So, how does Hillary win the GE with no help from the youth or Indys?

[Dawgs]

[BillZBubb]

1. Her only hope is that the repugs nominate someone odious like Cruz.

If that happens, she's got a good chance to win. Otherwise, the Democrats start the campaign behind in the polls and in an uphill (no pun intended) fight.

[Dawgs]

3. Why? Do you really think the Republicans (and many Indys) won't go out to vote for Cruz, or...

against Hillary?

[one_voice]

4. God no.

he's repugnant.

[Dawgs]

39. That's how Republicans see Hillary.

They may not like Cruz but if it means keeping Hillary out of the WH, they will gladly vote for him.

[one_voice]

43. That's how the Republicans see Cruz too...

they don't like him. They're going to push Rubio, that's who they want.

[Dawgs]

44. Doesn't matter how the Republicans see Cruz.

They will happily vote for a pile of shit over Hillary. Only a fool would deny that.

[BillZBubb]

13. I would expect virtually every republican to vote for cruz. Plus a lot of independents.

But MOST independents would vote for the Democratic nominee, even if its Hillary, to stop cruz. For the same reason, the Democratic base would turn out strong.

[Le Taz Hot]

34. I wouldn't bet on that.

Hillary is odious to most independents. They don't necessarily like the Republicans but there's other parties from which to choose. And you think the Democratic Base will turn out strong for Hillary? No, the Yellow Dog Democrats will. The base? You mean the ones who are feet-on-the-ground currently working for Bernie? The ones who have been insulted time and again by Turd Wayers like Hillary? You REALLY think they're going to cozy up to Ms. Goldman Sachs after all that? Yeah, you guys keep thinking that.

[Dawgs]

41. Most independents don't like Hillary. Like the youth, they will stay home.

The Republicans will happily vote for Cruz if it means keeping Hillary out of the WH.

[Bjornsdotter]

52. Not sure about that...

My Republican friends will not vote Cruz, Trump, or Hillary. They have already said they will stay home or only vote down ticket.

Mr Bjornsdotter is Independent and is supporting Bernie. If Bernie is not the nominee, then he will vote for Jill Stein.

Honestly, it's too soon to tell what people will really do as so often they say one thing now and it can all change.

[PFunk1]

57. I know a lot of dems who wont vote for her BUT will vote down ticket.

Either that or stay home.

[KingCharlemagne]

64. Is Stein running this cycle? She's very sharp. - nt

[Bjornsdotter]

65. She is running n/t

[Ken Burch]

81. She'll pretty much keep running until she eventually dies. n/t.

[Autumn]

72. You really think MOST Independents would be motivated to vote for Hillary just to stop a republican?

They won't.

[Puglover]

78. Yep. Not gonna happen.

Hope folks are ready for President Rubio. But never fear dear Autumn. It'll be all our fault.

[Autumn]

80. We have broad shoulders so we can take it.

[emulatorloo]

21. Anecdotal, but my Republican neighbors voted Obama in 08 and 12

08 because of Palin
12 because of R crazyness on women's issues (remember "legitimate rape" for example?)

These are not Cruz voters.

[valerief]

29. Not in the big population centers, the coastal cities. They're not bible-thumped

like in the nation's interior. His jesusing won't appeal to them. His presence certainly won't appeal to them. In fact, his overall creepiness will repel them.

Granted, non-rich GOP voter are stupid, but they're not quite that stupid.

[BigGLiberal]

2. She will have plenty of left leaning indys and have you read the latest reports?

About 90% of bernie supporters say they will vote for Hillary if she is the nominee. Only on DU will you find those who won't She won't need those votes to win.

[thereismore]

6. Dude, math. 10% do not come just from DU. 10% is a big number. Big. nt

[cali]

7. No, I'm afraid you are wrong.

Many young voters simply won't vote. It is not just DU.

[bettyellen]

28. Sad that millennials would marginalize themselves that way.....

politics isn't about getting all the marbles or staying home. and then they'll vote when they are old, and the youth at that point will criticize them. Shit.

[Ed Suspicious]

33. Well, they don't answer to you, and they don't always chose the most strategic path. All I know is

they are keyed up for Bernie in a big way. I guess it's up to Hillary to win their hearts and minds if Bernie comes up short. Given what they are expressing right now via their historic levels of participation, good luck with that.

[bettyellen]

73. Of course they don't. But I hope they have the sense to realize that staying home is bullshit.

That midterms fucking matter. Makes me crazy that they can't do the math.

[cali]

37. I agree, but Hillary seems to be working to turn them off.

[bettyellen]

75. In real life, I am not seeing that. Not voting is stupid, if you expect representation.

[JPnoodleman]

70. We are marginalized either way. /nt

[bettyellen]

74. ?

[LuvLoogie]

76. +1

[VulgarPoet]

82. Simple.

Hell, let's even use this election as our whiteboard, shall we? We come out in support of the candidate who we honestly believe in, after years of paying attention to the world and becoming cynical and bitter. And in a lot of our cases, that cynicism has taken a backseat to earnest belief. We get marginalized for "wanting rainbows and unicorns" rather than being taken at face value for once because "they're young and idealistic and won't lay down in front of the machine".

We don't come out or vote down-ticket, and we're demonized and marginalized yet again, this time justified as "oh they just don't care". Damned if you do, damned if you don't-- but we're not about to vote for someone who gives us more of the same.

[bettyellen]

84. It really seems foolish to not know that change takes sustained effort. Sorry- but being energized

for one or two people for a period of less than a year means jack shit if you're just going to give up.
No one is going to take you seriously as a block if you don't vote more than once. Same shit happened with Obama at the midterms.

[VulgarPoet]

88. Preaching to the choir.

My first election was Obama's 2012 run.

[Avalux]

9. Will you vote for Bernie when he becomes the nominee? n/t

[liberal_at_heart]

10. Millennial and Indys are not party loyalists.

More and more people are identifying as Independents and Millennials are certainly not loyal to establishment politics. I am a Bernie supporter and and Independent, and I will not say who I will be voting for in the GE because I don't wish to get kicked off DU. Hillary may get the benefits of the last vestiges of a dying era but things are changing.

[Dawgs]

12. It's not about Bernie supporters, it's about Indys and others that will not vote in the GE.

Please show me where I'm wrong, because she absolutely will need them.

[liberal_at_heart]

23. Because many people have been kicked off DU for saying they wouldn't vote for Hillary in the GE,

they think those people don't exist anymore. Oh, but they do.

[stopbush]

51. Read DU's ToS. If you openly say you won't support a D candidate, you're not welcome here.

That's a basic rule of this site.

[liberal_at_heart]

60. That is true. It does not mean people will vote for Hillary though just because they are not

on this site. You can kick people off of a message board. You cannot put a gun to their head and make them vote for anybody.

[stonecutter357]

5. the same way she won Iowa.

[cali]

14. That is a nightmare for us.

How does she win in Iowa when you look at how much larger repuke turnout was over democratic turnout? That, of course, holds true of Bernie too. And what about FL if Rubio is their nominee?

Her win in Iowa is hardly a win and hardly encouraging.

[Dawgs]

15. Uh, you realize that's not the same thing, right? n/t

[BillZBubb]

16. There are no coin flips in a presidential election.

[stonecutter357]

26. .

http://www.democraticunderground.com/12511123143

[msongs]

8. nice to know that indys and youth will not vote for hillary. bernie's rules? nt

[Dawgs]

19. Nothing to do with Bernie. It's ALL ABOUT Hillary.

If I'm wrong, please show me. What poll shows Hillary doing well with the young and Indys?

[cali]

40. Not even a little. Hillary's failure.

[Quixote1818]

11. Well, if they are far left they are not going to vote far right.

and I support Sanders over Hillary. Hillary is in a pretty good positon to win the General.

[Dawgs]

31. Sorry, but no she's not.

She has high disapprovals.

She doesn't create enthusiasm among the youth.

She has almost no support from Indys.

ALL of the Republicans will get out to vote against her.

Half of the party wants someone else as the nominee.

Like 2010 and 2014, many people will stay home.

The Republicans will get behind whoever the candidate is that's running against Hillary...including Trump and Cruz.

She has a slight chance of winning, but that's the best I can do. Saying she's in a pretty good position is just foolish. Sorry.

[Ed Suspicious]

42. They are not far left. They like what Bernie is offering and that is a combination of policies that

enjoy widespread popular support and a sense that those policies are being pushed by a no nonsense, trustworthy, honest candidate in Bernie. Hillary is no Bernie on that latter score. She's going to have her work cut out for her to turn out this demographic if she is the nominee.

[Doctor_J]

58. They also won't vote center right, which is what Hillary is

Her ideology is much closer to JEB! than to Sanders, and I don't really see them getting excited to vote for a candidate like that.

[basselope]

17. Her best (only) shot at the presidency is Cruz as the GOP candidate.

[Dawgs]

25. Why would you say that?

Republicans, like Democrats in 2008, are desperate to win back the WH. And, especially if it means keeping Hillary out of it. It won't be pretty.

[basselope]

94. Because...

If you look at the republican field the only one who is pretty universally disliked and dis-likable is Cruz.. so he is the only one who would likely lead to low GOP turnout.

Clinton guarantees low Democratic turnout, so her only shot is a republican candidate who equally depresses the republican turnout enough to make up for it.

[JaneyVee]

18. She'll get the youth and peel off Repub women.

Check the polls.

[Dawgs]

22. No.

Young people have no interest in voting for her. Check Iowa.

[JaneyVee]

27. LOL OK. It's Iowa, and it's the primaries.

Who they gonna vote for Trump?

[Dawgs]

32. No. They will stay home.

The Republicans will have no problem finding enough people to beat her.

[JaneyVee]

35. Check the polls. They aint beating her.

[stopbush]

53. Staying home is 1/2 a vote against Hillary. Voting for the R opponent is 1 vote against Hillary.

Which means that every indy or millennial who doesn't vote is cutting their own importance in half.

[davidn3600]

85. They don't care. Young people don't view it that way.

Millennials don't play "lesser of two evils" game.

If they are not motivated by a candidate to go out and vote, they will stay home. And the youth has been that way for years. One reason Obama won so big was because he energized the youth. He got them motivated and got them out to the polls. Otherwise, if Hillary was the nominee, those voters would have stayed home.

[stopbush]

86. But they do play the "all or nothing" game,

a game that's strictly for losers.

[davidn3600]

89. Depends how you look at it

They make the candidates earn their votes and not take it for granted.

The Democrats gained significant ground in 2008, a youth vote came out in force, and the party did nothing. They fell short on healthcare. They fell short on jobs. They fell short on student loans and tuition. The youth got nothing. So why do you think they are automatically come out in force for Hillary?

Trump won't give them nothing, that's true. But Hillary won't either. But Bernie might.

[stopbush]

93. It's 8 years down the road from 2008.

Those who voted for the first time in 2008 are now at least 26 years old. In those 8 years, millions of jobs have been created, most of them entry-level jobs that are most often manned by people in their twenties. Healthcare? They got to stay on their parents' plan for all that time, rather than having to secure their own insurance at age 18 like we oldsters did. Student loans and tuition? Yeah, that's a problem. Agreed.

But to say the youth got nothing from the Obama presidency sounds a lot like entitled whining to me.

[Ed Suspicious]

45. God. you're a better cheerleader than an analyst.

[speaktruthtopower]

20. Not a problem yet...

unless Bernie starts hitting harder.

[Dawgs]

24. Huh? She got her ass handed to her by the youth and Indy voters. n/t

[ViseGrip]

30. She doesn't!

[KingFlorez]

36. Consider the alternative

When it comes down to actually facing a Republican, Clinton will not have an issue turning out the necessary votes for a win. Sanity vs. Insanity is what the general election will be and that is what will drive turn out.

[Dawgs]

50. Yeah, kind of like 2000 and 2004, right?

How many years since the last time the Democrats won the WH without an inspirational candidate?

[KingFlorez]

55. 2000 was clearly corrupted by fraud

Bush won 2004 by screeching about 9/11 and terrorism non-stop.

With that considered, a lot of moderates who supported Bush in 2004 have been put off the Republican Party because of the extreme shift to the dangerous right it has taken.

[uponit7771]

38. No help?! Really?! Hyperbole much?

[pandr32]

46. Hopefully all those new democrats will support their party

Or prove to be deliberately destructive...like the right-wing fringe.
So, if the "youth or Indys" refuse to get in there and help our democratic government work and or improve...it won't.

[Dawgs]

48. What new democrats? You mean the Indys that signed up last night to vote for someone else?

Good luck with that.

[Doctor_J]

61. They are excited about Sanders vision of hope and progress. The party has told them to fuck off

They aren't new democrats who are going to vote for a pro war, pro TPP, anti labor, anti healthcare, flip flopping establishment conservative just because she calls herself a democrat.

[FrenchieCat]

47. If Bernie Sanders wanted to run as an Independent, he should have done just that....

If what you are saying is that folks who lose the primaries won't vote if it isn't their candidate who wins,
then what you are saying is that Bernie Sanders ran to destroy the Democratic party, and if that's the case,
yes, the GOP wins a trifecta. If some Bernie folks don't care about that, then they are doing a great disservice to this country,
that they claim to care so much about. If the only thing that they care about is either Bernie Sanders, or their issues being known even if it means burning down the house, then so be it....and same folks should be ready to take the responsibility when we are set decades back! If folks want that, then go at it, but rationalizing as an honorable goal is not an accurate statement, IMO.

[Dawgs]

49. Didn't say a thing about Bernie.

Not sure why you are.

[Proud Public Servant]

54. With the exception of 2008, In 30+ years of voting

I have never, ever voted for a Dem in the primary who went on to win the nomination. And I have never, ever failed to show up in the general and support our party's nominee -- i.e., the guy I voted against in the primary.

That's how I behave. I'll bet that's how you behave. Why are you assuming others won't?

[Doctor_J]

62. because these people are not committed to the party. They identify with Bernie, not with a party

designation

[SheenaR]

56. She doesn't

if it's Rubio.

On local radio alone today, people of both parties (several, most of them sounding uninformed spouting media talking points) made it clear they won't vote for Trump or Hillary no matter what.

Strategically speaking, I don't see how HRC wins in the Fall. The turnout will be very very low on our end and Independents are not going be swayed over the next nine months. IMO

[NurseJackie]

59. Oh good god ... this again?

[Dawgs]

67. Sure, not a big deal, right?

Why should we care if our nominee can't win?

[mythology]

63. How does Sanders win without minorities or middle class voters

You can't presume that just because a group supported one candidate in the primary that they won't support the primary victor.

For example in 2008 Hispanic primary supporters voted heavily for Clinton in the primaries but then voted heavily for Obama in the general.

If we take your assumption as gospel, the Sanders will lose women, minorities people who make $50,000 (ie the median income), or union families.

[Metric System]

66. Perfect response.

[Dawgs]

68. uh, big difference.

I'm sure you know that.

And my post has nothing to do with Bernie.

[FrenchieCat]

69. Your post has everything to do with Bernie....

as he is Hillary's only opponent in the primaries.

Some of us make that link, even if you are saying that's not what you are doing...as it is still implied.

[Dawgs]

90. Think what you want.

Doesn't change the fact that Hillary has zero chance of winning the GE.

Democrats should have never gotten behind someone that is sure to lose. It was a lost cause long before Berner entered the race.

[Warren DeMontague]

71. MILLENNIALS LOVE HILLARY! STOP LYING!

Also, she won BIG last night. HONEST.

[Agnosticsherbet]

77. If they youth and the Indys, want a Cruz, or Trump, or Rubio, they won't come out.

They way I will handle it is to say, they get everything they deserve from a Republican House, Senate, President, and Supreme Court.

I am sure they will enjoy what Republicans will do.

[book_worm]

79. How will Bernie win with no help from voters over 29?

Once she is nominated as the first female presidential nominee you will see lots of young women voting for her.

[beachbumbob]

83. Why would any democrat, progressive or liberal let gop win?

Not supporting the democratic nominee makes you a supporter of the batshit crazies...wtf?..,would you want a trump or Cruz be president?.,,,then shame on you...and America deserves what we get and YoU are responsible for it

[grossproffit]

87. +1000

[MisterP]

92. oh FFS these limp-ass Republicrats have been cozying up to the Cruzes for two decades

and whining that their wet-noodle non-campaigning isn't attracting their divine due of voters

America's finally standing up to them and saying "enough," and you're sitting here yelling "more"

[Ron Green]

91. If Hillary's weathervane was really working right,

she'd drop out now and endorse Bernie. Her short-term forecast is pretty good until the fall, but the longer view is not as clear to her.