Sanders is critical of Obama and not a peep. Someone critical of Sanders, though?

[Drunken Irishman]

...well, they're just ugly, nasty politicians out to smear the good Senator's name.

Crazy optics.

[Blue State Bandit]

1. Obama said "Make me do it". Bernie asks "Help me do it".

We tried with Occupy. He didn't listen.

That said, if Obama was up for re-election, he'd get my vote again, but he's not.

[MrWendel]

3. How do you...

contradict yourself in the same message?

[Hekate]

33. They do it all the freaking time. nt

[Fawke Em]

59. I was always for Obama.

Never for that fake person.

Yet, you think I make up games?

Yes, your pigs are flying.

[MrWendel]

72. Was that...

an attempt at Haiku?

[Hekate]

74. When you look at it that way, it does achieve a certain umami-ness. Awesome observation...

....on your part, Mr Wendel.

[Blue State Bandit]

75. Not a contradiction.

But nice try.

[MrWendel]

86. So...

if Obama was running again, you would vote for the guy who you had to push to do something?

[Blue State Bandit]

87. Yes. Am I not allowed to admire the man, and still have my differences of opinion?

Locking up banksters was not all I wanted. Dem F'ers wiped me out. But I got to join the renweable industry and claw my way back.

I got more with him than I would have with Hillary.

[bravenak]

2. Crazy

[bowens43]

4. Obama had his chance and turns out he wasn't what he implied that he would be.

He is a centrist who bowed down to republicans and corporations again and a again....

We still have troops on the ground in Iraq and Afghanistan, gitmo is still open, millions remain without health insurance. He did almsot nothing until it was too late, now he desperately trying to create a legacy


like hillary and pelosi , obama is part of the problem.

[Drunken Irishman]

7. What rubbish.

1) Bernie voted against closing Gitmo. Yet you blame Obama. That's absurd. Absolutely, positively absurd.

2) Bernie voted for the ACA. He didn't have to vote for it. No one forced him to vote for it. Yet he did.

3) Bernie has supported the President's proposals at a clip of over 90%. But those votes don't matter, right?

Okay. Whatever. What complete rubbish.

[pinebox]

60. See July 19th please

[Drunken Irishman]

80. See 2009 when he voted against Obama's plan to release the prisoners.

[pinebox]

82. So who is better on the issue?

Dead even.
On some things they are. The keyword is "some".

[Respect 88]

90. Bernie walks to a different tune than the majority of establishmentites

Thanks for the voting record comparison. I spent some time looking this over. It confirms that Hillary agrees with war and OMG she opposed closing Guitmo!

Hey, if you have more voting record comparisons, please post.

Peace!

[pinebox]

91. will do

[wildeyed]

13. He campaigned as a centrist,

and a slightly hawkish one at that. I knew this and was not surprised later because I read his platform and listened to his debate answers before he was elected.

He tried his best with ACA. Would have gone better if people had bothered to turnout for the midterms too. Um, Supreme Court fucked us all with Citizens United. How was he supposed to fix that? Part of the problem, IMO, is people who know how to complain a bunch, but don't know how to vote during midterms and haven't taken time to figure out how the system works.

[Drunken Irishman]

14. Obama couldn't close Gitmo due to guys like Sanders...

Who voted against closing it. But let's blame Obama.

[wildeyed]

16. See, I didn't even know that.

We hardly need the GOP, do we? Everybody, in unison, IT'S OBAMA'S FAULT!!!!!

[Drunken Irishman]

17. Yeah...

This is what he said on it back in 2009:

"A number of important questions remain unanswered regarding the rather complicated issue of not just how you close down the facility, but what you do with the prisoners,” he added. “Are there some who should be released, are there others who should be returned to their home countries, are we confident that under Bush the correct determinations were made with respect to these prisoners’ status as ‘enemy combatants’? In order to answer these questions, President Obama has appointed a high-level committee of top administration officials who will be issuing a report in the coming months. I think that it is prudent to review that plan they develop before we spend $80 million in taxpayer money.”

[Autumn]

34. Sanders and Feingold, the two biggest civil libertarians in the Senate at the time voted against it

the ACLU also opposed it and this is why

http://www.salon.com/2012/07/23/the_obama_gitmo_myth/

Long before, and fully independent of, anything Congress did, President Obama made clear that he was going to preserve the indefinite detention system at Guantanamo even once he closed the camp. President Obama fully embraced indefinite detention — the defining injustice of Guantanamo — as his own policy.

In February, 2009, the Obama DOJ told an appellate court it was embracing the Bush DOJ’s theory that Bagram detainees have no legal rights whatsoever, an announcement that shocked the judges on the panel hearing the case. In May, 2009, President Obama delivered a speech at the National Archives — in front of the U.S. Constitution — and, as his plan for closing Guantanamo, proposed a system of preventative “prolonged detention” without trial inside the U.S.; The New York Times — in an article headlined “President’s Detention Plan Tests American Legal Tradition” — said Obama’s plan “would be a departure from the way this country sees itself, as a place where people in the grip of the government either face criminal charges or walk free.” In January, 2010, the Obama administration announced it would continue to imprison several dozen Guantanamo detainees without any charges or trials of any kind, including even a military commission, on the ground that they were “too difficult to prosecute but too dangerous to release.” That was all Obama’s doing, completely independent of anything Congress did.

[Drunken Irishman]

35. Sanders opposed the closing.

Don't blame Obama for it not closing.

To quote Bernie:

"A number of important questions remain unanswered regarding the rather complicated issue of not just how you close down the facility, but what you do with the prisoners,” he added. “Are there some who should be released, are there others who should be returned to their home countries, are we confident that under Bush the correct determinations were made with respect to these prisoners’ status as ‘enemy combatants’? In order to answer these questions, President Obama has appointed a high-level committee of top administration officials who will be issuing a report in the coming months. I think that it is prudent to review that plan they develop before we spend $80 million in taxpayer money.”

What a piss-poor, politician reply on why he opposed it. Blame Bernie. Not Obama.

[Autumn]

39. Yes. He and Feingold both voted against it, that was what I said in my post

http://www.democraticunderground.com/?com=view_post&forum=1251&pid=1208428

[Drunken Irishman]

41. Glad you agree. So tell his supporters to stop blaming Obama for it not closing.

[Autumn]

42. I'm guessing you didn't read the article then

[Drunken Irishman]

43. I'm guessing you didn't read Bernie's reason for voting no.

[Autumn]

45. I did, no link included so I have no idea where you got that from, but I agree with his and

Feingolds vote against closing it. I also agree with the ACLU and their stand on opposing it. What good closing Guantanamo if there were not a plan that included ending indefinite detention

http://www.salon.com/2012/07/23/the_obama_gitmo_myth/

Long before, and fully independent of, anything Congress did, President Obama made clear that he was going to preserve the indefinite detention system at Guantanamo even once he closed the camp. President Obama fully embraced indefinite detention — the defining injustice of Guantanamo — as his own policy.

In February, 2009, the Obama DOJ told an appellate court it was embracing the Bush DOJ’s theory that Bagram detainees have no legal rights whatsoever, an announcement that shocked the judges on the panel hearing the case. In May, 2009, President Obama delivered a speech at the National Archives — in front of the U.S. Constitution — and, as his plan for closing Guantanamo, proposed a system of preventative “prolonged detention” without trial inside the U.S.; The New York Times — in an article headlined “President’s Detention Plan Tests American Legal Tradition” — said Obama’s plan “would be a departure from the way this country sees itself, as a place where people in the grip of the government either face criminal charges or walk free.” In January, 2010, the Obama administration announced it would continue to imprison several dozen Guantanamo detainees without any charges or trials of any kind, including even a military commission, on the ground that they were “too difficult to prosecute but too dangerous to release.” That was all Obama’s doing, completely independent of anything Congress did.

When the President finally unveiled his plan for “closing Guantanamo,” it became clear that it wasn’t a plan to “close” the camp as much as it was a plan simply to re-locate it — import it — onto American soil, at a newly purchased federal prison in Thompson, Illinois. William Lynn, Obama’s Deputy Defense Secretary, sent a letter to inquiring Senators that expressly stated that the Obama administration intended to continue indefinitely to imprison some of the detainees with no charges of any kind. The plan was classic Obama: a pretty, feel-good, empty symbolic gesture (get rid of the symbolic face of Bush War on Terror excesses) while preserving the core abuses (the powers of indefinite detention ), even strengthening and expanding those abuses by bringing them into the U.S./div]

[Drunken Irishman]

50. What good is blaming Obama for not closing it when Bernie voted no to do so?

He didn't cite his concerns about prolonged detention.

But that's okay. Once again, Bernie gets a pass.

[Autumn]

51. What good is blaming Sanders for not voting to close it when Obama made clear that he was going to

preserve the indefinite detention system at Guantanamo even if he closed the camp? "Bernie gets a pass"... passes be damed.

http://www.salon.com/2012/07/23/the_obama_gitmo_myth/

Long before, and fully independent of, anything Congress did, President Obama made clear that he was going to preserve the indefinite detention system at Guantanamo even once he closed the camp. President Obama fully embraced indefinite detention — the defining injustice of Guantanamo — as his own policy.

In February, 2009, the Obama DOJ told an appellate court it was embracing the Bush DOJ’s theory that Bagram detainees have no legal rights whatsoever, an announcement that shocked the judges on the panel hearing the case. In May, 2009, President Obama delivered a speech at the National Archives — in front of the U.S. Constitution — and, as his plan for closing Guantanamo, proposed a system of preventative “prolonged detention” without trial inside the U.S.; The New York Times — in an article headlined “President’s Detention Plan Tests American Legal Tradition” — said Obama’s plan “would be a departure from the way this country sees itself, as a place where people in the grip of the government either face criminal charges or walk free.” In January, 2010, the Obama administration announced it would continue to imprison several dozen Guantanamo detainees without any charges or trials of any kind, including even a military commission, on the ground that they were “too difficult to prosecute but too dangerous to release.” That was all Obama’s doing, completely independent of anything Congress did.

When the President finally unveiled his plan for “closing Guantanamo,” it became clear that it wasn’t a plan to “close” the camp as much as it was a plan simply to re-locate it — import it — onto American soil, at a newly purchased federal prison in Thompson, Illinois. William Lynn, Obama’s Deputy Defense Secretary, sent a letter to inquiring Senators that expressly stated that the Obama administration intended to continue indefinitely to imprison some of the detainees with no charges of any kind. The plan was classic Obama: a pretty, feel-good, empty symbolic gesture (get rid of the symbolic face of Bush War on Terror excesses) while preserving the core abuses (the powers of indefinite detention ), even strengthening and expanding those abuses by bringing them into the U.S./div]

[Blue_In_AK]

49. I was not disappointed, either.

It's better to keep low expectations (and I apply this to Sen. Sanders, as well, even though I'm a big fan) and then you're never let down.

[wildeyed]

79. I don't even think of it as low expectations.

Just understanding the nature of the beast. We all heard that parable about the scorpion and the river, right? You gotta understand the basic nature of politics and politicians, otherwise you will ALEAYS be disappointed. It is a dirty business. Everyone who plays competitively gets dirty sometimes.

[tech3149]

30. I voted for him even though I knew I would be disappointed

He was the best choice presented. I spent most of my life staying out of politics because I saw at 10 years old that whatever the people wanted didn't matter.
I remember reading an article during hi first primary for president that revealed what we have seen ever since. The article was based on quotes from his books. That revealed that he was a true believer in the free market fantasy. With regard to foreign policy, I expected no change since it hasn't changed from the late 40's.

[tularetom]

5. Not a peep? Are you on Uranus or something?

I've been seeing posts all day whining about how unfair, unpatriotic and above all racist it was for Sanders to even hint that Obama may have been less then a deity in the conduct of his administration.

[Drunken Irishman]

8. lol

Bullshit.

[bettyellen]

10. looks like "bow down Bernie" will be trotted out again, LOL!

all your base must worship the ESTABLISHMENT! bwaaah ha aaaa ha

[tk2kewl]

29. A couple of weeks ago it was the rage to claim that Bernie hated Obama because he suggested

in 2012 that a primary might be a good idea.

[Art_from_Ark]

46. Several posters were certainly getting their knickers in a knot over that one

[tk2kewl]

47. and it was pushed by Clinton again tonight

[brush]

52. Primary an incumbent President? What a concept

Think of the possibilities — "President Romney" would have been the result.

Who did you say thought that was a good idea?

Surely not someone running as a dem?

[frylock]

53. Do you even know what a primary is?

If Obama had been primaried by a stronger candidate, how would that candidate go on to lose to Romney?

[brush]

61. Do you even know how big an advantage an incumbent has in the GE?

If your party already has the office it's sheer foolishness to primary him.

Why on this Democratic board this Lesson 1 of Elections 101 class this escapes some people?

[frylock]

63. There was never any chance Obama was going to be primaried ffs!

Bernie's entire point was to bring Obama back to the left.

[brush]

65. Uh-huh. Sure. Right.

[frylock]

66. So you believe Obama would have lost in a primary election?

Who would have run against him and won?

[brush]

68. Sorry, I thought the sarcasm in my "Uh-huh. Sure. Right." response was obvious.

[frylock]

70. O-kayyyyyyyyy......

[brush]

84. We might not be on the same page on this but I do like the "O-kayyyyyyyyy".

Sounds like something I would write.

[tk2kewl]

55. must mean he hates obama from what i've heard

and i'm not sure how ipso facto a primary leads to an GE loss

[brush]

58. The point is, who the hell primaries an incumbent who already has the office?

Incumbents have a huge advantage in the GE.

[frylock]

64. Ed Kennedy?

[brush]

67. And did it work? Of course not.

[frylock]

69. Well there you go!

[Art_from_Ark]

71. No, it didn't work.

Kennedy was not the candidate to challenge Carter (because "Chappaquiddick" and "Mary Jo Kopechne" were still fresh memories that automatically turned a lot of voters off to him). But Kennedy entered the race because of Carter's seemingly unending problems with the Iranian hostage situation, as well as his listening to people like Henry Kissinger ("We owe it to the Shah to let him into the US&quot and Zbigniew Brzezinski.

[Bohunk68]

76. I guess you were not around in 1980 when Ted Kennedy ran against the incumbent, Jimmy Carter

[brush]

83. It didn't work. It was a bad idea then and it was a bad idea in 2012.

Why throw away the huge advantage of incumbency, of already being the President?

[Bohunk68]

88. FYI. Neither Hillary nor Bernie is an incumbent President.

Or, did that change in the last few hours?

[BlueJazz]

6. Peep

[morningfog]

9. I saw lots of peeps. Mostly silly stuff, by peeps.

[Drunken Irishman]

11. I've seen more outrage over Lewis' comment today...

...than I've seen combined outrage over Bernie Sanders' constant criticism of the President over the years. He gets a constant pass from the left. But don't ever, EVER dare be critical of him or suggest, gasp, he isn't entirely authentic. Even on the GDP page right now there are ten threads about Lewis' comment - only three about Bernie attacking Obama (including this post - and two weren't even critical of the attack). So, whatever.

[morningfog]

15. You are in a liberal site, so there is that.

It's the primary, what do you expect? The focus is he campaign, not Obama's last year.

I will take this moment to say I will miss Obama as president greatly. While I have not agreed with him 100%, he has been great. I voted for him over Hillary, and made the right choice. Scandal free. No drama Obama. Hillary on the other hand is a walking taking perpetual scandal. Not a good choice for us.

[Drunken Irishman]

21. It's been constant...even before the primary.

Hell, there's a thread right now saying if Sanders can't lecture the President - no one can. In the middle of other threads slamming Lewis for speaking his mind and lecturing Sanders.

Well if we can't lecture Sanders, none of us can speak up.

Bernie gets a pass from the left that then turns around and vilifies Obama for things we'd vilify Obama for if he did it.

In this thread already, in a post supporting Bernie, they mention how Obama failed at every turn - including closing down Gitmo.

Uh, well, it stayed open because of guys like Bernie - who voted AGAINST the President's plan to close it.

With that said, Obama isn't running for reelection. He shouldn't be Bernie's opponent. If Bernie feels his best path to the nomination is attacking the most popular Democrat in the country, well, good luck.

[morningfog]

22. Obama isn't running, but this is a change election.

That is obvious. That is how Bernie has made it to where he is. It's a needle to thread to be a Democrat and be competitive in a change election with a sitting Dem, and popular president.

[Drunken Irishman]

36. He's attacking the President.

Even tonight he said he would 'absolutely' be better for race relations than Obama. Why? I get candidates going after each other - but Obama isn't a candidate and it looks petty. Whatever, tho. If he feels it's going to be a successful strategy more power to him.

[Art_from_Ark]

57. If Obama had been better with race relations,

would they be such a hot button topic now?

[mobyz]

77. Not this again..

Yes, let's blame Obama for the racism that's permeating our current society. Or better yet, why don't we blame Obama for slavery as well.

[Drunken Irishman]

81. LOL that's like suggesting Kennedy-LBJ were worse at race relations than Nixon...

...because race relations were much more a hot button issue in the 60s than the 70s. What a funny comment.

[Old Codger]

20. Bernies and a lot of others

Criticism was well earned.....

[Justice]

24. I posted in GD about Sanders attacking Obama and it was immediately locked as being about the

primaries. I didn't think it was just about the primaries - I thought it was a larger discussion. Was quite shocked it was shut down.

[bettyellen]

12. the "birthday cake" ones are so good! Easter is a round the corner!

was that silly enough for you?
:smile:

[YCHDT]

18. I noticed that, I think it's because Bernie if a poetry honest guy and its hard to hear anything

[LexVegas]

19. Its all starting to come out now. nt

[Justice]

23. Its really ugly because when you make that point, Sanders' supporters turn on Obama

[Liberal_Stalwart71]

32. Yep!

[SoLeftIAmRight]

25. You sound like Drunken Irishman

I am very proud that I bitch about many decisions of every politician out there.

So far...

[JTFrog]

73. Rude. n/t

[Ed Suspicious]

26. Are you kidding? Do you know how many times I've come to the defense of Obama and, in particular,

the ACA? Countless times.

[jillan]

27. Bernie supporters - do not take the bait. They spent the entire day trying to get us to

question John Lewis and now they want us to do the same to our President.

Please do not feed them.

[Drunken Irishman]

37. This whole place has spent all day questioning John Lewis.

The same people who have spent the last eight years attacking Obama, calling him some nasty, divisive names - without a hint of irony because, gosh, Bernie Sanders is beyond reproach - the same people who tried convincing us over that same time that Obama wasn't.

Again. Not good optics.

[jillan]

40. "Obama is a Christian AS FAR AS I KNOW" "C'mon not long ago he would have been carrying our bags"

You mean comments like that coming from the Clintons attacking Obama?

No of course not. If the Clintons criticize or belittle the President, no problem.

[Drunken Irishman]

44. I raked Clinton over the coals for 'em when they were made.

I did not support Clinton. I had a lot of anger toward Clinton because of that hostile campaign. But come at me with something more recent. Hillary hasn't actively attacked Obama since the primaries ended. Eight years ago.

But as we're reminded tonight, Bernie will 'absolutely' be better on race relations than Obama.

Okay.

[Vattel]

28. There is a difference between lies and honest criticism.

[Drunken Irishman]

38. I agree.

What Bernie has said, at times, does border on lying about President Obama - or like how he never claimed to say Democrats should primary him. Glad you noticed that too!

[Liberal_Stalwart71]

31. As usual, the voice of reason.

[Blue_In_AK]

48. What?

[frylock]

54. None shall be critical of Obama.

[Beacool]

56. To be expected.

GDP has become Bernie Underground. Let it roll off you. This place is nuts.

[merrily]

62. Depends on the type of criticism. Some things are fair game in a political campaign.

Some things are never fair game, like race and religion. Hillary and/or her campaign have done both.

Pandering is kind of sucky, too, but I guess most politicians do that.

[mobyz]

78. Sanders is jealous of President Obama

Sanders is critical of Obama because he's jealous of Obama. You can pretty much tell because of the way he can't seem to stop trying to compare himself or his campaign to Obama. Someone needs to remind him that he's not running against Obama. He and his supporters can't seem to stop comparing his campaign to the one Obama ran in 2008. He even co-opted Obama message of "Change You Can Believe In" in 2012 to his own slogan of "Future You Can Believe In". It's okay though. Obama is one of a kind. Everybody wants to pretend that they can replicate what he did in 2008. Even the incompetent clowns in the Republican party like Rubio and Cruz wants to be Obama for their party.

[The Polack MSgt]

85. Well, I was told

That never allowing criticism is worship.

I was told that by a Senator Sanders supporter while discussing the topic addressed in this thread actually.

BTW, here are the jury results for this OP:

On Thu Feb 11, 2016, 10:03 PM an alert was sent on the following post:

Sanders is critical of Obama and not a peep. Someone critical of Sanders, though?
http://www.democraticunderground.com/12511205315

REASON FOR ALERT

This post is disruptive, hurtful, rude, insensitive, over-the-top, or otherwise inappropriate.

ALERTER'S COMMENTS

This is total meta. It has nothing to do with issues, but just attacks other DUers. Pointless and juvenile.

You served on a randomly-selected Jury of DU members which reviewed this post. The review was completed at Thu Feb 11, 2016, 10:13 PM, and the Jury voted 1-6 to LEAVE IT.

Juror #1 voted to LEAVE IT ALONE
Explanation: No explanation given
Juror #2 voted to LEAVE IT ALONE
Explanation: No. This is why GD-P exists.
Juror #3 voted to LEAVE IT ALONE
Explanation: No explanation given
Juror #4 voted to HIDE IT
Explanation: No explanation given
Juror #5 voted to LEAVE IT ALONE
Explanation: Sanders supporter here, voting to let it stand. I disagree with the post, but you know, the whole fracking point of a *discussion* site is for us to to *discuss* those disagreements. It's an off-the-mark, overly simplistic post (what isn't, around here, anymore?) but just rebut it in the thread...
Juror #6 voted to LEAVE IT ALONE
Explanation: No explanation given
Juror #7 voted to LEAVE IT ALONE
Explanation: No explanation given

[krawhitham]

89. Hey remember when Bernie call Obama's policies a failure and stupid

Oh wait that was Hillary, my bad

In 2015 Hillary called Obama's Foreign Policy 'a Failure' http://goo.gl/WDp516

In 2014 Hillary slams Obama for ‘stupid’ foreign policies http://goo.gl/BPYPje