Anti-semitism, the 800lb gorilla in the room that nobody seems to want to talk about

[Bread and Circus]

Last edited Mon Feb 22, 2016, 04:00 PM - Edit history (1)

I personally feel that anti-semitism may be playing a large role in the Democratic Primary nomination process. Yet, there's not really a lot of forward facing honest discussion of this possibility.

I don't see it here on DU and I don't see it out there in the mainstream media.

But how can it not be.

People often say "America is not ready for a jewish President" but maybe the Democratic Party, or at least certain core constituencies within it, are not ready for a jewish President.

I have been reading numerous sources to suggest that anti-semetism is higher in core constituencies of the Democratic Party than you would normally think. I was quite surprised by this information and I do feel I need to read more because the research I have seen so far is kind of shocking.

Anyway, there may be others here who are well versed in this matter that might be able to shed light on this situation and may be able to point me and other interested readers toward research that illuminates the extent of where anti-semitism may be found within the Democratic Party and to which extent. Or maybe you can show re-assuring evidence that this is not the case.

This is a very sensitive subject and right now what I am finding is dismaying. I don't want to set my view in stone and I would appreciate any counter evidence that would refute what I am reading in regards to the prevalence of anti-semitism within the Democratic Party in certain core constituencies.

I just don't think we can have an honest discussion about this primary without discussing this issue.

On edit, I am adding this link:

archive.adl.org/anti_semitism_domestic/ADL-2011-Anti-Semitism_Presentation.pdf

I think the statistics within it are remarkable.

[mgmaggiemg]

1. you should send this to the GOP

dems are not anti-semites

[cali]

2. You can't really believe that.

[Bad Thoughts]

3. I wouldn't think they are Nixonian either. eom.

[rhett o rick]

136. Ok, well Dems are neither sexists nor racists either but that hasn't slowed down the accusations

of such.

[TexasMommaWithAHat]

173. Thank again

https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/volokh-conspiracy/wp/2014/02/19/entrenched-anti-semitic-views-very-rare-among-whites-and-asian-americans-common-among-blacks-and-latinos/

[trillion]

200. I've been accused of being one every time I supported the Palestinians when they were getting

bombed.

Seems all you have to do is be against what Israel is doing at the moment to be accused of being one.

I don't think most of us Americans have a beef with the people of Israel themselves. It's the RW government's human rights violations when they attack people that is the problem. I call the same on the US when they do it. I've been called anti-Semite even for saying I want us to stop giving them our tax dollars so they can buy our weapons. They should use their own taxes.

[mgmaggiemg]

201. hey I don't think

isreal should be bombing either

[trillion]

203. I wouldn't think you would. Or anyone here. I'd hope not at least.

[GoneFishin]

228. Yeah. Funny how not wanting innocent people to get blown to bits makes you the evil one.

[mgmaggiemg]

6. agree

[cali]

7. Anti-semitism could certainly be a factor.

[geek tragedy]

59. so could space-based mind control laser beams.

put up or shut up with this shit.

accusing 'core constituencies' of bigotry because they won't support Sanders is foul, disgusting, and sadly unsurprising

[cali]

81. It's hardly a secret that there is a greater rate of anti-semitism

in the AA community than the public at large. The good news is that the rate has gone steadily down hill since the mid nineties. The history of the relationship between AAs and Jews is a complex and rich one. It's also been fraught with tension, particularly from the late sixties until the mid nineties.

[geek tragedy]

84. it hasn't been an issue since we booted Cynthia McKinney and her loathsome papa to the curb.

if you have some polling data to indicate blacks are more anti-Semitic than Christian white people, feel free to share it with the class.

Otherwise, enough of the whispering campaign against black people.

[cali]

95. I agree. It's much improved.

And sure.


New York, NY, October 28, 2013 … On the occasion of its centennial, the latest Anti-Defamation League (ADL) survey of the American people found that 12 percent of Americans harbor deeply entrenched anti-Semitic attitudes. This marks a 3 percent decline since the League’s previous poll on anti-Semitic attitudes in 2011.

The 2013 Survey of American Attitudes Toward Jews in America, a national telephone survey of 1,200 adults, was conducted October 12-22 by Marttila Strategies of Washington, D.C. and Boston. The margin of error is +/- 2.8 percent.

The ADL poll measured anti-Semitic propensities using an 11-question index developed by ADL nearly 50 years ago. The first poll, issued in 1964, found that 29 percent of Americans were infected at the time with anti-Jewish attitudes.

<snip>

The poll also looked at anti-Semitic views among significantly large minority groups:

Hispanics: Once again, Hispanic Americans born outside of the U.S. are significantly more likely than Hispanics born in the U.S. to hold anti-Semitic views. According to the survey, 36 percent of foreign-born Hispanics hold anti-Semitic views, as compared to 14 percent of U.S.-born Hispanics.
Those findings represent a welcome decline from 2011, when 42 percent of foreign-born Hispanics, and 20 percent of U.S. born Hispanics held anti-Semitic views.

African-Americans: For many years, anti-Semitic views among the African-American have remained consistently higher than the general population. In 2013, 20 percent of African-Americans expressed strongly anti-Semitic views, an encouraging decrease of nine percentage points from the previous survey in 2011.

“We are heartened by the significant drop in the levels within both the Hispanic community and the African-American community,” said Mr. Foxman. “While the changes are significant, it is still troubling to see such a high number for foreign-born Hispanics. It shows that immigrants to the United States bring with them deeply ingrained anti-Semitic attitudes, and that we must remain vigilant in working to counter these attitudes among the foreign born.”

<snip>
http://www.adl.org/press-center/press-releases/anti-semitism-usa/adl-poll-anti-semitic-attitudes-america-decline-3-percent.html#.VstXHZBOlpU

[politicaljunkie41910]

117. It must be a secret since I didn't get the memo that the Black community is a bunch of anti-semites

You Bernie supporters need to quit with all your anecdotal incidents posing as scientific facts.

[ebayfool]

293. Heads up. This is an ism that must not be discussed!

REASON FOR ALERT

This post is disruptive, hurtful, rude, insensitive, over-the-top, or otherwise inappropriate.

ALERTER'S COMMENTS

Another racist comment coming from a Bernie supporter.....it's why they have this poc problem, it's why they. Make DU suck.

You served on a randomly-selected Jury of DU members which reviewed this post. The review was completed at Mon Feb 22, 2016, 09:22 PM, and the Jury voted 2-5 to LEAVE IT.

Juror #1 voted to LEAVE IT ALONE
Explanation: alert abuse
Juror #2 voted to LEAVE IT ALONE
Explanation: No. Context matters. The entire thread is an attempt at an open discussion on anti-semitism. Just as DU has many threads discussing racism, sexism, etc. I see nothing any different than threads discussing the other -isms. Suspect the mention of Bernie supporter is telling of the real reason for the alert. Furthermore, vigilante alerts are' as alerter says, "making DU suck".
Juror #3 voted to HIDE IT
Explanation: I agree with the alert. I hope this racist post is hidden.
Juror #4 voted to LEAVE IT ALONE
Explanation: No explanation given
Juror #5 voted to LEAVE IT ALONE
Explanation: No explanation given
Juror #6 voted to HIDE IT
Explanation: Agree with alerter.
Juror #7 voted to LEAVE IT ALONE
Explanation: Did you plan this attack from the 'other' website? Are you serious with this alert? Hide Denied.

[Gothmog]

68. I agree with your analysis

[cali]

5. there's a reason why it's taboo. This thread is likely going

to get very ugly.

[kgnu_fan]

37. Taboo is where real meat is but nobody wants to open the can of worm - Israel

[cali]

44. That has been opened. not what I was referring to.

[Bread and Circus]

91. I think it has been a good discussion so far. Not ugly by GDP standards.

And a long overdue discussion.

[Bread and Circus]

102. Because it isn't just one core constituency. Go do some research. You might be surprised.

[Bread and Circus]

149. archive.adl.org/anti_semitism_domestic/ADL-2011-Anti-Semitism_Presentation.pdf

Proceed, governor.

[Hekate]

167. Try again. This pure shit stirring.

JURY: Poster is doubling down on claim that antisemitism among Democrats is behind Bernie's poor showing at the polls.

[Bread and Circus]

172. Did this thread get alerted? I didn't know that.

[Hekate]

174. I have no idea. I just generally add a note to any potential jury to avoid misunderstanding of....

....my own posts.

[trillion]

204. Thanks for the warning. I'm getting off the thread then.

I was giving DU the benefit of the doubt of not sinking to that.

[leftofcool]

8. I don't see anything like that in the Democratic Party

That is certainly not the reason Bernie is not winning with AA's or Latinos. No one gives a rat's hind end what his religion is, unless he is Muslim of course and born in Kenya.

[NWCorona]

118. I disagree. As a black man who grew up in the black

church. The fact that Bernie isn't a Christian is an issue. There's also a trust issue between the two communities that is pretty stupid when you look at the similarities between the two. That's just my opinion

[elleng]

141. Very interesting

and not surprising, upon thought.

I've expected 'it' to be a big issue.

[Hekate]

170. Interesting &sad, because a lot of the "white people" who went down South in Freedom Summer....

....and otherwise engaged in the Civil Rights movement were LIKE THE YOUNG SANDERS HIMSELF, Jewish.

But as we have seen with Huerta, Lewis, and Clyburn -- if you were not born then, I guess it did not happen and has no relevance now.

[Arazi]

241. Welcome to DU!

[NWCorona]

244. Thanks!

[ecstatic]

277. I disagree. Bernie is a white man

as far as most non-whites are concerned. There is no trust issue between black christians and jews. Welcome to DU though.

[NWCorona]

281. I'm not saying all blacks and thanks!

[ecstatic]

287. Not all? Try very few, if any. I've never heard anyone make

anti-Semitic comments. Antisemitism in this country comes mostly from white racists.

[NWCorona]

291. Food for thought

http://nymag.com/news/features/47165/index5.html

[nadinbrzezinski]

321. Yup,

the relationship between the two communities is ahem complicated

[TexasMommaWithAHat]

175. Read this article and think again

https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/volokh-conspiracy/wp/2014/02/19/entrenched-anti-semitic-views-very-rare-among-whites-and-asian-americans-common-among-blacks-and-latinos/

[sufrommich]

9. What " core constituency" in the Democratic party

is anti semitic?

[cali]

10. I don't think the op said that

[dsc]

11. oh we know which one the OP means

[cali]

12. The op means, I am assuming, that

there is a higher rate of anti-semitism in the AA community than in the larger community. This isn't exactly news. The relationship between American Jews and African Americans is a complex.one.

[Skid Rogue]

23. Maybe,

but 3/4 of my friends and colleagues are African American and we talk politics all the time. I haven't heard ANY veiled antisemitism toward Sanders. I haven't even heard it from the few crazy individuals I would expect to hear it from. His religion is just not a big issue yet. If he wins the Primary, it'll be the religious-right that hits him with it.

[George II]

42. I don't think that's the case at all. That is a false generalization.

[JustAnotherGen]

177. +1

[uponit7771]

62. The establishments temper tantrum will continue until the marginalized vote with them

[uponit7771]

69. Or... maybe we don't like people who associates their campaigns with those who call the first black

... president "n-word-izzed"

ever thought about that?

Jus sayin, this post is offensive and thoughtless at the same time

[kath]

71. FWIW, I remember the "Hymie town" comment too.

[vdogg]

301. I don't see anyone in here

Supporting Jesse Jackson. Why is this man continually trotted out as someone who speaks for black people?

[Skid Rogue]

13. Anti-semitism is probably there... a little bit... it would have to be.

It's not something I've heard expressed yet, not even in Alabama, though. If he wins the Primaries, it'll become much more of an issue, but that should not deter a single Democrat from voting for him. I'd be so proud to elect the first Jewish President. I'm sure a lot of other Hillary supporters feel the same way.

[Spazito]

14. Which core constituencies are you referencing? n/t

[kstewart33]

15. BC, is Bernie a practicing Jew?

I've never seen/read Bernie talk about his Jewish religion.

Isn't Bernie an atheist?

[cali]

17. Really? Allow me of o help you understand this widely know fact

Jewish identity is not dependent on practicing Judaism.

[kstewart33]

21. No thanks. I asked for an answer to my question, not condescending snark. nt

[cali]

25. Your question is fundamentally and fatally flawed. I explained why.

This ain't rocket science

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jewish_identity

[Gothmog]

72. Many Jews are supporting Clinton over Sanders

Most of the members of my congregation are supporting Clinton. They are scared of Trump even though Trump's daughter is a convert and keeps kosher and shamor shabbat

[JudyM]

242. Ok they are not, then, basing their vote on any candidate's religion.

[Krytan11c]

20. It's not really about religion

This is pretty common knowledge. Anti-semitism is racism. Period. Full Stop.

[MADem]

100. I don't think he practices. I know he doesn't practice dietary laws, but that doesn't mean much.

His favorite dinner at that diner in Burlington owned by his old pal is the pork chops.

Who cares what his religion is? Maybe he does it on occasion, shows up for the major events, and leaves it be most of the year--agnostic, perhaps. Or maybe he's one of those "spiritual" types. Or maybe he's an atheist. I think the kibbutz he worked at during his post university foray was atheistic, but I don't know that for an absolute certainty.

No one cares, really. I will bet that most people couldn't accurately name the church affiliation of most of the candidates running for the Presidency during this election cycle--we might be able to pick out the "Christians" because I think most of 'em are that, but there are lotsa flavors of that, and I don't think too many people could start naming churches on a bet.

[kstewart33]

113. Thanks for answering my question.

I don't give a hoot about Bernie's religion except in one respect: how much damage the Repubs will do to Bernie's campaign if he gets the nomination. They will spread the word quietly, never publicly of course, in those places where being Jewish loses votes.

[Hekate]

311. Neither does my husband. He's a Buddhist if anything. But he will ALWAYS be Jewish.

And apropos of another comment I made about the Left and the Far Left: it was my husband who clued me in about the anti-Semitism that lurks there, after I was so gobsmacked by the slogans and speeches of one of the major groups sponsoring the March on Washington I attended during the BushCheney era.

[mikehiggins]

130. No. Sanders is not an atheist which means holding a total disbelief in the existence

of God, a.k.a. a Higher Power.

What Sanders does maintain is that we are all in this together and it would be a good idea if we followed that Golden Rule thingee, do onto others as we would have others do unto us.

So, IIRC, Sanders doesn't address the issue of whether God is male or female, wears a gold earring like a pirate, or will help you win the lottery if you sacrifice your first born son in a holocaust.

What he basically says, again IIRC, it that we have a lot to do right here on earth to live up to the teachings of EVERY religion on earth.

And, yeah, he is a Jew (from Brooklyn no less) and yeah I do think his being Jewish is not exactly appealing to some in THIS party, let alone the proto-fascists worshipping Trump the Chump.

[mmonk]

16. I've noticed. JFK faced many of the same issues

as a Catholic running for president and Obama as the first AA to make it as far into the primaries until it also became evident. Welcome to America.

[Bread and Circus]

83. It is interesting many people here are acting all of a sudden that...

Race and religion have nothing to do with politics.

Interesting that now all of a sudden we are in a post racial post religious bigoted society.

Funny that.

[Hekate]

312. You just really want to make this an issue, don't you. Nobody is pretending any such thing.

Funny that.

[nadinbrzezinski]

327. Agreed, this is somewhat akin to JFK

[bigwillq]

18. I don't see that being a factor

So far in folks' decision not to support Mr. Sanders. Be it Rs or Ds

[DCBob]

19. Nonsense.

I suspect most don't even know he is Jewish.

[melman]

64. Don't even know?

Yeah right! On what planet?

[NuclearDem]

22. And here we go.

[Autumn]

24. I believe it is a factor, a strong factor.

I have two Aunts in their 80's. One was born in Mexico the other was the baby born here in America. When the eldest found out I and my brother are supporting Bernie she was horrified. I was shocked at the anti semitism from them.

[cali]

26. Thanks, Autumn. Hard to know how much of a factor it is

[Autumn]

27. It's very hard to know or even figure out how much a factor, I just know from my experience

with the elder Hispanic members of my family.

[Agschmid]

54. It is, I agree on this.

[Agschmid]

53. I agree that there are some people who are NOT supporting him for this reason.

I do feel that it's not a large issue, and that there isn't a large contingent of people who feel this way. Most democrats I know (I'm in the northeast) are NOT religious whatsoever and this kind of thing doesn't even cross my mind.

I've never practiced any religion whatsoever.

[still_one]

28. Are you Jewish? I am Jew, and the OP all wet. I am not going to even dignify this flame bait

except to say that here are the Democratic Congress people who are Jewish:

Senate Jewish Democrats

Michael Bennet
Richard Blumenthal
Barbara Boxer
Benjamin Cardin
Dianne Feinstein
Al Franken
Brian Schatz
Bernard Sanders
Charles Schumer
Ron Wyden

House Jewish Democrats

David Cicilline
Stephen Cohen
Susan Davis
Ted Deutch
Eliot Engel
Lois Frankel
Alan Grayson
Steve Israel
Sander Levin
Alan Lowenthal
Nita Lowey
Jerrold Nadler
Jared Polis
Jan Schakowsky
Adam Schiff
Brad Sherman
Debbie Wassermann Schultz
John Yarmuth

There is only ONE republican Jewish Congress person:
Lee Zeldin



Of the population in the U.S. 1.9% are Jewish

70.6% are of the Christian faith

Other faiths are 1.5%

http://www.pewforum.org/religious-landscape-study/

[Ellipsis]

31. For second there I thought I read Led Zepplin.

The attempted polarization of this board is indeed disturbing.


It reminds me of our lovely given governor's statement about Divide and Conquer.

[still_one]

32. I just corrected. That is the ONLY republican person in Congress who is Jewish. All the others are

Democrats. Which also invalids the OP

I also agree with your assessment that this OP is purely to divide

[Ellipsis]

33. Ethnicity or race matters not to me or really even party

It's message (Sincere message) and truly representing your constituency.

And I agree with you.

[still_one]

38. +++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++

[Hekate]

234. Thank for this, still one. Gods forbid Bernie could just fail in his attempt at the presidency...

...all by himself.

Bernie's campaign -- that is his followers -- is the most divisive that I have ever seen in the Democratic Party. Well maybe when we ended up with Richard Nixon.

[still_one]

239. It is easy to blame someone or something else for our defeciencies, but this really takes the cake

"The Democratic party is anti-Jewish"

[JudyM]

250. You have some reading to do, my friend. There is data from multiple sources. And mentioned in this

thread if you care to read others' posts. Nice world you live in where only republicans are anti-Semites.

[still_one]

268. excuse me, maybe YOU have some reading to do. WHERE did I say that republicans are the ONLY

ones who are anti Jewish? In fact I NEVER MENTIONED the republicans or Democrats in my post as being anti Jewish or NOT

What I DID MENTION was that:

1. I am Jewish
2. The majority of Jews that are in Congress are Democrats.
3. That based on the population percentage of American Jews, which is 1.9% verses other other religions, they are represented quite well in Congress, and are respected by their peers

That was my main point, and first response to the OP.

My second reply was a sarcasm blaming deficiencies on some straw man

So please don't tell what I said. I know exactly what I said, and I know what I meant

[Hekate]

276. They are really going to run with this one, aren't they?

Unbannable Words fail me, so I will go with the ever helpful smilie assortment.

[still_one]

280. It appears that way.

[nadinbrzezinski]

323. And I am a Jew too

and this is a factor, how much of a factor is a good question. I think when the history is written, it will be like Kennedy in the sense that voting for a Catholic was a huge deal.

It is an 800 pound gorilla that we need to actually face in the whole conversation of race.

By the way, this is not limited to minorities either. And it is divided between new forms and old form of antisemitism.

[Jefferson23]

29. It is likely to be true to an extent, how one measures that percent is where it gets tricky.

Bigotry is found in both parties, and with that said, I haven't seen any evidence
that anti-semitic views toward Bernie currently are hurting him in great percentage
points. I believe he will survive any such foolish and stupid attacks should they
increase and or become more blatant.

[Renew Deal]

30. The first person I've heard say "America is not ready for a jewish President" is you

I haven't heard or seen that anywhere else.

[Bread and Circus]

93. I have read that here. Also how many Jewish Presidents have we had? Duh.

[JudyM]

252. There's data, just google.

[MoonRiver]

34. So, the only evidence you have of this is that Bernie is losing.

Meh. Democrats are not anti-Semitic. They would be Republicans if they were.

I also want to add that my husband is Jewish. He is as staunch of a Hillary supporter as me.

[panader0]

35. My dad was staunch Democrat--he was also anti-semitic

I heard him use the Kword and the Nword several times. He wouldn't do it front of my mom though.
I'm sure he would have known that Bernie was Jewish.

[wildeyed]

194. Hmmm.....

Would he have noticed that Obama is black? Or Hillary is a woman?

What is your point?

[rock]

36. Sorry

I might allow you 8lb, but no more.

[Bread and Circus]

94. Well at least that's a bit of recognition.

[COLGATE4]

39. One thing I do know -

if Bernie turns out to be our nominee you can expect every Lee Atwater wannabe in the Rethugs' dirty tricks gang to make sure every state (particularly those in the deep South) hears all about that 'Democrat Jew Communist' candidate.

[Bread and Circus]

96. I pointed this thinking out elsewhere in the thread... this notion that...

It is ok to infer Republicans are anti-semitic but not ok to point this out among Democrats. Hmm. I find that conveniently ignorant and some of the research I have read suggests the opposite.

[LanternWaste]

115. You should then supply us with this objective, peer-reviewed research supporting your premise.

You should then supply us with this objective, peer-reviewed research supporting your premise.

(try not to confuse "infer" and "imply"-- they are opposites, like "throw" and "catch&quot

[mikehiggins]

135. Heh. A lot of them don't like Masons either. Haters gotta hate. eom

[COLGATE4]

137. Well, it's because they really know

that we're the Illuminati...

[Bucky]

40. I get no sense of that at all. I'm pro-Bernie & Clinton is pissing me off a bit. But antisemitism?

Nope, it just ain't there.

[George II]

41. I haven't seen a single post, here on DU or anywhere else, that even mentions that Sanders....

....is Jewish or that his being Jewish is a concern to anyone.

There are a lot more reasons to either vote for or vote against Sanders, and his being Jewish isn't one of them.

If you've read "numerous sources" to "suggest" that anti-Semitism is a factor in the Democratic Party, why not cite a few of them? I suspect this is a pre-emptive strike to rationalize why Sanders won't get the nomination.

[cali]

45. Oh, there have been several bluntly anti-semitic posts from Hill

supporters here. Surprisingly, most came early on.

[George II]

47. I haven't seen any. In fact, I've seen people go out of their way to discuss issues themselves....

....and totally ignoring anything about Sanders' heritage.

It's something that Democrats/progressives/liberals almost universally know is not a factor in assessing any candidate's capabilities.

[George II]

127. I find it very interesting that the accusations of "anti-Semitism" aren't addressed in the threads..

...where such anti-Semitism presumably exists, but are discussed in other threads.

Wouldn't it make sense to discuss them where they exist?

[Hekate]

238. Cali, that is slander. This is a new low.

JURY: poster claims HRC DUers posted "several bluntly anti-Semitic posts " early in the campaign. This is seriously divisive, and without links serves no good purpose.

[vdogg]

302. Also interesting

Is the post calling Cali out on his/her billshit gets a hide.

[Hekate]

306. Interesting is certainly one word for it.....

which is why I pre-emptively add a note to a potential Jury in case my own words might be ......misinterpreted

[Bread and Circus]

88. I have. Not a lot. But I have.

[wildeyed]

224. Great! Let's see them!

That would be a big help! TIA!

[Hekate]

240. Do you have some links?

[Warren DeMontague]

161. please stop with the Christiansplaining, to us Jewish folks.

We know it and see it, even if you don't.

[LiberalArkie]

184. Results :

On Mon Feb 22, 2016, 06:05 PM an alert was sent on the following post:

please stop with the Christiansplaining, to us Jewish folks.
http://www.democraticunderground.com/?com=view_post&forum=1251&pid=1310893

REASON FOR ALERT

This post is disruptive, hurtful, rude, insensitive, over-the-top, or otherwise inappropriate.

ALERTER'S COMMENTS

Pretty offensive comment and personal attack, particularly since the poster knows nothing about the background of the person he is talking to.

The poster should come up with something specific, not non-specific insults like "Christiansplaining".

This entire thread should be hidden or locked as disruptive meta-discussion.

You served on a randomly-selected Jury of DU members which reviewed this post. The review was completed at Mon Feb 22, 2016, 06:10 PM, and the Jury voted 1-6 to LEAVE IT.

Juror #1 voted to LEAVE IT ALONE
Explanation: No explanation given
Juror #2 voted to LEAVE IT ALONE
Explanation: No explanation given
Juror #3 voted to LEAVE IT ALONE
Explanation: No explanation given
Juror #4 voted to LEAVE IT ALONE
Explanation: No explanation given
Juror #5 voted to LEAVE IT ALONE
Explanation: No explanation given
Juror #6 voted to HIDE IT
Explanation: No explanation given
Juror #7 voted to LEAVE IT ALONE
Explanation: Give me a break. Unless you have alerted on (and you haven't) every other "splaining" comment it is quite hypocritical to alert on this one.

Thank you very much for participating in our Jury system, and we hope you will be able to participate again in the future.

[Warren DeMontague]

189. Ah, well.

were it not for Juror #6, someone would have no button privileges for a whole 24 hours.

It's okay #6, we're still buds.

[Live and Learn]

185. Believe it or not - jury results.

On Mon Feb 22, 2016, 06:05 PM an alert was sent on the following post:

please stop with the Christiansplaining, to us Jewish folks.
http://www.democraticunderground.com/?com=view_post&forum=1251&pid=1310893

REASON FOR ALERT

This post is disruptive, hurtful, rude, insensitive, over-the-top, or otherwise inappropriate.

ALERTER'S COMMENTS

Pretty offensive comment and personal attack, particularly since the poster knows nothing about the background of the person he is talking to.

The poster should come up with something specific, not non-specific insults like "Christiansplaining".

This entire thread should be hidden or locked as disruptive meta-discussion.

You served on a randomly-selected Jury of DU members which reviewed this post. The review was completed at Mon Feb 22, 2016, 06:10 PM, and the Jury voted 1-6 to LEAVE IT.

Juror #1 voted to LEAVE IT ALONE
Explanation: No explanation given
Juror #2 voted to LEAVE IT ALONE
Explanation: No explanation given
Juror #3 voted to LEAVE IT ALONE
Explanation: No explanation given
Juror #4 voted to LEAVE IT ALONE
Explanation: No explanation given
Juror #5 voted to LEAVE IT ALONE
Explanation: No explanation given
Juror #6 voted to HIDE IT
Explanation: No explanation given
Juror #7 voted to LEAVE IT ALONE
Explanation: Give me a break. Unless you have alerted on (and you haven't) every other "splaining" comment it is quite

[Warren DeMontague]

188. Oooh

I suspect I hit a nerve.

[Behind the Aegis]

297. I know you are already aware of this...

[Warren DeMontague]

299. Aw, man.

Now there's an endorsement that I think carries a lot of weight.

[JudyM]

254. I have seen this and there have been posts on DU. Just keep your eyes open, we have nothing to

prove. Google is your friend, as well.

[firebrand80]

43. "certain core constituencies??"

Care to be more specific?

[NuclearDem]

49. African Americans.

The way they're going to try to explain Sanders losing the African American vote is not by ineffective outreach, continued shots from surrogates and supporters at prominent civil rights leaders and members of the community, or how his policies will affect HBCUs, but because black people just don't like Jews.

Just breaking it down for everyone.

[firebrand80]

52. There must be *some* explanation

That makes it not Bernie's fault

[Bread and Circus]

82. I am trying to figure out why there is a huge disparity between the constiuentuents among Democrats.

Given that I don't believe in magical explanations I am trying to find real ones.

[Bread and Circus]

89. No.

[geek tragedy]

90. then spell out exactly what you're suggesting with this OP, and why you hid behind the code language

"core constituencies" instead of having the gumption to say "black people."

[wildeyed]

212. Waiting......

:tapsfoot: :looksatwatch:

[bettyellen]

206. so you deem explanations POC here at DU give as "magical"? How so?

[Quayblue]

76. that's lovely

[Dem2]

231. I did detect this in the O/P

Somewhat speechless now...

[JudyM]

255. You know what, don't declare anti semitism absent and play it as an excuse because that can be

read as... Shall we say not open minded. The facts are out there whether you care to see them or not.

[NuclearDem]

259. Bernie Sanders isn't losing by double digits in South Carolina because of antisemitism.

This is just another attempt to make Sanders' failings not actually his fault.

[JudyM]

272. No actually it's not. But you can't hear that possibility so I'll let this go.

[Hekate]

308. Eric Cantor was sent to the US House from Virginia, and it's also in the South...

Of course he's deeply conservative and ultimately lost to a Tea Partier, but I'm really not going with anti-Semitism in his case.

Or Bernie's. He comes off as crusty old white guy who'll yell at you, more than anything else.

[speaktruthtopower]

48. Maybe to some extent

but they may also see him as lacking experience with their issues coming from Vermont.

[geek tragedy]

50. "certain core constituencies within it, are not ready for a jewish President. "

Which core constituencies?

Very cowardly to make that kind of inflammatory accusation against a core constituency without describing whom they're talking about.

[wildeyed]

55. "Core constituencies"?

Hmmmm... Please be more specific. Which core constituencies do you speak of? Which "people" often say that America is not ready? Because I have not heard that said, and if it IS being said, I would like to go give those "people" a piece of my mind.

What, exactly, have you been reading that suggests any of this? Please post a link to your sources so we can evealuate them for ourselves.

If you won't do these things, then it is impossible to have an "honest discussion" about this issue.

You will find no mainstream leaders of ANY core Democratic constituency who speak ill of Jews. Jews are the second most loyal Democratic constituency, after Blacks.

Anyone saying otherwise is simply trying to drive a wedge between solid allies

[wildeyed]

122. Cowardly is right.

Say the word that you mean and post the links or go home

[Hekate]

315. Over 300 posts and haven't seen the links yet. Must scrutinize more closely....

Yeah.

[wildeyed]

318. Gaaahhhh!!!!!

You're kicking this mess again! If they start equivocating and blowing whistles again, you're up to bat tonight!


People are saying.... you know.... about *those* people.... :winkwinkwink:

[Hekate]

322. ooooo, so sorry

my bad

[nashville_brook]

57. from Nevada caucus, Hillary supporters: "don't vote for the SOCIALIST JEW"

At Precinct 3361 in Las Vegas during the Nevada Caucuses on February 20th, Hillary supporters don't allow Bernie supporters to speak and kick them out of the room and the Hillary Precinct Captain calls Bernie a "Socialist Jew."

[wildeyed]

120. That video is a load....

The caucus passed a motion to only let NV voters speak. That's valid. The people are not from that state. And trust me, it was because they were wasting time. If you ever spent a large amount in those type of meetings, you know how important it is to limit speaking times....

ONE person made a horrible racist remark (not even on video) and the entire caucus got mad and voted to make them shut up. What's the problem?

[TheFarS1de]

142. ONE person made a horrible racist remark (not even on video) ....

But that is enough too damn Sanders when someone supposedly screamed out "English only" ...... consistency is key to not appearing as a opportunistic race baiter .

[wildeyed]

148. I did not participate in that conversation.

Whatever was going on, it was rude to yell at her, but I never could tell what was being said. But whatever..... At least that had some proof. If the accusation was incorrect, then it appears that came out. Great.

This poster is making serious, broad brush accusations without any links and then demanding that people prove that is NOT true. WTF? They know it can't be done. You should too. It is just ugly.

[nashville_brook]

165. +100000

[jillan]

60. I was actually thinking that every time they cry sexism

I'm going to start screaming anti-semitism

[geek tragedy]

61. so you're willing to falsely accuse people of ant-Jewish bigotry nt

[jillan]

63. it's as silly as falsely accusing people of sexism

Isn't it? Or racism when there is none. Really no difference

[geek tragedy]

65. some accusations of sexism have merit, others don't

but threatening to use unsubstantiated accusations of anti-Semitism as a political weapon indicates you don't take it very seriously as a problem and are in fact willing to trivialize it as a concern in order to score points in an election

[jillan]

66. Calling Bernie a "crusty old Jew" or having a precinct capt in NV say the #1 reason to not vote

for Bernie is because he is a Socialist Jew are just 2 examples of anti-semitism.

The first one was a post right here on this Democratic website.

It is not trivial, and I am sick of it.

ETA - as a woman, I am also sick of being called a sexist for not supporting Hillary.
And as someone that is 1/4 Latino, I am also sick of being called a racist for commenting on Huerta's comments.

[geek tragedy]

73. oh my, one person inartfully describing how Republicans will portray him and a precinct captain

in NV

[Bread and Circus]

79. I don't understand..Republicans are anti-semitic but Democrats aren't?

So it will be a factor in the General Election but not in the Primary?

[geek tragedy]

80. Pay much attention to how Jews vote in elections?

Hint: not for Republicans.

Also, the Christianist identity party isn't a real welcoming place for Jews.

You could also count the number of Jews Republicans have sent to Congress vs the number of Democratic Jews in Congress.

[Bread and Circus]

86. Do you know there is research to show that entrenched anti-semitism

May actually be quite low in evangelical whites?

[geek tragedy]

87. how many Jewish Republicans are there in Congress? Your agenda seems to be that of the

neocon assholes who try to claim that Democrats hate Jews and that Jews should vote Republican.

To the point you're now arguing that Democrats are less friendly to Jews than evangelical Christians.

two words: Steve Cohen.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Steve_Cohen

Won overwhelmingly--and keeps on winning-- in a majority black district despite being Jew-baited within an inch of his life by the Ford family and local ministers.

[Bread and Circus]

97. You can't prove or disprove things with just anecdotes.

[Bread and Circus]

106. Go google it for yourself. Tell me what you find.

[geek tragedy]

107. you are the one making the claims. And you are refusing to provide any facts

to support your own claims.

It is BAD FAITH to make claims and then to snottily tell people "google it"

it is not our job to make your argument for you

[Bread and Circus]

109. You are the one being personally insulting to me. Just google it. Prove me wrong.

[LanternWaste]

132. You continue to state you've been doing your own research to support your allegation

You continue to state you've been doing your own research to support your allegation. Is there a precise and relevant reason you are unable/unwilling to provide us with it?

Or (and I find this a wee bit more likely) is your 'research' (should it exist at all) merely a collection of anecdotes and editorials, culled and collated to better validate your own biases (which isn't really research at all-- but rather a scrapbook put together by a fanboy).

[wildeyed]

126. Since you already did, and YOU made the OP,

then YOU post the links. It is on YOU to post proof of whatever accusation you are making. We do not have to prove a negative. No.

[Bread and Circus]

133. I asked in the OP for links to suggest I am wrong. That's what my OP was for. So far I haven't seen

...one link or article to show what I fear is incorrect.

I am looking for someone, somewhere to show me that anti-semitic bigotry is not a common belief in certain core Democratic constituencies.

However, there is research to show this is the case. But rather than post something that might be false, I am looking for people to educate me that what I am reading looks false.

So far, I have got nothing but a bunch of personal opinions and anecdotes that prove nothing.

As I have said if you think I am wrong please show me that what I am asking about is wrong.

If you don't or can't then just admit it.

And if this is unclear to you, read my OP a few more times and you will see I specifically ask for people to dissuade me from what I am reading.

Perhaps my sources are wrong.

[wildeyed]

147. Because the burden of proof lies with someone who is making a claim,

and is not upon anyone else to disprove.

https://yourlogicalfallacyis.com/burden-of-proof

Example: Bertrand declares that a teapot is, at this very moment, in orbit around the Sun between the Earth and Mars, and that because no one can prove him wrong, his claim is therefore a valid one.

Example: Bread and Circus declares that "People (which people said this, exactly?) often say "maybe the Democratic Party, or at least certain core constituencies (which ones, exactly? do tell) within it, are not ready for a jewish President." "I would appreciate any counter evidence that would refute what I am reading"

If you are right, then show me the proof. It is not incumbent on me to prove that your bitter and divisive musings are wrong, any more than I must prove that a teapot is now in orbit around the sun.

[Bread and Circus]

151. archive.adl.org/anti_semitism_domestic/ADL-2011-Anti-Semitism_Presentation.pdf

Now, you were to tell me that 30% of white people are prejudiced against blacks and then I told you that would have nothing to do with "how white people vote" you would say I am crazy.

And you would be correct.

So, you asked for it, now you have it.

Don't say you weren't warned.

[wildeyed]

154. As opposed to what?

Who are you talking about? That is a BIG report. What data are you referring to and how does that back up your previous claim?

[Bread and Circus]

156. Now you are just too lazy to read. It's a bunch of graphs. If you are too lazy to look through them

then that's your problem, not mine.

[wildeyed]

160. No.

I read it all. It's your problem that you are too chicken to come out and say what you actually mean. I can't read your mind. Why is this so hard for you?

[Bread and Circus]

169. Shrug all you want. It doesn't change anything.

[wildeyed]

191. You're right, it doesn't.

Last edited Mon Feb 22, 2016, 07:47 PM - Edit history (1)

You still won't answer the question.

Core constituency. Which one are you referring too? Say it.

[JudyM]

262. This is odd logic... The fact that Jews are Dems and rethugs are however they are doesn't have any

bearing on whether there are more than a few antisemites among nonjewish Dems.

[wildeyed]

121. The precinct captain was shouted down.

Dunno about the crusty remark. But two isolated incidents? Really?

[Autumn]

145. The "Sander's is an old crusty "jew" remark here on DU was hidden by a jury.

There have been more than two isolated incidents though.

[wildeyed]

150. Great.

I would vote to hide that mess too. That is racist and has no place in civil conversation. And please note, the comment was HIDDEN. As it should have been. Good work, jury!

[Autumn]

162. Rest assured, I and others noted the jury hid it.

[wildeyed]

163. Good.

I would too. Anyone says that trash, either side, I vote to hide too. Racism is not ok. Antisemitism is not ok. Sexism is not ok. Not ever.

[wildeyed]

180. I am rested

and very assured

[JudyM]

258. You go, girl!!

[Gothmog]

67. As a Jew, I do not see anti-semitism playing any role on the Democratic side

I am supporting Hillary Clinton because she is the most qualified candidate in the race. Sanders' religion plays no role in my support of Clinton. The concept that religion is playing a role on the democratic side is false.

[Bread and Circus]

70. And you know it is false how? Because you don't personally see it?

[Gothmog]

74. I have heard many Jews supporting Clinton over Sanders at the Mens Service Auxillary and Temple

Jews tend to discuss politics a great deal. From my conversations, the majority of the Jews I talk to at Temple or meeting of the men's service auxillary are supporting Clinton over Sanders. Since this Texas, there are also a number of my friends who supporting Trump and these outliers may out number the Sanders supporters.

[Quayblue]

75. or it's possible these "core constituents" don't agree with the message(s)

of Senator Sanders.

[Bread and Circus]

77. That is absolutely one of many possible explanations.

[Quayblue]

119. lol nt

[Erich Bloodaxe BSN]

78. I'm thinking they're in 'why bother' mode.

As in 'Why bother to air your anti-semitic ideas if you think he's going to lose anyway?'

Wait til late March when he starts picking up state after state. THEN you'll see more such attacks pop up.

[geek tragedy]

92. who will be making such attacks? Hillary Clinton

has very deep, important and public ties to the Jewish community. You really think she'd go down that road?

If not her and her campaign, please tell the class who in the Democratic party dislikes Jews and will Jew-bait Bernie Sanders if he wins states.

[Depaysement]

98. Probably not

I mentioned anti-semitism in a post a while back. Now I don't buy it. There really isn't any evidence of it.

Much more prevalent is the "socialist" label. Hillary is just using race to deflect the populist and class outrage fueling Bernie's campaign. It is working well with African-Americans and racially dividing the vote. Using gender isn't working as well.

Hillary's campaign is gloating about the impending victory in South Carolina. That's ridiculous. It's a southern state that the top of the ticket won't win in the fall. The "Big Win" will be powered by an electorate dominated by one constituency favorable to her so far, a constituency who will vote Democratic no matter who the nominee is.

[Agnosticsherbet]

103. Anti-semitism?

I don't recall seeing anyone say Sander is losing because he is Jewish, or people won't vote for him because he is Jewish.

(You will find that the Republican side.)

[Waiting For Everyman]

104. That, and the "old white guy" prejudice.

Some people just can't be objective.

[geek tragedy]

108. so, Bernie Sanders is a victim of reverse racism and oppression at the hands of black people

and Latinos?

[Cali_Democrat]

110. "old white guy" prejudice?

What's that?

Aren't most people in Congress white males?

Haven't the majority of Presidents been white males? 43/44?

What are you talking about?

[wildeyed]

225. ....

OMG, those poor people!

[Hekate]

309. I know! It's so sad how they've suffered! All these centuries, moving the levers of power. Oh my.

Last edited Tue Feb 23, 2016, 07:10 PM - Edit history (1)

JURY:
I am referring to "old white guys," not Zionist garbage. Just so you know, this is in reference to the two previous posts.

[moondust]

111. Is Louis Farrakhan popular amywhere?

I never hear anything about him but I'm not plugged into everyplace. He has a nasty history of antisemitism including blaming the Jews for 9/11 and control of the media. I don't know if anybody listens to him or if his past ravings have had any influence particularly on black voters.

[wildeyed]

123. Not out campaigning with Democrats,

that's for sure.

[Beacool]

112. Is that the new meme?

According to some here, Hillary is only winning votes through cheating and stupid women who vote their vaginas. We have all read those posts already. Is the new meme that some people are not voting for Sanders because he's Jewish???? Care to provide any proof?

[NCTraveler]

114. Nobody wants to talk about?

https://www.google.com/search?q=anti-semitism&sitesearch=democraticunderground.com&gws_rd=ssl

Or have you been missing the conversation?

[Freddie Stubbs]

116. Yeah, he would definitley be running away with it if he was a lapsed Catholic

[wildeyed]

125. Or black or female.

Truth is, if he was nominated, that would be historic too. The Dems are doing an AMAZING job of promoting talent, regardless of gender, race or religion. Let's not fall to eating our own over this now. Because when we do that, the real bad guys win.

Oldest trick in the book, divide and conquer.

[Skid Rogue]

192. ^^^^what you said^^^^

[zappaman]

124. bullshit.

[JI7]

128. Maybe but there are jewish elected officials . we can see what percentage of support they got from

Different groups.

Gore with lieberman on the ticket did very well with black voters.

[6chars]

129. this thread is interesting and illuminating

[Behind the Aegis]

140. Yes it is.

Right funny in some respects, from "well, I've never seen it! So it must not exist!" to "Well, I know lots of Jews (am Jewish) and it isn't true (with no evidence)." We are expected to discuss the various issues other minority groups have in regards to racism or sexism, but when some groups are asked to examine their issues with other minority groups it's "off limits."

The anti-Semitism I have seen here in regards to Sanders has been minimal, but if he becomes the nominee, it will increase and not just from the right. The idea so many spout the "No True Scotsman" fallacy of "democrats can't be anti-Semites" is astonishing. They can be and some certainly are; just like some are homophobes, transphobes, misogynists, and yes, racists.

That said, I don't like the nature of the OP for a very simple reason, it is implying a conclusion without all the facts. While it is factual AA are more likely to be anti-Semitic than whites and Latinos, who are also more anti-Semitic than whites, in general, (the article with this information has been posted a few times up above), it is irresponsible to draw the conclusion the reason AA and Latinos aren't supporting Sanders is because of anti-Semitism. Are some withholding support because he is Jew? Possibly. However, one can't claim it as fact because there is no proof. This is, IMO, in the same vein of "Blacks are only supporting Clinton because of "name recognition." and other such tropes. It is disrespectful to the African-American community to claim they are unable to understand the political process and therefore, only chooses candidates because of their name recognition or because someone isn't the "correct" religion. It is as bad as saying Jews have to support Sanders because he is Jewish or women have to support Clinton because she is a woman. Minority groups get lots of crap, and yes, Jews are a minority (something a few here find debatable), but we shouldn't be attacking each other, and instead need to be building bridges to one another.

In the Oppression Olympics, the only winners are the oppressors!

[Bread and Circus]

143. Read my OP again. Read it carefully. No where did I "claim it as fact" that what I suggest...

might be happening may be true.

I left my OP purposefully vague because I want people to really think about this issue and the more vague I leave it the more of a Rorschach test it has become.

So I do appreciate your response but I think you need to walk back what you infer I am "claiming as fact" (your words).

I am just trying to raise a discussion.

While I will admit I have my concerns and fears that anti-semitism is a significant part of Sanders' electoral difficulties, I do not claim it as fact.

What seems to be a fact is that anti-semitism is a hell of a lot more common in the Democratic Party than we would like to think.

If that is not alarming and worthy of discussion, then what is?

[Behind the Aegis]

144. IMO, your OP implies it.

I don't think anti-Semitism is a big factor in Sanders campaign...yet. Is there some? Fuck yes, and I too have seen it here! However, I don't think it is overwhelming or even minor, it is a blip so far.

What seems to be a fact is that anti-semitism is a hell of a lot more common in the Democratic Party than we would like to think.

On that, you won't get an argument from me...not ONE argument. It is also one form of bigotry which many try to ignore or claim "isn't real".

[Bread and Circus]

146. Why not "yet"?

I feel like there is this false belief that if we were to actually nominate Bernie it would "then" become a problem which implies non-Democrats are anti-Semitic but Democrats are not.

I find that a convenient untruth and really irritating because it springs from political bigotry.

I personally do think it's an issue now and will be an issue in the GE. Unlike many here in this thread, I don't believe Democrats are magically immune from being anti-Semitic.

[Behind the Aegis]

155. I just don't agree the issue is as pronounced now.

Trust me, I am well aware of anti-Semitism, in real life, online, and at DU. I have written about it for years (pop on down to the Jewish group). I am just not seeing a groundswell. I see it dotting the landscape from time to time in regards to Sanders (the Rehm interview, the Israeli nest egg comments, the he isn't a real Jew comments, the he isn't really a Zionist, and the list goes on), but, it has been beneath minor...at this point. It isn't a matter of it "then" will become a problem, it is simply a matter of the problem becoming more pronounced. I have been having this type of conversation with a good friend here at DU and we have both been watching the issue. I actually brought it up right after Sanders announced. This has been a topic in the Jewish community, and with some of the Jews here at DU for a long while now. However, even among Jews, you will find many people do not like to discuss anti-Semitism and will quickly change the subject.

As I have already said, you don't have to sell me on "some democrats are anti-Semites" as this is something I already know, so you are singing to the cantor, as it were.

I don't have an issue with you thinking this is an issue, I think we just disagree on the magnitude is all. Anti-Semitism is the shadow that is never far behind, and, sometimes, it is actually right in front of one's face.

[stevenleser]

210. I was curious to see if you would respond since if I am not mistaken you support Bernie.

As you know I am also very keen to look out for anti-Semitism, for folks who don't know, I know you know BtA, I am also Jewish and BtA and I have discussed issues of anti-semitism many times.

I also don't really see it as much of an issue in this campaign, yet.

In the polls of who would be an acceptable President, Jews poll about where African Americans do right now. Meaning if Barack Obama could win, a Jewish person could as well. That doesn't mean there aren't bigots who would say and do all kinds of stupid stuff as well.

I think you said it well. "it has been beneath minor...at this point"

[Behind the Aegis]

296. I haven't "picked a side". I have been accused/attacked for "supporting" both.

Just depends on the thread and the mood of the attacker.

I am more aghast...appalled...amused...bewildered...by the "concern" some people are having now in regards to anti-Semitism. I have the same feelings in regards to those who seem to 'look past' the few examples which have cropped up, and they have.

Have there been anti-Semitic attacks on Sanders? Yup. They just haven't been the primary or even minor reason in most cases. Should Sanders get the nomination, that will change.

[one_voice]

270. This is why I'm glad we're friends!

[Behind the Aegis]

294. I am glad too!

[TexasMommaWithAHat]

171. This article talks about anti-semitism in the Democratic Party

https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/volokh-conspiracy/wp/2014/02/19/entrenched-anti-semitic-views-very-rare-among-whites-and-asian-americans-common-among-blacks-and-latinos/

[wildeyed]

218. News from The Cato Institute!

Thanks

http://www.cato.org/people/david-bernstein

[wildeyed]

153. Illegal proof reversal!

15-yard penalty! Repeat first down! You might get a fine after the game for that one, too.

[Hekate]

310. You know, that is Donald Trump's favorite technique. "Is Marco eligible to run for president? ...

...I don't know, don't ask me. I really don't know. But somebody should look into it. Is Marco Rubio really eligible to run for president?"

Until yesterday when the words came out of the Trumpster's mouth, nobody had a single doubt about Marco Rubio's eligibility to run for president. But now it is in everybody's mind. The seeds have been sown.

And there stands Trump, looking like butter wouldn't melt in his mouth, "Oh hey, I was just asking a question." And you know he will keep asking that question.


JURY: I am drawing attention to a rhetorical technique much in use by the GOP front-runner. The OP employed it. In this post s/he describes it and its effects, and the purposeful vagueness. So I thought it would be useful to draw attention to it more directly.

[Bread and Circus]

314. Nearly 30% of Black people according to the research cited in the OP are bigoted against Jews.

30%....thirty....per...cent

thirty. per. cent.

3. 0. per. cent.

Oye vey!

To me, that's crazy high. Like off the wall crazy high.

I mean, if there was sound research that said 30% of white people don't like or trust black people I wouldn't be surprised (white on black prejudice is well known). So let's just say my hypothetical here is true.... 30% mind you. Nearly 1 out of 3.... So let's say that's true, and then I were to try to convince you that such a fact wouldn't prejudice them against a black nominee for President... you would rightfully say I was fucking crazy.

So here we are with ADL stats showing a 30% bias of bigotry of blacks against Jews (not saying they hate Jews...as there are different levels of bigotry) and there's absolutely no talk about how this could be affecting the "black vote" en bloc.

To me, that's crazy.

That's ignoring the 800lb Gorilla in the room.

So when I wrote the OP I was intentionally vague. I was and still am looking for someone to show me the evidence that ADL seems to indicate is wrong. I didn't want to say what, if true, is an ugly fact.

But to date the response is... nothing... nada...

Just a bunch of "I don't see it so it must not exist" bluster.

So no, this isn't really me making stuff up like Trump does.

30% <<< either that stat is correct or not. I am willing to look at research that disproves it.

30% <<< if that number is correct, then it is crazy not to see it as a factor in the "en bloc" electoral disposition of the African American electorate.

I think any thinking person has to consider this as a factor if the numbers put out by the ADL are true.

[Hekate]

316. You're asking me to download a pdf? No. Try another link.

Other than your one pdf from one source you got nada.

[Bread and Circus]

320. Wait...you spend all day on DU with 33,000 posts under your belt but taking 2 seconds to download...

...a PDF is beyond your skillset?

Seriously? WTF is wrong with you?

And I am supposed to take you seriously?

It's a PDF, it's 34 pages, it's from the Anti Defamation League (go to their website if you don't believe me).

It's a bunch of pretty graphs. It's not hard to read.

Go for it. It won't hurt you

====

But even if you wanna act ignorant of the research the PDF says 30% of African Americans are biased / bigoted against Jews.

That's what it says...in a huge pretty graph.

So...yeah you have no excuse.

And if you can't face reality then that's your problem if you want to hide your head in sand.

[Hekate]

324. I just got back from having a root canal, so I took time off from DU for that. Golly.

Also, I've been here since 2002, and there are others with fewer years here with 100,000+ posts. So I lose that contest.

Further, I know what pdfs do to my 10 year old computer. They load themselves into my computer and I don't get the option of reading them online. YMMV. I have reason to suspect stuff that loads without my permission.

So there you have it. I guess I'm just an awful person.

[Bread and Circus]

326. Not awful. But you can't contest an argument if you purposefully try to remain ignorant....

of the core fact of the argument.

All you seem to be doing is creating diversion around something you don't like and don't want to hear.

So...meh... I have to go AFK.

Happy reading and posting on your 10 year old computer that apparently can't handle pdf's even though pdf's came out in 1993.

I have to laugh at that.

You aren't fooling anybody.

[JustAnotherGen]

181. Well said and knocks the hat off of someone n/t

[Hekate]

317. Well stated, Aegis.

Very rational.

[great white snark]

131. How does this baiting stay while innocuous posts from "core constituencies" get hidden?

Trash this bullshit please.

[Bread and Circus]

134. Discussing anti-semitism, which is very much a real and destructive thing, is race baiting?

[wildeyed]

157. Hmmm.....

Wonder why?

I know! Prove that the hides on "core constituencies" are NOT because latent racism among other certain constituencies. Prove that this is not happening, because I have been wondering about that and I saw something on the interwebs from 2011 that may or may not prove a point, but not going to say which point because secret :shhhh: But people are saying this, and we should discuss this 800 lb gorilla, that's all I know......

[rhett o rick]

138. Interesting that some here that have no problems with accusations of sexism or racism

seem to get very upset if we talk about anti-semitism. Instead of putting up an argument they want to lock/hide the discussion.

[Bread and Circus]

139. Funny how that works.

[wildeyed]

152. When they demand proof that it does NOT exist,

then yes, we get upset. Because you cannot prove a negative. A serious, broad brush accusation was made. That demands serious proof, otherwise it is just nasty and divisive talk.

You know who started the "people are saying" and "prove that it didn't happen"? That was Rove against Kerry. People are saying that you are not a war hero, you are a coward. Now prove that you aren't a coward.

I call bullshit.

[rhett o rick]

168. This is a message board where we discuss these issues. But it seems that some discussions are off

limits. It is ok to accuse Sanders or Sanders' supporters of racism or sexism, but heaven forbid that anyone brings up anti-semitism.

[wildeyed]

179. NO!

First, I never said it WAS ok to accuse anyone of any -ism without solid evidence. So dunno who you thought you were arguing with, but it was not me.

Second, the discussion of anti-Semitism is not off limits. What is off limits, or should be, is making vague, unsubstantiated accusations and then demanding proof that they are NOT true. And that is not actually off limits, apparently, since the OP is not hidden or locked.

What seems to be the thing that causes you consternation is anyone questioning the validity of said claims. It IS a political discussion board, as you so helpfully pointed out. So now the topic is being discussed. I am discussing the SHIT out of it. You should be happy.

[rhett o rick]

182. I have no problem with whatever "discussion" you wish to impart. What I don't

like is when people try to lock, hide, or shout down discussions because they don't fit their worldview. Whether or not accusations are "substantiated" usually depends on which side of the argument one is on.

[wildeyed]

186. Or if you understand logical fallacies.

Because you CANNOT substantiate a negative argument. No one can prove that "core constituencies" are not anti-semetic. Especially when the OP is refusing to actually name the "core constituencies".

https://yourlogicalfallacyis.com/burden-of-proof

Their premise is, by its nature, completely dishonest. And their implication is ugly and divisive.

[rhett o rick]

196. And when similar things were said about Sanders supporters you made the same

point I assume.

[wildeyed]

205. And we are going to switch the topic now.....

Sigh. See? This is why arguing around here these days can be so boring.... No legitimate debate to be had.

But yeah, if someone said that Sanders supporters had to prove that their, um, "core constituency" were NOT sexist and rude, I would say that No, they don't. Because it is on the person making the OP to prove their premise is true. That is basic. Why is this hard for you?

[rhett o rick]

247. It's not hard for me and your saying such ends this discussion. Sooner or later

you guys have to throw in the insults.

"The choice is stark, keep living under corporate rule under Hillary and watch things get worse, or go with Bernie and fight TPTB to regain our Representative Democracy!"

[wildeyed]

257. Drama, drama.....

"you guys"? Who dat?

I asked why it is hard for you to grasp the concept of a simple logical fallacy because you keep changing the topic, and now you change the it AGAIN to I dunno what. Some sort of rant about ????

What is the TPTB? What are you talking about? Are you sure that you don't mistake me for someone else?

[rhett o rick]

260. You guys that seem to worship at the alter of Goldman-Sachs.

"The choice is stark, keep living under corporate rule under Hillary and watch things get worse, or go with Bernie and fight TPTB to regain our Representative Democracy!"

[wildeyed]

266. Nope!

You def got me confused with someone else! I don't worship at the altar of a bank OR a politician. I'm good, thanks!

What is TPTB?

[Bread and Circus]

178. I showed you it does exist so buzz off.

[wildeyed]

190. No you didn't.

You waved your hand in the direction of some random survey done in 2011. Why won't you tell me what you mean? Why is it that you feel entitled to post this mess of divisive innuendo, but then absolutely REFUSE to say what you really mean.

Which "CORE CONSTITUENCY" are you referring to? That is a simple question. Why won't you answer?

This is an IMPORTANT topic! You said so yourself! People are saying that it is happening and we should all be VERY CONCERNED! And I am concerned by actual incidents of anti-semitism, make no mistake there.

So now you need to actually state your concerns. SAY IT OUT LOUD WHERE WE CAN HERE YOU. And if you are not willing to do that, then consider deleting your OP, because if you are too ashamed to say what you really mean, then that says everything we need to know right there.

[Bread and Circus]

193. I am sorry but your fake exhibit of willful ignorance does you no favors.

And if you really can't understand what I really mean then you need better reading comprehension.

Everyone else here seems to know "what I mean". Why not you?

If you think you are going to bait me into some grandstanding racist diatribe then you are wasting your breath. I know and you know that's what you are trying to do.

Give it a rest.

[wildeyed]

202. My reading comprehension is EXCELLENT.

That is your actual problem right now.

"Everyone else here seems to know "what I mean". Why not you?" Sorry, I guess I don't speak dog whistle well enough to keep up, since by your own admission, saying what you really mean would be a "racist diatribe".

Truly, I am not trying to bait you into anything. Just trying to make you HONESTLY say whatever it is you are saying. If you think it is too racist to say out loud, then don't say it AT ALL. And quit with the histrionics. This is a political message board. You post opinions like this one, be prepared to defend them. And if you can't, they you are the one who should consider giving it a rest.

[Bread and Circus]

207. There are facts in the link I gave you. You have responded with nothing. End of story.

Sorry if you don't like the facts.

[wildeyed]

209. You gave me no facts.

You gave me vague allusions to the existence of facts. NOT THE SAME THING.

Which group, EXACTLY, is the "core constituency" you refer to. Say it. Until you say it, you LOSE. We cannot even begin to have a real discussion until you answer that very basic question.

You know which group you refer to. You will not say. I can only conclude that you refuse to say it because you are too embarrassed. You must know you are wrong. Otherwise, why be so coy? Perhaps we need to be worried about more than just anti-semitism in the Democratic "core constituencies". Very sad

[Bread and Circus]

216. I presented you with data, you have responded with screaming.

[wildeyed]

222. Oh please.

No screaming. Just waiting. And waiting. And waiting............ What part of the "data" were you referring to. The link you posted (out of date BTW, 2011) is 34 pages long. What part of those 34 pages are you referring too?

Page 26? "Less educated Americans are more likely to hold anti-semetic views"?

Because the top finding for the survey was as follows:

Education remains a strong predictor of anti-Semitic propensities. The most well educated Americans are remarkably free of prejudicial views, while less educated Americans are more likely to hold anti-Semitic views.

Who knows.....

[Bread and Circus]

230. If you read the data, you would see the trend hasn't changed that much thus 2011 is not out of date.

Nice try, but you are just wrong. Also, you are just being misleading. I know the reality of what you found in those 34 pages is probably rocking your world a bit, as it did mine, but that's ok. I never expected in a millions years that there would that much anti-semitism bigotry within core constituencies of the Democratic Party but the facts are just there.

You will need to square with the facts.

Or do you doubt the research of the Anti Defamation League?

[wildeyed]

235. 2011 is old.

That was five years ago.

The survey itself looked to be well constructed, for what that is worth. The margin of error is not static and they do not tell you where it changes. I found that disappointing.

I did not find anything there that "rocked my world". But I know how to read data for info instead of cherry-picking my confirmation bias.

Hey! Let's do a survey about how much anti-black bias there is in the white community!

http://www.pbs.org/newshour/updates/americas-racism-problem-far-complicated-think/

Holy crap, that's A LOT of racism! And sadly, it is not getting better. The youngs are nearly as racist as the olds!

But here is the real story: Age tells us far less about an individual’s likelihood of expressing racist sentiments than factors like education and geography.

So if I were to say OH NOES!!!!! Young whites are sooooo racist, that is technically correct, but not really. Because education and geography are the more decisive factors.

And that was also the real story of the data you showed me. I need to see levels of education and geographical location of the sub-groups before I draw any racial conclusions. Also interested in how religious people in the survey rate themselves and if that factor was controlled for, since this is a poll ABOUT religion. Did they control for that or not? Since it was 2011, probably not..... we got more savvy about details like that recently. But what I really need to see is an analysis of the data from a trusted source. That is lacking too.

So your link, meh.... Not particularly interesting or informative, and a very poor starting place for accusations like yours.

Try again. Got anything current?

[Bread and Circus]

237. Yes, there is lots of racism (especially vs blacks) within the white community. I will admit that.

And that's the difference between you and I it seems. I can actually admit there's a problem and acknowledge facts.

Also 2011 is not old for this kind of data. If you think anti-Semitism has changed in 5 years then you are ignoring thousands of years of history.

I am sorry but I don't like to engage in your fantasy land and magical thinking.

[wildeyed]

245. No, I ALSO admit that there is much racism in the white community

towards black.

But I still have no idea what I am allegedly in a fantasy land about vis a vis your original post since you WILL NOT SAY. So say it or you are the one making fantasies.

And I said the data was inconclusive because your link does not tell me enough about the numbers. And it also might have changed in that time. This is the USA. We change fast here. 1000 years? Who cares. This country is YOUNG! Find me a newer one and we can see. But I require education, age, religiosity index and geographical break outs too. All of those things affect bigotry.

OK! Waiting! TIA!

[Bread and Circus]

248. Keep dancing...keep dancing.

[wildeyed]

263. It ain't just a river....

Waiting for facts or even a basic explanation of what you are so CONCERNED about.... Still waiting....... OK! Let me know when you got some!

[Tarc]

158. The last, desperate card to be played by Camp Sanders

The only thing I'm surprised about is that it took this long.

[dem in texas]

159. You are so wrong!

I grew up in Texas and am old enough to remember whites only water fountains, segregated schools, blacks riding in the back of the bus, all of that. It wrong and I am so glad it no longer exists. But the Jewish population in the South was a different matter. Yes, there were racists and KKK members who were against Jewish people (and Blacks and Catholics, too), but for the community as a whole, discrimination did not exist towards the Jewish people. They played a very important part in Dallas history and made major contributions to the city. I knew many Jewish families growing up and often played with my Jewish friends.

Remember when Kennedy ran for president. Everyone said the Pope would be telling him what to do. He got elected did he?

I like Bernie and like what he has to say, but I don't think the things he is proposing will every fly (free college, free medical care, etc), but I don't his being Jewish would prevent him from winning. He just needs a more practical platform. I supported Obama all the way for both his runs. This time around I have already voted in early voting and voted for Clinton. I don't think Bernie can win and the most important thing in the election is to have an outcome where we have another Democratic president.

[lamp_shade]

164. horse shit

[wildeyed]

226. +1

[Hekate]

166. My experience in the BushCheney years was that it came from the Left and Far Left, not core Dems

It really threw me for a loop to see all that shit right out there in public at major rallies (like the ones I went to in DC) -- but it did NOT come from mainstream Democrats, the core group Bernistas love to hate on.

Nice try, though.

[rhett o rick]

176. On what issues do your "mainstream Democrats" differ from the Left?

The Left supports and has always supported the People. The other wing of our Party is far from "mainstream" when they support the MIC, the Patriot Act, cutting SS and Medicare, support tax breaks for Goldman-Sachs.

The Clintons have accepted between $100,000,000 - $200,000,000 for their personal wealth from banksters , Wall Street CEO's and billionaires. And some will tell us they are friends of the poor. They live nicely in the top 1% of the top 1% and are looking to accumulate more and more wealth.

"The choice is stark, keep living under corporate rule under Hillary and watch things get worse, or go with Bernie and fight TPTB to regain our Representative Democracy!"

[okasha]

183. First you need to establish

that these supposef anti-Semites even know Sanders is Jewish. As far as I can tell, he's non-observant. Leiberman is Orthodox, quite open about it, and would have been VP had the 2000 election been honest.

[DisgustedTX]

187. Eternal victim mentality is old

I'm an Irish Italian Catholic who supports Bernie.

Enough already.

[Warren DeMontague]

195. This OP sure seems to have worked some people up.

It would appear that discussion of bigotry and discrimination against historically oppressed groups makes some so-called progressives uncomfortable.

[DisgustedTX]

198. Hardly. Any research by the OP would have revealed Bernie isn't a practicing Jewish man

I don't want that to interfere with the typical "Holocaust/Hitler" garbage from 70 years ago though - is it 1946 or 2016?

[stevenleser]

214. As a non-practicing Jewish person, let me assure you that it doesn't matter to anti-Semites.

They are of the opinion that Judaism is a "race" and thus it doesn't matter if you practice or not, your very blood and DNA are tainted and make you a bad person.

That said, it doesn't really seem to be an issue in the campaign as of yet at least. The one thing that Sanders not practicing and not talking about it much DOES do is that I will bet very few voters as a percentage are even aware he is Jewish. That may be playing a part in the fairly few issues of anti-semitism so far.

[Bread and Circus]

217. I don't think voters are that stupid to not know.

[stevenleser]

219. I think many voters don't know. I also dont think it makes them stupid. Many are too busy

to spend a lot of time looking over everyone's dossier.

[Warren DeMontague]

246. Your argument here is that there's no Anti-Semitism against non-practicing Jews?

Keeeeeeeeeeeeep diggin'!

[Octafish]

197. Same people who hate President Obama hate Sen. Sanders.

“Negrophobes exist. It is not hatred of the Negro, however, that motivates them; they lack the courage for that, or they have lost it. Hate is not inborn; it has to be constantly cultivated, to be brought into being, in conflict with more or less recognized guilt complexes. Hate demands existence and he who hates has to show his hate in appropriate actions and behavior; in a sense, he has to become hate. That is why Americans have substituted discrimination for lynching. Each to his own side of the street.” ― Frantz Fanon, Black Skin, White Masks

[BreakfastClub]

199. I haven't seen that at all. I doubt most people even know that

Bernie is Jewish. Most seem to see him as another white guy.

[shadowrider]

208. THIS

is why I've been very quiet on who I'm supporting.

If I support Hillary, I'm an anti-semite.

If I support Bernie, I'm a sexist.

I want none of that.

[wildeyed]

211. Nope.

You are neither, based solely on a candidate choice. Anyone who claims otherwise, on either side, is full of it.

[shadowrider]

221. Agreed

But I still keep my mouth shut. I want no part of the wars.

[wildeyed]

223. You are very wise.

[farleftlib]

213. There will be no honest discussion

because the anti-semites are not going to out themselves. They'll keep flinging poo but they won't be honest about why.

[NastyRiffraff]

215. Nope

The Sanders campaign made a mess of Nevada. They got in too late, scattered their 12 campaign offices all over the state rather than concentrate, as Clinton did, on Clark County where 75% of Nevada's residents live; completely failed to coordinate their volunteers, depending on them to just show up; failed to shore up their base, instead concentrating on identifying potential supporters, a strategy that backfired particularly in the Latino community. Not a hint of anti-semitism, just campaign incompetence.

[wildeyed]

227. And spent a metric shit-ton of money on ad buys.

You forgot that one

[NastyRiffraff]

307. So I did!

You're absolutely right

[bklyncowgirl]

220. Remember Jesse Jackson's "Hymietown" remark. There is such a thing as black anti-semitism.

Coming from the cesspool of tribal politics that is New York City it is quite possible that some African-Americans hold Sander's religion against him. I'll admit, however that I don't know much about attitudes in the deep south.

Incidentally, I don't think Jesse Jackson is an anti-Semite. I think at the time he was in politician mode assessing whether or not certain ethnic groups in New York were likely to vote for him and made an abysmally poor choice of words that others pounced on.

[JI7]

229. it IS antisemitic since he used that term

People discuss demographics and chance of winning all the time. He could have just said jewish voters and it would have been fine. But he used a very bigoted term.

[bklyncowgirl]

232. There's no excuse for his using that word.

I'm pretty damn sure that if someone used the "N" word to discuss the proclivities of African-American voters the Reverend Jackson would have blown a gasket. That being said, he did apologize and I don't know of any other anti-Semitic statements or actions on Jackson's part.

At any rate, my point was that to say as some have here that no African-American would ever hold a Jewish person's faith and background against him or her is just plain silly. I lived in New York in the 80s and early 90s. Tensions between the two communities were very high ending in riots in Crown Heights when an Orthodox Rebbe's limo struck an African-American child and the Hasidic ambulance that was first on the scene took the slightly injured Jewish leader to the hospital and left the kid to die in the streets.

[DisgustedTX]

233. Don't want Bernie? "ANTI-SEMITE!" "HOLOCAUST!" "HITLER!"

And this is coming from a Bernie supporter- get over yourselves.

The mantra is ancient, old, and tired.

I like Bernie as a MAN. He could be purple and scream he loves Martians for all I care.

His religious beliefs and nationality matter none to this voter. I can understand and appreciate the need to separate RELIGION FROM GOVERNMENT. I hope to vote for Bernie on POLICY and CHARACTER.

$100 says all the "victims" are just as outraged in the other direction by Cruz and Rubio which makes us no better than them.

Attend your churches, synagogues, and temples - just keep it out of our political system. Please.

[Warren DeMontague]

249. Don't want Hillary? "MISOGYNISTIC BERNIEBRO!"

derp

[Bread and Circus]

253. For months...and there's also an inference you are either racist or insensitive to minority concerns

[72DejaVu]

264. Huh

Did you just equate being called a "BernieBro" with being called an anti-Semite?

[Warren DeMontague]

267. I dont know.

Did I?

Better run it through the outrage-a-tron, see if you've landed a live one. Good luck!

[Karmadillo]

236. I didn't know this. Thank you for posting the information.

[lovemydog]

243. I think I have a different take than a lot of people.

Yes, there's anti-semitism among some in the democratic party and among self-described liberals.

Yes, there's racism among some in the democratic party and among self-described liberals.

Yes, there's sexism among some in the democratic party and among self-described liberals.

Yes, there's homophobia among some in the democratic party and among self-described liberals.

We need to talk with each other in friendlier ways. As Mark Twain said 'Travel helps reduce prejudice.' We have a great opportunity here at DU to visit other groups, become friendly with people who may not look and sound exactly like us. The more we do that and come away feeling good for having listened and exchanged thoughts and ideas in a friendly manner the more we all benefit.

[Warren DeMontague]

251. but addressing the real thing is different than imagining it under every rock to score points.

One thing that is interesting is that we have talked about the supposed sexism and racism allegedly rampant among certain candidates' supporters, fuck, for 8 straight months now.

OTOH, I think this is one of the only few threads I've seen on the topic of Anti-Semitism.

[lovemydog]

261. Of course. And there's also a lot of denial about these things too.

When people deny it, that sure isn't very helpful to the people who see it and feel it. From my experience and from what I've read here, I've seen a lot of racism. I haven't seen as much sexism and anti-semitism. Though I'm sure many have seen that too. I don't feel it helps anyone by claiming that anyone is 'imagining it under every rock to score points.' People have fears and concerns, some based on past history, some based on present treatment. Those concerns are very real.

[Warren DeMontague]

271. I think the nonsense with Dolores Huerta is a glaringly perfect example.

People were absolutely beside themselves catapulting this noise about "Sanders supporters chanted english only!" .. Why? Because it plays into this narrative we've been fed nonstop about this supposedly rampant racism and sexism in the sanders camp, which has zero basis in fact.


I could have told you that an allegation that a room full of liberal sanders supporters spontaneously erupted in racist chants of "english only" were bullshit, and they were. But some people were ready to GOBBLE THAT SHIT UP, and didnt even care when it was proven false, hell, they're still repeating it.


Combine that with these deliberately crafted pieces of imagery about shit like supposed 'berniebros', a mythical creature whose picture has been painted so well we can see in our minds what shirts (purple gingham, natch) this dastardly fiend wears, the obama and rand paul stickers he has on his macbook pro, his facial hair and hat, we can speculate which mens rights subreddits he frequents, we're pretty sure he drives a prius for environmental cred but still throws his empty pabst blue ribbon cans out the window on the side of the freeway when no one is looking, etc.

Meanwhile, there has been almost no discussion about anti-semitism against one of the most successful Jewish contenders for a major party presidential nomination, ever. I think that is interesting, dont you?

[lovemydog]

273. No, we disagree.

I think she tweeted something and then a bunch of people took off in different directions. Best I can tell, there's some partial truth in what she said and some partial truth in what some of the other observers there said. The Washington Post article (I think it's cited upthread, otherwise I'm sure you can find it) I think describes pretty well what happened. I mean, I wasn't there but it seemed like a pretty objective summary taking into account various people who were there. All this crap of 'Liar!' is in my opinion bullshit. People have their own impressions of things and they can be formed by their age, by their experience and yes, by their own personal biases. That's not breaking news. The desire to throw gasoline on a mild flame is, I think, present on all sides in political primaries.

Regarding the video in the original post, yes I think Susan Sarandon is speaking to Dolores Huerta in an incredibly condescending tone, and I can understand why there would be negative blowback from that.

To answer your question at the end of your post, my personal feeling is that there hasn't been much anti-semitism against one of the most successful Jewish contenders for a major party presidential nomination, ever. If people want to discuss it they are free to discuss it.

[Warren DeMontague]

274. The allegation was specific. That Sanders supporters chanted "English Only" at DH.

The implication of that allegation is pretty obvious, and ugly.

And its not true.

[lovemydog]

285. Even if it's not one hundred percent true,

every individual has differing perceptions. It can be based on age, fears of being spoken down to, things that took place in her life prior to and during the caucus. Failing to acknowledge and accept that, and instead yelling 'Liar!' about an 84 year old champion of labor rights just plays into the stereotype that some Sanders supporters lack empathy for Latino people or for people who are different from them or for people who are not Sanders supporters. Self-righteously condemning others as 'Liars!' and 'Sellouts!' I mean, some have even ridiculously claimed that Ms. Huerta accepted bribes. Bribery is a crime. She got money for a nonprofit for goodness sake. What's notable to me is not Ms. Huerta's tweet. Or even Susan Sarandon's condescension. It's the blind refusal of some (not all) Sanders supporters to even remotely try and understand that other progressives may not support their exact candidate.

[Warren DeMontague]

295. I didn't say Dolores Huerta lied or that she deliberately misrepresented her own perception, even

though it's pretty friggin clear from the assortment of videos, etc. that no one "Chanted English Only" at her.

I said that there were an awful lot of HRC supporters who ran with that crap because it perpetuates a meme that they have been very invested in promoting for months, now, namely that Sanders' support pool is some hotbed of racism.

As for the rest of it, I'd say it's seems just as frequent to me that a lot of Hillary supporters have been perpetually peeved that anyone has had the nerve to actually mount a serious challenge to what was supposed to be the foregone conclusion of the primary race, namely HRC's inevitable "turn".

I understand people support her, and that they have an assortment of reasons for doing so. I've figured from the beginning that she'd probably be the nominee. It's one of the reasons why I've been continually critical of the really lame campaign she's been running, because if we're gonna win in November she will need more than what she's been doing so far to motivate enough people to the polls.

[lovemydog]

298. Yeah, I was referring to other folks in the pro-Sanders camp

who have said it directly or implied it.

We always seem to demand more more more of our politicians. This season I kind of feel like I'm demanding less less less. Not on policy positions. Those are very important to me. But I don't think any one president or person will change a whole lot, not without a very strongly liberal Congress. I think both Sanders and Clinton would face a tough challenge from the republicans. It's impossible to predict at this time who would do better. I think a lot of us are nervous because we flirt back and forth with thinking Bernie would do better or Hillary would do better and none of us want republicans to control every major branch of government. So it has us on edge.

I'm a bit tired of us on our side beating each other up so much. I'd rather have fun here and find new things to learn (I like the AA group for that reason because I learn a lot there) and exchange some laughs and improve my morale and the morale of others. Kind of like camaraderie or whatever one may call it. I don't expect to change many people's minds or to step up anyone else's game very much.

I think with both Sanders and Clinton, neither can do a whole lot more to change or step up their campaigns or even to motivate enough people to the polls. At some point I feel it's up to the people themselves to vote. And if they don't it's not that there aren't differences in policy. It's that people are just to cynical or too know it all or too oppressed or what have you to find a reason to vote. To me, voting is the least one does as a citizen. Not the most. I'm a bit disturbed by how many can't even deign to do that, as reflected by our terrible turnout at the last midterms. I'd like to see way more liberal policies at every level of government. Especially in the economic realm. But maybe we're just outnumbered. And I don't mean outnumbered within the democratic party. I mean outnumbered by republicans who vote.

[Warren DeMontague]

300. I, too, am tired of the fighting. I expected it, I mean I remember '04 and '08, but it gets old.

I do think that we are in sort of an "all bets are off" situation in regards to what used to be commonly accepted conventional political wisdom, so to me that causes a bit of frustration with what I see as running a playbook that is outdated for this decade, and century, and the demographics of who we need to get to the polls. I think there are some relatively painless political positions HRC could take which would get a lot more Millennials involved- real marijuana law reform at the federal level, for one, given that it is an issue likely to play out in a large number of states this November (not to mention, the numbers of us who have already legalized) ... but I suspect that with some notable exceptions out here on the west coast (Newsom, Merkeley) legalization is running about 5-10 years behind marriage equality in terms of the beltway brahmins feeling comfortable enough to come out openly in favor of it, despite the American people polling in favor.

I would love it if ANY of the candidates would figure out what they're talking about before opining on something like encryption and Apple's battle with the FBI. It's fairly clear to me that both Sanders and Hillary (and before them, O'Malley) were a bit lost when trying to talk about the subject. These guys have enough friends in Silicon Valley, someone should take the time to explain to them, and they should take the time to learn, exactly what the situation is. Technology is only going to be more and more important in this century, and there are really good reasons why people want secure devices that don't have an asterisk after "secure".

Similarly I suspect she could get traction if she were to go higher on the minimum wage. I think a case has been made more forcefully and articulately this cycle for the moral imperatives behind a living wage, and that one move alone would do a great deal to change the facts on the ground for millions struggling on 2-3 jobs to make ends meet.

I do think the argument some Sanders people have been making is that the way to draw more people to our side, nationally, is to make a clearer distinction on economic policy with the GOP. That if we did that, clearly and effectively, we wouldn't be as outnumbered as it seems. Hillary supporters often bring up 1972, but I think 2004 is educational, in that it was a situation where we as a party nominated the supposedly stronger, 'more electable' candidate and lost, in part because many voters didn't feel there was a clear distinction from the GOP on crucial issues, the most pressing being the Iraq War.

but like I said, it's a sort of all bets are off situation, and either side can claim- without any objective basis to back it up- to have the smarter strategy.

[Bread and Circus]

275. It is extraordinarily interesting when you consider the numbers in the ADL study.

[kjones]

256. But i thought sexism, racism, and a whole bunch of other -isms were unimportant?

Stinky, stinky hypocrisy.

[Arazi]

265. I know one personally - my liberal Dem dad whose convinced Jews have too much influence

and believes Bernie Sanders will always foremost belong to "the tribe"



Anti-semitism is already rearing its ugly head

Thanks for bringing it up even as it clearly makes folks deeply uncomfortable

[DisgustedTX]

269. No- it's your victimized imagination.

Most of us don't care.

[ecstatic]

278. You have been given many different reasons for why some people aren't feeling the Bern

I don't have time to rehash all the different reasons I've seen around here.

Apparently, those reasons aren't good enough for you, and now you've decided to smear "core constituencies" of the democratic party. I find that disgusting!

[Bread and Circus]

279. Honestly other than electability and historic precedent I haven't heard one plausible

Reason why anyone supports Clinton over Sanders.

[lovemydog]

282. I've found a dozen plausible reasons

why anyone supports Clinton. I've also found a dozen plausible reasons why anyone supports Sanders over Clinton.

I think that's a real problem among many Sanders supporters. I think a lot of Clinton supporters have repeatedly said they can understand why someone would support Sanders. And many (not all) Sanders supporters fail to listen, fail to do any research, fail to read her web site, fail to even deign to comprehend why progressive people can have differences of opinion and still be progressive.

And no, I'm not going to provide my list of the dozen reasons. You can and should do that yourself.

[Bread and Circus]

283. There are plenty of threads disparaging Sanders supporters

We have waded through them for months and months. Accusations of misogeny and heartless racism for months and months. The Berniebro smear and on and on.

But no... not much about how Clinton is truly better than Sanders on the merits.

[lovemydog]

288. Yes there are. And there are plenty of threads disparaging

Clinton supporters or disparaging Clinton herself. For a dozen reasons why some may feel Clinton is truly better than Sanders on the merits, you can find many articles by yourself or read through other groups here. As a rather impartial observer in this primary (my state doesn't have its primary until June but I'll vote in it and especially will vote in the general election and local elections) I'd suggest that it's a pretty good exercise to find a dozen reasons why anyone may support Sanders on the merits and why anyone may support Clinton on the merits, or why they may have supported O'Malley on the merits. I think one reason why you haven't seen a lot lately on how Clinton is truly better than Sanders on the merits here in GD: P is that whenever anyone posts it they tend to get their posts ripped apart by personal insults.

[Bread and Circus]

290. Well good luck to you then is about all I can say.

[lovemydog]

292. Thanks. Good luck to you too!

[ecstatic]

284. 1. Bernie is promising shit he cannot deliver

That alone should disqualify him. It's OFFENSIVE. Great ideas, but he's either a liar or completely delusional about how the system works. This is a congress that won't even allow a Supreme Court nominee to pass. And, he's had, what? 3 trivial bills pass in 30 years? Stop the madness!

Second, Bernie never thought the issues that matter most to me were particularly important. I saw him for years be completely dismissive of my issues. But now that he's running for president, suddenly he's trying to rewrite history. It doesn't work like that.

Third, I do think that symbols matter. I would like to see a woman, who happens to be the most qualified of all the candidates on both sides, be president of the United States.

Fourth, for years, anti-Obama DUers have used Bernie Sanders to attack the president. This obviously inflated Sanders' ego to the point where he had the audacity to call for President Obama to be primaried in 2012.

Fifth, why doesn't anyone who has served with Bernie over the past 30 years like him? He doesn't have a single friend or supporter in the Senator or congress?

Sixth, his accent, mannerisms and grumpy speaking style annoy the hell out of me! His stump speech is almost Rubio-like--memorized, rehearsed, not flexible because most of the stuff is completely new to him. He never cared about social justice before.

Seventh, if he won, I'd have to continue reading posts from BernieBros. No thanks.
Should I go on..?

[Bread and Circus]

286. Hillary promises to cure Alzheimers in 8 years. That is promising a Unicorn.

Go read her website if you don't believe me.

Countries have delivered Universal and Single Payer health care. Numerous examples that work well and save money.

No one has cured Alzheimers.

Yes there are breakthrough treatments that may be on the horizon. But they are not cures.

So don't talk to me about promises and reality.

Hell according to some Hill supporters here they would have you believe she is gonna cure us all of racism by telling us to "cut it out".

Hillary is the fantasy candidate if you ask me.

[brooklynite]

289. I could care less if Sanders is Jewish, or an adherent of any other made up religion...

...my issue with him is his inability (in my opinion) to win a General Election.

[tarheelsunc]

303. IF there's any Anti-Semitism, it's CERTAINLY at a much lower level than the misogyny.

The fact that Hillary can be called "bitch" and "whore" among other names and juries let it stand is proof of that.

[melman]

305. How about a link

to some of those posts?

[yardwork]

304. I noticed. Anti-Semitic sites are now regularly sourced here by Sanders supporters.

[Hekate]

325. Adorable, isn't it.

[yardwork]

328. Yeah. Notice nobody even bothered to dispute the statement.

[ericson00]

313. stop. The anti-semitism that does exist here is mainly coming from those

who support BDS against the Jewish State of Israel, and nearly all of those types are for Sanders. Sanders: Jewish = Cruz : Hispanic, as in merely being useful idiots who are "different" those the rest of their group members to the real bigots.

[nadinbrzezinski]

319. I agree with you

and some of the more coded forms are starting to emerge.

It is the 800 pound gorilla but you will not truly get a discussion of that here. The last place people want to talk about this is at DU.

On and on edit, it is not just limited to core constituencies. It is pretty wide spread.