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TubbersUK

(1,517 posts)
Mon Feb 15, 2016, 06:53 AM Feb 2016

Hillary Clinton isn’t a feminist; she is just politically ambitious

As the presidential election campaign in the United States heats up, the question of whether America is ready for a female president has arisen, given that Hillary Clinton is a serious contender in the race.

This question has become even more pertinent as one of the front-runners in the Republican Party is the misogynistic, racist, xenophobic and narcissistic Donald Trump, who has turned his campaign into a C-grade reality TV show, complete with swear words and derogatory names for women.

Surprisingly, Hillary Clinton’s candidacy has divided, rather than united, women. Younger women, it appears, prefer the other Democratic Party candidate, the left-leaning, anti-war Bernie Sanders, whose popularity seems to be rising.

Older feminists who are in Hillary’s age-group, such as the iconic Gloria Steinem, are supporting her simply because she is a woman, as they believe it is time that the world’s only superpower had a woman at the helm.


However, many younger women have refused to buy this argument, not because they do not believe in gender equality, but because they are not convinced that having a “token” woman in the White House is enough to bring about a significant change in the current world order.





http://www.nation.co.ke/oped/Opinion/Hillary-Clinton-is-not-a-feminist/-/440808/3076780/-/4hmus5z/-/index.html
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Hillary Clinton isn’t a feminist; she is just politically ambitious (Original Post) TubbersUK Feb 2016 OP
Her record of working for womens issues is well established... this is more noise. Soon there uponit7771 Feb 2016 #1
What exactly has she done for women? She couldn't even pay them equal on her own senate staff. RiverLover Feb 2016 #7
That's....very surprising. daleanime Feb 2016 #8
I'm shocked! InAbLuEsTaTe Feb 2016 #13
How many times does this need to be debunked? seaglass Feb 2016 #16
Eleventy billion times, because this is how propaganda is spread. JTFrog Feb 2016 #36
Ha! What a load of bs. RiverLover Feb 2016 #41
Sure, base your conclusion on selective data put together by rw-ers rather than all the data. seaglass Feb 2016 #47
Why propagate nonsense that has been debunked? Beacool Feb 2016 #58
Yes 20 years of opposing the rights of gay and trans women to marry or make a family. Bluenorthwest Feb 2016 #14
Integrity and Merryland Feb 2016 #26
Hillary's record of supporting wars and legislation that harmed women is well known. magical thyme Feb 2016 #18
thanks for this toon. sums up alot! nt floppyboo Feb 2016 #24
What about gay women? TTUBatfan2008 Feb 2016 #46
She evolved, like Obama, on this issue... I don't mind someone changing for the better... uponit7771 Feb 2016 #48
He is not focused on one or two issues... TTUBatfan2008 Feb 2016 #49
Exactly, what sort of feminist supporters corrupt male Cuomo over ethical female Teachout? jfern Feb 2016 #2
That's it in a nutshell - and I am one of those "older feminists". djean111 Feb 2016 #3
Warren would make a much better 1st woman President. Dustlawyer Feb 2016 #23
I'm an older feminist too Merryland Feb 2016 #29
She's losing more and more women in all age groups. HooptieWagon Feb 2016 #56
yes amborin Feb 2016 #65
Hillary will say or do just about anything to gain power. hobbit709 Feb 2016 #4
"I'm sorry we Bernie fans don't accept the reason you women are voting for Hillary so you better upaloopa Feb 2016 #5
You know, I really do envy your ability..... daleanime Feb 2016 #9
There's a special place in hell for progressives who don't support authentic progressives (Bernie) and reject phony progressives (Hillary). InAbLuEsTaTe Feb 2016 #15
And that hell would be Merryland Feb 2016 #30
hahahaha! good one! InAbLuEsTaTe Feb 2016 #44
I said it elsewhere... Helen Borg Feb 2016 #6
The other thing about too many old-style feminists sarge43 Feb 2016 #10
And everything you just wrote is a hoary myth I've been hearing for 30 years and more. CBHagman Feb 2016 #60
Yeah, that makes that Ms article saying we service women sarge43 Feb 2016 #61
When Ms. Magazine covers U.S. service women... CBHagman Feb 2016 #66
Yep. Patriarchy in a Pantsuit. wavesofeuphoria Feb 2016 #38
Bell Hooks completely destroys Sheryl Sandberg's "Lean In" TheBlackAdder Feb 2016 #45
Agree! More feminists need to read that! wavesofeuphoria Feb 2016 #59
That's a right wing view of feminism Nonhlanhla Feb 2016 #40
I'm an "older" feminist. chervilant Feb 2016 #11
I am a 58 yo woman, & I can't comprehend anyone supporting Clinton either. peacebird Feb 2016 #51
Haven't we already fallen for one wolf in sheep's clothing? DeGreg Feb 2016 #12
Oh, come on. She's obviously both. gollygee Feb 2016 #17
I'd rec you on this alone if I could. Amimnoch Feb 2016 #20
But she's a feminist. AlbertCat Feb 2016 #33
She has been a strong voice in support of women's reproductive choices gollygee Feb 2016 #34
Because the two are mutually exclusive traits? Amimnoch Feb 2016 #19
FFS Hillary Clinton is clearly a feminist Recursion Feb 2016 #21
Put this Bernie supporter firmly in the camp that Hillary is a feminist Arazi Feb 2016 #22
You don't know Hillary at all DownriverDem Feb 2016 #25
OK. Besides talking a good story, exactly what tangible, concrete actions sarge43 Feb 2016 #62
A candidate for president is ambitious! Color me shocked! Skinner Feb 2016 #27
A true leader is one who listens first, then forms a coalition for a real cause-We not Me. DhhD Feb 2016 #32
When has Hillary Clinton lifted a finger to get a $12 minimum wage started in New York? DhhD Feb 2016 #28
BernBots Cryptoad Feb 2016 #31
A complex thought like not being buddies with Wall St. for instance? hobbit709 Feb 2016 #35
Sanders has worked for decades on minimum wage as a living wage. DhhD Feb 2016 #37
Advocating for Civil Rights? Advocating for equal rights? Advocating for Veterans? d_legendary1 Feb 2016 #39
Thanks,,, Cryptoad Feb 2016 #55
She is an old style politician. oldandhappy Feb 2016 #42
Not familiar w/this author or source, but I don't think anyone can say HRC isn't a feminist. cyberswede Feb 2016 #43
She is both. Everyone running for office is "ambitious" for fucks sake. bettyellen Feb 2016 #50
In a sense, her ambition enacts feminism 6chars Feb 2016 #52
I am kind of amazed by that. I have heard a lot of people parrot the "dishonesty" and "can't listen bettyellen Feb 2016 #53
I guess there are a couple of ways to define feminist lumberjack_jeff Feb 2016 #54
Absolute and utter rubbish!!!! Beacool Feb 2016 #57
"Young women who had never had to struggle for equality" lumberjack_jeff Feb 2016 #64
New GOP troll meme: Hillary is not a feminist applegrove Feb 2016 #63
She's a feminist, but she's more Betty Friedan than bell hooks. DemocraticWing Feb 2016 #67

uponit7771

(93,505 posts)
1. Her record of working for womens issues is well established... this is more noise. Soon there
Mon Feb 15, 2016, 06:56 AM
Feb 2016

... will be an article claiming Hillary doesn't have good enough shoes to be a woman or something.

Just noise

 

JTFrog

(14,274 posts)
36. Eleventy billion times, because this is how propaganda is spread.
Mon Feb 15, 2016, 10:23 AM
Feb 2016

Repeat it enough times.... claim that we all need to listen to right wing sources, like Priebus. Yep, if The Republican National Committee chairman says it's true... well by golly you better believe a bunch of Bernie supporters are going to post it as fact.

Just sayin.... I mean this just happened here in this thread. I'm not making shit up.





RiverLover

(7,830 posts)
41. Ha! What a load of bs.
Mon Feb 15, 2016, 10:58 AM
Feb 2016

All that shows is that the Hill camp knows how to move figures around to try to cover up the inequity in pay.

Beacool

(30,509 posts)
58. Why propagate nonsense that has been debunked?
Mon Feb 15, 2016, 03:24 PM
Feb 2016

DU is like being on a RW site. 24/7 attacks on the Clintons, even when they are unfounded lies.

 

Bluenorthwest

(45,319 posts)
14. Yes 20 years of opposing the rights of gay and trans women to marry or make a family.
Mon Feb 15, 2016, 08:59 AM
Feb 2016

Well established as working on issues for some women, the Godly, the wealthy, the straight and the cis.

 

magical thyme

(14,881 posts)
18. Hillary's record of supporting wars and legislation that harmed women is well known.
Mon Feb 15, 2016, 09:04 AM
Feb 2016

Ask the women of Honduras, Iraq, Libya and Syria how Hillary's regime change is working for them. Ask the 3-strikes widows, who's kids are forced to raise themselves, how welfare reform is working for them. Ask the mothers and sisters of the "gangs of super-predators" how Hillary is helping them.

Besides, her claim to have put a million cracks in the glass ceiling rings false, when in fact she largely rode her husband's political career to this point.

uponit7771

(93,505 posts)
48. She evolved, like Obama, on this issue... I don't mind someone changing for the better...
Mon Feb 15, 2016, 01:00 PM
Feb 2016

... I do mind a mindset too focused on one or two issues

TTUBatfan2008

(3,623 posts)
49. He is not focused on one or two issues...
Mon Feb 15, 2016, 01:03 PM
Feb 2016

Unreal that you actually believe that. He just recognizes that NONE of what he wants to do will get done until we remove the big corporate money from our political system.

 

djean111

(14,255 posts)
3. That's it in a nutshell - and I am one of those "older feminists".
Mon Feb 15, 2016, 07:09 AM
Feb 2016

The goal was not to elect a woman just because she is a woman, it was to have woman receive an equal chance, based on records and deeds.

I don't like Hillary's record and deeds and words and BFFs; I do like Liz Warren for the job. Simple as that, and it is, IMO, very sexist to expect that I would vote for such an important role based on gender, as if that was more important than anything else, or as if that was the only difference between Hillary and Bernie. That is saying I would support more war, fracking, the TPP, cluster bombs, increased H-1B visas, crippling student debt, private prisons, and the governance of Wall Street, if only the candidate who stands for those things was a man. Nope. That is, really, more magical thinking than anything Bernie has said.

Dustlawyer

(10,538 posts)
23. Warren would make a much better 1st woman President.
Mon Feb 15, 2016, 09:13 AM
Feb 2016

It's kind of like Jackie Robinson, he was the right 1st AA in baseball. It's tough being the 1st, they set the example. Hillary would not be a good example of what women could do in the White House. She represents the old, corrupt system at a time when the people have had enough of TPTB running things through bought off politicians. Warren on the other hand fits much better into the new mold of populist politicians!

Merryland

(1,134 posts)
29. I'm an older feminist too
Mon Feb 15, 2016, 09:56 AM
Feb 2016

and I agree totally, with everything you wrote. The implication that older Democratic women support her more than younger women do may be a myth.

hobbit709

(41,694 posts)
4. Hillary will say or do just about anything to gain power.
Mon Feb 15, 2016, 07:10 AM
Feb 2016

THAT is my objection to her.

There have to be at least 25 million women in this country that would get my vote before I'd vote for her.

InAbLuEsTaTe

(25,516 posts)
15. There's a special place in hell for progressives who don't support authentic progressives (Bernie) and reject phony progressives (Hillary).
Mon Feb 15, 2016, 08:59 AM
Feb 2016

Bernie & Elizabeth 2016!!!

Helen Borg

(3,963 posts)
6. I said it elsewhere...
Mon Feb 15, 2016, 07:57 AM
Feb 2016

Hillary Clinton is an old-style feminist who would love to be in a mirror world where women have the power men have now. Period. It would not be a better world for everybody, just a flipped world. True feminism has to do with equality, not domination of one group over another.

sarge43

(29,173 posts)
10. The other thing about too many old-style feminists
Mon Feb 15, 2016, 08:18 AM
Feb 2016

They focused on the concerns of white middle class women, working class and minority women not that much.

A true feminist is a humanist first.

CBHagman

(17,457 posts)
60. And everything you just wrote is a hoary myth I've been hearing for 30 years and more.
Mon Feb 15, 2016, 03:29 PM
Feb 2016

I suspect many people don't really know what you term "old-style feminists" were actually doing from the second half of the 20th century on, and it troubles me that in an age when we have the equivalent of multiple research libraries at our fingertips people simply repeat the same things I heard when I was stuck in the dusty stacks with the reference works.

Mid-20th century American feminism, known as the second wave, came about in part because women active in the civil rights and antiwar movements encountered such virulent sexism from their supposed allies.

From the beginning the feminist publication Ms. (still with us more than four decades later) dealt with the issues of domestic violence, welfare, the demands on working mothers -- hardly areas known to one demographic but not another.

Gloria Steinem, currently vilified, often with ageist slurs, for that single sentence in her recent interview with Bill Maher, was writing about female genital mutilation, hardly a white suburban issue, back in the 1970s, when Maher was a freshly minted college graduate. It was more than a little stomach-turning to watch him try to mansplain to her about global issues.

The mission of feminists still isn't done, the obstacles are formidable, but it's simply historically inaccurate to depict the people who've done the work for 10, 20, 30, 40, 50, 60 years as somehow having let the human race down.

Oh, and the terms humanist and feminist have been keeping company for decades too. Gloria Steinem actually has a funny/sad anecdote about that in one of her essays published in the collection Outrageous Acts and Everyday Rebellions.


sarge43

(29,173 posts)
61. Yeah, that makes that Ms article saying we service women
Mon Feb 15, 2016, 03:42 PM
Feb 2016

were "sleeping with the enemy" so supportive of women. We were just trashy sluts "following the boys" when we should have gone after a law degree. The more things change ...

No I don't have the article anymore and no I'm not making it up. It's the reason I dropped my NOW membership and my subscription.

Silly sensitive me, but I don't like condescension or derision then or now.

CBHagman

(17,457 posts)
66. When Ms. Magazine covers U.S. service women...
Sun Feb 21, 2016, 01:31 PM
Feb 2016

...I never see anything to suggest that they pursued military service for questionable reasons, or that they deserve anything less than honorable treatment, or that they're not brave, innovative, strong.

[url]http://www.msmagazine.com/june03/kennedy.asp[/url]

[url]http://www.msmagazine.com/news/uswirestory.asp?id=9042[/url]

[url]http://msmagazine.com/blog/2012/06/04/the-women-and-people-of-color-who-invented-the-internet/[/url]

wavesofeuphoria

(525 posts)
38. Yep. Patriarchy in a Pantsuit.
Mon Feb 15, 2016, 10:44 AM
Feb 2016

Corporate, lean-in feminism is "we can do what men do" not "we can do what we want"

No intersectionality involved. Oh, they celebrate WOC who are like them (well paid, successful), but the rest, not so much.

Feminism has evolved greatly ... corporate feminism keeps real change from happening because they are propped up by the patriarchy, status quo, rigged system.

chervilant

(8,267 posts)
11. I'm an "older" feminist.
Mon Feb 15, 2016, 08:21 AM
Feb 2016

I turned 60 on January 6. I support Bernie 100%, and cannot even begin to understand why anyone supports Clinton, with her frequent blunders and her heavy baggage. (I know it's de rigueur to call Steinem "iconic," but she really stepped in it--both with her statement about young women "following the boys," and with her insincere apology after the fact.)

peacebird

(14,195 posts)
51. I am a 58 yo woman, & I can't comprehend anyone supporting Clinton either.
Mon Feb 15, 2016, 02:22 PM
Feb 2016

She supports outsourcing & more H1B visas.

She supports continued use of clusterbombs, which disproportionately harm children who mistake unexploded bomblets for toys.

She didn't lead on GLBT rights, she waited til the majority of Americans were in support before she 'evolved'

She lacks good judgement (Kissinger as a mentor? Iraq War Resolution?)

She lacks common sense (lying about sniper fire at airport when she knew the reception was filmed?)

 

DeGreg

(72 posts)
12. Haven't we already fallen for one wolf in sheep's clothing?
Mon Feb 15, 2016, 08:45 AM
Feb 2016

I want a WOMAN PRESIDENT
too, but not a woman
president who thinks
exactly like the men

who got us into this
MESS.

gollygee

(22,336 posts)
17. Oh, come on. She's obviously both.
Mon Feb 15, 2016, 09:03 AM
Feb 2016

There does seem to be a divide between older feminists and younger ones, but she's definitely a feminist.

I just read a few posts from Hillary supporters saying silly stuff about Bernie, and now a post from a Bernie supporter saying something silly about Hillary. There's plenty to not like about Hillary. But she's a feminist.

 

Amimnoch

(4,558 posts)
20. I'd rec you on this alone if I could.
Mon Feb 15, 2016, 09:06 AM
Feb 2016

People seem to have taken leave of their common sense on this primary cycle.

I don't apply that statement to just the Sanders side.

 

AlbertCat

(17,505 posts)
33. But she's a feminist.
Mon Feb 15, 2016, 10:12 AM
Feb 2016

Obviously, the word "feminist" has a complicated and layered definition.

But generally, I don't see Hillary as a "feminist". She rides on Bill's coattails a lot. She's "for" women, but really, who with a brain isn't? She may be a person with a strong personality who likes to have things done her way and makes that happen, but, y'know, so was Leona Helmsley. Just because she's operating in an area that is heavily "a man's world" doesn't necessarily make her a great feminist.

gollygee

(22,336 posts)
34. She has been a strong voice in support of women's reproductive choices
Mon Feb 15, 2016, 10:14 AM
Feb 2016

Even at times where I have braced myself because I thought she wouldn't answer the question how I wanted her to.

This is an issue where the two candidates are the same. They are both very strong on women's issues. There are issues were Bernie is a stronger candidate IMO, but this is ridiculous.

 

Amimnoch

(4,558 posts)
19. Because the two are mutually exclusive traits?
Mon Feb 15, 2016, 09:04 AM
Feb 2016

How dare a woman be politically ambitious!!


On the flip side, you didn't even use the best part of the article that at least makes the argument:

Hillary’s dismissal of the Lewinsky affair as a “vast right-wing conspiracy” basically reduced Lewinsky to a pawn in a political game, and severely damaged her reputation.

Yet Hillary, who is now claiming to be a feminist, did not stand in sisterhood with her then because only by standing by her man could she achieve her political ambitions.

Feminists who claim that Hillary is a women’s rights defender should ponder the fates of Lewinsky and the many other women whose reputations and lives lie in tatters because of her husband.


For me, even as a supporter, this is something I wish her, or her campaign would address. I'm guessing it probably has something to do with the notion that there is nothing she could say that wouldn't be used against her by someone.

Arazi

(8,783 posts)
22. Put this Bernie supporter firmly in the camp that Hillary is a feminist
Mon Feb 15, 2016, 09:11 AM
Feb 2016

She's been a tough advocate for women her whole life. I sincerely believe her warmongering is particularly bad for women and children but she's absolutely a feminist

DownriverDem

(6,989 posts)
25. You don't know Hillary at all
Mon Feb 15, 2016, 09:50 AM
Feb 2016

Look folks, vote for Bernie, work for Bernie, love Bernie, but one thing I know for sure is that Hillary is a feminist. Don't even go there because a lot of women I know will be really pissed off.

sarge43

(29,173 posts)
62. OK. Besides talking a good story, exactly what tangible, concrete actions
Mon Feb 15, 2016, 04:20 PM
Feb 2016

has Hillary Clinton ever taken to advance women's rights in her role as a lawyer, senator or sec of state? Saying "cut that out" - not good enough.

A specific to women, practical action, one that might even pose a little risk to her career.

DhhD

(4,695 posts)
28. When has Hillary Clinton lifted a finger to get a $12 minimum wage started in New York?
Mon Feb 15, 2016, 09:56 AM
Feb 2016

If she had have cared about poor women and predator children, her $12 minimum wage would be well on its way just like cities in Oregon with a higher than federal minimum wage dollar figure.

http://livingwage.mit.edu/states/36/locations


$26.19 per hour is the needed living wage for a one child parent in New York.
http://fusion.net/story/171317/15-an-hour-still-isnt-a-living-wage-in-every-single-state/


What has Hillary done to work toward a $12 minimum wage increase in her state of residence, New York, and in reference to the state budget proposals from D-Governor Cuomo? Did she work with the New York Legislature on an increase about the federal minimum wage?

What was Hillary's part in Cuomo's 2013-14 proposal with a $9.00 minimum wage?
https://www.governor.ny.gov/news/governor-cuomo-and-legislative-leaders-announce-early-passage-2013-14-budget


IMO, she has done no background work. I believe that she is untrustworthy over $12.00 per hour minimum wage.

Cryptoad

(8,254 posts)
31. BernBots
Mon Feb 15, 2016, 09:59 AM
Feb 2016

still waiting on that list of Bern's accomplishments that make him worthy of being Prez? Hanging around Congress for 30 yrs aint getting it. He or followers have yet to prove to me that he can grasp a complex thought.

d_legendary1

(2,586 posts)
39. Advocating for Civil Rights? Advocating for equal rights? Advocating for Veterans?
Mon Feb 15, 2016, 10:52 AM
Feb 2016

Advocating for a living wage? Advocating for end of for-profit wars? Advocating for a better health care system? Advocating for our crumbling infrastructure?

Does any of this help or are you looking for the "NOT HILLARY" response?

oldandhappy

(6,719 posts)
42. She is an old style politician.
Mon Feb 15, 2016, 11:11 AM
Feb 2016

Hillary is the most experienced in the race -- no hesitation in saying that. My problem is that it is a different place now. Her negativity makes me scream. She is caught in a time warp. Bill does not look good. Hope he is OK. I did not vote for Hillary last time because I did not want Bill back in the WH. His energy seems low. But his brain and mouth still work. I am on the fence.

 

bettyellen

(47,209 posts)
50. She is both. Everyone running for office is "ambitious" for fucks sake.
Mon Feb 15, 2016, 01:53 PM
Feb 2016

No one is voting "with their vagina" and I am embarrassed at people who need to accuse others of it out of bitterness.
Sliming good people - and groups like PP out of bitterness is carrying water for the real enemy.

 

bettyellen

(47,209 posts)
53. I am kind of amazed by that. I have heard a lot of people parrot the "dishonesty" and "can't listen
Mon Feb 15, 2016, 02:38 PM
Feb 2016

to her" shit. And they usually have only the vaguest reasons why they are saying this shit. I only ask that they try to get beyond the "personality" issues and listen and think, because we should not be voting for the person we want to have a beer with.

 

lumberjack_jeff

(33,224 posts)
54. I guess there are a couple of ways to define feminist
Mon Feb 15, 2016, 02:51 PM
Feb 2016

Hillary's votes, actions and policies have harmed women marginally less than men - so there's that.

Beacool

(30,509 posts)
57. Absolute and utter rubbish!!!!
Mon Feb 15, 2016, 03:22 PM
Feb 2016

Hillary is the most qualified candidate running in this election. It's ridiculous to pretend that her qualifications and support are determined by her gender. Damn offensive!!!

Young women who had never had to struggle for equality don't know what their grandmothers had to go through in the workforce and their daily lives to achieve a modicum of equality. My mother became a feminist and a supporter of abortion early on. She once told me that she got tired of seeing so many women of little means dying or being left sterile because they couldn't afford a doctor to perform their abortions. A lot of these women were married, but the kids kept coming and there wasn't enough money to food so many mouths. Abortions were not only about unmarried women.

Hillary has fought for women's rights since she was a young girl herself and some are now questioning her bonafides in that area???? Bull crap!!!! Young women can vote for Sanders all they want, but that doesn't change that generations of women came before them so that they would have the right to vote and the right to apply to any job. In the 60s they still had job ads stating that women needed not to apply.

BTW, why is the media not calling all the men running "politically ambitious"? Trump, is a narcissistic carnival barker. Cruz is a poster boy for ambition and self serving politics. His own party detests him. Rubio is not ready for prime time.

And how about Sanders? The democratic Socialist who spent his entire political career as an Independent, who ran against Democrats and who for decades refused to join the Democratic party. Oh no, he's not ambitious. He's the milk of human kindness and not a scrappy politician from VT via Brooklyn.

I'M SICK AND TIRED of the jerks that keep calling Hillary ambitious as if every single person who has ever ran for president has not been ambitious. As usual, women have to work harder just to be considered equal to men. She has more experience in a variety of roles within government than anyone else running, but she's being called ambitious as if that's a bad thing for a woman to be.

THE HELL WITH THEM ALL!!!


 

lumberjack_jeff

(33,224 posts)
64. "Young women who had never had to struggle for equality"
Mon Feb 15, 2016, 07:23 PM
Feb 2016

At what point in the past did we cross the finish line?

Latest Discussions»Retired Forums»2016 Postmortem»Hillary Clinton isn’t a f...