Why Does Hillary Keep Lying about Bernie's healthcare plan?

[99th_Monkey]

Hillary, last night in the Las Vegas suburbs (as reported by Washington Post):

We both share the goal of universal health-care coverage, but he wants to start all over again," Clinton said. "And he wants to have a new system that would be quite challenging because you would have to give up the insurance you have now, and it would cost a lot of money.

Are you kidding me? Here we go again. It never ends.

One candidate is principled, stalwart and honest to a fault.

The other candidate trots out a falsehood, gets slammed for it, walks it back. Then she trots out her daughter to trot out the same falsehood, who gets slammed for it, then vanishes back into suspended animation, no doubt on some private island in a far-flung sea.

Then the falsehood goes quiet for a week or so.

Welp. It’s back.

Why vote for a candidate who lies repeatedly, nakedly, and openly?

http://www.dailykos.com/stories/2016/2/15/1485433/-Hillary-Under-Sanders-you-would-have-to-give-up-the-insurance-you-have-now-AGAIN

[peacebird]

1. "Why vote for a candidate who lies repeatedly, nakedly, and openly?" #FeelTheBern instead!

[litlbilly]

2. the more people listen to her, the less chance they will vote for her. They dont get it

[bvar22]

11. Why vote for a candidate who lies repeatedly, nakedly, and openly?

...and then sends her own daughter out to stand in front of the World and repeat her lies?
.
.
.
.
because that is how the Clintons Roll.

[passiveporcupine]

93. The people who are voting for her

who stood behind her in NH, were those making over 200K a year. They like her policies. They like the health insurance they have (because they probably have cadillac plans that they can easily afford), and they don't want to see any kind of change that rocks the boat for them, even if it means helping most of the people in this country.

I got mine. Fuck you.

[Dustlawyer]

106. Why indeed! Hillary is attacking Bernie's health care plan because Americans like it so much.

Everyone at least knows someone struggling with medical costs and dealing with Health Insurance companies. To end all of that is a momentous and great thing! She really has nothing to counter it with and she cannot take the same position because she has already committed to Big Donors that she won't fight for universal health care.

All she has are lies to create doubt that it would work even though it works just fine in many other countries!

[dogman]

3. That's all she has.

I don't want coverage, I want health care. She conflates insurance with care. Those of us already on Medicare would give up nothing. The rest would not pay private companies to control costs by denying health care. She and her family are happy with the system we have because they have theirs, just like a college education.

[Plucketeer]

78. I'll echo your observation.

THAT'S all she has. She's stated catagorically that we simply CAN NOT do "free" health care and that's that! Just like she's stuck with a stance against college educations being part of public education for those who desire to go further. She's actually harmonizing with Trump in some ways - although their motives are a bit different.
Hillary's backwatered herself and she's stuck in the stagnant pond of her own devising. Sails barely fluttering in the pitiful breezes of DNC endorsement - the only thing that remains to be determined is whether or not Bernie ( WE ) are swindled out of the nomination! And given the money and the power (there's more of both than we peons can even BEGIN to comprehend!) at stake, we need to be ready to fight back at whatever Hillay's desperation lobs our way!

[kath]

4. Lying - it's what she does.

isn't there a GEICO commercial like that?

[amborin]

158. +10000

[beam me up scottie]

5. Because she can't run on the issues.

Her only chance to win is by tearing down Bernie's platform.

[99th_Monkey]

8. +10 - I can't argue with that scottie. nt

[GeoWilliam750]

57. Rove politics

Always attack your opponents' strengths. Then they just collapse.

Funny how it is not working this time, when every attack just seems to make Senator Sanders stronger, and the attacker weaker.

And, I agree, versus Senator Sanders, she cannot run on the issues, she cannot run on character, she cannot run on truth, she cannot run on justice. The toolbox is not exactly filled with options other than the backing of the very powerful.

As an aside, Senator Sanders talks about breaking up the banks. I am of the opinion that breaking up the media is a far more urgent task.

[ReallyIAmAnOptimist]

121. Yep. Bernie is running against Carl Rove in a pants suit...

...that would only be funny if it weren't true.

[SoapBox]

59. Absolutely!

Why don't her supporters scream for her to stick to issues and her platform?

Oh ya...1%, Wall Street, Banksters, War Machine, big money, big power, capital punishment...no wonder they do not want her to talk issues.

[Faux pas]

6. "Why Does Hillary Keep Lying about Bernie's healthcare plan?"

Simple answer? She's a lyin' liar. That is all.

[MisterP]

7. because she's reshaped the party to the point where cadres can say "I literally do not care

what the candidate says or proposes or passes, I support the candidate because the candidate's the candidate"

[Kittycat]

102. Reminds me of GWBush supporters

[MisterP]

105. DU was rife with this in '08--that's what confirmed for me that Obama was a corpo protege of Rahm

and Rezko and not The Great Hope that'd keep all his promises and burn the GOP to the ground to boot

a lot of things have swung around (Obama dislikes Rahm, but picked DWS instead) and a lot of the "cult" claims indeed came from the PUMAs, but ever since Arsenio politics was about the cool factor and personality, and you supported them regardless of policy--Bill even got people defending letting a quivering, starstruck intern into his pants (it was only coincidence that it was Lewinsky) and the Dotcom bust

presidents now use their personal appeal to delay and mute their voters' demands for what they promised (Roe v. Wade for the RWers, Single Payer for Dems)

[grasswire]

144. interesting

never thought of that last sentence of yours.

[Ferd Berfel]

9. She's got nothing else. She has to go Rove

[pinebox]

10. Because that's what Clinton's do is lie lie lie

From Bosnian sniper fire to not inhaling to well, you know what else is next. On and on. And on! To millions of people. And yet her supporters defend that like it's nothing.

It's utterly disgusting.

[Dragonfli]

12. Habitual liars gonna' lie

Pathological lying (also called pseudologia fantastica and mythomania), is a behavior of habitual or compulsive lying. It was first described in the medical literature in 1891 by Anton Delbrueck. Although it is a controversial topic, pathological lying has been defined as "falsification entirely disproportionate to any discernible end in view, may be extensive and very complicated, and may manifest over a period of years or even a lifetime". The individual may be aware they are lying, or may believe they are telling the truth.

[dchill]

30. In other words, they lie...

when the truth would work better.

[Dragonfli]

32. and they can't even help it /nt

[Dragonfli]

70. .

[jwirr]

116. I really do not think it is pathological. She and Bill say what

they have to in order to win. It is to further their goal. It is politics as usual without any ethics at all.

She actually thinks she can win by making people afraid they are going to lose their health care. So she comes up with this idea that to have single payer healthcare we would have to start totally over. Which we all know is a bunch of bull.

Medicare is one of the best models we have and there are a lot of others such as the VA, Medicaid, Indian Health Services, etc. that can and will be wrapped into a final single health care program.

What really angers me is that this woman has been claiming to want to help women and children for years. And what we have gotten out of her - welfare "reform", tough on crime laws, bankruptcy laws that ignore women's needs, and a lot more things that help upper class women but only help to destroy the families of the poor.

This lie is just one more screw the poor lies again.

[questionseverything]

44. they lie when the truth would work just as well

look at the john lewis endorsement or re endorsement,since he had already come out for her

that should of been a great day for hc, instead they added these layers of crap tarnishing everyone around them

i do not blame lewis at all but capehart is a total tool

the good part is more and more people are realizing the msm is nothing but propaganda

[Enthusiast]

55. I'm glad we have diagnosed it at least. I have seen it before.

[HooptieWagon]

13. Because fear-mongering is effective on conservative minds.

That is why RWers go to that well so frequently. Except on a few social issues, Hillary and her supporters are near to Jeb...much to the right of Sanders. Since it is her mindset, Hillary assumes the fear-mongering is effective on everyone. Be afraid of tax increases! Be afraid of the Supreme Court! Etc. But that tactic is largely ineffectual on liberals. I don't have a link handy, someone can google it...but there was a study done of conservative and liberal brains. The researchers discovered that the part of the brain that processes fear is much larger in conservatives than liberals. I'll again state my strong belief that the DLC/Third Way are de facto pro-choice republicans.

[dsc]

14. On what planet is that a lie

those of us insured privately, which is the majority of the nation it should be noted, would indeed lose our current insurance. Some of us would see increases (I almost certainly would).

[DirkGently]

16. On every planet?

She's implying that merely moving toward a single-payer system would magically strip people of their existing coverage.

Here's Chelsea's bizarre attempt at this rhetoric.

"Sen. Sanders wants to dismantle Obamacare, dismantle the [Children's Health Insurance Program], dismantle Medicare, and dismantle private insurance," she said, according to an account from NBC News. "I worry if we give Republicans Democratic permission to do that, we'll go back to an era -- before we had the Affordable Care Act -- that would strip millions and millions and millions of people off their health insurance."

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/entry/chelsea-clinton-bernie-sanders-single-payer_us_56956c06e4b05b3245dad15a

Nothing about pursuing single-payer would force anyone to stop buying private health insurance if they still wanted it.

People might well decide to abandon private insurance in favor of the lower cost of universal care, of course, but saying that "Millions and millions and millions" of people might decide to choose better, cheaper health coverage would sound pretty stupid, wouldn't it?

So instead the Clinton campaign is nonsensically implying that somehow people will end up with less than they currently have, which is ridiculous and intellectually dishonest to the core. We might get single-payer or we might not, but there is no reason whatsoever to assume we'd somehow lose the modest reforms of the ACA in the process.

[dsc]

17. it would

the whole point of what Bernie wants to do is eliminate insurance coverage.

[DirkGently]

26. You mean it might eliminate the NEED for insurance coverage?

But that is a pretty silly game to play, don't you think? Is the argument supposed to be that "millions and millions and millions" of Americans will be hurt and upset if they suddenly no longer NEED private insurance, because a universal government-run system has been put into place?

Because if so, it would be pretty easy to argue that single-payer coverage is a bad idea, and an insurance scheme is better, instead of implying that millions of people would "lose" something.

This is the core of the deceit here. The Clinton campaign crafted a talking point that sounds like Sanders has some plan to strip away everyone's health coverage, or that fighting for single-payer would somehow destroy the ACA.

Neither is true. If she wants to argue that people are in danger of not *needing* private health insurance anymore, that would be pretty simple to clarify.

[shanti]

38. +1

[arcane1]

63. Exactly! It's amazing to see that nonsense being parrotted here as if it's a valid argument.

"This is the core of the deceit" indeed!

[Enthusiast]

65. Thank you!

[Shadowflash]

74. Truth.

It's amazing that a candidate in a DEMOCRATIC primary would actively campaign AGAINST single payer.

If people wish to line the pockets of the insurance vultures, more power to them, single payer won't prevent that. But the rest of us would like health care not private, for profit, insurance.

[Z_California]

36. Rich folk could still have their insurance

Private insurance still exists in other single payer systems.

Let's not play dumb with each other, this is campaign rhetoric that is designed to scare people and it's intellectually dishonest. Using semantics to defend it comes off as dishonest too.

[dsc]

103. it depends

and it is one of the myriad of details that Sanders won't answer. A true single payer system wouldn't permit private insurance of any kind. His clear implication is that he is saying there won't be insurance companies but he doesn't say one way or the other.

[arcane1]

61. Which is a Good Thing to any rational person who isn't making money off insurance premiums.

[ReallyIAmAnOptimist]

130. Single Payer eliminates the MIDDLEMAN (big insurance)...

which doesn't affect the doctors and allied health providers you use/choose...

it just changes who is paying them.

Providers win by cutting overhead costs (every doc needs two full-time billing persons just to deal with the enormous burden of private insurance paperwork (and runaround).

It's estimated that Single Payer will cut overhead costs by 25 to 30% by:
1) removing the zero-value-add insurance industry
2) reducing overhead at the provider level

Ultimately the reduction is overall costs will drop our health expenditures from ~17% GDP to 12-13% of GDP.

I'm a allied health professional (registered dietitian) and I well remember reading back in 1999 that health care costs could become a national security issue if they were not reined in... our system is just one of many ways we flush good money down the toilet. I've also got in laws in Canada who LOVE their system and get really irritated with clueless Americans bashing theirs!

[cosmicone]

15. Meh ... "Hillary Bad Bernie Good" thread No.1,756,839 n/t

[retrowire]

20. Meh... "Unable to explain Hillary's dishonesty" post No.2,867,941 n/t

[asuhornets]

21. Right..

Sanders is a saint, can do no wrong. I believe they are trying to convince all Hillary supporters to just give up. Strange.

[retrowire]

28. Meh... "Unable to explain Hillary's dishonesty" post No.2,867,942 n/t

[asuhornets]

31. The repugs have done an excellent

job of creating that perception. But it is a shame that people here say it as well.

[retrowire]

39. You've got people in this very thread explaining why it's a lie.

And then you've got people like you who call it a Republican crafted perception.

If it were a Republican crafted perception, then I'd wonder why the majority of Democrats think of Hillary as dishonest.

After all, who get's the highest vote in a poll that asks, "Cares about people like you?"

Who gets the highest vote in polls that ask "Who's more honest?"

Sigh... There's a ton of evidence out there that Hillary isn't a very honest person. To look at all that and say, "REPUGS!" is willingly being ignorant to facts.

[asuhornets]

54. No you are ignorant to the fact that the Clintons have been..

targets of the republicans for over 25 years but I am sure you know that. You just don't want to admit that the negativity against Hillary have been republican talking points for years. And those same talking points are being made here at DU.

[retrowire]

72. Just because Republicans have their talking points

does not invalidate the legitimate talking points that have concerned Democrats this entire time.

Hillary isn't trusted. By either side.

We're talking about a Democratic talking point in this very thread, yet you want to point at Republicans.

Can we stay on the subject? Please? How is that statement the truth?

[geologic]

85. We have all been targets of the Repuglycans over the last 25 years--

some of us won't surrender...

[asuhornets]

110. that's where you are wrong..

there have been a concerted, defined, laser, fanatical, and malicious attack on the Clintons to bring them down for years, but they still standing and I love it.

[geologic]

112. They sent me to The Georgia Chain Gang...

[asuhornets]

114. right..

[geologic]

123. In 1980--

85 years no parole plus 12 months plus $25,000 fine,
reduced to 25 years plus $25,000 fine;
what is Hillary's position on growin' merrywanna these days???

Has she answered that question yet--
or is she still "thinking" about it???...

[asuhornets]

124. She is for medical marijuana..

I'm for recreational, although I do not indulge.

[geologic]

131. She's for private prison work camps too--

right???...

[asuhornets]

136. wrong..n/t

[geologic]

139. Doesn't she take a bunch of money from the coporate prison crowd--

and their, ah, ah, ah; (can't use them words) ah--
guards' unions???...

[asuhornets]

141. no..n/t

[geologic]

140. Can you point me to somewhere this stuff is refuted--

it's getting very confusing...

http://www.dailykos.com/story/2015/7/23/1405229/-Private-Prison-Corporations-Stand-With-Hillary-Clinton
https://theintercept.com/2015/07/23/private-prison-lobbyists-raising-cash-hillary-clinton/
http://www.truthdig.com/eartotheground/item/private_prison_lobbyists_are_fundraising_for_hillary_clinton_20150724

[asuhornets]

142. That's your problem

U r going to have to do your own research. Not my job.


Go Hillary

[geologic]

143. So you answer my two questions: "no" and "wrong"--

but you have absolutely nothing to back-up your "no" and "wrong"!!!
Wow...

[asuhornets]

145. Hey if you..

have talk yourself out of voting for Hillary. Fine. But my vote for her is set in stone. No candidate is perfect. But she is most qualified and I am excited about voting for her. I simply do not get all the negativity towards her from Democrats.

[geologic]

150. Asking for links to back-up your two answers is "negativity"???

"Maybe the dark is from your eyes"...

[geologic]

135. http://www.naturalblaze.com/2016/02/report-all-cannabis-use-is-medicinal-whether-you-know-it-or-not.

http://www.naturalblaze.com/2016/02/report-all-cannabis-use-is-medicinal-whether-you-know-it-or-not.html

[asuhornets]

18. Because she is telling the truth..

about his healthcare plan, therefore she must be lying. No one has seriously vetted his plan and those that did said it will not work the way Sanders says.

[PinkTiger]

22. Thank you.

I have studied all this intensively, and feel that throwing out the ACA to seek Congressional approval of another plan would, at this point, be a wrong move. Maybe if we had a Democratic house and senate. But under the present situation or foreseeable next term not a good idea.

[retrowire]

25. Why buy the lie,

that the ACA would be thrown out while Bernie's plan is introduced?

Does it really make feasible sense that our government would REMOVE our nations healthcare completely and THEN reinstate healthcare that is better?

OR

Does it make more sense that the system would slowly transition from the ACA to Medicare for All?

Because believe me, it makes no sense that Bernie wants to shutdown the ACA.

[Enthusiast]

51. NO ONE but Hillary supporters are saying we will throw out the ACA as a first step.

Then seek the votes for Medicare For All.

That is an absurd claim.

[cui bono]

157. It would be a wrong move. That's why Bernie wouldn't do it.

Hillary likes to claim that's what he's planning on doing because it is such a stupid move she wants people to believe he wants to do that. But he doesn't and most people are too smart to believe this lie.

.

[retrowire]

23. Do explain...

How Bernie will start us all over? How we'll all GO back to before Obamacare?

Because one would think, we would convert and transition to the new plan. I can't see how it makes any sense that we would have everything taken away only to get it all back and then some.

And also, they aren't both about Universal Healthcare, because weeks ago Hillary stated it will, "Never ever ever happen."

[asuhornets]

27. 90% of Americans are already insured.

I pay $158/month BluCross/Shield Gold. I can live with that.

[retrowire]

29. You've got yours so fuck everyone else. Got it.

So anyways, how is she telling the truth about accusing Bernie of literally disabling ACA and starting us over from the top?

[asuhornets]

42. Wait a minute..

I do give a fuck about those who do not have insurance. If Hillary is president, I have no doubt whatsoever, she will expand Obamacare to the remaining. Sanders plan will automatically change how the ACA works. Like Hillary said in the last debate, does Sanders really believe repugs governors are going to contribute billions of dollars to his health care proposal. No way.

[retrowire]

48. What's Hillary going to do to change Pat McCrory's mind?

Nothing.

Because under the ACA, I myself am royally fucked. Because MY state doesn't allow it to work to it's fullest extent.

Should Hillary become president, you think my Republican controlled state is going to budge a little more? Nope.

Also, don't avoid the subject at hand. Is Hillary telling the truth when she and her daughter says that Bernie wants to "would strip millions and millions and millions of people off their health insurance."

Strip everyone helplessly of their health insurance. Truth? Really?

[asuhornets]

69. I don't believe..

Sanders want to strip us from our current plan, but that is what his plan calls for-something new.

[retrowire]

73. So then Hillary is lying when she and her daughter

tell Americans (Don't insult our intelligence Hillary) that Bernie wants to strip millions and millions and millions of their health insurance.

You'll probably argue, "no, they mean that he wants to take away our current plan and give us something better." Well that's not how the Clintons are spelling it out. They're saying we'd have it all taken away, then we'd have to start over again.

It's lying because that's not what Bernie wants to do.

[asuhornets]

75. No one believes

Sanders want to kick them off their insurance plans, without providing something else in its place.

[retrowire]

82. Then how do you explain...

The poster who had thanked you for your defense of Hillary's lie?

http://www.democraticunderground.com/?com=view_post&forum=1251&pid=1240409

PinkTiger is under the impression that Bernie would "Throw out the ACA". Which is the perspective that we'd lose our current plans altogether.

[asuhornets]

83. leaving work, i'll answer that when i get home...eom

[SoapBox]

50. That just seems like more, No We Can't.

And nice premium for you...my partner via ACA has Blue Cross/Shield, Gold Plan and it's over $500 per month!

How long can people possibly pay those kind of premiums in advance of maybe making it to Medicare?

Healthcare needs a TOTAL remake and just tweeking Obamacare ain't gonna cut it.

[retrowire]

88. my plan would be over $600 under the ACA.

and that ain't including my wife.

so yeah. the ACA doesn't work for me and I doubt, HIGHLY DOUBT that Hillary would make it cheaper.

[questionseverything]

64. how will she expand the aca to the 29 million left uncovered

or help the 40 million that are covered and can not afford to use it?

there is no plan or idea on her website explaining it

glad you are covered and for you it is reasonable unfortunately for those over 50, that pay 3 times as much as a younger person the 8% in premiums plus the 6 grand a piece out of pocket per person add up to 30% of income at my house

so what is hc's next step....put those that can not afford the aca in prison?

[retrowire]

89. [phone] nt

[geardaddy]

71. You're lucky.

Mine started out at $300+ a month, just for me. I'm glad the ACA passed, since I have a pre-existing condition, but now BCBS has raised my monthly premium to ~$550. I can't wait to see what it'll cost me next year.

[Shadowflash]

76. Hmmmmm.

Are you positive you are on the correct website?

[asuhornets]

77. Absolutely..R U?

[Duval]

100. We are a retired couple here and pay Blue Crap/Bull Sh$% $500.00 plus a month.

And we are on Medicare. Plus, we read in the Sunday News and Observer that they are increasing their premiums by 35%.

Perhaps you are a student? My granddaughters just graduated from East Carolina U last May. I'll ask them what they had to pay.

[asuhornets]

109. Not a student...

I work for the state of Georgia.

[liberal_at_heart]

113. So the argument is ACA is good enough. We don't need to improve on it?

No thank you. I currently have $4000 in copays that I cannot pay. Not buying that ACA is good enough. Not for a minute.

[asuhornets]

115. it's not good enough...eom

[99th_Monkey]

134. How about this?

How about a Hillary v. Bernie debate, hosted by 20,000 physicians, on how
to move a "Healthcare For All" agenda forward?

These 20,000+ doctors appear to be willing to host such an event. Then we would have
a very well-informed debate -- out in the open, where lies would wilt in mid-air -- as to
how best to get ALL Americans affordably covered ASAP?

Would you be for that?

FOR IMMEDIATE RELEASE, January 22, 2016
Contact: Mark Almberg, PNHP communications director, [phone], [e-mail]

Physicians for a National Health Program, a nonprofit, nonpartisan organization of 20,000 doctors who support single-payer national health insurance, released the following statement today by its president, Dr. Robert Zarr, a Washington, D.C., pediatrician.

The national debate on single-payer health reform, or "Medicare for All," that has emerged in the course of the presidential primaries is a welcome development. But unfortunately a number of misrepresentations about single-payer national health insurance – and the prospects for its attainment – have crept into the dialogue and are potentially misleading the public.

Most of these misrepresentations, or myths, have been decisively refuted by peer-reviewed research.
http://www.pnhp.org/news/2016/january/doctors-group-welcomes-national-debate-on-‘medicare-for-all’

[rhett o rick]

47. Sorry but you contradict yourself. Did "no one vet his plan" or "did some and they all said

it won't work"? His plan doesn't start from scratch. Whoever is making that claim can't back it up. More Swift Boating.

[arcane1]

66. Timeouts suck, don't they?

[Jester Messiah]

80. If she told me the sky was blue I'd look out a window, just to check. [nt]

[Helen Borg]

19. When the facts are against you, lie about the facts.

No other way, really.

[AzDar]

68. ^ This.

[BlueJazz]

24. I've known a few unsavory people who have worked for Insurance companies.

Even THEY will tell you that Insurance companies are a pack of heartless, dishonest pricks.

[Enthusiast]

41. And useless profiteers.

[99Forever]

33. Lying liars gotta lie.

That is Hillary being herself. Doing what she does, even when being truthful would be a better option. I start to think it might be pathological.

[Ino]

34. Because it's a winning strategy for her...

If you know she's lying and it bothers you, you're a lost cause anyway as far as she's concerned.

If you know she's lying and it doesn't bother you, you're in the tank for her.

She's after those who don't know she's lying, and who can be influenced by her tall tales.

She feels no shame being called out on lies... she has a dozen ways to pivot (all my conflicting votes/statements are grounded in my core values and principles), or turn the attack around (Bernie's not so honest... how about that photo?!), or change the subject (Well, my daughter gave a speech and I love her, but let me tell you about this...). She thinks the ends justifies the means, that everyone lies, that it's all part of the game.

She's learned from the Repukes that while everyone is chasing down one lie, she can spout a half dozen more. No one can catch up; no one can get their own message out if they're all putting out her fires.

Her aim is not to be honest. It's to be First Woman President (TM) by any means.

[99th_Monkey]

46. Well, lying only works up to a point, beyond which it's obvious and an insult to the electorate.nt

[Ino]

52. I think it's probably obvious to most of her supporters...

but I doubt if they feel insulted. They want to see her as president, by any means.

[99th_Monkey]

91. I've seen on DU several ex-Hillary supporters change to Bernie

and Bernie's the one who keeps trending, Hillary just the opposite.

Yet time is short, so it's anyone guess how this will turn out.

[Ino]

99. Oh, that's great!

I have an extensive ignore list, so I didn't realize

[PonyUp]

35. The same reason she lies about everything else.

[Enthusiast]

37. K&R! This post should have hundreds of recommendations!

Blatant obvious lies!

Negative sentiments directed toward Hillary are perfectly justified after lies like that. How can you people support someone that would lie like that?

We'll have to give up the insurance we have now? Fantastic! And we will never need insurance again!

[kristopher]

40. I understand she's losing nearly 20% of her 2008 support..

She isn't trying to get new voters (who already think she isn't trustworthy) she's trying to hold onto a group that at least once trusted her enough to support her.

I guess she thinks they won't fact check her.

[SoapBox]

43. It's the age old BOO! tactic.

She can't help herself...dirty politics is in the Clinton blood.

I wonder if Wall Street Chelsea is still spewing this lie as well?

[99th_Monkey]

49. I guess that's all she's got, but platforms built on lies are easily toppled. nt

[frylock]

45. She can't help it?

[arcane1]

53. Hillary's BIG LIE is to pretend that "coverage" and "care" are the same thing.

It's one of the biggest lies she tells. I've seen it repeated on this website as well.

She is more concerned about insurance industry profits than she is about people's actual health care.

Hell, I have coverage! But I can barely afford the care. That's exactly the way Clinton wants it.

[Cleita]

56. Because her plan sucks and she knows it, but she's too beholden

to the corporate for profit health and insurance industries to change her position.

[loyalsister]

58. Two unfortunate possibilities

She is so insulated that she doesn't understand that the ACA has hurt more than helped some people. Or, she doesn't care.

Either way, she comes across as callous and calculating when she dismisses the serious gaps that are negatively affecting the lives of real people.

[Karma13612]

122. ^^^^ +1000 ^^^^

[TBF]

60. Why does she keep lying about any and everything? It's what she does. nt

[Laughing Mirror]

62. She's got to give her donors what they paid for

Or they'll stop paying.

That's her livelihood if not her whole life. That's what she is. That's what she does. Gets people to pay her fabulous sums, for which they expect fabulous lies.

[valerief]

67. It's legal for pols to lie. The courts said so. nt

[monicaangela]

79. Hillary Clinton lying again and

trying to solidify her corporate insurance lobby vote. I just can't see how voters can continue to watch her lie about this and so many other things and believe she is going to be a great President.

[Fearless]

81. Because she is a liar.

She would say anything to be president.

[SammyWinstonJack]

98. That's it. Because she's A LIAR!

Lying Liars and the Lies They Tell.

[Beacool]

128. Unlike the guy who makes promises he won't be able to keep?

[mikehiggins]

84. Welp, aka, CUB is a great horror flick though not really a Boy Scout recruiting film.

Oh, the election? Somebody somewhere told HRC that line was a winner. The fact that she knows it isn't true is irrelevant.

The Clinton's will do ANYTHING to win. That is the way they roll.

And they have good reason to believe theirs is a winning strategy. Millions of people, mostly the poor, were hurt by Clinton welfare reform. Millions of young black men are in jail because of marijuana arrests. An unknown number of black women, mothers, were denied the chance to return to their families because of the way laws about crack were enforced. And so on and so forth.

Right wingers think Obama is going to overthrow the government.

Lots of poor people think Bill Clinton "feels your pain."

HRC claims Sanders wants to sell the idea that the ACA is the best thing since white bread and trying for single payer will cause a lot of bad feelings.

Its hard so lets not try.

Maybe CUB isn't the only horror movie playing right now.

[chknltl]

86. Because in a gvmnt of by n for highest bidder...

...that is what they pay you to do. Maybe it is time for the citizenry to have a revolution. A government of by and for the people sounds kinda revolutionary.

[99th_Monkey]

94. Yes.

for the Political Revolution

[PatrynXX]

87. cause if you repeat a lie long enough people think it's real

thus I can See Russia From My House (said Tina Fey) not that other lady. but it was repeated so often everyone thought it was the 1/2 gov. Now why Hillary continue's to use Tea Part tactics is behind me. They don't work.

[RoccoR5955]

90. To quote Joseph Goebels,

"If you repeat a lie often enough, people will believe it, and you will even come to believe it yourself."

[99th_Monkey]

97. I think that was truer before social media ..

.. because so far Bernie's been able to counter & quash the lies within hours.

I think this is a hopeful sign, hopefully

[RoccoR5955]

107. There are still an awful lot of folks

who are not on social media, just so you know.
This is addressed mostly to them.
Besides, I have seen lies on social media that get repeated, and people, being who they are, believe what they want, no matter how many resources are cited. Keep repeating the lie, and they will assuredly believe it.

[99th_Monkey]

117. I'm not quite that pessimistic just yet.

The Revolution is still on, and I'm on-board 100%. How about you?

[RoccoR5955]

155. I am all for the Revolution

I am merely trying to be realistic.

[bowens43]

92. is there anything she doesn't lie about?

[jmowreader]

95. Probably because Hillary, unlike you, has read S.1782

This is Bernie's last attempt to implement a single-payer system. We can assume the BernieCare program he's campaigning on is either S.1782 or is based on it - why wouldn't it be? Read S.1782 at:

https://www.congress.gov/bill/113th-congress/senate-bill/1782/text#toc-H716D5A92DD3E4EEC8294E50014006911

SEC. 106. RELATIONSHIP TO EXISTING FEDERAL HEALTH PROGRAMS.
(a) Medicare, Medicaid And State Children’s Health Insurance Program (SCHIP).—

(1) IN GENERAL.—Notwithstanding any other provision of law, subject to paragraph (2)—

(A) no benefits shall be available under title XVIII of the Social Security Act for any item or service furnished after December 31, 2014;

(B) no individual is entitled to medical assistance under a State plan approved under title XIX of such Act for any item or service furnished after such date;

(C) no individual is entitled to medical assistance under an SCHIP plan under title XXI of such Act for any item or service furnished after such date; and

(D) no payment shall be made to a State under section 1903(a) or 2105(a) of such Act with respect to medical assistance or child health assistance for any item or service furnished after such date.

(2) TRANSITION.—In the case of inpatient hospital services and extended care services during a continuous period of stay which began before January 1, 2015, and which had not ended as of such date, for which benefits are provided under title XVIII, under a State plan under title XIX, or a State child health plan under title XXI, of the Social Security Act, the Secretary of Health and Human Services and each State plan, respectively, shall provide for continuation of benefits under such title or plan until the end of the period of stay.

(b) Federal Employees Health Benefits Program.—No benefits shall be made available under chapter 89 of title 5, United States Code, for any part of a coverage period occurring after December 31, 2014.

(c) TRICARE.—No benefits shall be made available under sections 1079 and 1086 of title 10, United States Code, for items or services furnished after December 31, 2014.

(d) Treatment Of Benefits For Veterans And Native Americans.—Nothing in this Act shall affect the eligibility of veterans for the medical benefits and services provided under title 38, United States Code, or of Indians for the medical benefits and services provided by or through the Indian Health Service.

(e) Treatment Of Premium Credits, Cost-Sharing Reductions, And Small Employer Credits.—

(1) IN GENERAL.—For each calendar year, the Secretary of the Treasury shall transfer to the American Health Security Trust Fund an amount equal to the sum of—

(A) the premium assistance credit amount which would have been allowable to taxpayers residing in such State in such calendar year under section 36B of the Internal Revenue Code of 1986 (relating to refundable credit for coverage under a qualified health plan), as added by section 1401 of the Patient Protection and Affordable Care Act, if such section were in effect for such year,

(B) the amount of cost-sharing reductions which would have been required with respect to eligible insured residing in such State in such calendar year under section 1402 of the Patient Protection and Affordable Care Act if such section were in effect for such year, plus

(C) the amount of tax credits which would have been allowable to eligible small employers doing business in such State in such calendar year under section 45R of the Internal Revenue Code of 1986 if such section were in effect for such calendar year.

(2) DETERMINATION.—The amounts determined under paragraph (1) shall be estimated by the Secretary of the Treasury in consultation with the Secretary of Health and Human Services.

SEC. 107. REPEAL OF PROVISIONS RELATED TO THE STATE EXCHANGES.
Title I of the Patient Protection and Affordable Care Act (Public Law 111–148) (and the amendments made by title I) is repealed.

So, in Bernie's own words:

BernieCare repeals Medicare
BernieCare repeals Medicaid
BernieCare repeals SCHIP
BernieCare repeals Tricare
BernieCare repeals Obamacare

...and if the GOP manages to get a lawsuit through the Supreme Court that overturns the funding mechanisms in BernieCare, or they get a GOP president in 2020 who signs a bill repealing BernieCare, public funding of healthcare is dead in the United States.

[Yavin4]

101. Bernie has no political nor legislative strategy to implement single payer other than...

"involving more Americans in the political process", which is basically meaningless. When a poitician promises something without a coherent legislative, political, and revenue funding strategy, he/she is engaging in pure pandering.

[Beacool]

126. Zing, right to the jaw!!!

[Duval]

96. Easy answer to your question is

I WILL NOT! What the "H" is wrong with her? Now I can hardly stand to hear her voice. We have to pray she is not the Nominee, if we want a Democrat in the White House. Get Out The Vote...me and you!!

[pdsimdars]

104. It's who she is. . .

it's what the Clintons have always done.
And Stephanie Miller has bought into the whole thing. That makes me sad.

[Spitfire of ATJ]

108. Not only THAT but he's going to throw open the prisons and we'll all DIE!!!

[Maedhros]

111. Because she targets low-information voters that

A. Don't know the truth
and
B. Don't bother to find out.

She's building a personality cult.

[99th_Monkey]

118. Good answer.

Can't argue with that, even if I wanted to.

[Maedhros]

120. Consider this post from the Hillary group:

I haven't heard a good thing about Hillary Clinton from anyone (outside my own thoughts and a few people who agree) in so long, I begin to question my judgment. And yet, I know that a Hillary presidency would be good for this country. I also can't think of anyone else I would want in the White House at this moment.

What is this, other than someone explaining a crisis of faith? Presented by unsavory facts regarding Hillary as a candidate, the poster still "know(s) that a Hillary presidency would be good for this country."

This is not the mindset of a critically-thinking member of the electorate, but of a religious adherent.

[99th_Monkey]

127. Well, They "saw it on TeeVee"

So it must be true?

[Beacool]

125. Projecting much?

That sounds like Sanders.

[Karma13612]

119. She is still living in a pre-social-media world.

She thinks she can get away with this.

She is desperate and grasping at straws.

[Hoyt]

129. She's being very truthful. Her plan will get her there long before Sanders' plan.

[99th_Monkey]

132. How about a Hillary v. Bernie debate on "Healthcare For All"?

These 20,000+ doctors appear to be willing to host such an event. Then we would have
a very well-informed debate -- out in the open, where lies would wilt in mid-air -- as to
how best to get ALL Americans affordably covered ASAP?

Would you be for that?

FOR IMMEDIATE RELEASE, January 22, 2016
Contact: Mark Almberg, PNHP communications director, [phone], [e-mail]

Physicians for a National Health Program, a nonprofit, nonpartisan organization of 20,000 doctors who support single-payer national health insurance, released the following statement today by its president, Dr. Robert Zarr, a Washington, D.C., pediatrician.

The national debate on single-payer health reform, or "Medicare for All," that has emerged in the course of the presidential primaries is a welcome development. But unfortunately a number of misrepresentations about single-payer national health insurance – and the prospects for its attainment – have crept into the dialogue and are potentially misleading the public.

Most of these misrepresentations, or myths, have been decisively refuted by peer-reviewed research.
http://www.pnhp.org/news/2016/january/doctors-group-welcomes-national-debate-on-‘medicare-for-all’

[Hoyt]

137. That's 2% of docs, but I'm sure more support it. Problem is, Congress doesn't AND

over 40% of voters don't. Worse, another 10 to 20‰ won't get the tax increase will replace premiums. They are just that stupid. And Sanders projected tax increase us too low.

A public option is easier to add to Obamacare, still gives those who need choice (I'm fine with Medicare for all, but a lot aren't) an option if they don't want the government plan. If government plan is really better, within a few years most people will sign up for it.

[99th_Monkey]

138. 20,000 docs is better than Zero Docs.

It would make for a much more informed and intelligent debate IMHO.

Why would you not want that? We'd probably BOTH learn something.

Unless of course you already know it all.

[Hoyt]

147. Yeah, you might find Congress won't even look at Medicare for all, and a lot of

people don't want it either. They may be stupid, but that is a fact.

[99th_Monkey]

149. OK. Got it .. "many people" are complete idiots, so we should cede the argument to idiots. nt

[Hoyt]

151. Nope, we take a course where they don't even know what is happening.

A public option added to Obamacare avoids a big battle. Even Sanders knows it won't fly, and his supporters won't figure it out until it's crushed, Obamacare is repealed, and we end up with a voucher system.

[99th_Monkey]

152. Does Hillar support a public option added to Obamacare?

Link?

[Hoyt]

154. I actually think she does. But, unlike Sanders, she's wise enough not to give Republicans something

to use against her. She's playing the long game, while Sanders is making promises he can't keep.

[99th_Monkey]

156. You do not have perfect knowledge as to what promises Sanders can/cannot keep.

despite you're insistence to the contrary. You have on opinion about that,
but that's simply your opinion, not mine.

[yodermon]

159. You have it literally completely backwards.

*campaign* on the perfect, compromise on the good.
Obama *campaigned* on a public option, and got the ACA (no public option).
If Obama had campaigned on single payer, maybe we'd have gotten the public option.

Bernie is campaigning on single payer.. maybe we could get a public option. The point is to rally support behind and IDEAL, not just wave your hands and give a vague promise to "expand the ACA".. wtf does that mean? That doesn't inspire confidence or rally any kind of movement for change.

Voters want to be inspired. The rightwing will attack / slander Hillary's CENTRIST compromise-y positions as leftwing commie pinkie just as they would Bernie. I'd rather have a president stake out a TRUE LIBERAL position and negotiate from that position of strength instead of starting in the mushy middle and being drawn even further to the right (while being accused of being far-left).

[jfern]

133. She's a compulsive liar

[H2O Man]

146. For the most obvious reason.

Recommended.

[hifiguy]

148. Lies are all she has left at this point.

So she may as well go big.

[madokie]

153. Hillary has only one thing going for her

and that is she is Woman.
Other than that she has nothing.
What has she done for me as an old Vet, nothing
What has she done for my wife as an old Nurse, nothing.
What has she done for my sis who is an old teacher, nothing.

I could go on and on but I think you get my drift.

What has Hillary done for any of us that aren't in the upper income bracket? Not a fucking thing