Please Stop, Clinton Supporters. You are embarrassing yourselves

[SheenaR]

This discussion thread was locked as off-topic by In_The_Wind (a host of the 2016 Postmortem forum).

Going around thumping your chest claiming victory today is truly pathetic. You won by 0.2% and by a single delegate. Yes those are facts.

But you all told us for weeks this would be the end of Bernie. After Iowa he was toast. Now you are covering your eyes and ears and are ignoring reality.

Yes, Sanders did not win Iowa. You hear that sound out in society? Out where people actually vote? You know, the not DU world? That sound is nobody giving a s*it about your win. You can post all you want today (and I'm sure we will see about 7 of them from our friend in Texas) and you can pretend like all of this was great news for your campaign. It wasn't.

We aren't going away. And by we, I am very clear that I refer to LIBERAL Democrats who seek reform of our government, our party and the very system that has failed us time and again.

Yours was a Pyrrhic Victory. It's got to hurt to spend almost all of your money in a state that you couldn't win a majority in. But it's a long fight. And you haven't seen anything yet.

[DanTex]

1. Are Sanders supporters who thump their chest celebrating Bernie's loss embarrassing themselves?

How does this whole theory of embarrassment work, it seems a bit strange to me.

[Iggy Knorr]

7. Does Not Understand Embarrassment

Thank you, this explains much, Dan!

[DanTex]

9. Snappy!

[Hortensis]

98. Here's a disgusting Hillary example, DanTex.

If you don't feel intense shame at this, you're hopeless and I wash my hands of you.

A plan to raise American incomes

Hillary will:

* Give working families a raise with tax relief that helps them manage rising costs.
* Create good-paying jobs and get pay rising by investing in infrastructure, clean energy, and scientific and medical research to strengthen our economy and growth.
* Close corporate tax loopholes and make the most fortunate pay their fair share.
* Make college affordable and refinance student debt.

Hillary believes the defining economic challenge of our time is raising incomes for hardworking Americans.

[DanTex]

99. Raising American incomes, huh? For shame!

[SheenaR]

27. I am not thumping my chest

1. It would hurt.

2. I'm very pleased with where we are at. But hardly exclaiming victory or being boastful.

3. One campaign has a staff in every Super Tuesday state and has for some time. One campaign is raising money (from individuals) at a record clip. Hint: Neither is yours. That is why we are excited.

Heck, I'm ready to see Bernie replicate his Austin rally all across your fine state!

[DanTex]

29. Well, neither are any Hillary fans. Not sure what the point of the OP is.

I'm glad you're excited about how much money Bernie is raising. It is all about the money, isn't it?

[SheenaR]

32. Lol

You are so predicatble Deflect deflect deflect!!

Go check the threads. MANY Hillary supporters doing what you claim they aren't doing.

I'm not doing a typical 30 comment exchange in this thread that I see frequently from you. We disagree. Our beliefs have equal value, that's what's great about America.

[DanTex]

37. To be clear. Hillary supporters celebrating the victory are "chest thumping". Bernie supporters

celebrating the loss are not "chest thumping". Did I get that right?

[mythology]

74. That's correct

Of course it's not intellectually consistent, but you are understanding what they are saying.

[ismnotwasm]

36. I'm actually a bit surprised we took Iowa

My stomach was in knots until it was a victory--while I admit to wishful thinking to get the primaries out if the way asap so we can go on and fight republicans, I'm hardly "chest thumping" -pleasantly surprised is more like it.

[Blanks]

106. As long as we are only thumping our own chests...

I'm not sure what the big deal is.

If we were thumping their chests, they'd have every right to be upset.

[Dustlawyer]

109. Me too! Not all of us Texans believe the same as Dan!

[Number23]

31. "celebrating Bernie's loss"

You made a mean and completely unnecessary OP worth the click.

[lastone]

57. DanTex

You miss the point. Sanders was not anticipated to win by - well really anyone, so in coming in a distance second (.02% -- 1 freaking delegate, see what I did there - that's irony!) is a YUGE WIN, whereas HRC was anticipating a resounding victory which happened which such overwhelming assurance that she claimed victory with 83% of the totals yet to report!

Strange indeed eh?

[DanTex]

62. Funny I seem to recall a lot of Bernie fans anticipating his win right here on DU.

After all, it is a state full of white liberals, except for VT and NH, it's hard to think of a more Bernie-friendly state than Iowa, so I get why they were so optimistic.

It's a little odd for them to be celebrating the loss so vigorously, though. But the good news is, when Hillary finally secures the nomination, I imagine Bernie fans will be celebrating even harder.

[lastone]

75. you miss the point again!

no offense here but is this your MO? I would like to debate you on this but I don't think you play - you just state your side and go on - am I mistaken here or do you plan on actually conversing?

[DanTex]

79. Your point was "Sanders was not anticipated to win". This is obviously false, since on DU, Bernie

fans were predicting his victory left and right. Maybe other people didn't anticipate Sanders' victory (and those other people were right), but Bernie fans on DU certainly did.

[lastone]

108. I'll concede that in the DU bubble...

but my point and the OVERALL point is that no one other than Bernie supporters had him winning in Iowa, ie the DNC, media, et al. And the chest thumping by HRC supporters is anemic at best and pathetic at worst really with the SLIM margin she skidded by with and to also need the help of some conveniently friendly coin flips makes the chest thumping even more desperate and contemptible...

[mcar]

76. I recall the same thing DanTex

[Perogie]

71. some things about Bernie's loss

1. He was given little or no chance to win by almost every pundit including Nate Silver
2. The loss is based on 7 coin tosses that HRC won six. Had 2-3 of those flips gone for Bernie he would have won
3. Bernie showed he can motivate young voters. Something the Dems have been failing on for some time.

So yes I will thump my chest in this loss because Bernie did more than Hillary did with less time and big money backers.

Imagine that.
Turned out more young voters.
Would have taken Iowa if a couple coin flips went his way
Did it all with little contributions from little people not corporations or billionaires.

[DanTex]

77. Wrong on every count.

1) Pundits said it would be close, and it was. Most predicted a Hillary win, and she did win. Most also predict she will be the nominee, so I look forward to your chest thumping when she secures the nomination.

2) The coin toss claim is another falsehood that has bubbled up from the Bernienets.
http://www.democraticunderground.com/12511123143

3) We already knew Bernie had an edge with young voters. I can't imagine that Bernie fans didn't know this also, it was common knowledge. What Iowa did show is that even in a state where the demographic deck was fully stacked in Bernie's favor, he still came up short.

[Perogie]

92. ok DanTex whatever you say must be right

[ChisolmTrailDem]

2. Off to the Greatest Page, in record time. nt

[stonecutter357]

3. no i will not..

[forest444]

4. Hillary will be forever be known as Lady Landslide.

0.2-0.3% margin, and by way of a few coin tosses!?! They brought it on themselves.

[ChisolmTrailDem]

10. I know, she DESTROYED Bernie last night! nt

[forest444]

15. And if she liked last night,

she'll just love next Tuesday!

[rtracey]

44. and then what

[kenfrequed]

20. Landslide of coinflips?

Game of Pogs?

What would people want to call this sort of a "landslide?"

[Ivan Kaputski]

49. ^^^+^^^ Democracy at the flip of a coin.

6 coin flips ...all in Hillary's favor. What are the chances of that?

[forest444]

56. "Hello, Coach Belichick? Hi, this is Hillary Clinton!"

"Say, you wouldn't happen to have any spare change lying around would you?"

[LondonReign2]

105. 1 in 64

[Punkingal]

5. Ahem...it was actually .2.

Great OP.

[Vinca]

6. We'll have to make a point of being doubly obnoxious when Bernie wins next Tuesday.

[Bobbie Jo]

18. Is that even possible?

[LibDemAlways]

34. It would be tough to beat the arrogance and smugness

being displayed by the Hillary side in what amounts to a razor thin "win." I predict we will show considerably more class and restraint when Bernie takes New Hampshire by a significantly wider margin next week by congratulating him on a job well done and looking forward to the next round.

[nxylas]

40. Please don't

I assume you were joking, but I'd rather leave that sort of thing to HRH's hangers-on.

[phleshdef]

8. Bernie barely losing is a bigger win for him than Hillary barely winning.

Thats just how the politics of it plays out.

[GreatGazoo]

24. +1

[MuseRider]

38. Yes,

think of the "optics" of this.

I love using this against the other side. Just a tiny bit of ha ha.

[Beartracks]

42. Thanks, I was trying to think of a way to say the same thing.

Cuz it's true.

===============

[Ivan Kaputski]

54. +2

[jham123]

11. I agree

akin to:

Denver Broncos celebrate a TIE with Central High School Varsity football team.

Bernie isn't a Varsity Football team, but to hear the rest of the Dems, you'd think he was a Junior High football team....that is until last night.

First Quarter of the actual Superbowl of politics just ended tied in knots.

[DavidDvorkin]

12. This is a serious loss for Sanders

I say that as a disappointed O'Malley supporter.

[SheenaR]

17. I'm all ears

Please tell me how... We have the money and the organization.

And I am sorry about Martin. Gotta think he is a big part of the future of the liberal wing of the party. I hope he aligns with Sanders is some way. Because I think given the chance, the under 35 crowd really would be drawn to him.

[ChisolmTrailDem]

19. Also, he deserves a nice job in a Sanders (or Clinton) administration. nt

[onehandle]

13. The 'Not Hillary' Party is going away in one month.

Super Tuesday = Bye-Bye

[img][/img]

[SheenaR]

22. Yeah I heard that one before

It was Plan B excuse in the event the first four didn't go to script.

If you think Bernie will bow out you really don't know what we are about and are fighting for.

[JonLeibowitz]

25. To DU maybe, at least until November. we'll still be around in reality to back true progressives

[Matariki]

26. bookmarking this post to laugh at it later

[Bobbie Jo]

55. Bookmarking this one for the same reason.

[retrowire]

86. Bookmarking this one too

so that I can...

wait a minute, I have a life.

[Bobbie Jo]

96. That's nice?

Please do get on with it then...

[frylock]

41. See you on 3/2!

[dana_b]

46. THIS is exactly what the OP is talking about

audacious, braggadocious, discounts others - you don't even have the decency to call it the Sanders campaign. You are hurting your candidate more than helping.

[onehandle]

52. That assumes that DU has anything to do with the real world.

It does not.

[lastone]

68. your dreaming

[stonecutter357]

14. if i have any dignity i would be embarrassed.

[nolabels]

16. Could i help with a couple of words ?

WE have not seen nothing yet.

btw. don't worry about those boisterous ones, they mostly fade in the wash anyway

Go positive and go Bernie

[Matariki]

21. They are super nervous

which explains the chest thumping. They almost lost what they were hoping (and bragging) was going to be a decisive win to support their narrative.

[artyteacher]

23. it was was a big win...

She prevented his momentum.

[Matariki]

28. Well, her good friend Andrea Mitchell had some things to say about her momentum

[SheilaT]

30. I know. To go from

Bernie Who? to winning by six coin tosses is huge.

And to go from being ahead by 70 points or so, to winning by the grace of some coin tosses is an even more huge come-down. Can't imagine why they're celebrating as if she won by those earlier vast margins.

[frylock]

33. But somebody here said that Bernie would win Iowa, so that negates the months..

of polling and reporting and opinion coming from the punditocracy we've seen around here touting Hillary's inevitability. Also, white people, white people, white people, and white people. And don't forget white people.

[MrWendel]

35. If we were looking....

to embarrass ourselves, we would write this thread.

[SheenaR]

45. Cool n/t

[NCTraveler]

39. Clinton won a tight race in Iowa.

Say what you want about me as a Clinton supporter but I'm as excited as could be. This is the thousandth attempt to try to take the good feeling associated with a win away from supporters.

[Adrahil]

43. Butt hurt....

But hurt everywhere!!!

[SheenaR]

48. I don't think that applies

I am not even upset. This is a good day in my neck of the woods. Just trying to spare the rest of you.

[SammyWinstonJack]

47. Thank you.

[pnwmom]

50. LOL. If Bernie had won by a single vote, you'd be doing exactly what you're

criticizing Hillary's supporters for.

[SheenaR]

59. I'm sorry but no

I even mentioned this last night, hours before it got extra close

http://www.democraticunderground.com/12511113658

We aren't really taken seriously, but this is a 50 state game for us.

[Nanjeanne]

72. No I wouldn't be doing the same thing

I would say I'm glad Bernie did so well - and be extremely pleased and happy. But I wouldn't ignore the fact that its pretty much a tie. I'm sure I would preface any talk of "winner" with the fact that being called a "winner" would be beneficial to Sanders in people's perception. But that it shows how competitive this race could be.

So please don't speak for me - I'm sure I'm not unlike a lot of Sanders' supporters.

And . . . from the last look I saw after the last district came through for Bernie - I believe the 44 Iowa caucus votes will be split 22 to 22.

[pnwmom]

80. The delegate count will be 23 vs. 21, not including super delegates.

Based on these results, Mrs. Clinton is set to receive 23 of Iowa’s delegates and Mr. Sanders will earn 21 delegates. There are 4,763 delegates to the Democratic National Convention, so it will require 2,382 delegates to win the nomination.

http://www.nytimes.com/2016/02/03/us/politics/hillary-clinton-declared-winner-of-iowa-caucuses.html?_r=0

[Javaman]

51. Berning came within .2% with the peoples money not corporations.

Hillary doesn't have the base that Bernie has, she only has superpacs and corporations.

call me crazy but they don't represent us.

Bernie is going to win this and I think that this possibility is starting to dawn on the Clintons and their supporters

on the current trend, Bernie stands to easily surpass Clinton soon and maintain that lead.

[liberal_at_heart]

91. There are so many memes being put to bed with this caucus. The one where you have to have a

SuperPac is yet another one.

[FairWinds]

53. I Protested to the Admins the "Probably going to change my vote" post by Gaspee . .

This is what I wrote . .

"This thread is for HRC worshipers only (I am blocked), but it is not labeled as such. That is deceptive. And it casts doubt on people's honesty in stating, " I won't believe people who say they were anti Iraq war if they don't prove it . ." In fact, I CAN prove I was against the 2003 War, but this thread will not allow me to do so."

This article was published before the war in several small US papers, but people like Hilary & the war machine prevented it from being published more widely. So I published it in New Zealand's largest newspaper.

Ms. Clinton should have known that the war war based on a series blatant, totally implausible lies.

http://www.nzherald.co.nz/nz/news/article.cfm?c_id=1&objectid=3350402

[Erich Bloodaxe BSN]

64. I think it's in the HRC 'group' forum.

That means it's automatically only for Hillary supporters, even if nothing inside the OP points that out again. It's sort of like emails from foreign officials automatically being top secret even though they aren't 'labeled so at the time'.

[BlueStateLib]

83. If it was a vote for war

Why was Iraq invaded by Hans Blix and the U.N. Weapons Inspectors. Only one person voted no to war and that was Rep Barbara Lee

Steve Leser: "There is so much revisionist history pushed regarding that vote that I bet most folks don’t even know they are engaging in revisionism."

The Iraq War Resolution vote, like UN Security CouncilResolution 1441 that occurred within a few weeks of each other were efforts to pressure Iraq to allow UN Weapons Inspectors back into the country. Allowing UN Weapons Inspectors into the country for a continuous inspection regime was part of a deal that Iraq struck in order for a cease fire to be put into effect at the end of the first Gulf War in 1991. This deal was enshrined in several UN Security Council Resolutions and were imposed on Iraq because Iraq had engaged in an unprovoked war of aggression against Kuwait and attempted to annex that small country.

In case anyone is unaware, engaging in an unprovoked war of aggression is a war crime.

So the Iraq War Resolution and UN Security Council 1441 were part of enforcing international law against a dictator and country that had engaged in a serious war crime.
http://steveleser.blogspot.com/2015/10/will-bernie-sanders-demagogue-hillary.html

[KittyWampus]

58. What's the count after SUPER-delegates? That's how the system works.

[SheenaR]

69. I'll let you know at the convention

since they can change their pledging going forward

[1StrongBlackMan]

60. More embarassing than running around saying a loss is REALLY a win? eom.

[senz]

61. If they really thought they'd won

they would show a modicum of graciousness.

They know this tiny sliver of "win" is a loss for their once-inevitable candidate.

They know it.

[8 track mind]

63. I am drowning my sorrows of his "loss"

by making a donation to his campaign.

That's odd, i feel better now. Hmmmmm....

[amborin]

65. Bernie's Iowa outcome toppled Hillary as presumed nominee; the contest is now up for grabs; may

Bernie triumph!

[Purveyor]

66. I expected them to act just this way. They are "Clinton" supporters after all..

[Yupy]

67. Yeah, .02% plus "tossing coins 6/6 on her favor? give me a break... not cool at all...

[SheenaR]

70. Watching Bernie Live on Yahoo streaming right now n/t

[asjr]

73. A newbe with 186 posts knocking Hillary supporters

the way you have is laughable. Hillary supporters have never kicked Bernie around the way you have Hillary. Most of us here will be happy to vote for Sanders if he gets the presidency. A Democrat is the one we want. Hillary or Bernard Sanders either would get our votes. We need a Democrat in order to have a decent country. Why don't you criticize Cruze, Bush, Rubio, Christie, Trump if you enjoy making fun of the contenders.

[SheenaR]

81. I'm a newbie here

Not a newbie to the game. I worked extensively on the 2008 Edwards campaign. I'm not some girl off the street who just joined the Party.

My number of posts has nothing to with the accuracy of my OP.

Speak for yourself. Many Hillary supporters have been pushing the David Brock attacks for weeks.

Lastly, all of those Republicans are hideous. But Hillary Clinton would have a tough time defeating Rubio. And that is our most likely foe. Forget the Trump nonsense.

[treestar]

78. this post doesn't help Bernie

It seems you are more into the war of supporters vs. supporters than anything else. This OP was totally unneeded and no help to Bernie.

[SheenaR]

84. I'm trying to help you all with this OP

Not help Bernie. But thank you for your concern

Respectfully

Sheena

[treestar]

90. You're focused on us all

and not doing a thing to get Bernie any more votes.

Just divisive spinning and flame baiting.

[SheenaR]

95. Tell that to the donations I made last night

and this morning.

I am willing to be I am not alone

[beachbumbob]

82. I kind of chuckling.....

Illinois Bernie will lose to hillary by double digits...same in New York...in California...in Florida in Texas....I'm sorry but that will be the reality

[SheenaR]

85. Well that does it

On behalf of all Sanders supporters,

we quit. Thanks for saving us the trouble.

[saltpoint]

87. This piece is instrucdtive, IMO:

http://www.politico.com/story/2016/02/hillary-clinton-iowa-performance-218607

-- though it comes from one of my least favorite sources, the writer's analysis is useful.

[DonCoquixote]

88. It is funny how many H supporters

bellow about how DU is not the real world. Yet here, in thsi echo chamber, 1 vote is suddenly an ocean of victory.

[PatrynXX]

89. yeah they aren't helping

totally insane angry group of people angry at the wrong people. and they are doing is Bush Jr style. 6 coin tosses all went Clinton? Something smells of Nov-Dec 2000 and that ain't right. Who do I blame. 3 initials DWS. In effect they cheated. Mom can't remember Caucuses doing Coin Tosses. Not entirely sure if there's a rule against that or not. and 8 SED's are still out there that coud in theory switch to Bernie Switching the win in March. In theory it can happen just like it does locally.

[emulatorloo]

102. Coin tosses clarified:

http://www.democraticunderground.com/12511123143

[Gothmog]

93. Iowa was a must win for Sanders

Sanders is only polling well in four states where the voting population is 90+% and if Sanders can not win in Iowa then he is in trouble in South Carolina and the Super Tuesday states http://www.slate.com/blogs/the_slatest/2016/02/01/iowa_caucus_stakes_for_hillary_clinton_and_bernie_sanders.html

For Bernie, meanwhile, a Hillary victory would be an undeniable blow. With the exception of New Hampshire and his home state of Vermont, the Hawkeye State—with a Democratic electorate that skews white and liberal—represents the friendliest terrain on the map for Sanders. If Bernie can’t win in Iowa, Clinton and her allies will have no problem brushing off a Sanders win in New Hampshire next week as little more than the result of the senator being a near-native son in the Granite State. Sanders, then, would be in need of a win elsewhere to reset the race—and soon—but won’t have any obvious place to turn.

South Carolina and Super Tuesday will be fun

[SoapBox]

94. And how many total delegates will each have after New Hampshire?

I will tells ya...Bernie will have the most.

On to New Hampshire!

[riversedge]

97. More lecturing from a Sanders fan. Not surprise

For the 1st TIME in US History a woman- wins Iowa Caucus! The Force was with Hillary--->V-I-C-T-O-R-Y …

[SheenaR]

104. As a woman

I could not give less of a crap about that. Are we going to do this for every state she wins that she couldn't win in 2008?

Let's hear it for the first 74 year old Jewish man to get 49% of the Iowan vote! Cheers!

[riversedge]

111. The first time caucus win for 2016 is special IMHO. I imagine each time Sanders has a win , this

board will be hopping with glee.

[leftynyc]

100. And I think it's

the Bernie supporters declaring victory that are making asses of themselves. To each his/her own.

[SheenaR]

110. That's nice

Did I declare victory here?

Or here? This was last night at 9:30 EST. I must be a soothsayer

http://www.democraticunderground.com/12511113658

If it's 51-49, either way (HRC or Bernie) I think that neither campaign can come out and be chest thumping. I think it will be a wash and the next three will be more telling.

For those who don't read entire posts. I'm saying even if Bernie pulls it out, I think it doesn't do a lot. If this were boxing,
I think it's a draw. And on to the sequels.

Ok

[youceyec]

101. edwards

thumped his chest in 08 over his 0.2% victory over Clinton. All this double standard in Clinton hate by media and regular folks is hidden sexism.

[SheenaR]

107. I worked for Edwards

He is a piece of dirt. It was wrong then and wrong now. And as a woman, I don't see how I am being sexist.

[LondonReign2]

103. I've never known Republicans to be embarrassed. Hillary supporters seem to be the same

[In_The_Wind]

112. Locking

Statement of Purpose

A forum for general discussion of the Democratic presidential primaries.

Disruptive meta-discussion is forbidden.

[img][/img]