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Odin2005

(53,521 posts)
Fri Feb 5, 2016, 09:11 PM Feb 2016

The red-baiting of Bernie is getting ridiculous.

This whole notion that Bernie being an "OMG SOCIALIST OMG he volunteered at a kibbutz OMG" is going to hurt him in the general election is based on a false premise. The GOP already calls Democrats "communists" and "socialists", Obama is constantly called a Communist despite being a fairly establishment, pro-corporate president. the kind people people scared by the word "socialism" will not be voting Dem anyway.

The Establishment is either chasing after potential Dem voters that don't actually exist, or, more likely, are using that as an excuse for the status quo.

160 replies = new reply since forum marked as read
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The red-baiting of Bernie is getting ridiculous. (Original Post) Odin2005 Feb 2016 OP
So is he green baiting of Clinton uponit7771 Feb 2016 #1
The fuck is green-baiting? Odin2005 Feb 2016 #3
He's green baiting her RoccoR5955 Feb 2016 #16
Whew... MrMickeysMom Feb 2016 #89
green baiting would be accusing somebody of being too environmentalist. Ken Burch Feb 2016 #135
However he can paint her negative he will uponit7771 Feb 2016 #136
what color is "negative"? Ken Burch Feb 2016 #151
Yup pinebox Feb 2016 #2
Good God. Odin2005 Feb 2016 #4
People do and say ridiculous things when they feel desperate. jillan Feb 2016 #9
Wtf is that shit? beam me up scottie Feb 2016 #22
Woooahhh retrowire Feb 2016 #61
What? bvf Feb 2016 #103
Fair and Balanced UnBlinkingEye Feb 2016 #5
Post removed Post removed Feb 2016 #6
People under the age of 40 don't give a shit about the cold war. Odin2005 Feb 2016 #7
I am under 40, and you don't speak for me YoungDemCA Feb 2016 #106
The best way to control the opposition is to lead it ? AOR Feb 2016 #125
Now you are comparing Bernie to Stalin and Mao? Odin2005 Feb 2016 #138
Do you realize that many of the people who founded the state of Israel were socialists? Warren DeMontague Feb 2016 #8
Thank you. People really ought to read some history. Matariki Feb 2016 #86
Either you don't realize Soviet-sympathizers aren't just "socialists" KittyWampus Feb 2016 #90
I suspect I know a whole lot more about kibbutzes than you do. Warren DeMontague Feb 2016 #95
I hear the crazy hair is only there to hide the Gorbechev-like birthmark on his head EmperorHasNoClothes Feb 2016 #18
Are you talking about Bernie or Der Donald? Jack Rabbit Feb 2016 #109
Attack ads against kibbutzes? Are you serious?? jillan Feb 2016 #19
Again with this Soviet flag bullshit? It was from Burlington's sister city in Russia. beam me up scottie Feb 2016 #35
Nobody cares. californiabernin Feb 2016 #51
Eeek!! Too liberal!! Eeek!! Vote for the not-as-bad as a Republican candidate!! Tierra_y_Libertad Feb 2016 #57
Clinton has been in the process of being vetted since 1992, and they're still at it.... George II Feb 2016 #62
Vetted By Whom? billhicks76 Feb 2016 #77
Did you watch the 11 hour Benghazi hearing a few months ago? Vetting means nothing? George II Feb 2016 #134
I Rest My Case billhicks76 Feb 2016 #148
The Communist Party USA endorsed Obama in 2012... AOR Feb 2016 #63
We can never forget what an evil man Bernie is passiveporcupine Feb 2016 #67
The dark side is deep in this one toothless dragon Feb 2016 #74
Sanders' Soviet-sympathizing kibbutz and Soviet flag in his office in Vermont are FACT. AlbertCat Feb 2016 #79
The Soviet Union no longer exists. Is Putin a problem? Yes. But we have to deal with him JDPriestly Feb 2016 #99
Embarrassing. Truly. "Soviet-sympathizing kibbutz"? Wow. myrna minx Feb 2016 #122
My ex- is Chinese. pangaia Feb 2016 #128
It maybe red-baiting ... earthside Feb 2016 #10
You have no idea what the Republicans ... asuhornets Feb 2016 #11
Dooomed! Dooomed i say! Doomed if you nominate that unvetted one term African American senator Warren DeMontague Feb 2016 #12
they called Obama a socialist, too nt grasswire Feb 2016 #15
I guess we have to give up! Odin2005 Feb 2016 #17
"With the funny sounding name! " greiner3 Feb 2016 #69
Needs video. hifiguy Feb 2016 #70
Defeatist horseshit. Odin2005 Feb 2016 #13
Were you even born in the '60s? TBF Feb 2016 #14
I was born in 1986. Odin2005 Feb 2016 #20
Well, maybe it's the other way then - TBF Feb 2016 #25
I was born June 1970... asuhornets Feb 2016 #26
Wow. TBF Feb 2016 #38
You don't know what a Kibbutz is? Warren DeMontague Feb 2016 #72
no asuhornets Feb 2016 #78
I would say that if the Clinton campaign really wants to go that route in attacking him Warren DeMontague Feb 2016 #80
I agree,but asuhornets Feb 2016 #82
fair nuff. Warren DeMontague Feb 2016 #84
Clinton, in contrast, they will welcome with open arms EmperorHasNoClothes Feb 2016 #23
We expect that shit from Republicans not so called liberals. beam me up scottie Feb 2016 #24
Exactly... asuhornets Feb 2016 #29
If you're red baiting you're not a liberal, that's not even up for debate. beam me up scottie Feb 2016 #31
Sanders does not embodies asuhornets Feb 2016 #43
I don't care, there are some things you just don't do to smear a Dem candidate. beam me up scottie Feb 2016 #44
NOBODY "embodies the entire Democratic electorate", so that's just a made-up excuse. n/t arcane1 Feb 2016 #104
So FDR , Truman, JFK, RFK were not liberals? YoungDemCA Feb 2016 #118
What are you on about? Did they red bait on DU too? beam me up scottie Feb 2016 #132
And you don't think Clinton is trying the same thing already? Erich Bloodaxe BSN Feb 2016 #28
I think Sanders is more aware than his supporters. pnwmom Feb 2016 #55
You bolded the line that matters the least. retrowire Feb 2016 #64
You were supposed to gasp and recoil in horror, what happened? beam me up scottie Feb 2016 #73
I-I don't know! The humanity came over me I guess! retrowire Feb 2016 #75
Reverend Wright literally said "God damn America" so you must really HATE anyone close to HIM! arcane1 Feb 2016 #105
Good one! n/t Admiral Loinpresser Feb 2016 #119
Like Barack Hussein Obama lol? billhicks76 Feb 2016 #81
Sanders can handle GOP baloney AlbertCat Feb 2016 #85
Because the Repukes respect Clinton so much, they will surely lay off her n/t eridani Feb 2016 #159
It's stupid but let it out now. In the GE after he wins, it will be old news. Nanjeanne Feb 2016 #21
If he wasn't proclaiming himself as a socialist, Progressive dog Feb 2016 #27
The GOP is going to call the Dems socialists anyway. Odin2005 Feb 2016 #30
They won't have video of any Democrats Progressive dog Feb 2016 #34
People don't care because the GOP has abused the term so much. Odin2005 Feb 2016 #37
The Gallup poll says they do care, Progressive dog Feb 2016 #48
If it is already at 47%.. cannabis_flower Feb 2016 #87
They cannot smear him with his own campaign platform. nt mhatrw Feb 2016 #41
It won't be a smear, it will be truth. Progressive dog Feb 2016 #46
No, it is not. That's why it is great that he embraces the label and gets others to do so as well. mhatrw Feb 2016 #49
They are trying to scare Democratic voters away from Sanders in the Primary 99th_Monkey Feb 2016 #32
And desperate cannabis_flower Feb 2016 #91
Yep, blatant antisemitism that even the GOP wouldn't dare use. Disgusting. nt Live and Learn Feb 2016 #33
It was hidden but not before 6 people rec'd that thread. beam me up scottie Feb 2016 #40
Thank gawd for that at least. Awful. nt Live and Learn Feb 2016 #42
Clinton's most fartful smear to date. nt mhatrw Feb 2016 #36
The GOP loves Israel, remember? They can't attack a kibbutz in Israel because Israel ALLOWED that in_cog_ni_to Feb 2016 #39
The 1950's called. They want their McCarthyism back. Matariki Feb 2016 #45
but hillary paling around with kissinger and bibi restorefreedom Feb 2016 #47
The main thing that will hurt Bernie in the general election... Kang Colby Feb 2016 #50
The newest polls show him tied with Hillary nationally. Odin2005 Feb 2016 #52
Sure. Kang Colby Feb 2016 #53
Red-baiting's only the half of it; maybe they'll bring some intactivists out of the woodwork MisterP Feb 2016 #54
Calling us Reds, Hippies, Commies, is outdated. Now it's "extreme Left" and "Fringe". Tierra_y_Libertad Feb 2016 #56
the new buzz word is "regressive Left" I've seen it used on DU a couple of places recently azurnoir Feb 2016 #59
VP Spiro Agnew was a master of such. Quotes without Red in them are below. Tierra_y_Libertad Feb 2016 #65
And "Nattering nabobs of negativism". HubertHeaver Feb 2016 #98
William Safire. Odin2005 Feb 2016 #143
Thanks HubertHeaver Feb 2016 #153
a term which ironically ALSO covers those "SJWs" that say Clinton's the real feminist candidate MisterP Feb 2016 #76
That is a neo-reactionary term invented by Anti-Feminists and White Supremacists. Odin2005 Feb 2016 #141
Way to Win the Jewish Vote! elljay Feb 2016 #58
They called FDR and JFK 'communist' too, even though the former saved KingCharlemagne Feb 2016 #60
The Centrist/Conservative/80's Moderate Republican/Third Wayers are losing it. jalan48 Feb 2016 #66
Indeed it is. hifiguy Feb 2016 #68
Is he a self described/confirmed socialist? You goddamned right he's a democratic socialist. Aren't Ed Suspicious Feb 2016 #71
That's why I'm voting for him. TIME TO PANIC Feb 2016 #92
My wife volunteered at a kibbutz Chico Man Feb 2016 #83
Shhh.... Kokonoe Feb 2016 #88
Awwww. NurseJackie Feb 2016 #93
"Socialist" is one thing, literally. "Kibbutz" is a twofer dog whistle to anti-Semites. Again. merrily Feb 2016 #94
Funny how that keeps happening. winter is coming Feb 2016 #97
Not as though there is no history of it. merrily Feb 2016 #100
If you don't take it seriously it can be entertaining! m-lekktor Feb 2016 #96
When I saw the thread about the kibbutz posted in the HRC group JackBeck Feb 2016 #101
At least the thread in GDP was hidden but not before 6 people rec'd it. beam me up scottie Feb 2016 #111
Yes, it was posted this morning. JackBeck Feb 2016 #115
I stand corrected. It was bumped up this afternoon. Posted back on January 22. JackBeck Feb 2016 #120
Yes, that's when they started pushing this conspiracy theory. beam me up scottie Feb 2016 #123
We should feel blessed being among such intellectual giants. n/t JackBeck Feb 2016 #124
Yep, they're clutching their pearls over a SOCIALIST kibbutz. beam me up scottie Feb 2016 #126
Socialism is a discredited ideology YoungDemCA Feb 2016 #102
Cool story. arcane1 Feb 2016 #108
Poisoning the well is fun! YoungDemCA Feb 2016 #110
Exactly. Like assigning violent motives to anyone who doesn't share your view. arcane1 Feb 2016 #112
It must be, you're very good at it. beam me up scottie Feb 2016 #113
Then what are all those "Wall Street needs to meet the pitchforks" YoungDemCA Feb 2016 #117
I for one believe it! Iggy Knorr Feb 2016 #121
Yep... sombody hijacked your account... AOR Feb 2016 #127
That has to be the explanation. beam me up scottie Feb 2016 #133
Yep, Sweden is such a violent failure. HooptieWagon Feb 2016 #130
You say --" Socialism is a discredited ideology " AOR Feb 2016 #131
Wow, what is going on there? What happened to that poster? beam me up scottie Feb 2016 #137
Beats the hell out of me... AOR Feb 2016 #157
I, for one, welcome it Jack Rabbit Feb 2016 #107
Chris Cuomo... hay rick Feb 2016 #114
Bernie has called himself a socialist many times. redstateblues Feb 2016 #129
What they don't see coming Lazy Daisy Feb 2016 #116
I've been an I for many years now. Odin2005 Feb 2016 #154
Comrades of the Proletariat Unite! neverforget Feb 2016 #139
Greetings comrade! beam me up scottie Feb 2016 #140
Greetings Comrade bmus! neverforget Feb 2016 #142
I must get back to work... beam me up scottie Feb 2016 #144
Here's my ride neverforget Feb 2016 #145
I have to go home too, where beam me up scottie Feb 2016 #146
When i get to work in my commie car, this greets me neverforget Feb 2016 #147
At least you can work with others beam me up scottie Feb 2016 #149
Obey the Kitty! neverforget Feb 2016 #150
What's black and white and red all over? beam me up scottie Feb 2016 #152
OMG these memes! Odin2005 Feb 2016 #155
We knew this was coming so we stocked up! beam me up scottie Feb 2016 #156
Communist panda! neverforget Feb 2016 #158
I heard that Ronald Reagan and Lucille Ball were communists in their youths. Bernblu Feb 2016 #160

Response to Odin2005 (Original post)

Odin2005

(53,521 posts)
7. People under the age of 40 don't give a shit about the cold war.
Fri Feb 5, 2016, 09:20 PM
Feb 2016

And people over 40 need to get the fuck over it.

 

YoungDemCA

(5,714 posts)
106. I am under 40, and you don't speak for me
Fri Feb 5, 2016, 11:51 PM
Feb 2016

Do you have any idea of what Stalin, Mao, Castro, and other "defenders of the working class" did? Do you know how many millions of people were slaughtered in the name of the Glorious Socialist/Communist Revolution?

More and more people have forgotten. Try speaking to someone who lived under the Iron Curtain. You may just find how dangerously close to having a morally indefensible position you are.

 

AOR

(692 posts)
125. The best way to control the opposition is to lead it ?
Sat Feb 6, 2016, 12:44 AM
Feb 2016

That's the only logical thing that comes to mind... or that has to be satire... or someone really did hijack your account...

Warren DeMontague

(80,708 posts)
8. Do you realize that many of the people who founded the state of Israel were socialists?
Fri Feb 5, 2016, 09:21 PM
Feb 2016

Kibbutzim by definition were socialist enterprises. That was the idea.

So Hillary's gonna run full tilt against Israel, eh?

 

KittyWampus

(55,894 posts)
90. Either you don't realize Soviet-sympathizers aren't just "socialists"
Fri Feb 5, 2016, 11:15 PM
Feb 2016

or you are just pretending (the polite way to characterize your post)

Warren DeMontague

(80,708 posts)
95. I suspect I know a whole lot more about kibbutzes than you do.
Fri Feb 5, 2016, 11:25 PM
Feb 2016

But again, if Hillary's supporters really want to run on this, go right ahead.

jillan

(39,451 posts)
19. Attack ads against kibbutzes? Are you serious??
Fri Feb 5, 2016, 09:29 PM
Feb 2016

People living together and helping one another is now a bad thing?

Maybe they will run attack ads of the soviet flag is Bernie is the nominee but if Hillary is the nom, don't be surprised to see the flag of Libya.
Hillary is not very well liked or respected by the gop & the fact that her supporters think that she will not get attacked is laughable. Not to mention that you think she will get anything done. I guarantee they will start screaming impeachment on day one if she is the nominee. Her baggage isn't going anywhere.

beam me up scottie

(57,349 posts)
35. Again with this Soviet flag bullshit? It was from Burlington's sister city in Russia.
Fri Feb 5, 2016, 09:46 PM
Feb 2016
Soviet flag

Sanders hung the Soviet flag in the mayoral office in Burlington, in honor the city's Soviet sister city Yaroslav.

http://www.keywiki.org/Bernie_Sanders

 

californiabernin

(421 posts)
51. Nobody cares.
Fri Feb 5, 2016, 10:05 PM
Feb 2016

Seriously, if they try and use this it would just backfire as ridiculous negative political attacks.

It's 2016, you know?

George II

(67,782 posts)
62. Clinton has been in the process of being vetted since 1992, and they're still at it....
Fri Feb 5, 2016, 10:17 PM
Feb 2016

Must really irk people that even after 24+ years of being vetted she's still standing tall and is the Democratic Party's leading candidate for President.

 

billhicks76

(5,082 posts)
77. Vetted By Whom?
Fri Feb 5, 2016, 10:49 PM
Feb 2016

It means nothing these days. The real news squeaks through the cracks now because of alternative media like DU. Vet her Iraq War vote. You're fighting history in the making here.

George II

(67,782 posts)
134. Did you watch the 11 hour Benghazi hearing a few months ago? Vetting means nothing?
Sat Feb 6, 2016, 01:55 AM
Feb 2016

The vote you refer to took place 13 years ago. Give it a rest. Remember, Sanders voted for many more war funding bills than Clinton did. And please don't give us the right wing "we had to support our troops" spiel. If he didn't vote to fund the war our troops would have be withdrawn immediately.

Finally, no - I'm not "fighting history in the making here" - history WILL be made, we will finally have a woman elected President.

 

AOR

(692 posts)
63. The Communist Party USA endorsed Obama in 2012...
Fri Feb 5, 2016, 10:22 PM
Feb 2016

did Obama lose the election ?

Of course that says a lot about the current state of the CPUSA from a leftist perspective, but that's neither here nor there in regards to your post.

passiveporcupine

(8,175 posts)
67. We can never forget what an evil man Bernie is
Fri Feb 5, 2016, 10:32 PM
Feb 2016
After college, Sanders lived briefly in an Israeli kibbutz known as Kibbutz Sha'ar Ha'amakim (KSH), which was co-founded by Aharon Cohen, an Arabist who was a harsh critic of Israeli policy and was arrested for spying for the Soviet Union in the 1950s. Sanders stayed at KSH as a guest of the Zionist-Marxist youth movement Hashomer Hatzair (HH), which pledged its allegiance to the Soviet Union; some left-wing groups described HH as Leninist and even Stalinist. HH made it plain that its cooperation with Zionists was a temporary expedient designed to help pave the way for a socialist revolution; that it viewed Israel's independence as a transitional phase in the development of a bi-national socialist state which would ultimately end Israel's existence as a Jewish entity.


http://www.discoverthenetworks.org/individualProfile.asp?indid=2266

Sanders created some controversy when he hung a Soviet flag in his mayoral office, in honor of Burlington's Soviet sister city, Yaroslavl, located some 160 miles northeast of Moscow.



According to an Accuracy In Media report, Sanders during the 1980s "collaborated with Soviet and East German 'peace committees'" whose aim was "to stop President Reagan’s deployment of nuclear missiles in Europe.” Indeed, he “openly joined the Soviets’ 'nuclear freeze' campaign to undercut Reagan’s military build-up.”



In an August 8, 1985 interview on a Vermont government-access television station, Sanders discussed his recent trip to Nicaragua and drew parallels between the Castro and Ortega regimes. "In 1961," he said, "[America] invaded Cuba, and everybody was totally convinced that Castro was the worst guy in the world, that all the Cuban people were going to rise up in rebellion against Fidel Castro. They forgot that he educated the kids, gave them health care, totally transformed the society. You know, not to say Fidel Castro and Cuba are perfect -- they are certainly not -- but just because Ronald Reagan dislikes these people does not mean to say that the people in their own nations feel the same way.


I think I need to start self flagellation for being so wrong to support Bernie



 

toothless dragon

(51 posts)
74. The dark side is deep in this one
Fri Feb 5, 2016, 10:44 PM
Feb 2016

its called ignorance... Thomas Jefferson had a Koran... I guess that make him a Muslim... Socialism is the natural state of humanity and the archaeological record proves that fact... we are supposed to take care of each other..

 

AlbertCat

(17,505 posts)
79. Sanders' Soviet-sympathizing kibbutz and Soviet flag in his office in Vermont are FACT.
Fri Feb 5, 2016, 10:50 PM
Feb 2016

The kibbutz was "Soviet-sympathizing" in the 1930's

and the flag in his office was for Burlington's Soviet sister city.


These are facts. You've only got truthiness.

JDPriestly

(57,936 posts)
99. The Soviet Union no longer exists. Is Putin a problem? Yes. But we have to deal with him
Fri Feb 5, 2016, 11:35 PM
Feb 2016

and try not to make things worse than he already is.

Until very recently, Southern capitols hung out the flag of the Rebels. That is totally unpatriotic and horrible. The flag of slave-states.

We never heard a lot of complaints about that.

At one time, Burlington Vermont was the sister city of the following cities:

Sister Cities

Bethlehem and Arad

Burlington, Ontario, Canada

Honfleur, France

Moss Point, Mississippi

Nishinomiya, Japan

Puerto Cabezas, Nicaragua

Yaroslavl, Russia

Sister Lakes

https://www.burlingtonvt.gov/Mayor/Sister-Cities

Now please be shocked!

Burlington Vermont is the sister city of a city in Russia. Has been since 1988 when the Berlin wall fell.

A Soviet flag is a historic thing. The Soviets are no longer in charge in Russia.

pangaia

(24,324 posts)
128. My ex- is Chinese.
Sat Feb 6, 2016, 12:53 AM
Feb 2016

I have 2 small flags outside my front door. One of them is the Chinese flag.
Am I a RED COMMIE !!!!!


earthside

(6,960 posts)
10. It maybe red-baiting ...
Fri Feb 5, 2016, 09:23 PM
Feb 2016

... but that's okay.

I'm not going to be like the Hillarians and whine and weep because someone is attacking Sen. Sanders.

If (when) Sen. Sanders gets the Democratic nomination to be the party's candidate for President, we are going to hear all of these kinds of charges from the Repuglicans. I say, bring 'em on now so that we are toughened-up and ready to go.

The Sanders' campaign is about boldness and optimism; it is about stepping bravely into a progressive future.

Do your worst, Hillarians -- Americans need help and Sanders and his campaign are ready!

asuhornets

(2,405 posts)
11. You have no idea what the Republicans ...
Fri Feb 5, 2016, 09:23 PM
Feb 2016

are going to do to him if he is the Democratic nominee, and apparently neither does Sanders. A $200 million right wing apparatus will turn him into a cartoon character. Hillary knows what that is like. And it will hurt him in the general election.

Warren DeMontague

(80,708 posts)
12. Dooomed! Dooomed i say! Doomed if you nominate that unvetted one term African American senator
Fri Feb 5, 2016, 09:25 PM
Feb 2016

With the funny sounding name!


Dooomed!

Odin2005

(53,521 posts)
17. I guess we have to give up!
Fri Feb 5, 2016, 09:29 PM
Feb 2016

I guess I'll stop caring and go start some self-sufficient commune in the middle of nowhere because we can't change anything, it's all hopeless and we just have to let Capitalism destroy the world.

TBF

(32,016 posts)
14. Were you even born in the '60s?
Fri Feb 5, 2016, 09:27 PM
Feb 2016

A self-proclaimed socialist (who happens to be Jewish) was at a Kibbutz in Israel for a few months. STop the PResseS!!!!!

TBF

(32,016 posts)
25. Well, maybe it's the other way then -
Fri Feb 5, 2016, 09:37 PM
Feb 2016

maybe my correspondent thinks we're still fighting the cold war.

Man, it is exhausting today.

asuhornets

(2,405 posts)
26. I was born June 1970...
Fri Feb 5, 2016, 09:37 PM
Feb 2016

And? I don't care anything Kibbutz. Whatever the hell that is. When were u born?

TBF

(32,016 posts)
38. Wow.
Fri Feb 5, 2016, 09:47 PM
Feb 2016

I was born in the 60s and I'm Jewish.

We're going to start simply with wikipedia: A kibbutz (Hebrew: קִבּוּץ / קיבוץ, lit. "gathering, clustering"; plural kibbutzim) is a collective community in Israel that was traditionally based on agriculture. The first kibbutz, established in 1909, was Degania.[1] Today, farming has been partly supplanted by other economic branches, including industrial plants and high-tech enterprises.[2] Kibbutzim began as utopian communities, a combination of socialism and Zionism.[3] In recent decades, some kibbutzim have been privatized and changes have been made in the communal lifestyle. A member of a kibbutz is called a kibbutznik (Hebrew: קִבּוּצְנִיק https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kibbutz

Interestingly they've become more privatized, as has Bernie for that matter.

The point is that in the 60s it was not at all unusual to spend time on the Kibbutz - many Americans did just that for a few years after college etc. It was a very idealistic time. I'd be more surprised if Bernie hadn't spent time there given his leftist positions.

As others have already told you, the republicans are so out of touch that they think Obama is a communist. In fact they think liberal and communist are interchangeable terms. These are not bright folks we are dealing with. They will red-bait Hillary as well eventually - when they get tired of rehashing all the Arkansas stuff (and that can keep them busy for years). This is not a reason to walk away from Bernie. As you saw in the debate last night he is incredibly bright and calm. He is proud of his status as a democratic socialist and has never hid it. Maybe folks (including here on DU) will finally learn what the words capitalist, socialist, and communist really mean if he is our candidate. And they will hear much better ideas than they would from his competition - who will just keep selling out to the highest bidder.

Warren DeMontague

(80,708 posts)
80. I would say that if the Clinton campaign really wants to go that route in attacking him
Fri Feb 5, 2016, 10:50 PM
Feb 2016

she can kiss goodbye to the quite substantial Jewish Democratic vote.

EmperorHasNoClothes

(4,797 posts)
23. Clinton, in contrast, they will welcome with open arms
Fri Feb 5, 2016, 09:32 PM
Feb 2016

No attacks for her - they'll probably hold parties for her!

asuhornets

(2,405 posts)
29. Exactly...
Fri Feb 5, 2016, 09:40 PM
Feb 2016

I expect that from Republicans and not so called liberals as well. You don't get to decide if I am a liberal or not.

beam me up scottie

(57,349 posts)
44. I don't care, there are some things you just don't do to smear a Dem candidate.
Fri Feb 5, 2016, 09:50 PM
Feb 2016

Red baiting, anti-Semitism and any other kind of slurs should be off limits.

beam me up scottie

(57,349 posts)
132. What are you on about? Did they red bait on DU too?
Sat Feb 6, 2016, 01:27 AM
Feb 2016
And many of the self-proclaimed democratic socialist's supporters openly call for revolution - which are radical and violent, by definition. Yet I sincerely doubt that those supporters would bear the brunt of a revolution's horrific consequences. No, it would be the most marginalized, vulnerable groups in America. As they always do.


Do you have any idea how cray cray you sound?

Armed revolutionaries, iron curtain, violent overthrow of the government, etc when referring to Bernie's supporters?


Erich Bloodaxe BSN

(14,733 posts)
28. And you don't think Clinton is trying the same thing already?
Fri Feb 5, 2016, 09:39 PM
Feb 2016

Look, the Repubs who are ready to buy into that claptrap aren't ever going to vote for either Bernie or Hillary anyway. So who really gives a rat's rear end about their dreaded 'apparatus'?

pnwmom

(108,959 posts)
55. I think Sanders is more aware than his supporters.
Fri Feb 5, 2016, 10:08 PM
Feb 2016

Reporters have had to dig to learn which kibbutz he volunteered at, but it was reported in a NYTimes story today

http://forward.com/news/320344/my-quixotic-hunt-for-bernie-sanders-kibbutz/

Depending on the writer, this detail might speak to Sanders’s Jewish identity, his stance on Israel, or his socialist values. Were any or all of these honed in the communal agrarian idyll of 1960s Israel? No reporter or analyst has been able to fully address this question because no one has been able to pin down which kibbutz Sanders volunteered at for several months in 1964, after his graduation from the University of Chicago. Including me.

On my part, it’s not for lack of trying. Not even his brother, Larry Sanders, knows, despite the fact that he himself volunteered at two kibbutzim in Israel — Matsuva in the North and Yotvata in the South — and even met his first wife in Israel. Larry Sanders never visited Bernie Sanders on the kibbutz, but he said that it was a formative experience for his brother.

SNIP

The name of Sanders’s kibbutz might seem like a minor detail, but it’s important. Among other things, it could build on our understanding of his formative years before he became a populist firebrand filling stadiums across America as Hillary Rodham Clinton’s main challenger in the Democratic primary race. Was it one of the hard-left kibbutzim of that era affiliated with the Marxist political party Mapam? Or was it one of the more moderate socialist communities affiliated with the ruling Mapai party?

http://www.nytimes.com/2016/02/06/us/politics/bernie-sanders-kibbutz.html?action=click&contentCollection=us&module=NextInCollection

Senator Bernie Sanders volunteered on an Israeli kibbutz in the 1960s, but he has always been vague about the specific location. Now, the mystery about the Democratic presidential candidate’s past appears to have been solved, in the archives of the Israeli newspaper Haaretz.

Yossi Melman, a longtime Haaretz writer, remembers an interview he did with Mr. Sanders in 1990, the year he was elected to represent Vermont in the House. Haaretz dug up that clip, in which Mr. Sanders said he had spent several months in 1963 working on Kibbutz Sha’ar Ha’amakim, near Haifa in northern Israel, as a guest of the Hashomer Hatzair youth movement.

SNIP

Mr. Ely said that on Sha’ar Ha’amakim, “you care about your brother or your neighbor or whoever it is.” The kibbutz was founded in Romania in 1929 and established in pre-state Israel in 1935. It saw the Soviet Union as a model, and often flew the red flag at outdoor events. Volunteers like Mr. Sanders would have internalized a political imperative to improve the lot of other, Mr. Ely said.

retrowire

(10,345 posts)
64. You bolded the line that matters the least.
Fri Feb 5, 2016, 10:24 PM
Feb 2016

This one is better.

"you care about your brother or your neighbor or whoever it is.”

There. Neat.

retrowire

(10,345 posts)
75. I-I don't know! The humanity came over me I guess!
Fri Feb 5, 2016, 10:45 PM
Feb 2016

I saw kindness and unity and... Gah! It was horrible! Can we just go bomb some people already!? I'm losing my mind here!!!

<Sarcasm> lol

 

arcane1

(38,613 posts)
105. Reverend Wright literally said "God damn America" so you must really HATE anyone close to HIM!
Fri Feb 5, 2016, 11:51 PM
Feb 2016

And of course, that heresy killed Obama's chances at being elected president, right?

 

billhicks76

(5,082 posts)
81. Like Barack Hussein Obama lol?
Fri Feb 5, 2016, 10:52 PM
Feb 2016

Hillary aided republicans by publishing photos of Obama in a turban. I think Bernie will do just fine. The demographics have changed. FOX Noise is loud but outnumbered.

 

AlbertCat

(17,505 posts)
85. Sanders can handle GOP baloney
Fri Feb 5, 2016, 10:57 PM
Feb 2016

.... as easily as he handles Hillary's.


We're all so tired of the "be afraid!" meme.

Progressive dog

(6,899 posts)
27. If he wasn't proclaiming himself as a socialist,
Fri Feb 5, 2016, 09:39 PM
Feb 2016

no one would care.

"
More than nine in 10 would vote for a Catholic, black, or woman
Ninety-one percent would vote for a Jewish or Hispanic candidate
Americans show most bias toward socialists (47%), atheists (58%)"
http://www.gallup.com/poll/183713/socialist-presidential-candidates-least-appealing.aspx

cannabis_flower

(3,764 posts)
87. If it is already at 47%..
Fri Feb 5, 2016, 11:08 PM
Feb 2016

then it might be possible to get that up some by education. Anyone who would vote for a socialist would not vote for anyone in the clown car.

Progressive dog

(6,899 posts)
46. It won't be a smear, it will be truth.
Fri Feb 5, 2016, 09:53 PM
Feb 2016

Smears would be false accusations. Bernie is a self proclaimed socialist, so calling him a socialist is not a smear.

 

99th_Monkey

(19,326 posts)
32. They are trying to scare Democratic voters away from Sanders in the Primary
Fri Feb 5, 2016, 09:41 PM
Feb 2016

as being 'unelectable' ... like Hillary would have a cake-walk in the GE.

Of course they know better, but they're doing it anyway, because their owners
are telling them to do that.

I think it's foolish and despicable.

in_cog_ni_to

(41,600 posts)
39. The GOP loves Israel, remember? They can't attack a kibbutz in Israel because Israel ALLOWED that
Fri Feb 5, 2016, 09:47 PM
Feb 2016

kibbutz. Do they honestly believe, after WWII, a radical, pro Russia, Stalinist kibbutz would remain/be allowed in Israel? Really? Do they?

The GOP needs Israel for its Rapture. They are not going to even go close to Israel/Judaism. They won't touch the subject! And they certainly won't be displaying any Antisemitism like we constantly witness on DU...and HillaryClintonSupporters.com.

PEACE
LOVE
BERNIE

restorefreedom

(12,655 posts)
47. but hillary paling around with kissinger and bibi
Fri Feb 5, 2016, 09:54 PM
Feb 2016

and banging the war drums for iran is perfectly acceptable, while the lies about bernie roll on........

 

Kang Colby

(1,941 posts)
50. The main thing that will hurt Bernie in the general election...
Fri Feb 5, 2016, 10:04 PM
Feb 2016

is that he won't be the nominee in the first place. He has no chance after New Hampshire. None.


HRC 2016.

 

Tierra_y_Libertad

(50,414 posts)
56. Calling us Reds, Hippies, Commies, is outdated. Now it's "extreme Left" and "Fringe".
Fri Feb 5, 2016, 10:09 PM
Feb 2016

But, it's the same tired old song of fear and still used by the "not as bad" wing of the party.

 

Tierra_y_Libertad

(50,414 posts)
65. VP Spiro Agnew was a master of such. Quotes without Red in them are below.
Fri Feb 5, 2016, 10:31 PM
Feb 2016
Ultraliberalism today translates into a whimpering isolationism in foreign policy, a mulish obstructionism in domestic policy, and a pusillanimous pussyfooting on the critical issue of law and order.

A spirit of national masochism prevails, encouraged by an effete corps of impudent snobs who characterize themselves as intellectuals.

Some of the politicians in this country, in their feverish search for group acceptance, are ready to endorse tumultuous confrontation as a substitute for debate, and the most illogical and unfitting extensions of the Bill of Rights as protections for psychotic and criminal elements in our society. We have seen all too clearly that there are men now in power in this country who do not represent authority, who cannot cope with tradition, and who believe that the people of America are ready to support revolution as long as it is done with a cultured voice and a handsome profile.

A spirit of national masochism prevails, encouraged by an effete corps of impudent snobs who characterize themselves as intellectuals.

MisterP

(23,730 posts)
76. a term which ironically ALSO covers those "SJWs" that say Clinton's the real feminist candidate
Fri Feb 5, 2016, 10:46 PM
Feb 2016

since she is one, and Sanders is white cis scum, or that critics of WalMart are racist

00s and 10s politics are gonna produce a goddamn library of analyses when we're done with them

Odin2005

(53,521 posts)
141. That is a neo-reactionary term invented by Anti-Feminists and White Supremacists.
Sat Feb 6, 2016, 02:30 AM
Feb 2016

Wonderful company the Bernie Bashers have.

elljay

(1,178 posts)
58. Way to Win the Jewish Vote!
Fri Feb 5, 2016, 10:12 PM
Feb 2016

Anyone who tries to demonize volunteering at a kibbutz is going to greatly irritate the Jewish community, because many of us have spent time on kibbutzim, or have friends or family who live(d) on one. The kibbutz movement may be in decline, but it is an important and well-respected part of Jewish and Israeli history. This is not the way for a Democrat to win in states like NY, NJ or FL and I can guarantee that Sheldon Adelson and Paul "The Vulture" Singer will be equally upset with any Republican who jumps on this bandwagon. Not a winning issue for any candidate, IMHO

 

KingCharlemagne

(7,908 posts)
60. They called FDR and JFK 'communist' too, even though the former saved
Fri Feb 5, 2016, 10:16 PM
Feb 2016

capitalism from itself and the latter was about as Cold War hawkish as you could possible get (before taking office).

 

hifiguy

(33,688 posts)
68. Indeed it is.
Fri Feb 5, 2016, 10:35 PM
Feb 2016

But it's not gonna stop. It will only get worse. It's all they got and they're getting really scared. Like cornered rats.

Ed Suspicious

(8,879 posts)
71. Is he a self described/confirmed socialist? You goddamned right he's a democratic socialist. Aren't
Fri Feb 5, 2016, 10:38 PM
Feb 2016

all the decent people?

Chico Man

(3,001 posts)
83. My wife volunteered at a kibbutz
Fri Feb 5, 2016, 10:54 PM
Feb 2016

And she is voting for Hillary

We generally think Bernie is a one trick pony. Not much you can do to convince us otherwise.

JackBeck

(12,359 posts)
101. When I saw the thread about the kibbutz posted in the HRC group
Fri Feb 5, 2016, 11:37 PM
Feb 2016

I honestly didn't know if I would be back to DU unless I saw some pushback to that antisemitic nonsense. So, thank you, Odin, for brining this to light in a larger forum.

I find it difficult to invest much time in getting outraged enough to post about anything around here anymore, since there is way too much work to do in the real world to actually move a progressive agenda forward in order to change the world.

Some folks just have too much damn time on their hands and if they invested as much time in the real world as they do on an anonymous message board they might actually see the change they so "passionately" desire when posting online.

beam me up scottie

(57,349 posts)
111. At least the thread in GDP was hidden but not before 6 people rec'd it.
Fri Feb 5, 2016, 11:57 PM
Feb 2016

You're saying they posted it in their group too?

I thought it was supposed to be the Hillary Clinton group, not the anti-Bernie Sanders group?

JackBeck

(12,359 posts)
115. Yes, it was posted this morning.
Sat Feb 6, 2016, 12:04 AM
Feb 2016

To be honest, I trashed that group a long time ago, but peek in every now and then for a good laugh.

Do they honestly think that posting in that group or on that other site with very minimal traffic/posts/thread views is going to get HRC elected?

JackBeck

(12,359 posts)
120. I stand corrected. It was bumped up this afternoon. Posted back on January 22.
Sat Feb 6, 2016, 12:37 AM
Feb 2016

I guess the group hosts are too busy elsewhere to notice.

beam me up scottie

(57,349 posts)
123. Yes, that's when they started pushing this conspiracy theory.
Sat Feb 6, 2016, 12:40 AM
Feb 2016

They clammed up about it though until today when they thought they dug up some dirt on Bernie.

Unfortunately they're the ones who ended up looking dirty.

beam me up scottie

(57,349 posts)
126. Yep, they're clutching their pearls over a SOCIALIST kibbutz.
Sat Feb 6, 2016, 12:45 AM
Feb 2016

Nobody tell them, it's better to let them figure it out in their own.

 

YoungDemCA

(5,714 posts)
102. Socialism is a discredited ideology
Fri Feb 5, 2016, 11:39 PM
Feb 2016

Try to find a reputable economist who takes it seriously. Pretty damn hard, and for good reason. It's not the 20th century anymore.

And many of the self-proclaimed democratic socialist's supporters openly call for revolution - which are radical and violent, by definition. Yet I sincerely doubt that those supporters would bear the brunt of a revolution's horrific consequences. No, it would be the most marginalized, vulnerable groups in America. As they always do.





 

YoungDemCA

(5,714 posts)
110. Poisoning the well is fun!
Fri Feb 5, 2016, 11:56 PM
Feb 2016

Particularly when you can assign nefarious motives to anyone who doesn't share your view!

beam me up scottie

(57,349 posts)
113. It must be, you're very good at it.
Fri Feb 5, 2016, 11:59 PM
Feb 2016
Particularly when you can assign nefarious motives to anyone who doesn't share your view!


Like those dirty commie revolutionaries, amirite?:

many of the self-proclaimed democratic socialist's supporters openly call for revolution - which are radical and violent, by definition

 

YoungDemCA

(5,714 posts)
117. Then what are all those "Wall Street needs to meet the pitchforks"
Sat Feb 6, 2016, 12:22 AM
Feb 2016

Or "the French Revolutionairies had the right idea" posts on DU about?

Let's put it this way...a self-proclaimed socialist calling for a "political revolution" does not look good, regardless of the "nonviolent" qualifier. The campaign ads write themselves. And Bernie is gonna need a lot more than small donors if he honestly is serious about taking on the inevitable Republican onslaught against the Democrats, come the fall.

 

AOR

(692 posts)
157. Beats the hell out of me...
Sat Feb 6, 2016, 03:23 AM
Feb 2016

I thought I knew this person to be a leftist for a long time elsewhere. I could be mistaken but I doubt it. The poster refuses to engage an explanation. The head games really suck if that's the case. There is no room for that shit in leftist circles from my view at least. Vindictive emotion against liberals for the sake of vindictive emotion solves nothing and it proves nothing. People want to be against liberalism fine. Don't make it a personal vendetta. It was never personal for me.

I haven't been on board with Bernie or the Dem Party as the answer and have been pretty tough in critique on liberalism all over the place including here but at least I'm honest and up front about it and it isn't personal. It's just a divide between liberalism/progessives (capitalist reform) and leftism (anti-capitalism). To be honest a lot of Bernie supporters elsewhere have been pretty marginalizing towards leftists and Marxists but I don't take it personal. Maybe the poster is carrying a grudge against liberals for that reason but head games is not the way to air it out.

Whatever games this poster is playing is not part of any leftist tactics I want to be part of. I think it's laughable. Look through the posters history going back years and you'll get my drift. You don't go from Marxist/leftist to Clinton and Obama supporter while bashing Sanders 24/7. It's one thing to critique Sanders from a leftist analysis. It's utter hypocrisy to use deception to bash Sanders while claiming to support Clinton. None of it makes sense and I mean none of it with this poster.

At this point I don't think the continued leftist critique of Sanders is doing the anti-capitalist left any good whatsoever. Our arguments have already been made. Bernie is what he is. A reformer of capitalism and a liberal with a rough edge. Accept it or not and work with it or not. To totally disregard the energy behind Sanders right now is not something that has any value in my view. Other leftists strongly disagree. I'm willing to see if this movement leads anywhere.

Jack Rabbit

(45,984 posts)
107. I, for one, welcome it
Fri Feb 5, 2016, 11:54 PM
Feb 2016

It means after he survives what Hillary & Co, Inc., throw at him, the GOP won't have anything left in this Autumn.

hay rick

(7,589 posts)
114. Chris Cuomo...
Sat Feb 6, 2016, 12:02 AM
Feb 2016

His first question for Hillary included the phrase "self-described socialist." Hillary, of course, failed to correct him. Bernie's actual self-description is always "democratic socialist." If they didn't make or overlook that "mistake" they wouldn't be corporate lackeys in good standing.

redstateblues

(10,565 posts)
129. Bernie has called himself a socialist many times.
Sat Feb 6, 2016, 01:11 AM
Feb 2016

He didn't start softening it with "Democratic" until he started thinking about running off POTUS. It might help him in the primary. It's an albatross in the GE. Spare me the red baiting crap. It is what it is

 

Lazy Daisy

(928 posts)
116. What they don't see coming
Sat Feb 6, 2016, 12:21 AM
Feb 2016

is the masses that will be leaving the party because of this. Will be interesting to see how many D's turn into I's after this is over

Bernblu

(441 posts)
160. I heard that Ronald Reagan and Lucille Ball were communists in their youths.
Sat Feb 6, 2016, 06:31 PM
Feb 2016

Volunteering at a Kibbutz is not a big deal considering most of the kibbutzim were socialist at that time and many still are.

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