Hello Video #2

[leftofcool]

http://crooksandliars.com/2016/02/sanders-supporters-shout-down-delores

Please hit the video right beneath the first one. I think you will hear "English Only" as plain as day.

[workinclasszero]

1. ENGLISH ONLY

Sickening damn!

[bobbobbins01]

2. HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA

That's the woman shooting the video and shes talking smack about Bernie. So in actuality it was a Hillary supporter who did it. I hope this gets as much press as when the media was smearing Bernie.

[nadinbrzezinski]

6. I noticed that too

but thanks to the OP for the confirmation.

SNOPES got it right, and the comment was walked back.

And off to my notes this goes, as a fascinating further study of the 2016 race...

[ebayfool]

44. Notes? Hell, by the time it's over you're gonna have material enough for a book!

This FUBAR primary, so far, has been just ... just ... glorious in all it's machinations and screw ups. Makes me wonder how the rest of the world is seeing it!

And I further wonder if the DNC had a hand in some these screw ups. Lack of translators, ballots, lines designed to discourage people from participating, etc etc etc. Thank baby jeebus for Snopes - this would have

(actually, I'm pretty dang sure of it!)


Thank baby jeebus for Snopes - this would have been way out of control without 'em.

[nadinbrzezinski]

49. Not the DNC...this is not run by the DNC

This us run by the state Democratic Party. This is why Ralston gave the victory to the state party machine and Harry Reid.

And notes... These days I collect them.

[ebayfool]

56. Noted (see what I did there? LOL!)

So the state party is as in the tank as the national.

[nadinbrzezinski]

62. Local and state parties run party machines

Some are worst than others as to being in the tank.

My CA party has a stupid rule that none can challenge a dem in good standing...no matter how bad they are. So they protect themselves. It is called the Willie Brown rule. It's unwritten by the way. But pretty much they are called machines for a reason.

The Chicago machine, for example, is infamous for the patronage and favors. This is why it is so hard for outsiders to challenge both parties. And why all the endorsements read like a list of who's who in the party. Politicians rely on a network of connections, and right now favors are getting called right and left.

This happens at all levels. Look at your local city hall and look at who scratches each other's back.

[fun n serious]

8. Great SPIN nt

[bobbobbins01]

22. Truth spins itself

Its the same person speaking as in the first video, thats why it is so clear. And also why ITS THE EXACT SAME VOICE. But of course you know that.

[cui bono]

63. That's not spin, it's truth.

It's extremely clear in the video that the women is saying "Bernie is English only" and that it is the same woman who said "that's Delores Huerta". She is not a Bernie supporter yelling that it should be English only. There is none of that to be heard anywhere.

.

[leftofcool]

13. Nope. Nice try!

[bobbobbins01]

28. I'll repeat what someone said in another thread. Shame on you.

And another shame on you for good measure. Sleep well.

[leftofcool]

29. I am glad that the Sanders Campaign denounced this behavior.

[cui bono]

64. Well they didn't because there was no behavior.

They made a blanket statement that they are against this type of behavior.

When will Hillary denounce YOUR behavior?

.

[dchill]

55. There is no shame in Mudville...

Mighty Hillary has struck out.

[Shandris]

3. I think my browser is upset, I'm only seeing one video?

That's not entirely uncommon for me (although I usually find out about it much later), given the stack of add-ons I use, but I didn't see anything. Is there a direct link by chance?

[Lucinda]

38. They pop in in a second in my browser...there are two more lower on the page

The last one on the page has a woman saying Bernie is English only a couple of times and then it cuts out. So if anyone joined in and made it a chant, it's not in the vid, but it is on record that it was said.

[Shandris]

40. Thank you for that.

My add-ons occasionally ruin entire sites for me (and it's almost always video, which mystifies the heck outta me), so I really appreciate it. I'd remove them if it weren't almost impossible to use the internet after doing so, but since it is, I just suffer through them.

[Lucinda]

43. I'm in Opera, and on a networked laptop, so things can lag a tiny bit for me

and i've learned to wait for things to fully load.

[joshcryer]

4. That appears to be after the decision was made.

But it hits the point that Latino's were against the decision to be "English only." Which is why so many people are tone deaf over this issue. A translation should've been allowed. A translation by Huerta herself was perfectly fine and not "not neutral."

[MohRokTah]

10. She even suggested she and a Spanish speaking Sanders supporter translate together

It's tough to get more neutral than that.

[cui bono]

23. The moderator didn't allow that. n/t

[Joe the Revelator]

12. I don't think you understand what the word neutral means.

Also, stop moving the goalposts on what actually happened. Either she was shouted down by a crowd of bernie bros hot for blood......OR the moderator said that if there were no neutral translators provided then they would not have translators.

This really isn't a hard mystery to unravel.

[joshcryer]

17. He shot it down because of lack of consensus.

Because caucuses are mob rule fanatical insane things. Just go watch the video.

There were legitimately pissed off Latino's after the decision to not translate happened.

[Joe the Revelator]

18. My understanding is that the rules require a neutral translator. Huerta is not neutral by any

definition. The rules apply. The DNC should have had translators available.

[joshcryer]

20. Caucus rules are ad hoc nonsense.

Anyone could claim someone wasn't neutral simply by voicing a concern, if enough people agreed, it would be addressed. That's what happened here, with fervent, nasty people saying she wasn't neutral.

[Joe the Revelator]

26. Are you implying she is neutral?

[joshcryer]

48. If you're supposed to translate something...

...in a room where half the fucking people can understand you, you're going to translate it, and not shill. Otherwise there would be a huge backlash.

[Joe the Revelator]

51. But was she a neutral?

Rules are rules man. And in elections rules matter a whole awful lot.

[jsmirman]

60. One of those posts I wish I could rec

so accurate

[cui bono]

25. +1

[nadinbrzezinski]

14. Actually not according to the rules of the caucus

to be brutal, the mistake was NOT HAVING a neutral translator in place, which is what usually happens.

It is not like they did not know they would have Spanish speakers. This was by design by the party. You know why I say that? When I have covered Democratic party conventions... they always have two things in place. a person to hand signal for the deaf and a few translators for different languages. not just Spanish.

Oh and don't give me the tone deaf, I AM FUCKING LATINA. This was tone deaf, you are right, but on the part of the caucus organizers who should have have a NEUTRAL translator on site.

[joshcryer]

19. You're not addressing what I am.

The video in question appears to be a Latino pissed off about the "English only" decision. I'm saying it's tone deaf to ignore that there would be some people there who would find that decision reprehensible, in particular, after a bunch of Sanders supporters cheered it.

There are literally people in this very thread laughing because the OP wrongly assumed it was someone else saying that, when it was obviously a Clinton supporting Latino annoyed by the decision. No one is paying attention to these finer details.

As far as rules for translators, the whole thing is ad hoc nonsense, the moderator played his part, announced anyone could come translate if they wanted to (being that the room was half bilingual and could easily catch a translator being nefarious), but shot it down when no consensus could be had. It became apparent that after his "English only" decision a good several dozen Sanders supporters cheered for it.

[nadinbrzezinski]

21. And a HRC supporter from watching this video a few times

and she is complaining after the person IN CHARGE of the event said no to both Huerta and a Sanders supporter becuase neither was neutral. You understand the meaning of the word. And after SHE HERSELF walked it back, it is time to let this one go.

For the record, this will have no effect in my state. By the time we vote, it will be like why bother? So there is that too. And that is the state Huerta will be voting at by the way. Which brings another issue with Caucuses.

[joshcryer]

24. Anyone can be neutral in a room of half bilinguals.

That's how I see it. OK, go up on stage, start shilling for Clinton, you know how quick the mob mentality of the caucus would have you kicked out of the room? The moderator himself made that point. It's simple logic.

[nadinbrzezinski]

27. And that is why he ruled the way he did

there you have it.

This is why the PARTY, who organized this, knowing full well the possible makeup, should have had a hired translator on standby.

This is a self made wound, in a caucus system that needs to go

[joshcryer]

41. He ruled that way because of the headache.

No one would've been happy with anyone chosen to be the translator because everyone at the damn caucus either had Sanders or Clinton pins or regalia on. He could've kept it going, kept trying to get people to translate, but he was obviously not feeling it. Oh, and his decision to be "English only" was followed by cheers, so hey, he felt legitimized by not pursuing the point.

I'm sorry, this neutrality talking point is simply bunk in my eyes. They should have never called into question the neutrality of Huerta. If Chuy Garcia was asked to translate or was going to the stage to translate, and some Clinton supporters called him "not neutral" I would balk at that nonsense, as well. And I would hope that we could all agree that in a room of half bilinguals Garcia could translate happily.

If this Huerta hate continues we're fucked. It's such a small nonissue, but it's pervading the whole site and Reddit as well. Get over it. Someone related an incident wrong, it doesn't mean that the result was different. The result was English only. Latino's were pissed about it.

But yes, the caucus system is ridiculous. The ad hoc nature and extreme rule making is completely contrary to democracy.

[nadinbrzezinski]

45. Neither Huerta or the Sanders supporter were neutral

Under any definition. The party should have had a neutral translator on stand by. Yes, it was that simple. Neither partisan was neutral

[joshcryer]

54. I've never heard of a caucus that wasn't staffed by fully volunteers.

Each and every person having a candidate in mind as they volunteer and participating in the process fully.

I've never heard of translators hired (who were "politically neutral&quot or ASL translators hired or anything like that.

It's always been in my experience a purely volunteer driven affair, largely by people attending the caucus.

The moderator was fully within his power to invite the first person down to the stage to translate. The only failure of the moderator was his mishandling the event, allowing the mob to shut down the translation action. They could have stayed up another hour discussing who would get to translate. Hell, if I was that moderator, I would've tabled a poll on whether or not Huerta was "neutral enough" to translate in a room full of bilingual people.

Guarantee you that would've gone a completely different way.

[nadinbrzezinski]

58. Well josh I have never heard so many excuses

To violate the rules of the caucus. And I have seen events run by my local party who are staffed by volunteers and have translators on stand by. Some are even professional translators. I have also seen political rallies where again, there are pros on stage. Why? As well meaning as a partisan is, and I believe she was, choice of words can change meaning

I also am betting her original tweet is what she heard...not understanding it came from a Hillary supporter. She is on the stage, supporter is on a corner...sure shit happens. Why she likely walked it back.

But you are making way too many excuses for not respecting the rules. Regardless, one poster said that perhaps NV will see legislation moving it to a primary system.

But seriously, you are wrong on this and you are trying to use this to divide. I promise you...this will not get Latinos to abandon Sanders in droves. This is photo-gate all over again. And Capeheart is still smarting.

[joshcryer]

65. *sigh* Nothing in the Selection Process mentions "neutrality for translators."

http://nvdems.com/wp-content/uploads/2015/12/NSDP_DelegateSelectionPlan_2016.pdf

Meanwhile the people who called for neutrality were apparent observers, and should not have even said anything: http://nvdems.com/wp-content/uploads/2016/02/NV-Dems_Caucus-Day-At-Large-Guidelines_012716-Updated.pdf

I'll note you accused me of "making excuses," when you have no "rules" to provide to me to prove your assertion about "neutrality."

I am not wrong on this. I think it was wrong for people to cheer "English only." I think, now that I watched that video again, the whole thing was quite ugly, with people yelling that they didn't understand Spanish.

[nadinbrzezinski]

75. Who is applauding English only?

You have certainly a good imagination. And this is the racist crap that is off putting to say the least but now expected from a certain crowd.

I will say it now...if Clintn wins the nomination these politics of personal destruction will have zero effect in my state. For all I care Dems could nominate Caligula and he would be elected. But they will in swing states. Sanders supporters are telling you in no uncertain terms they will stay home because of them. Sure some of that is bluster, but some will. Say hi to President trump. And I will "blame" since it will have to be assigned, Clinton supporters. I got very personal reasons to consider a good chunk racists by the way.

Oh and continue to blame the wrong people for this. The fact is, this is the Nevada party machine at work. They are responsible. They knew this was not going to be a caucus that would be majority monolingual (English) so yes I blame the party.

Whether this was on purpose ( which would make it ten times as bad), or just an oversight is a very good question.

[Live and Learn]

66. Rules despite you finding them bunk are supposed to be followed. nt

[joshcryer]

69. Ad hoc caucus rules?

They don't even follow their own insane rules half the time anyway.

[Live and Learn]

70. Jheez, up is down, moral is immoral, rules are meant to be broken.

Enough of this crap!

[joshcryer]

71. A rule forbidding translation...

...if not a rule I'd abide, no.

[Live and Learn]

72. What language is that? nt

[cui bono]

61. The moderator is the one who didn't allow it. And someone who has endorsed a candidate is not

neutral.

.

[MohRokTah]

5. I'm glad the Sanders campaign denounced the behavior. eom

[frylock]

33. link?

[MohRokTah]

46. It's in the update on the Crooks and Liars story.

On my iPad so getting the link is difficult.m

The link is in the OP, just scroll down, it's close to the bottom.

[frylock]

52. Yeah, I saw it. It was a blanket statement about unity and respect.

Something about which Team Hillary knows fuckall.

[cui bono]

74. No. They didn't denounce the behavior because there was no behavior to denounce.

They made a blanket statement about what they stand for as far as civility etc.

.

[Joe the Revelator]

7. Stop lying. Its one CLINTON supporter offering commentary when the MODERATOR

would not allow non-neutral translators.

You're purposefully propagating a lie that YOUR OWN link disproves. Keep up the good work!

[Lucinda]

9. Bookmarking to watch later. Thankie!

[ScreamingMeemie]

11. That is a Hillary supporter saying that.

If you look up all of the videos, she says "It's Delores Huerto, my goodness..." then she says "Bernie is English only" over the people shouting "neutral..." This is the same video... only chopped up. If you watch the entire video, it shows this cam operator scanning the Hillary signs and supporters and they are all having a good time. She is upset with the Bernie supporters and that is why she says what she does... The woman who says it is a Hillary supporter.


Disclaimer: I'm just an average girl who intends on voting for the Dem nominee.

[Autumn]

15. You might want to listen to that again. That wasn't a Bernie supporters chanting English Only

[leftofcool]

30. Obviously Bernie thought so.

I believe he has denounced the behavior.

[ScreamingMeemie]

32. Because, sight unseen, it would be the right thing to do. Even

if you find out later it was made up. It is called respect. Something that is lacking here on DU among the supporters of both candidates.

No, this did not happen. Yes, it was right for Bernie to make a statement in case it did happen.

Easy peasy. I denounce that kind of behavior too, even when it doesn't happen or I'm later proven mistaken.

I denounce that type of behavior (again, from both of the more nasty on each side) here, and it doesn't seem to stop anyone.

[frylock]

34. link?

[Autumn]

36. And so he should. We should all denounce that type of behavior. I did so immediately...

and then we heard the rest of the story. You know that woman wasn't a Bernie supporter don't you? You know that that video doesn't show Bernie supporters chanting "English Only" as she claimed they did don't you?

[cui bono]

42. He actually did not really as there was no such behavior at that event.

The campaign did put out a blanket statement though about not condoning that 'type of behavior', which is what they had to do.

.

[cui bono]

39. No he did not. You keep posting comments without links.

And how do you go from "Obviously" to "I believe". If you are not sure how is it "obvious"? Good lord.

There was no such behavior to denounce, so no, he did not denounce "the behavior". The campaign put out a blanket statement to cover their bases but made no admission as to the existence of said behavior.

Here's the statement from the campaign which you could have easily found yourself if you cared enough to find out facts before shooting off an incorrect and slanderous post.

Also, Sanders’ campaign provided a statement to MSNBC national correspondent Joy Reid saying, “This campaign is about bringing people together not dividing them. We expect our supporters to be respectful of all people and don’t condone anything otherwise.”
https://www.rawstory.com/2016/02/civil-rights-activist-dolores-huerta-sanders-backers-shut-me-down-for-offering-spanish-translation/

.

[frylock]

50. In Hillarian speak, Bernie personally called out all supporters on DU individually.

[melman]

16. Wow

How embarrassing. For you.

[cui bono]

31. I only see one video but it seems others have seen the one you're talking about and

it seems the consensus is that you are completely wrong and that it is a Hillary supporter saying "English only".

.

[ScreamingMeemie]

35. If you look at the link posted here, it is a chopped up version of another video,

removing the parts that show the videographer hanging out with the Hillary supporters before the kerfluffle. It's designed to do that. I seriously think that, since Delores Huerta has walked it back and Bernie has denounced the behavior (even though it didn't happen), we should move on.

[cui bono]

59. Finally saw it... had to use another less locked down browser.

This shit is ridiculous. Hillary supporters shuld be ashamed of themselves trying to prove this conspiracy theory of theirs. I don't care WHO said it, if it didn't happen it didn't happen. Sad that an icon has to be shown to have been mistaken but them's the breaks.

.

[Autumn]

37. Scroll down and you'll see two videos. It's the second one.

You gotta see it for yourself.

[cui bono]

57. Okay, saw it! omg!!!

You have to be a real you know what to not grasp that that is a Hillary supporter saying "Bernie is English only, Bernie is English only".

Some of these Hillary supporters must have LITERALLY drank the kool-aid.

There's another one who keeps saying that a comment by Killer Mike is worse than the mass murders caused by Kissinger.

.

[cui bono]

47. Hello Video #1

[desmiller]

53. Jesus

[Live and Learn]

67. Well that settles it. It was a Clinton supporter that said it. Where is the outrage now? nt

[Ken Burch]

68. No, you don't.

Only the mod said "English only".

[snort]

73. Laughable.

[Gothmog]

76. Thanks for posting

[PeaceNikki]

77. Anyone who uses this to disparage one of the most influential women of our lifetimes is an asshole.

She's an honorable woman who has worked her entire life for civil and worker's rights. She was trying to make sure those who spoke Spanish knew what the fuck was going on.

If you find yourself questioning her integrity or accomplishments look them up.

She's a smart, honorable woman whose opinion I and all of us should respect.

If you start questioning where she "went wrong", wondering how she could ever support HRC, maybe instead you should question your own beliefs. Maybe you should examine what right wing bullshit you're buying into.

Maybe it's you.