2016 Postmortem
Related: About this forumA Hillary primary win will likely KILL DU off.
As some people are saying, who would want to stick around here for a Hillary GE campaign? Even if we feel compelled to vote for her against Trump or Cruz, what will be the point of sticking around here?
Isn't support for Bernie here about 80 percent?
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Paulie
(8,464 posts)Question for me will we have another purge. We do have changed to the jury system in the works that will go in after the primaries are over.
Can the enthusiasm be channeled or will it be like the ham sandwich votes in 2004 again.
Lots of questions. This time there is Discussionist to fall back on, for both users and admins alike. 
Rod Beauvex
(564 posts)Why not before?
JonLeibowitz
(6,282 posts)JTFrog
(14,274 posts)JonLeibowitz
(6,282 posts)
lovemydog
(11,833 posts)If you look at the Terms of Service here, that will provide more clarity.
JonLeibowitz
(6,282 posts)I.e. if you simply stop posting when a nominee is decided you will be safe.
lovemydog
(11,833 posts)I'm not sure how it all works exactly. Administrators have said they're considering some changes after the primaries but haven't revealed what they are.
Rocky the Leprechaun
(222 posts)I'd like to read what changes they are considering.
RKP5637
(67,112 posts)lovemydog
(11,833 posts)If you browse a bit there you'll find it. I don't think specifics were mentioned.
Jim Lane
(11,175 posts)Post about downticket races, or about really stupid things the Republican presidential nominee says, or about nonpolitical topics. (We have specialized groups for quite a few such pursuits.) Just don't post anything that could be construed as inciting people to do anything other than vote for the Democratic nominee.
JonLeibowitz
(6,282 posts)Or is that too close to the line, and I should wait until after the general election?
Jim Lane
(11,175 posts)For starters, your current sig line could get you in trouble once the nominee is clear (and clarity is in the eyes of the admins). To my mind, it strongly suggests voting third party if Clinton is the nominee. In fact, you might want to consider changing it now.
For the rest, I think most forms of activism would be OK. You could strongly support a progressive Dem in a downticket race. I think you could even say something like "The Democratic Party should make Medicare For All an official party goal." Even if it's in the midst of a general-election campaign in which our nominee opposes (or dismisses) that goal, touting the goal isn't the same as opposing the nominee. Many of us who agree with that position on health care policy would nevertheless vote for Clinton in the general election if she were the nominee. (There's the "clothespin on nose" faction and the "fortify with alcohol" faction. You could probably engage in that debate with safety.)
One thing you should bear in mind is that the admins have been pretty quick on the trigger (IMO) in enforcing this rule. Long-time posters with five-figure post counts, who've contributed enormously to the discussions at DU, have been tombstoned when a single post was deemed a violation. If I were running the site, there would be at least a warning under such circumstances, but I'm not running the site. Given this one-strike policy, it's probably best to err on the side of caution. Anytime you're tempted to post anything that might be perceived as promoting a third-party vote, take it over to Discussionist or Jackpine Radicals.
JonLeibowitz
(6,282 posts)I changed my sig line to be less objectionable.
I'll keep the rest in mind, and should the wrong candidate win, I may find myself on JPR more.
enigmatic
(15,021 posts)Many LGBT and their allies were purged from DU by the admins for speaking up in how they were treated. One was purged for posting the number 7, which at that time was how many were banned by the admins.
Many, many posts from that time are in the DU archives.
The darkest time for DU in it's history, IMO.
InAbLuEsTaTe
(25,518 posts)
TheFarseer
(9,769 posts)Those folks were a couple years ahead of their time. Dems were sick of losing because the repubs would put some sort of gay marriage thing on the ballot to get out the vote. But that wasn't the lgbt communities fault. Now it's almost reversed 10 yrs later. That kind of thing on the ballot might get out the vote for us.
ChiciB1
(15,435 posts)JonLeibowitz
(6,282 posts)
Fearless
(18,458 posts)And will be gone, just like every time.
litlbilly
(2,227 posts)like to do like living
PonyUp
(1,680 posts)Politicalboi
(15,189 posts)I'll vote for Hillary to avoid the disaster of the GOP. I won't be so anxious to come here to post, but I'll lurk and follow the polls and stories.
gyroscope
(1,443 posts)I will support the legitimate nominee (who wins it legitimately without SD funny business, and without election fraud).
daleanime
(17,796 posts)DU's death would be hardly noticeable.
cui bono
(19,926 posts)
SammyWinstonJack
(44,316 posts)
MADem
(135,425 posts)The people who came here for one purpose, and one purpose only, will leave, as they do, only to return in two years to fling shit during the midterms.
still_one
(98,883 posts)brooklynite
(96,882 posts)No House and Senate races?
No policy issues?
Bernie or nothing?
Perhaps that's part of the problem.
MADem
(135,425 posts)According to some of our new friends, I think that IS the case!!
Andy823
(11,555 posts)It's the my way or the highway attitude and that just doesn't work in the real world. Even Bernie knows that. He has already said he will support Hillary if she is the nominee, and do everything he can to make sure the republicans don't take back the WH. He knows just how bad that would be for this country. You would thing those who admire him so much would follow his example. 
thesquanderer
(13,002 posts)I have this fear that, on the odd chance that Bernie actually gets the nomination, Hillary could run as Bloomberg's VP. God knows what THAT would do to DU... to say nothing of the country!
NanceGreggs
(27,835 posts)
jhart3333
(332 posts)NanceGreggs
(27,835 posts)... that don't make any sense. I'm pretty sure DU has a forum for that kind of thing.
GoneFishin
(5,217 posts)It doesn't have to make sense. They did it. It's real. It's a fact.
oberliner
(58,724 posts)A Boost for Lamont as Democratic Leaders Shift Support
Lamont's upset of the three-term senator and former Democratic vice presidential nominee, who is now running to keep his seat as an independent, has forced a hasty reordering of political alliances, as prominent Democratic leaders and organizations shift their support to Lamont.
http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2006/08/11/AR2006081101528.html
Among those who officially endorsed Lamont was Hillary Clinton (also Barack Obama, Harry Reid, Chuck Schumer, Joe Biden..)
GoneFishin
(5,217 posts)brooklynite
(96,882 posts)
FSogol
(47,616 posts)
passiveporcupine
(8,175 posts)I know there is a strong contingency that claims they won't, but I bet a lot of them will in the end, if it means stopping a GOP win. Especially if they are in a swing state. If not, their votes (or lack of) probably won't make a difference.
I can handle a Hillary in the White house if it comes to that, and if we hold her feet to the fire on her many many campaign promises she's evolved to recently. Although I'm afraid a Hillary win will kill the grass movement that has started under Bernie to hold the government to account for the people. You have to feel you can trust the leader to have your back, to want to fight for them.
I don't know if I can handle a GOP win to a crazy like any of the favorites now.
still_one
(98,883 posts)Andy823
(11,555 posts)The country could not handle a GOP win. A republican would take apart everything we have gained since president Obama took office. They would be putting more right wing nuts on the Supreme Court, they would take away a woman's right to choose, they would give huge tax breaks to the wealthy, they would end Obama care and not replace it with anything that would help those in need, and the list goes on and on.
I agree that the majority of those here on DU who support Bernie would vote for Hillary to make sure republicans wouldn't be able undo everything we now have. Those who keep pushing the "both parities are the same" so why vote, or try and convince others to stay home, or write in Bernie's name have a whole different agenda than getting a democrat in the WH. It seems they would not have a problem with any of the GOP clown car wining.
passiveporcupine
(8,175 posts)I've seen a lot of people saying they won't vote for Hillary, but also have never said they are OK with a GOP win. I think they just assume that dems will win this year, no matter what, because the Gop clown car is so crazy they can't win.
I hope they are right, if that's the way they really feel. I'm too scared of a GOP win to make a political statement with my vote, knowing that it's pretty much not going to do a thing other than weaken the dem's chances in the final contest.
Kelvin Mace
(17,469 posts)of self-identified Dems won't vote for her if she is the nominee. So, if we assume that only a quarter of that number are hard core, not going to vote for Kissinger's friend (such as myself), that means she loses 3.5% of the Dem vote.
So, I hope those folks at Goldman-Sachs and all those superdelegates can make up the difference.
Nedsdag
(2,437 posts)She'll in spite of the GOP craziness, but won't bring in enough Democrats at the grass roots level to do anything of purpose.
There will still be a GOP congress due to gerrymandering. Nothing will get done.
JRLeft
(7,010 posts)a great day for Wall Street and the TPP. Not to mention frackers, defense contractors, Private Prisons, etc.
lovemydog
(11,833 posts)Indeed.
uponit7771
(93,532 posts)Cal33
(7,018 posts)more Democratic Progressives elected to both House of Congress during the first few years of
his presidency. It's one of the best ways to get his agenda achieved in the years following.
.
Fawke Em
(11,366 posts)In order to not break the TOS, I plan to drop off voluntarily if she's the nominee.
It will probably become an echo chamber and that big bubble will work to her disadvantage. Hell, even with Sanders supporters around here, many of her fans can't see her obvious right-tilt in foreign and economic policies as it is.
Joe the Revelator
(14,915 posts)...taking my ball and going home. But as you said, there is no way to stay true to myself and also abide the TOS for this great site. I'd rather drop off for a few years and keep powder dry for the midterms.
dana_b
(11,546 posts)I may check in from time to time on few of the other forums that I like but I too do not want to break the TOS so I wold definitely stay out of the big forums. I respect what the admins have done here and they have a lot of patience with us. Their site, their rules.
peacebird
(14,195 posts)
RiverLover
(7,830 posts)mythology
(9,527 posts)It's kind of funny that you don't see that.
Fawke Em
(11,366 posts)Just looking at the front page of GD-P should cure you of that notion.
Heck, there are three posters who do NOTHING but create anti-Bernie talking points all day long and post at least 20 threads each throughout the day.
Funny you don't see that.
Kelvin Mace
(17,469 posts)what will happen when some of the people who know in their heart of hearts what kind of person HRC is start arguing with the True Believers™ who will brook NO criticism of any sort of their candidate.
That's when the long knives will come out.
Kelvin Mace
(17,469 posts)"I told you so" would get me banned when the GOP springs the real dirt on her that they are holding in reserve and she loses. Plus any of us still around will be blamed for the loss. Anyone but themselves and the candidate.
So, I will just be here to read.
Vote2016
(1,198 posts)
Kelvin Mace
(17,469 posts)Cuomo-Emmanuel ticket.
dburner3
(8 posts)Great point Brooklynite
Lucinda
(31,170 posts)I'm sure they'll be back once she's the nominee.
oasis
(53,666 posts)Just in time to set up shop and tackle the GOP.
leftofcool
(19,460 posts)Response to grasswire (Original post)
Post removed
dchill
(42,660 posts)Bark when you say that.
JimDandy
(7,318 posts)Transparency is up...
Jester Messiah
(4,711 posts)
LuvLoogie
(8,809 posts)think
(11,641 posts)LuvLoogie
(8,809 posts)And we will drink the souls of the woe begotten.
That sound about right?
think
(11,641 posts)LuvLoogie
(8,809 posts)They'll get the comfy chairs while we hang out in the kitchen with the unions and civil rights icons and Planned Parenthood and Barack Obama and...
Odin2005
(53,521 posts)Which is sad given that I have read this site since 2002, almost half my entire life, and have been a member for over 10 years.
wilsonbooks
(972 posts)“No army can stop an idea whose time has come” ― Victor Hugo, Les Misérable
Pauldg47
(644 posts)
jeff47
(26,549 posts)And considering how trigger-happy the admins have already been towards Sanders supporters, it will not be pretty if it stays here.
Arazi
(8,887 posts)Im temporarily laid up so I'm here more than usual.
In 4 weeks I should be cleared to go back to light duty. I'll need to dial back chat room time and DU will be my 1st to go.
Primaries are fun
GE's, not so much
Andy823
(11,555 posts)I have heard all kinds "if Bernie doesn't win" it's all over comments, but this is the first one hinting that DU will "vanish" without the Bernie supporters.
Thing is that any "real" supporters who are progressives, liberals, or Democrats, will be doing the right thing and backing Hillary. Even Bernie has said that's what he will do because he knows how bad it would be with a republican back the the WH. So you see that the only ones who will leave are the right wing trolls, and some of the old anti Obama crowd who have burned to many bridges to stay around, and who have their own board now with their fearless leader Manny, who was banned from DU. They all hated DU anyway, and the only reason they are still here is so they can come here daily and bash Hillary. You would think since they claim the new site is all about getting Bernie elected, they would be doing all the can to met that goal instead of spending all day here repeating the same trash and bash threads the GOP has been spreading for years, day in and day out.
NanceGreggs
(27,835 posts)
passiveporcupine
(8,175 posts)This thread is really kinda sad.
mcar
(46,048 posts)
Spazito
(55,452 posts)steve2470
(37,481 posts)Le Taz Hot
(22,271 posts)there's the Congress, the Senate and state house races.
Mz Pip
(28,449 posts)I've been hear since 2001. Primaries are contentious. Remember Howard Dean? It will calm down.
I do hope whoever wins the primary will get everyone's support. The thought of a President Trump or Cruz or Rubio is too awful to imagine.
Remember, whoever wins the presidency will likely appoint another 3 Supreme Court Justices.
Who could possibly want 3 Roy Moores deciding issues of climate change, choice or voting rights.
There's too much at stake to sit this one out if your man/woman doesn't get the nomination.
kerry-is-my-prez
(10,267 posts)......Party and is more into the Green Party or roots against the Dem candidate they would probably not be happy here. We have always ended supporting the dem candidate here.
pinebox
(5,761 posts)just like how there is a "Socialist Progressives" subforum http://www.democraticunderground.com/?com=forum&id=1024
Le Taz Hot
(22,271 posts)and I'm more into the "Underground" part of DU and I'm perfectly happy here.
onehandle
(51,122 posts)NoJacketRequired
(21 posts)That's their decision to make. Most of his supporters are ideologues, not Democrats.
It's obvious they would rather watch it all burn with President Trump or President Cruz at the helm if their candidate who is promising flying unicorns for everyone isn't nominated by the DEMOCRATIC Party.
earthshine
(1,642 posts)Hillary supporters love to complain about the uncivil nature of Bernie's backers.
But, just listen to you. Not only do you sound foolish, you seem mean spirited.
And will you vote for Bernie in the general election if he is the nominee? Choose your answer wisely. You could get president Trump.
In the 1990s, Bill Clinton and the moneyed interests hijacked the Democratic Party with their third way.
Bernie supporters are people who want their party back.
RiverLover
(7,830 posts)After Clinton1 hijacked the party, and took the country down the road of outsourcing American jobs & deregulating Wall Street like a good republican, Americans have suffered.
Now people expect US to rally around Clinton2. Unbelievable.
earthshine
(1,642 posts)I just don't get the rejection of him, except to think that Clinton loyalists have been in her camp for a long time, and they really want it.
I try to be respectful of their points of view. I need to do better, and so do they.
Thanks, River.
tazkcmo
(7,419 posts)Got it all figured out already, huh? Not ypur call but you make it anyway with a complete assumption based on your 10 days of keen observation. I';m a Sen Sanders supporter, do not trust Sec Clinton due to her own actions and statements and would not rather watch "it all burn". Have a nice day and enjoy your second 10 days.
Merryland
(1,134 posts)say that Bernie supporters are ideologues, not Democrats? This kind of gratuitous attack from the Clinton side is exactly why unknown numbers of DEMOCRATS may sit it out, and you're not making it any easier. In fact, it's getting worse.
oasis
(53,666 posts)of persecution by the majority. DU will flourish like old times.
kerry-is-my-prez
(10,267 posts)The Bernie people who can adapt will be here or will eventually come back. My first and second choice have never won the Dem Primary and I always come back and support the Dem even if don't necessarily even like them. They are better than the alternative.
oasis
(53,666 posts)They certainly won't be missed.
Democratic Underground.
Fuddnik
(8,846 posts)I've never voted for a republican in my life. McGovern was my first vote.
oasis
(53,666 posts)by responding before reading. 
grasswire
(50,130 posts)I voted for Bill Clinton twice. I voted for Obama twice. But I may not vote for Hillary, and am prepared to leave DU if needed.
I spent a lot of time defending the Clintons when they were under attack by Republicans. Now I just want them to get out of the way of reform and renewal.
oasis
(53,666 posts)Many of the Democrats I know support the idea. Unfortunately, not all of them believe Bernie can deliver.
Btw, I remember you from the old days at DU. I wasn't referring to you in my initial post.
earthshine
(1,642 posts)Me, perhaps? I'm another life-long Democrat.
Will you vote for Bernie in the general election if he is the nominee?
oasis
(53,666 posts)merrily
(45,251 posts)oasis
(53,666 posts)"Some" and "sometimes". 
merrily
(45,251 posts)40 people. I don't think any of the posts are referring to two or three posters who oppose Hillary.
I made the right call.
Trajan
(19,089 posts)Voted Jimmy Carter into office during my first national election ...
I don't see Hillary's policies or behavior as 'liberal' ... I don't like her ...
oasis
(53,666 posts)
Jbradshaw120
(80 posts)In 2008. I have only ever voted democratic along with both of my parents and 3 of my 4 grandparents. The way Hillary and Bill are treating sanders supporters is wrong and making it more and more difficult for me to vote for her in the general election if she wins the nomination. To compare me to a tea parties is beyond insulting. Fort her to tear down universal heathcare ( the primary reason I supported her on 2008) is just wrong. She has been misrepresenting Bernie and his record for quit some time now. I'm growing tired of the party essentially saying that liberals aren't welcome and can't win. If that is the case why in the world should i continue to vote, donate, and volunteer for democratic candidates that take me for granted from the top of the ticket to the bottom?
oasis
(53,666 posts)Jbradshaw120
(80 posts)But come on that wasn't entirely fair. What about new voters who are carrying their first ballot should their opinions count for less?
oasis
(53,666 posts)Operatives don't fit any particular profile.
Jbradshaw120
(80 posts)You do think that first time voters opinions sound count for less. Not judging just want to be clear?
oasis
(53,666 posts)Like anyone else.
I got errands to run. Any further replys will have to be later.
Jbradshaw120
(80 posts)Thanks for the clarification. I was hoping I was reading that wrong and I was.
Pauldg47
(644 posts)
question everything
(52,105 posts)but, I suppose, the juvenile supporters of Sanders will just take their balls and go home.
passiveporcupine
(8,175 posts)
earthshine
(1,642 posts)Will you vote for Bernie if he is the nominee?
Cosmocat
(15,418 posts)And the overwhelming majority of bernie supporters here are uncivil bullies.
Its far worse than 08.
earthshine
(1,642 posts)I've seen so much nasty sh*t, and foul sexually-oriented language thrown at Hillary, in a way that only men can do.
But this last week, some of our well-known Hillary supporters here have also completely missed the exit ramp to the high road.
I'm trying to do better, myself.
If the mutual vitriol does not stop between the B & H supporters, we're looking at President Trump, or even worse, Cruz or Rubio.
At least Trump likes to punch the GOP in the face. If he wasn't so overtly racist, I could even like him a little.
Thanks.
mhatrw
(10,786 posts)Last edited Thu Feb 18, 2016, 03:22 PM - Edit history (1)
DemocraticWing
(1,290 posts)Spitfire of ATJ
(32,723 posts)Hillary still has TONS of time to implode.
..........again.......
Fumesucker
(45,851 posts)I was posting less and less, reading less and less.
There won't be anything to keep me here if Hillary wins, we've been fighting right wing arguments inside DU since Jan 20, 2009 starting with "it's only one prayer" and I'm honestly just tired of it.
If I want to hear right wing arguments constantly I can talk to my neighbors, I don't need DU for that.
enigmatic
(15,021 posts)Remember when it was the LGBT's fault that Kerry lost in 2004? That's when the beginning of the end was, IMO.
Fumesucker
(45,851 posts)This is the first time since I've been on DU that I've had a really strong primary preference, I suppose that makes me notice the right wing arguments more...
enigmatic
(15,021 posts)Bernie Sanders has been the first candidate I've felt strongly about supporting since Jesse Jackson in 2008; the rest have been varying stages of voting for the lesser of 2 evils policy-wise.
That's why I will feel terrible for the youth if the DNC machine manages to rig the game for Hillary, but nI have hope that the movement that Bernie is advancing will live on. I know Bernie will do everything in his power to make it happen.
I'm glad I don't have skin in the US political game anymore; too depressing to think about if Hillary wins the nomination.
Fumesucker
(45,851 posts)They will then feel with some justification that Bernie is just another politician and won't bother engaging further.
And you can bet large portions of your anatomy that Hillary will do anything and everything possible to crush any left populist feelings should she by some miracle win the Presidency.
earthshine
(1,642 posts)It would be awful if Bernie concedes and we don't support the Democratic nominee.
I will never feel that Bernie is just another politician.
If you asked me two years ago whom I'd like to see run for president, my first choice -- out of a vast horizon of choices -- would have been Bernie Sanders.
Fumesucker
(45,851 posts)The establishment is frantic to tamp down any left-populist trends and they will go to some rather extreme lengths to do so. I don't really think it's some grand conspiracy more than it is individuals in the top few percent of the income range making individual decisions to protect their own lofty positions in the hierarchy.
He may manage to frame the argument in a way that is persuasive to millennials and olds such as myself who are not that thrilled with the current system.
Let us hope it doesn't come to that.
earthshine
(1,642 posts)I'm a bit concerned about in accurate vote counting leading to election theft. The Clintons and their machine are much closer to the innards of that ballot box than Bernie.
Yes. Not a grand conspiracy. Some epiphenomenon (systemic effect) of the 1% and the Bilderbergs, and their pet corporations, trying to rape and reap the planet as long as they can.
Thanks.
Merryland
(1,134 posts)TransitJohn
(6,937 posts) 
Agnosticsherbet
(11,619 posts)When we are not involved in ripping each other to shreds because we differ in the candidate we support, it's not a bad place.
retrowire
(10,345 posts)JackpineRadicals...
We'll figure out a way to actually help the left win back the government as a whole there.
ChiciB1
(15,435 posts)
restorefreedom
(12,655 posts)JonLeibowitz
(6,282 posts) NanceGreggs
(27,835 posts)I take it some BSers are finally realizing that HRC will be the nominee. And they're getting nervous that if the TOS rule about not bashing the nominee kicks-in, they won't be able to post anti-HRC/anti-Dem shit 24/7, day-in and day-out.
So the first line of attack is to let Skinner know that if he does enforce that rule, the BSers will leave. As you said, "what will be the point of sticking around here for a Hillary GE campaign".
What point indeed.
Bringing up the Bernie support here being "about 80 percent" is a nice touch - reminding Skinner just how many of you there are, and how it would impact DU if you all left.
Actually, I believe the number is 85% - although it's probably higher now given the HRC supporters who are leaving, and the newbie BSers who are joining.
So it will be interesting to see which way Skinner goes on this. Will he cave to the threats of the BSers, or stand up for his own Terms of Service?
I think we'll know the answer pretty soon.
Flying Squirrel
(3,041 posts)I don't think we're gonna know anything "pretty soon." And if Hillary becomes the nominee, DU will be the least of anyone's problems. I don't know of any Bernie supporters on DU "finally realizing" that she will be the nominee, with Bernie ahead in pledged delegates and tied in Nevada with two weeks still to go before a Super Tuesday after which 3,030 delegates will still be up for grabs. The OP is merely speculating "what if." But if that narrative works for you, hey, whatever. You make it harder and harder not to press the ignore button.
NanceGreggs
(27,835 posts)... how BSers would have no reason to "stick around DU" if Hillary is declared the nominee.
Why would the OP be threatening the possibility of BSers leaving DU - "Isn't support for Bernie here about 80 percent?" - if she were confident that Bernie will be the nominee?
If you pay any attention to the polls - and I think most people here do - you know that Hillary has a commanding lead in most of the upcoming primary states. It is what it is.
Whether Skinner decides to enforce his own TOS when HRC is declared the nominee will be interesting, to say the least.
Flying Squirrel
(3,041 posts)They're woefully inadequate in many Super Tuesday states... The most recent CO poll is December, MN and many others are outdated. However, I'm willing to make a forecast based on the trend which is clearly in favor of Bernie. I'll give him a 2-1 split in undecideds, and make up for a few extra points in states with outdated polls, and give my predictions (in pledged delegate totals):
Current - Bernie 36, Hillary 32
NV: 18-17
SC: 22-31
AL: 20-33
A.S.: 2-4
AR: 11-21
CO: 33-33
GA: 35-67
MA: 50-41
MN: 37-40
OK: 19-19
TN: 29-38
TX: 100-122
VT: 14-2
VA: 45-50
Total: 471-550
So, if I'm anywhere near close, Bernie will have taken 46% of pledged delegates to 54% for Hillary by Super Tuesday.
There will still be 3,030 PD's left to win after that. For a simple majority, Berrnie would need 1,555 more, which is 51.3%. We'll leave Superdelegates out for the moment since there's no consensus on whether they would be willing to risk overturning the popular vote. Given the polling trends which you have no doubt seen showing Bernie gaining, this nomination is eminently winnable by him at this early stage.
bvf
(6,604 posts)NanceGreggs
(27,835 posts)I don't know what it is - but I'm assuming there's a point here somewhere.
bvf
(6,604 posts)If you find it that difficult, you have my sympathies.
earthshine
(1,642 posts)I read things you've written in the past. Long, well-thought-out essays.
But, I find your posts having to do with these primaries to be absolutely vapid, pointless hit pieces.
How can you think this contributes to constructive conversation, or to provide some notion that we are all Democrats that largely share common purpose?
Some may leave, but no one here is nervous that they're going to get kicked out.
BillZBubb
(10,650 posts)You conservaDems whine about how mean everyone is to Hillary, as you call Sanders supporters BS'ers. Classy and mature!
I suppose when you were backing the loser in 2008, you called the winner's backers BO'ers?
Was getting ready to write pretty much the same post, but you beat me to it.
Betty Karlson
(7,231 posts)Besides, camp Clinton's acolytes have been pruging the sitre of some of its best contributors. Manny comes to mind, but he was hardly the only one, nor the first, nor the last.
Katashi_itto
(10,175 posts)Fumesucker
(45,851 posts)There will certainly be some awesome discussions of policy then.
TheFarS1de
(1,017 posts)Does she even have a policy ? Based on current discussion the only thing she seems to think about is Sanders .
VulgarPoet
(2,872 posts)Then yeah, she's got a metric fuckload of it. That, and y'know, Wall Street and military-industrial complex capitulation.
Hydra
(14,459 posts)I can't even imagine what it would look like...10 or so people posting pictures of Clinton with Goldman Sachs reps and the rest of the Fat Cats and fluff posts about how she's going to change the world by sitting in the Oval Office eating cake?
Response to grasswire (Original post)
1000words This message was self-deleted by its author.
McCamy Taylor
(19,240 posts)lovemydog
(11,833 posts)when that occurs.
SleeplessinSoCal
(10,412 posts)And bring on a return to normalcy.
Califonz
(465 posts)even if we nominate a turkey sandwich for president, we will win California's 57 electoral votes.
SHRED
(28,136 posts)I think it's incumbent upon us to keep pushing from the Left.
No surrender.
Kaleva
(40,352 posts)DU is a big place covering a wide variety of topics. As for myself, I only occasionally drop into GD
to see what is going on. This was the only thread that got my attention.
yuiyoshida
(45,403 posts)thanks to this primary season a lot of bad feelings will leave a huge divide for a long, long time. Insults and negative words won't be forgiven for any time soon. The damage has been already done, and people will remember what was said to them, or done to them on here.. and its going to take a very long time to heal.
earthshine
(1,642 posts)Those who have been insulted and attacked are just going to have to get over it.
Although some of us act childish, we are not children, and should not take these attacks so personally.
My guess is it would be typical that the person one is fighting with online could be someone you might like if you met them in person.
Both Hillary and Bernie supporters want a better world. There are just some minor ideological differences.
Peace.
jeff47
(26,549 posts)and thought they made thoughtful posts. They've since demonstrated otherwise.
earthshine
(1,642 posts)People have different reasons for being on DU. Mine right now is insomnia. It's 5:30 in the morning.
I've been here since 2004. This place and Air America were my salvation when Bush was reelected.
As one might say in Brooklynese, I ain't going nowhere -- emphasis on double negative.
EdwardBernays
(3,343 posts)Ugh
joshcryer
(62,536 posts)Only way that happens is if Skinner goes scorched earth and blocks all dissent. If Clinton gets the nod it'll be interesting to see how much support Trump gets and how far it'll go before it gets shut down (the Trump fawning is already beginning).
dana_b
(11,546 posts)I haven't seen that (thankfully). I doubt that most people would go for him. He is the antithesis of what Bernie stands for.
joshcryer
(62,536 posts)My gosh, there was a huge thread yesterday pitting Trumps anti-Iraq crap against Hillary, DUers ate it up (except Trump was against Iraq before he was for it, funny that).
dana_b
(11,546 posts)He's such an ass. I can't believe that anyone falls for his blathering. If his name was in the OP title, I probably blocked it out of my mind. lol..
Admiral Loinpresser
(3,859 posts)
tularetom
(23,664 posts)But there is no way she will be elected president, so after November we can all go back to hating on president Trump, or Cruz, or whoever.
And I don't think we'll have to worry about the Clinton's ever again.
wyldwolf
(43,891 posts)
boston bean
(36,930 posts)they probably never belonged here in the first place.
liberal N proud
(61,194 posts)Makes you wonder, doesn't it.
DefenseLawyer
(11,101 posts)liberal N proud
(61,194 posts)If it is 80% it is because anyone else has literally been driven away.
JustABozoOnThisBus
(24,679 posts)to drown my sorrows in cheap beer. Or craft beer. We'll argue about beer.
Somehow, I think DU will survive. Hillarites will gloat in an end-zone dance, Bernistas will grumble about moving to Canada. Then most will go to the GE polling place, hold their nose, and vote "D".
Life will go on.
Skwmom
(12,685 posts)SidDithers
(44,333 posts)Why wouldn't Democrats continue to post at Democratic Underground?
Sid
VulgarPoet
(2,872 posts)Hell, we've been called everything from Republicans to Tea Partiers by everyone from the most moronic HRC supporter to Clinton's husband himself.
Remind me why we're going to support them again?
dana_b
(11,546 posts)I'm only registered as a Dem in order to vote for him. If he loses, there are other places to go to.
bigtree
(94,243 posts)...always suspected the Democratic association was just for convenience.
dana_b
(11,546 posts)
el_bryanto
(11,804 posts)VulgarPoet
(2,872 posts)You can count on a Republican to be stupid as hell. Kind of a stark shock when people who identify as democrats turn around and do the same shit...
cyberswede
(26,117 posts)I think the gloating from some folks will be intolerable, so that will probably keep some people away or a while.
bigwillq
(72,790 posts)I would stick around for a Hillary GE. I will stay here for as long as they will have me.
LAS14
(15,506 posts)I'm responding (paying the price of kicking) mostly to show the Hillary flag. The poster who said Hillary folks are keeping quiet right now may be on to something, but I think that's too bad. I wish Hillary folks would just make more noise.
Anyway, it's absurd to think that DU would disappear if Hillary were the nominee. What kind of a solipsistic shell do such folks live in who think that?
Chichiri
(4,667 posts)Robbins
(5,066 posts)I am gone.and i urge all bernie supporters to leave too.noway in hell will i vote for her.
I may return after she loses the general election.
besides why would clinton supporters want support of those they,clinton campagin,and bill clinton called racists,sexists,anti-women and just like tea party.
OhZone
(3,216 posts)Supporting the DemocratIc candidate and attacking Republicans.
Bobbie Jo
(14,344 posts)Can't come too soon, either.
Gothmog
(179,665 posts)ChiciB1
(15,435 posts)I've received letters from the National DNC (DWS), Hillary, DNC Head in Florida and OBAMA asking for $$$$$$ and have sent every letter back written in RED permanent marker, telling them NOT to contact me again!
And every email from too, too many shills for Hillary doing the same! Do they NOT know I support Bernie???? But with the emails I can at least UNSUBSCRIBE!
But what burns me up even more is the envelope they send you with pre-paid postage that then says, will you please affix a stamp so WE can save MORE money to cut down on costs! Galling!
If Hillary is the nominee... well need I say it?? I'm SO, SO DONE with them!!!!!
Now, I have to leave. Gonna try to take a break (TRY AT LEAST) because I'm having a hard time UNDERSTANDING the Hillary support. It's something I can't wrap my head around, but that's JMHO.
Merryland
(1,134 posts)I'm assuming the bigwigs who support her - like Cory Booker, Gloria Steinem, etc - have probably been promised prominent roles in her longed-for administration. The organizations that support her - like Planned Parenthood and the once-important NARAL, various unions - expect policies and financial support. As for the individual Democrats who like her - that is the head-scratcher for sure. Familiarity? Bombast? Who knows?
Orsino
(37,428 posts)Like, most of them.
randome
(34,845 posts)We take a stand, get adamant about not moving and then feel like fools when we're proven wrong.
All I would say to those who have staked out such high positions is this: take some time off, lick your wounds but don't eviscerate yourselves or descend into bitterness and depression. We're all human, we're all flawed. And then start over.
I've mentioned this before but I will again: I've made it clear to my daughters there is nothing they can't say to me but also there is nothing they can't unsay. In other words, give yourselves the same benefit of a doubt you'd give anyone else. Forgive yourselves, regroup, collect your thoughts and start over.
As far as I'm concerned, nothing that anyone has said to me on DU -or anything stupid I've said on DU- will prevent me from coming back. Outside events may take me away but not DU itself.
[hr][font color="blue"][center]You should never stop having childhood dreams.[/center][/font][hr]
Yog-Sothoth
(29 posts)But hey DU would survive so vote Sanders?
nah...
"Isn't support for Bernie here about 80 percent?"
^^^ If that's true it's a disgrace and it also would show DU as not very representative of the Democratic party.
dana_b
(11,546 posts)Actually it's Hillary who would lose. If she wins the nomination and loses the GE, I think the Dems will have a big "oh crap - what did we do?" moment. A crisis of faith, so to speak.
Yog-Sothoth
(29 posts)I partially explain why here:
http://www.democraticunderground.com/?com=view_post&forum=1251&pid=1263067
...and here:
http://www.democraticunderground.com/?com=view_post&forum=1251&pid=1263159
Clinton would not lose the GE.
However if Sanders actually won the GE...that would be bad for everybody in the country.
Sanders doesn't appear competent regarding economics, trade, or foreign policy. The "oh crap" moment would be experienced by all as our country dived into recession as a natural result of Sanders's policies.
dana_b
(11,546 posts)great reasoning - wouldn't want facts to get in the way. Good luck with that!
Yog-Sothoth
(29 posts)"great reasoning - wouldn't want facts to get in the way."
^^^ Thank you. I didn't.
"Good luck with that!"
^^^ Again, thanks...
stillwaiting
(3,795 posts)policies.
On foreign policy he does NOT have Henry Kissinger and Robert Kagan supporting him. He's the ONLY one running for President that would actually use war as a last resort in my opinion. That is exactly what this country needs.
No more wars to further the interests of multinational corporations' bottom lines.
Yog-Sothoth
(29 posts)
"Sanders has plenty of highly regarded economists supporting his trade and economic"
^^^ This simply isn't accurate. A number of highly regarded economists have recommended that we take a serious look at breaking the too-big-too-fail banks. However that is not the end of Sanders's trade and economic policies which generally have more criticism than endorsement.
Sanders is not a fit person to do any breaking of big banks or financial institutions, either...You can complain about the status quo all day long but a disorderly break-up of our financial system would bring our way of life to a grinding halt.
Sanders needs to learn that ATM's do not run on pixie dust and that turning the post office into a giant unprofitable bank isn't a good thing before he is placed in charge of anything more serious.
"He's the ONLY one running for President that would actually use war as a last resort in my opinion."
^^^ I responded to a similar comment about Kissinger in one of these comment branches so I won't repeat them here...
Simply put...we won't become an isolationist nation, nor would it be good for us to become one. We will continue to spend heavily on national defense and force projection abroad to maintain our economic/geopolitical interests worldwide.
A conscientious objector to war is a respectable, personal position.
However that is not one fit for a commander-in-chief as we are not the only actor on the world stage and our nations interests include the international arena.
stillwaiting
(3,795 posts)I truly hope that you do not feel comfortable within the Democratic Party one day very soon.
And, with that Good Bye.
Yog-Sothoth
(29 posts)...but you haven't suggested anything to suggest that my opinions are ill-founded/inaccurate.
I'd like to take this opportunity to decline your invitation to leave the Democratic Party.
Have a nice day.
Robbins
(5,066 posts)he is member of the right wing clinton-corporate party that is republican lite.he defends henry kissinger and bashes bernie at every opportunity.
Yog-Sothoth
(29 posts)You don't have any standing to say that I'm not a Democrat. I've voted Democrat for 21 years. Have you even been alive that long?
Sanders supporters in general have no standing to declare the boundaries of the Democratic party.
You support somebody who literally isn't a Democrat.
I raise points about Sanders. You attack me.
Ridiculous. No wonder as somebody said this place is overrun with Sanders supporters. Not many would like to deal with this gutter-level of discourse.
Robbins
(5,066 posts)yet your idol bill clinton attacked me as has many of you and fellow clinton supporters.
CLintons hang out with republcians.
stillwaiting
(3,795 posts)It would do absolutely zero good to engage with them.
They aren't going to change, and neither am I.
Clinton is a sure loser.she is already losing in polls.her support will never go up.
you and fellow clinton supports have bashed most of DU membership is majority support bernie here.and you called us with your idol bill clinton just like tea party.never mind many who support bernie are longtime progressive dems.
clinton supporters are using republican talking points to attack bernie.
Clinton is war mongor who is loves kissinger.clinton better on foregin policy my ass.
the rich are making off like gangbusters while rest are struggling.of course you use the talking points he would destroy economy.
Independents don't like clinton and some dems won't vote for her.
"Clinton is a sure loser.she is already losing in polls.her support will never go up."
^^^ Wrong. Clinton is an incredibly strong GE candidate as her positions are reasonable and can appeal to a winning portion of the electorate. That's not true of Sanders's positions. They are too extreme.
The Republicans are well aware of these two facts. This is why their pundits push Sanders.
"you and fellow clinton supports have bashed most of DU membership is majority support bernie here"
^^^ Not going to comment further to this bait for an e-fight.
"Clinton is war mongor who is loves kissinger.clinton better on foregin policy my ass."
^^^ This appears to be a poorly-informed comment.
However Sanders's out-of-the-blue criticism of Kissinger on stage with Clinton was an appeal to the uninformed...
Kissinger is a very controversial figure and is criticized for many good reasons. But of course Sanders doesn't like Kissinger...
Kissinger was a realist, pragmatist, and he fought the expansion of the Soviet Union where Sanders spent one of his honeymoons.
Also:
http://www.cnn.com/2016/02/12/politics/democratic-debate-hillary-clinton-bernie-sanders-kissinger/
"His writings and advice on geopolitics remain required reading in the foreign policy community in the United States and overseas."
...Sanders on the other hand has previously introduced a bill to shut off our nuclear program, doesn't know who runs North Korea, and thinks Saudi Arabia and Iran are going to magically become allies to defeat ISIS when they are mortal enemies.
Not good.
Robbins
(5,066 posts)already is losing to GE polls.saying she is strong GE candiate is bullcrap.but your clinton supporter
how does she win when every bernie supporter has been attacked by you and her fellow supporters and bill clinton.
so f-ing rich now clinton supporters defending kissinger and Goldwater.
d_b
(7,463 posts)just to twist the knife on every banker butt-licker piece of shit legislation she signs.
restorefreedom
(12,655 posts)that relate to other officials besides the president. scotus, congress, not to mention issues that are not even political (cooking and baking etc).
and of coure there is always reddit, jpr, disscusionist, etc
oh and life out in the world....
vi5
(13,305 posts)It will be the first presidential election in my close to 35 years of voting that I won't donate, canvas, stuff letters, or whatever else I can do.
I likely will continue to vote Democratic but the party will stop getting a penny of my money or a minute of my effort. I'd be absolutely fine if we had a rough and tumble primary with a few candidates exchanging ideas and barbs and what have you, and Hillary emerged from that as the candidate then I'd actually have much less of a problem than I do with the idea of her winning this year. But the party and it's establishment decided years ago that for 2016 they were more concerned with coronating Hillary than they were with building our party up and establishing a strong back bench and a strong slate of down ticket candidates. That's not the party that I signed on with decades ago and it's not a party I have an interest in being a member of.
NCTraveler
(30,481 posts)I'm looking forward to the meltdown. A little cleaning is in order.
Orsino
(37,428 posts)
redstateblues
(10,565 posts)but not very often. My wife ,at least, is happy. Now she's the one that looks like an addict playing Words with Friends incessantly
OkSustainAg
(203 posts)that people feel that the changes in this country are only about one campaign. This isn't sports. The movement of the left can and will grow far beyond this campaign. No matter what the elites will always try to undermine people. ALWAYS! They will be contrary to democracy. More and more people are beginning to realize this. After the 70+ are gone. It will be even more assured of change.
RiverLover
(7,830 posts)The only power we have ag the powerful establishment elites is in our numbers.
We need more people to wake up. And soon.
Jester Messiah
(4,711 posts)Hoyt
(54,770 posts)
great white snark
(2,646 posts)Iggo
(49,921 posts)
Oilwellian
(12,647 posts)RufusTFirefly
(8,812 posts)It'll be the pathetic "Nader excuse," version 2.0, even though Bernie didn't run in the GE.
Meanwhile, if HRC wins and begins paying back her Wall Street donors and putting corporatists and neo-cons in cabinet positions
Oilwellian
(12,647 posts)I'll just say hey, we tried to warn you. Hillary couldn't win the General Election, and we will continue to lose elections if we insist on running Republican-lite candidates in the future. It really is that simple. Especially from this point forward. Bernie will have at least changed the direction we want to see our party go...back to its roots. If they continue foisting candidates with golden handcuffs, they will continue to flounder in local, state and national elections. There are just way too many Democrats who are unwilling to appease the status quo any longer. Our eyes are wide open and we don't like what we see.
George II
(67,782 posts)....the neo-cons and right wing attack machine.
I can't wait.
(PS - to answer your question and add another - yes, but what % was support for Bernie a year ago?)
JTFrog
(14,274 posts)Support for Bernie here may be about 80 percent, but actual Democrats here are probably less than 50%. A good indicator is the zero posts saying that if Bernie wins, Hillary supporters are gonna take their ball and go home. Many of us have been through contested primaries before. We know we don't always get our perfect candidate. So we do what Democrats do. We dig in and fight the GOP the best we can. We don't try to destroy our party from the inside out.
I'm sick to death of this website being used to trash and undermine Democrats. Constructive criticism left the station back in 2008.
So... meh.
Robbins
(5,066 posts)Clinton won't fight gop.she will sign their bills destroying legacy of dems of past from FDR to LBJ just like bill did.
Those on social safety net will see cuts while the rich get richer.the young get screwed and would be forced to join military to fight in her and neocon's wars.
it's moot point.because if clinton wins GOP wins in november.
besides you clinton supporters don't want those you called racist,sexists,and tea partyers in the clinton corporate neocon party
JTFrog
(14,274 posts)Now it's all hyperbolic hateful trashing of anyone who dare support someone other than Bernie.
Hence, my reply to the OP that it's "ok by me".
A bit sad though.
Bobbie Jo
(14,344 posts)
MohRokTah
(15,429 posts)zappaman
(20,627 posts)How will the internet survive?
And since we know that "Vote for HRC and let the country slide right into fascism",
http://www.democraticunderground.com/?com=view_post&forum=1002&pid=6660544
the internet will likely be shut down by her and her fascist enforcers.
Scary stuff!
olddots
(10,237 posts)
SidDithers
(44,333 posts)There will be 8 years of posts complaining about Hillary, just like there there have been 7 years of posts complaining about Obama.
Sid
amborin
(16,631 posts)
Tarc
(10,601 posts)But I'd say only 5% of that are the shrieking malcontents who will run away in a huff. The rest are sensible and mature enough enough to know that any Democratic candidate is miles better than any Republican one. Just knowing what kind of replacement each party would put forth to replace Scalia should be evidence enough of that.
KMOD
(7,906 posts)Bobbie Jo
(14,344 posts)
Gothmog
(179,665 posts)DU does not reflect the demographics of the Democratic Party as a whole or the rest of the voting population.
Jim Lane
(11,175 posts)I'm backing Sanders, but even the average Clinton supporter here is better informed about politics than is the average Democratic Party member or the average voter. What surprises me is that some Clinton supporters make such a big deal about DU being unrepresentative. I come here precisely because the discussions are generally at a higher level than those in the mass media. Of course, "generally" doesn't mean always. 
steve2470
(37,481 posts)Even my brother, who's a LIBERAL DEMOCRATIC ACTIVIST AND SENATOR SANDERS SUPPORTER, has never spoken so harshly about Secretary Clinton as what I see here every day. He will vote for Secretary Clinton if Sanders doesn't win.
99Forever
(14,524 posts)....ceases to be an "underground" at all. It becomes nothing more than just another establishment mouthpiece. When 80% of the members consistently poll opposite "the management" choice of any community, it might be worth reconsidering their bias. But as The Who so aptly put it, "Meet the new boss, same as the old boss."
The question (threat) of "where else are you gonna go?" has been used once too often.
grasswire
(50,130 posts)hifiguy
(33,688 posts) Hydra
(14,459 posts)And not coincidentally, so did my problems with it. I advocate against economic repression, abuse of power, torture, war crimes, domestic spying, and various other illegal behavior...and at a certain point when the Dems were ready to move back into the majority...I started having posts hidden for advocating the way I always had.
When it's time to carry water for the establishment, nothing they do is a crime.
PeteSelman
(1,508 posts)There will be a lot of disappointed people for sure but I doubt the site dies off. Seriously, you can't kill something that's been dead for quite some time.
Dem2
(8,178 posts)I'll take my ball and go home.
vdogg
(1,385 posts)Democratic Underground will thrive.
hifiguy
(33,688 posts)And last summer's DU polls had Bernie winning 8.5 or 9 to 1. Consistently across several polls. Never less than 80%.
Vinca
(53,960 posts)There seems to be a fantasy here that if she's the nominee she'll breeze right through the general, no problems.
hifiguy
(33,688 posts)And even then it would be no walkover.
She alienates the entire left/liberal base, attracts few if any independents and strongly motivates the Repigs to come out and vote against her. She's probably worth between an additional 1.5 and 3 million Repig votes nationally. And that's all assuming she doesn't get indicted. If she does, it will be a bloodbath such has never been seen in American politics.
It will be very, very ugly if she is the nominee.
steve2470
(37,481 posts)All the non-Democrats and right-wing trolls will leave, yes. Most of DU's daily membership is non-Democratic. It will get slower around here but naw, it won't die.
Bill USA
(6,436 posts)grasswire
(50,130 posts)Could be.
And that's how it will go if Hillary wins.
Bobbie Jo
(14,344 posts)you missed the point completely.
eridani
(51,907 posts)--keep DU going for quite a while.
Avalux
(35,015 posts)Personally, if Hillary's the nominee, I won't be able to come here and pretend I like her.
book_worm
(15,951 posts)
Jon Ace
(255 posts)We can still make fun of whatever puppet the GOP picks.
Response to grasswire (Original post)
Post removed
ucrdem
(15,720 posts)Nothing will change. 
2naSalit
(102,714 posts)No sense of humor
On Thu Feb 18, 2016, 09:09 PM an alert was sent on the following post:
True - no reason to hang around when Hillary becomes the nominee. And then
http://www.democraticunderground.com/?com=view_post&forum=1251&pid=1271020
REASON FOR ALERT
This post is disruptive, hurtful, rude, insensitive, over-the-top, or otherwise inappropriate.
ALERTER'S COMMENTS
This isn't Hillary Underground, exterminate the place?
JURY RESULTS
You served on a randomly-selected Jury of DU members which reviewed this post. The review was completed at Thu Feb 18, 2016, 09:20 PM, and the Jury voted 4-3 to HIDE IT.
Juror #1 voted to HIDE IT
Explanation: No explanation given
Juror #2 voted to HIDE IT
Explanation: No explanation given
Juror #3 voted to HIDE IT
Explanation: This is a vile comment.
Juror #4 voted to LEAVE IT ALONE
Explanation: I don't see "exterminate".
Juror #5 voted to HIDE IT
Explanation: Mean spirited and hateful. The poster should be ashamed of themselves.
Juror #6 voted to LEAVE IT ALONE
Explanation: Oh puleeeze.
Juror #7 voted to LEAVE IT ALONE
Explanation: The original post was bait and this comment is not a surprising response. Look, people need to chill. Do something productive like call NV for your candidate.
Thank you very much for participating in our Jury system, and we hope you will be able to participate again in the future.