2016 Postmortem
Related: About this forumThe red-baiting of Bernie is getting ridiculous.
This whole notion that Bernie being an "OMG SOCIALIST OMG he volunteered at a kibbutz OMG" is going to hurt him in the general election is based on a false premise. The GOP already calls Democrats "communists" and "socialists", Obama is constantly called a Communist despite being a fairly establishment, pro-corporate president. the kind people people scared by the word "socialism" will not be voting Dem anyway.
The Establishment is either chasing after potential Dem voters that don't actually exist, or, more likely, are using that as an excuse for the status quo.
uponit7771
(90,304 posts)Odin2005
(53,521 posts)Calling her owned by the Banks? Because she IS owned by the banks!
RoccoR5955
(12,471 posts)because she's not ripe enough yet.
MrMickeysMom
(20,453 posts)I hoped it wasn't a new form of masterbating...
Ken Burch
(50,254 posts)n/t.
uponit7771
(90,304 posts)Ken Burch
(50,254 posts)And can you get it in a gloss or matte' finish, or just flat?
jillan
(39,451 posts)beam me up scottie
(57,349 posts)retrowire
(10,345 posts)Put that away... Wow...
To clarify: What the fuck?
UnBlinkingEye
(56 posts)CNN seems to be as bad about this as FOX. Good thing the media is our friend...
Response to Odin2005 (Original post)
Post removed
Odin2005
(53,521 posts)And people over 40 need to get the fuck over it.
YoungDemCA
(5,714 posts)Do you have any idea of what Stalin, Mao, Castro, and other "defenders of the working class" did? Do you know how many millions of people were slaughtered in the name of the Glorious Socialist/Communist Revolution?
More and more people have forgotten. Try speaking to someone who lived under the Iron Curtain. You may just find how dangerously close to having a morally indefensible position you are.
AOR
(692 posts)That's the only logical thing that comes to mind... or that has to be satire... or someone really did hijack your account...
Odin2005
(53,521 posts)Warren DeMontague
(80,708 posts)Kibbutzim by definition were socialist enterprises. That was the idea.
So Hillary's gonna run full tilt against Israel, eh?
Matariki
(18,775 posts)KittyWampus
(55,894 posts)or you are just pretending (the polite way to characterize your post)
Warren DeMontague
(80,708 posts)But again, if Hillary's supporters really want to run on this, go right ahead.
EmperorHasNoClothes
(4,797 posts)Damn commie.
Jack Rabbit
(45,984 posts)jillan
(39,451 posts)People living together and helping one another is now a bad thing?
Maybe they will run attack ads of the soviet flag is Bernie is the nominee but if Hillary is the nom, don't be surprised to see the flag of Libya.
Hillary is not very well liked or respected by the gop & the fact that her supporters think that she will not get attacked is laughable. Not to mention that you think she will get anything done. I guarantee they will start screaming impeachment on day one if she is the nominee. Her baggage isn't going anywhere.
beam me up scottie
(57,349 posts)Sanders hung the Soviet flag in the mayoral office in Burlington, in honor the city's Soviet sister city Yaroslav.
http://www.keywiki.org/Bernie_Sanders
californiabernin
(421 posts)Seriously, if they try and use this it would just backfire as ridiculous negative political attacks.
It's 2016, you know?
Tierra_y_Libertad
(50,414 posts)George II
(67,782 posts)Must really irk people that even after 24+ years of being vetted she's still standing tall and is the Democratic Party's leading candidate for President.
billhicks76
(5,082 posts)It means nothing these days. The real news squeaks through the cracks now because of alternative media like DU. Vet her Iraq War vote. You're fighting history in the making here.
George II
(67,782 posts)The vote you refer to took place 13 years ago. Give it a rest. Remember, Sanders voted for many more war funding bills than Clinton did. And please don't give us the right wing "we had to support our troops" spiel. If he didn't vote to fund the war our troops would have be withdrawn immediately.
Finally, no - I'm not "fighting history in the making here" - history WILL be made, we will finally have a woman elected President.
billhicks76
(5,082 posts)You contradicted yourself.
AOR
(692 posts)did Obama lose the election ?
Of course that says a lot about the current state of the CPUSA from a leftist perspective, but that's neither here nor there in regards to your post.
passiveporcupine
(8,175 posts)After college, Sanders lived briefly in an Israeli kibbutz known as Kibbutz Sha'ar Ha'amakim (KSH), which was co-founded by Aharon Cohen, an Arabist who was a harsh critic of Israeli policy and was arrested for spying for the Soviet Union in the 1950s. Sanders stayed at KSH as a guest of the Zionist-Marxist youth movement Hashomer Hatzair (HH), which pledged its allegiance to the Soviet Union; some left-wing groups described HH as Leninist and even Stalinist. HH made it plain that its cooperation with Zionists was a temporary expedient designed to help pave the way for a socialist revolution; that it viewed Israel's independence as a transitional phase in the development of a bi-national socialist state which would ultimately end Israel's existence as a Jewish entity.
http://www.discoverthenetworks.org/individualProfile.asp?indid=2266
According to an Accuracy In Media report, Sanders during the 1980s "collaborated with Soviet and East German 'peace committees'" whose aim was "to stop President Reagans deployment of nuclear missiles in Europe. Indeed, he openly joined the Soviets 'nuclear freeze' campaign to undercut Reagans military build-up.
In an August 8, 1985 interview on a Vermont government-access television station, Sanders discussed his recent trip to Nicaragua and drew parallels between the Castro and Ortega regimes. "In 1961," he said, "[America] invaded Cuba, and everybody was totally convinced that Castro was the worst guy in the world, that all the Cuban people were going to rise up in rebellion against Fidel Castro. They forgot that he educated the kids, gave them health care, totally transformed the society. You know, not to say Fidel Castro and Cuba are perfect -- they are certainly not -- but just because Ronald Reagan dislikes these people does not mean to say that the people in their own nations feel the same way.
I think I need to start self flagellation for being so wrong to support Bernie
toothless dragon
(51 posts)its called ignorance... Thomas Jefferson had a Koran... I guess that make him a Muslim... Socialism is the natural state of humanity and the archaeological record proves that fact... we are supposed to take care of each other..
AlbertCat
(17,505 posts)The kibbutz was "Soviet-sympathizing" in the 1930's
and the flag in his office was for Burlington's Soviet sister city.
These are facts. You've only got truthiness.
JDPriestly
(57,936 posts)and try not to make things worse than he already is.
Until very recently, Southern capitols hung out the flag of the Rebels. That is totally unpatriotic and horrible. The flag of slave-states.
We never heard a lot of complaints about that.
At one time, Burlington Vermont was the sister city of the following cities:
Sister Cities
Bethlehem and Arad
Burlington, Ontario, Canada
Honfleur, France
Moss Point, Mississippi
Nishinomiya, Japan
Puerto Cabezas, Nicaragua
Yaroslavl, Russia
Sister Lakes
https://www.burlingtonvt.gov/Mayor/Sister-Cities
Now please be shocked!
Burlington Vermont is the sister city of a city in Russia. Has been since 1988 when the Berlin wall fell.
A Soviet flag is a historic thing. The Soviets are no longer in charge in Russia.
myrna minx
(22,772 posts)pangaia
(24,324 posts)I have 2 small flags outside my front door. One of them is the Chinese flag.
Am I a RED COMMIE !!!!!
earthside
(6,960 posts)... but that's okay.
I'm not going to be like the Hillarians and whine and weep because someone is attacking Sen. Sanders.
If (when) Sen. Sanders gets the Democratic nomination to be the party's candidate for President, we are going to hear all of these kinds of charges from the Repuglicans. I say, bring 'em on now so that we are toughened-up and ready to go.
The Sanders' campaign is about boldness and optimism; it is about stepping bravely into a progressive future.
Do your worst, Hillarians -- Americans need help and Sanders and his campaign are ready!
asuhornets
(2,405 posts)are going to do to him if he is the Democratic nominee, and apparently neither does Sanders. A $200 million right wing apparatus will turn him into a cartoon character. Hillary knows what that is like. And it will hurt him in the general election.
Warren DeMontague
(80,708 posts)With the funny sounding name!
Dooomed!
grasswire
(50,130 posts)Odin2005
(53,521 posts)I guess I'll stop caring and go start some self-sufficient commune in the middle of nowhere because we can't change anything, it's all hopeless and we just have to let Capitalism destroy the world.
greiner3
(5,214 posts)I heard his middle name is Hussein
hifiguy
(33,688 posts)Odin2005
(53,521 posts)TBF
(32,016 posts)A self-proclaimed socialist (who happens to be Jewish) was at a Kibbutz in Israel for a few months. STop the PResseS!!!!!
Odin2005
(53,521 posts)TBF
(32,016 posts)maybe my correspondent thinks we're still fighting the cold war.
Man, it is exhausting today.
asuhornets
(2,405 posts)And? I don't care anything Kibbutz. Whatever the hell that is. When were u born?
I was born in the 60s and I'm Jewish.
We're going to start simply with wikipedia: A kibbutz (Hebrew: קִבּוּץ / קיבוץ, lit. "gathering, clustering"; plural kibbutzim) is a collective community in Israel that was traditionally based on agriculture. The first kibbutz, established in 1909, was Degania.[1] Today, farming has been partly supplanted by other economic branches, including industrial plants and high-tech enterprises.[2] Kibbutzim began as utopian communities, a combination of socialism and Zionism.[3] In recent decades, some kibbutzim have been privatized and changes have been made in the communal lifestyle. A member of a kibbutz is called a kibbutznik (Hebrew: קִבּוּצְנִיק https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kibbutz
Interestingly they've become more privatized, as has Bernie for that matter.
The point is that in the 60s it was not at all unusual to spend time on the Kibbutz - many Americans did just that for a few years after college etc. It was a very idealistic time. I'd be more surprised if Bernie hadn't spent time there given his leftist positions.
As others have already told you, the republicans are so out of touch that they think Obama is a communist. In fact they think liberal and communist are interchangeable terms. These are not bright folks we are dealing with. They will red-bait Hillary as well eventually - when they get tired of rehashing all the Arkansas stuff (and that can keep them busy for years). This is not a reason to walk away from Bernie. As you saw in the debate last night he is incredibly bright and calm. He is proud of his status as a democratic socialist and has never hid it. Maybe folks (including here on DU) will finally learn what the words capitalist, socialist, and communist really mean if he is our candidate. And they will hear much better ideas than they would from his competition - who will just keep selling out to the highest bidder.
Warren DeMontague
(80,708 posts)Wow.
asuhornets
(2,405 posts)I do now. Another poster explained it to me. But before that no.
Warren DeMontague
(80,708 posts)she can kiss goodbye to the quite substantial Jewish Democratic vote.
asuhornets
(2,405 posts)I do not believe she will go that route. I don't believe anyone should.
Warren DeMontague
(80,708 posts)EmperorHasNoClothes
(4,797 posts)No attacks for her - they'll probably hold parties for her!
beam me up scottie
(57,349 posts)asuhornets
(2,405 posts)I expect that from Republicans and not so called liberals as well. You don't get to decide if I am a liberal or not.
beam me up scottie
(57,349 posts)asuhornets
(2,405 posts)the entire Democratic electorate. That's a problem.
beam me up scottie
(57,349 posts)Red baiting, anti-Semitism and any other kind of slurs should be off limits.
arcane1
(38,613 posts)YoungDemCA
(5,714 posts)beam me up scottie
(57,349 posts)Do you have any idea how cray cray you sound?
Armed revolutionaries, iron curtain, violent overthrow of the government, etc when referring to Bernie's supporters?
Erich Bloodaxe BSN
(14,733 posts)Look, the Repubs who are ready to buy into that claptrap aren't ever going to vote for either Bernie or Hillary anyway. So who really gives a rat's rear end about their dreaded 'apparatus'?
pnwmom
(108,959 posts)Reporters have had to dig to learn which kibbutz he volunteered at, but it was reported in a NYTimes story today
http://forward.com/news/320344/my-quixotic-hunt-for-bernie-sanders-kibbutz/
Depending on the writer, this detail might speak to Sanderss Jewish identity, his stance on Israel, or his socialist values. Were any or all of these honed in the communal agrarian idyll of 1960s Israel? No reporter or analyst has been able to fully address this question because no one has been able to pin down which kibbutz Sanders volunteered at for several months in 1964, after his graduation from the University of Chicago. Including me.
On my part, its not for lack of trying. Not even his brother, Larry Sanders, knows, despite the fact that he himself volunteered at two kibbutzim in Israel Matsuva in the North and Yotvata in the South and even met his first wife in Israel. Larry Sanders never visited Bernie Sanders on the kibbutz, but he said that it was a formative experience for his brother.
SNIP
The name of Sanderss kibbutz might seem like a minor detail, but its important. Among other things, it could build on our understanding of his formative years before he became a populist firebrand filling stadiums across America as Hillary Rodham Clintons main challenger in the Democratic primary race. Was it one of the hard-left kibbutzim of that era affiliated with the Marxist political party Mapam? Or was it one of the more moderate socialist communities affiliated with the ruling Mapai party?
http://www.nytimes.com/2016/02/06/us/politics/bernie-sanders-kibbutz.html?action=click&contentCollection=us&module=NextInCollection
Senator Bernie Sanders volunteered on an Israeli kibbutz in the 1960s, but he has always been vague about the specific location. Now, the mystery about the Democratic presidential candidates past appears to have been solved, in the archives of the Israeli newspaper Haaretz.
Yossi Melman, a longtime Haaretz writer, remembers an interview he did with Mr. Sanders in 1990, the year he was elected to represent Vermont in the House. Haaretz dug up that clip, in which Mr. Sanders said he had spent several months in 1963 working on Kibbutz Shaar Haamakim, near Haifa in northern Israel, as a guest of the Hashomer Hatzair youth movement.
SNIP
Mr. Ely said that on Shaar Haamakim, you care about your brother or your neighbor or whoever it is. The kibbutz was founded in Romania in 1929 and established in pre-state Israel in 1935. It saw the Soviet Union as a model, and often flew the red flag at outdoor events. Volunteers like Mr. Sanders would have internalized a political imperative to improve the lot of other, Mr. Ely said.
retrowire
(10,345 posts)This one is better.
"you care about your brother or your neighbor or whoever it is.
There. Neat.
beam me up scottie
(57,349 posts)retrowire
(10,345 posts)I saw kindness and unity and... Gah! It was horrible! Can we just go bomb some people already!? I'm losing my mind here!!!
<Sarcasm> lol
arcane1
(38,613 posts)And of course, that heresy killed Obama's chances at being elected president, right?
Admiral Loinpresser
(3,859 posts)billhicks76
(5,082 posts)Hillary aided republicans by publishing photos of Obama in a turban. I think Bernie will do just fine. The demographics have changed. FOX Noise is loud but outnumbered.
AlbertCat
(17,505 posts).... as easily as he handles Hillary's.
We're all so tired of the "be afraid!" meme.
eridani
(51,907 posts)Nanjeanne
(4,915 posts)Progressive dog
(6,899 posts)no one would care.
More than nine in 10 would vote for a Catholic, black, or woman
Ninety-one percent would vote for a Jewish or Hispanic candidate
Americans show most bias toward socialists (47%), atheists (58%)"
http://www.gallup.com/poll/183713/socialist-presidential-candidates-least-appealing.aspx
Odin2005
(53,521 posts)Progressive dog
(6,899 posts)actually bragging about being one.
Odin2005
(53,521 posts)Progressive dog
(6,899 posts)in fact they care a lot.
cannabis_flower
(3,764 posts)then it might be possible to get that up some by education. Anyone who would vote for a socialist would not vote for anyone in the clown car.
mhatrw
(10,786 posts)Progressive dog
(6,899 posts)Smears would be false accusations. Bernie is a self proclaimed socialist, so calling him a socialist is not a smear.
mhatrw
(10,786 posts)99th_Monkey
(19,326 posts)as being 'unelectable' ... like Hillary would have a cake-walk in the GE.
Of course they know better, but they're doing it anyway, because their owners
are telling them to do that.
I think it's foolish and despicable.
cannabis_flower
(3,764 posts)Live and Learn
(12,769 posts)beam me up scottie
(57,349 posts)Live and Learn
(12,769 posts)mhatrw
(10,786 posts)in_cog_ni_to
(41,600 posts)kibbutz. Do they honestly believe, after WWII, a radical, pro Russia, Stalinist kibbutz would remain/be allowed in Israel? Really? Do they?
The GOP needs Israel for its Rapture. They are not going to even go close to Israel/Judaism. They won't touch the subject! And they certainly won't be displaying any Antisemitism like we constantly witness on DU...and HillaryClintonSupporters.com.
PEACE
LOVE
BERNIE
Matariki
(18,775 posts)restorefreedom
(12,655 posts)and banging the war drums for iran is perfectly acceptable, while the lies about bernie roll on........
Kang Colby
(1,941 posts)is that he won't be the nominee in the first place. He has no chance after New Hampshire. None.
HRC 2016.
Odin2005
(53,521 posts)MisterP
(23,730 posts)Tierra_y_Libertad
(50,414 posts)But, it's the same tired old song of fear and still used by the "not as bad" wing of the party.
azurnoir
(45,850 posts)Tierra_y_Libertad
(50,414 posts)A spirit of national masochism prevails, encouraged by an effete corps of impudent snobs who characterize themselves as intellectuals.
Some of the politicians in this country, in their feverish search for group acceptance, are ready to endorse tumultuous confrontation as a substitute for debate, and the most illogical and unfitting extensions of the Bill of Rights as protections for psychotic and criminal elements in our society. We have seen all too clearly that there are men now in power in this country who do not represent authority, who cannot cope with tradition, and who believe that the people of America are ready to support revolution as long as it is done with a cultured voice and a handsome profile.
A spirit of national masochism prevails, encouraged by an effete corps of impudent snobs who characterize themselves as intellectuals.
HubertHeaver
(2,520 posts)Who was his speechwriter?
Odin2005
(53,521 posts)HubertHeaver
(2,520 posts)MisterP
(23,730 posts)since she is one, and Sanders is white cis scum, or that critics of WalMart are racist
00s and 10s politics are gonna produce a goddamn library of analyses when we're done with them
Odin2005
(53,521 posts)Wonderful company the Bernie Bashers have.
elljay
(1,178 posts)Anyone who tries to demonize volunteering at a kibbutz is going to greatly irritate the Jewish community, because many of us have spent time on kibbutzim, or have friends or family who live(d) on one. The kibbutz movement may be in decline, but it is an important and well-respected part of Jewish and Israeli history. This is not the way for a Democrat to win in states like NY, NJ or FL and I can guarantee that Sheldon Adelson and Paul "The Vulture" Singer will be equally upset with any Republican who jumps on this bandwagon. Not a winning issue for any candidate, IMHO
KingCharlemagne
(7,908 posts)capitalism from itself and the latter was about as Cold War hawkish as you could possible get (before taking office).
jalan48
(13,842 posts)hifiguy
(33,688 posts)But it's not gonna stop. It will only get worse. It's all they got and they're getting really scared. Like cornered rats.
Ed Suspicious
(8,879 posts)all the decent people?
TIME TO PANIC
(1,894 posts)Chico Man
(3,001 posts)And she is voting for Hillary
We generally think Bernie is a one trick pony. Not much you can do to convince us otherwise.
Kokonoe
(2,485 posts)It's the establishment calling for their worst nightmares.
It can't happen soon enough.
NurseJackie
(42,862 posts)merrily
(45,251 posts)winter is coming
(11,785 posts)I'm sure it's not intentional.
merrily
(45,251 posts)Gasp! Muslin from Africa! Gasp! Reverend Wright! Gasp!
m-lekktor
(3,675 posts)Right wing wackos aren't just republicans!
JackBeck
(12,359 posts)I honestly didn't know if I would be back to DU unless I saw some pushback to that antisemitic nonsense. So, thank you, Odin, for brining this to light in a larger forum.
I find it difficult to invest much time in getting outraged enough to post about anything around here anymore, since there is way too much work to do in the real world to actually move a progressive agenda forward in order to change the world.
Some folks just have too much damn time on their hands and if they invested as much time in the real world as they do on an anonymous message board they might actually see the change they so "passionately" desire when posting online.
beam me up scottie
(57,349 posts)You're saying they posted it in their group too?
I thought it was supposed to be the Hillary Clinton group, not the anti-Bernie Sanders group?
JackBeck
(12,359 posts)To be honest, I trashed that group a long time ago, but peek in every now and then for a good laugh.
Do they honestly think that posting in that group or on that other site with very minimal traffic/posts/thread views is going to get HRC elected?
JackBeck
(12,359 posts)I guess the group hosts are too busy elsewhere to notice.
beam me up scottie
(57,349 posts)They clammed up about it though until today when they thought they dug up some dirt on Bernie.
Unfortunately they're the ones who ended up looking dirty.
JackBeck
(12,359 posts)beam me up scottie
(57,349 posts)Nobody tell them, it's better to let them figure it out in their own.
YoungDemCA
(5,714 posts)Try to find a reputable economist who takes it seriously. Pretty damn hard, and for good reason. It's not the 20th century anymore.
And many of the self-proclaimed democratic socialist's supporters openly call for revolution - which are radical and violent, by definition. Yet I sincerely doubt that those supporters would bear the brunt of a revolution's horrific consequences. No, it would be the most marginalized, vulnerable groups in America. As they always do.
arcane1
(38,613 posts)Maybe there's a bonus in it for you.
YoungDemCA
(5,714 posts)Particularly when you can assign nefarious motives to anyone who doesn't share your view!
arcane1
(38,613 posts)beam me up scottie
(57,349 posts)Like those dirty commie revolutionaries, amirite?:
YoungDemCA
(5,714 posts)Or "the French Revolutionairies had the right idea" posts on DU about?
Let's put it this way...a self-proclaimed socialist calling for a "political revolution" does not look good, regardless of the "nonviolent" qualifier. The campaign ads write themselves. And Bernie is gonna need a lot more than small donors if he honestly is serious about taking on the inevitable Republican onslaught against the Democrats, come the fall.
Iggy Knorr
(247 posts)Because its
1) young
2) Dem
3) from California
QED
AOR
(692 posts)beam me up scottie
(57,349 posts)HooptieWagon
(17,064 posts)AOR
(692 posts)Your posts have evolved in your thinking...either that or an appointment with Dr. Phil is in order.
http://www.democraticunderground.com/10247862
http://www.democraticunderground.com/10247072
http://www.democraticunderground.com/10026095070
http://www.democraticunderground.com/10025756000
http://www.democraticunderground.com/10245853
http://www.democraticunderground.com/10023837049
beam me up scottie
(57,349 posts)Excellent research, kudos.
AOR
(692 posts)I thought I knew this person to be a leftist for a long time elsewhere. I could be mistaken but I doubt it. The poster refuses to engage an explanation. The head games really suck if that's the case. There is no room for that shit in leftist circles from my view at least. Vindictive emotion against liberals for the sake of vindictive emotion solves nothing and it proves nothing. People want to be against liberalism fine. Don't make it a personal vendetta. It was never personal for me.
I haven't been on board with Bernie or the Dem Party as the answer and have been pretty tough in critique on liberalism all over the place including here but at least I'm honest and up front about it and it isn't personal. It's just a divide between liberalism/progessives (capitalist reform) and leftism (anti-capitalism). To be honest a lot of Bernie supporters elsewhere have been pretty marginalizing towards leftists and Marxists but I don't take it personal. Maybe the poster is carrying a grudge against liberals for that reason but head games is not the way to air it out.
Whatever games this poster is playing is not part of any leftist tactics I want to be part of. I think it's laughable. Look through the posters history going back years and you'll get my drift. You don't go from Marxist/leftist to Clinton and Obama supporter while bashing Sanders 24/7. It's one thing to critique Sanders from a leftist analysis. It's utter hypocrisy to use deception to bash Sanders while claiming to support Clinton. None of it makes sense and I mean none of it with this poster.
At this point I don't think the continued leftist critique of Sanders is doing the anti-capitalist left any good whatsoever. Our arguments have already been made. Bernie is what he is. A reformer of capitalism and a liberal with a rough edge. Accept it or not and work with it or not. To totally disregard the energy behind Sanders right now is not something that has any value in my view. Other leftists strongly disagree. I'm willing to see if this movement leads anywhere.
Jack Rabbit
(45,984 posts)It means after he survives what Hillary & Co, Inc., throw at him, the GOP won't have anything left in this Autumn.
hay rick
(7,589 posts)His first question for Hillary included the phrase "self-described socialist." Hillary, of course, failed to correct him. Bernie's actual self-description is always "democratic socialist." If they didn't make or overlook that "mistake" they wouldn't be corporate lackeys in good standing.
redstateblues
(10,565 posts)He didn't start softening it with "Democratic" until he started thinking about running off POTUS. It might help him in the primary. It's an albatross in the GE. Spare me the red baiting crap. It is what it is
Lazy Daisy
(928 posts)is the masses that will be leaving the party because of this. Will be interesting to see how many D's turn into I's after this is over
Odin2005
(53,521 posts)neverforget
(9,436 posts)beam me up scottie
(57,349 posts)neverforget
(9,436 posts)beam me up scottie
(57,349 posts)neverforget
(9,436 posts)beam me up scottie
(57,349 posts)neverforget
(9,436 posts)beam me up scottie
(57,349 posts)neverforget
(9,436 posts)beam me up scottie
(57,349 posts)Odin2005
(53,521 posts)beam me up scottie
(57,349 posts)neverforget
(9,436 posts)Bernblu
(441 posts)Volunteering at a Kibbutz is not a big deal considering most of the kibbutzim were socialist at that time and many still are.