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Atman

(31,464 posts)
Tue Feb 23, 2016, 10:42 AM Feb 2016

Enlightened discussion with a friend, re: Clinton v. Sanders.

A very dear friend for years, who happens to be Jewish, lesbian, single mom (it's complicated), was asking me about Bernie v. Hillary. She said she thought she should vote for Hillary because she's "more electable." Nothing about gender, just because she didn't see people voting for an old Jewish socialist in the general. This, coming from a gay Jewish woman. She asked for my thoughts. How could Bernie really do all of the stuff he's promising? What about our taxes? A wealthy mutual friend who makes about $300,000/yr (educated guess based upon conversations, looking at the sales awards in his office, etc) told her he can't vote for Bernie because his taxes would go up. What about our taxes? To be fair, he'd never vote for a Dem anyway.

I actually surprised myself with a rather succinct answer which related to my own life, and still paying off half of my kid's student loan debt, and ridiculous insurance premiums: I don't care if our friend's taxes go up. It would only be on income over $250,000 anyway, so I'm not worried. But even if my taxes DID go up…even if they went up by several hundred dollars a year…I'd happily pay an additional $1000-$2000 in taxes if I didn't have to pay $12,000 in health insurance premiums for a policy with a $6,000 deductible! It's basic math, no Common Core bullshit!

The ads from the GOP are in the can…if Bernie somehow gets the nomination, he'll be immediately branded as a commie socialist who'll raise your taxes through the roof to pay for unicorns and puppies for all! It's gonna happen.

So, if you find yourself in this discussion, I think my explanation is pretty clear; would you rather pay a relatively small, albeit potentially sharp, tax increase instead of paying $18,000 a year to the for-profit insurance/health care industry? Increased taxes are the Republican's favorite bogeyman. They'll scare the bejeebers out of people by screaming TAXES! GOVERNMENT WASTE! But seriously…a small tax increase in exchange for not having to pay for health insurance I can't even afford to use? Sign me up.

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Enlightened discussion with a friend, re: Clinton v. Sanders. (Original Post) Atman Feb 2016 OP
re electablility you should share these with your friend tk2kewl Feb 2016 #1
Well said. Jester Messiah Feb 2016 #2
In addition to what tk2kewl posted above, electability also would include these issues: JudyM Feb 2016 #3
 

Jester Messiah

(4,711 posts)
2. Well said.
Tue Feb 23, 2016, 11:02 AM
Feb 2016

Although if we have to rely on the electorate to do even simple math, we might be headin' for a hurtin'.

JudyM

(29,785 posts)
3. In addition to what tk2kewl posted above, electability also would include these issues:
Tue Feb 23, 2016, 12:26 PM
Feb 2016

These investigations vs Hillary are moving forward - not just the emails (which officials have indicated are serious matter and while Hillary brushes this off as "they weren't marked at the time" is the biggest load of BS because legally that doesn't matter and she knows it!), but corruption as SOS and Senator in relation to the Clinton Foundation (e.g., biggest arms sale ever to Saudis who then made huge donation to Clinton Foundation). These are being investigated by obama's administration and could blow up during the general, AND be used vs her either way by Rethugs. This also goes to her "effectiveness" if she wins the GE because they will dog her with this for 4 yrs.

Bernie has significant crossover appeal with independents, she has none. When Rand Paul was still in the race, I spoke with Iowans while phonebanking who said Bernie was their second choice only to Paul.

She is iconically reviled by many many rethugs who will get off their butts to vote AGAINST her even though they wouldn't be inspired to out to vote FOR one of the clown car. That's huge.
As is the fact that Bernie will GOTV for our party more enthusiastically. (My brother, a dem for his whole life, told me he will vote for a rethug over Hillary... He said "No way am I voting for her. She's completely corrupt.&quot

Not only favorability, but trustworthiness ratings are higher for Bernie than any of the others and lower for Hillary.

Bernie's trajectory in polls has been continuously upwards while Clinton's has fallen or flattened out... The till-recent media near-blackout facilitated by DNC cost him because people like him but they aren't familiar with him till he gets to their states...

--(if this gets alerted, JURY please note that this is a question of electability and this is a central issue that needs to be able to be discussed)

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