2016 Postmortem
Related: About this forumWhy doesn't Bernie publicly denounce Marxism?
once and for all? Isn't it about time? Just to ease lingering questions? Sorta like lingering questions that might be eased if Hillary released her transcripts?
daleanime
(17,796 posts)Google it.
MrMickeysMom
(20,453 posts)That's what I would have said!
JonLeibowitz
(6,282 posts)cantbeserious
(13,039 posts)eom
JackRiddler
(24,979 posts)and the never-ending crises of capitalism, I'd say a heck of a lot.
cantbeserious
(13,039 posts)eom
JackRiddler
(24,979 posts)cantbeserious
(13,039 posts)eom
JackRiddler
(24,979 posts)the kind of thinking that is characterized as "Marxist" (whether it is or not) irrelevant.
cantbeserious
(13,039 posts)eom
JackRiddler
(24,979 posts)when idiots go around red-baiting. It's important to do that, given the history of anti-communist outrages in this country.
Otherwise he's a political philosopher worth reading, among several or many. Much of what's attributed to his tradition happens to apply, today as dramatically as ever.
cantbeserious
(13,039 posts)eom
cascadiance
(19,537 posts)Same difference in terms of relevance to this election, and something where these relationships can be more demonstrably established.
JackRiddler
(24,979 posts)Except she is denouncing the Kochs, that's an acceptable attack on billionaires in DNC Land.
cascadiance
(19,537 posts)dimple
(56 posts)What?
noamnety
(20,234 posts)wikipedia:
"Between 1929 and 1932 Winkler-Koch "trained Bolshevik engineers and helped Stalins regime set up fifteen modern oil refineries" in the Soviet Union. "Over time, however, Stalin brutally purged several of Kochs Soviet colleagues. Koch was deeply affected by the experience, and regretted his collaboration." The company also built installations in countries throughout Europe, the Middle East and Asia. According to New Yorker writer Jane Mayer, Koch partnered with William Rhodes Davis to build the third-largest oil refinery serving the Third Reich, a project which was personally approved by Adolf Hitler."
...In 1958, Koch became a founding member of the John Birch Society, an American political advocacy group that opposes communist infiltration and supports limited government. Koch held John Birch Society chapter meetings in the basement of his family's home in Wichita, Kansas.
see wikipedia for the references: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fred_C._Koch
dimple
(56 posts)I wonder what's the backstory about that.
hobbit709
(41,694 posts)cascadiance
(19,537 posts)... who he also killed off. I see a note in this thread that Bernie studied Trotsky early on.
Soviets had their 1%er versus 99%er battles too in those days, even if they didn't call it that!
hobbit709
(41,694 posts)Much less the history of most of the rest of the world.
And even less about political philosophy.
cascadiance
(19,537 posts)... and how those banksters such as J.P. Morgan should have been arrested and perhaps executed for treason, let alone the bank fraud their descendants weren't prosecuted for today! I guess in that sense Obama was carrying on the tradition of a more lax DOJ that FDR had in those days too.
hobbit709
(41,694 posts)Motown_Johnny
(22,308 posts)EmperorHasNoClothes
(4,797 posts)I have to wonder how she really feels about it.
youceyec
(394 posts)That is silly. Sanders IS associated with Marxism. Its out there.
MrMickeysMom
(20,453 posts)Richard Wolf is the self proclaimed Marxist.
So, now tell us how you think this is relevant to Bernie Sanders.
Impedimentus
(898 posts)You forgot the " ' ".
"The truth is out there." FBI Special Agent Maulder, The X-Files.
EmperorHasNoClothes
(4,797 posts)I'm sure you have documentation to back up that claim, right?
Bradical79
(4,490 posts)at least according to the same conservative circles you get your Sanders is a Marxist info from
http://www.nysun.com/new-york/did-hillary-clinton-order-a-kitten-caper/65976/
It'd be nice if she could address those concerns.
Seriously though, don't post idiotic red scare drivel.
jillan
(39,451 posts)Starry Messenger
(32,342 posts)You know, this fake Hillary thing you are doing? Isn't convincing.
MrMickeysMom
(20,453 posts)It's about a real a question as you can answer tonight.
Starry Messenger
(32,342 posts)The OP is a fisherman.
MrMickeysMom
(20,453 posts)Starry Messenger
(32,342 posts)And provides guidance from the history of different social movements and the coalitions they gathered in order to successfully overturn oppression.
That your kitty? Very cute!
MrMickeysMom
(20,453 posts)I'm fishing for another few kitties later this year (after the election), but my avatar is my beloved dearly missed Mr. Mickey, who passed last September.
We're going to get two after all this... I wonder what we'll name them. I'll be thinking...
NowSam
(1,252 posts)Thank you for equating the extremely reasonable proposals for a fair and Just America with Communism.
MrMickeysMom
(20,453 posts)NowSam
(1,252 posts)MrMickeysMom
(20,453 posts)NowSam
(1,252 posts)John Poet
(2,510 posts)'Course, that could get awkward, since she effectively supported one in Honduras.
http://www.globalresearch.ca/hillary-clintons-six-foreign-policy-catastrophes/5509543
Wilms
(26,795 posts)Don't you?
Impedimentus
(898 posts)What an inane thread. Get yourself an education.
youceyec
(394 posts)of you to assume I need education. You can't force me to feel the bern no matter how hot Berine is.
litlbilly
(2,227 posts)Ned_Devine
(3,146 posts)whatchamacallit
(15,558 posts)Worthy of denouncement.
tazkcmo
(7,302 posts)And then think we're trying to force you to "feel the bern"? Speaking strictly for myself, after reading your few posts my only hope is you never participate in any election. Ever. So, no, I don't care if you feel any burn at all although there's plenty of that in this thread but it's a wasted effort on you.
FSogol
(45,529 posts)Kudos!
Armstead
(47,803 posts)FSogol
(45,529 posts)Gawd, I swear, DU is getting stranger and stranger.
Impedimentus
(898 posts)I suspect the author of this thread is trying to digest your question right now.
Maybe he's even chewing on it?
Or perhaps it's stuck in his craw.
Enough, I'm going to go watch the Hunger Games.
My sincere apologies for posting this utter nonsense, but the author's post gave me indigestion.
demwing
(16,916 posts)just nearly counted me as a new member
thereismore
(13,326 posts)DemocraticWing
(1,290 posts)But, his form of socialism is not particularly in line with Marxism (he certainly does not believe in exclusively economic determinism).
Impedimentus
(898 posts)And there is already too much confusion in the original post. Just my opinion
MrMickeysMom
(20,453 posts)Steven Colbert just punched her during this town hall!
Warren Stupidity
(48,181 posts)Response to youceyec (Original post)
dimple This message was self-deleted by its author.
El Supremo
(20,365 posts)You've survived a whole 200 posts.
And yes, I'm for Hillary.
Oh, and get a star if you want me to really pay attention to you.
hobbit709
(41,694 posts)JackRiddler
(24,979 posts)when these questions of character hound Hillary on DU 24/7 its ok but when its on Berine its trolling and someone not worthy of a post?
hobbit709
(41,694 posts)and imaginary hallucinations about Bernie?
JackRiddler
(24,979 posts)constitute a question of anyone's character but your own.
Nonhlanhla
(2,074 posts)He's not a Marxist, so why should he?
In any case, Marx was a great philosopher. Why should Marxism be denounced? Shall we also ask candidates to denounce Darwinism or the ideas of Nietzsche or Freud, just so we can make sure that we got all the 19th century Masters of Suspicion covered!
And I say this as a Hillary supporter.
Impedimentus
(898 posts)I don't believe we should ask Sanders, Clinton or even Trump to denounce great thinkers or even heresies. Heck, I wouldn't even ask Cruz to denounce Apollinarianism, although it might be amusing to do so during a Republican debate.
Nonhlanhla
(2,074 posts)I'm trying to imagine Cruz's face as he tries to imagine what Apollinarianism is! Most evangelicals are not well versed in ancient Christian heresies!
mythology
(9,527 posts)This is really silly. Let Sanders focus on discussing his own campaign. He doesn't need to denounce Marxism as it's not what he's campaigning on. He may want to discuss it because there are lots of Americans who don't understand that Marxism isn't a synonym for Socialism, much less for Democratic Socialism, but he doesn't need to denounce your inaccurate conflation.
noiretextatique
(27,275 posts)When was the last time you beat your SO?
HooptieWagon
(17,064 posts)monicaangela
(1,508 posts)Marxism is a philosophy, a world-view, a system of social and economic analysis, and, it became political doctrine. In understanding Marxism it is also important to understand the time in which Marxist ideology developed, which was during the culmination of The Enlightenment, the middle and late 1800s, when America still had slaves, women did not have the right to vote anywhere, women had very few rights at all in most places, the poor were extremely bad off in Europe, imperialism and colonialism were the order of the day, the world truly was dominated by a handful of extremely wealthy men, and science was being more widely embraced by average citizens throughout Western Civilization than ever before.
Marxism is based on philosophical materialism. Philosophical materialism is the view that all things in the universe are natural and follow the laws of nature, i.e. that there is no such thing as the supernatural.
Marx, and his associate Engels, developed a philosophy known as dialectical materialism. Dialectical Materialism is the merger of the ideas of dialectics and materialism and basically states that all things in the universe are material, that evolution is constantly taking place at all levels of existence and in all systems, that defined boundaries are man made concepts which do not actually exist in nature, and that the universe is an interconnected unified entity in which all elements are connected to, and dependant upon, each other. The philosophy holds that science is the only means by which truth can be determined.
Metaphysical materialism states that the mind, or thought, is purely the product of the material composition of the brain. In other words, the physical and chemical makeup of the brain governs thought, nothing else.
Marx also developed the philosophy of historical materialism, which is essentially the application of dialectical materialism to the study of history and sociology. Historical materialism was seen as a scientific approach to understanding history and applying that understanding to present situations.
Now then, my question is: What would you like Bernie to denounce?
Impedimentus
(898 posts)It is one of the more amusing threads to land on DU today however, worth a chuckle.
monicaangela
(1,508 posts)Nonhlanhla
(2,074 posts)I could have used it in class today when my students and I started reading the Communist Manifesto!
monicaangela
(1,508 posts)Good to see you here this evening.
Impedimentus
(898 posts)nadinbrzezinski
(154,021 posts)why should he denounce what he is not?
By the way this is a form of red baiting.
Impedimentus
(898 posts)Sadly, another example of the success of a Republican goal.
Broward
(1,976 posts)brooklynite
(94,745 posts)Zorra
(27,670 posts)BainsBane
(53,072 posts)Enough has been done to dilute the meaning of socialism in this election.
dimple
(56 posts)Starry Messenger
(32,342 posts)I am CPUSA and the majority of our membership are working for Bernie. Some of us individually are HRC supporters. The CPUSA does not endorse candidates. We endorse issues and strategy and tactics.
beam me up scottie
(57,349 posts)Ferd Berfel
(3,687 posts)Dr. Strange
(25,925 posts)Come to think of it, he's never publicly denounced the prevent defense either. Why is that?
And what about The Misadventures of Sheriff Lobo? Not once has he publicly denounced that show. Nobody fucking watched that show! Why can't Bernie take a stand against police corruption in television?
Vote2016
(1,198 posts)Spirochete
(5,264 posts)just to piss you off.
Geez, where are they finding these people?
Impedimentus
(898 posts)Why doesn't Bernie publicly denounce this thread?