2016 Postmortem
Related: About this forumThis a shocking statistic and a huge red light for Clinton
The most important quality for voters in the democratic primary was honesty/trustworthiness. 93% for Bernie, 6% for Hillary.
Jarqui
(10,131 posts)thereismore
(13,326 posts)Ferd Berfel
(3,687 posts)on not damaging Social Security and Medicare. Her web site is using Weasel words on these issues. People are understanding that and waking up.
Feeling the Bern
(3,839 posts)Duckfan
(1,268 posts)Did anyone see the coverage on CNN? Ol' Wolffy put up a graphic of how Bernie did with women voters.
I couldn't believe it. Don't remember if it was in 50-percentile, or 60. But is was significant.
Fawke Em
(11,366 posts)So much for, "Vote With Your Vagina" politics.
tazkcmo
(7,304 posts)It happens. Watch the GOP suffer the same fate.
Jarqui
(10,131 posts)MrMickeysMom
(20,453 posts)navarth
(5,927 posts)Ben Jealous, the former head of the NAACP endorsed Bernie last week.
BTW Mom, I love that kitty gif where he slides his nose right at the camera. Is that Mr. Mickey?
And also, if I'm not being inappropriate: are you ok? I know it's horrible to lose a beloved kitty. Been there too many times. Every time I see your post with that cute nose sliding towards me I think of you and Mr. Mickey. I'm a sucker for kitties, wish I could save every last one of them. Pardon the intrusion.
MrMickeysMom
(20,453 posts)Actually, my left hand corner is Mr. Mickey, rest his precious little soul. But, the tabby down on the right has his face, but is definitely someone else's gif.
I DO have memories of Mr. Mickey being vacuumed that I will have to make into a gif one day.
navarth
(5,927 posts)I've got our boy Frankie in my lap as I write this. What a good lad he is.
Yes, they are precious little souls, aren't they? Frankie says hi.
MrMickeysMom
(20,453 posts)Ligyron
(7,644 posts)MrMickeysMom
(20,453 posts)Back at ya!
gordyfl
(598 posts)and New Hampshire Senator.
senz
(11,945 posts)The people still matter.
trillion
(1,859 posts)hellraiser69
(49 posts)and have been supporting Bernie since he first ran for the Senate and I am from Georgia.
hifiguy
(33,688 posts)I am stocking up on brown trousers after seeing that.
She BARELY won the older demographic and got slaughtered with the younger people. The moving finger writes....
Matt_in_STL
(1,446 posts)in_cog_ni_to
(41,600 posts)No kidding.
PEACE
LOVE
BERNIE
PonyUp
(1,680 posts)redwitch
(14,952 posts)jberryhill
(62,444 posts)Figure, a certain percentage of the population consists of pathological liars.
bvar22
(39,909 posts)*
A Simple Game
(9,214 posts)Nite Owl
(11,303 posts)was that bad.
morningfog
(18,115 posts)NightWatcher
(39,343 posts)If everyone votes for you, electability takes care of itself.
beam me up scottie
(57,349 posts)TTUBatfan2008
(3,623 posts)The attack dogs have been out in force. No doubt the campaign had similar internal polling on the integrity issue.
merrily
(45,251 posts)litlbilly
(2,227 posts)merrily
(45,251 posts)litlbilly
(2,227 posts)Jenny_92808
(1,342 posts)because it is so true.
merrily
(45,251 posts)Same for Scarborough's toupee.
840high
(17,196 posts)merrily
(45,251 posts)It's crazy, but it's true!
litlbilly
(2,227 posts)DUbeornot2be
(367 posts)...as if they made a decision to disregard favorabilty ratings altogether since people don't trust her anyway...
californiabernin
(421 posts)in_cog_ni_to
(41,600 posts)Who wants a president they think is a liar and can't be trusted? No one!
PEACE
LOVE
BERNIE
EdwardBernays
(3,343 posts)I have had people tell me the opposite... kinda...
in_cog_ni_to
(41,600 posts)Why? Who? would want someone like that to lead this country? That makes no sense. We had 8 years if that with Bush and Cheney.
Sad!
PEACE
LOVE
BERNIE
EdwardBernays
(3,343 posts)all politicians are corrupt, so I don't care about that...
in_cog_ni_to
(41,600 posts)He's good to the core. Everyone else isn't.
PEACE
LOVE
BERNIE
EdwardBernays
(3,343 posts)He's not perfect the contrast is so stark its hard to take seriously.
Fast Walker 52
(7,723 posts)litlbilly
(2,227 posts)an actual honest politican
merrily
(45,251 posts)Brilliant.
nichomachus
(12,754 posts)When the corrupt politician benefits the people. When the corrupt politician benefits the elite, people don't like it at all.
James Michael Curley in Boston was corrupt, but he fought for the little guy. Buddy Cianci (RIP) of Providence was corrupt, but he did great things for the city. People liked both of them.
But when all your corruption does is line your own pockets -- $675,000 for a 20-minute speech? -- or the pockets of billionaires, people don't like it.
I still can't understand working-class Hillary supporters effectively voting against their own best interests. I thought that was a Republican thing.
A Simple Game
(9,214 posts)Or anyone for any reason?
You really have to just shake your head at some peoples reasoning.
INdemo
(6,994 posts)loses NH and what if now Bernie with huge momentum now wins NV ..what happena then with Hillary's funding?Does her deep pockets Wall St friends take a time out and a second look at her?
regnaD kciN
(26,045 posts)Cassiopeia
(2,603 posts)but her campaign will need cash to move around and pay employees.
Erich Bloodaxe BSN
(14,733 posts)She can just go out and give a few more speeches afterwards to pay it off.
Cassiopeia
(2,603 posts)She passes that off onto the people, or at least she did after the '08 election loss.
bvar22
(39,909 posts)like she did last time. Its a Clinton thing.
Erich Bloodaxe BSN
(14,733 posts)They've already started downplaying expectations. "It's a caucus state." "It's less Latino than people think."
EdwardBernays
(3,343 posts)If that holds up... bern felt.
merrily
(45,251 posts)it damn well should be.
And that's not counting the risk of the FBI investigation or the impact of all the baggage in the general.
Nanjeanne
(5,003 posts)People are voting their conscience on who they WANT elected . . .
Not basing their vote on who the pundits are telling them is most electable.
juxtaposed
(2,778 posts)Blus4u
(608 posts)Those six words say a lot.
Peace
litlbilly
(2,227 posts)Kip Humphrey
(4,753 posts)Duckhunter935
(16,974 posts)GO BERNIE!!!
in_cog_ni_to
(41,600 posts)That's yoooooge! Even the women don't like her.
PEACE
LOVE
BERNIE
Duckhunter935
(16,974 posts)SammyWinstonJack
(44,130 posts)in_cog_ni_to
(41,600 posts)She's so fake and disingenuous. I don't believe a word she says.
PEACE
LOVE
BERNIE
litlbilly
(2,227 posts)Dont call me Shirley
(10,998 posts)Duckhunter935
(16,974 posts)Dont call me Shirley
(10,998 posts)Erich Bloodaxe BSN
(14,733 posts)Dont call me Shirley
(10,998 posts)Made my day, Erich!
chknltl
(10,558 posts)I am a card carrying Chick because due to my last name being Chick it is on all of my cards!
Dont call me Shirley
(10,998 posts)Jefferson23
(30,099 posts)johnnyrocket
(1,773 posts)demosocialist
(184 posts)amborin
(16,631 posts)Arazi
(6,829 posts)Her campaign must be freaking out!
LonePirate
(13,437 posts)It seems like a given that this should always be the case but I am wondering if this is a long standing value for Dem voters or if it is a relatively new phenomenon (i.e. strong leader being most important in the past).
litlbilly
(2,227 posts)jwirr
(39,215 posts)Akicita
(1,196 posts)Blus4u
(608 posts)You deserve all of your hearts and more for your tenaciousness, the information you bring us and your willingness to jump in toe to toe when the fur is flying!
Peace to you and yours
cali
(114,904 posts)Peace Patriot
(24,010 posts)bullwinkle428
(20,631 posts)SammyWinstonJack
(44,130 posts)cali.
Tierra_y_Libertad
(50,414 posts)ErikJ
(6,335 posts)She cant speak from the gut.
anotherproletariat
(1,446 posts)Whenever I get asked this question, I find myself falling back on repub talking points. I would much rather have good, progressive facts to use in such discussions. The pro-Hillary people always say that she is a target of drummed up attacks by the right, and none of it is true.
jwirr
(39,215 posts)to make deals. Also things like her vote on the bankruptcy bill - she claimed for years to be helping women and then votes for that crap. So much of what they have done ends up profiting themselves instead of those who needed help.
regnaD kciN
(26,045 posts)jwirr
(39,215 posts)she has been part of.
RunInCircles
(122 posts)While I doubt anything illegal occurred this is the most amazing under-reported issue.
There may have been no connection and yet it leaves the impression for the rest of the world that a top US official was open to bribery. How is this not a judgment lapse greater than the Iraq war vote. Was there a public announcement that I am unaware of stating that Hillary was recusing herself from the approval process for any donor to her foundation?
Imagine the optics "psst: The Secretary of State of the United States of America can be bribed to approve arms sales."
KingCharlemagne
(7,908 posts)combat vets.
anotherproletariat
(1,446 posts)I have been totally pro-Bernie, but reading through these opinions, and looking for documentation for many of the things that were said, I can't help but wonder if we are all falling for a conservative trap. Not many of the criticisms really hold water. Most are subjective. The right is spending tons of money trashing Hillary (which, I admit, doesn't seem that hard to do), but they are leaving Bernie totally alone. All of my republican neighbors are salivating at the chance that Bernie might win the nomination. They think that he is doing fairly well in the polls right now because there have been virtually no negative attacks on him. In fact, my republican brother (who is fairly young and had previously been a democrat, but has had recent significant financial success) has been to some big donor parties for Jeb and Kasich, and at both was told specifically to just leave Bernie alone and continue to bring up all of Hillary's faults when discussing politics with friends/colleagues.
Honestly, I would LOVE to have Bernie as president. He would clearly be the most liberal president ever, but I wonder if that is just too good to be true. Heck, when we elected Obama we knew that he was moderate on many things that went against my beliefs (gay marriage being the big one), but felt that he was the best candidate to carry the torch of the Democratic Party. But I have a very hard time visualizing a path for him to the victory in November. I know, I know...people hate the electability argument. Really though, can you see those majority of repubs who don't want Muslims to enter the country supporting a non-christian candidate? I go to a liberal church, and there are many people there who couldn't imagine a president who was not christian. And that is with most of American thinking he is Jewish...imagine when they find out he is agnostic. Also, can't you just see the ads about the socialism thing? Of course they won't focus on the fact that democratic socialism is very different from Marxist socialism, and when Bernie fights back, it will just look desperate. This is totally aside from the facts of his age, his appearance, and his tendency to lose his cool (again, something I love because we are at the point in this country where we NEED to lose our cool!). You know they are also going to dig up other things, be they truth or not, that will be used against him.
The death of Scalia has really made me stop and think about how important it is to get a democrat in the white house. I'm getting scared. I see so many people a few years younger than me just following the Bernie crowd blindly, with no ability to voice their reasons, other than 'that's what their friends are doing'. I would welcome reassurance from the Bernie peeps, but please give me facts, not just that "Hillary is evil or untrustworthy". Because when I look into those claims, it just seems to be the result of specific political moves that happen over the course of a career in politics, all of which can be spinned in several ways.
I've read other posts in my short time on this site like this one, and the writer inevitably is accused of being a troll. This is absolutely not the case here, I am dying to engage in intelligent, adult conversation about the best course for our party. Honestly, if I was a troll I would post this in a more obvious place. By putting it at the end of a long thread, I am hoping that a few thoughtful people might find it and answer. Smart discourse is the reason I came here in the first place. I was learning nothing from the hotheads on Facebook and twitter. I have respect for both Democratic candidates and their supporters (well, most of them!). I want to believe in miracles, but there really is no precedent for the Bernie revolution we all want so much. I'm afraid that the fervent hope for dramatic change is blinding us to reality.
Warren DeMontague
(80,708 posts)We need a subject-changing meme infusion here, STAT!
Fast Walker 52
(7,723 posts)senz
(11,945 posts)They are clueless. She is shameless.
jham123
(278 posts)....indeed.
I mean, she watches Bernie's speeches and usurps excerpts from them despite her being the actual topic when Bernie states such....how does she or her followers not see that??
truedelphi
(32,324 posts)X amount of that group of voters is now meaningless.
Only 36% of all Americans feel themselves to be tied down to a Democratic Candidate. And many many of them, I imagine, are relieved and enthused (as I am) that Mr Sanders is running.
We have been fooled so many times we are not going to let it happen again.
ozone_man
(4,825 posts)Honesty is a good policy.
LS_Editor
(893 posts)This is satire. It references a quote made by Madeleine Albright that has been DEFENDED by Hillary Clinton. Enjoy.
Hillary: Have Fun Burning in Hell, Women of New Hampshire
+
More at link...
Beacool
(30,253 posts)What do VT, IA and NH have in common? Overwhelmingly white and, among Democrats, they are the first, second and third most liberal states in the nation.
I wouldn't read too much yet on the exit poll questions. We'll see how it goes in NV, SC and the SEC states.
Until then, congratulations to Sanders and his supporters for tonight's win.
cali
(114,904 posts)and it has been getting steadily worse. You can bet her campaign is paying close attention.
But thank you very much.
Beacool
(30,253 posts)The proof will be in the pudding after Super Tuesday. I don't have a crystal ball, so I won't read all sorts of portents out of the results in NH.
uponit7771
(90,370 posts)... 50 states we'll lose the general.
Clinton nationally does not have the problem with the general dem electorate that Sanders has with PoC and women right now.
gordyfl
(598 posts)for the Democratic nominee, if Bernie wins the nomination? Do you think they will stay home, or vote Republican in the General Election.
KingCharlemagne
(7,908 posts)is the Dem nominee?
Please proceed.
uponit7771
(90,370 posts)Cassiopeia
(2,603 posts)which translates to a loss in the GE.
Hill gets the nom and we hand the keys back to the Republicans.
uponit7771
(90,370 posts)... along racial lines either.
Sanders has GOP numbers with PoC nationally... he'll have to get those numbers up before June
Cassiopeia
(2,603 posts)Have a wonderful day.
uponit7771
(90,370 posts)cali
(114,904 posts)Not the stuff about Bernie, but the way out fantasy that hilly can replicate the Obama coalition.
ozone_man
(4,825 posts)then Massachusetts. Iowa and NH are pretty main stream. NH is historically conservative, but in an independent way. They will vote for a socialist Democrat, if they think he's telling the truth.
merrily
(45,251 posts)Beacool
(30,253 posts)I added the qualifier "among Democrats". The percentage of Democrats who consider themselves to be liberals is higher in those three states. In IA, for example, 43% of Democrats identify themselves as Socialists.
merrily
(45,251 posts)Why are you changing the subject to Iowa? My post to you was only about NH.
Beacool
(30,253 posts)The Democrats within those states are pretty liberal. In Southern states the majority of Democrats identify themselves as moderate to conservative. My whole point is that Sanders' version of liberalism resonates in those three states a lot more than it will resonate in some others.
merrily
(45,251 posts)apply to New Hampshire, which is a purple state.
Beacool
(30,253 posts)You refuse to see my point, so....
Ciao....
Laissez les bons temps rouler!!!
merrily
(45,251 posts)Roll away. I know I will.
brett_jv
(1,245 posts)Whether you do or not. The state itself being purple was not in dispute. The point they're making is that the DEMOCRATS in NH are overall among the most liberal in the US. This could be true in the reddest of red states, because only the BLUE portion of it ... is being addressed.
I don't know if the 'point' is factual or not, but the point was very clear from their first post, at least to me.
merrily
(45,251 posts)It takes more than claiming something and, when challenged, simply repeating it to make a point. That you don't know if the poster's comment is true or not proves she did not make her point. Had she provided some evidence, for example, that winners of New Hampshire Democratic primaries are more liberal than winners of most other primaries around the country, she may have made her point. She didn't.
senz
(11,945 posts)Thanks for speaking the truth, merrily.
merrily
(45,251 posts)Kentonio
(4,377 posts)Yet lose their minds over the idea of raising taxes by a few bucks to provide paid family leave. What people consider themselves to be is often a strange and confusing thing to behold..
Beacool
(30,253 posts)The issue is not what we think here. The issue is Sanders proposing things he will never be able to fulfill. When that fact is pointed out to him, he always brings up a "political revolution". Yeah, well wake me up when it occurs. Wishful thinking of people uprising to demand that Congress passes your agenda is exactly that, wishful thinking. It's also disingenuous. He's not stupid, he knows perfectly well what he will encounter with Congress. Why pretend otherwise? IMO, he's selling his supporters a bill of goods. The young are too inexperienced to know it, the very liberal still hope against hope that it will happen.
Kentonio
(4,377 posts)But keep on insulting us, it's clearly working well.
MadDAsHell
(2,067 posts)How are we OK with Democrats thinking that about their own nominee, regardless of the state it's coming from?
Beacool
(30,253 posts)MadDAsHell
(2,067 posts)If ANY state has that big of an issue with the trustworthiness of our nominee, that is not a good thing and shouldn't be ignored just because she'll presumably still get nominated.
Beacool
(30,253 posts)The constant pounding of Republicans on Benghazi and now the e-mail server has eroded people's confidence to a degree. Hillary will just have to work harder to prove them wrong.
jham123
(278 posts)That's what you Hillary supporters stated last week...then followed up with "Wait till NH, it's not nearly as white as Iowa"
But WAIT! there's more!
So, how long are you going to keep this up? I mean 21 points, that's phenomenal. "Mandate" does not really describe it, more like "landslide" in Bernie's favor.
Last week .026% was a Yooooooge victory for Clinton, but 21 whole points = "Wait till next week"...
Beacool
(30,253 posts)Sanders was ahead by 20% to 30%. I had written off both states and was pleasantly surprised when Hillary pulled ahead in IA, even if it was by a very thin margin.
Besides, it's all about the delegates. Sanders won NH handily, but here's the current delegate count in that state.
Hillary 15
Sanders 13
jham123
(278 posts)the next 20 minutes finding the post from last week. Would that do any good? Would you Cede the point even if I 'showed' you the post?
Beacool
(30,253 posts)I'm just pointing out that it wasn't a reasonable conclusion by that Hillary supporter.
"by that Hillary supporter."
By THOSE Hillary supporterS"
It wasn't just one. There were plenty.
"And the AAs will support Hillary more in the states that aren't all White like Iowa".....that statement was duly noted by myself as well.
Dragonfli
(10,622 posts)the population later on at the convention. If they did not, they would be paid off or simply corrupt. Such corruption has yet to happen, ever, do you know something about payoffs or corruption this year in NH that we do not that would make NH 2016 the first state to ignore the will of the voters and override the election making the election a mockery as if we lived in a third world country?
frylock
(34,825 posts)cali
(114,904 posts)frylock
(34,825 posts)...there's a flash back!
senz
(11,945 posts)That is so important. And it will continue to grow in importance.
Recommended.
Duckhunter935
(16,974 posts)Logical
(22,457 posts)hifiguy
(33,688 posts)"Why don't I trust you guys?"
Trapper John (smiling): "Because we're not trustworthy."
LondonReign2
(5,213 posts)PonyUp
(1,680 posts)PonyUp
(1,680 posts)wolfie001
(2,293 posts)Daughter: Senator Sanders wants to dismantle Obamacare, dismantle the CHIP program, dismantle Medicare and private insurance.
Husband: "Hillary's opponent has a different view, It's a hermetically sealed box."
Keep it up "helpers". Go Bernie!!!
Orsino
(37,428 posts)Whatever anyone thinks of her actual career, a big chunk of that negativity is the result of hypnosis, and utter bullshit.
sulphurdunn
(6,891 posts)establishment let Sanders win the primary, and he then won the presidency, they'd be out on their asses. Do you think they would allow that? Might they rather risk running Clinton and losing the election to keep the power regardless of the will of the people?
cali
(114,904 posts)Erich Bloodaxe BSN
(14,733 posts)We all know that a 'red light' is used by women of the night, so you're obviously calling Clinton the W word!
asuhornets
(2,405 posts)that will change..
cali
(114,904 posts)And what we've seen to date, is that as people get to know him, they like him.
asuhornets
(2,405 posts)He wants to raise taxes, not gonna fly. Who will he pick for his Secretary of State, Defense. No one has a clue. The race is moving fast and there are many unanswered questions. He should broaden his message.
cali
(114,904 posts)Hillary needs to articulate an overarching aspirational vision. And no, she hasn't yet done that.
asuhornets
(2,405 posts)bvar22
(39,909 posts)and then he surprised us by keeping many Bush appointed Republicans,
and did THIS for his cabinet:
[font size=4]
The DLC New Team
[/font]
(Screen Capped from the DLC Website)
So, no. That argument holds no water.
NoMoreRepugs
(9,500 posts)where 'trustworthiness' can be factored in has that built in bias - true or false doesn't matter - it's the perception that is important.
Fast Walker 52
(7,723 posts)LittleGirl
(8,292 posts)Kilgore
(1,733 posts)Amazing data, thanks for posting.
ViseGrip
(3,133 posts)NiteOwl1
(87 posts)If it comes down to Hillary and Trump (I doubt)... it will be a battle of the "negatives".
Who is disliked the least.... Hmmmm