2016 Postmortem
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dchill
(42,660 posts)
Divernan
(15,480 posts)
pangaia
(24,324 posts)Response to Name removed (Original post)
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sufrommich
(22,871 posts)davidthegnome
(2,983 posts)Glad to have you here. Hold on to your hat. The primaries get crazy, but we're pretty decent people... despite how much mud flinging and fighting you'll see here in the next several months.
Duval
(4,280 posts)My husband and I feel the same as you.
Fuddnik
(8,846 posts)Lizzie Poppet
(10,164 posts)...as the head of the DNC.
he was previously banned rightwing troll
http://www.democraticunderground.com/?com=profile&uid=330432&sub=trans
Lizzie Poppet
(10,164 posts)
JTFrog
(14,274 posts)After all these years, right wingers are still not welcome here no matter who they pretend to support.
As for unbiased, I think the numerous message removed right wing trolls that have been welcomed into the fold around here lately probably is evidence of bias. Just not quite the bias you hint at.
Dustlawyer
(10,538 posts)Most of their minds are closed to the corruption issue that their candidate is the epitome of! We are well and truly screwed if Bernie doesn't make it. 4 more years of the financial elites running this country will put all of us in the poor house. Climate Change will be ignored and kicked down the road virtually eliminating our chance to lead the world back from the brink. We are playing with forces we don't completely understand, but every estimate of the Climate Change problem is always too low.
We have wars over limited oil, now we can add water and food, it's going to get really ugly real soon. Hillary will help the rich continue to make obscene profits at our expense, and that of the world's population. A global Have's vs. Have Not's!
sufrommich
(22,871 posts)
AlbertCat
(17,505 posts)noted
Lizzie Poppet
(10,164 posts)Well, that and the likelihood of sleaze-ing their way to the nomination (and getting destroyed in November)...
NurseJackie
(42,862 posts)
libdem4life
(13,877 posts)there is left to say. Not one intelligent rebuttal...other than snarky one-liners. That's speaks way louder than the ability to find and post pictures of actresses.
SunSeeker
(57,884 posts)
libdem4life
(13,877 posts)Lizzie Poppet
(10,164 posts)That's cool...I fondly remember my middle school years, too.
NurseJackie
(42,862 posts)
(More amusement.)
Lizzie Poppet
(10,164 posts)Thank you, Nurse Obvious.
Here's a little revelation for you, in return: that "nice refutation" wasn't a compliment. 
NurseJackie
(42,862 posts)You responded ... that's enough of a compliment for me.
Lizzie Poppet
(10,164 posts)Feel free to fill in the blank...
Don't worry, I find this entertaining, too...and informative. The Hillary campaign really has no good* argument for their corporatist candidate...and you're providing a perfect illustration of that lack.
* and by "good," I mean "progressive."
NurseJackie
(42,862 posts)Looks like my personal shortcomings and your opinion of me won't make a bit of difference in how things turn out after all. 
No matter what, Bernie will not be the nominee. That's all that matters to me. 
Lizzie Poppet
(10,164 posts)If Bernie not being the nominee is "all that matters" to you, then my opinion of your (skewed) priorities seems quite well founded. Not having another conservative coproratist in the White House would, I'd think, be the priority of any actual progressive, but hey, if that's not you, so be it. Some folks place party above all. Nothing I can say about that attitude would be helpful or kind (and, if bluntly honest, would surely get hidden).
If you get what you're hoping for in this primary, I sincerely wish you luck under the Republican-dominated government we'll be seeing for a few years.
NurseJackie
(42,862 posts)... if that makes you feel better about Bernie not winning the nomination. It bothers me not a whit. It doesn't hurt Hillary and it doesn't help Bernie. It's just something to do and pass the time on a Saturday morning/afternoon.
That's why, with my support, Hillary will prevail and prevent Trump from being in the White House.
Sure I am... the realistic and pragmatic variety. You'll just have to resign yourself to the fact that not everyone thinks the same way that you do, nor that everyone views the world in the same way that you do. (And based on how things are going for Bernie, it would appear that I'm not in the minority... so there's some comfort in that.)
I appreciate your honesty... and it's probably very wise of you to hold your tongue. You're making the correct decision.
Obviously, I have much more confidence and faith than you. Everything will be fine.
Goodbye for now.
HillareeeHillaraah
(685 posts)I find them amusing and on point. And I'm a woman. So there's that.
Counterpoint. Vastly unbalanced at DU these days. 
(And I just found the smilies button. Without my glasses I thought it read Similies and frankly I couldn't understand the need)
NurseJackie
(42,862 posts)Best thing I've read all day!
HillareeeHillaraah
(685 posts)And a deep sense of contentment from knowing we're about to wrap up this rather contentious
Bitter Bernie Battle.
Lizzie Poppet
(10,164 posts)/girlslaughing.jpg
But if true, what you're wrapping up is the loss of the White House in November.
HillareeeHillaraah
(685 posts)That we're preventing a loss of the White House in November. But tomato tomahto, right?
Lizzie Poppet
(10,164 posts)I believe Bernie can beat any GOP nominee in November...and Hillary probably can't beat any of the remaining three main contenders. I think some people vastly underestimate the hatred of Hillary on the right and how huge a motivating factor she is for those RW'ers. Combine that motivating factor with what will be a huge demotivating factor for a lot of young voters and far-left people (like me), and I worry about an absolute disaster in November (that is, along with retaining the gerrymandered House, the GOP will keep the Senate and gain the White House).
dpatbrown
(368 posts)Clinton supporters are in dangerous territory. I remember it happening in 68. True progressives stayed home rather than voting for a phony. Many, many can't stand Clinton, regardless of her party affiliation.
Lizzie Poppet
(10,164 posts)...among Republicans.
modestybl
(458 posts)...because, we've all been told, it's HER TURN. Complete with thanking all us little people out there in the dark...
NurseJackie
(42,862 posts)Love it! Well done!
RiverLover
(7,830 posts)Its insanity that we are even considering another Clinton in the WH. They've done enough damage. They need to retire & spend some quality time with the granddaughter & quit ruining our country. I'm sure the nanny could use more breaks, too.
Divernan
(15,480 posts)Quality time - alone together at long last!
HillareeeHillaraah
(685 posts)And the "damage"....why would we want these folks back...
Longest economic expansion in American history a record 115 months of economic expansion.
More than 22 million new jobs the most ever under a single administration, and more than were created in the previous twelve years.
Highest homeownership in American history. The homeownership rate increased from 64.2 percent in 1992 to 67. 7 percent
Lowest unemployment in 30 years 4.0 percent in November 2000.
Unemployment for African Americans and Hispanics fell to the lowest rates on record, and the rate for women was the lowest in more than 40 years.
Largest expansion of college opportunity since the GI Bill, increasing Pell Grants, expanding Federal Work-Study to allow 1 million students to work their way through college, and by creating new tax credits and scholarships such as Lifetime Learning tax credits and the HOPE scholarship.
Connected 95 percent of schools to the Internet
Enacted most sweeping gun safety legislation in a generation , signed the Brady bill in 1993,
Family and Medical Leave Act for 20 million Americans
Higher incomes at all levels
After falling by nearly $2,000 between 1988 and 1992, the median family's income rose by $6,338, after adjusting for inflation, since 1993. African American family income increased even more, rising by nearly $7,000 since 1993. After years of stagnant income growth among average and lower income families, all income brackets experienced double-digit growth since 1993. The bottom 20 percent saw the largest income growth at 16.3 percent.
Lowest poverty rate in 20 years the poverty rate declined from 15.1 percent to 11.8 percent by Clinton's year - the largest six-year drop in poverty in nearly 30 years. There were 7 million fewer people in poverty than in 1993. The child poverty rate declined more than 25 percent, the poverty rates for single mothers, African Americans and the elderly dropped to their lowest levels on record, and Hispanic poverty dropped to its lowest level since 1979.
Lowest teen birth rate in 60 years
Lowest infant mortality rate in American history
The Clinton Administration expanded efforts to provide mothers and newborn children with health care. A arecord high 82 percent of all mothers received prenatal care. The infant mortality rate had dropped from 8.5 deaths per 1,000 in 1992 to 7.2 deaths per 1,000 in 1998, the lowest rate ever recorded.
Deactivated more than 1,700 nuclear warheads, 300 launchers and 425 land and submarine based missiles from the former Soviet Union.
Protected millions of acres of American land, protected 5 new national parks, designated 11 new national monuments and expanded two others and proposed protections for 60 million acres of roadless areas in America's national forests.
Paid off $360 billion of the national debt
Between 1998-2000, the national debt was reduced by $363 billion — the largest three-year debt pay-down in American history.
Converted the largest budget deficit in American history to the largest Projected surplus of $237 billion.
Lowest government spending in three decades
Under President Clinton federal government spending as a share of the economy had decreased from 22.2 percent in 1992 to a projected 18.5 percent in 2000, the lowest since 1966.
Lowest federal income tax burden in 35 years
President Clinton enacted targeted tax cuts such as the Earned Income Tax Credit expansion, $500 child tax credit, and the HOPE Scholarship and Lifetime Learning Tax Credits. Federal income taxes as a percentage of income for the typical American family had dropped to their lowest level in 35 years.
Most diverse cabinet in American history
The President had appointed more African Americans, women and Hispanics to the Cabinet than any other President in history. He appointed the first female Attorney General, the first female Secretary of State and the first Asian American cabinet secretary ever.
Ferd Berfel
(3,687 posts)
chervilant
(8,267 posts)Doesn't all that sound just lovely?
Color me skeptical. I seldom lend credence to flowery praise presented without links or means of confirmation.
(It took me a while to understand just how underhanded has been the Clintons' most egregious behaviors. I simply cannot support Hi11ary for POTUS, and will have to hold my nose and carry a big box of tissues if I have to vote for her.)
HillareeeHillaraah
(685 posts)You can ask SIRI about it. And if you google accomplishments of the Clinton Presidency you might read about some of the good that occurred then. I did. Color me curious. Or you can listen to Fox News and just go along with the meme that the Clintons are the worst thing that ever happened in the history of all history.
It's much too lovely a day here in NY to stay cooped up in DU...and I hear it's going to be an even lovelier evening. Ta.
chervilant
(8,267 posts)Just what I expected.
KPN
(17,201 posts)about that anyway (another Clinton in the WH). She has no chance of winning the GE.
Tierra_y_Libertad
(50,414 posts)The only conclusions possible are that
a) they haven't been paying attention since 9/11
b) they have an amazing ability to forget
c) they think that neocon/neolib policies are just dandy
AlbertCat
(17,505 posts) 
40RatRod
(566 posts)Lizzie Poppet
(10,164 posts)...doesn't mean they're any good at it.
randome
(34,845 posts)If you're just going to give up, you were never -IMO- much of a revolutionary in the first place.
[hr][font color="blue"][center]TECT in the name of the Representative approves of this post.[/center][/font][hr]
retrowire
(10,345 posts)pdsimdars
(6,007 posts)She uses more WORDS intended to convey the image that she is more to the left, but what concrete evidence do you have that she is actually ACTING more progressive?
Nada!
TrueDemVA
(250 posts)Bernie is the first real democrat we have had in decades. I hope people open there eyes and see this. Hillary has never been and never will be a democrat. If this is what the Democratic Party has become. I want no part of it anymore. Hillary will never get my vote either.
grossproffit
(5,591 posts)NurseJackie
(42,862 posts)
AlbertCat
(17,505 posts)We saw how clever you were the 1st time.
33taw
(3,305 posts)NurseJackie
(42,862 posts)... wasn't going to vote for the nominee anyway. I think Bernie's supporters have proven themselves to be a pretty tough group that are capable of handling things.
JDPriestly
(57,936 posts)not voting for Hillary is based on more than petty, childish insults on a website.
There are profoundly important grounds for refusing to vote for Hllary, very important ones. Some of them are discussed in the OP.
The OP presents a compelling argument for voting against Hillary.
I have yet to see a post by a Hillary supporter presenting a compelling argument for voting for Hillary.
I question whether perhaps the drama queen posts are what psychologists call projection.
Silly answers do not persuade people. They don't change minds. They merely offend or at least try to offend. They make Hillary look bad.
The OP may hurt the feelings of Hillary supporters, but it is a serious post that discusses real issues.
I would really like to read a well thought through refutation of the OP by a Hillary supporter. If the OP is wrong, why? What is wrong about it?
I would like to know because I cannot in good conscience vote for Hillary either. I've seen too many really bad presidents to want, at the age of 72, to thrust another one on my children and grandchildren.
If Hillary were our only choice, then I don't know how I would feel.
But Bernie is running. He is the choice if we want a president who has good judgment, who is a good executive (he actually has experience at it -- more than four years), who knows everyone in the House and Senate, who adheres to strong spiritual and moral principles, who is ideal for the job. That's why I can't understand why we should settle for Hillary. She is none of the above. She really isn't qualified at all in my opinion.
Why should I vote for Hillary?
Please tell me.
saidsimplesimon
(7,888 posts)My mother, rest her soul, would love all your links to drama queens of the past. Thank you for sharing
840high
(17,196 posts)
Paper Roses
(7,623 posts)Please divide your posts into readable paragraphs.
It is hard to read when information is presented in such a long post without breaks.
I agree with you. Please continue your thoughtful posts but break it up so that we may digest paragraph by paragraph.
Welcome to DU. You are in for quite a ride!
RiverLover
(7,830 posts)Your suggestions are good ones. Its hard to read all of those excellent points as it is now.
AZ Progressive
(3,411 posts)- https://www.yahoo.com/politics/hillarys-financial-armada-233033648.html
valerief
(53,235 posts)We need a legit Congress as well as a legit president.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Contract_with_America
http://www.motherjones.com/politics/1995/03/beyond-contract
Gingrich wanted to propose an agenda guaranteed to succeed. That's why, as Paxon points out, the most interesting items in the contract are the ones that are missing: school prayer; a constitutional amendment banning abortion; a federal version of California's Proposition 187; vouchers for home schooling or parochial schools; a flat tax; repealing affirmative action; gutting the Brady Law and the ban on assault weapons; not reauthorizing the Safe Drinking Water Act, Superfund program, Clean Air Act, and Americans with Disabilities Act.
Yet these missing items are the Republicans' real agenda, the ones they will test after the House finishes its jaunt through the political miniature golf course of the Contract with America. President Clinton will surely veto some socially regressive legislation. But if Republicans hold onto Congress and elect a president in 1996, these missing items will immediately rise to the top of America's governing agenda--and most of the laws Democrats have fought to enact since the days of John Kennedy could vanish or be greatly scaled back.
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libdem4life
(13,877 posts)Maedhros
(10,007 posts)
chillfactor
(7,694 posts)bernie supporters really do whine a lot....guess they prefer a republican president. Me I am a staunch, life-long Democrat...I will vote for whomever gets the nomination and not whine about it.
LibDemAlways
(15,139 posts)positions on the issues and record -- not gender, not turn in line.
I have yet to see a Hillary supporter here on DU, when asked to defend Hillary's record and her stands on the issues, provide a thoughtful reasoned answer. It's all cheerleading -- rah rah rah for a team that sucks.
I'll stick with the candidate whose views reflect my own, and whose stands on issues that matter are worth voting for. I'm with you. Bernie's the one.
LeFleur1
(1,197 posts)Hillary's record throughout many many years is very good, better than most.
She put forth a health care plan before Bernie thought about it. Of course the House and Senate were stunned that a First Lady would actually DARE do anything like that, and they rejected it.
She worked for women's and children's rights her whole adult life. Including getting bills passed for the health of children. ALL women and children, not just those of one color. AND she has tried to make the lives of women and children better worldwide.
She worked, as a Senator, to get bills that were introduced changed for the good, then passed.
She was an excellent Secretary of State in a time of upheaval.
Has she ever made a mistake? Yes, I'm sure she has. Unlike Bernie's supporters, she isn't perfect. She has reflected on things and changed her mind as any sane person would do now and then. Times change, and she has changed with them. Things weren't always as they are today. It's a positive that she can evaluate changes and either go along or not.
She has never voted to put a toxic dump in her state to my knowledge. She has always voted for safer gun laws.
I realize the blind will not see, still, it doesn't hurt to point out the truth now and then.
SkyIsGrey
(378 posts)that put into policy The crime bill (yes Sanders singed, but for violence against women; had reservations about the rest) and deregulations (Glass Steagall et al) pretty much nixed all that.
Gary 50
(483 posts)But you left out the other half of the story. Take your first point about health care. She fought for single payer healthcare (and thanked Bernie at the time for his lifelong support of that goal, so I guess he had thought about it). Now she is against it. You might call that evolving. I call it devolving. The difference between then and now is always the same. Money. Hillary Clinton is compromised by the money she has taken from the healthcare industry, the bankers and anyone else able to pay her several hundred thousand dollars per hour. She says she is absolutely immune to the influence this money is supposed to buy. If you believe that then vote for her with a clear conscience. I can't believe it.
Hillary Clinton is seen as the most dishonest and disliked candidate out there. She is a terrible campaigner. She is under investigation for, at best, using terrible judgment with her email server. Her repeated poor judgment (Iraq war vote, her speeches supporting the war, welfare reform, bad trade agreements) and her aggressive neocon foreign policy make her claims to be "progressive" unbelievable. Her admission that she really is a moderate in the center is closer to the truth. What's wrong with that? She is somewhat near the center of a party that has been dragged far to the right.
To all the Hillary supporters out there I have to say that yours is a deeply flawed candidate. It's not part of a vast right wing conspiracy (which did and does exist but is not the problem) when these flaws are pointed out. I have heard no defense of these problems with her character and record because I suspect there is none. She has been on every side of every issue and nobody knows where she stands because she is still evolving. Someone called her a "pathological evolver."
In the end I will vote for her if she is the nominee. The idea of a Rubio, Trump or Cruz presidency sends shivers down my spine and I would rather the slow descent into third world status continue than for us to take a giant leap in that direction under any of the mental midgets from crazy land.
TIME TO PANIC
(1,894 posts)
Godhumor
(6,437 posts)Just an observation.
grossproffit
(5,591 posts)I'm thinking, no.
HillareeeHillaraah
(685 posts)But is that how easy it is to gain a spot on the home page? Create an account, rip apart the Clintons and bam ! Exposure for your anti Democratic Party leaders views...at the DU? Heck I can read all of that drama over at Breitbart....
There should be a don't rec button to balance things out
grossproffit
(5,591 posts)They've become boorish.
Lizzie Poppet
(10,164 posts)...you'll be witnessing a precursor to a horrific loss in November.
Purrfessor
(1,190 posts)there is here between Democrats.
PeaceNikki
(27,985 posts)Response to Name removed (Original post)
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Buzz Clik
(38,437 posts)The never-ending sandernista mantra that all money is bad money.
So damned tiresome, particularly considering that Bernie has been indirectly tapping some of the same funds.
But, he's SO pure and good.
libdem4life
(13,877 posts)senz
(11,945 posts)Here is something good to know, Buzz Clik: learning to distinguish is good for our minds.
Politicub
(12,327 posts)It's like looking at a vast sea of grievances, yet says so little. You could have stopped with your subject line.
libdem4life
(13,877 posts)
world wide wally
(21,836 posts)LW1977
(1,611 posts)So sick of idiotic threads like this!
Jester Messiah
(4,711 posts)HERVEPA
(6,107 posts)But if Hillary wins, I'll vote for her, because she's 10 times better than many of the rethugs.
still_one
(98,883 posts)
hamsterjill
(17,184 posts)But IF she gets the nomination and then is defeated by a Republican, please do us the courtesy of NOT coming to a DEMOCRATIC website to bitch when The Donald puts us in a war or does some other destructive act. Don't bitch when Ted Cruz makes it okay to discriminate against LGBT persons, and by all means, don't bitch when Marco Rubio forces your sister, or some other female member of your family to bear the child of her rapist.
platitudipus
(64 posts)until Bernie Sanders IS the status quo.
Good OP BostonBob!
still_one
(98,883 posts)progressive.
Both Democratic candidates WILL vote for whoever the Democratic nominee is, because THEY actually have critical thinking skills, and realize that this is the most important election in most people's lifetime.
However, the Taibbi's excerpt, which doesn't have any links to it, leaves open if he will vote for the eventual Democratic nominee or not. That is NOT made clear. I have no doubt he won't vote for her in the primary, but if he also won't vote for the Democratic nominee in the general election if Hillary is the nominee, than this would be my response to Mr Taibbi:
http://thedailybanter.com/2016/02/sabotage-vote-for-bernie-sanders-idiots/
grossproffit
(5,591 posts) Excellent article. I appreciate your sharing it.Lizzie Poppet
(10,164 posts)If I don't vote for Hillary in November, it will be for a combination of reasons...but by far the largest is that she's no goddamn progressive.
In fact, the only thing that could possibly get me to vote for her is if my state (Oregon) actually looks to be in play in November. That's about as likely as ISIS opening a pulled pork food cart here in Portland.
SheenaR
(2,052 posts)There are many facets of the Democratic Party. Those who are far from the center where Sec. Clinton lies will have nobody to vote for who represents their core beliefs.
Especially when Trump is actually to the LEFT of Clinton on certain issues
Stuckinthebush
(11,201 posts)Take your ball and go home BS.
They've built a straw woman Hillary who personifies all that is wrong with the world. No wonder some can't stomach voting for her. They really must separate primaries fights from GE fights. Some primaries you win and some you lose. The specter of the 2000 debacle shows how voting for an ideological favorite can screw everyone for a long time. The GE is the time to be pragmatic. Most will be.
seattleite
(79 posts)But I have no allegiance to the Democratic Party, which has proven itself to be highly untrustworthy and entirely beholden to corporate interests. Hardly any better than the Republican Party.
And you don't get to decide who's a progressive and who isn't.
Wibly
(613 posts)This argument, that you have to vote Dem no matter what is weak. Fact is, if the DNC meddles in the process and puts Hilary Clinton forward as the nominee, without the legitimacy of the people behind her, through the use of super delegates, then the DNC will deserve to get trounced.
America is supposed to be a democracy. One person, one vote. If the people side with Sanders, then Sanders should be their nominee. If he wins the popular vote, but is displaced by superdelegates, then the DNC is not adhering to democracy, and would not deserve to be elected.
If Clinton can win the nomination without the superdelegates tipping the balance, then fine.
If Sanders is frozen out by the superdelegates than you can expect all the private money going to Sanders to go into backing an independent run by him. It will not automatically go to Clinton.
PowerToThePeople
(9,610 posts)basselope
(2,565 posts)It is up to them to win ME back... not the other way around.
Rather mysterious why this thread wasn't shut down. Must have lucked out on a favorable jury...
UtahLib
(3,181 posts)
BeatleBoot
(7,111 posts)ChiciB1
(15,435 posts)hard at work to make sure Hillary will be the nominee. Which is so UN-Democratic, but then I doubt they even care anymore!
Even once stalwart liberals who stood up against wrongs, have learned to kneel at the alter!
senz
(11,945 posts)Thank you for putting it so succinctly and well, BostonBob!
TNNurse
(7,510 posts)What will you do if she is the Democratic nominee???
Vote for the Republican? Not vote and therefore give the advantage to the Republican??
I really want to know.
Lizzie Poppet
(10,164 posts)...it will be because, as I expect, my state won't be in play in November. It would be very bizarre indeed if Oregon was even remotely close to going "red." Because Oregon's Electors all go to the popular vote winner, my vote is astronomically unlikely to matter in the least. I will, almost certainly, be free to vote (or not vote, in this case) as conscience dictates.
basselope
(2,565 posts)Ez to say b/c I live in Cali.
In a swing state I would suggest voting defensively and vote for the lesser of the two evils.
Luckily, i don't have to vote for evil.
cantbeserious
(13,039 posts)eom
secondwind
(16,903 posts)TeamPooka
(25,577 posts)Thread trashed and you're fully ignored noob.
Thanks for working for Trump though.
JDPriestly
(57,936 posts)I will vote for the other Democrats, all of them, on my ballot -- BUT NEVER FOR HILLARY.
She is not a Democrat.
CBHagman
(17,453 posts)...nothing to applaud here.
Then there's this:
[url]http://www.democraticunderground.com/?com=termsofservice[/url]
Vote for Democrats.
Winning elections is important — therefore, advocating in favor of Republican nominees or in favor of third-party spoiler candidates that could split the vote and throw an election to our conservative opponents is never permitted on Democratic Underground. But that does not mean that DU members are required to always be completely supportive of Democrats. During the ups-and-downs of politics and policy-making, it is perfectly normal to have mixed feelings about the Democratic officials we worked hard to help elect. When we are not in the heat of election season, members are permitted to post strong criticism or disappointment with our Democratic elected officials, or to express ambivalence about voting for them. In Democratic primaries, members may support whomever they choose. But when general election season begins, DU members must support Democratic nominees (EXCEPT in rare cases where a non-Democrat is most likely to defeat the conservative alternative, or where there is no possibility of splitting the liberal vote and inadvertently throwing the election to the conservative alternative). For presidential contests, election season begins when both major-party nominees become clear. For non-presidential contests, election season begins on Labor Day. Everyone here on DU needs to work together to elect more Democrats and fewer Republicans to all levels of American government. If you are bashing, trashing, undermining, or depressing turnout for our candidates during election season, we'll assume you are rooting for the other side.
Jezza
(30 posts)What many people don't know about Hilary, is that she used to be a hardcore Republican. She canvassed and campaigned for Republican Richard Nixon for President. She worked for Republican Barry Goldwater's campaign in 1964, and was even elected president of Wellesley College's Young Republicans club. --- there is a history worth studying;
Sinan
(15 posts)If Hillary wins and you do not vote for her then you are voting for Trump. I don't care if your state is in play or not, your vote in Oregon could tip the balance especially if you succeed in convincing others to follow you while you are having a teenage tantrum if Bernie does not win. Four open seats on SCOTUS for next POTUS, line up all of you people.
Tierra_y_Libertad
(50,414 posts)0 - 0 does not equal 1
Anti
(14 posts)I won't ever vote for her too
zappaman
(20,627 posts)Did you have a good sleep?
I went to bed late so a little slow today.
Vote2016
(1,198 posts)
Land of Enchantment
(1,217 posts)she is so enamored of her own self-creation she actually believes she will win this. I am mortified of another 2 for 1 Clinton White House. Been there, done that and it sucked big time. She is Windows 1953.
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kjones
(1,059 posts)Which kind of reinforces my opinion that I've sided with level-headed reality on this one.
tl;dr - Just read the damn thing people!
---
There's a huge disconnect between the urgency that (some) Sanders' supporters express
for his nomination...that Bernie is the only answer to every crisis and failing to nominate
him is a mistake of apocalyptic consequence-
and the ease with which those same supporters are willing to burn it all down.
So really, is it important, or is it something you can toy with and tear it all down
when you get mad because you only got 93% of what you wanted?
Please, tell me why someone would be so willing to blow up what they, themselves,
profess is of dire importance.
Me, I think it's so important, I'd readily vote for Bernie, someone who my respect for
has plummeted in the past few months, rather than let it go down in flames.
Guess some people really just want to salt the earth after a loss. "If we can't
have it, nobody can." And I don't want to play with those kinds of people.
Luckily for America, it's an apocalyptic vision that generally turns off minorities
and the oppressed, who really just want things to get better. So, such attitudes
are only exacerbating an existing problem in the Bernie camp.
So I guess the willingness to surrender to the Republicans rather than band together
with allies (well, in good faith, we wanted that) is the uncompromising Achilles Heel
which will continue to continue to perpetuate their unreliability on a national stage.
The country is getting browner, not whiter; diverse, not homogenous. Movements
which don't foster broad appeal on a large number of diverse issues can no longer
overcome demographics.
What will really drive the party to the left is if those most to the left stick around,
remain politically active, and continue to ask hard questions - if there's one positive
of this primary, it's that Bernie asks some hard questions. However, if instead, those
out on the left continue sitting out, as they have frequently in the recent past
(midterms...so often), the party will away from the left.
Bernie is a bridge too far for a lot of people, and even if the party as a whole was
closer to him, I'm sorry, but he's simply not a good candidate. His focus is narrow,
appeal narrow, experience narrow...and he's not even begun to be vetted.
Had he run in '08, and managed to weather that little worse for the wear, I think
he'd stand to have been more viable. He did not though.
Bernie came to the party because he knew running away from it wasn't going to
win him any election, or win the country any moral/practical/legislative victories.
He needed relevancy, and I have to admit, he's done very well. If he wants to
make substantial change, he (and his supporters) need to capitalize on the
relevancy and profile they have now gained in the party.
This IS a tremendous moment, and if the middle left and far left play it right, we
are set for historic gains. The Republicans, and more generally the right, are
in more disarray than I certainly have ever seen them in, or am even aware of.
The look more petulant and disgusting than they ever have, and America, the
rational part of it, sees this, and is repulsed. Even those on the rational
right-of-center are appalled. All we, the left, have to do is stay steadfast.
Furthermore, we have the chance to replace one, two, perhaps three (who knows?)
justices. For a powerful branch of government that has ONLY NINE MEMBERS...
that's a fantastic opportunity for gains. The Republicans are salivating with thoughts
of overturning Roe v Wade, Healthcare, additional campaign shenanigans,...who knows
what else?
Bernie won't get the nomination...well, I don't think so...and not just because I'm for
Clinton. However, Bernie has FAR from "lost" this primary. He's motivated a lot of
non-voters, he's mobilized them, he's modified political conversations, and he's gained
a level of prominence. For the far left, if this is NOT just about Bernie as a personality,
and really is about issues, then they have won a fabulous victory in strengthening their
relevance, and...though it may not be Bernie...WILL have "Yuuuge" roles in the future
of the party.
So, are we going to be friends far into the future, or are we going to let our small
differences turn into a Republican, authoritarian wet dream?
GoneFishin
(5,217 posts)work up a good yawn for her.
A vote for Hillary in the primary is a vote for Trump in the GE.
Juicy_Bellows
(2,427 posts)
MisterP
(23,730 posts)surprise you"
or "if you don't vote for the candidate that independents hate who leads the faction that's lost 11 Governors, 13 Senators, 69 Reps, and 913 state seats--evidently with aforethought because they'd rather keep the party conservative than let it win--her loss will be YOUR fault!"