Wow. Senator Sanders is an excellent debater.

[TheProgressive]

He traverses the country giving speeches to 10's of thousands of people.

And when he is debating against the Establishment Candidate.... Wow...
Facts. Diplomacy. Articulate.

And kicking proverbial ASS.

[Recursion]

1. Meh. Neither of them really do much for me in debates

Sanders is better at speeches, at least for me, than Clinton, but both are pretty bad debaters.

[TheProgressive]

2. Fair enough... your opinion mileage may very....

[JimDandy]

28. Finsh it...may very well be wrong.

[PatrynXX]

21. Debates are primarily good for those who haven't decided

for me I'd rather watch flies fuck. oh well maybe not but something with that word in it lol

[Cassiopeia]

27. I hate lovebug season.

Those fuckers are all but impossible to get off the car.

[Recursion]

36. I went to Cedar Point once in May and thought it was snowing

"Nope. Just the flies fucking."

[nxylas]

79. So you don't approve of Hillary's no fly zones then?

Thank you, I'll be here all week.

[CorporatistNation]

89. Bernie Needs To Add The No Fly Zone Advocacy Over Syria To The Iraq War Vote...

The No Fly Zone advocacy has been derided by everyone of BOTH parties as FOOLHARDY! BERNIE NEEDS TO BURN HER BIGTIME WITH THIS... Because this stupid judgment of hers is current and risks igniting a possible SHOOTING WAR WITH RUSSIA!

Her judgement is so consistently pathetic that it is SCARY!

[ImaPolitico]

80. I find that...

Sanders yelled for 45 minutes, rolled his eyes during last nights debate. Does that makes him a good debater?
The media is blasting Hillary for her shrill voice because she is a woman.

[Unknown Beatle]

85. There it is, ladies and gents.

Throwing out the misogynist card. They're blasting her because she's a woman with a shrill voice but not because her policy stances are terrible. Also because she's been caught lying, lying, and lying some more.

[elmac]

3. Sen Sanders shines at town hall type events

HRC does her best at debates. Both are so close to each other on issues its hard to give a complete debate grade.

[snagglepuss]

38. They are not close on issues at all. To say they're close on issues is downright wrong.

[Clayguy61]

43. Voted together 93% of the time

http://www.nytimes.com/2015/05/28/upshot/the-senate-votes-that-divided-hillary-clinton-and-bernie-sanders.html?_r=0

In Senate for 2 years together, they voted 93% of time the same. Thom Hartmann noted that they are same in domestic votes and the difference is foreign policy-10% of time

[frylock]

47. Which was the more important vote? Renaming a post office, or IWR?

[snagglepuss]

48. No disputing that but the platforms they are running on now are not similar.

[InAbLuEsTaTe]

51. Guess that makes Hillary a socialist... uh oh!

Bernie & Elizabeth 2016!!!

[hopemountain]

54. according to DWS on faux news tonight

the correct figure is 95%. over reach much? even if they have voted similarly as democrat senators in the past when they were part of the democrat caucus in congress - means they compromised and reached consensus - not that they "agree". hillary sure is reaching here.

[AlbertCat]

69. even if they have voted similarly as democrat(ic) senators

Wait.... I thought Sanders WASN'T a democrat!!!!..... or something....

[countryken]

76. 'democrat' as an adjective?

'Democrat senators'? 'Democrat caucus'? That's GOP terminology.

[hopemountain]

87. no. democrat as a noun

as in i am a "democrat".

[trillion]

39. Excuse me? Those two are not close at all. Unless you're drinking Hillarys recent ultra liberal

Koolaide. Now she's for raising the minimum wages and every thing else Bernie is for so they sound alike, but for her it's desperation. When she said how she really felt her supporters didn't want to hear that.

[hopemountain]

52. oh, jeez - the new clintonista meme

to mislead and confuse primary voters. it's been said countless times across the msm - more so the past few days.
blech.

[elmac]

81. As a Bernie supporter

I must admit that some Bernie supporters on DU act like spoiled little brats if things aren't Bernie, Bernie, Bernie all the time.

[hopemountain]

88. so, you came here to attack us? nt

[elmac]

90. Thank you for proving my point

Wha Wha Whaaaaaaa

[rhett o rick]

82. On issues they are as different as night and day. She doesn't believe in a living wage, supporting

SS, helping college students, medical marijuana. Give me your list of issues they are close on. Not foreign policy, not on the Patriot Act, not on DOMA, NAFTA, the TPP, fracking, Again give me your list.

[beaglelover]

4. Well not so much in the foreign policy area. Overall though, they are both great debaters.

[Fawke Em]

6. His foreign policy is fine.

Don't be "wowed" by her name-dropping. I can do that, too.

[Paulie]

16. You can't say your buddies with Henry Kissinger though!

Thank the maker!

[trillion]

41. What do you like about her foreign policy? So far what I've seen has been horrid.

Last edited Fri Feb 5, 2016, 02:07 AM - Edit history (2)

Her Syria no fly zone idea was bad and would create a humanitarian crisis just like every liberal news outlet pointed out, but it had NOTHING on her threats to use nukes on Iran.

Please, tell me what you DO like about her foreign policy? It may take me a min to get back while I go get links because I have a feeling you don't know her foreign policy.

I have to deal with my niece who showed up, I will be back because I think her foreign policy needs links.

Here's a quick one.
http://www.salon.com/2015/10/14/hillary_is_still_the_democrat_for_war_she_won_the_debate_but_her_bellicosity_toward_iran_sounded_very_dangerous/


Clinton Defends 'Obliterate Iran' Comment, Obama Calls It Bush-Style 'Cowboy Diplomacy'
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2008/05/04/clintons-obliterate-iran_n_100031.html?

Clinton says U.S. could "totally obliterate" Iran
http://www.reuters.com/article/us-usa-politics-iran-idUSN2224332720080422


Iran files protest at UN over Hillary Clinton's 'obliterate' comment
http://www.nytimes.com/2008/05/01/world/africa/01iht-iran.4.12492135.html

Clinton warns Iran of US Nuclear Response (She's been doing this since 2008)
http://www.nbcnews.com/id/24246275/ns/msnbc-countdown_with_keith_olbermann/t/clinton-warns-iran-us-nuclear-response/#.VrQ0-llzWM8

[platitudipus]

46. Foreign policy isn't difficult to grasp...

the most important thing is to have common sense and good judgment. A lifetime of experience is worthless without good judgment. Bernie's bursting at the seams with it!

[rhett o rick]

83. She is great in foreign policy if you are a neocon. nm

[pnwmom]

5. Not on foreign affairs. His lack of a solid background was painfully clear. n/t

[TheProgressive]

7. Accurate judgement trumps experience...

[pnwmom]

13. One correct vote doesn't mean his judgment is better overall. He kept repeating

himself because that's the only thing he can point to.

[Bubzer]

25. He kept repeating himself because that's all he needs to do...

His record is amazing... and by comparison, it looks even better.

[pnwmom]

26. All 3 times they asked him what he was going to do about getting the 10,000

troops out of Afghanistan, he changed the subject to Iraq and/or Isis. He obviously wasn't ready to talk about Afghanistan, so he changed the subject and hoped no one would notice.

[Bubzer]

31. He's far more interested in domestic policy...it's by far, his strenth.

It's smart to stick with your strengths. Hillary's just not as strong in domestic policy as he is.

[pnwmom]

33. Hillary's stronger in both domestic and foreign policy, but he's especially weak

on foreign.

[Bubzer]

34. Over a million indipendent donors disagree.

[snagglepuss]

40. Someone who blames naivety as

a reason for voting for a disastrous war is not fit to be president. It was her responsibility as a Senator to make an informed decision not merely be lead by the nose. She failed stupendously.

[amborin]

55. Hillary's bad decision to urge Obama to topple Qaddafi is more poor judgment.

She failed to recognize her Intel was flawed even though most analysts recognized it as such. Her real crime in Libya was toppling Qaddafi. He had turned toward the West. Now Libya is in chaos and ISIS roams freely.

[redruddyred]

71. **americans** are much more interested in domestic policy

and staying out of expensive foreign adventures

[harun]

72. Amen

[frylock]

49. cough*Libya*cough

[Fawke Em]

8. Not to me. His is far more pragmatic.

He just doesn't name-drop left and right like she does.

I can learn the names of presidents and their secretaries, too.

[nc4bo]

12. "It's 3 a.m.............."nt

[amborin]

15. Hillary's backing didn't help; she made terrible foreign policy blunders that wreak havoc in the ME.

She didn't learn from her bad Iraq vote. She unsuccessfully tries to blame it on Bush. But she rashly toppled Qaddafi in Libya based on bad Intel that everyone knew was flawed. Redux. She's a scary neo con who wants to ratchet up war. Her military-industrial sponsors like the prospect but the world suffers and our homeland is deteriorating as we post.

[840high]

18. As was Obama's.

[Ed Suspicious]

30. He's going to need some help on foreign affairs, but don't let her international realism, her tough

talk be too persuasive. I think she is without a doubt more knowledgeable on foreign affairs, and he did concede that point, but I have every confidence that he is smart enough to put the people in place who will inform and carry out his policy.

I think he is head and shoulders better on nearly every other issue, and on many of those issues, I am simply morally and philosophically aligned with him. Take the death penalty, there is simply nothing she can say that can convince me that the death penalty is ever appropriate. Failings in the criminal justice system too many to enumerate here have shown that we should not grant the system power to enact the ultimate punishment. On trade and the economy, he simply stands where I stand on the issue.

Look, a lot of people like the idea that government should be run like a business. I do not, but I do know that if I did, I recognize that the CEO has accountants and marketing experts and production managers and HR to help him/her in the developing strategies for how to get to where the CEO's vision dictates. Bernie has a strong vision and he has an understanding of what needs to be done to get us there and he has the humility to put people in place to augment his strengths and minimize his weaknesses. I find him to be the consummate leader.

I find Hillary to have a muddled vision on nearly all issues. I think she is one hell of a technocrat. She is incredibly detail oriented and technically competent. I respect that. She would make an amazing operations manager or VP of something, but I simply don't see her as a leader with a clear vision. I'm not convinced that she knows where she would like to see the country go. I can't tell if she can give an elevator pitch about what the country needs. I know Bernie could. I think that clear vision is of paramount importance when it comes to organizational leadership, especially when that organization is 300+ million strong.

[snagglepuss]

42. Dang! That is one brilliant post.

[Beartracks]

44. +1 Good thoughts and reasoning.

I remember reading somewhere (linked from DU, probably) that government can't be run "like a business" because the purpose of a business is to turn a profit, and the purpose of a government is to provide services. Sure, a business owner may be interested in providing high quality goods or services, but if profits dwindle he shuts his doors; governments can't close up shop like that. "The trains still have to run on time." By the same token, you can't run a Federal budget like a household budget, because households are insular while the government has responsibilities toward a national economy and monetary policy. Government can't just "tighten its belt" like Mom & Dad 'til things get better, since a government must take the lead in actually making things better. For that matter, I recall, DEBT is THE way that governments (not just ours, but governments in general) get things done.

Of course, a government (or governmental unit) can operate using good business principles -- budget accountability, risk and cost/benefit analyses, waste & fraud mitigation, etc. -- but it simply can't be run like a business.

=============

[Jarqui]

50. +!

It was a very thoughtful and good post

[pablo_marmol]

60. Allow me to praise this post as well.

It has always been my belief that Bernie is humble enough to know his limitations, and sharp enough to surround himself with people who can counsel him in these areas.

Voting for Hillary seems like a completely losing proposition, because she fails the Movement Democrat test as well as the electability test.

[DeGreg]

53. Come Clean America!

Agreed, an honest assessment of how Bernie did during the foreign affairs sections of the debate must acknowledge a certain hollowness.But that doesn't have to be a bad thing now that it has been showcased in a debate (though audience #s unknown). I'd say he needs to identify and align himself (right quick) with a possible, even eventual, Sec of State to help fill that hollow. How 'bout a turned Colin Powell? Powell could foreswear, in the most contrite and honest way, all his past ideological and practical alignments––and come clean––cross over to good. That would be something. What do you think? Who's else is out there? Who would fit? Obviously, a hawk would be too much in one direction; a pacifist, too much in the other. Keep in mind that I have no idea what I am talking about (this will reveal itself by the time I hit my 10 replies before I can start something), and this is my first reply, ever, on DU.

[Peace Patriot]

59. Welcome to DU, DeGreg!

I cannot forgive Colin Powell for the lies he told at the UN, to promote that horrible, horrible Bush-Cheney-Rumsfeld war. What he did is...simply unforgivable.

But I agree with you that Sanders needs to put together a foreign policy team because he has become a very serious contender, indeed. He has probably been surprised by his success. His economic policy has been such a positive mind-blower to millions and millions of people! I'm sure he started out wanting simply to get certain things into national public discussion--things like the vastly corrupt campaign contribution system and the deregulation of Wall Street and the Banksters. I strongly suspect that he didn't think there would be such a response, not this big, and not one that has made him a serious contender out of Iowa. He's hardly had time to catch his breath, the response to him has been so amazing. Now he has to FINISH his policy proposals.

Senator Sanders is a very, very smart man who has been fighting for true progressive policies for forty years. He entered politics in the era of Vietnam and the Civil Rights Movement, and was right on both of those matters as a STUDENT. He's been in Congress for many decades, and involved in innumerable committees and debates on just about everything that comes before Congress. He is a policy wonk, and also a larger thinker about our government and society as a whole. I have NO DOUBT AT ALL that he will come up with a stunning foreign policy plan, like he has on everything else.

While Powell was lying about Iraq, and Clinton was voting for the war, Sanders successfully figured out exactly what was happening (lies from Bush, Cheney, Rumsfeld) and what was about to happen (the horrible destabilization of the Middle East), and, what is more, he said so publicly at the time! His statements on foreign policy so far in this campaign--not a full policy as yet, but addressing individual issues--have been very pertinent and wise--for instance, regarding ISIL as an attack on Islam and requiring all these Islamic countries that we have given boffo weapons to, to get into that fight and save their culture and their religion, and restore peace. He has said diplomacy first, and war only as a last resort. That is not enough for me but it's a beginning--because I BELIEVE HIM. That is a big point for me. He is not going to lie to us. And he is at least going to try to counter the immense forces in Washington DC that are always contriving the next war (to pad their pockets with). He is not going to use our soldiers as cannon fodder for oil and other corporate interests. I believe that about him. (And I do not believe and do not trust Hillary Clinton on foreign policy or war issues--nor on just about anything, I'm afraid.)

It's up to Sanders to find the foreign policy advisers he needs. It won't be easy, when most of the "experts" have been so wrong. He might start with others who opposed the war publicly at the time. On military matters, he might delve into the younger ranks, for instance, the military Jag lawyers who opposed torture (at peril of their careers), and he surely could find some very articulate and brilliant young war veterans. He's only just started this steep and sudden rise in popularity, so some foreign policy experts might have held back, waiting to see if he had a viable candidacy. Then he needs to assemble them (those he has already listed as advisers, and others), finish his foreign policy platform, and give one or more foreign policy speeches, covering all major issues.

I was not happy with his non-answer on Afghanistan. I want him to go back to that. And there is a lot more, of course--foreign policies in this hemisphere and all over the world. Lots to do, but Sanders seems to have tremendous energy, and a genuinely positive and hopeful attitude.

[ljm2002]

61. Welcome to DU!

Wow, that's the first time I've ever been able to welcome someone at their very first post!

Didn't watch the debate, sadly, as I had another commitment, so I can't comment on how he came off on foreign policy. But no, I don't think Colin Powell would be a good or trustworthy SoS.

[bigwillq]

70. Hello

Welcome to DU!

[Duval]

75. Welcome, DeGreg!

[kath]

57. How much foreign affairs experience did Bill or Obama have when they took office?

[TheProgressive]

9. Again, WOW... On trade?

Senator Sanders is right on target...!

[slipslidingaway]

10. Excellent response by Sanders nt

[SheenaR]

11. That trade answer

Was fantastic

[RiverLover]

14. Bullseye!

He'll be a phenomenal president.

[in_cog_ni_to]

17. Yes he is!

That's why he likes doing them.

He's kicking her behind tonight. Her? She looks out of control, talks too much, deliberately and rudely interrupts Bernie everytime he's answering a question.

PEACE
LOVE
BERNIE

[840high]

19. She interrupts which means

she's not listening.

[Spitfire of ATJ]

20. Ever been in a debate? It's easier if you believe in what you're saying.

[TheProgressive]

23. Pre*cise*ly....

[SoapBox]

22. Because he knows what he is talking about...

And he has been absolutely consistent in his stances vs the spin of Camp Weathervane.

[H2O Man]

24. Yep.

Recommended.

[ashling]

29. He never answered the Toad's question

about Afghanistan

[TCJ70]

32. Yo mean the one...

...that asked him to predict the future? Neither candidate answered it because they can't. That particular question doesn't reflect poorly on either of them.

[Akamai]

35. I just gave him 27$ plus tip right now!

Bernie Roared! Great!

I sure wish Obama could have roared back. But Obama was hamstrung from the start. (Look at the Caucus Room Conspiracy in Google.)

[TheProgressive]

37. Obama did not tap into the American Democratic Electorate.

No other way to say that.

Sanders is specifically asking for our Political Revolution...

[Akamai]

45. And please don't tell my far, far better half that I did.

Reminds me of the story about Lincoln who said he would donate a certain sum to a candidate in an election. And when he was asked by the candidate's representative if he could, if he told his wife he would, he said, "No -- I will tell her I contributed twice what I pledged, and she will bring me back to this number I am contributing now.

[fourcents]

56. Debates are so important because they get a chance to...

Debates are so important because they get a chance to mention issues the corporate media purposely ignoring Tpp TTip TISA anyone

[99th_Monkey]

58. Bernie carries a sense of decorum, directness and respect for his audience.

I love that in a candidate.

[pablo_marmol]

62. +1

And that's why he'll pull in votes our political opponents and middle-of-the-roaders.

[99th_Monkey]

63. won't.

You forgot that part.

Bernie is a class act, channeling the passion of FDR, MLK & RFK trapped
in the body of a 74 y.o. secular Jewish Democratic Socialist who's on fire
with passion for keeping the Dream alive, for a future worth believing in.

[pablo_marmol]

64. I left out the word 'from'............

........and was referring to polling that is demonstrating that he'd siphon GOP votes.

Edited to add and clarify:

http://www.democraticunderground.com/12511146098

[99th_Monkey]

65. that works too.

I agree.

[Uncle Joe]

66. Bernie is a class act.

Thanks for the thread, TheProgressive.

[BigBearJohn]

67. Absolutely correct. It's about time we had a classy president.

[Perogie]

68. He's a Master.....

Sorry old joke couldn't pass up.

Go Bernie.

[katmondoo]

73. Wow. Secretary Clinton is an excellent debater

[Duval]

74. He is such a gentleman and he keeps his "cool".

[NurseJackie]

77. Good one! :-D

[Joe Chi Minh]

78. It helps enormously to have truth on your side,

particularly, when clear-cut.

[TheProgressive]

84. I never had a post ever get these many Recs...

I am humbled...!

[Aerows]

86. It's a whole lot easier

to debate when you don't have to remember what lies you've told.