Hillary when you get to Flint, take a good look around at the poster city for NAFTA

[ViseGrip]

Yes, do go, and take a good look at what these shitty trade deals do to working Americans and their neighborhoods.

[bigwillq]

1. kick (nt)

[JackInGreen]

2. I wonder if she'll field amy questions about that

NAFTA kind of laid the foundation for Flints economic destruction didn't it?

[Kall]

24. It sure did

[roguevalley]

72. imagine what the tpp will do. thanks obama. no, seriously

[Enthusiast]

74. Yooge plus one!

[Spitfire of ATJ]

63. Michael Moore took a former auto worker from Flint to meet the guy you got his job in Mexico.

[MADem]

3. Bernie, when you head back to Burlington, take a good look at the college your wife has

destroyed....

That's about how much sense your comment makes.

Since you like to toss the sins of the spouse on the candidates, and all....

Turn about IS fair play.

She wasn't POTUS, and Bernie wasn't President of that college.

[Punkingal]

5. She has first lady on her resume....also remember "two for the price of one."

[kath]

8. This.

[MADem]

10. Two for the price of one means each has a "portfolio."

Her portfolio was health care and human rights.

How soon people forget--or maybe they're too young to remember...?

Trying to conflate a candidate and spouse is a dangerous game. Do it, and don't be surprised if there's blowback.

[Punkingal]

12. Tell her that...she brags about her accomplishments as first lady.

[MADem]

21. She had several portfolios, and she executed them superbly.

And thanks for proving my point, albeit unintentionally.


Let's break down your post:

Punkingal
12. Tell her that...she brags about *****>>>>>her accomplishments as first lady<<<<<*****.

Unless "first lady" is a new synonym for POTUS, you're off the mark.

[Punkingal]

39. And you sound like a recording.

[bunnies]

16. No. It means If I buy A and get B free I saved half on each.

Theyre equal. Co-Presidents, remember?

[MADem]

17. No, they aren't. She wasn't on the ballot with Bill.

Articles of impeachment were not delivered to her.


It's more like "If you buy this POTUS, you get this talented, sophisticated, knowledgeable, and very intelligent Special Envoy and ad hoc advisor as a bonus."


It's not a bad thing to have a talented spouse.

[bunnies]

22. She might as well have been on the ballot.

We agree.: Its not a bad thing to have a talented spouse.

[MADem]

25. Wow--what a great pin! Wish I had one of those!

They should make one that says "Elect Bill's wife in 2016!"

[bunnies]

15. Two for the price of one.

The Clintons campaigned on that. You cant ignore that now because its come back to bite her.

[MADem]

18. Go back to post seventeen, and read that. nt

[Lordquinton]

31. These grapes taste sour

[MADem]

33. Yes....the OP should have brought a pie, instead. nt

[Lordquinton]

64. What does it have to do with the OP?

[Armstead]

37. She said recently that she will turn to Bill for economic advice

[MADem]

41. Good. I hope she also turns to him for advice on other issues, too.

He's got in-depth knowledge on a lot of African and Caribbean basin issues. He's no schlump when it comes to a variety of regional concerns. He's smart. People like him. He makes people want to find points of agreement. He will be a very useful--and likely busy--FGOTUS.

[zalinda]

58. Are you serious?

Look what he and the foundation did in Haiti. They built a fucking luxury hotel. That's it.

And, as far as the economy goes he lucked out with the rise of the Internet and easy interest cards. And, I'm sorry I voted for him twice. I never want to see a Clinton in power again.

Z

[Manifestor_of_Light]

77. I do not send money to the Clinton Foundation.

I send it to the Carter Center because I know it will be well spent. They are eliminating parasitic diseases which can be cured with a 50 cent dose of the same heartworm medicine you would give your dog. Horrible crippling diseases that are easily and cheaply cured, but ignored by the developed world because most of the victims are poor Africans. I earned a bachelor's degree in biology. I never took Parasitology but I know these disease are crippling and painful.

[Feeling the Bern]

42. Comparing a university to a trade deal that has destroyed labor, environmental standards

and has enriched the 1%. That's a real reach. Is this all HRC supporters have left?

[MADem]

45. No. Trying to conflate a candidate and their spouse is what the problem is, here.

But I gather that zipped right past you....NAFTA didn't destroy Flint. If you read this thread, you'd learn that.

[Feeling the Bern]

46. Personal attack on my intelligence. HRC would be proud. you're on ignore.

[MADem]

48. Well, that's not true, either.

But you haven't hurt my feelings with your false accusation OR your "ignore" proclamation.

Hope you follow through on the latter!

[hopemountain]

59. where are your links?

people are supposed to believe your say so on this thread?

yes, nafta took the jobs out of detroit and flint was a suburban community benefiting from those jobs. more than half the population of flint had to leave because they no longer had jobs after nafta.

[Lorien]

78. Yes, it is.

Remember: if Bernie gave a speech to Goldmann Sachs, releases the transcripts and gives the fee to charity, it is EXACTLY THE SAME OR WORSE than Hillary taking $675k to give to her own "foundation" and keeping the transcripts hidden. It's Clinton exceptionalism.

[orpupilofnature57]

4. + 1000000000000 !!!!!!!!!!!

Connect the dots NAFTA, Iraq the Bail=out no mention there when she rifles all those " Actions not words " .

[kath]

6. Absolutely true.

And she supports another awful "free trade" bill. Fuck that shit.

[ejbr]

13. No she doesn't

well, not until AFTER the election.

[kath]

14. Oh, okay. I thought it depended on what day of the week it is.

Or the phase of the moon. or something.

(There is a great cartoon out there about Tuesday Hillary vs Wednesday Hillary)

[jillan]

7. Yes! Flint was hit hard by Nafta.

[NorthCarolina]

9. Shows what great government you get when you start negotiations

from a Centrist Position. You ONLY get solutions to the right of that. Every time. By design.

[pa28]

11. Third way Democrats are willing to put a band-aid over the wreckage.

For some reason they're willing to repeat the same policy mistakes like NAFTA that ruined so many communities in the first place.

[ucrdem]

19. The Datsun Bluebird aka 510 hit US showrooms in 1967, 27 years before NAFTA was signed.

NAFTA did not destroy Flint MI.

[MADem]

23. LEMON LAWS were all the rage for a reason...and the lemons, sadly, were coming out of Detroit.

In the seventies, the American auto industry was producing a lot of clunkers that were screwed up pieces of crap--that's why a federal lemon law was passed, and states started passing lemon laws as well because there were just too many issues with vehicles that were pretty reprehensible.

There were problems in the auto industry for a period of time, and a lot of those problems had to do with very poor quality control. The Japanese did a better job of it.


I had a relative who bought a brand new Ford, and the fucking WHEEL came off a week after the purchase. And the dealer got all defensive about it! Started WHINING! It took a legal threat to get them to take responsibility.

My relative, who ALWAYS "bought American," went to European cars and, to this day, has never looked back. Well BEFORE NAFTA, too, might I note.

[bluestateguy]

28. GM had two rounds of major layoffs in 1986 and 1991

before NAFTA, before Clinton.

[Kip Humphrey]

29. NAFTA/CAFTA did not destroy Flint, they buried Flint... at least according to Michael Moore.

[ucrdem]

30. Moore is not the sharpest tool in the shed .

The US auto industry mostly lost market share to Japan and Korea and NAFTA is a trade agreement with Canada and Mexico.

[HooptieWagon]

32. Flint plant was mostly shifted to Mexico.

GM shifted a lot of manufacturing to Mexico and Canada.

[ucrdem]

36. And back, before NAFTA. June 21, 1993: "GM To Move Auto Jobs From Mexico To Michigan"

Monday, June 21, 1993 - Page updated at 12:00 AM
Seattle Times Business Digest

GM To Move Auto Jobs From Mexico To Michigan

General Motors plans to move production of Chevrolet Cavalier and Pontiac Sunbird from Mexico to the United States next year.

That will create about 1,000 jobs at GM's Lansing, Mich., manufacturing complex.

An announcement from GM is expected today.

The small, front-wheel drive Cavalier is GM's best-selling car.

http://community.seattletimes.nwsource.com/archive/?date=19930621&slug=1707571

I think you just suffered a meme malfunction.

[HooptieWagon]

38. Moved to Lansing, not Flint.

Looks like you had a geography malfunction. Watch M Moores Roger and Me for the story of Flint.

[ucrdem]

40. The point is they'd already shifted there and back before NAFTA. Sorry about that meme. nt

[the devil]

50. and back from Canada after "Roger and Me"

The GM van plant in Scarborough Ontario was recognized by the company as the plant that produced the highest quality products. It was the largest employer in Scarborough.

The company shut the plant down and sold the land to the new largest employer in Scarborough...Walmart.

And the van building jobs...well, they went back to Flint.

NAFTA goes both ways.

[HooptieWagon]

51. GM employment went from 80,000 to 8,000.

They were given pink slips. No retraining, no offers to relocate. GM just abandoned the laid off workers.

[Lordquinton]

35. And Moore is back under the bus!

It was great when he praised Clinton for bringing up flint, but now that he criticized her he gets put back.

[intheflow]

68. And yet, Moore is from Flint.

And has been fighting for and writing about Flint for decades. But I'm sure you have a better idea what went down there from your google searches.

[AzDar]

20. K & R

[elmac]

26. Yes & she needs to take a good look at all of MI

jobs are still being flushed south all over the state.

[scottie55]

34. Jobs Are Going To The Race To The Bottom States

Pay no taxes. No other taxes. Move your factory here and get free beer! Free hookers! Free cocaine!

Maybe we should give some company a trillion dollars cash to move their factory to backwater USA! All paid for by raising fees on the poor!

Race to the bottom.

Detroit / Flint won-lost.

[Skwmom]

27. I thought the same thing earlier today. nt

[warrprayer]

43. Kick and rec n/t

[Hoyt]

44. Detroit was doomed the minute people realized foreign cars were better, cheaper, higher mileage, etc

That was long before NAFTA and before cars were made in Mexico.

[MADem]

47. This is the bottom line.

All that EDWARD DEMING approach on the Japanese production lines--we were light years behind on quality control. They had us beat by miles. Their cars worked, they were reliable, shit didn't fall off them...we just failed to innovate, and it cost us.

And by "us" I mean those overfed guys running US car companies (into the ground). They were the ones who feel asleep at the wheel, and they were the ones who screwed the American worker. NAFTA had nothing to do with it.

[SunSeeker]

53. Exactly. I bet most of the people complaining about NAFTA drive foreign cars. nt

[ViseGrip]

55. Sure, just like homeowners who build near the water complain about flood rates.

[oasis]

49. Hill had noting to do with NAFTA, and everything to do with Flint's

rescue. Nobody in that town would buy what you're selling.

[HooptieWagon]

52. She takes credit for Bills presidency.

2 for the price of 1, remember? And she strongly advocated and spoke out in favor of NAFTA. If she's gonna run on Bills record, she's gotta answer for NAFTA. Maybe she'll give a speech in Flint about how wonderful NAFTA has been?

[MADem]

57. She takes credit--as she SHOULD--for HER achievements as First Lady of the United States.

Say, are you saying you want us to "credit" Bernie with his wife Jane's "accomplishments" while serving as President of that college in VT?

You really think that's appropriate?

After all, she served as his CHIEF OF STAFF and as his political advisor--she boasts about it.

So...think it's fair if we conflate them, too?

Hmmm?

[HooptieWagon]

60. Janes not running for president.

If she was, she's unqualified.

[SunSeeker]

54. Racism poisoned Flint, not NAFTA. nt

[amborin]

71. NAFTA decimated Flint's GM auto workers nt

[6chars]

56. A Timeline Of Hillary Clinton's Evolution On Trade

This is a long read, but NPR pulled together this extensive list of her positions and statements since the 1990s. It is not a simple matter of for vs. against.

http://www.npr.org/sections/itsallpolitics/2015/04/21/401123124/a-timeline-of-hillary-clintons-evolution-on-trade

[HooptieWagon]

61. Really should go back further.

On WalMarts BoD at the time they were outsourcing manufacturing to Asian sweatshops abusing pre-teen girls. Union-busting. Could be a good resume for a corporate attorney. Not so good a record trying to sell free trade agreements to American workers.

[Live and Learn]

65. Yes Hill, 'Look Into It' and tell us what you 'Can't Do'. nt

[bvar22]

66. Laughing my ASS off.

This thread actually has people arguing that NAFTA was a GOOD thing for American Workers.
How completely absurd and blind is that????

Look the fuck around.
Ross was Right, but Bill was smooth.

In the 2008 debates, BOTH Hillary and Obama admitted that NAFTA was a mistake, and has been bad for American Workers. Do you people trying to sell NAFTA in this thread disagree with both Obama and Hillary?

[Oilwellian]

67. bvar, when you also see Kissinger touted by the same people...

well, something just ain't right. One thing is certain though, it has a very strong right wing stench about it.

Excellent OP. Hillary should definitely take a good look at the devastation that neocon and neoliberal trade policies have created.

It's in your face time.

K&R

[dana_b]

70. and they wonder why people are laving the Democratic party. n/t

[PotatoChip]

69. Another of America's neoliberal economic sacrifice zones.

And if nothing changes, it'll be coming soon to a neighborhood near you.

[Enthusiast]

73. This is the truth. The conditions in Flint are a result of the trade deals.

I can remember when I had never heard of a Korean car. Now Korean cars are everywhere and the jobs are GONE.

The trade deals did NOTHING for working class Americans. When they told us how wonderful NAFTA would be they were lying to us.

What kind of a sociopath would take all the employment away from America's working class? In my opinion these trade deals were an act of treason. Same for the TPP and TTIP.

[ViseGrip]

75. One of Michael Moore's first movies....on Flint MI - I hope he's gettting well he's in the hospital.

[Ferd Berfel]

76. Point ViseGrip !