trump and Bernie losing.

[AgingAmerican]

161. A coin toss

Isn't something to be snarky over

[2pooped2pop]

145. It's not Bernie's fault that Hillary has so much baggage and he doesn't

But apparently u missed the last two weeks of anti Bernie talking points.

[R B Garr]

174. LOL, do you see the contradiction there?

Sanders should have won since Clinton has 'baggage" but he lost. Sanders himself even tried to throw the 'damn emails" in Clinton's way but he still lost. So much for "baggage".

The media plugged his golden outsider status constantly. Cakewalk, and he still lost.

[2pooped2pop]

219. I wouldn't really call that's loss.

[redstateblues]

204. DU college! That's pretty funny

[Lage Nom Ai]

198. Or

The large number of independent votes and the 70% margin on younger voters that you and yours are now passing off. You know those who typically stay home.

[Proud Liberal Dem]

8. They're talking about this is horrible for Clinton

The fact that she won (by a razor thin margin) in a state where Bernie was heavily favored and one that she doesn't need to win (and where she lost badly in 2008) should be good for her campaign overall IMHO. Bernie made a strong showing too but his close loss doesn't portend a future victory for him as some of his supporters are trying to argue.

[thesquanderer]

91. Bernie heavily favored?

What happened to "the last 6 major polls show Hillary winning" and "Nate at 538 says Hillary has 80% chance of winning"? This is what this board was full of only a couple of days ago. About the only people "heavily favoring" Bernie to win were the Bernie supporters.

In fact, since the beginning of the capaign, I'm not sure think there were *any* polls that heavily favored Bernie... as I recall, they either favored Hillary, or they were very close.

[Flying Phoenix]

107. We were told, polls after polls that Clinton would win Iowa

So, we worked hard, and Clinton invested 90% of her resources in Iowa, and now it is nearly all gone, and she's not going to gain delegates fast enough for her to call it a coronation.

So yeah, this is a win for Bernie, who started with 4% in Iowa when we started, and finished with more than 49% and less than 50%.

Bernie already said he is getting half of the delegates from Iowa.

[kenfrequed]

154. Yeah...

There really were only a few polls where Bernie was ahead and even Bernie supporters were saying that the CNN poll was a huge outlier. Granted the ones that had Hillary 5% or more out front were robo-polls (which no one should really take seriously) but all the "respected" establishment pollsters had Hillary winning it by at least three percentage points.

Bringing it within 0.4 against a candidate that was inevitable mere months ago is a victory of a sort.

Anyone that walks out of Iowa when 6 districts had to have coin flips to determine the winner and decides to declare themselves the victor is cartoonish in their attempt to master the spin cycle.

[Proud Liberal Dem]

229. The Iowa electorate favored Bernie

n/t

[beachbum bob]

9. only one precinct not reported as of 5am this morning

and in a clinton majority area and even if bernie should win it, not enough....... A single precinct had yet to report as of 5 a.m. Eastern time; that precinct, in Des Moines, is worth 2.28 state delegate equivalents.

Read more: http://www.politico.com/story/2016/02/iowa-caucus-2016-donald-trump-bernie-sanders-218547#ixzz3z0wu1pMt

[virtualobserver]

10. 6 coin tosses...

those tosses.....double the margin of victory

4 months ago....Hillary led by 30 to 40 points in iowa polls

[cascadiance]

100. I wonder who O'Malley's delegates will vote for?

They could switch who "wins" later in the actual vote for state delegates, since they have more than the margin of victory in delegate count.

Also Many Iowa caucus Romney supporters back in 2012 found out later that their celebrations were a bit premature.

[virtualobserver]

109. I don't know, but this has worked out better than I ever imagined

Functionally this is a win.....and Team Hillary is in disarray......Bill Clinton is second guessing Hillary's campaign manager.

Good things do not come out of campaigns with dissension.

[thesquanderer]

122. O'Malley didn't win any delegates to the state convetion

With 99% of the results in, Clinton got 22, Sanders got 21, O'Malley got zero, with one remaining to be assigned. (There are also "super delegates" who favor Clinton, but they can change their mind right up to the convention.)

[cascadiance]

208. Actually I was speaking of State Delegate Equivalents as they actually call them...

... which they were showing running totals for all night which is more measuring the actual vote totals and what presumably will be used for state delegates that will later be winnowed down to the actual delegate totals. Note here that with the state delegate equivalent totals, Martin O'Malley has a number larger than the margin of difference between Sanders and Clinton.

http://www.slate.com/blogs/the_slatest/2016/02/02/hillary_clinton_won_the_iowa_caucus_says_state_democratic_party.html

Hillary Clinton: 699.57 state delegate equivalents
Bernie Sanders: 695.49 state delegate equivalents
Martin O’Malley: 7.68 state delegate equivalents
Uncommitted: 0.46 state delegate equivalents

Nope in the final totals that will go to the national convention, O'Malley has no delegates. But he does have numbers of local state convention delegates here that could swing the total towards Sanders' favor if they were all to go to Sanders (or a large majority of them).

Note this part of the above article too:

Despite some controversy over short-staffed precincts late Monday, the Sanders campaign says that it doesn’t foresee contesting the final results—though it is calling on the state party to release the raw vote count from the night. It’s unclear if the party will release the vote—or even if they have an accurate tally given how the chaotic caucus process works—but Bernie is hoping that a raw vote total will allow him to claim his own qualified victory despite his narrow loss in the delegate column. There is a strong case to be made that more Iowans showed up to caucus for Sanders on Monday night than did for Clinton. That’s because a precinct with seven county delegates awards seven county delegates regardless of whether seven people show up to caucus or 700 do. Given that Bernie’s support appeared to be concentrated around college campuses—while Clinton’s appeared more evenly spread out across the state—it’s possible that he was short-changed by the system. In one Sanders-heavy precinct near the University of Iowa, for example, 646 people showed up to caucus on Monday, a roughly 70 percent jump from 2008. (That caucus occurred earlier in the year, when many students were still home for winter break.)

[Thor_MN]

195. I've seen the Gopher Basketball team lead in several Big Ten games this year.

And several games where the have been down by large margins. At the end of all of those games, they were behind and lost.

The only thing that matters is the score at the end of the game...

Still laughing?

[virtualobserver]

197. yes I am....Hillary's camp is filled with dissension

This was a body blow to Team Hillary.....It damaged her inevitability.

[Thor_MN]

207. Huh, who knew that your biases and beliefs control the nomination?

At the end of the game the team with the most points wins. It's a cliché if used as quote in a sports report. But it is a fact, none the less.

Iowa was a (narrow) victory for Clinton. Plenty of games left in the season, but trying to pretend it was anything other than a win for Clinton and a loss for Sanders is just silly.

[virtualobserver]

225. not belief or bias.....reports that Robby Mook is being sidelined

Bill is not happy.....Old guard Clinton people being brought in to take over.

The only thing that is silly is to call a caucus won by coin tosses a win.

[Thor_MN]

232. Who has more delegates at this point? nt.

[virtualobserver]

237. the important question is....whose bubble of invincibility has been punctured

watch the national polls over the next week

[Thor_MN]

239. You go ahead and follow your hopes...

I'll stick with the facts.

[Bonobo]

11. Sigh, you're right, Dan. It was a stunning victory for Hillary.

Feel better?

[DanTex]

17. I felt great the whole time. I never believed the clickbait polls to begin with. And now I get to

watch the mental gymnastics of Bernie fans while enjoying my morning coffee.

[Bluenorthwest]

102. Dan Tex the day after Christmas: "Clinton is ahead by a comfortable margin."

And yet it came down to a virtual tie involving coin tosses. You believed that comfortable margin, you touted the luxuriousness of the margin's size. Coin toss.

Des Moines Register poll of January 2015: Clinton 56%; Sanders 5%
Des Moines Register poll of December 2015: Clinton 48%; Sanders 39%

Feb 2016: Coin toss.
http://www.democraticunderground.com/1251949108#post1


So if the question is 'how correct has Dan Tex been about the polling, eventual results and that comfortable margin' the answer is not even close to correct. There was no margin. It was a literal toss up. I don't recall you mentioning that sort of squeaker.

This outcome suits me just fine, my first objective each cycle is to see a long, strong Primary that does not settle itself until most of America has voted. A coin tossing tie is just exactly what Dr Bluenorthwest ordered. Love it.

Jan 2015 5%. December 2015 39%. Feb 2016, coins tossed. That's a trend I can get behind. Of course December 2015 you were still saying 'comfortable margin'. About a month ago. Coin toss. Comfortable. Toss up. Trends.

Have a nice morning.

[DanTex]

105. DanTex today: Clinton wins the Iowa caucus.

It's great that you are happy with Hillary's win. So am I. Maybe we don't disagree about very much after all.

[Flying Phoenix]

113. Bernie wins the debate on Thursday.

Bernie convincingly wins NH, leaving Clinton with little or no delegates.

Moving on to Nevada, Bernie's already polling very close to MoE again,

then the final of the first four before ST, South Carolina, Bernie is already gaining momentum each day, polls confirm closing gap.

If Bernie wins the next three, I wouldn't be surprised to see ST states break for Bernie (as he is very well-organized in all 11 states participating, and already busy canvassing) giving the Clinton SD's reason to dump Clinton like a bad habit and back Bernie.

Clinton's momentum has already started going downward, she had a brief hiccup, but it is now back on a downward tread.

[Bluenorthwest]

179. I'm in an occupation that is full of direct competition and when I actually win I am very happy

to say so. However, there are many times when I prevail by winning the prize in which I did not really defeat the other persons, on some occasions they defeat themselves on others they are not any competition at all, these are not really cases of me 'winning' so much as them losing.
In some cases the decision gets made based on arbitrary elements such as availability and in those cases the competition is a draw, the prize goes to the one who can show up that week.

I don't celebrate wins that are not clear, decisive and taken by my own actions. I still take the prize, you bet. But I don't poison my own well by ignoring the actual conditions and nuances of the competition.

If I win by a coin toss or other tie breaking means, I won by chance, not by skill. Personally I have found it very important to bear that in mind for future outings.

If I was either of them, I'd be seeing a dead heat. If I was Bernie, I'd be pretty happy with this outcome, if I was Hillary it would both annoy and motivate me. For me, as a Democratic voter the tie is the best of all possible outcomes. A long drawn out primary is the best thing for our Party, and great for the States that are down that list a bit. Early victory for either candidate hinders our chances in the General Election with either of them as nominee.

So yeah, what I've wanted all along is a contest and we have one. You on the other hand were touting Hillary's comfortable lead 5 weeks ago even as that lead was vaporizing swiftly down to the photo finish that it was.

[cascadiance]

115. Yep, if he were a Republican he would have been cheering a Romney "win" in last election...

After her DIDN'T win when votes were more thoroughly counted later and after Ron Paul delegates were voting who they wanted to in the state convention!

[LibDemAlways]

194. Dan, put down the kool aid. The

outcome was a razor thin virtual tie. Iowa, a conservative midwestern farm state that went for the likes of a whack job like Ted Cruz on the R side, was never going to be a lock for Bernie. What he accomplished against your corporate and party establishment backed right leaning candidate was pretty damn impressive. Half of the Iowa Democrats who came out to caucus rejected the status quo and voted for change. That's hardly a reason to gloat.

[DanTex]

200. Iowa Democrats are white and liberal, right up Bernie's alley.

[Flying Squirrel]

74. Don't say "stunning."

[stonecutter357]

85. wow!

[themonster]

13. NH

Bernie will win New Hampshire and Clinton will dominate the rest.

[cali]

14. Along with much of the media

Hill underperformed is the consensus

[DanTex]

19. ...

http://www.nytimes.com/2016/02/02/upshot/how-the-virtual-tie-in-iowa-helps-hillary-clinton.html

[cali]

26. Double your ellipses and raise you

http://www.vox.com/2016/2/2/10892802/iowa-caucus-bernie-sanders-tie
http://www.nytimes.com/2016/02/03/us/politics/democratic-race-iowa-clinton-campaign.html?_r=0http://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2016/feb/02/iowa-caucus-bernie-sanders-can-win-hillary-clinton-beatable
http://www.cnn.com/2016/02/02/politics/iowa-caucuses-democrats-2016/index.html
http://www.politico.com/story/2016/02/hillary-clinton-iowa-performance-218607
http://www.nytimes.com/2016/02/02/us/iowa-caucus-results.html
http://www.bloomberg.com/politics/articles/2016-02-02/iowa-results-slow-clinton-s-march-toward-the-nomination
http://nymag.com/daily/intelligencer/2016/02/iowa-bernie-sanders-won-his-partys-future.html
http://www.newyorker.com/news/john-cassidy/bernie-sanders-just-changed-the-democratic-party
https://www.washingtonpost.com/opinions/marco-rubio-and-bernie-sanders-were-the-real-winners-in-iowa/2016/02/02/470947a8-c978-11e5-a7b2-5a2f824b02c9_story.html

[DanTex]

27. Ahh, the old "pro-Clinton" media. Spinning a victory in an almost pure white state into a loss.

[cali]

44. Bwahaha.

You guys are in absurdity land.

[Cary]

78. Meanwhile, out of the other side of your moutb...

You are on record as knowing Hillary Clinton will win the nomination.

[cali]

83. Nothing two sides about that.

[Cary]

95. Nor anything defensive. ..

Maybe mealymouthed is a better term?

[R B Garr]

116. Plus that poster contradicts herself, saying in other

threads that media is biased pro-Hillary, which was impossible for Sanders to overcome. Then she whips out a load of anti-Hillary pieces and calls you absurd.

[thesquanderer]

76. In a sense... a tie for an underdog is a win. (n/t)

[tecelote]

15. Yup.

Iowa has not certified a winner in the Dem Primary caucus yet
http://www.democraticunderground.com/12511119109

A month or two ago you were saying he had no chance and now he is neck and neck and about to get some media coverage - finally.
So, hold your horses, looks like the unicorns and rainbows showed up after all.

The more exposure Bernie gets, the more he surges.

[w4rma]

16. Are we really going to have to put up with Hillary's supporters touting their 6 to 7 coin flips?(nt)

[Deny and Shred]

45. Yes, obviously.

Had the flips gone the other way, the margin of 'victory' would be the same for Bernie. You won't be hearing much of that though.

[SammyWinstonJack]

131. Apparently we are. nt

[LibDemAlways]

209. Sad that after all the speeches, all the time

and effort and money spent in Iowa by both candidates, it came down to flip or flop with Hillary winning the coin tosses. It could just as easily have gone the other way. This one ends in a virtual tie and rather than being humble about it and giving any sort of props to Bernie, Hillary supporters are smugly acting like it was a landslide. After Bernie wins New Hampshire next week, no matter what the margin is, expect them to contort the results into a Hillary victory.

[frylock]

255. It's what they do. Humility is a foreign concept to the Hillarian.

[vercetti2021]

18. Congrats!

She won by .35 percent when she was suppose to win by 3 - 5%. Oh and 6 coin tosses. So yeah...unbeatable? Don't think so.

[fishwax]

21. yesterday was an impressive showing for Bernie. He still has a very uphill battle.

Both of those things are pretty obviously true, in my book. Bernie supporters are right to look at it as a win, given the odds. But in the long run the nomination remains al ong shot. Possible, but with a lot of work remaining.

Our party went into the caucus with three good candidates. We emerge with two, and supporters of both have cause to feel good today.

[Gamecock Lefty]

22. Wonderful Night!!!

Since the opposition loves to talk 2008, let’s refresh. Hillary was third in Iowa in 2008; first in Iowa in 2016.

Bernie has been banking on winning both IA and NH and while last night was very close, he did not win. He had to won last night; Hillary did not, but she did.

Hillary just might have had her own vampire weekend in Iowa – sucking the life out of the Bernie campaign!!!

[SidDithers]

23. Bernie gets a "Good Job!" participant ribbon...nt

Sid

[Vinca]

24. That is about the slimmest razor thin win any candidate has ever had in Iowa.

When you resort to flipping coins, it's time to regard it as a tie.

[Gamecock Lefty]

25. Oh, one more thing . . .

Turns out we Hillary supporters are pretty damn passionate, too!!!

[morningfog]

28. I love it too! Hillary blew a 30 point lead and broke the bank

for a coin toss! Love it!

[DanTex]

30. I think we can resolve the whole infighting this way. Clinton wins in reality, Bernie wins in

virtual reality, and everyone goes home happy!

[morningfog]

33. Whatever you need to soothe yourself. On to NH!

On to Hillary's clear defeat there. There will be no squeaking.

[DanTex]

34. Looking forward to it. One more white state for Bernie, and then on to the rest of the country.

[Katashi_itto]

39. 13 mill spent for a .05% win. From a 30 point lead.

[Bonobo]

61. Ha! well said!

Say, how's your toe doing?

I have a rigid big toe too. Big pain, but karate is a lot easier on it than kendo! You picked the worst possible activity for a bad left big toe!

[alcibiades_mystery]

31. Best of both worlds

For DU...

[1StrongBlackMan]

190. I predicted that regardless of the outcome ...

DU would be full of posts with HRC supporters pointing to the demographics of the remaining states ... and Bernie supporters would be taking about "the comeback!!!"

But that wasn't so difficult to predict ... What I couldn't imagine is the number of people calling a win for HRC ACTUALLY was a loss.

[NastyRiffraff]

238. I coulda predicted this, 1SBM

"But that wasn't so difficult to predict ... What I couldn't imagine is the number of people calling a win for HRC ACTUALLY was a loss."

In fact, I did, last night (not online, and CERTAINLY not here on DU, which I avoided like the plague last night). As it got close last night, I said that Sanders supporters would declare victory. Not at all surprising!

[liberal N proud]

32. The Bernie propaganda machine at full throttle

[LexVegas]

35. The demographics of the first 2 states makes this their time to shine.

Once minorities enter the mix, he is done.

[w4rma]

36. Sister Souljah: Hillary reminds me of ‘the slave plantation’

http://thehill.com/blogs/ballot-box/presidential-races/260009-sister-souljah-hillary-reminds-me-of-the-slave-plantation

[leftynyc]

67. I'm sure that has nothing

to do with the smackdown she got from Bill Clinton in 1992. I'm sure she's gotten over that.

[w4rma]

106. Exactly. Sanders was one of only two white officeholders in the nation to endorse Jessie Jackson.

"The interesting thing is that Bernie was a Jackson supporter, and was one of the two white officeholders to risk their jobs across the color line, so Jim Hightower (the longtime Texas populist firebrand) and Bernie were the two that did that, and he helped us win the Vermont caucus in April of '88, which is actually when I met Bernie.
…
The disappearance of the Jackson campaigns from the history of modern progressive politics is not an accident. By 1992, when Bill Clinton teed up Sister Souljah as a direct slap at Jackson, who was sitting not 10 feet away on the dais, the exile became complete. The Jackson campaigns—and the populist forces that were their energy—became something from which serious Democratic politicians were obliged to distance themselves. Race was soft-pedaled and class simply was not mentioned at all.
http://www.esquire.com/news-politics/politics/news/a41691/bernie-sanders-iowa-progressive/

[leftynyc]

172. I'm glad Jackson got dissed

but then again, I come from Hymietown (what he so ungraciously called New York). Seems some kinds of bigotry gets a pass.

[w4rma]

278. You do realize that Sanders is Jewish, right? (nt)

[leftynyc]

279. Of course I realize it

What a ridiculous question which has nothing to do with what jackson said that you obviously think is no big deal. I think otherwise and will never forget it. His opinion means nothing to me, he means nothing to me other than feeling nothing but disdain when he opens his mouth. Let's also remember when he said (when he thought the cameras were off) that he wanted to cut off Pres Obama's (then candidate Obama) balls. Jackson is trash.

[w4rma]

280. That comment was definitely crude, rude and stupid, but it wasn't racist.

Last edited Thu Feb 4, 2016, 04:58 AM - Edit history (1)

The context of the quote was that he thought that Obama was "talking down to black people". I disagree with Jackson, but it shows a lack of racism.

The Clintons’ sordid race game: No one will say it, but the Clintons’ rise was premised on repudiating black voters
http://www.salon.com/2016/01/31/the_clintons_sordid_race_game_no_one_will_say_it_but_the_clintons_rise_was_premised_on_repudiating_black_voters/

[leftynyc]

281. You DO realize

that you're calling black people too.....what? Uninformed? Too what - that they have supported the Clinton's all these years while all the while some white people have decided they're racist? I don't give a shit what salon has to say. I look at all the African American's that have supported BOTH Clinton's all these years and have enough faith that they know what they're doing. You obviously don't.

[w4rma]

284. Don't go there. PEOPLE are uninformed. If you had your way, PEOPLE would stay uninformed. (nt)

[leftynyc]

285. I ABSOLUTELY WILL GO THERE

I'm sick and tired of people like you thinking you're the only ones who understand, that you're the only ones who see things the way they really are, that everyone is is stupid and uninformed. All you're doing is calling everyone who doesn't agree with you imbeciles. I'm glad we got that straightened out and thanks for being so open about your disdain regarding the MANY Democrats that don't agree with you.

[w4rma]

288. Your smears are disingenuous, leftynyc. I think that folks, here, are smart enough not to buy into

them, too. Maybe you are a political operative who has become so cynical that he believes that his shit doesn't stink and people will buy anything you feed them?

[leftynyc]

291. Spare me the bullshit

I'm just an average citizen who works for a living and would like to leave a world behind better than the one I'm in. That has nothing to do with that poster claiming to know better than everyone else what is pure, true and right. I would think you should be aiming your ire at the person who claims to speak for ALL democrats. That poster was claiming that people are just too stupid and uninformed (that's the word THEY used) to understand how their position is the true one. It's pathetic.

[leftynyc]

286. Go ahead and call all

these African American women stupid and unformed.

http://www.democraticunderground.com/10141336750

[w4rma]

289. You're the one doing that. Not I. (nt)

[leftynyc]

292. Everyone can see which

one of us called people uninformed. YOU did it in post 184, not me. Go ahead and tell everyone which post of mine called people uninformed. Go ahead and waste your time trying.

[w4rma]

293. You really are a cynical person on politics. Your views are what turns off independents.

And, unfortunately, your views seem to line up with the "New" Democrats who are currently running the Democratic Party into the ground. But, they are all going to retire well with their Wall Street golden parachutes, right?

[leftynyc]

294. I'm a REALISTIC

person on politics. Would you care to apologize for accusing me of something you yourself did (call people uninformed for not agreeing with you like you did in post 184)? I didn't call anyone uninformed and you know it and are now merely trying to distract from that charge you made.

[w4rma]

295. No. You're cynical and you twist the meanings of my words, in order to make it sound like I said

something other than what I said or focused on a group of people, other than what I did.

And that cynicism is a cancer on our politics.

[leftynyc]

296. More bullshit from you

Let's review. YOU called people who didn't agree with you uninformed in post 184. Then you try and deflect onto how I'm cynical about politics and how I'm the one who called people uninformed (making you a fucking liar) and I'm sure everyone is waiting to see you explain how calling everyone who doesn't agree with you uninformed (in capital letters no less) makes me a twister of words. This should be good for a laugh. A smarter person would either apologize or at least stop digging.

[Avalux]

37. I love it too! Bernie did win politically, and he's got the momentum.

To be able to go up against Hillary's establishment machine and do what he did last night was awe-inspiring! I know you're feeling the Bern this morning!

[DanTex]

38. I think it sets a good precedent. After Hillary gets the nomination, if Bernie fans can

delude themselves that Bernie was the true winner, it will go a long way towards unifying the party against the GOP.

[DebJ]

118. Well if that happens, I hope that at least there will be SOME impact permanently on

dragging Hillary kicking and screaming into supporting progressive policies without her having to follow the leadership
of Bernie Sanders. That pipeline thing will keep me blown away for forever...no sense to that at all. Cents, maybe,
but no sense.

[cyberswede]

40. every single person on earth knows HRC; SBS was virtually unknown & tied her

That's quite an accomplishment, actually.

49.9 to 49.6 is hardly worth calling a win.

[Bad Dog]

170. What difference does that make?

Nobody outside of America has heard of Martha Stewart, but she does alright for herself. (I've only heard of her because she appeared on an episode of The Simpsons.)

[cyberswede]

191. Name recognition means a lot in electoral politics.

Ask Martin O'Malley.

[Sunlei]

41. They both should be Congratulated. Even more today, I believe the two of them should team-up.

[DanTex]

43. They will team up eventually, the question is behind which candidate. And it's looking

like that candidate will be Hillary.

[Sunlei]

49. I'd like for them to team-up now & let primary voters decide who is VP/Pres.

Half our Party 'voters' like Senator Sanders and they're both good for America. Even better as a team vs republican party.

We can really see whats coming in the R party. Trump is popular online but he won't be as strong in reality, he will not bring in enough real votes.

Together as a team Mrs. Clinton & an experienced Senator Sanders can beat a Cruz/Rubio team. Each alone with only half our parties voter 'support' will be very difficult.

[DebJ]

120. No. We need Bernie in the Senate should he not win the nomination. n/t

[Sunlei]

202. I think Senator Sanders would make a great VP & keep Mrs. Clinton more connected to 'the people'

I agree with you, would miss Sanders as a Senator

[DemocratSinceBirth]

46. Iowa is homogeneous, rural, and sparsely populated.

It was Senator Sanders' wheelhouse.

[DanTex]

48. Of course. He had to win, and everyone knew that. Hence the spin.

[DemocratSinceBirth]

50. I will leave this question out there, for any fair person.

If one had to pick the most difficult state for Hillary to win this primary season outside of Vermont and New Hampshire, what state would one pick?

[Iggy Knorr]

47. DanTex Time!

[bowens43]

51. Definately a win for Bernie the hill people have been campigning there over a decade

and the best they could do is a tie????


ROFLMAO

[Logical]

52. Lol, you whine a lot. Nt

[My Good Babushka]

54. I think it will be good for the party

if it moves the party platform to the left, which is what the caucus is indicating people want. The closeness of the race tells me people don't want tax cuts to be the centerpiece of progressive legislation. They want real reform and the working class won't be relegated to an afterthought anymore.

[workinclasszero]

56. IKR?

Losing a caucus in a state full of white liberals proves that Bernie is a viable national GE candidate. LOL.

It PROVES Bernie would be a horrible national candidate but some people just want to replay McGovern style republican landslide because they hate life I guess?

[DoBotherMe]

96. Exactly

That nightmare continues to haunt me.

[DrDan]

59. I have a feeling we will be seeing a lot of that in the next few months, plus

miscounts, election fraud, disenfranchisement

anything but congratulations to the winner

[INdemo]

199. What will happen when Bernie clearly wins

NH? You Hillary fans are acting like the Bush fans of 2000 or 2004 By consistently saying Hillary is the winner but that doesn't make it so. Nothing is official yet.
Unless Hillary fans just don't want all the votes counted....a Karl Rove tactic for sure

[DrDan]

245. I will offer my congratulations . . . I have no problem acknowledging a win

[Tarc]

60. This is the sad narrative that is going forward

They really do not realize that Bernie is no Obama, who went into the Southern states riding high on the youth and the PoC vote. Sanders has the former only, and will sink in SC and beyond.

[INdemo]

256. We shall see. You and many like you didnt think he would make it to Iowa.

Hillary spent 13 million + in Iowa and her PACs and billionaire friends spent almost double that and Hillary came out with a tie?
A strong candidate you say?
I do expect her campaign will try more Karl Rove tactics but Bernie will win NH then NV and then back to SC will momentum galore !!

[Nanjeanne]

64. Hillary Wins Iowa - by 5 Coin Tosses

New campaign slogan.

But Bernie and his supporters are somehow supposed to sneak out in the dark like losers according to her supporters.

It's a victory for both. It's basically a tie. Why is it so important for Clinton's supporters to gloat about less than .5%, a couple of delegates won by a toss of a coin?

[jalan48]

65. Seven coin flips to determine a winner?

[MoonRiver]

66. Truth is that what the Bernie fans say here is irrelevant.

Hillary won! This is the first of many wins, which will lead her straight to the Democratic nomination!

[retrowire]

68. Aww you're clearly upset that your candidate couldn't legitimately take the win.

It's ok. We'll see you in New Hampshire, and do be sure to remind your candidate to not pull anymore tricks.

http://www.democraticunderground.com/12511119123

[DanTex]

72. So now the win's not "legitimate". LOL. Lemme guess, only Bernie wins are legitimate?

[retrowire]

73. XD Hey we got video. Just sayin'. nt

[DanTex]

81. You've always had the conspiracy theories.

[retrowire]

86. Bernie wins 21 delegates by skill.

Hillary gets 5 by luck.

XD

Conspiracy theories with video and proof.

[DanTex]

89. The excuses are delicious.

[retrowire]

94. Facts they are young padawan. It's okay to accept that.

gr8 b8 m8 2 l8

[R B Garr]

148. CAREFUL. that poster calls everyone desperate then alerts

on you that he's being harassed when you answer him. He did it to me the other day with this same pattern.

[rnk6670]

71. Do they coin toss for president?

Hilary went 6 for 6 in coin tosses last night to win. Yes, coin tosses.

http://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2016/feb/02/how-hillary-clinton-won-some-iowa-caucuses-with-a-coin-toss


How you equate that to 'victory' is odd. That she went 6 for 6 is improbable if not suspect. She's the huge powerful inevitable candidate. The little old Jew from Vermont shook up the establishment last night and he's just getting started.

[Reter]

80. She did not win

Take away those 6 ridiculous coin tosses and he won. He got more real votes.

[DanTex]

84. Love the excuses. Really do.

[SammyWinstonJack]

153. What excuses? Tie decided by coin toss?

It could have gone either way

[DanTex]

160. My car broke down! I couldn't make it to the caucus in time!

[mcar]

223. The coin tosses are part of the Iowa caucus rules

Silly, I agree, but them's the rules. It does not make HRC's victory any less real.

[frylock]

259. Nor does it make it any more decisive.

[earthside]

87. Today ... Iowa is a state where Sanders is heavily favored.

Pretty funny.

All we heard about for weeks around here was how virtually all the polls showed Hillary leading.
It was a done deal. She couldn't lose.

Well, for a former Sec. of State; former First Lady; former U.S. Senator; head of a multi-hundred-million dollar foundation; "most qualified candidate ever"; etc. --- she got clocked.

She tied with a 74 year old democratic socialist that probably 80 percent of Americans (and Iowans) didn't even know about six months ago.

This is more than some kind of moral victory for Sanders -- this is a win. The Democratic Party establishment got its hat handed to it.

[DanTex]

90. Moral victories, those are great. I look forward to Sanders winning many more of those.

[earthside]

108. A pyrrhic tie for Mrs. Clinton.

Anymore victories like this and Clinton is done for.

[JTFrog]

217. lol

Your OP was funny too.

[CajunBlazer]

92. K&R

[Stuckinthebush]

93. Let them have their moral victory

We all know that the math isn't with them.

Carry on and let's get Hillary the big win!

[BlueCaliDem]

97. They're denying it now.

A state heavily slanted towards Bernie demographically, where Bernie fans have been gleefully predicting victory for weeks, and somehow a loss turns into a win.

Seriously! I got TWO Berners already denying they ever predicted such a thing!
Where were all those tens of thousands (or has it grown to millions by now?) Millennials who'd carry Bernie to victory with ease? HE. LOST.

[blackspade]

98. Right on cue.....

"A state heavily slanted towards Bernie demographically.....Losing a caucus in a state full of white liberals"


Now that is funny, I thought the Clinton polling showed her blowing him out 53% to 42%?
Huh, interesting that the polling was off by that much.

So enjoy your pyrrhic .4% 'victory' based on a coin toss!

[MsMAC]

99. #BERNEDOUT

[ToxMarz]

103. LOL. All he needed to do was keep breathing.

And I do love Bernie, but it is funny.

[mcar]

104. K&R

[RoccoR5955]

119. I love it. No winner declared, and Clinton decides she has won.

Just like Turd Blossom!
Oh, and as of 8 AM EST, the state of Iowa has not declared a winner yet.

There are still a few votes to be counted.

We will find out this afternoon probably.

[Lil Missy]

121. Yep, I've been pointing that out for months now.

[Yupy]

123. Let's be honest: A toss coin in a democracy? That's far, far, far away for winning.

[karynnj]

124. It also says something that you can't enjoy the win, but want others to totally concede to your

version of the win. Bernie fans called it a virtual tie -- and -- in fact it is very very close. You point to the fact that she pulled off a very narrow win -- they are exuberant that a man who everyone - including many who supported him -- thought he would never get about say 20, 30 percent. fought Clinton to a finish where the winner could not be declared even at midnight. Both sides have their narratives on this.

I would suggest that you watch BOTH candidates' speeches. Both had the same info and both had cheering supporters -- look at the faces of Bernie and Jane Sanders and the Clintons. It is Bernie who looked happier than I have ever seen him -- his face was transformed with excitement and happiness. Look at especially Bill Clinton. We have all seen Bill lit up with joy at winning ... this was more somber. This tells me that the Clintons really did expect that the power of the party support, the number of funded offices that have been in Iowa for months, the mainstream media support and being two of the most famous people in the world to lead to a significant win over Bernie. There were reports that HRC junked the planned victory celebration with Bill and Chelsea speaking in addition to her. Then they left with no handshakes etc. What a contrast -- and this morning, I hear audio that Bernie arriving to cheers in NH say that they astonished the world. They did.

The fact is given the situation when he announced last May, Bernie has far exceeded expectations. Before you argue that declaring this a "victory", though no one is saying a "win" is unfair -- remember that Tsongus won NH in 1992 by about 8% -- and the media story was all about the (at first) self described "Comeback Kid" -- a label the media itself soon adopted.

As to rich, white, liberals -- the entrance poll demographics show they went to HRC ad did the older people.

[EdwardBernays]

129. Talking Points much?

Hillary spent 13,000,000 more than Bernie, got 5 extra delegates, lost her media dominance, lost the narrative that she's inevitable and lost many thousands of supporters...

So yeah. It was a lousy night for her.

Iowa wasn't winner take all. And taken as a whole she lost pretty much everything she had going for her, and 90% of the money her lobbyists friends gave her last summer.

It takes an awful lot of spin to make that look like a win.

[DanTex]

141. Yes, those sound like Bernie talking points. I'm not too interested in them.

[EdwardBernays]

150. They're not

That's just what's obvious.

What you said however is EXACTLY the spin reporters traveling with Clinton said that Team Hillary would be pushing today.

And sure enough all the Hillary posters - just like when they said Bernie wouldn't release his plans by a certain day, and just like them all demanding his health records - got their marching orders and started parroting the Team Hillary spin.

Cost benefit analysis says that Hillary lost pretty much everything last night.. And she won a handful of extra delegates.

But sure spin on...

[frylock]

260. Not interested in facts.

Stop the presses!

[AgingAmerican]

130. You will never get it

Ever

[DanTex]

139. Maybe not, but I am able to look at two numbers and see which one is bigger.

[Nanjeanne]

138. Yup. MISSION ACCOMPLISHED.

[roody]

140. It's called a tie, or as the Des Moines Register put it

"A dead heat."

[4dsc]

143. Hillary folks look like sore loser here

I've been hearing all this crap about how Bernie folk have predicted a huge victory but being in the campaign I never heard such a thing stated.

This is a huge victory for Bernie if you look back just 9 months ago when he started with nothing in the state while Hillary had already built a machine here.

[DanTex]

144. Yes, in Bernieland the winner is the loser and the loser is the winner. My point.

[demwing]

146. How about Rachel Maddow?

https://www.facebook.com/OccupyDemocrats/videos/1058674430892277/

[pinebox]

147. Hillary spin zone

in full effect.

Sorry but she was up 30 points.
Hillary is the most famous person in politics.
Your win was by a coin toss.
Hillary has 98% name recognition Bernie had 3%.

Sorry but this says it all http://mashable.com/2016/02/02/sanders-tie-with-clinton-in-iowa/#g6_hVFyhkqqZ

Next up NH and she is going to lose in a landslide there. Have you looked at Arkansas? You may want to

[DanTex]

149. Deranged! Simply because I can look at two numbers and tell which one is bigger!

[Glaisne]

152. Hilary may have "won"

but Bernie is the better candidate.

[Spitfire of ATJ]

156. The big story of the night was her declaring victory and skedaddling....

On edit: LOL!!!

Actually THIS is the big story of the night:

http://www.democraticunderground.com/1280108216

http://www.c-span.org/video/?c4578575/clinton-voter-fraud-polk-county-iowa-caucus

[cannondale]

158. But keep this in mind regarding NH

Hillary will not win, but coming close will be viewed (logically) as a win for her. The tie in Iowa is most certainly a "win" for Sanders, as all incredible come-from-behind ties are.

Harvard Beats Yale, 29-29

[markpkessinger]

162. And yet . . .

. . . isn't it telling that it was Hillary Clinton's campaign that was forced to evolve towards the positions advocated by Sanders, and that Sanders was able to come so close without having moved an inch?

[ellennelle]

163. um, come again?

first of all, given that iowa is NOT a winner take all delegates state, hillary cannot be declared a winner as if she has swept all the delegates, as it is in the GE.

fact is, she squeaked by with mere 1 - ONE - delegate more than bernie.

given where this started, not to mention how heavily the DNC thumb has been on the scales, this does indeed mark a major victory for the bernie side. there is just no other way to read this.

second, to put this in greater perspective, think about how the HRC camp is reviewing these results today. the pre-caucus polls were right; she LOST HYUUUUUGE numbers in support to bernie over the campaign months.

read it and weep; this was therefore a huge loss for her, and she will likely lose NH.

her camp today is very very nervous.

bernie's camp is very very energized.

that is victory.

[DanTex]

167. Yes, that's what I meant. Good stuff!

[ellennelle]

203. MOREOVER!!

watching amy goodman now, who points out - and this is KEY! -

SIX PRECINCTS WERE DETERMINED BY A COIN TOSS.
HILLARY WON ALL SIX COIN TOSSES!

had even just half of those coin tosses gone the other way,
BERNIE WOULD HAVE WON!

this is why the HRC camp would be well-advised to be more circumspect about this 'win'.

ESSENTIALLY, ALL HILLARY WON WAS A SET OF COIN TOSSES!!

[JTFrog]

221. Lol.

Breathe.

[randome]

231. "More circumspect"? You mean show proper deference to the man she's running against?

Jesus Christ, Sanders is saying he didn't even need Iowa now!! Where's his circumspection? His humility? His acknowledgment that he thought he'd do better?
[hr][font color="blue"][center]There is nothing you can't do if you put your mind to it.
Nothing.[/center][/font][hr]

[6chars]

164. basically a tied vote

hillary won the coin flip, so there's that.

[B Calm]

165. Hillary should take her coin toss odds to Vegas.

[amborin]

166. HRC did NOT win! barely eked out a tie; a humiliating defeat for her, no matter how you try to spin

[ucrdem]

169. She won by 4 delegates per latest AP count.

Hillary Clinton 699 49.9%
Bernie Sanders 695 49.6%
Martin O’Malley 8 0.6%
Uncommitted 0 0.0%
Other 0 0.0%

https://elections.npr.org/

[amborin]

235. due to a coin toss, at best! not most folks' view of a "win"

http://www.alternet.org/election-2016/did-clinton-camp-rig-iowa-vote

[HERVEPA]

171. Someone please change the record on his Victrola. It keeps playing the same record over and over.

[secondwind]

176. winning by .35% is hardly a 'win'

[LS_Editor]

178. It's Iowa... it's the first state... and Iowa has the predictive power of a chamber pot.

Leave it to Hillary fans to exaggerate Iowa's importance and assert it is all over for Bernie Sanders.

Despite the history, of course.

[INdemo]

181. How can Hillary be the winner with a

.2% lead with 90 precincts not reported ?

[JI7]

182. it was a tie. Hillary didn't win either

[INdemo]

213. Yes but Hillary fans are acting like they know something we don't l

Like G W knew in 2000 Really think about that Hillary fans .2 lead is not a lead
Hillary hasn't won anything until the official count is in

[Kentonio]

183. So Hillary's plan to spend 90% of her money knocking Bernie out early seems to have failed.

I guess she had better run really fast to move her campaign staff into the next states that she's basically abandoned up to this point.

[eqfan592]

185. You can't be serious...

Hillary wins 23 delegates, and Bernie wins 21, many of this being decided by a coin flip, and you're declaring this some kind of slam dunk victory for Hillary?

Dan, I've usually had a lot of respect for you, but you've squandered that with this nonsense.

[DanTex]

187. Who said anything about a "slam dunk". It was a close victory.

[Cryptoad]

210. Funny

Ole Bern predicted the Landslide Revolutionary Victory! oh how soon they forget

[ViseGrip]

189. Coin tosses to put you over? Hardly winning with people. It was close and for Sanders

who was ignored, raised all HIS OWN MONEY, who started at 2% against 63%, you can say you are such big winners Hillary people. Go ahead, if it makes you feel better. Coin tosses and PAC money. Threads like this, is the reason Hillary will lose in a general. Oh, and she lost more support in IA last night, the way she did the people in the end. There were many who gave over 5K and wanted to shake Bill's hand too at the rope line set up. They are angry and calling her a bad sport, when it was THEIR money!

Oh and TV is still talking about her going on TV and declaring a win, while votes were still be counted, and during the process, Sanders got ahead. How terrible of Hillary, and unprofessional. This is what is going to dog her going forward. When Hillary doesn't get what she wants, she gets angry. You could see that last night, and she disappointed many BIG donors.

Laugh at the Bernie people all you want. Look at the mountain they had to climb, with all of their own shit. They did it.

[DanTex]

192. With "people" huh? I guess the people that actually went out and caucused don't count?

[SoapBox]

193. The Annointed One didn't sweep to a win.

Period.

[ham_actor]

205. I guess victory just isn't what it used to be.

The Clinton campaign had the advantages of having an organization on the ground in Iowa for a year, financial resources, name recognition and endorsements. They were as much as 30 points ahead in the polls a few months ago. Given all that they managed to achieve a statistical tie and won 3 delegates by a coin toss. Seems to me that their definition of what constitutes a 'victory' has been somewhat downgraded. Probably not the right time to be popping the expensive champagne to celebrate. If they do insist on celebrating, perhaps a can of store brad ginger ale is a bit more appropriate though only if it gets a little flat from sitting open for a while.

[DanTex]

206. Strange that Bernie fans didn't say any of that until after he lost. The last week it's been all

about how Bernie was going to beat her. Hmm...

[redstateblues]

216. The Rovian overconfidence of BSS backfired.

It was like the old Rovian tactic of saying you were going to win over and over and over-the idea being that you could will it into existence

[Cryptoad]

212. They set the Bar a little higher for

women, u know!

[redstateblues]

211. Saying Bernie won is like saying the Patriots won

even though they got less points than the Broncos!

[comradebillyboy]

214. Oh my! You just stirred up a hornets nest.

The truth hurts. Hillary won, it was too close for comfort but a win is a win.

[Matariki]

218. You guys were actually nervous going into Iowa

How else to explain this ecstatic celebration of Ms. Frontrunner 'winning' by 3/10 of a percent, and due to a half dozen coin tosses at that?

[DanTex]

222. Not really. Hillary didn't need Iowa, Bernie did.

[Matariki]

228. Absolutely disagree. Hillary needed Iowa badly.

They both needed Iowa, and what they got was a tie. But for Clinton, it's a tie in a race where she was leading by many points just a month ago. She loses and claims to 'inevitability'.

It's going to be a long primary season.

[DanTex]

234. There aren't too many white-liberal states left, Bernie missed a big opportunity. He's got NH, VT,

maybe a couple others, but once the demographics start to resemble the rest of the nation, it doesn't look good for him.

[redstateblues]

220. I guess we can put the "History Repeating Itself" meme of BSS and the MSM

to bed. The media loves a horse race- they really jumped on the Bernie bandwagon once they thought it could be close.

[G_j]

226. six months ago, few in Iowa even knew who Sanders was.

[DanTex]

227. And then he ran for president. Tends to increase a person's visibility.

[randome]

242. And then they decided they preferred Clinton.

[hr][font color="blue"][center]There is nothing you can't do if you put your mind to it.
Nothing.[/center][/font][hr]

[markpkessinger]

265. Six tosses of a coin rejected Bernie, not necessarily the voters n/t

[mhatrw]

244. What I love is that Hillary's fixers, "awesome" ground game, and 24/7 corporate media stooges

could not swing this election to her any more than Bush beat Gore.

[frylock]

251. Hillary wins coin tosses. Hillarians call it a decisive win.

[Tarc]

257. And if Sanders had gone 7/7 on coin tosses...?

The DU would have been full of "Feel the Bern!" style posts from top to bottom.

A coin toss is how ties are broken, complaining about the rules just because you came out on the short side of em seems a bit like sour grapes.

[frylock]

263. Fucking coin tosses!

[Ferd Berfel]

262. Damn - Beat me to it! Strutting over a coin toss?!!

WTF?
A great decisive win?

[markpkessinger]

266. And isn't it telling. . . .

. . . that the angriest people on DU today seem to be Hillary's supporters? I mean, hey, their candidate won in a blow-out, right? I should think they'd be overjoyed today!

[frylock]

269. They're playing HARD to get some hides and possible PPRs under their belts today.

Too hard.

[Number23]

268. DU has been so damn surreal for so long it's hard to remember when the majority of folks here

actually did know what they were talking about.

The revisionism is the best part. Now Hillary had a "30 point lead" in Iowa when every other damn day in this forum there were half a dozen polls posted that clearly showed that this was going to be a very tight race. A poll was posted on the same day as the caucus that showed Sanders winning and it was one of many polls over the last 2-3 months that showed him doing so.

And it was imperative for Sanders to win this for just the reasons that you said, Iowa is one a not even a handful of states that were tailor made for a Sanders victory. He did well in Iowa but he was EXPECTED to do well. So the fact that he didn't close the deal does not bode well for his campaign at all.

[Hekate]

272. +1

[closeupready]

273. You're not unbiased, though. You've been supporting Hillary for AGES.

[Number23]

274. I'd ask you to back that up but then that'd give you the illusion that I cared

And who I'm "backing" doesn't disprove one single, solitary point I made.

I love stuff like this. And it's just a post down from Sanders supporters accusing Hillary supporters of being "the angry ones" even though she won. It's a classic case of projection that you -- and many, MANY others here -- have been shooting down all day. So thanks.

[closeupready]

275. I deal in reality-based truths, not the fictions Hillary's supporters cast about,

hoping to find something that sticks.

[Number23]

276. Then you would have seen the dozens of polls that showed this race tightening

And you would have understood that Iowa was one of the few states that should have been right up Sanders' alley. Even the polls that had Hillary winning Iowa only had her up by 3-4 percentage points in the last few weeks.

So if you deal in "reality based truths" (whatever that nothing of a statement is even supposed to mean) then you would have seen all of this and would feel no need to race around DU "accusing" people of supporting Clinton "forever" (as if that was just the worse thing in the world) and as if that in any way disproves anything that they've said. Right?

[closeupready]

277. I'm done here - I don't think you are a bad person, and actually,

I respect a lot of your views on issues. But my opinion stands, and if that means I'm 'racing around DU' accusing everyone and their kitchen sinks of wildly false things, then I guess you live in an odd world.

Peace to you.

[NurseJackie]

287. It's almost as if MA & PA KETTLE were counting the delegates.

Note to Jury: Oh, I kid! Come on... it's FUNNY!

[betsuni]

290. LOL