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Wed Feb 10, 2016, 12:46 PM

 

Why didn't more people see this coming?

There is no surprise that the country has become more ideologically divided over the past several decades. The right has gone Tea Party and the left has gone more progressive. The "safe"place was to position oneself closer to the middle as not to alienate the other side any more than necessary. George W called himself the passionate conservative, for chrissakes. Then he attacks a country with nothing but a lie.

The people have had it with the lies, deception and greed of our elected politicians, corporate structures and major media. This should come as no surprise to anyone. Money is and has been the driving force of power for far too long and Americans are not going to tolerate it any longer. The Reagan years have proven that the trickle does not drip for anyone other than the money brokers.

Is there really any surprise here? Really?

21 replies, 1498 views

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Arrow 21 replies Author Time Post
Reply Why didn't more people see this coming? (Original post)
floriduck Feb 2016 OP
hollysmom Feb 2016 #1
floriduck Feb 2016 #4
hollysmom Feb 2016 #15
floriduck Feb 2016 #16
hollysmom Feb 2016 #19
TwilightGardener Feb 2016 #2
casperthegm Feb 2016 #3
HooptieWagon Feb 2016 #8
HooptieWagon Feb 2016 #5
Old Codger Feb 2016 #7
hedda_foil Feb 2016 #6
HooptieWagon Feb 2016 #9
virtualobserver Feb 2016 #10
floriduck Feb 2016 #14
ebayfool Feb 2016 #20
longship Feb 2016 #11
Orsino Feb 2016 #12
Jefferson23 Feb 2016 #13
Skwmom Feb 2016 #17
Arugula Latte Feb 2016 #18
Shandris Feb 2016 #21

Response to floriduck (Original post)

Wed Feb 10, 2016, 12:48 PM

1. I disagree. Some of the country has gone bonkers, they just didn't take everyone with them

The media has moved the center so far right, that middle ground is recognized as wild and radical. Regulating banks that get a guarantee from the US government would never have sounded radical 20 or 30 years ago, but the insanity of the right controlled media has moved the benchmarks.

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Response to hollysmom (Reply #1)

Wed Feb 10, 2016, 12:57 PM

4. I don't disagree with your claim about the media.

 

But how do you reconcile the large swing from centrist to more progressive voting now versus 2008? The media didn't do it by themselves. They are symptomatic of the corporate greed that plagues us. How do you explain the Democrats voting for the TPA and TPP? My own senators Murray and Cantwell voted for the TPP due to Boeing, Microsoft and other corporations in the state. Murray got a $57000 contribution for her support.

And the banks lost whatever regulations they should have had during the Clinton 1990s. As much as I'd like to blame the Tea Party alone, our elected officials have moved further right while the electorate has moved left. Do you still disagree with that?

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Response to floriduck (Reply #4)

Thu Feb 11, 2016, 01:46 PM

15. what swing to progressive from moderate? certainly not in the house or senate

People keep moving the center to the right, so if you stand still you look more progressive -
Banks have federal guarantees, so why should it be looked at as radical to restore bank regulations that existed for decades and worked? That is not a progressive or radical idea? So many things that are being touted as radical and progressive are actually things we used to have, like free or inexpensive college - I would have never gone to college with out a full scholarship like the ones NJ handed out like candy in my generation. You got into college, you got a state scholarship. NOT RADICAL!!!! It was that way because of the Sputnik scare, heck education cartoons used to be on TV when I was growing up. On Networks which were not only about making money but also fighting for prestige, I remember an hour long cartoon in prime time explaining the theory of relativity. Fairness in TV NOT A RADICAL IDEA but not liked by conservatives who want to lie without any disagreement.

Please, do not pretend that this country in in an information black hole that claims anything sensible is radical left.

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Response to hollysmom (Reply #15)

Thu Feb 11, 2016, 04:36 PM

16. You have really misunderstood my posts.

 

I'm not sure how that happened but I'll take some of the responsibility if I wasn't clear. I have NEVER said the overall shift is to the right. I AM saying that the left and right are more separated now than ever. And I don't see that as a result of liberal/ progressive ideas? If you can't accept that, we will agree to disagree. I am as far left as they come and I don't apologize for it. I'm not sure where you are at this point but I worked my way through college. I was fortunate. But I want to see my grandkids graduate without a major debt over their heads so they can start a career off right.

I worked through the S&L mess as well as the 2008 financial mess. The less regulation we have on financial and environmentally impacting industries, the more likely we are to experience even worse results.

Are we okay here now?

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Response to floriduck (Reply #16)

Thu Feb 11, 2016, 05:06 PM

19. I took it you thought that the left moved far left and I don't think it has moved at all, but the

right has been dragging people further and further in the deep dark bushes.
If I came off too harsh it was because for the last two weeks, I have been fighting with conservatives who claim that the center has moved left. Apparently using actual examples annoys them and they ignore issues I bring up.

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Response to floriduck (Original post)

Wed Feb 10, 2016, 12:49 PM

2. I'm interested in seeing how the horse gets maneuvered back into the barn.

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Response to floriduck (Original post)

Wed Feb 10, 2016, 12:52 PM

3. I used to be more centrist

I used to be more of a centrist, hoping that both parties would come together to work out a deal, even if it didn't really represent my views. Now I'm not so sure that centrist doesn't also equate to compromising your values. My values are well left of center and Bernie has really tapped into what those values are. They are looking out for those without a voice or under-represented by the status quo. I think I'm done settling. Time to feel the Bern.

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Response to casperthegm (Reply #3)

Wed Feb 10, 2016, 01:14 PM

8. There is no Center anymore.

 

Hillary is very near Jeb Bush. Identical neo-con foreign policy. Nearly identical economic policy...except Hillary claims to support $12/hr ( does she mean it?). Only real difference is social issues...Hillary is pro-choice and pro-SSM (since 2013). Both have similar education agendas.
Goldman-Sach's Blankfein said he'd be very happy with either as president...that should be a red flag to us.
Yes, the Center is a myth. Independents are primarily on the edges.

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Response to floriduck (Original post)

Wed Feb 10, 2016, 01:07 PM

5. Congress's single digit approval rating should have been a clue.

 

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Response to HooptieWagon (Reply #5)

Wed Feb 10, 2016, 01:13 PM

7. The don't care

 

At all about their standings with the peons, all that counts is the big money they can get from wall street and billionaires ... They can use that to buy elections so we are irrelevant

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Response to floriduck (Original post)

Wed Feb 10, 2016, 01:11 PM

6. George W..."Passionate Conservative"???

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Response to hedda_foil (Reply #6)

Wed Feb 10, 2016, 01:18 PM

9. Author probably meant 'Compassionate Conservative'

 

Which is what Bush the Lesser called himself in 2000.
Can we call Clinton a 'Compassionate Corporatist'?

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Response to hedda_foil (Reply #6)

Wed Feb 10, 2016, 01:18 PM

10. compassionate

 

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Response to virtualobserver (Reply #10)

Wed Feb 10, 2016, 01:34 PM

14. Yes, compassionate. My bad. nm

 

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Response to hedda_foil (Reply #6)

Thu Feb 11, 2016, 05:11 PM

20. Yeah, that one gave me a spontaneous laugh (& then a skerry mental picture)!

I don't think Bush could muster 'passionate' on his best day.

(And yes, I know it was a mistake, people!)

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Response to floriduck (Original post)

Wed Feb 10, 2016, 01:18 PM

11. LBJ would have never let anybody get away with saying that.

You would have likely gotten a middle of the night phone call from him. The word "gladiolas" might have figured prominently, among other descriptors, less polite.

That is the Democratic Party I grew up with. Then, there's FDR, Truman, JFK, RFK, etc.

I cannot believe anybody could post such a thing and maintain any credibility as a Democrat.

Sorry.

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Response to floriduck (Original post)

Wed Feb 10, 2016, 01:21 PM

12. As recently as a year ago, I predicted a Clinton waltz to the nomination.

There wasn't another Barack Obama on the horizon to spoil the view.

I was wrong, and we seem to have an Obama on our hands. Not one with the cool, or with the sexy speaking voice, but one with a real progressive message that is inspiring millions. This campaign is a fight, and threatens to be a fight over things that matter.

It's still uphill, with the big money and airtime working against Sanders, but we have our chance, if enough of us care to try.

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Response to floriduck (Original post)

Wed Feb 10, 2016, 01:23 PM

13. Yes and that is one reason Trump does well, aside from his race baiting his supporters believe

he is not establishment and he funds his own campaign. They are aware on some very
real level that WS is the culprit. They seem to get a lot of details confused about it
but they are not fans of the banksters. They also hate NAFTA and TPP, they seem to
reject as well.

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Response to floriduck (Original post)

Thu Feb 11, 2016, 04:38 PM

17. It's not about being more left than right. It's about a govt that works for the corp and 1%


It's about people understanding that their govt is corrupt.

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Response to floriduck (Original post)

Thu Feb 11, 2016, 04:41 PM

18. A lot of these people are in a bubble of privilege and delusion.

 

Not just in the Beltway, but in the tonier parts of Manhattan.

They can't seem to get over the fact that it's not 1996 anymore, or even 2006, and they don't have control over their preferred narrative.

Social media is bringing these arrogant, self-entitled grifters down because we can now talk amongst ourselves.



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Response to floriduck (Original post)

Thu Feb 11, 2016, 05:18 PM

21. Kind of crazy isn't it, how much of a surprise it seems to some people.

 

The Tea Party and the Progressives are just memes. Oh sure, they exist, but they exist because people believe the memes. Their actual goals aren't very different once you take the media and Priesthood's attempts at 'translating' the other sides' desires away. And slowly people have begun to see that (although more on our side than theirs, for the moment). They are the goals of most citizenry, the world over, with only minor differentials in opinion that could be worked out on a regional (think MEGA) scale.

The memes are used to divide you to the extremes and make you think there are huge differences. "We just cain't git along with them, they'z all racists!" and "Those ignurnt libruls, we cain't git along with them! Dey want all white peeplez ta die!" Meme companies headed by former CIA agents offer their services on the internet, and people think 'normal political discourse' leads to the polarization of today. What a riot.

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