Black Leaders who support Hillary Slam Bernie Sanders on race issues

[bravenak]

https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/post-politics/wp/2016/02/10/black-leaders-who-support-hillary-clinton-slam-bernie-sanders-on-race-issues/

And so it begins.

[arcane1]

1. Funny how the only "issue" in the article was voting for a bill that Clinton signed into law.

Lame!

[bravenak]

3. And his lack of reaching out FOR YEARS

[nichomachus]

7. As opposed to the Clintons

Who reached out and slapped minority communities down. NAFTA, CAFTA, endless war, destruction of welfare.

[bravenak]

74. We are black so please bring up welfare

We love that.

[bettyellen]

83. OMG, I love you, B!!

[bravenak]

86. Love you too!

[JonLeibowitz]

170. A number of other issues were mentioned, all important to PoC.

[bravenak]

171. But Welfare always is mentioned always because its all we care about really

[JonLeibowitz]

184. No doubt the constituency cares about many issues, one of which is welfare. I care about it too.

Besides, do you know the posting history of that poster? What if that was the first time he or she mentioned welfare, along with a tedious list of other issues...

[Nonhlanhla]

173. Your response made me spit out my tea!

[bravenak]

176. Isnt this bizzarre?

[all american girl]

250. I find that funny also

I'm white, from Iowa and was raised on welfare. I was around when Reagan was saying "welfare queen." I may have been in high school, and not political, but even I figured it out. All I had to say was, if this is how a queen lives, then that is sad.

And all you people who bring up welfare, as if it's only an AA issue, reminder, more white people are on it....so stop it.

[mhatrw]

9. Yeah. He never kissed the rings of the black establishment power brokers.

Meanwhile, the Clintons know exactly how to play that game.

[bravenak]

11. Black establishment power brokers?

Oh. Keep up that talk it is so helpful to Bernie.

[Gothmog]

64. I hope that the Sanders people keep using Prof. West as a surrogate

Attacking President Obama is a great way to win the support of Democratic voters who support President Obama

[bravenak]

66. Oh yes. It really is a brilliant strategy.

They should be rude to any of us who question him at all.

[Gothmog]

224. I am amazed at this strategy but I love this saying attributed to Napoleon

This is one of my favorite sayings http://quoteinvestigator.com/2010/07/06/never-interfere/

Never Interfere With an Enemy While He’s in the Process of Destroying Himself

[bravenak]

225. Perfect!

[CorporatistNation]

220. President Obama By His "Governance"NOT His Rhetoric Is A CORPORATIST President!

His record speaks for itself... Corporate Health care Plan... No punition for Wall Street crimes, Patriot Act Military Commissions still in Place, TPP TPIP! WTF? Wake UP!

[Gothmog]

222. You are entitled to your opinion and other voters who like President Obama are free to disagree

I doubt that Sanders will be successful in attracting a significant percentage of African American voters based on that position but go ahead and try it

[Unknown Beatle]

241. What CorporatistNation wrote about is the truth

and not an opinion. The truth is not an opinion.

[Gothmog]

242. You are entitle to your own opinion but you are not entitled to your own facts

Good luck in selling your opinion to African American voters

[Electric Monk]

244. It's been said that imitation is the sincerest form of flattery. Consider me flattered.

http://www.democraticunderground.com/?com=view_post&forum=1251&pid=1188180

[mhatrw]

240. I am me. I am not Sanders. And I don't like our current "pay to play" political system.

I realize that people have to try to succeed in the system they find themselves in, but that doesn't mean I have to like the system.

[cascadiance]

39. Oh, so he's slammed for not supporting Barry Goldwater, such a GREAT supporter of civil rights?

... the way Hillary did?

Sorry, but I guess he can't do everything that's "good" in your eyes!

[mcar]

60. ..

[catnhatnh]

59. Where were you in '62

Bernie: Being Arrested For Desegregation: As a student at the University of Chicago, Sanders was active in both the Congress on Racial Equality (CORE) and the Student Nonviolent Coordinating Committee (SNCC). In 1962, he was arrested for protesting segregation in public schools in Chicago; the police came to call him an outside agitator, as he went around putting up flyers around the city detailing police brutality.

Hillary:1962 April 15 — Goes with church youth group to Chicago to hear Rev. Martin Luther King. Hillary’s minister, Don Jones, takes Hillary and others backstage where she meets Rev. King.

Which affected her deeply as shown here:
Hillary:1964 — In the fall goes door-to-door for conservative presidential candidate Barry Goldwater.

[Empowerer]

72. 1968: Bernie invokes his white privilege to move to a state where he's unlikely to encounter black

people in any significant numbers, where he was guaranteed to live and work surrounded by people of his own race and where he was rarely, if ever again spotted marching or sitting in for civil rights for African Americans

See how that works? A negative spin can be put on anything.

[jfern]

88. He didn't go there to avoid blacks

In fact, he was one of the few white politicians to endorse Jesse Jackson. Jackson won the Vermont caucus in 1988 with Bernie's help.

[Empowerer]

111. So, 20 years after moving to lily-white Vermont, Sanders endorse Jesse Jackson

Hardly a profile in courage, but OK ...

[jfern]

119. Barely any white politicians endorsed Jackson

The Clintons certainly didn't

[Empowerer]

129. But plenty did

This was nice, but hardly a profile in courage

[jfern]

131. Nope, he really hardly had any white politicians endorse him

[bravenak]

130. And a bunch of blacks cant even think to have voted for Jackson

He is not the end all be all of black. And I was a small child then so why should that matter? She has stumped for plenty of us not just one guy in the eighties. Oh. And Obama before and after he called for a primary.

[jfern]

134. Bernie stumped for Obama in 2012

[bravenak]

135. And? Oh, you mean after he called for the PRIMARY of OBAMA

He rarely has a nice word to say about O

[jfern]

136. He never said Obama shouldn't be re-elected

[bravenak]

140. Oh. Calling FOR A PRIMARY is not indicating any opposition

I must be stupid. I see it as an ATTACK.

So do most OBAMADEMOCRATS

[jfern]

146. You can support someone for re-election and still be in favor of them not being unopposed

in the primary

[bravenak]

148. I'm sure black voters will Side with Sanders over O

He has such a good relationship with us. We will believe him over our own minds

[jfern]

149. Bernie isn't running against Obama

He's running against the candidate who ran a racist campaign against Obama 8 years ago

[bravenak]

150. Yes he is.

Running against the establishment is running against the ESTABLISHED President. And he wants to get rid of obamacare and put berniecare. How RUDE!

[jfern]

151. ObamaCare is already part BernieCare, he got community health clinics to cover another 10 million

[bravenak]

155. Um no. The way you guys give Bernie credit for anything good from obamacare and act like bernie

Is the leader and obama the follower does nothing to endear bernie to us at all. Please keep doing it. Seriously.

[jfern]

156. You love your straw mans

[bravenak]

158. Me too

[virtualobserver]

137. and the Sister Souljah slapdown was directed at Jesse Jackson

this cynical attempt to diminish Bernie by the Clintons is so despicable and disgusting.

We cannot let people like them have the reins of power again. They tarnish the Democratic Party.

[jfern]

147. It's kind of crazy how many people ignore all the anti black things the Clintons have done

If Bernie had done those sort of things, it'd be game over for him.

[virtualobserver]

153. Bernie is the first candidate I've ever heard of that is being asked for a 40 yr civil rights resume

A trip down Youtube lane will give you a clear idea of where he stood on all types of injustice over his entire congressional career.

The people who are questioning here however, don't give an actual shit about his record. These are just taunts and games.


The Clintons aren't being asked to explain any of the questionable things in their careers concerning this exact issue.

[Chitown Kev]

243. We had to ask because far too many (mostly white) peoplewere saying

that he marched with King, blah, blah, blah, 24/7/365...since that was thrown in black folks face so much, you think that we don't have a right to vet as well...or dhould we just take the word of nice white progressives for his civil rights commitment?

[virtualobserver]

246. you do have a right to vet

apparently when someone told you what they knew about Bernie.....you saw it as being thrown in your face, so I am a little surprised that you would even be interested in reading about what a Bernie supporter knew about him.

When Bernie started running, I went onto the internet and found that not only was every speech he ever gave in Congress available in video......you could even see speeches that he gave while he was mayor.

I saw a consistency in him that I have never seen in a politician. I liked his commitment to doing the right thing.

Sure, he protested against discrimination against black people,he went to Washington to hear Dr. King.

But when I searched in different years 1985. 1991, 1997, 2002 or whatever year, listening to his speeches...randomly....
every subject that he talked about, every group that was being harmed that he defended, his predictions about
the effect of various policies and laws and the impact that they would have that came true.

I was amazed.

If that is what you see when you look at Hillary, then I'm glad for you.

[catnhatnh]

90. Was that the year

Bill and Hillary moved to Watts???

[Empowerer]

114. Compared to Vermont, Arkansas IS Watts ...

[bravenak]

120. Damn straight!

[rbrnmw]

229. especially Little Rock

[Art_from_Ark]

247. Just what the hell is that supposed to mean?

[bravenak]

98. He sure did

[Thinkingabout]

84. Where was Sanders in 1956, what was he doing that year, the Civil Rights Movement began

in 1954, surely Sanders was active in 1956.

[catnhatnh]

96. Yep...

Running track in high school

[bravenak]

102. Was the school segregated?

I bet he desegregated it himself!

[Thinkingabout]

113. He should have been out working on the Civil Rights Movement.

"Hillary:1962 April 15 — Goes with church youth group to Chicago to hear Rev. Martin Luther King. Hillary’s minister, Don Jones, takes Hillary and others backstage where she meets Rev. King."

In 1962 Hillary was in high school, just as Sanders was in high school in 1956 running track, why would anyone expect a girl in high school to be in Selma or any other city while she was in high school.

[bravenak]

118. Yep. He was a grown man shoulda been FIGHTING

[Thinkingabout]

122. Yes, expectations of both candidates should be the same at the same age.

[bravenak]

125. Damn straight! Unless there is a reason that SHE deserves more criticism than HIM

[cascadiance]

231. Where was Hillary? Campaigning for Goldwater and later as a Republican in college...

who campaigned AGAINST and voted AGAINST the Civil Rights Act then!!!

How is that viewed as being more supportive of Civil rights for POC than what Bernie has done constantly through his whole life in support for civil rights.

[Thinkingabout]

234. In high school, she is not the same age as Sanders.

[cascadiance]

235. So she wasn't capable of thinking rationally in high school or as a freshman in college?

Nice to know when her brain developed the ability to think rationally was presumably a lot later in life than most people. Or so some people say when they don't want to acknowledge her early life history.

Interesting that today's students at the college that Hillary was a freshman Republican at look to have thought out well who they support this time!

[Thinkingabout]

253. Perhaps a refreshment of this thread would be of benefit.

[Perogie]

100. you could try google

http://www.alternet.org/election-2016/20-examples-bernie-sanders-powerful-record-civil-and-human-rights-1950s

[Thinkingabout]

117. Google, like google to determine the ages of Sanders and Hillary in 1962?

[Perogie]

126. I don't even know what that means.

I provided a link that showed what Bernie was doing in the 50's in regards to civil rights.

who cares how old they were in the 60's

[Thinkingabout]

143. In the 50's Hillary was 3-13 years old, this is what some people needs to understand.

It was said in 1962 when Sanders was 21 years old and marching and Hillary was a 15 year old in high school.

[all american girl]

251. And how old was she.....Oh yeah, a minor.

That just makes you look silly, because we should all be judged on things we did when we were in high school...smh

[Ferd Berfel]

81. As withthe Unions - it's The LEADERSHIP supporting HIllary

LEt's see what happens when the rank-and-file have a chance to speak!

[Thinkingabout]

87. Not all union members agrees with the decisions made, in particular the CWA decision.

[Ferd Berfel]

270. Since this story first came out and was SPUN- we have come to learn that the Black Caucus

HAS NOT endorsed either candidate, it was a PAC that endorsed her. the leadership of more "money of unknown origins" is pushing HIllary. huh. who'd a thunk?

[Thinkingabout]

273. Like the hedge fund PAC which is running ads against Hillary, who'd thunk?

PACs happy to run ads with "funds from unknown sources".

[Ferd Berfel]

274. What hedge fund PAC? And What Ads?

And what the hell does that have to do with Lying about a Black Caucus endorsement that never happened?

[Thinkingabout]

275. Hum, maybe some googling is in order.

And what did the post of " was a PAC that endorsed her. the leadership of more "money of unknown origins" is pushing HIllary. huh. who'd a thunk?" Had to do with the "lying".

[CorporatistNation]

218. Do ANY of These So Called Black Leaders Realize That Bernie Was ARRESTED For Standing Up Against...

INSTITUTIONALIZED SEGREGATION IN student housing at University of Chicago... And Bernie actually marched with MLK....

I mean Hillary IS THE EFFING "POSER" HERE! NOT BERNIE!

ANY THOUGHTS ON HOW CLINTON'S WELFARE REFORM FUCKED OVER THE POOR AND MOSTLY MINORITIES?

[Cali_Democrat]

2. Wonderful. nt

[bravenak]

4. Finally

[Hoyt]

5. Will be interested to see what Rev. Sharpton has to say about their meeting.

[bravenak]

12. He is meeting with black leaders before he endorses

[Ferd Berfel]

6. They slam the ONLY candidate that has been areested FIGHTING for Civil Rights

Clever. But the Rauner( in illinois) was able to pay Black Clergy to support him in the governors race.

[bravenak]

13. We get arrested for walking down the street why should his five minute police contact sway us?

[Ferd Berfel]

26. perfect

[Uncle Joe]

27. Do you?

[Ferd Berfel]

272. One additional Thought

Bernie started his career organizing for civil rights and getting arrested in the process while working for the people - Obviously that stayed with him.



Hillary started her career as a Republican, on the board of Walmart working for the 1%. Obviously that stayed with her too

[Renew Deal]

8. Sanders has done nothing for African Americans except for the things he's done.

"Dukes discounted the fact that Sanders participated in the March on Washington with thousands of others and Martin Luther King Jr. in the 1960s, and also that as a college student, he was arrested for protesting segregated housing at the University of Chicago."

[bravenak]

14. Sad it was too long ago for many of us to have been alive to notice

[cascadiance]

42. I guess he really wants to tear down prisons that your friends love so much having so many in?

Better to support Hillary Clinton who has many backers that are out to privatize prisons and "make them better" for people of color I guess.

[bravenak]

46. I do not believe him

If he cared his coalition would respect us

[cascadiance]

48. And how has he "not respected you"!?

If he hasn't "respected" you the way you appear to "respect" him, then I think he's treating you wall pretty nicely.

[bravenak]

51. He has dissed our presdent constantly

He does not care what we think about that at all
He never holds rallies in black areas
He does no campaign for our leaders very often
No relationship
He just wants our votes so he says stuff

Does he hire us?

[polly7]

54. Do you think Sanders would have for one second let the question of

"Is Obama a Muslim" stand without yelling out the stupidity of it?

or even mentioned the word 'assassinated' during a heated campaign when it was well known how hated Obama was by millions for 'running while black'?

If that isn't dissing, I'm not sure what is.

[bravenak]

56. He lets his grassroots say anything and says nothing

YES I DO

[polly7]

57. I said 'HE'.

Clintion said it ............. no anger for that? You know Sanders doesn't even have that kind of mentality to imagine such ugly things, let alone say them.

Your words are hollow.

[bravenak]

67. He doesn't even care who they harass

If he did he would say something like, 'don't call ta nehisi coates nwords on his page.'

Her being crappy on something does not make him automatically better.

[polly7]

68. I know, you can't even address my actual questions let alone answer them. It's ok. nt.

[bravenak]

73. I do not have to because I do not answer to you. Yay!

[polly7]

75. Guess you really didn't care about anyone 'dissing' Obama. Should have said that

in the first place.

[bravenak]

77. I like that he dissed Obama

Hurts him with blacks. I helped all day yesterday. Now it's time to beat Bernie

[polly7]

80. He didn't though. Clinton did, during a climate of outright hatred.

Did you like it then? Just curious ...

[Empowerer]

78. Apparently, he has - I've never heard him "yelling out the stupidity" of calling our President a

Muslim.

This has been happening for past 8 years - where's Sanders been?

[polly7]

82. Was he asked it directly one on one in an interview as she was?

Link?

And I have no doubt, none whatsofuckingever that he'd have been the first to slap that down if he'd had the opportunity.

[Kentonio]

254. Other politicians would stand up and say 'Obama is not a Muslim!'

Sanders would ask why having a Muslim president would be a bad thing anyway. That's the difference.

[polly7]

261. You're right, he would have done that, as well as denounce the claim itself because

he along with anyone even watching the campaign knew how harmful (and possibly dangerous, with all the religious fanatic gun-nutters out there who hated him already just for being black) these innuendos against Obama were.

[cascadiance]

61. So why does HE have a black spokesperson who he *hired* and Hillary hasn't *hired* one?

Ignoring that aren't you.

And what issues is he "dissing" Obama on? You need to be more specific. He and many of us Bernie supporters have supported Obama on many things such as giving us a start on health care coverage with the ACA, and also the Iran deal (which I wrote about publicly to support).

But if you are criticizing him for criticizing his policies on free trade (fast track, TPP, etc.) or having a DOJ that cuts "deals" with Wall Street instead of prosecuting ANY of them for the big financial meltdown of 2008 they CRIMINALLY caused, then I'm sorry, but Bernie is doing his job in representing progressive and Democratic Party values in criticizing those stances. Call that dissing if you like, but we want to be proud of a government working for all of us, not just worship a man no matter what he does. We're not Republicans that try to criticize him for everything in so many ways that he doesn't deserve, even if he used Republicans to pass the Fast Track bill who he couldn't have passed without their bigger majority of support in congress to do so.

There's a picture of him and his wife walking across a bridge in Selma with John Lewis. There have been many other times that he's worked with black Americans and supporting them, and many have supported him like Keith Ellison, etc. You just selectively ignore those things and try to "slam" him in ways you are basically making stuff up about, because you have no real valid reasons to criticize him, other than for some reason you just don't like him.

[bravenak]

76. John Lewis endorsed Hillary

[cascadiance]

85. But he did walk with Lewis, did he not?

Your criticism was what Bernie did or didn't do for POC. That is John Lewis's action in endorsing Hillary. We don't know the dynamics behind endorsements these days! Money talks in a lot of ways, even for very good people, and its hard to make a complete judgement on people's actions these days with such a corrupt system we live under.

Bernie seems about as authentic to me as it gets as far as politicians go in what he campaigns on and then at least tries to get done, and is one of the few politicians whose actions aren't bought by others.

Americans want that. Even though many of us hate Trump too, his big draw is that he also is one of the few Republicans that isn't "bought by other people". Now he is one of the wealthy himself who likely has bought other people and their actions, but being his own man probably speaks to a lot of Republicans who are also fed up with the corruption we have now.

[bravenak]

89. That means not much

Lieberman marched.

His issues is he does not deal directly with us face to face like he does with you guys. He is not my type

[cascadiance]

101. He looks to be face to face in this picture. Why do you feel the need to lie about him?

Him not being your type is an issue you have to deal with. If you want to share why, and why we should feel the same way, please share, but I'm not hearing any substantive criticism from you at all, other than you don't like him. If it were me saying the same things about Obama and not being specific about why I criticize him selectively (which I do), then many might call me a racist. I'm not saying you are, but to have rational discussions, it helps when you have specific criticisms that are valid. Haven't heard any yet.

[bravenak]

104. This is a bad way to get more votes

Hillary has millions of photos with black folks, does Bernie?

[cascadiance]

121. As first lady she was one of the most photographed people in this country...

Just because there are more photos out there of her with other people doesn't necessarily mean she's meeting them far more than Bernie, or that Bernie somehow isn't meeting that many of them.

If you want to sell me more, perhaps a good homework assignment is to ask her, or one of your friends ask her, if she actually gives any of you access to question her, why she supported Barry Goldwater, when Goldwater campaigned AGAINST the Civil Rights Act of the 60's and voted against it. Has she ever tried to explain why that issue didn't make a difference in whether she supported him or not? An honest answer of what was going through her mind then on what her rationale was for supporting him might help a lot of us feel more comfortable supporting her, and perhaps more comfortable feeling that many POC have genuine reasons to support her, instead of these unexplained holes that seem pretty wide to us and are areas where Bernie is far more consistent and on the right side of things for both POC and the rest of America throughout his career.

[bravenak]

124. You need my vote more than I need yours

Its your job to convince ME. Trashing her makes me irritated so thats a bad tactic

[RobinA]

267. Actually, No Candidates

need anybody's vote. The voter needs the right president to push his or her interests. Votes shouldn't be rewards for good behavior, they should be based on the voter's idea of who would be the best President. Making votes rewards for the 'right" behavior is what leads to the widespread pandering we have today.

[Empowerer]

227. This was not a "March" in the true sense of the word

Sanders attended the President Obama's speech and march commemorating Bloody Sunday, but he didn't march alongside John Lewis. He was far back in the crowd with 100 other Senators and Members of Congress. After the event, Rep. Lewis posed for pictures with numerous people who had attended the event, including Bernie Sanders and his family.

[cascadiance]

228. So, if Hillary is so much better, was she even AT this event?

Like I said, I'm not trying to equivalence Lewis's experience with Sanders'. I'm merely saying that he works with him and has good relationships with Lewis, as demonstrated by him being there, even if it was just a photo op that you claim it to be.

The topic of this thread is whether Bernie is doing enough for POC, and implying that Hillary is doing more than he.

The thread really hasn't made the case that Hillary's reached out better or been more consistent with her support than Bernie.

Maybe Bernie hasn't done EVERYTHING he could to reach out to AA, and may have missed out on some opportunities. I would argue that this is an unfair criticism, as arguably no one has accomplished that. Certainly not Hillary. He's hired an AA spokesperson, that Hillary doesn't have on her staff, and instead of being given credit for responding positively to feedback that he needed to do more through that action, he's criticized for not having taken that step earlier. Damned if he does, and damned if he doesn't.

[Empowerer]

122. Charlton Heston marched with Dr. King

[bravenak]

127. See?

some people did it for show. Not that I'm accusing bernie of just trying to get attention to start his carreer and being a follower rather than a true believer

[cascadiance]

172. So have Hillary or many others like Heston done this "for show"?

Are you still going to say that Bernie getting ARRESTED was just for show in his work for desegregation, etc.? HUH?

You can CLAIM he just did all what he does for show! But I can argue that he's done things more with consequences like shown here than Hillary has, and you still haven't answered my question of why Hillary was so great in her support for AA when she campaigned for Barry Goldwater. Avoiding that one clearly!

[bravenak]

177. I did not claim he just paid his bail and did not get beat like black folks

So thats why we are not impressed at all and do not think it makes him our hero

[cascadiance]

187. So WTF is he supposed to go do. Ask police to beat him or shoot him?

Yes, most white people know that we've had white privilege and haven't had the same experience that black people do. It is a bit unfair to criticize someone who's trying to reach out to you and has done so for all of his life *CONSISTENTLY* to say he doesn't measure up as someone that can help as an elected official to make change for you.

You aren't expecting Hillary Clinton to get arrested or beat up are you? So you ARE using a double standard here in judging him harshly when you don't use the same criteria or even close to the same criteria for measuring Clinton.

Therefore, most people you try to talk to here can't understand your reasoning when you don't have a fair measure on issues where there's a clear reason that we can understand that you vote for Clinton over Sanders, other than she's a woman and he's a man, where she clearly is and he is not by that measure. Not much he can do about that though, so if that's the sole point of measurement, then arguably that is sexist too.

[bravenak]

188. Why should we be in ecstasies over it just because some other people want us to be?

And the fact of them telling us that he did so much for us like we are children is off putting he did nothing for me honey i do for me just like you do for you he did his job i do not need to be all into him for votes he cast or some arrest of his i have no idea why i am constantly told how much he has sone for me just because i am black it is rude he did not raise me.

[cascadiance]

194. So, stop avoiding this. Why do you support someone who campaigned for Goldwater...

... who campaigned against and voted against the Voting Rights Act, if a politician's stances on civil rights issues are so important to you.

You continue to avoid answering that question, because it calls in to question your rationale for both criticizing Bernie, which you've made a campaign strategy of doing, or supporting Hillary, which you don't seem to want to explain much why you like her and why you think we should like her, if your goal is really to try and sell Hillary to us as a candidate, and not be here just to start arguments.

[bravenak]

203. I give a crap about auh20

I was not born yet! You know what shit I did at that age? As she was? I was doing shit you cannot imagine. Gangs, all types of stuff. Why would I judge her for THAT? I was far worse. I Make her look like a fucking SAINT.

We, black people are not so judgemental. Why? Because we are the most judged. We see her judged. We stand with her. Soon if she keeps getting trashed we will decide she IS BLACK.

[cascadiance]

208. I wasn't born yet when FDR was alive. Or Hitler for that matter.

But I can appreciate the many things FDR did, and study his life to support many of the great things he did, and even to question some of the things he did like Japanese internment camps. I can appreciate how he had to deal with a coup that was stopped by Smedley Butler then, and the culprits not punished much like rich people aren't punished today for crimes like that. And of course our history books have had that part of our history censored too. But that doesn't stop me for hearing those parts of history and looking in to them more when I hear them.

I'd like to think young people would have the desire to understand the history of our times too here and the people they are electing, even if they weren't born when they took those actions they did. I was just a toddler when Bernie got arrested then too.

For someone who claims not to be judgmental, you sure seem that way towards Bernie Sanders. I understand that you like Clinton. Not sure I understand the reasons for that, but you've made that clear. You're entitled to feel that way, even if you don't want to explain why. But if you want to be selectively judgmental towards Sanders, and not use the same sort of measurement that could be used to criticize Clinton, you should expect others to take issue with you, when they feel you are unfairly judging Sanders publicly. I think we are all capable of a reasoned discussion here, but it helps if someone can offer big issues that they see clear differences of policy between the two candidates and can explain them well. That's the kind of approach that can sell people. But many of us feel that this kind of discussion isn't happening unfortunately.

[bravenak]

210. Sanders judges Obama mercilessly

I have Os back

[cascadiance]

215. Explain, or otherwise, you're just criticizing Bernie mercilessly without basis!

When Sanders criticizes Obama on occasion, he does so with good reason as I've noted above.

You still have said NOTHING about any specifics of where Bernie has criticized Obama unfairly. Without that your comment is baseless!

[bravenak]

219. Somehow people think that we care why he judges Obama mercilessly

We dont. Just that he opposes him and republicans oppose him but Hillary supports him just like we do.

Their positions are both fine. She is to the left of mainstream as is he. I am to the left of Stein. Why the hell do I care if he is five clicks closer in ideology to me when nothing he ir I or Stein wants will get anywhere?

And on top of being to the right of me, his grassroots is not attractive to me, his style is irritating to me,he lacks a specific plan to get anything through. I have never taken that test and found even one politician to the left of me in american government and i never will. Should I be outraged?

From way over here? They both look like moderates so ut will be settling regardless. So settle for the stranger who had no clue how to connect with me and rails against the only president who i have ever liked i do not love fdr he did not do anti lynching. He left us out of the new deal and we still had segregated millitary and everything else.

So folks come hawking the 'new FDR' to me and I am fully skeptical. His colorblind messaging has turned me right off and drawn folks I do not consider allies ever and do not want to join his group.

I know Hillary will make mistakes but she will admit it and try to change. He never changes he knows everything already and if we so not agree we are just ignorant and against our own best interests as decided by his base.

[cascadiance]

226. You are still talking in generalities and not specifics...

Saying someone is to the left or the right doesn't explain your rationale for saying that to be so. You also still don't have any specifics on how he opposes Obama mercilessly. Where does Hillary support him that you do that Bernie doesn't? THAT would be a very interesting answer to hear you give.

I'll say a few things that has me supporting him more.
1) Hillary supports guest worker programs like H-1B and H-2B and takes a lot of money from outsourcing companies like Tata that arguably has her talking in favor of that. But she's avoided taking ANY public stance on these programs since the 2008 election when she "strongly supported it" (in her own words). These programs hurt the foreign workers too, who are steered towards these temporary "cheap labor" versus real immigration, so it's not that he doesn't support real immigration, which he constantly has said he's supported fully, without the pollution of guest labor programs (NON-immigrant issues) in these bills. Bernie is against the way these guest labor programs have been set up to put in place "cheap labor" for corporate sector benefit.
2) Hillary has supported problematic trade deals which her husband has signed in the past in NAFTA, etc. and has helped discuss/negotiate TPP, etc. as SOS that has also taken away our jobs. She's also avoided talking about positions on them as well, until right before the debates started. Bernie is against these trade deals.
3) She had many on her staff that helped lobby for Keystone oil pipeline, and even though she came out against it (once she knew that there was a pathway for WTO or later ISDS courts to restore it without her help).

I could go on and on, but if you bring up specific issues, I can explain why I feel better about Bernie's position on them than hers, or if I can't, I'll acknowledge it is something I need to look at. Many of these issues aren't specific to people of color, but affect them as much of the rest of us who aren't rich, or who have to live on a planet soon to be ravaged by climate change.

Bernie cares about keeping people out of prison for non-violent crimes such as drug possession, that affect people of color a lot more, and therefore when he speaks of ending the drug war, etc., he's doing more than other politicians (like Hillary) who want to keep more people in prison, and therefore keep more POC in prison.

To see how much the war on drugs was actually a war on POC that Nixon started, read more here from Thom Hartmann's show at the end of last year. Nixon's lawyer and aide John Ehrlichman's comments quoted here are pretty to the point on this. It also speaks on how we at places like DU are being divided as we are here in this thread.

http://www.alternet.org/drugs/big-lie-war-against-drugs

Here's the video clip on this.

[questionseverything]

269. this should be an op

hc wants to continue this

[wildeyed]

195. By these standards,

so did my Mom. But actually, she just went to a protest.

[wildeyed]

190. What does "walked with John Lewis"

even mean to you?

THIS is the walk that John Lewis took.



Oh look, here he is with another Freedom Rider after being beaten by segregationist.



Here he is in the hospital after having his skull fractured by police.

:large

Oh look, being pulled off a stool as he is trying to integrate a lunch counter.



There are pretty much endless photos of John Lewis beaten and bloody during Civil Rights once you start looking.

So no, Sanders did not "walk" with John Lewis. He showed up at the March on Washington. So did my MOM. But she never claimed that she "walked" with King

[cascadiance]

202. Oh I missed where you said Hillary Clinton was in these pictures?

Aren't you all trying to make the case that Bernie hasn't done enough where Hillary has? Why are you posting these photos here, if there isn't something that Hillary has done that Bernie has done to provide some rationale for criticizing Bernie for no being in those shots.

I have NO criticisms of John Lewis here. He has always been a great person in our history and putting his life on the line for what he believed in. Not many can claim that.

As I've noted in another post on this thread. I acknowledge that many people of color have had experiences that someone with white privilege can't understand or fully appreciate. I get that, and I try hard to be understanding of every person of color I meet on issues they've dealt with in their lives that I haven't.

But if you really want a movement where you can get other white people to work with you and work for you as leaders, then you have to meet them half way and appeal to their sense of understanding, not berate them because they don't have the same experience you do. If you don't give them any room to meet you half way, you'll not accomplish anything without a violent revolution. Most of us in this party don't want that.

I've had experiences in my childhood that I'd wager not many people of my age had experiences of too before 9/11. My seventh grade teacher's boyfriend was kidnapped by Turkish terrorists when I lived in that country. Fortunately he got away, but many other incidents out there didn't end so fortunately at that time. Living under martial law isn't always a picnic. At that time, the most anyone heard about terrorism was when someone hijacked an airliner to Cuba. I don't hold that against people, but I can get a little how some here feel when they are surrounded by those that don't have such experiences.

Even though white, throughout my school life, I was a racial or national minority until my sophomore year in high school. I lived in AA part of DC where my best friend was AA there. Moved to Hawaii where I was a minority amongst ethnic Asians there, and lived overseas in Thailand and Turkey after that. For me, moving back to the states and going to a school where there wasn't many minorities actually felt odd to me at the time. The prejudice felt odd to me then too. That is why I move to more diverse communities because I enjoy living with a diverse community of people, and hope that we can have more global community sense of that some day. I hope that others that have had to deal with the traditional white majority culture that has created a lot of stress can find ways to put that aside for a newer atmosphere of inclusion too.

I see Bernie wanting that, and helping us move to a society that empowers 99% of us to do that if we all choose to make that happen.

[wildeyed]

209. We are not talking about Hillary Clinton, are we?

And you absolutely implied that John Lewis had been manipulated.

You claimed that Sanders "walked with John Lewis". That is insulting if you think about what that phrase means and what John Lewis actually did. No one expects Sanders or hardly anyone to have the experiences that Lewis had. He is a HERO. By definition, that is a rare and special designation. Do not try to attach your candidate's reputation to that. Sanders is on the right side of civil rights. He supports civil rights. He went to a few protests. That is all good and fine. But he DID NOT walk with John Lewis. Freedom rides and the Edmund Pettus Bridge are a WHOLE different can of worms. Respect that.

[cascadiance]

214. I'm sorry but that pictured showed him walking and Lewis was walking next to him...

Perhaps we don't share a common concept of semantics, but he was walking with Sanders the way the term "walking" is commonly defined.

Now, did I imply that Lewis was manipulated? I was implying that MANY congress people, of all colors, have been manipulated by money these days. It's hard to be an elected official and not be affected by the nuances of Citizen's United campaign spending. I also noted that many decent people are also affected by that. I think of Elizabeth Warren as a decent person who stands for my issues as my sig indicates here. I completely understand her not endorsing Bernie or anyone yet, as the money game dictates a lot how she has to act here too, to ensure that she still has maximal power in affecting change she's working hard for in the Senate.

The same for John Lewis. I believe both he and Bernie's family get along fine, but there are probably a number of reasons why he has endorsed Clinton at this point that doesn't necessarily mean that he doesn't respect or like Bernie. If he didn't, he wouldn't have been in that photo.

You say that we aren't talking about Clinton. If we aren't, then why was this thread started. If Sanders wasn't running against Clinton, you know this thread wouldn't have been started. She IS the context, and when someone tries to minimize the context to criticize Bernie for things that comparatively, Hillary should have more to explain than he does on those topics, then it is completely relevant to bring up her experience as a point of comparison. That is the whole point of an election. To pick who is best to lead us. Not to just selectively beat up one of the candidates and conveniently ignore the other.

[bravenak]

211. Love you thanks

[wildeyed]

216. :mwah:

Snack time

[vegetarian x]

277. Nicely said. I was in a time warp and discovered it.

[Bohemianwriter]

183. As if Hillary really does?

She cerftainly didn't care much when pushing for a crime bill used to send pot smokers in prison as "dangerous criminals", did she?

.html

I for one do not trust anyone who's been wrong 4 times regarding war, and pushes to punish whistleblowers.
All I am asking is that people not vote for anyone whose wrap sheet in disregarding human lives by pushing for unecessary wars be given the vote of confidence.

So in what way has Bernie Sanders harmed minority communities the last 50 years that makes you trust Hillary Clinton more than Bernie Sanders? Because he hasn't "reached out" like the Clinton's do at elections and then sign bills that specifially targets African-Americans when elections are won?

[Warren DeMontague]

10. Michelle Alexander: Here's Why Black People Should Think Twice Before Voting For Hillary Clinton

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/entry/hillary-clinton-black-voters_us_56ba797fe4b08ffac12328f0

[bravenak]

17. She has no control over our votes

People care more what their pastor says. Or Beyonce.

[Warren DeMontague]

49. People generally have very little control over what other people do, at the end of the day

It drives the control freaks bonkers.

[Shandris]

15. No way. You mean that people who rely on the Establishment to get paid thanks to the...

...bulwark strategy will attack the non-Establishment participant the moment he starts doing well?

Color me shocked.

[bravenak]

22. Looks. Like he has few friends among our politicians

We actually like OUR POLITICIANS. So please yes trash them for Bernie, it helps him. Ever so much with us.

[Blue_In_AK]

69. Is it always "us and them" with you, Brave?

[bravenak]

79. No. It's always them vs us

We get screwed from all sides and they act like it's just something we deserve. Because black people like me deserve to be trashed and told they are ignorant and stupid and that if they dont do what those people want then the world will explode and it's all our stupid ignorant stockholm syndromed faults.

Its fine to Treat us like crap then turn around and say, vote for our guy and ignore the way we treat you or else you are stupid.

[azurnoir]

16. we're told that Vermont the state that Sanders is representing as a Senator as a Congressman

is like 99% white then complains because as a rep from this state he wasn't at forefront of Black issues, does anyone see a problem with this, if his constituents were so white why would he be leading the way on what Jeffries calls Black issues?

Myself I'll go with Rep Keith Ellison

[bravenak]

19. Well this is not about your vote, is it?

It about black peoples votes.

[azurnoir]

21. oh exxxxxcussssse me I mentioned Keith Ellison who supports Bernie Sanders

[bravenak]

24. One guy

[azurnoir]

71. seems there's growing number of "one guy's"

[wildeyed]

93. If he wants to lead a country

as diverse as the USA, he should have gotten straight about the issues that POC face, in THIS decade, and the leaders they respect. in THIS decade, long before he started campaigning.

[azurnoir]

99. Tell that stuf to Keith Ellison and Ta-Nehisi Coates both of whom are supporting Sanders

maybe you could school them or something

[wildeyed]

138. Pretty sure they already know.

Coates has written in great detail about the problems with Sanders campaign. We are not talking about the same thing. You know that, right?

[polly7]

107. He seems to have had firm beliefs on all of this for decades.

https://berniesanders.com/issues/racial-justice/

It was pretty easy to find.

[wildeyed]

128. That has been re-written,

and recently too. I know because I actually read it at the beginning of his campaign.

[polly7]

132. Oh ..... of course it was. nt.

[wildeyed]

160. Also, the part about how he didn't hire

any POC to be on his original campaign team until the #BLM debacle.

And the site has changed. You can actually check that.

[polly7]

164. Sure. But I don't need to, as even I'm aware of his strong, unbending record

on civil rights.

[wildeyed]

192. Oh.... of course.

Facts schmacts, right?

[polly7]

193. Facts matter. Try some. nt.

[wildeyed]

196. I did.

The website changed. He didn't hire any POC until after #BLM meltdown. Facts You go now.

[polly7]

198. I've looked at his record and the ratings given to him based on his votes.

He wins on civil rights issues ................... hands fucking down.

[wildeyed]

201. Still changed the website.

Too much rhetoric and too few action steps, IMO. But it might be a TAD less tone deaf now.

And perhaps he would have been less tone deaf out of the gate if he had bothered to hire or consult with people who were from the community. If he wanted their votes. But he didn't.

You can cursed if you want, but it won't change the facts.

OK, you go now. But try a different line of reasoning. You can't win with this one if I don't let you change the subject. And I won't. So try something else, 'k?

[polly7]

206. He didn't want their votes? Got a link for that FACT?

Last edited Thu Feb 11, 2016, 09:49 AM - Edit history (4)

What 'steps', precisely has he not taken over the decades? He's always been against capital punishment which disproportionately affects blacks - should he have volunteered to switch places with one of them? How's Clinton on that?

He is for reform wrt LE and racial profiling - what EXACTLY has Clinton done that he hasn't?

Against the prison pipeline system - how's Clinton on that - does she take any funding from anyone associated with such a horrendous practice? What EXACTLY has she done to help - it's a horrible, ugly, life-destroying problem, I'm sure she's done SOMETHING?

For legalizing marijuana - for which POC are again disproportionately imprisoned - what's Clinton's stance on that? Does she admit that these non-violent crimes contribute in large part to fill these for-profit prisons? If so, do you have a date or link to it?

Against POVERTY - which is at the root of powerlessness, hunger, inability to get an education and better employment, often the cause of hopelessness and resorting to lifestyles and practices that end up sending many of these people to prison - any differences between Sanders and Clinton on who should have it all and who doesn't fucking matter?

I'd love some answers. These are just a few things I thought of quickly. Your turn, one by one, if you don't mind.

Here's a great video I just saw brought here by Willy T:

http://www.democraticunderground.com/12511197383

And another:

(I guess I can understand why you wouldn't even bother reading my post - truth hurts Oh, and WHY did those 'super-predators she wants to 'bring to heel' 'end up that way'? - any thoughts on that, at least? Could it have been in large part because of policies her husband pushed through?).

http://www.thenation.com/article/hillary-clinton-does-not-deserve-black-peoples-votes/

[wildeyed]

212. Was he was completely oblivious

to the need to consult black people about the problems of the black community when running for president. Or was it that he didn't care about getting their votes? I dunno. You got me there.

I didn't read the rest of your post because you are changing the subject again. Facts, remember?

[polly7]

213. LOL. I never expected anything truthful back ......... no worries. nt.

[wildeyed]

217. LOL. I never expected you to learn how to debate fairly.

But I still tried. No worries.....

[polly7]

260. Nah, you didn't try.

You posted your version and a 'fact' you couldn't back up. I reminded you of his civil rights record, the ratings he earned over the years for it because of his votes and standing up for ALL people on the issues and you couldn't even bother to answer any questions. That's not trying ......... it's throwing out shit then running away.

[wildeyed]

265. The fact that his website has changed is a fact.

The fact that he had no AAs (or women) on his original campaign team is also a fact. You allowed yourself to get backed into a corner on this (unforced error, always check facts before posting, google is your friend), refuse to accept proof and then, instead of admitting your error, attempt to change the topic by bringing up unrelated facts and attempt to divert by attacking Clinton.

Logical fallacy ref says "There were two penalties committed on the play. Illegal goalpost move and strawman! 5-yard penalty! Repeat first down!"




You lose.

You could have won or at least tied by backtracking a bit, admitting the error and finding a new line of argument. That door was wide open the entire time. I even pointed at it for you. But instead you just keep blindly pounding on an indefensible line of reasoning.

Here, I will rewrite a post for you so you can do better next time.

In response to #196 (I restated the facts), you replied with an attempt to change the subject to Sander's voting record. Since we had been 'round that track a few times already, it was obvious that I wasn't going to be deflected. Instead of continuing with a losing tactic, you could have tried the following:

"While it is true that Sanders did not initially hire AA campaign advisers, after the #BLM incident, he did work quickly and effectively to remedy that situation. The website change reflects his growth on the topic and the deep concern Sanders has for the AA community."

Now that statement is still debatable, but MUCH harder for me to score points on.

You're welcome!

[bravenak]

109. You about to get name dropped something fierce!!!!!!

[wildeyed]

142. Yep.

Killer Mike and I get m&m's, right?

[bravenak]

144. Damn straight!

And almond joy for me and BunB

[Nanjeanne]

18. What a stupid strategy

What can't they simply tell voters why Hillary is the right choice. They lose all credibility when they trash her opponent.

[bravenak]

20. His strategy of not building a relationship is SO MUCH SMARTER

[Nanjeanne]

29. Well the black people who support him

May differ with you. But - whatever you want to think is perfectly ok by me.

[bravenak]

31. I have no idea why that matters

[Nanjeanne]

33. I know - you have no idea.

[bravenak]

36. I know how to attract black people

[Nanjeanne]

38. Great. I'm sure the Clinton team enjoys having you on the ram. Congrats.

[Armstead]

23. Once again the Clinton Magic makes good people say obnoxious thongs

[bravenak]

25. Mirror

[wildeyed]

103. don't mind me, but.....

[bravenak]

108. They are funny, huh?

[Vattel]

44. I have seen some obnoxious thongs on the beach.

But not as obnoxious as the things that are being said about Bernie.

[wildeyed]

115. Implying that people who support Clinton

are being influenced by nefarious magic is an obnoxious thong.

[Bread and Circus]

28. Should it be titled "Black Leaders Lie" instead?

This:

"It's good to have new friends, I would prefer to have a true friend," Jeffries said. "Hillary Clinton has been a true friend to the African American community for the last 40 years."

Is just a lie.

[bravenak]

32. Call our beloved and respected politicians liars, yes

We do not hate ours. We want more of them.

[Bread and Circus]

40. Get a grip.

[bravenak]

41. That helps too

[Bohemianwriter]

199. Hillary seems to be in a constant lying mode...

But it seems to me to call out "our beloved and respected politicians liars" is too disrespectful.

Even when they do.

Never mind that. Bernie hasn't "reached out the way we consider respectful!" So let's join the other team. The team that continued Reagans' drug war for another 20 years.

I want to endorse anyone who got me sent to Yugoslavia 23 years ago!

Can't get enough of political dynasties and hawkish foreign policies that will not end good.

I don't think enough war books have been written.

[cali]

30. way to go team hilly. This is bad strategy on so many levels

[bravenak]

35. I'm sure you understand us much better than the people we ourselves choose to lead

[cali]

47. I understand political strategy. This one is lousy for

several reasons, irrespective of whether this coordinated attack damages Bernie. And sorry, being a minority elected leader doesn't mean that white people can't criticize an elected official. I was in no way criticizing the people who elected them.

But you know that.

[Vattel]

34. Same old distortions

Funniest criticism:

Rutherford faulted Sanders for voting in favor of a 1994 Violent Crime Control and Law Enforcement Act, which has been blamed for helping to usher in an era of mass incarceration. Former president Bill Clinton, who signed the bill into law, has expressed regret for the consequences of the legislation.

To quote Luminous Animal:

The record clearly shows he (Bernie) thought it was a shitty bill and would result in more human being thrown in jail. The record clearly shows that he voted for it because it contained the Violence Against Women Act.

Hillary was all about 'super-predators' and more prisons and more police. Bernie was all about giving human beings resources to get a leg up… a fighting chance… good schools, good housing, a robust social safety net. Not prison.

But to the Hillary camp, history does not matter.

[bravenak]

37. Yiu think that answer will shut this whole thing down because YOU and LA are fine with it?

Hahahahahaha!

I knew this would be brought up after I mass emailed it around and around.

[Vattel]

52. No, I realize that you don't care about the truth here.

As you have admitted, you don't like Clinton, but you got your feelings hurt by some Sanders supporters and you feel the need to seek revenge on them by attacking Sanders.

[bravenak]

53. Only you guys know truth. The rest of us must be ignorant

[Vattel]

55. More dishonest than ignorant.

[bravenak]

161. More real than unicorns

[arcane1]

43. That would've been a great rebuttal to an honest post n/t

[cali]

50. Right. But it's pointless.

[mcar]

58. Ouch

That's gonna leave a mark.

[Jarqui]

62. Sanders works for civil rights for more than 50 years and that's his

reward?

"Bernie Sanders as mayor, as a member of the House, as a member of the United States Senate, has been missing in action on issues that are important to the African Americans," said Rep. Hakeem Jeffries, a Democrat from New York. "There’s no credibility to the things that are being said at the twilight of his political career."

What an insult.

http://votesmart.org/candidate/evaluations/27110/bernie-sanders
1995-1996 NAACP - Positions 91%
1999 NAACP - Positions 100%
2000 NAACP - Positions 100%
2001 NAACP - Positions 93%
2001-2002 NAACP - Positions 94%
2003 NAACP - Positions 95%
2003-2004 NAACP - Positions 90%
2005-2006 NAACP - Positions 97%
2005 NAACP - Positions 96%
2007-2008 NAACP - Civil Rights and Social Justice Issues 100%
2007 NAACP - Positions 100%
2009 NAACP - Positions 95%
2009-2010 NAACP - Positions 100%
2011 NAACP 100%
2014 NAACP - Positions 100%

I think when we last looked at that his record was better than Clintons.

Similar strong record with ACLU, Leadership Conference on Civil, Human Rights and others.

He fights for them for over fifty years, protests, gets arrested, president of Congress of Racial Equality, campaigns for Jesse Jackson in '84 & '88, relentless advocate for their economic issues and they attack him and disparage his efforts?

Try and objectively write a list of who in congress has tried to do more for blacks over all those years. I can assure you, it's not a long list and the Clintons are not on it.

There is no fairness in the piece to balance it. No context or rebuttal. It's has been bought and paid for by the Clintons.

You know what is revealing? This is a hit piece to get the black vote, right? How many blacks read the Washington Post?

WaPo Demographics
• 54% earn household incomes of $75,000+, and 35% earn household incomes of $100,000+.3
• 72% are college graduates, and 42% have a post graduate degrees.3
• 34% make or influence business decisions.3

[Armstead]

65. Yes....They could have endorsed Clinton without the insults at a good man...

Who has always been on their side, more than most.

[wildeyed]

197. Oh that poor man!

Running for president and people are SO mean to him. The horror!

[Armstead]

239. Not a poor man -- But doesn;t deserve to be lied about

[Empowerer]

91. Casting a vote is NOT "fighting for" or "working for"

[Jarqui]

238. That's hardly all that he did.

[casperthegm]

163. Wow, those are outstanding facts

I'm really surprised and disappointed that those supporting Hillary's position on this topic aren't responding to your post. I suppose it's difficult to challenge, given the overwhelming facts presented. Well done. Thank you for posting this and please keep doing so, as I suspect this kind of disparagement toward Sanders will continue to be perpetuated by those who either are unaware or purposely trying to mislead.

[Gothmog]

63. Great article

[bravenak]

110. Thank you

[ismnotwasm]

70. K&R

[fun n serious]

92. I like this part...

"It's good to have new friends, I would prefer to have a true friend," Jeffries said. "Hillary Clinton has been a true friend to the African American community for the last 40 years."

[bravenak]

95. Thank you.

We do not like Johnny come latelies. This is actually a good thing for the party to hash this out.

[fun n serious]

105. Indeed...

Makes me think about what else could be phony about this guy Sanders.

[bravenak]

106. Me too

I find it all phony and rehearsed

She makes mistakes because she is speaking freely. No rehersals to talk to us.

[fun n serious]

112. No empty promises she knows she can not keep.

It's harder than you think, Mr. Sanders!

[bravenak]

116. He acts like oprah

You get a free blah! You get a free blah blah! You get a free blah bloo!

[RobinA]

268. Seriously????

I lean Hilary and that's still a jawdropper.

[Kentonio]

255. That'll be the royal 'we' I suppose?

Just yesterday you were saying that no politician ever changes anything for the better for PoC, yet now apparently someone new is a big no for you. That seem consistent even to you?

[Agony]

94. Lotsa people say dumb shit

[bravenak]

97. And lotsa people do not want anything to do with dumb shit sayers

[Agony]

145. Right! Like I said.

You go girl!

[SidDithers]

133. DU rec...nt

Sid

[yourout]

139. I bet they is some serious arm twisting by...

The party leaders going on.

[bravenak]

141. There is actually no need

Bernie did not make friends with them. They are ESTABLISHMENT. He opposes them on principle. Not big surprise that they oppose him right BACK

[Dawson Leery]

154. They will protect their turf and the gains made against

this outsider who desires the destruction of the world's oldest political party.

[bravenak]

157. Damn straight!

They want war against the establishment but cry when the empire strikes back, lol. Duh. They were not going to just hand the keys to bernie just cause he yells.

[frylock]

233. And that is what's most important, after all.

The welfare of the Party. Fuck the people. We must preserve the Party at all costs.

[Gothmog]

236. If you are running to be the nominee of the party, then you should care about the party

That includes down ballot candidates

[frylock]

237. What evidence do you have that he doesn't care about the party or down ballot candidates?

[msanthrope]

249. Um....can you provide evidence that he has raised

money for down-ballot Dems?

[frylock]

262. You made the accusation. Prove it.

[msanthrope]

263. HRC raised 18 million for the DNC, Bernie 0. Downballot Dems need cash.

http://www.dailykos.com/stories/2016/1/2/1465523/-Hillary-Clinton-Outraises-Bernie-Sanders-in-Q4-Sanders-raises-nothing-for-Dem-Party

[frylock]

264. So money is caring?

Prove that Bernie doesn't care about Democrats.

[mgmaggiemg]

152. great post thanks ;)

[bravenak]

159. Glad you came to post!

We need more posters since we all just blah blah to each other too much.

[shawn703]

162. Establishment supports establishment

Who is really surprised?

[Go Vols]

166. Not I

[Lucky Luciano]

165. Can't get more swiftboaty than this. Not possible. nt

[bravenak]

167. You don't think I can?

I hope this is not a wager. I can get faster I type superfast.

I shall find another article right now for you and post it!

[SwampG8r]

230. Is that your intention?

Is what youre doing here? Swiftboatting bernie sanders?

[Lucky Luciano]

232. If you think that is the moral thing to do, go for it. nt

[GoneFishin]

168. Hillary supporters slam Bernie? Big shocker. What's new?

[thereismore]

169. The fact that there were many people marching does NOT diminish the value

of any individual's participation! And here I was, thinking that black people know justice from injustice. Shame on you Hazel Dukes for saying this filth and all of you who agree with her.

[bravenak]

179. The fact that we were already there and it was about us and our leaders who suffered the racism

While doing it sonetimes to their deaths just makes it so that we are not impressed.

[thereismore]

182. I don't follow. Maybe rephrase? nt

[jalan48]

174. Hillary must be frantic from the looks of this.

And to think she appeared to have the nomination locked up just a few months ago....

[MellowDem]

175. I guess the article is short...

But, Clinton's been a longtime friend? Why no details? And why not explain some of her less friendly times? Like dog whistles as recently as 2008?

And Sanders can't be good because he lived in an overwhelmingly white state? Since when has that been a good indicator of how a politician will do for different demographics?

Really weak sauce, but what I'd expect out of the establishment that has endorsed "hard working whites" Clinton to the hilt.

[bravenak]

185. Id rather have somebody looking stupid doing the cha cha slide

Than a person who yells how much shit sucks.

He is dead boring to me for real. He does not COME TO US. Friends COME TO US AND SPEND TIME.

Some say they are friends but do nothing to show they are even one bit comfortable around us. And they are a bit tone deaf. And they have folks doing things to support them that bother and annoy and belittle us, and we do not see them telling their folks to stop because if they actually cared they might notice they are having issues with us and try to find out why and put a stop to it in some way or just maybe say stop please.

[MellowDem]

205. Hillary has come to all demographics...

and spent time with them as a more national politician, but I don't see how that makes her a good friend based on her track record.

It looks more like the opportunistic "friend" that tells you what you want to hear and then screws you over behind your back. And when a new kid comes to town, this "friend" is the one loudestly insisting that the new kid doesn't belong, and doesn't have the history that she does.

I think every politician will have supporters on the thousands of different platforms of social media that bother and annoy and belittle those they think are against them. I don't think it's right, but I don't think the politician can really do anything about that. Plenty of Clinton supporters are currently doing just that to young people, especially young women, because she is down in the polls with them. Clinton can't stop them, and in fact, can't even stop her surrogates from doing it. Even if she did decide to act.

I don't think the vast majority of voters know or care about obnoxious supporters on Internet message boards, because not many people frequent them, relative to the voting population. Some supporter straight up asking the politician whether Obama is a Muslim at a rally ala McCain 2008, that's what gets attention on supporters. Internet message boards are anonymous and there are plenty of straight up trolls as well.

If this is really one of the worst thing about Sanders, some of his supporters online, you'd think it would be something Clinton surrogates would bring up in their attacks. But, then it would open them up to every crank online that supports Clinton. I suspect it's why politicians don't really bring it up, that and they likely want those people's votes eventually.

And then there's the fact that the US is really segregated, and there are big cultural differences and can be little understanding between groups, and elections can very rawly expose those divisions that already exist. A lot of the same demographics that supported Obama now support Sanders among whites, and their feelings toward Clinton have not changed. They happened to be supporting the same candidate as many blacks that election, so the big differences that exist didn't get exposed as much, but other ones certainly did. And now it's happening again, just with a different mix of demographics. In some ways it allows for a little bit of honesty in how segregated we are as a country every 4 years, something that is otherwise ignored like the plague.

[bravenak]

207. It may seem opportunistic

But she knows she needs us and will say how IMPORTANT WE ARE. That matters a whole lot more than proclamations of how money will fix it all.

And it is not just the internet. They are absolutely the same way in person to a t. It's actually disturbing to a point where if Sanders came to my town I'd stay way way far away from anything to do with a rally. Why put myself through that? I literally get asked about welfare to my face and questioned lik a suspect about Hillary and why blacks are so stupid in person. No thanks! He has to know?!?! If not, then how can he be trusted to notice this stuff in the future? Why wont he have our backs on this, are we not as necessary to him? He cannot even say he notices and please stop? That would actually show he cares and would be 'fighting' for us. Until he gets that, he fails the test.

[MellowDem]

221. Clinton thought working class whites...

were very important to her winning in 2008 and then went on to state as such. And she was right, mathematically, they were important, but they just seemed like numbers to her that she needed to win, not like people she actually cared about. It comes across as simply pandering to whatever demographics a person needs in order to win, and not actually thinking those demographics are important to help out afterwards.

I don't think most Sanders supporters fit your description, I doubt most pay enough attention to even know that he is down significantly with black voters, much less even have an opinion on it. Online message forums will have the most impassioned supporters, and often the most informed (at least in terms of the details of primary races, of which most voters don't really know or care).

I do think most people on DU don't think they come across as rude for questioning someone on why they support so and so when that person sucks for their group (in their opinion). They think it is a legitimate question and critique. DU has been trashing many conservative whites for voting against their interests since its inception, and that same incredulity is applied everywhere, especially in primaries. There is this idea that you can indeed divine what is in the best interests of another, and therefore critique their choices. I think this can be true if people who share what their interests are, and then, through misinformation or ignorance, vote against them. But when saying it between groups, it takes on a whole other dimension, and oftentimes it is just assuming people's interests anyways, even conservative Republicans. But it's been such a repeated attack on DU against the right, its legitimacy as a critique is seen as fine, and used accordingly. If there are unfair attacks against conservatives on DU, you can bet all those same unfair strategies will be brought up come primary time.

I bet it is easy to get the impression that every supporter acts like that if that's all a person experiences. I'm sorry it has been yours. I haven't actually met a Sanders or Clinton supporter in person outside my circle of friends yet, all I see is online, but I know that's quite a distorted view. My friends are all Sanders supporters to a tee, but none are as impassioned as what I see on here, and all are fine voting for Hillary. I think that is more the norm.

[bravenak]

223. I think you have it right

The more passionate talk more and are more likely to walk up to strangers in campus and be aggressive. Not many blacks out here so they find me easy. Seems like i have a please bother me face.

Hillary ran badly last time. I think thats why her supporters are not aggressive with us. They remember and are watching the new campaign make their old mistakes.

[uponit7771]

257. Detail - she'll continue the Obama legacy, that's friend enough for a lot of blacks

[AgingAmerican]

178. "Who support Hillary Clinton"

[bravenak]

180. Awww! That means most of them dear.

[AgingAmerican]

181. According to you, 'Dear'

Rovian nonsense.

[NRaleighLiberal]

186. unrec. n/t

[uponit7771]

189. Yeah, ish just got real...

[bravenak]

191. Damn sure did

Not everybody will just sit back and let him take over

[jalan48]

200. Yeah-Hillary's in trouble. We get it.

She trotted out dino-saurs Albright and Steinem last week to convince women they MUST vote for Hillary or else they will rot in hell (or get boyfriends or something). Now Bernie is weak on race-right-that makes a lot of sense because you know he's just an old white (Jewish) guy from Vermont (Brooklyn) that's been fighting for social justice since the 60's(while Hillary was campaigning for that stalwart of race relations, Barry Goldwater).

[stevil]

204. Kicked , Recced & Bookmarked

[rbrnmw]

248. kickity kick

[dchill]

252. "Clinton has sharply pivoted to minority voters...

coming out of New Hampshire where she lost to Sanders by a more than 20-point margin."

That's a nutshell for me.

[uponit7771]

258. Clinton won the PoC vote in NH........................... too.

[betsuni]

256. K&R

[riversedge]

259. "There’s no credibility to the things that are being said at the twilight of his political career."

Ouch--but well said


https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/post-politics/wp/2016/02/10/black-leaders-who-support-hillary-clinton-slam-bernie-sanders-on-race-issues/


"Bernie Sanders as mayor, as a member of the House, as a member of the United States Senate, has been missing in action on issues that are important to the African Americans," said Rep. Hakeem Jeffries, a Democrat from New York. "There’s no credibility to the things that are being said at the twilight of his political career."

........Clinton has sharply pivoted to minority voters coming out of New Hampshire ................... The campaign announced the endorsement of South Carolina House Democratic Leader J. Todd Rutherford on Wednesday and a slew of other political leaders in the state.

Rutherford joined Jeffries in sharply denouncing Sanders for being "missing in action" on issues that matter to black voters.


"He only really started talking about issues concerning African Americans in the last 40 days," Rutherford said. "On the question of social justice for African Americans, the record is thin."...............

[workinclasszero]

271. "He only really started talking about issues concerning African Americans in the last 40 days,"

Yeah about the time Bernie stopped slamming democrats and the party...when it suited his purpose.

[CajunBlazer]

276. A big K&R

[Cha]

266. Love you brave!