I support giving free tuition for our smartest and most motivated kids who dream of being a doctor

[hill2016]

or lawyer or engineer or scientist or mathematician. A dream that requires hard work and sacrifice.

I do not support giving free tuition to students who flunk high school or stoners who want to spend eight years in college studying poetry or medieval history (either no motivation or no aptitude).

In between these extremes I would support a mix of scholarships, financial aid and grants.

[ForgoTheConsequence]

1. "stoners" "poetry"

Do you cut up footballs that land in your yard?

[Downwinder]

67. There went Jack Kerouac under the bus.

Probably Poe also along with Hemingway, Fitzgerald and others.

[earthshine]

2. How about free undergraduate college for all who meet basic requirements ...

like graduating HS?

For all advanced degrees, they should earn stipends.

Free community or state run college could be limited to something like the first 120 or 150 credit hours.

Part of the systemic problem is the allocation of financial aid and grants.

[Truprogressive85]

3. elitism just oozes from your fingers as you type huh

now its you want give free tuition " highs school flunkies" or stoners

Sounding like a republican when they talk about immigration and how we should keep the "brightest" immigrants and to hell with the rest of them

[Art_from_Ark]

45. +1

[beam me up scottie]

51. Yes and we all know how racially biased the testing system is.

So the "smartest and most motivated" wouldn't be very diverse.

How Republican sounding indeed.

[CBGLuthier]

4. Flunk High School? I quit when I was 16. Got my GED when I was 18

am I worthy enough?

Oh, I also got an associates in electronics by the time I was 18 and then a bachelors in computer science after that. We paid for it all but it was fucking affordable in the 70s and 80s.

None off these jobs were exactly what I dreamed about but that's another story. I find your attitude almost as offensive as your candidate.

[cali]

8. It's incredibly offensive.

[virtualobserver]

53. it is.....sounds like someone who would want to cancel all funding for the arts.

not a good sales pitch for Hillary.

[daleanime]

40. +1

[TubbersUK]

5. Sincere question

Don't US public universities have entrance requirements ?

[dana_b]

10. universities, yes

and state colleges. However to get into community colleges only requires a person to be 18 y.o. with their G.E.D. or high school dipoma or to have permission from their high school.

[TubbersUK]

15. Thanks :)

[wavesofeuphoria]

69. Some CCs allow 16 yo who are homeschooling as well .. No permissions needed.

[JackInGreen]

6. So glad to see teachers and social workers

And community support services off your list, we know where your priorities are.

[Ghost Dog]

41. One wonders whether 'Environmental Scientist"

would qualify...

After all, a lot of study of history is involved.

[GummyBearz]

76. Who believes in environmental science?

[cali]

7. What do you know of the Annales School of Social History?

Let me tell you the story of one Medieval Historian.

His name was Marc Bloch. He was a French Jew. A renowned historian. A resistance fighter. He was tortured and murdered by the Nazis.

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Marc_Bloch

“But history is neither watchmaking nor cabinet construction. It is an endeavor toward better understanding.”
― Marc Bloch

Fuck the anti-intellectual scorn that belittles such disciplines as history and the arts. Philistines are deplorable. You, by the way, aren't fit to judge the value of a person.

As you set out for Ithaka
Hope the voyage is a long one,
full of adventure, full of discovery.
Laistrygonians and Cyclops,
angry Poseidon—don’t be afraid of them:
you’ll never find things like that on your way
as long as you keep your thoughts raised high,
as long as a rare excitement
stirs your spirit and your body.
Laistrygonians and Cyclops,
wild Poseidon—you won’t encounter them
unless you bring them along inside your soul,
unless your soul sets them up in front of you.

[Matariki]

9. +1000

[cali]

12. Thank you. The Historian's Craft by Bloch is a wonderful book

for anyone interested in history and historiography- how history becomes.... history. Strange Defeat is about the fall of France.

[dana_b]

11. thank you for stating it well and with an amazing example

of why other areas apart from science and math are so important.

edit - I decided to state my view to OP - cordially.

[cali]

14. As cordial as I could be, which wasn't very. The op appalled me

the way few things could. It's so blandly frightening in its hostility to the intellect and the arts.

And thank you.

[TubbersUK]

28. + 1

[QC]

60. It's one of a long series of appalling OPs.

I don't know if we're seeing performance art here or delusion, but either way the show has gone on long enough.

[beam me up scottie]

49. Bravo, cali! Much better than the op deserves.

[cali]

59. Come to think of it.....

My dad was an anthropologist who became an inventor and a very successful business man, manufacturing computer peripherals.

And thanks

[Downwinder]

68. Some of Perot's programmers were musicians.

[dana_b]

13. "A dream that requires hard work and sacrifice"

so you don't think literature, history, art, nursing, film, physical education and sports, business, social sciences, political sciences or so many, many other fields require hard work and sacrifice??

I worked three part time jobs while putting myself through college and then nursing school. I can tell you well about both hard work and sacrifice!

[cali]

16. You are a perfect representation of a Hillary supporter.

That is not a compliment.

[Fumesucker]

19. Actually I kind of wonder if it is a compliment

I'm always a bit skeptical of things that are too good to be true.

[delrem]

32. Not too good to be true.

Free or heavily subsidized community colleges are a damn good way for a dropout to get back on track after taking a bad turn and dropping out of high school. That happens easily when a person is young - and not just because the person is somehow "bad". It happened to me, albeit in Canada, and I went on to get my degree. Not as a superhero, just someone with a BA who otherwise wouldn't even have high school.

And y'know, relatively speaking it costs the community very little to support their people, and the returns are very real even though they're unquantifiable. People say it doesn't help, "it won't end racism", "it won't end poverty", but I think they're narrow minded and demanding too much, and not even being consistent in their demands.

[Fumesucker]

33. No, you misunderstand me... Not always difficult I admit.

An opponent who is too good to be true, too perfect a foil.

[delrem]

37. OK. It took me awhile. Sometimes I hate having to think. n/t

[Lordquinton]

75. The results aren't easily quantifiable

but you can start listing the returns, although people will start tuning out pretty quick.

And no, it won't end racism, but nothing will end racism. To accomplish that will take a long time, and lots of smaller steps to reach that goal, like fixing the education system. On the other hand keeping education accessible to only those who have a lot to sacrifice only works to continue it.

[Cheese Sandwich]

17. You don't understand how important medieval history is.

[cali]

18. I doubt the op understands anything about history and historiography

[TheFarS1de]

21. Those who ignore history are doomed to repeat it

A basic premise but it is the foundation of progress .

[white_wolf]

23. Well you see that's because...

if we keep listening to people like the OP we'll get to experience our own dark ages. Why study history when you can live it? P.S.: I'm well aware that historians consider the term "dark ages" to be a misnomer, but it fits the OP's worldview.

[cali]

27. .......

Perfect

[Ghost Dog]

44. Objection sustained. Dark Christian Europe.

The culture of medieval European Al Ándaluz was for quite some time illustrious.

[white_wolf]

20. Me Hill2016! Me think History bad!

Seriously, what the hell is wrong with you? Is it just medieval history you think is useless or all history? I'm well aware this will likely get me alerted on, but, considering the low quality of your posts, I don't give a damn.

[Ichingcarpenter]

22. This is how it works in Denmark

1. You take a govt.interest free loan to pay for tuition for that year, You make no payments on it

2. You have a number of days you can be absent from class. Above that number, you are on a restriction and may not pass the class. The tuition has to be paid back.

3. You fail the class ... you have one more chance to pass the class, you don't pass you pay back the tuition.

4. You have a personal crisis and can't attend school.
You may apply for a wavier.

5. The system is set up so you can't game it.

6. This includes all schools

7. Above all of this you are given around $900 a month to live on that you don't pay back and can apply for student apartments that are highly subsided and include normal apartments and student apartments .

[slipslidingaway]

24. Children are not created equally, even with the same parents and upbringing ...

but they all have something to give, whether that be a gift to society or just a gift to family and friends.

I have never commented to one of your posts, may this be the last.

[Cobalt Violet]

25. Got a problem with my degree in painting?

What makes you think a fucking lawyer or engineer is much more worthy of support? You think being an artist doesn't take hard work? It damn sure takes as much if not more than any of those occupations you mentioned. Sacrifice is something you have no clue about if you aren't an artist in this artless society.

[white_wolf]

26. Yeah, the OP really bothered me.

"Artless society" is an apt and depressing description of our country. Anyone who thinks being an artist is "easy" should try it themselves. I didn't get a degree in English Lit or Creative Writing, but I'm trying to make it as author and writing is one of the hardest things I've ever done. I don't know if I'll ever get to where I can make a living at it, but that's my dream. In the meantime, I'll he working crappy jobs to pay the bills. I hope your painting career is going better than my writing one. Best wishes!

[Cobalt Violet]

30. The internet has made it easier for me to sell art.

But it's still a struggle and I do have to work crappy jobs too but little less then before. Just keep going. Keep writing. It's really not about the market or what sells. But I know, making a living would be nice.

[PyaarRevolution]

42. Because those people make comparative beaucoup money...

and that's all that matters to the OP sadly.

Never mind it's the Arts that may inspire Scientists. It's the Scientists who are both Scientists and Artists who move both fields forward substantially, case in point Leonardo Da Vinci. Sadly, those people are in short supply but that doesn't mean some scientists may not be terrifically moved by a play and invent something very beautiful AND practical.

[gollygee]

63. This is one of my least favorite DU posts ever

What a stupid thing to say. Only doctors and engineers are valuable. Our world would be lovely if we only had them.

[quantumjunkie]

29. Disappointing -- Hillary Supporters are sounding more and more like Republicans.

Not to be mean but this post makes it clear that a sizeable amount of Hillary fans (not all) are center-right (blue dogs). And Bernie supporters are most definitely to the left. It's posts like these that will make it hard to find common ground for a GE and improve the enthusiasm gap. Very sad.

To me, the real danger isn't if Bernie becomes the nominee because he has a very high engagement (and excitement) with democratic supporters. It's if Hillary wins the nomination. She might have a problem motivating Bernie supporters which include an overwhelming majority of independents, deciding if its worth coming out and waiting in line to vote for someone that doesn't share their values. One of those values of which include: not having a speed dial to Wall Street.

[Fumesucker]

39. Bingo...

It's posts like these that will make it hard to find common ground for a GE and improve the enthusiasm gap.

You have put your virtual finger on the crux of the biscuit, grasshopper.

Very good.

[DonCoquixote]

31. I would sincerely love to think

that whoever wrote this is doing it as a joke.

But then again, Hillary loves people who work in the financial sector.

In all seriousness, your doctors are not worth much without nurses or teachers, especially as the teachers train the mathematicians, doctors, engineers and scientists. Then again the Europeans and Asian countries that DO give tuition seem to be cranking out more of those then we do, and they tend to end up coming here on h1b-visas for the benefit of the finance majors that truly are not the sharpest tools in the shed.

[Fumesucker]

34. Bless your heart

And I'm really not sure which way I mean that but I do mean it.

[Mike__M]

36. Woo hoo! We're getting some fun posts tonight

That last Republican debate must have knocked some stars out of alignment or something.

Here's one for the no-we-canters to consider: how about motivation, aptitude and prosody tests at the voting booth? No need to enfranchise dropouts, stoners and poets, enit?

[bowens43]

38. how very gracious of you. You hill supporters crack me up.

[Warren DeMontague]

43. Yeah, scientists and mathematicians never get stoned, either.

[nc4bo]

47. And the builders, bricklayers, electricians, roofers, solar panel installers, farmers, phlebotomists

And teachers, plumbers, welders, auto repair techs, social workers, doolas, etc.

[JonathanRackham]

48. The free college concept is a slap to the blue collar unions

and skilled trades people.

[ForgoTheConsequence]

70. Not really.

Colleges pair with trade unions all the time.

[HDSam]

84. They sure do

Our local CC has 18 skilled trade apprenticeship programs and partners with the Northern Nevada Building and Construction Trades Council which is affiliated with 17 trade unions.

[Krytan11c]

82. Not at all

More and more those career paths are requiring a degree. Setting up the young generation for success in multiple career field, without the burden of large student loans is the moral thing to do.
It helps build a strong middle class and tax base as well.

[hobbit709]

50. All the stoners I know with degrees

Have degrees in things like Law, Medicine, Engineering, Physics, Biology, etc.
Does the name Carl Sagan ring a bell?

[stone space]

52. Would this include pacifist mathematicians? We don't qualify for educational grants and loans.

(There's a reason why I still don't have an undergraduate degree to this day.)

We even have a presidential candidate now who openly says that he used to be a pacifist.

Perhaps it's time to end the pacifist purges of higher education?

Pacifist mathematicians are pretty much in the same boat as pacifist historians, it seems to me.

[restorefreedom]

54. wow. that is all. nt

[PonyUp]

55. You are definitely a credit to Hillary's campaign. Funny I don't see others agreeing with you. nt

[Ichingcarpenter]

57. We have to do better with our sleeper agents

They are on to us. I will notify Boris or Natasha.
that Operation Mockingbird might not be working as well as we thought

[PonyUp]

58. The chair is against the wall. John has a long moustache. That is all.

[Odin2005]

56. Oh No, STONERS!!!

Note to Hillary supporters, it is 2016, not 1996.

And Medieval history is awesome.

[gollygee]

61. What's wrong with studying poetry and history?

So only if they want to study the stuff you think is important?

[virtualobserver]

65. you can see why a Hillary supporter would not like history....

rewriting and spinning Hillary's history is full time job.

[gollygee]

66. See my post immediately following this one

A comic I thought was relevant.

[gollygee]

62. And another thing . . .

[m-lekktor]

64. I notice people with a "personality" such as yours seem to gravitate towards Hillary Clinton. nt

[UglyGreed]

71. Whatever

http://listverse.com/2014/01/06/10-exemplary-tales-of-ex-convicts-who-turned-their-lives-around/

[UglyGreed]

72. So called stoners....

http://matadornetwork.com/nights/41-successful-stoners-time/

[cyberswede]

73. This post is offensive and utterly RW.

Congratulations.

[libtodeath]

74. So a child in a poor community just gets to lose out?

[arlington.mass]

77. Lawyers - YES! Critical thinkers and teachers - HELL NO!

[KeepItReal]

78. Yeah, because what society needs poets and historians??

My brother studied literature in college, wrote poetry and is now a high school teacher. My dad taught history and Civics.

Your post does your candidate no service.

[HassleCat]

79. How the euro trash do it.

The flunkers, stoners, layabouts, etc. go to trade school and become carpenters, painters, bus drivers, etc. They do pay for people to study poetry, medieval history, and, of course, the famous underwater basket weaving. But they only allow a certain number of people to major in those things, or anything at all.

[Kip Humphrey]

80. now I know you.

[whatchamacallit]

81. Are you sure you're in the correct forum/party

You do nothing but spew attitudes and talking points from the right.

[bunnies]

83. At least there are only two others willing to admit how far to the right they are.

Its amazing what passes for a Democratic viewpoint these days. Maybe the OP was drunk?

[MuseRider]

85. Really?

Man oh man. Low bar or short sighted. Not sure, maybe both.

Condemned to a life of poverty because in High School you did not meet the standards. How many people do you know who grew up a little later than that?

Either that or condemned to a life with only the numbers and statistics in your preferred field. We all know that all work and no play make you a very well grounded person. My god what a boring ass world you would like to create.

[AOR]

86. Your posts are a most excellent asset to the Sanders campaign...

the arrogance, the elitism, the upper class gentrified attitude... all the traits that will steer more struggling people to Sanders.

Please do continue on with these posts hill2016. With any luck some people are snapping em up and posting them all over the net as representative of what Hillary Clinton and her campaign stand for.