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[Flying Squirrel]

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[Cassiopeia]

1. It would be foolish to squander this opportunity.

[SoLeftIAmRight]

104. Please America - Don't lets this chance slip away.

Battle for the heart and soul of the Democratic Party

[Hissyspit]

116. Does't mean it won't happen.

[NorthCarolina]

2. K&R

[PoliticAverse]

3. "They thought Obama was more liberal" - after 8 years I still think he's to the left

of Clinton.

[TTUBatfan2008]

7. He is for sure.

But he is definitely more in the corporate wing of the party than the populist wing. This was signaled when he immediately chose Tim Geithner and Larry Summers to help guide his economic policies right after inauguration.

[hifiguy]

26. That was the moment I knew I had been gulled.

And appointing HRH just put the cherry on top.

[cascadiance]

55. And appointing Clinton was helped heavily by his earlier appointment of Rahm Emanuel as his chief

... of staff. His appointment of Rahm Emanuel was the start of his march towards a more real view of his right and corporate leanings that had been avoided up to that point right before the election.

[Stevepol]

106. How about the moment he appointed Tim Geithner?

That's when it got me. I believe Obama's heart was in the right place, just not working at full throttle.

[hifiguy]

109. Oy, that was another one.

Put one of the chief arsonists in charge of the fire brigade. Ugh.

[Rockyj]

70. I bowed my head when I realized the truth...

& soon after Obama was elected & I heard about Rahm Emanuel's comment that Obama's base had no place to go! Charter Schools & all that NEO-LIBERALISM shit came out re: the democratic party. TPP is not DEMOCRATIC & will destroy the middle class BUT Obama is slamming it down our throats like Clinton's did with NAFTA! WTF is up with that? Why don't democrats get it? Hillary & DNC ARE ALL SELL OUTS TO THE 1%!

[nichomachus]

14. That's not hard

Hillary's to the right of her old hero Barry Goldwater.

[abelenkpe]

21. Me too. Nt

[rhett o rick]

94. I am not so sure. He is killing people with drones. That's not to the left of anyone. Over 100

innocent people get killed by the terror from the sky for each "suspect" killed.

Obama institutionalized indefinite detention. That's not left. He embraces the NSA/CIA Black State that was fine tuned under Bush.

Obama played down torture.

Obama embraced the economic system that was in effect when Bush was president and gave us the "crash" that moved 5 trillion dollars from the 99% to the 1%.

If he is to the left of Clinton we need to be worried.

[tonybgood]

95. More importantly, Obama tried to make a "Grand Deal" with the GOP

by offering to cut Social Security benefits. The comments about Sanders being "disloyal" don't take into account that Obama tried to deal the most popular progressive program in the history of this country. That's why Sanders called for Obama to have a primary challenger. That's what the media won't report. That's what Hillary won't say.

[green917]

105. exactly this! ^^^

+ 1,000,000

[yourout]

4. Bernie is saving the Democratic Party from itself.

the third way path was leading to the parties destruction.

[hifiguy]

24. But to the enormous personal enrichment of

a certain group of sellouts and their bosom buddies.

[DUbeornot2be]

68. I always thought...

Democratic Party = Right Way

Republican Party = Wrong Way

All I can tell is the 'third way' just picks what they need from both sides as they dupe the 99%ers into arguing about left vs. right...

[JDPriestly]

74. You state it well.

[rhett o rick]

96. The Third Way figured out that they could keep their neocon ways, their Wealthy 1% economic

policies, their support of the MIC, etc. if they pretended to support some social justice issues. Does that sound like someone running for president whose initials are Hillary Clinton. All she has to do is say she might support social issues and that's all it takes for some. Doesn't matter that she might have a MIC backed foreign policy. We don't need an Iran if we make progress on a social issue or two. Some people can be fooled all of the time.

[DUbeornot2be]

98. Yep.

+100

[SomeGuyInEagan]

111. Bernie is more of a New Deal Democrat. IMO

His views remind me of my grandfather's views, and my grandfather was very much an FDR New Deal Democrat.

I remember when there were pro-life Republicans and one in particular coined the phrase "Voodoo Economics" to describe Reagan's economic philosophy in the primaries leading up to 1980. I remember when there were real Dems leading the party, not just a few outliers like Tom Harkin or Paul Wellstone or Ted Kennedy, who were marginalized in the '90s and '00s.

It has been a disappointing 30 years for Democrats, at least those of us who are of the FDR New Deal variety. The guy from Vermont who is an independent but caucuses with Democrats has been doing and saying what we needed our leaders to do for 30 years but they have let us down.

This is about restoring the heart of the Democratic party.

[Punkingal]

5. Well said!

Agree with you 1000%

[Vincardog]

6. If WE win and retake the party from the DLC, the Third Way, and the Clintons, I will once again

be proud to call myself a Democrat

[litlbilly]

8. My sentiments exactly. Great OP

[tokenlib]

9. You hit the bullseye!!

I've been trying to communicate this for a few days..and you did it much better.
The Clinton people think that Bernie is the dragon they need to slay. They don't realize that this is bigger than Bernie, and they have no clue that his has been building for 25+ years. This is a rebellion. There were signs of it eight years ago, and Obama tapped into it as we saw what we wanted to see in his candidacy and he won with our help. But now we have a candidate we don't have to read into..where he stands is clear for all to see.

[Avalux]

10. You did a good job describing what's going on.

I see it the same way too, and so do my millenial daughters. Not just the heart and soul of the Democratic Party, but ultimately - for the country.

[yodermon]

11. Bernie is the quintessential Underground Democrat. n/t

[SoLeftIAmRight]

12. Please America - Don't lets this chance slip away.

...

[reformist2]

13. Amen. But we shouldn't need 60% of the primary/caucus delegates to take back our party!

We need to get the super-delegates to commit to supporting whichever candidate wins the majority of the elected delegates. You know, the democratically elected delegates to the DEMOCRATIC National Convention? Otherwise, the outcome won't be, what's that word again? Oh yes, democratic.

[islandmkl]

15. you have it right...

it is time to put the traditional liberal progressive Democratic Party back together...

[Kip Humphrey]

16. The choice: Corporate Socialism vs. Democratic Socialism.

[Mbrow]

17. K&R

[CharlotteVale]

18. I feel the same way.

[MissDeeds]

19. Well said

K&R

[INdemo]

20. Well said

When I think about the 2008 Primary I think about what Obama said about NAFTA
He said "I will renegotiate NAFTA and stop the jobs leaving the US to Mexico and other foreign countries"

It didn't take long to figure out Obama was even to the right of Center on many issues.He lost his backbone with Rethugs right from the get go and then we were screwed.
When he began filling his cabinet with former Goldman Sachs execs and Wall St mafia members I know we did not elect a liberal Democrat....

Bernie Sanders has been the same Bernie Sanders for over 40 years,,

Hillary has been the same for her whole public career... center/right and as I have said many times Is this Hillary 2nd try for a 3rd term because of all the influence she had in Bill's administration.....not just as a first Lady.

[hifiguy]

23. rAmen to that! nt

[MohRokTah]

25. OFFS

[hifiguy]

27. What a substance-filled and thought-provoking response.

[PatrynXX]

31. Vulgarity gets us rather far

to Donalds doorstep..

[hifiguy]

32. There's a wonderful quote from the late, great Roger Ebert,

who proudly owned writing a couple of X-rated movies for Russ Meyer. Reviewing a "comedy" where most of the dialogue was profanity, Ebert stated that "while my vocabulary encompasses vulgarity, vulgarity does not encompass my vocabulary."

[COLGATE4]

29. +1

[wyldwolf]

28. I knew by your title this would be another 'heart and soul of the Democratic party' post

[Ken Burch]

41. Truth does need to be repeated.

Some want the party to fight for and alongside those with no voice and no say.

To try to change life and make the world we need.

Your side wants us just to be the slightly-less-nasty wing of the status quo.

[wyldwolf]

42. but it constantly is

Every election becomes a battle for the 'heat and soul of the Democratic party.' LOL

[Ken Burch]

43. The fact that the phrase has sometimes been used bogusly doesn't mean it's not true now. n/t.

[wyldwolf]

44. until the NEXT election, LOL. 'this time we REEEAAALLLY mean it.'

[redruddyred]

47. you clintonistas never have anything worthwhile to add to the discussion

the rationale for her support is yet a mystery to me, but i'm beginning to think it's because y'all like throwing cheap insults. apparently there are no reputable arguments for her platform.

[wyldwolf]

49. we really really really REALLY mean it this time!1!1

[redruddyred]

54. i really really get it this time!!111!!

thanks for explaining so eloquently why you'd choose to throw your support behind such a frankly mediocre candidate

[senz]

102. Who wants to be a monkey wrench

thrown in the works of others' attempts to make their lives better? Why not say something constructive?

[eridani]

72. Yep--I'll bet you're just thrilled with 2010 and 2014 n/t

[Admiral Loinpresser]

77. Dean and Obama were popular campaigners

in large part because people were desperate for something real. Howard Dean is just a glorified corporate lobbyist. I remember when I thought Carville was cool in the nineties. Now I wouldn't cross the street to piss on him if he were on fire.

We were desperate for scraps. Now we have in the presidential arena what we haven't had since Shirley Chisholm-- intellectual and populist integrity. You can scoff all you want, but Bernie stands in the tradition of MLK, just as Shirley did.

Your hubris is a perfect match for the neoliberal corruption of the corporate shills you support. History is happening before your eyes and you respond by getting in touch with your inner Herbert Hoover. The Democratic Party has ceded control of the country in local offices, state legislatures and governorships because of a lack of vision, purpose and guts. It is a hollow shell and a farcical vestige of the greatness of FDR and LBJ and all the activists who fought and bled to defeat our elitist enemies.

This is what we are about. Renewing the good in the Democratic Party to stand up to the evil of the GOP. Your assertion that "every election" is a battle for the heart and soul is pure bullshit. Since Al From perverted our political discourse, Democratic primaries have largely become battles between political prostitutes. How can a filthy rich elitist couple with a filthy rich elitist daughter married to a Wall Street pig living in an obscene Manhattan compound possibly relate to normal human beings? Mansions are a sign of spiritual perversity and disease.

So scoff all you want. Just don't obstruct us with lies and dirty tricks.

Go ahead and alert on me. I don't give a rat fuck.

[ms liberty]

85. Bravo, Admiral. Very well said.

Substance over snark.

[wyldwolf]

86. so you're essentially saying 'progressives' are gullible and easily fooled.

[Admiral Loinpresser]

120. I'm saying the opposite.

There has been so little to cheer about since the election of Reagan that we have had to settle for less than we deserve. But political and economic oppression have become so flagrant that people are through defending the status quo and politicians who do so. The ecological reality of holocaust is staring us in the face, so people are getting increasingly active about demanding radical, transformative change. I became apathetic and cynical due to the corruption of both parties. Now I believe revolution is inevitable. It is up to the Democratic Party either to align with this historical change or oppose it. I believe the party affiliation status of millions will be affected by the outcome of that decision. I know my lifelong status as a Democrat will change if Bernie is not the nominee and I am far from alone in that regard. We can no longer stomach an incrementalist approach that offers to trim away important elements of the New Deal, such as Social Security.

[Hissyspit]

117. Why are you rolling your eyes?

[PatrynXX]

30. always a two party system. so the Democrats become something else?

remind me how the Whig party is doing if life doesn't fit you make alterations. If Democrats no longer stand for Democratic values you go for ones that do.

[farleftlib]

33. So very true. Well said.

I believe the party has outed itself as the "other republican party." Better on choice, equality and gay rights, but otherwise almost indistinguishable from the Rs. No matter who wins this primary, the Democratic Party is never going to be the same. Whether it gets better or worse remains to be seen.

K &R

[jfern]

34. Exactly. If Bernie wins, I'll be a Democrat. If Hillary wins, I'll be an independent.

[Admiral Loinpresser]

78. ^^THIS^^ n/t

[Paka]

35. K&R

Beautifully stated. We must not blow this chance of a lifetime.

[paleotn]

36. One thing we have in common....

...with moderate Republicans, our parties left us in the mad scramble to the right. Of course now our party is controlled by those same moderate Republicans.

[HootieMcBoob]

37. Crash the gate! nm

👍🏽👏‼️🎉👯😻

[emmadoggy]

38. I always knew Obama was a

centrist, which is why I didn't get all that excited during the campaign.

This time is different. For the first time since I reached voting age, I have a candidate that I feel PASSIONATE about. One who promotes ideas and solutions that I truly believe in and support. One who TRULY give me HOPE for CHANGE!

[MisterP]

112. it's like The Phantom Menace vs. The Force Awakens

in 1999 people dressed up, went in line, screamed their hearts out, gave up their souls; later it hit the small screen and everyone started NOTICING that it's half a good movie; in December everyone was "willing to try" but very chary, but the movie has proven it can overcome the criticism, and the fans have proven that they can make workable criticisms

back in 2009, the skies were about to open, we had 70 million activists ready to roll, the GOP was going to shrivel away, we were going to take down Big Everything; it was getting pretty Jesus Camp

even the corpo-packed Cabinet was first "they're NOT corpos! he's so brilliant!" and then "it's a 'Cabinet of Rivals' like Lincoln! he's so brilliant!"; then the "fourth-dimensional chess" and "he's keeping his powder dry": it started the flunky-ization of DU, once we stopped being perpetual opponents

[zentrum]

39. +1000

[quantumjunkie]

40. K&R

[redruddyred]

45. it's a battle for the heart and soul of america

frustrated with the blindness and apathy of those supporting clinton. if it turns into a clinton vs trump matchup i'm not going to watch: those two have nothing worthwhile to add to the current political discourse.

[mountain grammy]

46. I didn't think for a minute Obama was more liberal than Clinton.

I did think, and still do, he was more honest. That's why he had my support.

[bvar22]

84. Obama's Campaign Platform was MUCH more Liberal than Hillary's.

Unfortunately it was all bogus, and all those promises made to LABOR and the Working Class and "fixing" NAFTA were just bogus fabrications to get votes. Butt when faced with the two choices, I'll take the one that at least makes the effort to sound like he cares.

[ozone_man]

48. I concur.

Being a Democrat would become, as it used to be, an honorable thing.

[ReasonableToo]

50. I concur!

[Tierra_y_Libertad]

51. It's a battle for the heart and soul of America.

[leftofcool]

52. Democrats will vote for the Democrat

Sorry.

[DisgustipatedinCA]

80. Yeah, but that's not enough to win if the Democrat is Clinton.

Sanders will get most of the Democrats, and he'll bring in lots of new people. That's the only path to winning. Hillary may well best Sanders in the primaries, but she'll not be winning the general election if she does.

[dana_b]

113. don't be!

And Dems will also vote for Bernie and independents will vote for Bernie and even some Repubs will vote for Bernie.

THAT'S how you become the President!

[FreakinDJ]

53. battle for the heart and soul of the Democratic Party

[stopbush]

56. If you all hate the Democratic Party so much, why not leave and

form a new party? You have no chance of changing the D party into the independent party Bernie imagines. Every D politico in the country owes their office to the support of the current D party. Hell, even Bernie owes his Senate seat to the fact that the Ds bankrolled his 2006 campaign.

What makes you think that any D senator or governor or House member is yearning for a massive change/reform of the party that put them where they are? They are in power, and they want to stay in power. Remember the saying: you dance with the one that brung ya.

And, at least 50-90% of the current party faithful nationwide are not interested in Bernie's reform agenda. They are out there working to get D candidates elected. They have their hands full doing the tough laborious work it takes to win elections. They don't have the time or the naivety to imagine that big changes are needed and that they will happen by closing your eyes and clicking your heels together.

Get real.

[Bohemianwriter]

57. ...

"They are out there working to get D candidates elected."


They are not doing a very good job, are they?

[stopbush]

61. Perhaps not. But they're doing a helluvalot more than you.

[Bohemianwriter]

62. They do their best to alienate voters....

...and they seem to have their minions everywhere to achieve the goal of a pure corporatist party by the donors for the donors...

[stopbush]

63. Not alienating this voter. Been voting D for 44 years.

How long have you been voting D?

[Bohunk68]

114. You want to play that game?

52 years. I am sick to death of the status quo crap. Bernie is a real Democrat and not Rethuglican lite.

[MellowDem]

58. Because our election system...

makes it impossible to have more than two parties, it encourages strategic voting. We have a first past the poll system, not proportional voting. You wouldn't want a progressive party to form and split votes from Democrats so that Republicans perpetually rule, neither do progressives. Until that changes, the Democratic Party is the only platform for us progressives, as conservative of a party as it is.

[stopbush]

64. Bingo! So cut the crap of tearing down the D Party,

because all that does is put a big target on the party for the Rs to exploit in the general.

[MellowDem]

66. It doesn't...

Attacking the Democratic Party from the left won't help Republicans in any way. And it needs to be done, because the party has gone so far right it's obnoxious as hell, IMHO.

[stopbush]

67. Moving left doesn't mean going over the cliff.

That's what Bernie represents to many long time Ds, and I'm afraid that's what he'll mean to the vast majority of Americans in a general election.

[MellowDem]

69. Perhaps Americans feel that way...

the primary will let us know, but in the meantime the fact he has a platform at all is great, the fact that young people support him hopefully portends for an ever more progressive electorate, and hopefully exposing progressive ideas to the masses will win some converts, when usually these ideas aren't even in the conversation.

[JDPriestly]

76. We shall see who wins the primaries and caucuses.

So far, Bernie is doing very, very well.

[Beowulf]

90. Wow!

It's been decades since I've had someone tell me, "love it or leave it."

Well, be careful what you wish for. Try winning elections without us.

[stopbush]

91. Tell that to St Bernie, who knew enough to sign on as a D

to have any chance this year but is now busy trashing President Obama and the entire party mechanism that he will need if he somehow miraculously gets the nomination.

Bernie is banking on the D party staying unified behind him even as he is on the edge of splintering the party. He knows that most Ds will vote for anyone except the R. Sad that so many of his followers don't feel the same way about Hillary.

[FlatBaroque]

108. "...why not leave and form a new party? "

Because we would rather fight to take back what we built with our sweat over the decades, all the while being sold out by Clintonism.

[Bohunk68]

115. Exactly. But the previous poster will try to impress us all with

alleged 44 years as a Dem> MEH!

[Nyan]

59. Very well said.

[SylviaD]

60. A bit melodramatic, aren't you?

We have two excellent candidates and the nomination will play out as it is supposed to, in a democratic way.

Whomever becomes the candidate, we should all rally around them to defeat Donald Trump or whomever emerges from the opposing cesspool.

We should all be proud to be Democrats, regardless of who the nominee ends up being.

And, by the way, there are some of us extremely proud of the Clinton legacy and record of opposing horrific Republican policies.

[Flying Squirrel]

71. The irony of your signature line is lost upon you.

The Clinton years were obviously better than the alternative would have been. However, whether he or anyone else realized it at the time, Bill Clinton traded short-term gain for long-term loss. Rather than fight the good fight on many issues, he co-opted Republican issues, forcing them further to the right in order to be able to draw a contrast between themselves and our party; the Tea Party is the ultimate result. Meanwhile the Democratic Party has moved steadily to the right and has become corrupt and beholden to corporations. In large part this is the Clinton legacy.

Do you think 15% of the primary vote being controlled by a small group of unelected lobbyists and other bigwigs within the party is choosing a nominee "in a democratic way?" Because without that buffer, Hillary would be in a world of hurt right now.

I would love to be proud to be a Democrat again, but right now I'm just an anti-Republican. Who the nominee ends up being will make a difference to many people regarding their party affiliation, whether it "should" or not.

[azurnoir]

81. The Clinton Legacy? Like welfare reform militarization of law enforcement and NAFTA?

oh but they opposed Republican policies

[SylviaD]

119. The old canard that Clinton policies were no different than Republican ones.

[DisgustipatedinCA]

82. But what does all of the pride buy you? I'm serious with this question.

[pablo_marmol]

65. I hate what the Democratic Party has become as well.

I think that FDR would roll in his grave to discover how we've been LYING about "assault weapons", "gun show loopholes", "cop-killer bullets", etc., etc., ad nauseum.

With horrifying political consequences.

[flamingdem]

73. Bernie is way softer on guns than Hillary nt

[pablo_marmol]

75. I know.

But what sickens me is that a good man like Bernie is forced to essentially lie ("assault weapons&quot and play politics on the issue or risk losing his "liberal bona-fides". Hillary didn't press the issue of gun violence without [devious] purpose. I think she wanted to diminish Sanders in the eyes of Independents who like his relatively sane issue on guns. Pure strategy. Pure dirty tricks Hillary.

[Admiral Loinpresser]

79. Bernie has been consistently pretty good on guns.

Annie Oakley has flip flopped on guns for political expedience. She was all about the second amendment in 2008.

[Enthusiast]

83. Kicked and recommended to the Max!

[Lunabell]

87. I too, thought Obama would be more liberal

Bernie is the real deal! He's not as compromising, or should I say, as conciliatory as President Obama.

[raouldukelives]

88. K&R

Sad but true. We live in the most honest representation Wall St will allow.

In the battle for our swiftly dwindling futures, the only choice is the one who isn't corrupted to the core by the same forces who have brought us to the brink of climate armageddon, who aren't feeding us filthy water, who aren't slaughtering innocents abroad in our name, who aren't profiting from the shackling of the my fellow citizens but instead fighting to release them.

If one wishes to stand against something, not standing with it is the first step.

[secondwind]

89. Kickety kick!

[Duval]

92. If Bernie wins, perhaps I will be proud to be a Democrat also. nt

[Smarmie Doofus]

93. Wow. The shortest distance between two points:

>>>This time around we have someone who refused to even call himself a Democrat until he decided to run for the Democratic nomination. To some people, that's a negative. To me, it's a positive. I hate what the Democratic Party has become, and I stand for the ideals it used to stand for. >>>>>

Utterly on target.

K and R

[EndElectoral]

97. I am fearful that 2016 is more a coronation than a democratic primary

[MadDAsHell]

99. Obama is exactly what we should have expected him to be. We're the fools that built him up.

To some extent the idiots on the right were correct, there was an awful lot of hero worship going on and huge expectations were set up for a guy with something like 730 days of national leadership experience.

We certainly have a right to be disappointed, but only ourselves to blame for that. We're the ones that ignored our own eyes and logic and assumed he was some kind of savior, based on nothing but the "historicalness" of his election.

[wolfie001]

100. Yes, when Pres. O set up his Council of Economic advisors

It was like "Oh no"!!!!

[Faux pas]

101. Nailed it!!!!!

[senz]

103. Believe me, Bernie is not "battling for the heart and soul of the Democratic Party."

Lift the roof, there's a sky up there.

(Interesting thread, wish I had more time. Later.)

[JGug1]

107. Proud To Be A Democrat

The amount of good that Barack Obama has done is immeasurable. I wanted but understood why it could not be, for shrub Bush and his minions to be prosecuted for crimes against humanity. That isn't going to happen from the White House, no matter who is elected. It may still happen. shrub is youngish and could live long enough, as did Pinochet, to go to trial....somewhere. A dream, I know. I like Bernie. I think Hillary is a more electable candidate because she has been there, done that and I think that she is more experienced. Bernie has pushed her to the left. Our job, if she is elected, is to push her more. I think she probably sympathizes with the ideals you express.

[Flying Squirrel]

110. Save me from politicians who want ME to push THEM to the left

on just about everything. It's time for someone who's already there.

[mother earth]

118. Best summarization I've read. I wholeheartedly agree & TY, FS.

[alarimer]

121. I no longer care about the party.

I haven't for years. They may be the lesser of evils, but they are still evil.

They never get money from me. I'm only registered as a Democrat because the primaries are closed here. Otherwise I would be unaffiliated. I am unaffiliated in spirit at least.