Why Bernie Sanders is struggling with Black voters in South Carolina

[bravenak]

http://time.com/4226723/bernie-sanders-black-voters-south-carolina/

[bravenak]

1. Excerpt:

A CNN polls finds Clinton leading among black voters, 65% to 28%

To understand why Hillary Clinton’s presidential campaign is not in meltdown mode after an indecisive tie in Iowa and a blowout in New Hampshire, it’s important to take a look at her rival’s crowds.

Here in Charleston, S.C., as Bernie Sanders rallied his supporters on Tuesday, the audience was almost entirely white. It’s simply impossible to win the state’s Democratic primary with only white voters. If 2008’s primary electorate is any hint, white voters will be in the minority when Democrats vote on Feb. 27.

Sanders made the cursory nod to the Civil Rights movement here in this deeply Southern city. But he largely stuck to his standard fare: Wall Street and super PACs are bad, corporate greed is evil and a populist revolution is afoot.

“Together, we’re going to create an economy that works for working families … not just the 1 Percent,” Sanders said. “What does that mean? That means in America, someone who works 40 hours a week should not live in poverty.”

[Ruby the Liberal]

4. I hope I don't regret asking this

(and I just unhid this forum on Iowa Caucus day, so sorry if I missed the back story...)

Why exactly is this position a problem?


On Edit: This part

“Together, we’re going to create an economy that works for working families … not just the 1 Percent,” Sanders said. “What does that mean? That means in America, someone who works 40 hours a week should not live in poverty.”

[bravenak]

5. He can never address black issues specifically or separately when speaking to crowds

Or in forums.

Really his position is no problem but due to race issues, blacks find themselves sidelined and left out of many economic programs like with the New Deal.


His strength is economic equality, but his weakness is he fails to address how race plays a rold and get specific on how his plans will avoid that pitfall. Because there never HAS been a program for the 'general public' that we were not treated unfairly.

[Ruby the Liberal]

15. I hadn't thought in those terms before.

What would such a program look like?

[bravenak]

16. Affirmative action

[berniepdx420]

27. But the same ol' same ol' that you will get with hillary won't change anything for sure...

[bravenak]

28. I won't get ignored by HER

[berniepdx420]

29. Where on Wall-steet do you work...

[bravenak]

31. Funny. She has the majority of black voters. Are we wall streeters?

Not a part of the 99? Oligarchs? Funny. I feel left out of the masses. Hmm.

[berniepdx420]

32. It's still early.. I feel that black voters need to hear Bernie's message.. I think when they

do they will recognize that Bernie is articulating their Struggle, that black voters know all to well.

Hillary is part of the problem.. she is for the status quot.. which sees the rich get richer and the poor get poorer... that's not just a slogan its the sad state of our reality

[bravenak]

33. He is not articulating it

He is SAYING THINGS

[fontagobay]

36. Hillary Does Not Care

about black people beyond their vote. She is panicked and will say/promise to do anything in order to preserve what she has thus far taken for granted as the black community's support for her dynasty. As a black man I support Bernie because I trust his lifelong commitment to civil rights and the uplift of disenfranchised and oppressed minorities and I understand that his policies(which he has articulated distinctly towards black and minority people) are the best bet we've got.

[CentralMass]

105. He speaks daily. Video of his speeches and rallies are avaiable

You can't hear anything. If you chose not to listen.

[CoffeeCat]

51. OMG!! LOL!

I didn't expect that. There's just nothing like deadpan, spot-on line delivery. That was beautiful.

[Bohemianwriter]

89. Who do you think she'll pick up the call from?

You?

Or her corporate donors?

It's a big club! And neiter you or I are invited to their big club!

So what do you want?

Pandering from someone with a forked tongue?

&index=13&list=WL

[bravenak]

90. Neither

[Bohemianwriter]

91. I bet you this much she will

at least pick up the phone from one of her big donors.

But I am sure she will wag her finger at them and the private prison industry that pushes for laws that targets minority communities.

Enjoy the videos I edited in

[bravenak]

95. She will be telling them to knoc it off!! Geez.

[Bohemianwriter]

99. ...

[uponit7771]

23. Back in the day in the DNC my understanding is some white politicians stayed away from talking

... about issues of black people to keep from making some still racist whites uncomfortable.

Sanders akin back to those days even if its evident he wants to stay focused on economic issues.

Then he associates himself with black politicos well known Obama hater Cornell West who has called Obama "n-word-izzed"

[Ruby the Liberal]

35. I'm confused

Is Bernie racist because he is an old white guy stuck in the "don't talk about it" days, or is he a radical that pals around with the left edge of race relations?

Its early, I may have misunderstood you.

[uponit7771]

44. You're not confused and no one is intimating Sanders is a racist just not genuine on the

... issues of race for the sake of not making the establishment uncomfortable.

[noretreatnosurrender]

2. Thanks for the link

In Harlem, the former Secretary of State showed that she’s just better at talking about race than Sanders.

Can't argue with them there. Hillary has always been good at "talking" and that hasn't changed. After observing her over the years I just think she talks out of both sides of her mouth. She's had a long time to fine tune lines that have been poll tested to appeal to different voters. I'll admit that my candidate is not as smooth as Senator Clinton or her husband. For me Bernie is a diamond in the rough and Hillary is nothing but fools gold. I think a lot of Black voters already know that Hillary is fools gold but they don't yet know that Bernie is a diamond in the rough. They don't yet know that he's an honest man who may not say things just the right way but that his entire career has been devoted to doing the right things when it comes to injustice. He doesn't have a reputation for throwing his supporters under the bus if it will benefit him because he's more interested in the issues than himself. He's a true public servant that hopefully in the short time he has will be able to convince enough voters to join with the rest of us in taking back our government. It will never happen with Senator Clinton because she doesn't want to rock the boat because she's too afraid of getting wet. Anyway that's just my POV.

[JRLeft]

3. The first time Hillary helps black people will be the first time.

[bravenak]

6. I love you you crack me up

[JRLeft]

11. I've said it before and I will say it again, the only people who will help us is us.

[bravenak]

13. I agree

[Carolina]

37. Exactly

what has HRC done?

Back in the 1990s, we supported Bill big time because he was the man from Hope who would end the Reagan-Bush reign of wrong. We sympathized with him because the unfathomable GOP hatred of him paralleled the hatred of racism we'd experienced. We loved that he peopled his cabinet with folk like Ron Brown, Alexis Herman, etc. and we gave him props for knowing the words to the Negro National Anthem (Lift Every Voice).

But in retrospect, it was window dressing. Some of his policies (welfare reform, three strikes) hurt black people more, while others (overturning Glass-Steagall) hurt everyone.

Then there was the blatant racism of HRC's 2008 primary campaign right here in SC... something I'll never forget but about which so many are amnestic or willfully blind. The Clintons use black people, but otherwise don't give a rip

[JRLeft]

43. Agreed, there will be a lot of us who will fall in line though.

[frylock]

92. I think you meant to say that the next time Hillary helps black people...

[JRLeft]

106. No I meant what I said, she's never done shit for us.

[frylock]

108. Exactly, as in the next time will be the first time.

We both know that there will be no next, first, or anytime with Hillary.

[JRLeft]

109. LMFAO, agreed.

[Beacool]

7. Yep, same old speech.

"Sanders made the cursory nod to the Civil Rights movement here in this deeply Southern city. But he largely stuck to his standard fare: Wall Street and super PACs are bad, corporate greed is evil and a populist revolution is afoot."

[bravenak]

9. It never changes

[noretreatnosurrender]

10. An Authentic One

At least he's consistent. And by the way Wall Street and Super PAC's ARE bad, corporate greed IS evil and there is no question that a populist revolution is afoot. Are enough people participating in that revolution in order to win this election? Not yet, but stay tuned. This is what campaigns are all about. Get out your ideas and let the people decide. The Sanders campaign has been an uphill climb from the start. It is absolutely amazing how far it has progressed in such a short period of time. Don't count us out just yet.

[uponit7771]

24. Consistent would be to keep Cornell West at his hip like he did in IA... now West is persona non ..

... whatever

[Octafish]

8. TIME slandered Bernie just the other day.

Something about a photo from UChicago.

[Jester Messiah]

12. The same Time magazine that ran Capehart's little boondoggle?

I hope you'll understand if I don't find them exactly credible. They don't have what you'd call "journalistic integrity" or "ethics" or "any pretense of a moral compass."

[bravenak]

14. Oh whatever

All these puritans

[frylock]

93. Puritans for accuracy in reporting..

How AWFUL!

[bravenak]

94. On everything but what I care about

Become moderate on my pet issues

[frylock]

98. We've established that you're all about you.

[bravenak]

101. I better be

Nobody gon help me but me, I aint dumb enough to think they will and grateful if they do.

[frylock]

102. It's you against the world.

[bravenak]

103. Like Tupac said

[frylock]

104. He sure did..

I wonder which candidate he would be endorsing.

[uponit7771]

25. Yeah, they screwed up there... not in this article though... facts matter

[mhatrw]

17. Sanders is gaining fast on Clinton with black voters in South Carolina.

So it must be Bruce Rappaport who is doing poorly with them! Right, Sam Frizell?

[bravenak]

18. At this rate he'll catch up by June

[uponit7771]

26. He'll catch up around November

[Number23]

19. "Racism is wrong. Sexism is wrong. Phobia is wrong.”

[bravenak]

20. It feels like it's missing something.

The thread about us faking racism? Oh my

[Number23]

21. I wouldn't waste a second of time on that person. It's a shame what folks will do to fit in

You just shake your head and keep right on keeping on.

[bravenak]

22. That was my sad ass thought

What folks will do. Damn.

[Number23]

50. We'll let the all important recs on those posts speak for themselves

And the Freudian slip from that person's OP was probably the most astonishing thing. There is not one mention of the words "Sanders" or "Sanders supporter" in DSB's OP so this contention that the racism here is not only "made up" but that's it's being made up to slime Sanders supporters shows a level of incoherence and denial that is just... something.

That whole thing is a big assed, cringe inducing mess.

[bravenak]

54. You ever start feeling sorry for somebody, then you tell yourself

That they aint worth even thinking about? That's how i feel about like 95 percent of the people here.

[frylock]

97. word up

[Gothmog]

30. There are good reasons why Sanders is not appealing to African American and other voters

There are good reasons why the demographics are not working for Sanders and why many voters including some African American voters are not supporting Sanders. Demographics are important in that this explains one of the big divides between Sanders supporters and Clinton supporters. There is a vast difference in how Sanders supporters and Sanders view President Obama and how other Democrats view President Obama. I admit that I am impressed with the amount accomplished by President Obama in face of the stiff GOP opposition to every one of his proposals and I personally believe that President Obama has been a great President. It seems that this view colors who I am supporting in the primary http://www.huffingtonpost.com/entry/clinton-sanders-obama_us_56aa378de4b05e4e3703753a?utm_hp_ref=politics

But lurking behind this argument about the future is a dispute that's really about the past. It’s a debate over what Obama accomplished in office -- in particular, how significant those accomplishments really are. And it's been simmering on the left for most of the last seven years.

On one side of this divide are activists and intellectuals who are ambivalent, disappointed or flat-out frustrated with what Obama has gotten done. They acknowledge what they consider modest achievements -- like helping some of the uninsured and preventing the Great Recession from becoming another Great Depression. But they are convinced that the president could have accomplished much more if only he’d fought harder for his agenda and been less quick to compromise.

They dwell on the opportunities missed, like the lack of a public option in health care reform or the failure to break up the big banks. They want those things now -- and more. In Sanders, they are hearing a candidate who thinks the same way.

On the other side are partisans and thinkers who consider Obama's achievements substantial, even historic. They acknowledge that his victories were partial and his legislation flawed. This group recognizes that there are still millions of people struggling to find good jobs or pay their medical bills, and that the planet is still on a path to catastrophically high temperatures. But they see in the last seven years major advances in the liberal crusade to bolster economic security for the poor and middle class. They think the progress on climate change is real, and likely to beget more in the future.

It seems that many of the Sanders supporters hold a different view of President Obama which is also a leading reason why Sanders is not exciting African American voters. Again, it may be difficult for Sanders to appeal to African American voters when one of the premises of his campaign is that Sanders does not think that President Obama is a progressive or a good POTUS.

Again, I am not ashamed to admit that I like President Obama and think that he has accomplished a great deal which is why I do not mind Hillary Clinton promising to continue President Obama's legacy. There are valid reasons why many non-African American democrats (myself included) and many African American Democratic voters are not supporting Sanders.

I understand why Sanders supporters dislike talking about demographics but the fact remain that Sanders supporters tend to not like President Obama and that dislike affects the amount of support that Sanders is getting from certain demographic groups.

[bravenak]

34. Yep!!!!!!

[1StrongBlackMan]

113. If you haven't already ...

Please post this as it's own OP ... and please,do so EVERYDAY, because the analysis, and commentary, is solid.

[LexVegas]

38. Big Banks! Wall Street! nt

[bravenak]

64. Refrain

The same same refrain

[Vinca]

39. South Carolina has a short memory.

In 2008 Bill Clinton called Barack Obama a "fairy tale" candidate. I don't think he was referring to the rags-to-riches back story.

[uponit7771]

46. Obama forgave them so do I

[Nuclear Unicorn]

40. Is it supposed to be "racism"? It feels like it's supposed to be "racism."

[bravenak]

58. No

[TheBluestEye]

42. More of the media spinning this for Hillary...

Why don't more media outlets report that Bernie has a tighter ground game in South Carolina than Hillary? I read somewhere (I can't recall where) that Hillary only has 2 offices open in SC and that Bernie has 280 workers hitting the ground. Also, 80% of Bernie's workers in SC are African-American.

[uponit7771]

45. lofl... love the Cat Williams gif!!!

[bravenak]

56. Me too! It's how i feel here

[uponit7771]

66. EXACTLY!!! Can I use it! I've never used one of those before... lol

[bravenak]

68. Oh yes, please!

Use it!

[basselope]

47. He's not.

The gap keeps getting smaller and smaller as the name recognition issue goes away.

[bravenak]

59. Yes he is

[basselope]

69. Not according to your OP and the numbers in the link.

He's made significant ground and each poll shows it getting closer and closer.

[bravenak]

72. Struggling is struggling

Progress does not imply there is no struggle

[JimDandy]

84. All the ground that Bernie is steadily gaining with Blacks, Clinton is losing.

I'll take Bernie's 'struggle' over Clinton's any day.

[bravenak]

87. Ok

[basselope]

110. Not really.

Progress implies there is not much of a struggle.

[lunamagica]

48. K&R.

[EndElectoral]

49. Additional reporting by Sam Frizzell? That was the guy who did the hit piece on the U of Chic. photo

[bravenak]

57. It was a ridiculous thing to even be stressed over

I know I knew Bernie was there photo or no photo.
I believed him.
Once he said it was himself it was a non issue. Bruce is dead.

[wildeyed]

80. I more or less sat that one out too.

Couldn't figure out what we were arguing about.

[bravenak]

82. I think i was just like who cares who it is.

They were both there and looked alike. Both spoke at the podium. Like, who cares? It was weird. Next time, I'll sit it out too

[frylock]

96. Someone cared, thus the coordinated effort to claim it wasn't Bernie.

[bravenak]

100. No need to take the bait. It was to drag the focus away from bussiness

To get folks to look over there!!! He says its not bernie!!! Stop working on the campaign stuff right now! Dont focus on voters, focus on whats his butt from msnbc or whatever. Funny how I never liked or nor liked him before that and still feel pretty neutral.

[Ron Green]

52. 2016 is a big test for America, and we may yet fail it.

Right now there seems to be real momentum for a new political economy, but the forces that have gripped us for decades will not easily relinquish control.

[bravenak]

74. Just another election

This nation moves slowly. It was designed as such

[Ron Green]

75. That design must end, or we will.

This is a chance to do it. As I said above, we may fail. But it's worth a try.

[bravenak]

76. Would need to rewrite the constitution

It's baked in

[Ron Green]

77. Nah - it can change. I just don't think it likely will.

People are asleep.

[bravenak]

78. Will stay asleep until the world is burning too

It takes a disaster for people to change govt. Or an actual revolution with violence. Rarely does it happen painlessly.
I say in about 20-30 years

[Ron Green]

79. We'll be at 2 degrees Celsius by then. I'll be gone, but

most of y'all can do something about it then. Good luck.

[bravenak]

81. I'm taking cyanide if it gets that hot

[Ron Green]

83. I could use one of your cyanide pills if the 9.0 shake comes to my town.

[bravenak]

86. We get them bad up here to, its crazy

[monicaangela]

53. Bernie Sanders is not

stupid. He knows how racist this country is. He knows that the best way to end his campaign is to start preferring one group over another, as he says, the right programs in this nation without bias according to race, creed, color or sexual preference will be a tide that lifts all boats. He is not a candidate that will stand before a group and pander to that group to get their votes and I appreciate that.

[bravenak]

55. It is up to him to articulate it

I no longer take what his supporters say as coming from him. He speaks for himself and can and must articulate it properly. If he continues to shift the discussion to poverty everytime we ask about racism, he will be viewed as not having a comprehensive understanding. Of trying to solve racism by fixing poverty, they are linked but not the exact same thing. The poverty comes from racism, he seems to view it as the other way around. If he can stop with resorting to his stump speech when asked these questions, he will do better. One cannot have a one track mind

[monicaangela]

60. I agree

I believe with supporters like Harry Belafonte, Nina Turner, and Killer Mike to help him with the narrative so that he can deliver it in the manner in which you seem to want to hear him deliver it he will do so. I don't believe he doesn't deliver this message because he does not know what racism is and how it permeates this nation like a bad weed infiltrates a garden, I believe it can be a bit overwhelming to convey that in a stump speech. Even if he does convey the message you want him to convey, he is only going to give ammunition to his republican rivals. This is a tricky game, politics aren't easy. I believe Bernie Sanders will do a much better job of healing the wounds that have been caused by racism than his opponents will.

[bravenak]

61. To heal it needs to be taken head on a discussed thoroughly

I think it's a lie that we cannot fix racism. I think we have never even tried, we just make excuses as to why it cannot be done and allow the suffering to continue unabated. The only candidate running who actually seems to get the entirety of it is Jill Stein. Then Hillary. Then Bernie. Why?
His focus is on european style socialism, nations that do not have the histiry of color based slavery, jim crow and refusal to accept that wrongs need to be righted. And they are much more homogenous than we are, so, they have fewer people fighting against giving 'those people' benefits. As you can see from the influx of immigrants to those nations, the people are staring to grumble at giving 'those people' benefits. I predict that as more come in and the european nations become more hetrogeneous, they will cut the welfare state.because of 'those people'.
They also have racial disparities in pay and housing and treatment. They lack the history of Jim crow and black slave trade system internally in their home nations.

Therefore, the plans he has have flaws that he either cannot or will not address. He needs to.

[monicaangela]

62. He is not going to end racism, a system that has been

a part of this nation since inception. He knows what racism is, he knows what inequality is, he has tried to express a method of curtailing racism by as you say utilizing a model that may not be the best for this situation. As I said, he is surrounded by many who know exactly what you have expressed and I'm sure they have his ear. As for Hillary and Jill Stein, I believe either one of them or both of them have their idea of what racism is economically and socially, but I don't believe you can truly understand the effects of racism if you haven't had the action directed at you. President Obama would have appeared to have been the perfect person to aide in helping to bring the country together and in the beginning he tried. He was literally crucified for trying to intervene in the Louis Gates case. He gave beautiful speeches that went absolutely nowhere, fell on deaf ears so to speak. I don't believe a speech is ever going to end racism or convince someone to vote for you. Policies that promote justice and equality are what will succeed and that is what Bernie Sanders is talking about.

[bravenak]

63. His policies are generic and missing the affirmative action necessary for closing the gap. Period.

[monicaangela]

65. Your opinion

Mine is that Hillary Clintons are more ineffective so I guess we are back to square one Period

[bravenak]

67. Not an opinion

He says himself they are 'for all people', never accounts for the disparities in the program. Just says what he wants but no plan on how to close the gap sides rhetoric. This is not about Hillary. He can stand on his own without using her to bolster his position. Or not because it seems as if no one can discuss Bernie without tossing 'hillary is worse!' in there. They are neither one left enough for ME. It is settling regardless.

[monicaangela]

70. Okay, you win...

[basselope]

71. Except for the fact that he has discussed institutionalized racism many times.

https://berniesanders.com/issues/racial-justice/

"But what King saw in 1968 — and what we all should recognize today — is that it is necessary to try to address the rampant economic inequality while also taking on the issue of societal racism. We must simultaneously address the structural and institutional racism which exists in this country, while at the same time we vigorously attack the grotesque level of income and wealth inequality which is making the very rich much richer while everyone else — especially those in our minority communities – are becoming poorer"

[bravenak]

73. That has nothing to do with my point

That is not sufficient for ME

[basselope]

111. It's exactly your point.

And given your post history, it doesn't seem there is ANYTHING that would be sufficient for you personally, because your mind has been made up on this issue.

To you Sanders message does nothing to address racial inequality and Clinton has been some type of champion on this issue for years. The fact that neither of those is true doesn't matter to you very much.

[Arazi]

112. Bravenak has already said she'll never vote for Sanders

shes deeply angry at Bernie supporters and has vowed to troll them.

(Yes mods and alerters, there's proof in the Bernie Sanders group)

[iwannaknow]

85. Bernie has been there for POC all along

Just takes time for more people to get to know him

[bravenak]

88. List the pro POC legislation he has written please?

[Perogie]

107. Does this person speak for all Blacks?

Was there a vote to make this person a spokesperson for all black people or just the ones that want to support HRC?