What is Hillary doing to counter her image as someone who lies a lot?

[Cheese Sandwich]

This is no joke. Several polls have found that voters do not find Hillary Clinton honest or trustworthy.

It's a serious issue. If she gets the nomination this could end up costing us the general election.

Yet she doesn't seem to do anything to acknowledge the problem or address it in any way. She gave secret speeches for millions of dollars to some of the richest most corrupt people. But she won't even release the text of the speeches so we can see what she said.

Did she really tell Wall Street to "cut it out" with the "shenanigans"? Or did she just make that up and really her speeches were full of gushing praise, like some other reports say?

You see for some reason she has a reputation for lying. What is she doing to address this issue? Instead she seems to be working to make it worse.

[EdwardBernays]

6. This is delusional.

Only people that support her and are willfully delusional think she's trustworthy. Even more than a few of her supporters on her think that she's corrupt, but that that's just part of "the game".



It's so self-defeating to pretend that all of those people are just stupid and confused.

The reality is that a majority of people know that she's not to be trusted.

[EdwardBernays]

29. You've misunderstood

Those arent all smears. She's just been doing dodgy things for decades. Lying endlessly about snipers? Saying Obama was just a single speech. Smearing Bill's lovers. Getting up to all sorts of corrupt behaviour at State. Flip flopping endlessly on Social issues. Taking money from the worst of the worst.

This is all on her head.

And we know this because there are PLENTY of politicians that have been in politics as long - longer - and they don't have half of the problems with trustworthiness.

In fact the right and the left have been attacking Trump for months and months and he's still seen as more trustworthy.

It's such a huge mistake for all the Hillary supporters to just endlessly ignore her behavior and justify all of it as a right-wing smear. That's not even vaguely close to the truth.

[cleopotrick]

49. & at this point in the argument, Hill-yes-ers feign blindness to the rebuttal

and move on to shamelessly flame another post that is lower on the totem-pole of regurgitate-able talking points

[EdwardBernays]

103. you wanna go there?

On Feb 29 she stated that the greeting ceremony "had to be moved inside because of sniper fire" while on Dec 29 she said that she had "landed in one of those corkscrew landings and ran out because they said there might be sniper fire".

""I remember landing under sniper fire," she said in Washington on Monday. "There was supposed to be some kind of a greeting ceremony at the airport, but instead we just ran with our heads down to get into the vehicles to get to our base." - March 24

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worldnews/1582795/Hillary-Clintons-Bosnia-sniper-story-exposed.html

Clinton made the remark in a speech on Iraq and stuck to it later after reporters pointed out that the comedian Sinbad, who also went on the trip, recalled it being entirely safe.

"Sinbad is a comedian," Clinton said. "There was no greeting ceremony and we were basically told to run to our cars. Now, that is what happened."- March 21

Then she lied about lying:

'"I did make a mistake in talking about it, you know, the last time and recently," Clinton told reporters in Pennsylvania where she was campaigning before the state's April 22 primary. She said she had a "different memory" about the landing.'

She mistakenly remembered her plane making a crazy landing and then various versions of being shot at.

Big mistake.

But she told a few variations for weeks, calling Sinbad a liar - or at least strongly insinuating that he wasn't being honest.

You can see for yourself how much danger she was actually in here ^^^ She can also see her lying through teeth.

You can also see Obama's spokesman properly pointing out that some of her experience that she likes to brag about is jut in her imagination.

[VulgarPoet]

114. It's not endless, but

it's for goddamn sure disgusting. Anyone who'd lie about being under fire is in my book, an irredeemable shitbag. Even the other liberals I know in the military will have nothing to do with her. Something something, integrity? Electing her will just make the military's leadership problems worse.

[CoffeeCat]

129. Hillary lied about the sniper fire REPEATEDLY

When she was caught in the lie, she doubled down, re-told the story and added other lies.

She never admitted to lying, which she clearly did.

She's an odd duck.

[VulgarPoet]

150. And yet we're just supposed to forgive her for that

If she told me that the sky was blue, I'd need a second opinion before I believed her.

[Cheese Sandwich]

172. "If she told me that the sky was blue, I'd need a second opinion before I believed her."

LOL

[EdwardBernays]

168. Absolutely.

And as it was all unraveling she tried to say that Sinbad wasn't telling the truth or was untrustworthy or was making a joke.

And of course she knew there were cameras there.

It's psychosis or something... Like she wanted to be caught. Or was just so arrogant about her ability to cover it up she just kept lying.

Or... Who knows....?

The fact that the media let her off with saying she misremembered is also really telling.

And the fact that she - last night - said she'd never lied about anything... Gross.

[Cheese Sandwich]

173. there was a joke video of that around but I can't find it

It showed Hillary dodging sniper fire and stuff.

There was also a joke diary entry called Hillary war diaries or something like that.

[CorporatistNation]

166. Her Counter... Double Down and Lie Some More!

[TTUBatfan2008]

65. It is not a smear...

...to say that the Clintons have taken in hundreds of millions of dollars from big corporate interests and then rewarded those corporations by putting a Wall Street executive like Robert Rubin into a pretty powerful job as Treasury Secretary. The right wingers could not care less about this. They are just as in bed with the big corporations as the Clintons are (Hank Paulson appointed by GWB to Treasury Secretary). This is strictly a problem for her on the left and it is a factual problem for her.

[EdwardBernays]

85. I agree with ALMOST all of that.

If you look at any Trump supporters they LOVE that he isn't taking money from special interests... he probably is, lol, but to them that is a HUGE selling point... Trump repeats it to great effect in debates as well...

No one REALLY wants politicians to be owned by corporations, even Tea Party supporters...

And in that sense, if it came down to Trump v Clinton, he'd crucify her in debates... sure he can probably show the bank statements from when he personally gave her money...

[TTUBatfan2008]

89. I agree about Trump supporters...

...but I think Trump has played the corporate game just as much as anyone. He has taken loans from them to do his mega real estate deals, etc. Even if he's not owned 100% like Jeb Bush or Marco Rubio, I still think Trump's hands are pretty dirty. That said, you are right that the supporters don't seem to notice this aspect of his career/life and they are just glad that he seems to be more independent than the other GOP candidates.

[EdwardBernays]

97. exactly

They're right-wing Hillary supporters...

[beedle]

92. Even assuming it's just all 'smears'

so what?

Perception is reality as far as politics goes. Unless someone has a way to counter a 30 year perception then Hillary's dishonesty is as good as a fact (which I believe is true, she is dishonest, but even if you are right that matters very little at this point.)

People smear Sanders saying he is a 'Socialist' ... of course he is really a 'democratic socialist', something different, especially in America where 'socialist' is often used to mean 'communist'. The difference here though is that even when the 'smear' sticks, people are no longer automatically revolted by the word anymore .. some people, a lot of people actually, prefer 'socialism' (Bernie's version) to capitalism (as it is practiced in America.)

The questions is not "are there smears", the questions is 'can you overcome the smears"? If after 30 years she shows no sign of getting out from under the smears/truth, then what does it matter?

[Mike__M]

135. Exactly. Excuses don't win elections.

Not even valid excuses. What matters is what the voter believes on election day. What doesn't matter on that day is how the voter was or wasn't deceived over the previous thirty years. If Clinton is the victim of thirty years of unfair smear, she has a very short time to counter it. The post asks "what is she doing about it?" The implication is that it may be too late.

[Cheese Sandwich]

138. But what is she doing to reverse her image as not trustworthy?

This is serious it could cost us the election and we could end up with a Republican is she doesn't address it.

[Cheese Sandwich]

34. This could explain why Republicans trounce Clinton in latest poll...

Cruz vs. Clinton Cruz 46, Clinton 43 Cruz +3
Rubio vs. Clinton Rubio 48, Clinton 41 Rubio +7
Kasich vs. Clinton Kasich 47, Clinton 39 Kasich +8
Bush vs. Clinton Clinton 43, Bush 44 Bush +1

Trump vs. Sanders Sanders 48, Trump 42 Sanders +6
Cruz vs. Sanders Sanders 49, Cruz 39 Sanders +10
Rubio vs. Sanders Sanders 47, Rubio 41 Sanders +6
Kasich vs. Sanders Sanders 45, Kasich 41 Sanders +4
Bush vs. Sanders Sanders 49, Bush 39 Sanders +10

[betsuni]

7. +1 (some people are so gullible)

[chervilant]

12. Perhaps,

if you read this, you will get a glimpse of why your assertion ("The GOP smear machine has been smearing Hi11ary for 30 years.&quot does not absolve Hi11ary of her reputation for deceit. Nor does it negate the fact that she is a BIG risk if she does win the nomination.

It's impossible to distance Hi11ary from her deceit because we have video -- LOTS of video (which the GOP will use, as you've already noted).

[Cheese Sandwich]

175. +1

Yes that's part of the problem. The distrust is rooted in reality.

[pinebox]

14. Boy are you gullible

Have a video of Hillary lying for 13 minutes straight

[thesquanderer]

45. That's a pretty effective video.

I wish they hadn't added the dumb fart thing at the end... it prevents me from sending it to some people I might otherwise send it to.

[RufusTFirefly]

77. Totally agree. Hate when people spoil legitimate information with crap like that. n/t

[Cheese Sandwich]

174. That fart was so unexpected

Very weird

[LAS14]

78. It's scary when the ability...

Last edited Thu Feb 18, 2016, 03:53 PM - Edit history (1)

... to change one's mind is seen as lying. I see it as the wisdom that comes with ever evolving maturity.

[Kall]

128. ...

Yeah, you go with that...

[Cheese Sandwich]

136. If she is trustworthy, then let her make the case for it

Because clearly right now people don't think so.

I mean what is she doing to address this issue? Because as it stands this could very well cost us the general election.

[valerief]

80. That was great!!!! Thanks. nt

[VulgarPoet]

115. Sampling this for one of my songs, hopefully I can have it done before Super Tuesday.

[LittleBlue]

116. She has no shame at all. It's pathological.

How could anyone, after watching that video, even consider voting for such a political opportunist? She clearly has no interest in gay marriage, she just says whatever she thinks will get her votes.

Disgusting!

[frazzled]

15. And OPs like this are meant to reinforce those GOP memes.

I might as well ask when the OP is going to stop beating his wife.

It's a cheap Karl Rove trick. We could do it to Sanders, too--questioning what he will do about the perception that he has anger management problems, or the fact that nobody in Washington seems to like him (the old "he eats lunch alone," "only 2 or 3 people in Congress have endorsed him), and more. But we don't. Because we're grownups. This is not the high-school cafeteria, where the mean boys start rumors (well, it has been here these last months).

[EmperorHasNoClothes]

22. You don't? Are you kidding?

Are you new here, or did you just miss the dozens of threads every day that attack Sanders for those very things?

[LAS14]

28. Good response - nt

[TTUBatfan2008]

68. Oh please...

You have Clinton supporters on here suggesting Sanders is a racist. You have David Brock playing the race card. You have Capehart at the Washington Post attempting a Swift Boat attack on Sanders' Civil Rights record even as Capehart is literally sleeping with a paid Clinton supporter. Don't tell me the Clintons are above the fray. They absolutely are not.

[tk2kewl]

69. you could do that but that would be baloney that has nothing to do with policy

trying to figure out Clinton's positions over history on so many issues is like playing a game of wack-a-mole...

there's a big difference between a person's likability and a person's honesty.

[jeff47]

21. Nope, she's done plenty herself.

She's reversed herself on a giant list of issues. That results in people feeling she is untrustworthy.

For example, when you claim marriage is a sacred bond between a man and a woman, and it is one of your core beliefs, you can't just say "nevermind" a later. It demonstrates quite vividly that your "core beliefs" are not terribly stable. Flip-flopping on your core beliefs is going to cause people to consider you to be untrustworthy.

Or as an even more glaring example, Bosnian sniper fire is not a GOP creation.

[LAS14]

31. She's lived a long time....

... and only rigid thinkers never change their minds in the face of new facts or insights.

[jeff47]

41. When you change your core beliefs in a sudden flip

instead of a lengthy process of introspection, it's pretty obvious you don't hold core beliefs very strongly.

If she had slowly changed her position over the years, it would be believable. Instead, she suddenly changed her opinion when "gay marriage" had 60% support.

And that still doesn't address things she's said like Bosnian snipers.

[LAS14]

48. She changed her position on...

.... gay marriage at about the same time that other people did who were taught in their childhood that marriage was for one man and one woman. Like Barack Obama.

[jeff47]

52. Obama went through a "none of the government's business" step.

among other steps showing a transition in his thinking.

Clinton went from oppose to support without such a transition.

[chervilant]

58. Keep telling yourself that, LAS14.

Just keep telling yourself that.

[TTUBatfan2008]

72. Obama as an adult...

...filled out a survey as a state legislator in Illinois that he supported gay marriage. He flip-flopped on it when he became a national figure to say he was against it and then flip-flopped again once it became more acceptable in the public polling to support gay marriage. He played politics on it just as bad as the Clintons have done through the years, but I will say in Obama's case that he wasn't the one who signed DOMA and Don't Ask, Don't Tell into law.

[LAS14]

81. On DOMA, you have no...

... sense of history. If everyone were always as rigid in their thinking as you are we wouldn't have made any progress over the decades.

[frylock]

133. Tell us all about how the repubs were going to change the Constitution.

[Hortensis]

43. Right. Those who want to believe lies do. Trying to make

them be as honest with themselves as they claim they want their politicians to be is a waste of time.

[Jarqui]

84. I'm sure they've been smearing her but nearly all of her lies

are not things the GOP uttered. Can't blame her lying on the GOP.

The top post is right. I've felt this for some time. Her lying is going to hurt her candidacy because they'll remind folks of all the lies over the years. It will be a video clip of her saying one thing and then another clip of her giving a different version/lying/flip-flipping .... stuff that erodes trust that cannot be recovered or refuted easily because the video is of Hillary doing it to herself.

It's the big reason why Bernie beats her against the other GOP candidates. Republicans and Independents don't like her or trust her. She has a low ceiling and that's unlikely to improve between now and November.

[basselope]

106. So we are supposed to ignore them?

These aren't made up talking points. She has been caught lying many times.

[smiley]

120. It's also to the point where many D's believe her lies....

[cali]

11. No. We listen to her.

[RiverLover]

13. Seriously?

That would require hours & hours of copy & paste.

We see it every day. There's no need to enumerate them. Its not like its ancient history.

[Bobbie Jo]

38. RW tactic

Repeat a thing eleventy thousand times, it becomes FACT.

[Cheese Sandwich]

119. It is a fact that people don't trust Hilary and she loses to Republicans in polls

[Bobbie Jo]

142. I never said it wasn't effective.

They wouldn't do it otherwise.

[Cheese Sandwich]

143. It's a huge weakness and she hasn't done a single thing to address her image as untrustworthy

Is she going to give a speech on it or anything?

It shouldn't be so easy for anyone to look like a phony or a liar.

[Bobbie Jo]

144. No, I'm not buying your premise

Forcing your opinion on others is another RW tactic.

Repeat, repeat, repeat, etc...

[Cheese Sandwich]

147. It's not a premise, it's a reality

Democrats need to be worried about this.

Clinton loses to the Republicans in the general election. Sanders wins.


http://www.realclearpolitics.com/epolls/latest_polls/

And the reason is because the American people don't trust her:



https://today.yougov.com/news/2016/02/17/nh-win-boosts-sanders-image-clinton-still-holds-la/


But Hillary hasn't done anything to address the trust issue. She's widely perceived as dishonest and untrustworthy. When she won't release the texts of her paid speeches, who can believe she told Wall St. to "cut it out"?

[Bobbie Jo]

148. ...

http://www.democraticunderground.com/?com=view_post&forum=1251&pid=1263955

[Cheese Sandwich]

149. Real funny. We could end up with a president Trump or Kasich

because of the Clintonites' refusal to see evidence that their candidate is wildly unpopular with the general electorate.

[LAS14]

35. I've asked for people to enumerate lies, but I never get a response. nt

[thesquanderer]

75. The video in post #14 is a good start.

The issue isn't the changes in position as some people are talking about, it is *lying* about the changes in position.

It's one thing to have been for NAFTA, and then against NAFTA. It's something else when, once you're against it, you say that you were never for it. That's the lie. She did not originally say she "hoped" the TPP would be the gold standard, she said that it *was* the gold standard. She insists on saying she has been consistent on something, when it is clear that she has not been. It is not the change in position that is the lie, it is the insistence that she did not change position. She says that Bernie is going to eliminate Medicare, which is only true if eliminate is a synonym for expand. And yeah, okay, there is the sniper fire. Really, this idea that she is "not honest and trustworthy" did not pop out of thin air, or merely arise out of Republican attacks. Hillary provided the ammunition.

[karynnj]

112. if anyone did, you would then claim they were helping the Republicans nt

[arcane1]

131. She repeated EVERY ONE of Bush's lies about Iraq, in some cases verbatum.

Was she lying, or was she stupid enough to trust George W. Bush? Those are the only two possibilities, and either one disqualifies her.

[frylock]

137. Try these on for size..

Bosnian sniper fire
She's always supported same-sex marriage
Every piece of legislation she ever introduced had a Republican co-sponsor
Gun industry is the only business in America that is wholly protected from any kind of liability
Claims all her grandparents immigrated to America
Claimed to have turned over her emails because of a routine State Department request
Said she turned over all her work-related e-mails
That's what they offered (when asked about speaking fees)


We could do this all day.

[Fawke Em]

36. There's a video of it in Post 14. eom

[valerief]

82. See post 14 for video documentation of her duplicity. nt

[casperthegm]

3. release her transcripts?

Address her flip flop on gay marriage?

Stop taking money from Wall Street?

Support Glass Steagall?

Explain why she didn't take a position on Keystone until Obama announced his position?

Explain her flip flop on the TPP?

Those are a few things that might help us see things "her way." These are smears- these are actual issues and that's where she fails every time when comparing her to Sanders.

[RiverLover]

16. LOL this is awesome. You, lying about her lying.

haha

Its entertaining at least!

[casperthegm]

30. You're right, flip-flopping is not a lie

It's just changing with the political winds. Or you could do the old stand-by political speak; her views evolved over time.

If you really believe that, so be it. But that's a lot of "evolving" on a lot of issues. It's an interesting contrast on how many issues where Bernie knew right from wrong right from the beginning, while Clinton had to flip flop- sorry, I mean "evolve."

[casperthegm]

67. Here's the deal...

I'm not a fan of Bernie's gun control position. I think it's pretty rare to find a supporter of any candidate who agrees with every position, and he did shift his recently. Not a fan of that either. Unfortunately I can't agree with you on the gay marriage. He's been a strong supporter of the LGBT community for decades and came out in support of gay marriage long before Hillary.

Here's the bottom line for me; Clinton has many, many more issues where she has flip flopped (or evolved if you prefer) than Sanders. That's a fact, as I've listed only some of them. And her poor judgement is well documented, whether it's the Iraq vote, the no-fly zone, or the server and the emails. These are actual issues, not ideological fluff comments. I'm more than willing to go through every topic, such as environment, foreign policy, civil rights, etc and discuss them with you. I'm quite confident when matching up their records.

[casperthegm]

100. Gay marriage- see the DOMA vote

I'll cite my source, as I'm sure we've both seen people make claims without backing it up;

http://www.politifact.com/punditfact/statements/2015/sep/29/chuck-todd/nbcs-chuck-todd-bernie-sanders-there-same-sex-marr/

And as far as the flip flop debate, I think we're going to have to agree to disagree at this point. Nothing is black and white, and I fully understand and expect a politician to change his/her view on something when presented with new evidence. That's not what I've seen with Hillary. And I personally feel it does make a difference with my trust of her, or lack of, as it were. And it does not appear that I'm alone in drawing these conclusions.

When you combine the trust issue based on her flip flop/evolving positions, along with her poor judgement on numerous issues that I've touched in, it stands in stark contrast with Bernie. Again, I think we are at an impasse, but I thank you for the conversation.

[thesquanderer]

32. That was a list of what Casper thought Hillary could do to address the problem.

That was not a list of (alleged) lies. Notice it was a reply to the OP.

[floriduck]

37. Lies alone don't trigger lack of honesty and trust.

Poor decision making and flip flopping drive a lot of her untrustworthiness. And don't pretend that you dispute some of her poor decisions. She even admitted to the IWA vote as a mistake. And the private server decision may not have been illegal but it was enormously poor.

[casperthegm]

42. Oh yeah, it goes way beyond flip flopping for me

The poor judgement is a whole other issue.

How about Iraq? She's tired of hearing about it, but as long as she continues to tout her foreign policy experience she should be expected to answer for her vote. Sanders foresaw that it would destabilize the region. She did not. She now wants to institute a no-fly zone, challenging Russia to cross it. And when they do? This is the kind of thing we are concerned about- not the flip flopping that is politically convenient, but the judgement calls in areas that she considers her strength.

[polly7]

44. Hillary Clinton Brought This on Herself: How a Democratic Primary Coronation Turned Into a War

Bernie Sanders has captured the imaginations of American progressives. He's also had some help.

By Conor Lynch / Salon February 17, 2016

Sanders has certainly made Clinton’s life more difficult, but one cannot honestly blame him for all of the problems that have crept up. After all, no one forced Clinton to give those speeches at Goldman Sachs or to accept donations from private prison lobbyists or to vocally support the Trans-Pacific Partnership 45 times before coming out in opposition. No one really believes that Clinton wasn’t always committed to running in 2016, as she claimed last week; so why would she accept $675,000 from a bank that is universally loathed? This is a self-made problem if there ever was one.

As David Axelrod, chief strategist of both Obama presidential campaigns, said on Twitter: “When the exact same problems crop up in separate campaigns, with different staff, at what point do the principals say, “Hey, maybe it’s US?”

http://www.alternet.org/election-2016/hillary-clinton-brought-herself-how-democratic-primary-coronation-turned-war?akid=13985.44541.L7NAZd&rd=1&src=newsletter1050817&t=14

[chervilant]

50. Okay, here's a partial list:

-- We came in under sniper fire in Bosnia. (the video of her landing and greetings on the tarmac belies this lie).

-- Chelsea was jogging around the World Trade Center on 9/11.

-- Hi11ary was named after Sir Edmund Hillary.

I could go on, but the most important issue about Hi11ary is that the vast majority of the Hoi Polloi perceives Hi11ary as a "liar, liar, pants on fire." This is NOT good, and could spell disaster if she gets the nomination.

(At this point, I think continued dishonesty is the ONLY way she will get the nomination.)

[chervilant]

110. So...

You've gone from "what lies?!?" to "it's such a little, bitty untruth!" You can reframe Hi11ary's lies as "things said in the heat of a campaign to burnish one's image," but it doesn't keep a large percentage of voters from viewing these "things" as lies.

I would encourage you to visit this OP and consider that cognitive dissonance is a temporary malady.

[frazzled]

25. What about Bernie's midnight flip-flop on gun manufacturers' liability?

And other issues?

Actually, one can perceive that he's even lying about that ... since he said he'd only "think" about it. Maybe that's why the largest margin he won in NH was among gun owners. He "slayed" Hillary among the gun-loving group.

What about his pandering?

And oh, yeah ... why haven't we seen a single one of his emails regarding the VA? Release them now! What is he hiding?

[Cheese Sandwich]

46. Doesn't seem to be doing any damage

People don't see it as a lie

[frazzled]

54. "People don't see it"

How do you know? It hasn't even been made an issue. You seem to "know" Hillary Clinton lies when she says something different than she has said in the past. Yet you believe Bernie Sanders is not when he makes a flip-flop. Even though a long, long record of defending gun manufacturers against liability suggests he has no such intention. It's in the RECORD.

If you are going to say one change of opinion is a lie, then you must say the other is.

And by the way, who is "people"?

[Cheese Sandwich]

55. They took a poll. People see Hillary as untrustworthy. She scores lower than any candidate.

Sanders is seen as trustworthy and honest, higher than any other candidate.

Including GOPs

[frazzled]

70. Congratulations, your campaign to call her a "liar" at every turn is succeeding

It doesn't mean it's true. Congratulate yourselves, as well, for being the Republicans' best allies ever. Benghazi! Email-gate! Every witch-hunt investigation the Republican-led House and Senate committees have opened, you've supported. You should pat yourself on the back. You've succeeded in creating a myth.

Sanders doesn't wear the mantle of sainthood you've projected onto him. Look into his defense of the captive insurance industry, which is Vermont's bread and butter, against IRS attempts to regulate it--it's the largest off-shore tax haven outside of the Cayman Islands. Look into his self-admitted bow to the gun lobby: he actually said in one debate he did it to get elected. Look into his refusal to admit that there were any problems in the VA until the scandal got too big to ignore (and probably too big to fix). Look into his wife's issues. These are all things that no one has even scratched the surface of yet. Fair? Maybe or maybe not, but it's certainly legitimate fodder for the political shitstorm.

No politician is perfect, and I accept that. Because no human individual is perfect. Life is complex, and government is even more complex. I'm simply pointing out flaws in reasoning. Hillary Clinton has been painted as a monster not only by Republicans, but by the mostly-independent, party-hating faction that is supporting Sanders. Congratulations, the ploy is succeeding. Hate always succeeds in the short term. But it's a dangerous thing to do.

[Cheese Sandwich]

76. Sorry but I don't want to end up with a President Trump.

Or Kasich, or Rubio.

It's not me... Democrats need to be concerned about this


http://www.realclearpolitics.com/epolls/latest_polls/

And this



https://today.yougov.com/news/2016/02/17/nh-win-boosts-sanders-image-clinton-still-holds-la/



That would be a disaster.

So is Hillary going to address this issue or not? She's widely perceived as dishonest and untrustworthy.

[frazzled]

90. And neither do I

Every reputable analyst has told us that general election matchups at this point are USELESS.

Wait until the Republicans get a hold of a nominee Bernie Sanders. They will have him stealing your children and sending them to re-education camps, taking away your IRAs, and promising blood in the streets. And if you think he's immune to such attacks, you are hopelessly naive.

Also, think of the millions of long-term registered Democratic voters, and their disaffection. Not even Trump may motivate them to turn out in large numbers.

Don't give me the "Bernie is more electable" argument. It will be the Democratic nominee vs the Republican nominee, and everything changes then: all bets are off. To think otherwise is to be blind to reality. (Why should I be surprised.)

[Lordquinton]

95. You're correct

and I'd rather start of with an 8-10 point lead, than someone who is already behind in the polls.

Clinton followers keep reminding us that the Republicans have been building their campaign against her for 30+ years, they've never had to unleash it. Can you imagine what their campaign against her will look like? 30 years it's been in production, they might have a year of research against Sanders, and it's gonna be the same stock anti democratic campaign they ran against Obama that failed. I remember when Clinton (Bill, this time) was supposed to have us all in camps by '96. Obama was supposed to have it done by 2010.

[Lordquinton]

93. I thought it was 30+ years of republicans workign on her

Now it's the Sanders campaign?

Hillary is responsible for her reputation, it's not a new issue, it cost her the nomination in 2008, and is on track to cost her again in 2016. If somehow she wins, it will be on track to cost us the Presidency, and that will be all Hillary's fault for not addressing her greatest weakness.

Everything you said avoids the very real and important question in the OP: What is she going to do about it? Saying "Everyone lies" does not help her position one bit, just worsens it, it's an admission that she lies, which is the opposite of a solution.

[Goblinmonger]

101. Because it's not a flip-flop

I think he made it pretty clear that having blanket liability is not a good thing. Having liability where it is clear that there is a problem is a good thing, i.e. you don't make them liable when they haven't done anything wrong and make them liable when they have. What fucking concept, huh?

[LAS14]

39. A huge majority of the people...

.... in this country have changed their minds about gay marriage. And we should be glad.

Big companies give money to both parties. There's hardly a politician who hasn't received money from big companies (including Sanders, via the Senatorial Campaign Committee... or whatever its name is.)

She has an alternative to Glass Seagall that goes father and that has been endorsed by top economists as being an improvement.

Keystone and TPP. On this there could be a dose of wanting to win the primaries, as well as evolving opinions as details became clear. But I don't support Hillary because she's not a politician. Bernie has tapped revolutionary fervor, but to my knowledge most revolutions that succeed are followed by a long period of flowing blood. The US was fortunate in being weeks away across the sea from its opponent. Save me from purists.

[Maedhros]

105. Calling Bernie supporters "purists" is cheap.

/ignore.

[Cheese Sandwich]

145. "a long period of flowing blood...Save me from purists"

[livetohike]

73. How are these lies? I prefer a candidate that grows with the changing times , rather than one who is

reliving his glory days of the '60's.

[tblue37]

91. Do you mean "aren't smears"? nt

[lumberjack_jeff]

154. The first would only work if they serve as an effective rebuttal not a confirmation. n/t

[hobbit709]

5. double down.

[Cheese Sandwich]

170. That's unfortunate because we could end up win a president Cruz or something.

[AgingAmerican]

8. She is a reactionary

Her whole campaign strategy is to react to whatever Sanders does or says on any particular day.

[Kip Humphrey]

9. pathologically speaking, always a liar.

[pinebox]

18. Here's a video of Hillary's lies, a compilation

[GreatGazoo]

19. Not releasing transcripts does not equal "lying"

Clinton has low numbers for credibility which may explain why her opponents keep putting phrases like "you can believe" in their slogans, it points to the contrast.

The next section was headlined, “The Fault Line: Hillary’s the Problem, Not the Answer,” and the strategists laid out the case against Clinton in stark terms, explaining that everything in Obama’s campaign, including his slogan—“Change you can believe in”—was meant to provide a contrast with Hillary, not on policy, but on character:

“Change you can believe in” was intended to frame the argument along the character fault line, and this is where we can and must win this fight. We cannot let Clinton especially blur the lines on who is the genuine agent of change in this election.

• The reason Clinton can’t be trusted or believed when it comes to change is that she represents, to a great degree, the three sources of discontent formulated in our premise.
• She’s driven by political calculation not conviction, regularly backing away and shifting positions on issues ranging from war, to Social Security, to trade, to reform.
• She embodies trench warfare vs. Republicans, and is consumed with beating them rather than unifying the country and building consensus to get things done.
• She prides herself on working the system, not changing it—rebuffing reforms on everything from lobbyist donations to budget earmarks.

http://www.newyorker.com/news/news-desk/how-to-beat-hillary-clinton

One of the authors of that memo, Benenson, works for Clinton this time around.

[Cheese Sandwich]

27. But keeping them secret seems suspicious.

If the speeches were as she said telling them to cut it out, she would release the text.

[LAS14]

40. Where are the cries to have everyone else...

... release their speeches. She'd be crazy to open up relaxed interchange to cherry picking enemies. The audience also expected privacy. This is not lying. It's just not being stupid.

[Cheese Sandwich]

62. Bernie already released his speeches...

and it was the same speech he's been giving for 40 years.

Hillary is the one with a major image problem on honesty and trustworthiness, and it will cost us the general election.

[LAS14]

121. This is not a rhetorical question.

Could you give me a link to where I could see this? This isn't a back handed way of saying "I don't believer you." It's a real request. I'm interested.

[Cheese Sandwich]

122. ok I will look for it

[LAS14]

123. thanks - nt

[Cheese Sandwich]

124. I couldn't find it

Hopefully someone else will chime in with a link.

I do recall hearing this news story about a week or two ago. It listed Bernie's speeches and said he had published the texts. The total was a couple thousand bucks, not like the Clintons' hundreds of millions. Not finding it in a search though because it is swamped with too many stories about Clinton's speeches. Maybe someone else will have better search techniques.

[LAS14]

125. OK. Thanks anyway. I'll see if it gets...

.... an answer when I look at "My Posts."

[Cassiopeia]

26. She can't.

The only way she possibly could would be to pick a solid campaign foundation, campaign specifically on an detailed issues platform, and then spend a number of years actually fighting to enact those ideals.

The very fact that she takes every position on every issue makes it impossible for her to ever be considered truthful. There's nothing solid she stands for other than the ability to say whatever she thinks her current audience wants to hear.

[Cheese Sandwich]

109. I'm afraid you're right it may be too late

She could really flop in the general election then. That's what polls seem to show.

[Fawke Em]

33. Lying more, apparently. eom

[EndElectoral]

47. I don't think she lied about admiring Kissinger.

[berniepdx420]

53. she doubles down on the lies

[uponit7771]

56. Marginalized people are usually distrusted more than the establishment

[Cheese Sandwich]

57. Hillary is a such a marginalized multi-millionaire getting paid millions for 30 minutes speeches

Must be hard I don't know how she copes.

[uponit7771]

59. She's a woman, who are disproportionately not part of the US power structure...

... only in unicorn land are women part of the establishment

[Cheese Sandwich]

117. Marie Antoinette was part of the establishment

That pretty much disproves your point!!

[Yurovsky]

132. That is just plain silly...

HRC as much a part of the establishment as any political figure active on the scene today. Debbie Wasserman Schultz is head of the DNC, and there are a host of government officials, both elected and appointed who are women and VERY MUCH part of the establishment.

Hillary isn't a teenage single mom in Detroit or a battered wife in rural Alabama. Saying she's an outsider is laughable, and likely a result of over-consumption of Hillary Brand ® Kool-Aid.

[uponit7771]

134. Only on planet Unicornia are women overall a part of the establishment on Earth theyre part of the..

... they're part of the marginalized even among the powerful

[lumberjack_jeff]

155. Astounding, is it not? n/t

[whatchamacallit]

60. What can she do? She's naturally truth averse.

Trying to disguise it would only make it worse.

[Cheese Sandwich]

113. She needs to give a big speech about the importance of honesty and promise to be honest from now on

[CoffeeCat]

61. Latest Poll---65 percent of Americans say that Hillary is not trustworthy; lower numbers than Trump.

According to the latest YouGov poll, 56 percent of respondents say that Hillary Clinton is not trustworthy. That is the highest "untrustworthy" rating of any politician in the poll--Democrat or Republican. Trump beat her by 4 percent.

Bernie's rating on honesty is the highest of any candidate, Republican or Democrat. Clinton and Republican Donald Trump fare the worst,” writes YouGov’s Kathy Frankovic.

http://dailycaller.com/2016/02/17/poll-hillary-clinton-least-honest-and-trustworthy-of-all-presidential-candidates/

[Cheese Sandwich]

66. Here's the yougov link, straight to the source

https://today.yougov.com/news/2016/02/17/nh-win-boosts-sanders-image-clinton-still-holds-la/


https://d25d2506sfb94s.cloudfront.net/cumulus_uploads/document/5i941zph94/econTabReport.pdf

[TTUBatfan2008]

83. Those numbers are pretty terrible across the board...

People don't trust politicians in general. Not one of them has an "honest" rating of 50% or higher.

Sanders - 53% either aren't sure or don't trust him.
Carson - 61% either aren't sure or don't trust him.
Kasich - 69% either aren't sure or don't trust him.
Bush - 70% either aren't sure or don't trust him.
Cruz - 71% either aren't sure or don't trust him.
Trump - 71% either aren't sure or don't trust him.
Rubio - 72% either aren't sure or don't trust him.
Clinton - 73% either aren't sure or don't trust her.

That's pretty awful across the board. I dunno know if Nixon started it or if the public has always been this suspicious of political leaders.

[amborin]

79. +1000

[HooptieWagon]

63. Getting Brock's 'Correct The Record' sock puppets to troll lies about Clinton's lying, I presume.

It appears that that PAC , which coordinates directly with the campaign, exists solely to spread the bullshit.

[Cheese Sandwich]

71. Ya it seems too their main thing is to muddy up Sanders

So they just both look bad at that point. It's the worst kind of negative politics. The same thing they did to Obama in 2008.

[blm]

74. "For some reason" = 2 decades of RW propaganda aimed at Dems, particularly Clintons and Obama.

The MOST people you are talking about have been force-fed over 3 years of corporate media insisting HRC was lying about Benghazi.

MOST people haven't a clue how SEVERELY the congressional Republicans and their poodles in the press were the ones actually lying about Benghazi.

I am a Sanders voter and a longtime Clinton critic who will NEVER give in to the RW propaganda machine or rely on it to smear other Democrats.

Shame on those who do.

[bkkyosemite]

86. To think she put that 10 year old in the range of sniper fire.

She is a liar and she is deceptive.

[Tarc]

87. Hillary doesn't need to do a thing to counter a bullshit right-wing talking point

Hopefully that answers your question.

[Sunlei]

88. Ask the Corps who paid for a speech to release their event text and videos.

In America- people, businesses, schools and corps are allowed to hire whatever speakers they want at their events. And they don't have to share those events 'free' with the general public.

[frylock]

140. Hillary has exclusive rights to those transcripts.

We've seen the contract. She also wasn't being paid what they offered. She set the price.

[Faux pas]

96. Kickin'

[Vinca]

99. Unfortunately, once the right has implanted the notion, the cake is pretty much baked.

Remember what they did to John Kerry? They tried their hardest to slime Obama, but his charisma just overwhelmed their BS. That kind of charisma is absent from this election season and that is Hillary's big problem.

[Cheese Sandwich]

102. Obama was taking slime from every direction

[blm]

118. George Bush driving the country into a ditch assured nothing would stick to a Dem candidate in 2008.

Pretty much everyone in this country with more than 2 braincells knew no Republican would win in 2008 and they knew it by the summer of 2006. The corporate media could no longer protect Bush after Katrina and his pointed attack on Social Security.

[SDJay]

111. I Don't Think Anything Can Be Done

When you're labeled, fairly or not, as a liar and as untrustworthy over the course of multiple decades, you're not going to reverse that in a matter of weeks. Even if she got up on stage and said, "I'm a liar. Please forgive me. I won't do that anymore" how many people do you think would actually believe that?

All she can do is try to shrug it off and give extremely direct and consistent answers and hope for the best. She could also stop her surrogates from running such a slimy campaign, as every attempt to 'get' SBS has seemed to totally backfire on her. None of us knows if she's putting these folks up to it or not, but I think we would all agree that she could pretty much instantly put a stop to it if she wanted to.

You know what's not going to help? Whining and complaining from supporters about how anyone who distrusts her is a big meanie, a sexist, spewing R talking points, are just brainless Berniebros yada yada yada. Some people likely fall into one of those categories. Those who do not and who just want answers are certainly not going to become more inclined to believe her when they encounter those types of statements and actions.

[demwing]

126. Lying better?

[Cheese Sandwich]

130. One Hillary supporter said it's not a big deal because everybody lies.

ok

[JackRiddler]

139. Yes of course.

Lie some more. What else?

[dragonfly301]

127. I don't think she gets it

she just (or has her surrogates) whine about a double standard for women. Truth is truth though and the voters are starting to understand that they have a trustworthy option to vote for. BTW - I'm a 58yo female.

[Dustlawyer]

141. She can never release them because even her most ardent supporters would back away!

[EndElectoral]

146. She's not lying, just...evolving

[Cheese Sandwich]

153. Some folks just like evolving a lot apparently

[tokenlib]

151. Her words don't mean what you think they do...

...you have to look at her history and Bill's history and the Third Way position statements to figure her out...

then you have to see if it's primary season, or if Bernie is pushing her left for the moment, or the current wind direction and wind speed...

[Cheese Sandwich]

158. It's just too bad that she has to take down the whole party in the process

[Jester Messiah]

152. Attacking truth-tellers as smear artists. [nt]

[Cheese Sandwich]

159. yep pretty much that's what I've heard so far

I don't think that will be enough though

[lumberjack_jeff]

156. This is at least as relevant a question...

... as the constant refrain that Bernie should explain how he's going to prove that he deserves the support of black voters.

But they really aren't equivalent, because while the former is obvious to anyone with even a cursory knowledge of Hillary's politics which "evolves" from minute to minute and audience to audience (assuming the promises made to those audiences aren't secret) the latter is rovian swiftboat bullshit.

[Cheese Sandwich]

163. I just wanted to ask this to see what Hillary is going to do about the trust deficit

She hasn't really addressed the issue at all about why people don't trust her.

[lumberjack_jeff]

164. Confirmation IS arguably "addressing the issue".

[farleftlib]

157. Lying about it

What else does she have? OH I forgot, whining to Rachel Maddow and anybody else who is paid to cover for her bullshit. I supported Bill and Hill for a long time and when I look back I gave them passes for a lot of dishonesty, a lot of behavior I would not have tolerated from anyone else. I regret every ounce of support, every defending word, every dollar spent on a pair of overambitious swindlers. Good riddance to bad rubbish.

[Cheese Sandwich]

162. I really identify with this comment

Was a huge Clinton-head in the 90s but totally regret it now.

[hifiguy]

160. What CAN she do at this point.

She's in Nixon territory on that issue. Deservedly so.

[Cheese Sandwich]

161. word

[Motown_Johnny]

165. She lies about it.. what else can she do? n/t

[Live and Learn]

167. Lying even more. nt

[Cheese Sandwich]

169. (VIDEO) Clinton: I don't believe I've ever lied

[cali]

171. More lying. That is what she does.

[Depaysement]

176. She's lying bigger and better nt