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Tue Feb 2, 2016, 06:02 PM

 

You do know what a Pyrrhic Victory is, don't you?

from wikipedia:

A Pyrrhic victory is a victory that inflicts such a devastating toll on the victor that it is tantamount to defeat. Someone who wins a Pyrrhic victory has been victorious in some way. However, the heavy toll negates any sense of achievement or profit. Another term for this would be "hollow victory".

The phrase Pyrrhic victory is named after king Pyrrhus of Epirus, whose army suffered irreplaceable casualties in defeating the Romans at Heraclea in 280 BC and Asculum in 279 BC during the Pyrrhic War. After the latter battle, Plutarch relates in a report by Dionysius:

The armies separated; and, it is said, Pyrrhus replied to one that gave him joy of his victory that one other such victory would utterly undo him. For he had lost a great part of the forces he brought with him, and almost all his particular friends and principal commanders; there were no others there to make recruits, and he found the confederates in Italy backward. On the other hand, as from a fountain continually flowing out of the city, the Roman camp was quickly and plentifully filled up with fresh men, not at all abating in courage for the loss they sustained, but even from their very anger gaining new force and resolution to go on with the war.

— Plutarch, Life of Pyrrhus



In both of Pyrrhus's victories, the Romans suffered greater casualties than Pyrrhus did. However, the Romans had a much larger supply of men from which to draw soldiers and their casualties did less damage to their war effort than Pyrrhus's casualties did to his.

The report is often quoted as

"Another such victory and I come back to Epirus alone",



or

"If we are victorious in one more battle with the Romans, we shall be utterly ruined."



On edit:
Hillary's supporters on this site may be fuzzy about the meaning, but I'll wager Hillary isn't. All that money for what? If this is what it's going to cost in each state, she's going to run out in a couple of weeks...and the SuperPACS scandal shall increase.

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Arrow 21 replies Author Time Post
Reply You do know what a Pyrrhic Victory is, don't you? (Original post)
ErisDiscordia Feb 2016 OP
Nedsdag Feb 2016 #1
Adrahil Feb 2016 #3
Motown_Johnny Feb 2016 #21
uponit7771 Feb 2016 #2
Contrary1 Feb 2016 #4
uponit7771 Feb 2016 #6
roguevalley Feb 2016 #7
uponit7771 Feb 2016 #9
w4rma Feb 2016 #10
uponit7771 Feb 2016 #12
w4rma Feb 2016 #17
uponit7771 Feb 2016 #18
Mother Of Four Feb 2016 #20
whatchamacallit Feb 2016 #5
DanTex Feb 2016 #8
arely staircase Feb 2016 #14
KingCharlemagne Feb 2016 #11
arely staircase Feb 2016 #13
arely staircase Feb 2016 #15
ErisDiscordia Feb 2016 #16
Beacool Feb 2016 #19

Response to ErisDiscordia (Original post)

Tue Feb 2, 2016, 06:04 PM

1. I've been calling her victory "pyrrhic" all along.

She may have won the battle, but she could still lose the war.

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Response to Nedsdag (Reply #1)

Tue Feb 2, 2016, 06:05 PM

3. Could? Sure. But it's better to start with a victory!!! nt

 

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Response to Adrahil (Reply #3)

Tue Feb 2, 2016, 10:13 PM

21. Compared to that extra $13 million she spent?

 


Maybe you are right. Only time will tell, but she did have money problems back in '08.

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Response to ErisDiscordia (Original post)

Tue Feb 2, 2016, 06:05 PM

2. I agree, Sanders lost more than he won... his numbers were established and now people..

... will start looking at the message and how he'll get any of it past a GOP congress with his calls of revolution (not Hillary's) and where was he with this revolution when ACA was trying to push medicare for all through?!

P.S. Hillary is NOT calling for a burning the house down revolution... Sanders is!!! Hillary is calling for as many unilateral measures as possible to get things through or around congress.

Stop throwing Sanders cross on others backs... its his to bear

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Response to uponit7771 (Reply #2)

Tue Feb 2, 2016, 06:11 PM

4. I doubt that either Sanders or Clinton will get much past a GOP Congress...

They've gotten accustomed to trying to block everything but Benghazi investigations.

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Response to Contrary1 (Reply #4)

Tue Feb 2, 2016, 06:14 PM

6. I put in parantheses "NOT HILLARY"... she's not calling for revolution Sanders is...

... that's his cross to bear. Hillary is proffering unilateral actions which Sanders will soon follow her lead

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Response to uponit7771 (Reply #2)

Tue Feb 2, 2016, 06:15 PM

7. this is what annoys me the most about bringing congress in. First of all, you discount

coattails. He has them. The GOP is ripe to be put down for good. Given that he beats the GOP candidate no matter who it is from 5-19 points, he will bring in dems all over the place because people voting for him will give him allies which he asks for every time he speaks. You have to come with me on this journey, he says, or it won't work. The enthusiasm and support on this forum is just a microcosm of what is out there in the world. I don't know ANYONE who wants HRC and I am talking rabid clintonites from the past. No young person I know is for her. THey want Bernie because he isn't running a NO YOU CAN'T, I DON'T HAVE A DREAM campain.

Secondly, HRC is the most damaged candidate I have seen in a lifetime. She is accused by the pugs of MURDER. It doesn't matter that they're full of shit and whatever. IT IS THE STORY ON HER IN THE BIG WORLD. She hasn't figured out how to change it and she never will. She is accused of MURDERING her own friends. She is considered a crook, a liar, a fraud, a person who BENGHAZI! BENGHAZI! BENGHAZI! and a thief with White Water. She is HATED so much by them that some of the pugs are talking impeachment already.

HOW THE HELL does that person work with them? How the hell does she pass anything whatsoever? She is loathed with the fire of a thousand suns by the GOP. NO one will work with her. How is she better?

Bernie will have momentum from the people. HRC has money from the oligarchs and the mob waiting for her. They think she MURDERED her best friend. And that doesn't count Bill and his antics past and present as well as her emails and the FBI breathing down her neck and Bill's over their foundation. Her negatives are monstrous for a reason. No one with her negatives has ever been elected in the GE. Seriously, don't snow us. We were here all along too and watched the same movie. Some of us are ready to change the channel.

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Response to roguevalley (Reply #7)

Tue Feb 2, 2016, 06:20 PM

9. You and Sanders discount the math of historic digitally gerrymandering congress. Math doesn't suck..

... and reality isn't Hillary concept.

Sanders whole spiel depends on you not knowing the effects of the GOP gerrymandered congress... and how "coattails" doesn't matter to this ... DIGITALLY ... gerrymandered congress

I, like most democrats, don't hate Hillary and understand her non calls for revolution but as many unilateral actions around them she can take.

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Response to uponit7771 (Reply #2)

Tue Feb 2, 2016, 06:28 PM

10. You're concerned about folks looking at Sanders's message? THAT'S WHAT WE WANT!

 

We WANT folks to research Sanders's message! You're naive to think that it isn't a winning message.

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Response to w4rma (Reply #10)

Tue Feb 2, 2016, 06:33 PM

12. I do too!! I want them to start asking where the hell was all this during the ACA fight, where was..

... this "revolution" in the last 6 years when America needed it other than proffering that the Dem president be primaried!?

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Response to uponit7771 (Reply #12)

Tue Feb 2, 2016, 08:22 PM

17. Sanders got two major riders onto the ACA bill. One that subsidies low income health clinics.

 

And another that allows for single payer at the state level. That's pretty impressive, to me.

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Response to w4rma (Reply #17)

Tue Feb 2, 2016, 08:26 PM

18. Do you have a link for that? I'm willing to change my mind based on the facts.... tia

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Response to uponit7771 (Reply #18)

Tue Feb 2, 2016, 08:57 PM

20. I tried to find a non partisan article for you -

(Reposted after I checked to see if others linked to TPM)

Since I support Bernie.

Here you go

On one hand, he sat on the Senate Health, Education, Labor and Pensions (or HELP) Committee -- one of the two committees charged with pulling together the legislation. And he championed not-insignificant provisions like expanded funding for community health centers and providing an option for states to experiment with their own systems.

On the other hand, his relentless push for the single-payer model made passing the bill more complicated
, some staffers working on the legislation at the time told TPM, and to say he was behind the core elements -- the exchanges, mandates, and the Medicaid expansion --- would be an exaggeration.

http://talkingpointsmemo.com/dc/sanders-role-in-the-affordable-care-act

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Response to ErisDiscordia (Original post)

Tue Feb 2, 2016, 06:14 PM

5. Hillary

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Response to ErisDiscordia (Original post)

Tue Feb 2, 2016, 06:17 PM

8. It's what people who lose try to pretend happened to the winners.

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Response to DanTex (Reply #8)

Tue Feb 2, 2016, 06:43 PM

14. +1 nt

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Response to ErisDiscordia (Original post)

Tue Feb 2, 2016, 06:30 PM

11. Like the Tet Offensive almost 48 years ago to the day. Sure, the U.S. Military won

 

the battles, but they lost the war.

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Response to ErisDiscordia (Original post)

Tue Feb 2, 2016, 06:42 PM

13. Falls appart due to lack of damage.

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Response to ErisDiscordia (Original post)

Tue Feb 2, 2016, 06:44 PM

15. I am sooooo bookmarking this. nt

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Response to ErisDiscordia (Original post)

Tue Feb 2, 2016, 07:34 PM

16. Follow the MONEY

 

http://www.nakedcapitalism.com/2016/02/200pm-water-cooler-212016.html

Money

O’Malley meltdown: $169,442 cash on hand, $535,477 in debt. Owes staffers salary & has $500K outstanding bank loan” (@davelevinthal) Federal Election Commission. Well, he might have lasted long enough to take a few votes from Sanders, and that’s got to be worth something. So I hope Hillary’s straw gets a nice job at The Clinton Foundation.

Clinton’s squillionaires: Soros, $8 million, Haim and Cheryl Saban, $3 million; Sandler and Donald Sussman, $1.5 million each Politico. And millionaires: “The top 10 employers of her contributors were the law firms Paul Weiss, Kirkland & Ellis, Jenner & Block and Sidley Austin; Cantor Fitzgerald, Lazard and Morgan Stanley; Stanford; Google; and healthcare company Centene, according to the FEC report Politico.

Sanders small contributors: “More than 770,000 people gave to the Vermont senator’s bid in January, with online contributions averaging just $27, the campaign said. And Sanders has so far received more than 3.25 million contributions — more than any presidential campaign at this point in the cycle ever” Politico. “More than 99.9 percent of donors are able to give to Sanders again because they haven’t reached the limit, unlike other campaigns whose contributors are maxed out, the campaign said.” Ya know, you’d think Soros could at least have given Sanders $27 bucks. How hard would that have been?

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Response to ErisDiscordia (Original post)

Tue Feb 2, 2016, 08:35 PM

19. How condescending.

I would assume that most educated people know the meaning of a Pyrrhic victory. Considering that this was IA, Hillary did quite well indeed. A lot better than her husband did in 1992 and a lot better than she did in 2008.

The onus was on Sanders, Hillary didn't need to win in IA, Sanders had more to lose. Since she won by a hair, I think that both are in good shape. She finally won in IA, a state where the demographics were more propitious for Sanders, and he proved that he's a viable candidate. He will easily win in NH and then we're off to the races.

No pyrrhic victory here......


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