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Sat Feb 27, 2016, 12:40 PM

 

Do you know a really rich person?

You might ask what does this post have to do with the primaries?

I'll tell you.

For 17 years I worked in an industry where I handled peoples prized possessions on a daily basis .
I won't say what I did but these ranged from 1 million up to 80 million

I would talk and engage with these owners on a daily basis . Most were polite but the one thing EVERYONE OF THEM
had in common was they didn't think of them selves as equals with us. They had no idea or could comprehend
the personal struggles we might be going through whether it was to make your next car payment , pay for a funeral,
make your mortgage payment , pay your rent , pay your deductible on your hospital bill , pay the garage for repair
on your car when it breaks down. I could make a list of things but you get my drift on this.


They live in a different world than you or I. Life is different for them.

Now you might ask why is this relevant to post in this forum?

Hillary Clinton does not understand regular people anymore . Maybe she did many, many years ago but not anymore

She is the same kind of person I had to deal with every day. We have a person also running that I feel does connect with me.
Does understand what we are going through on a real life daily basis .

Lets get this done

Lets move away from the 1% just this once folks. Lets elect a man with honor and integrity .

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Reply Do you know a really rich person? (Original post)
togetherforever Feb 2016 OP
Buzz Clik Feb 2016 #1
valerief Feb 2016 #3
Buzz Clik Feb 2016 #7
sulphurdunn Feb 2016 #75
dchill Feb 2016 #138
w0nderer Feb 2016 #148
Purrfessor Feb 2016 #161
sulphurdunn Feb 2016 #198
Purrfessor Feb 2016 #199
sulphurdunn Feb 2016 #200
ultragreen Feb 2016 #203
Purrfessor Feb 2016 #207
marions ghost Feb 2016 #214
Purrfessor Feb 2016 #226
marions ghost Feb 2016 #230
Purrfessor Feb 2016 #237
marions ghost Feb 2016 #239
Purrfessor Feb 2016 #244
marions ghost Feb 2016 #247
Purrfessor Feb 2016 #251
marions ghost Feb 2016 #257
7962 Feb 2016 #119
merrily Feb 2016 #160
TIME TO PANIC Feb 2016 #51
erlewyne Feb 2016 #65
Kittycat Feb 2016 #112
merrily Feb 2016 #154
Fantastic Anarchist Feb 2016 #212
99th_Monkey Feb 2016 #10
Buzz Clik Feb 2016 #14
99th_Monkey Feb 2016 #22
Buzz Clik Feb 2016 #26
99th_Monkey Feb 2016 #31
packman Feb 2016 #69
PonyUp Feb 2016 #87
Post removed Feb 2016 #126
Divernan Feb 2016 #79
marions ghost Feb 2016 #216
creatives4innovation Feb 2016 #81
Major Nikon Feb 2016 #71
99th_Monkey Feb 2016 #89
Major Nikon Feb 2016 #98
99th_Monkey Feb 2016 #101
Major Nikon Feb 2016 #102
99th_Monkey Feb 2016 #103
Major Nikon Feb 2016 #108
99th_Monkey Feb 2016 #113
Punx Feb 2016 #109
Major Nikon Feb 2016 #110
Punx Feb 2016 #121
newthinking Feb 2016 #152
marions ghost Feb 2016 #218
newthinking Feb 2016 #248
marions ghost Feb 2016 #249
JDPriestly Feb 2016 #125
Mr.Bill Feb 2016 #127
merrily Feb 2016 #162
Major Nikon Feb 2016 #163
merrily Feb 2016 #166
Major Nikon Feb 2016 #172
merrily Feb 2016 #173
Marty McGraw Feb 2016 #259
JDPriestly Feb 2016 #118
kristopher Feb 2016 #131
merrily Feb 2016 #167
Divernan Feb 2016 #217
merrily Feb 2016 #255
mainer Feb 2016 #186
Spitfire of ATJ Feb 2016 #193
Petrushka Feb 2016 #204
marions ghost Feb 2016 #215
SoLeftIAmRight Feb 2016 #19
Buzz Clik Feb 2016 #24
SoLeftIAmRight Feb 2016 #30
Major Nikon Feb 2016 #82
SoLeftIAmRight Feb 2016 #85
Major Nikon Feb 2016 #91
Tab Feb 2016 #129
merrily Feb 2016 #164
Major Nikon Feb 2016 #171
libtodeath Feb 2016 #44
Hydra Feb 2016 #111
libtodeath Feb 2016 #122
Purrfessor Feb 2016 #165
Recursion Feb 2016 #189
Akamai Feb 2016 #105
w0nderer Feb 2016 #151
Akamai Feb 2016 #183
marions ghost Feb 2016 #219
JDPriestly Feb 2016 #117
7962 Feb 2016 #130
questionseverything Feb 2016 #134
questionseverything Feb 2016 #133
togetherforever Feb 2016 #136
TNNurse Feb 2016 #146
togetherforever Feb 2016 #149
TNNurse Feb 2016 #155
marions ghost Feb 2016 #243
rhett o rick Feb 2016 #139
merrily Feb 2016 #153
elljay Feb 2016 #206
ultragreen Feb 2016 #201
ultragreen Feb 2016 #202
Albertoo Feb 2016 #228
valerief Feb 2016 #2
stillwaiting Feb 2016 #12
libtodeath Feb 2016 #45
merrily Feb 2016 #168
tazkcmo Feb 2016 #4
Thinkingabout Feb 2016 #5
grasswire Feb 2016 #11
Punkingal Feb 2016 #41
davidthegnome Feb 2016 #61
Punkingal Feb 2016 #13
Old Crow Feb 2016 #55
togetherforever Feb 2016 #66
7962 Feb 2016 #124
passiveporcupine Feb 2016 #180
marions ghost Feb 2016 #220
PowerToThePeople Feb 2016 #6
feathateathn Feb 2016 #35
PowerToThePeople Feb 2016 #38
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Hydra Feb 2016 #115
marions ghost Feb 2016 #222
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marions ghost Feb 2016 #221
AZ Progressive Feb 2016 #253
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tk2kewl Feb 2016 #15
Le Taz Hot Feb 2016 #17
jberryhill Feb 2016 #33
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passiveporcupine Feb 2016 #181
togetherforever Feb 2016 #53
Divernan Feb 2016 #100
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hobbit709 Feb 2016 #18
mainstreetonce Feb 2016 #144
stonecutter357 Feb 2016 #20
Post removed Feb 2016 #27
Mudcat Feb 2016 #21
mainer Feb 2016 #25
togetherforever Feb 2016 #32
Hiraeth Feb 2016 #28
MisterP Feb 2016 #78
DemocratSinceBirth Feb 2016 #29
marions ghost Feb 2016 #224
DemocratSinceBirth Feb 2016 #235
UglyGreed Feb 2016 #34
Hassin Bin Sober Feb 2016 #43
UglyGreed Feb 2016 #176
madokie Feb 2016 #36
Tikki Feb 2016 #37
Punkingal Feb 2016 #39
magical thyme Feb 2016 #40
NRaleighLiberal Feb 2016 #46
MaggieD Feb 2016 #47
Loudestlib Feb 2016 #104
zalinda Feb 2016 #48
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mainer Feb 2016 #72
Rebkeh Feb 2016 #50
Martin Eden Feb 2016 #52
ismnotwasm Feb 2016 #54
dorkzilla Feb 2016 #56
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narnian60 Feb 2016 #58
LiberalArkie Feb 2016 #59
Snerd Feb 2016 #60
Skittles Feb 2016 #93
jalan48 Feb 2016 #62
marions ghost Feb 2016 #225
EffieBlack Feb 2016 #63
frazzled Feb 2016 #70
onenote Feb 2016 #92
JI7 Feb 2016 #145
ellennelle Feb 2016 #150
PatrickforO Feb 2016 #64
jg10003 Feb 2016 #67
davidthegnome Feb 2016 #68
senz Feb 2016 #73
MisterP Feb 2016 #74
barbtries Feb 2016 #76
Half-Century Man Feb 2016 #77
7wo7rees Feb 2016 #83
Nitram Feb 2016 #86
marions ghost Feb 2016 #229
Juicy_Bellows Feb 2016 #88
Cleita Feb 2016 #90
JohnnyRingo Feb 2016 #94
PonyUp Feb 2016 #95
PatrynXX Feb 2016 #96
Rebkeh Feb 2016 #97
greymouse Feb 2016 #99
shanti Feb 2016 #107
JDPriestly Feb 2016 #114
FairWinds Feb 2016 #116
togetherforever Feb 2016 #137
closeupready Feb 2016 #120
Tab Feb 2016 #123
olddots Feb 2016 #128
malokvale77 Feb 2016 #132
Lodestar Feb 2016 #135
EffieBlack Feb 2016 #185
kgnu_fan Feb 2016 #140
steve2470 Feb 2016 #141
Festivito Feb 2016 #142
Spitfire of ATJ Feb 2016 #143
valerief Feb 2016 #156
SciDude Feb 2016 #147
JustAMaverick Feb 2016 #157
ananda Feb 2016 #158
Dont call me Shirley Feb 2016 #159
merrily Feb 2016 #169
zentrum Feb 2016 #170
NNadir Feb 2016 #174
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Loki Feb 2016 #175
mainer Feb 2016 #182
blm Feb 2016 #177
deathrind Feb 2016 #178
kerry-is-my-prez Feb 2016 #179
kimbutgar Feb 2016 #184
Sen. Walter Sobchak Feb 2016 #187
Recursion Feb 2016 #188
mainer Feb 2016 #190
marions ghost Feb 2016 #236
mainer Feb 2016 #240
marions ghost Feb 2016 #241
mainer Feb 2016 #242
marions ghost Feb 2016 #246
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Denis 11 Feb 2016 #192
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katmille Feb 2016 #195
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brewens Feb 2016 #196
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LibDemAlways Feb 2016 #197
Petrushka Feb 2016 #205
braddy Feb 2016 #208
pdsimdars Feb 2016 #209
marions ghost Feb 2016 #232
loyalsister Feb 2016 #210
BainsBane Feb 2016 #211
LAS14 Feb 2016 #223
marions ghost Feb 2016 #231
mainer Feb 2016 #250
marions ghost Feb 2016 #256
ladjf Feb 2016 #227
Doctor_J Feb 2016 #233
UglyGreed Feb 2016 #245

Response to togetherforever (Original post)

Sat Feb 27, 2016, 12:43 PM

1. I personally know some CEOs of huge corporations and plenty of filthy rich people

 

Your comments do not apply to any of them.

Every now and then you run into a spoiled, entitled spouse who acts like their shit doesn't stink, but the vast majority are wonderful people.

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Response to Buzz Clik (Reply #1)

Sat Feb 27, 2016, 12:45 PM

3. Good lord, how are you not on my Forever Ignored list? nt

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Response to valerief (Reply #3)

Sat Feb 27, 2016, 12:48 PM

7. No idea.

 

One of the CEOs I know (international petroleum) lived in a trailer as an undergrad. The floor rotted out one day when he was in it. From the bottom to the top. This is a real person who gets it.

Let's not be quick to judge.

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Response to Buzz Clik (Reply #7)

Sat Feb 27, 2016, 02:30 PM

75. Yup, just plain folk.

 

Salt of the earth. Give you the shirts off their backs. Might even pee on you if you were on fire.

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Response to sulphurdunn (Reply #75)

Sat Feb 27, 2016, 05:03 PM

138. Snort!

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Response to sulphurdunn (Reply #75)

Sat Feb 27, 2016, 06:01 PM

148. Splains the concept of 'trickle down' n/t

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Response to sulphurdunn (Reply #75)

Sat Feb 27, 2016, 06:39 PM

161. You sound like a very hateful person.

In your opinion, how much money does one have to obtain before they turn into the kind of nasty person you perceive? What is the dividing line so I can determine whether I have crossed it or not?

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Response to Purrfessor (Reply #161)

Sat Feb 27, 2016, 10:50 PM

198. You sound like a very judgemental, credulous and servile kind of person.

 

Am I close?

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Response to sulphurdunn (Reply #198)

Sat Feb 27, 2016, 11:27 PM

199. My comment to you is not a judgment but an observation.

That is how your sarcasm comes across.

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Response to Purrfessor (Reply #199)

Sat Feb 27, 2016, 11:33 PM

200. Uh-huh

 

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Response to Purrfessor (Reply #161)

Sun Feb 28, 2016, 12:17 AM

203. How much more money and wealth

 

do the rich have to grab from everyone else before we are allowed to regard them as a nasty group of people? The wealth inequality problem in the United States is becoming worse and worse. Most of us don't want to see our lives destroyed by their greed.

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Response to ultragreen (Reply #203)

Sun Feb 28, 2016, 01:25 AM

207. Define rich.

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Response to Purrfessor (Reply #161)

Sun Feb 28, 2016, 08:16 AM

214. Money divides

I have seen it even in my own family. When people get money, they change. They become more conservative, because that's how you protect your money. And then in this materialistic culture, they usually turn into super consumers. Yuk.

This is my opinion. I'm sure you don't see it and don't agree, because that is the nature of how the divide works.

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Response to marions ghost (Reply #214)

Sun Feb 28, 2016, 09:39 AM

226. My problem is the notion that everyone who attains a certain level and of wealth...

Is a nasty, greedy self-serving jerk. There a people like the Koch brothers who fit this description. And then there are people whose net worth might be $5 million dollars, people who saved and invested wisely over a 25 year career who are the very same people now as when they first started working.

My point is that there are jerks at every income level, and that it is wrong to judge a person's integrity or lack of integrity based solely on their financial status.

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Response to Purrfessor (Reply #226)

Sun Feb 28, 2016, 09:59 AM

230. It's OK to be suspicious

of a rich person's motives. Guilty til proven innocent, I realize. But that is the safest approach. In general it is ALL about moi, with the rich--though there may be distinctions and exceptions--we are talking about the dominant tendency.

We have suffered immensely by giving the rich so much power and influence in this country. That in itself is an indicator of their motives as a group. Especially in the business sector, if average people are hurting --that is an indicator to them that they are doing something RIGHT.

Of course there are exceptions but the generalization holds true. The evidence of the last decades in America illustrates it. The very existence of the Koch brothers and the like proves it. But there are LOTS of "enablers' shoring them up. LOTS of people who will do anything and everything to protect their hoard--at every income level. Surely you know this.

The problem is, the greedy at higher income levels have the power. And they are abusing it.

So go ahead and take up for them with platitudes. It's a common reaction.

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Response to marions ghost (Reply #230)

Sun Feb 28, 2016, 10:26 AM

237. So by your logic we should be suspicious of all poor people...

since some of them take advantage of safety-net programs. Or perhaps we should be suspicious of all Syrian refugees because some have links to ISIS. Or we should be suspicious of all Hispanics because some are here illegally.

Personally, I choose not to be suspicious of an entire group of people based on the actions of some within the group.

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Response to Purrfessor (Reply #237)

Sun Feb 28, 2016, 10:39 AM

239. False analogy

I sympathize with those who would take advantage of ANY safety net program if they could (and the numbers are not large for that anyway).

I sympathize with those who would risk their lives to come to this country for a better life for their families, Syrians, Hispanics--all the "others" you care to name.

It's not convincing to cite the problem caused by the exceptions. I'm talking about the social health of the country as a whole. And that has been severely compromised by rich corporatists and their enablers.
And their abuse is clearly evident at this point.

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Response to marions ghost (Reply #239)

Sun Feb 28, 2016, 11:59 AM

244. And Im not defending rich corporatists and their

enablers. I'm opposing the idea of linking everyone who has achieved a certain financial status, who some define as rich but have yet to place a number on their definition of rich, with corporatists and their enablers.

Let's edit the definition of racial profiling and rename it to fit the new definition.

Financial profiling: the act of suspecting or targeting a person of a certain group based on a stereotype about their financial status.

Banks use financial profiling to determine credit scores and levels of credit they offer. You seem to be using it as a broad brush to paint everyone you define as "rich" as being greedy and self-serving to the detriment of all others.

I would hope you disapprove of racial profiling. And I don't see a difference between you being suspicious of all "rich" people and Conservatives who are suspicious of all poor people. Both are forms of stereotyping.

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Response to Purrfessor (Reply #244)

Sun Feb 28, 2016, 12:16 PM

247. The social group you identify with--ie. the Rich

(no matter how the money is made) -- IS the group largely committing egregious exploitation (even crimes) and serial abuses in America at this point--and I should give them a break?

Sure, I freely admit that I am suspicious of all rich people (and I have been around and am closely related to a few--& have interacted with some who are national figures--just to say I DO know the territory). Guilty til proven innocent works for me (which is saying that there are some who are not so bad, but you must be VERY wary).

Sorry if you feel tarred by the broad brush but the brush has to be pretty big to cover the number of abusers and their enablers. And their apologists.

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Response to marions ghost (Reply #247)

Sun Feb 28, 2016, 02:10 PM

251. I don't identify with any group. Neither am I an apologist for any group.

Since you seem to believe that all "rich" people, or at least a very large majority are suspect and egregious exploiters based on your interactions with a few, then go for it. Out of curiosity, how about putting a number of what you consider rich. I'd be interested to know what percentage of the population you suspect.

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Response to Purrfessor (Reply #251)

Sun Feb 28, 2016, 11:32 PM

257. I think we all KNOW what numbers describe the Rich

wealthy people usually know they are among the wealthy and privileged and identify with that group.

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Response to Buzz Clik (Reply #7)

Sat Feb 27, 2016, 03:23 PM

119. What an odd response to your very simple statement.

 

You're to be ignored because you happen to know some rich folks who are nice? You BASTARD!! How dare you?

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Response to Buzz Clik (Reply #7)

Sat Feb 27, 2016, 06:38 PM

160. Yes, and the Romneys used an ironing board as a dining table while he was in school.

That still does not amount to an understanding of grinding poverty for your entire life, including while you are raising your kids.

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Response to valerief (Reply #3)

Sat Feb 27, 2016, 01:51 PM

51. +1 LOL!

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Response to valerief (Reply #3)

Sat Feb 27, 2016, 02:09 PM

65. made my day!!!

Oh so funny valerief!!!

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Response to valerief (Reply #3)

Sat Feb 27, 2016, 03:13 PM

112. Lmao

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Response to valerief (Reply #3)

Sat Feb 27, 2016, 06:15 PM

154. It can be interesting to see how far some will go.

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Response to valerief (Reply #3)

Sun Feb 28, 2016, 05:48 AM

212. Comic relief?

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Response to Buzz Clik (Reply #1)

Sat Feb 27, 2016, 12:48 PM

10. Well then Clinton is clearly the candidate for you.

 

Study after study has shown that the richer people are, the less % of their wealth
they share with others more in need. There are exceptions, of course, but they are
exceptions, not the rule.

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Response to 99th_Monkey (Reply #10)

Sat Feb 27, 2016, 12:49 PM

14. Yeah, I guess you know my friends better than I.

 

Must be awesome.

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Response to Buzz Clik (Reply #14)

Sat Feb 27, 2016, 12:58 PM

22. I guess when you're 'part of the club' or useful to them in some way,

 

the world looks different than it does for us 'little people'

Must be awesome.

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Response to 99th_Monkey (Reply #22)

Sat Feb 27, 2016, 01:00 PM

26. My, my. Judge much?

 

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Response to Buzz Clik (Reply #26)

Sat Feb 27, 2016, 01:04 PM

31. Just taking you at your word. nt

 

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Response to 99th_Monkey (Reply #31)

Sat Feb 27, 2016, 02:17 PM

69. Seems like someone likes the warm glow of the rich

and is trying out for the lap-dog position. There may be a place for him in the cubby hole at the bottom of the stairs. Sort of like, "Some of my best friends are...(fill in the blank)"

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Response to packman (Reply #69)

Sat Feb 27, 2016, 02:45 PM

87. Lap-dog position and cubby hole. LMAO

 

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Response to Buzz Clik (Reply #26)


Response to Buzz Clik (Reply #14)

Sat Feb 27, 2016, 02:36 PM

79. Friends are people we socialize with. If you have all these rich friends,

either you "carry your weight", i.e., pay your own way and are equally wealthy yourself, or for some reason one of them pays your share. If the they pick up the tab for you, why would that be?

Would these very wealthy people describe you to their peers as "a friend"? So you go somewhere like a pro football game, and they sit in the luxury sky boxes and you sit in the bleachers? You vacation together and they fly private jet and you travel coach on Southwest? They stay en suite at the Four Seasons on Nevis Island and you camp in a tent on the beach? You go out to pricey restaurants and you say you're not really hungry and nibble on the amuse bouche? Do you end up spending money you can't afford in order to keep up with the Joneses?

I belong to an organization with a woman who is constantly name dropping about her very important, high ranking, political friends. In her version, they call her all the time, ask her opinion on what they should do and say, and she is always invited to their parties. In reality, she gets solicitation calls for donations, mailed opinion surveys, and is invited to fund-raising events.

I have some very wealthy family members, and an impoverished, single niece with 4 kids (through a combination of divorce, job loss, health problems, mortgage foreclosure, ending in a homeless shelter - but now thank god, employed again and able to rent a house). The wealthy ones get together every other Christmas for a 10 day, 5 star holiday in St. John's and ignore other family members; those of us in the middle - like me and my adult kids - give as generously as we can to the (working) poor family members, i.e., helping them catch up on their rent, pay their electric bills and getting some fun presents for the youngest children. When I asked my multi-millionaire brother and his fat-ass, never worked a day in her life wife, to help out with a few hundred for his niece's (her dad/our brother died decades ago) auto repair, I was told by my rich bitch sister-in-law, that they didn't believe in charity. It was character building for people to pull themselves up by their bootstraps and handle their problems on their own. Oh, and all of the wealthy branch are registered Dems, although I don't know that they ever donate to any candidates

And finally, I worked on the last census, personally tracking down and contacting very wealthy people, often in gated communities or on large estates surrounded by walls and security gates with cameras and intercoms, who couldn't be bothered to return their census forms. My fellow census workers were retired professionals - high school teachers, college professors, engineers, and me - a lawyer. All well-spoken, nicely dressed, well-mannered. You'd have thought we were a band of traveling gypsies, casing their palatial estates for criminal activities.

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Response to Divernan (Reply #79)

Sun Feb 28, 2016, 08:27 AM

216. I have seen this, and second what you have said

The rich are the stingiest. Never mind their tax write-offs.

Yeah, being poor is "character-building." That is definitely out there.

When my Mom was in a hospital long term there was a nursing aid assigned to her, a woman with two high school age kids and a troubled alcoholic husband. We would share the food we had brought with her--my Mom's favorite little treats --because it was obvious that this woman working for minimum wage, had no lunch or money to buy it.

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Response to Buzz Clik (Reply #14)

Sat Feb 27, 2016, 02:36 PM

81. This is a generalization and may not apply to your friends

 

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Response to 99th_Monkey (Reply #10)

Sat Feb 27, 2016, 02:20 PM

71. Which means pretty much squat

For one thing, I seriously doubt any study is going to differentiate between giving money to "others more in need" and giving money to Kenneth Copeland. For another, there's plenty of people at all income levels who give nothing outside of just paying taxes. That certainly doesn't accurately reflect what they think of anyone who makes less than they do.

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Response to Major Nikon (Reply #71)

Sat Feb 27, 2016, 02:46 PM

89. Like it or not: "Income inequality makes the rich more Scrooge-like".

 

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Response to 99th_Monkey (Reply #89)

Sat Feb 27, 2016, 02:52 PM

98. Mitt Romney gave 30% of his income to charity in one year

What does the "science" say about that?

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Response to Major Nikon (Reply #98)

Sat Feb 27, 2016, 02:54 PM

101. Good for him. Is Mitt one of your heroes ? n/t

 

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Response to 99th_Monkey (Reply #101)

Sat Feb 27, 2016, 02:56 PM

102. Your "science" shows he's one of yours, no?

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Response to Major Nikon (Reply #102)

Sat Feb 27, 2016, 02:58 PM

103. He's certainly an exception to the rule, yes.

 

but that doesn't make him a "hero" in my book.

He no doubt got big tax write-offs for it .. maybe it went to the Clinton Foundation?

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Response to 99th_Monkey (Reply #103)

Sat Feb 27, 2016, 03:08 PM

108. I suspect most of it went to the Mormon church

The same church that demands a 10% tithe from it's members, yet only gives a fraction of 1 percent of its income to "others more in need". So there's a few million more "exceptions" for your "science" to chew on, not to mention all the other religious giving which accounts for far more than half of all charitable giving in the US. I also suspect that pretty much all charitable giving in the US has a lot to do with tax write-offs unless there's a significant number of people out there giving money away and not claiming it.

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Response to Major Nikon (Reply #108)

Sat Feb 27, 2016, 03:14 PM

113. Damn, you're right. I forgot about Mitt's funny underwear. nt

 

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Response to Major Nikon (Reply #98)

Sat Feb 27, 2016, 03:09 PM

109. I suspect a lot of that went to the Morman Church

Not exactly a charity in my opinion.

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Response to Punx (Reply #109)

Sat Feb 27, 2016, 03:11 PM

110. Which is pretty much my point

Most of the charitable giving in the US goes to religious organizations, and very little of that actually goes to people who really need it.

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Response to Major Nikon (Reply #110)

Sat Feb 27, 2016, 03:24 PM

121. Well we agree here

btw, I had neighbors who were Mormans for several years, and while I didn't agree with their politics, they were excellent neighbors.

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Response to Major Nikon (Reply #110)

Sat Feb 27, 2016, 06:12 PM

152. Wealthy give more dollars: Poor give more proportionally.

And the poor give more to social charities.

There is definitely a difference between how and where charity is given and I think that the point that the more wealth you have the less you help the poor (proportionally and possibly in real dollars by averages) is quite true.

It only makes sense.



http://www.theatlantic.com/magazine/archive/2013/04/why-the-rich-dont-give/309254/


Wealth affects not only how much money is given but to whom it is given. The poor tend to give to religious organizations and social-service charities, while the wealthy prefer to support colleges and universities, arts organizations, and museums. Of the 50 largest individual gifts to public charities in 2012, 34 went to educational institutions, the vast majority of them colleges and universities, like Harvard, Columbia, and Berkeley, that cater to the nation’s and the world’s elite. Museums and arts organizations such as the Metropolitan Museum of Art received nine of these major gifts, with the remaining donations spread among medical facilities and fashionable charities like the Central Park Conservancy. Not a single one of them went to a social-service organization or to a charity that principally serves the poor and the dispossessed. More gifts in this group went to elite prep schools (one, to the Hackley School in Tarrytown, New York) than to any of our nation’s largest social-service organizations, including United Way, the Salvation Army, and Feeding America (which got, among them, zero).

Last year, not one of the top 50 individual charitable gifts went to a social-service organization or to a charity that principally serves the poor and the dispossessed.

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Response to newthinking (Reply #152)

Sun Feb 28, 2016, 09:02 AM

218. Agree, except that

Museums and local arts orgs ARE available to the public generally. And if the rich didn't fund them, nobody would, these days. So I'm not sure that is such a bad thing.

Certainly bigtime art buying and support is a tax write-off for the rich. They can buy some art work and if it goes to a museum right away, they get big tax benefits. So it's a trickle down thing. When the rich want to create a home for their collection, they fund a museum. When the rich fund art-related venues, they can skew what types of art are shown, reflecting only the values of the Plutocracy. But since there is so little public funding of the arts now, the rich are seen as heroes in this--saviors and guardians of tangible cultural capital. They also fund music and performance arts.

So I'm ambivalent about this. But with a country where there is so much need in other directions, and people don't even have access to health care, it is hard to argue for the arts to get public funds--we might have to dip into the vast resources flowing to the military industrial sector to do that.

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Response to marions ghost (Reply #218)

Sun Feb 28, 2016, 12:28 PM

248. Agreed, we absolutely need to support the arts too

My primary point was that the rich lose the ability to empathize outside their class. And when the wealthy own so much of all the resources that means that the poor suffer.

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Response to newthinking (Reply #248)

Sun Feb 28, 2016, 12:38 PM

249. Totally with you on that

--the lack of empathy of the Haves, with those "below" them. The way that resources have been hoarded at the expense of the majority is literally killing the poor and giving the rest of us many sleepless nights.

Support for artists, musicians and performers--who are generally not wealthy unless they make it super big, is part of a fair shake that even liberals sometimes don't understand. I'm just making that point--that when you are struggling to make it, everything suffers.

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Response to Major Nikon (Reply #98)

Sat Feb 27, 2016, 03:31 PM

125. Mitt Romney is a Mormon. I am familiar with Mormon charities.

Usually rich people (not especially talking about Romney here because I don't know what he gave to) give in a way that reserves to them a feeling of control and power.

They sometimes, maybe even often, give to avoid paying taxes.

In other words, they give with certain emotional and intellectual strings attached.

Also, giving may alleviate some of their guilt about having so much when others have so little.

I worked for a homeless non-profit for some years.

The giving of the rich is not what it looks like. It is often but not always less selfless than the giving of the middle class or the poor. There are all kinds of hiccups with it, strings attached, control, recognition, all sorts of very strange aspects to it -- even sexual domination. It's kind of a world of its own.

I remember one family that set up a foundation, a charitable foundation for the family. The first job of the foundation was to write the family's history and publish the story. That was years ago, and it may no longer be possible to deduct such an inane "charitable donation" from taxes.

I suggest that you read the recent book about the Koch family by Jane Mayer, Dark Money is the name I think.

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Response to Major Nikon (Reply #98)

Sat Feb 27, 2016, 03:33 PM

127. Did your source say what charities?

Because I don't consider giving money to the Mormon church so they can pursue placing anti-gay marriage initiatives in the California ballot "charity".

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Response to Major Nikon (Reply #98)

Sat Feb 27, 2016, 06:43 PM

162. The Mormon Church and related organizations, I take it?

Not that there's anything wrong with that. However, I do see a difference between being a huge donor to the church to which you belong and that gives you a high rank in the church, versus donating to goodwill.

Another thing rich people get away with is donating some painting or other art work and valuing it at 100 times what they they paid for it two years ago, then taking the bloated amount as a charitable deduction. Not say he's done that, but I do know people who have.

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Response to merrily (Reply #162)

Sat Feb 27, 2016, 06:46 PM

163. Nixon paid almost no taxes despite reporting over a million $ in income while he was presidunce

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Response to Major Nikon (Reply #163)

Sat Feb 27, 2016, 06:57 PM

166. I am not seeing the connection between that and what I said. As to Romney, however, he

had to pay more than he owed in order to live up to his claim that he never paid less than 13.5% of his income. Of course, he had also claimed that he never paid a cent more than he owed, so he had to pick which claim to belie. Given his hundreds of millions, that makes Nixon look good.

However, he did attempt either a tax scam on Utah or an electoral scam on Massachusetts, by claiming to be a Utah resident for purposes of playing a lower state tax and, during the same time perio, claiming to have been a Massachusetts resident for purposes of running for Governor. And, it was kind of obvious that he knew he was scamming because he did not check that he was a Utah resident or not. He left that part blank. He just paid the right amount for a Utah resident.

This came out when someone challenged his residency for purposes of running for Governor. What he did was pay Utah the difference and the Democrats in Massachusetts let him run.

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Response to merrily (Reply #166)

Sat Feb 27, 2016, 07:33 PM

172. Nixon's tax scam involved the donation of significantly overvalued writings

So it was an example of what you described, which eventually led to the passage of the AMT in an attempt to capture those types of scams. Romney's scam was more elaborate and involved an investment strategy that paid him dividends and was thinly veiled as a religious donation.

The connection back to my original point was that trying to correlate statistics on charitable donations with genuine sympathy for those less fortunate has inherent flaws.

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Response to Major Nikon (Reply #172)

Sat Feb 27, 2016, 07:37 PM

173. Ok, I get it now. You hadn't mentioned the overvalued writings initially. Your original point is

very valid. Charitable donations, even if totally legit, don't reflect much.

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Response to Major Nikon (Reply #98)

Sun Feb 28, 2016, 11:50 PM

259. So in his Benevolence, He gets to choose


How about just supporting going back to a respectable tax bracket like we once had and have The common prosperity of this country on a more even ground with a govt. by the people appropriate the funds needed where they are need and how they are needed by majority consent.

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Response to 99th_Monkey (Reply #10)

Sat Feb 27, 2016, 03:23 PM

118. We never feel secure. Hence, rich people never feel secure, and never feel that they

have enough money. Hence, greed.

The antidote is a strong society which constructs a strong social net that makes ALL OF US rich and poor feel less fearful.

Fear will always be with us. But we can do things to insure that fear is not the supreme motivator of our conduct.

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Response to JDPriestly (Reply #118)

Sat Feb 27, 2016, 03:44 PM

131. Yep.

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Response to JDPriestly (Reply #118)

Sat Feb 27, 2016, 06:59 PM

167. I don't agree that greed comes from rich people not feeling financially secure.

If that were so, they'd spend less, yet they are buying $20,000 bed sheets and, even worse, going bankrupt. Just heard that Kanye West is $53 million in debt.

I think greed is more complex than that. It may include financial insecurity for some, but those who are born really rich really have no personal concept of that. Well, I should say, it's the extraordinary person who is born rich who really gets what being poor is like. (From stories told at his funeral, Ted Kennedy corrected his kids for messing up a bed in a hotel room on check out day after the chamber maid had made up the room, telling them making beds was back breaking work.--He did have personal knowledge of bad backs.)

I think they like pampering themselves and indulging every whim, throwing money around, buying politicians, being named in Forbes as among the richest in the world, having people treat them as precious because they are the biggest donor to that charity, etc.

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Response to merrily (Reply #167)

Sun Feb 28, 2016, 08:46 AM

217. Re: expecting special treatment as biggest donors to charity?

Amen to that. People who donate anonymously are the ones with true, old school class.

What really has always frosted my butt are these 5 star charity soirees and annual "gatherings", where the photo-op-happy "donors" spend as much or more on their designer gowns, jewels, limousines, $1200 hair dos (lookin' at you and Bergdorff's Salon, Hillary), event entertainment & gourmet food, orchestra size bands for dancing, etc., then actually ends up going to a charity.

Self-congratulatory narcissists posing for photos for the society pages. Look at us, world, simpering in all our finery and self-importance, ostentatiously exercising noblesse oblige and shouldering the white man's burden!

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Response to Divernan (Reply #217)

Sun Feb 28, 2016, 07:41 PM

255. That, too. And the society writers feed into it. However, the power, the

attention, the envy, the adulation, the kowtowing, the VIP treatment--it's all part of it.

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Response to JDPriestly (Reply #118)

Sat Feb 27, 2016, 09:12 PM

186. Yes yes yes!

The rich (and I count myself as that) are basically insecure, just like everyone else in this country. We know that there's no safety net in America, so we have to weave our own. If there were a strong safety net in place for EVERYONE, if we knew our health care would be paid for, if we knew we wouldn't end up homeless, we'd have a lot less incentive to hoard.

When you have a safety net, you don't need to accumulate crazy amounts of wealth.

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Response to JDPriestly (Reply #118)

Sat Feb 27, 2016, 09:42 PM

193. Traditionally one way the poor get the rich to spread the wealth is by kidnapping.

 

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Response to Spitfire of ATJ (Reply #193)

Sun Feb 28, 2016, 12:24 AM

204. Thank you for the laugh . . . I needed that.

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Response to 99th_Monkey (Reply #10)

Sun Feb 28, 2016, 08:19 AM

215. Sadly this is statistically true

Rich people hoard. It becomes a disease.

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Response to Buzz Clik (Reply #1)

Sat Feb 27, 2016, 12:54 PM

19. plenty of filthy rich people

 

what does plenty mean

more important what do you mean by know?

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Response to SoLeftIAmRight (Reply #19)

Sat Feb 27, 2016, 12:59 PM

24. Have you asked those questions of the author of the OP?

 

The author of the OP had some sort of brief (undefined) business interaction with them, which could be something as insignificant as being a bank teller or processing paper.

"Know" for me means sharing a meal, spending hours together socially, being in their homes. "Plenty" means a large enough sample size to know that the OP is generalizing to the point of ridiculous.

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Response to Buzz Clik (Reply #24)

Sat Feb 27, 2016, 01:04 PM

30. There are 3 for me by that definition

 

not close to plenty

plenty in other settings

I find this a true statement - "They live in a different world than you or I. Life is different for them"

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Response to SoLeftIAmRight (Reply #30)

Sat Feb 27, 2016, 02:39 PM

82. Someone who lives in a shanty in Jakarta could make the same equally true statement about you

That doesn't make you a bad person.

My experience is has shown there's shitty people at all income levels. I'm not convinced those closer to the top have any more or less proclivity toward shitbaggery.

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Response to Major Nikon (Reply #82)

Sat Feb 27, 2016, 02:42 PM

85. here let me help

 

check out the radiolab exploration about "rich"

also a tedtalk

I will see if I can find them

The research is clear on this subject.

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Response to SoLeftIAmRight (Reply #85)

Sat Feb 27, 2016, 02:49 PM

91. It would be pretty interesting to find research that can see into someone's character

...and then make objective comparisons based on wealth or income.

How would that even work?

Even if this were somehow possible, the very best is would offer is the ability to make broad brush statements like, "_______ people are ______". Fill in the blanks with whatever class, race, gender, religion, etc., and stereotype you like.

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Response to Major Nikon (Reply #82)

Sat Feb 27, 2016, 03:39 PM

129. +100

Nailed it.

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Response to Major Nikon (Reply #82)

Sat Feb 27, 2016, 06:47 PM

164. It's not necessarily a question of "sh*tbaggery" as much as it is an ability or inability to

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Response to merrily (Reply #164)

Sat Feb 27, 2016, 07:12 PM

171. That's not particular to rich vs poor

It's also true for black vs white, male vs female, atheist vs believer, able bodied vs disabled, and pretty much every class you can think of vs every other class.

Sympathy is the ability to care about someone who doesn't walk in your shoes, even if you can't fully understand what their experiences are. So while it may be true that HRC doesn't have genuine sympathy for those less fortunate, I don't believe this has much if anything to do with her socioeconomic status and a lot more to do with how she reads on the shitbag meter. Consider Clarence Thomas who was born into abject poverty in the epicenter of the racist South, yet now pulls the ladder up in front of everyone who comes after him. So while Thomas might have empathy for the poorest minorities, he certainly has no sympathy for them.

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Response to Buzz Clik (Reply #1)

Sat Feb 27, 2016, 01:42 PM

44. Cool story bro

What has this place become?

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Response to libtodeath (Reply #44)

Sat Feb 27, 2016, 03:12 PM

111. A place where people from our party defend the 1%

Or claim to be so themselves and tell us they are keeping the party afloat.

They're going to need a bigger catapult.

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Response to Hydra (Reply #111)

Sat Feb 27, 2016, 03:28 PM

122. It is sickening.

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Response to Hydra (Reply #111)

Sat Feb 27, 2016, 06:52 PM

165. Personally, I will criticize members of the 1% who...

deserve to be criticized. I will not, however, criticize nor stereotype all members of that class due to some misplaced perception that a person worth a certain amount of money is inherently evil.

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Response to Hydra (Reply #111)

Sat Feb 27, 2016, 09:17 PM

189. And a place where people ignore that the global 1% starts at $34K for an individual

And then come up with the exact same excuses for their own one-percentism that the 1% within America use to defend their one-percent-of-one-percentism. It's kind of fun to watch.

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Response to Buzz Clik (Reply #1)

Sat Feb 27, 2016, 03:04 PM

105. Science says the rich tend to be less compassionate...

 

Seas a Scientific American article here describing some of the research:
http://www.scientificamerican.com/article/how-wealth-reduces-compassion/

You think Trump or Romney are particularly compassionate?

Quite a bit of research has recently found that the rich tend to have less compassion than those less well off.

Go Bernie!!!

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Response to Akamai (Reply #105)

Sat Feb 27, 2016, 06:11 PM

151. I find the root of it more interesting

Do rich people become less compassionate?

OR

Does the system reward less compassionate (more ruthless) people with money?

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Response to w0nderer (Reply #151)

Sat Feb 27, 2016, 09:03 PM

183. You say either or, as though it's "either or." Probably be a bit of a combination.

 

There was research about a year ago that looked at lottery winners in England, and those that won regularly became more conservative.

From: http://www.ibtimes.co.uk/lottery-winners-that-take-home-more-500-likely-vote-conservative-1435430

"If a British person wins more than £500 in a lottery they are more likely to vote Conservative, according to a new a study that looked into the relationship between gambling and political attitudes.

"The research paper by academics Nattavudh Powdthavee and Andrew J. Oswald was called, Does Money Make People Right-Wing and Inegalitarian? A Longitudinal Study of Lottery Winners.


"Among those people who have had a win greater than £500 sterling (which at the time of writing is approximately $800), almost 45% of British individuals vote to the right, that is, support the Conservative party," the authors wrote.

This meant that the larger the win, the more people tilted to the right-side of the political spectrum.

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Response to w0nderer (Reply #151)

Sun Feb 28, 2016, 09:11 AM

219. Both

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Response to Buzz Clik (Reply #1)

Sat Feb 27, 2016, 03:21 PM

117. Do you know second and third generation really rich people? That's where the decadence

is particularly noticeable.

If a person is a CEO, he or she probably actually works and has gained the esteem of co-workers. Probably a relatively good, reliable person.

Several generations later, the whole family thing decays.

Theodore Roosevelt inherited wealth from his father. He was fine. His son overthrew the elected head of Iran -- a stupid, short-sighted thing to do.

And we see that over and over in history.

The trust fund kids I know are in many cases very unhappy and just plain decadent.

But I also know rich people who work hard and are great. They are in the minority, but they exist.

It's a mixed bag.

But once you get corporate wealth, then there is a lack of humanity by definition, and problems, serious ones for society, arise. It isn't just a matter of the personality of the individuals but rather of the purposes of the corporate form. We could change that reality by changing our laws. Corporations should serve us. As it is they kind of have by law a very inhuman value system.

Corporate law needs to be changed. It wasn't always as bad as it is now, as devoid of human instructions based on human values about how corporations should be formed and what they should do.

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Response to JDPriestly (Reply #117)

Sat Feb 27, 2016, 03:41 PM

130. Good point. Nearly ALL "rich" that i know are all self made, not inherited.

 

I grew up with them. Most were military brats; some of them served themselves too. One became a mid-level celebrity & she's done very well in the showbiz world. Hasnt changed a bit. The others all started businesses or went into real estate. I'd say these folks all have a net worth of 20M or so. Definitely can do what they want whenever they want. But only a couple are much different from the way we grew up. The others are really pretty much the same. I'm offered use of vacation homes, swimming pools, clubs, etc, on many occasions. As well as "we're going to X for a few days, wanna come?". Or "come out and visit; you're welcome to stay with us"which would be better than a hotel!) I have met a few of their wealthy friends who are NOT 1st generation money, and I CAN tell a difference.
After your comment I am wondering how my friends kids will be when THEY grow up. Some are not far away; we'll see.

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Response to JDPriestly (Reply #117)

Sat Feb 27, 2016, 04:15 PM

134. i agree about the trust fund babies

this could be altered by a very progressive death tax...which i would be in favor of

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Response to Buzz Clik (Reply #1)

Sat Feb 27, 2016, 04:12 PM

133. the op does not say the rich are bad people

only that because of their station in life they can not comprehend the struggles of the 99%

<<<

They had no idea or could comprehend
the personal struggles we might be going through whether it was to make your next car payment , pay for a funeral,
make your mortgage payment , pay your rent , pay your deductible on your hospital bill , pay the garage for repair
on your car when it breaks down. I could make a list of things but you get my drift on this.


They live in a different world than you or I. Life is different for them.

Now you might ask why is this relevant to post in this forum?

Hillary Clinton does not understand regular people anymore . Maybe she did many, many years ago but not anymore >>>>

.......................................................................................

so if you are saying they worrying about the cost of necessitates ,you are wrong

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Response to questionseverything (Reply #133)

Sat Feb 27, 2016, 04:46 PM

136. Thank you for that

 

I didn't write that anywhere in my post.


I would like to give a recent example if I may where people with wealth are disconnected .


This example some what reflects what I'm trying to say in my OP yet the person I was dealing with had nothing to do
with the industry I was involved in .

This example is just what happened a couple of months with my primary care physician of all people .

For some reason my routine blood work had shown an increase in potassium levels for some strange reason .

Okay I said to the doc , he said I'm ordering another blood test at the hospital this time because the blood needs to be checked
within 15 minutes after the draw. I said okay but this month is a tough month for me lets do it next month.

He looked at me in puzzlement and I explained about the deductible I would have to pay again for lab work.

Now this is coming only from a person who isn't one of the mega wealthly but who has a very nice practice and a very comfortable living. He has owned this practice for years. It was puzzling to him that I wanted to wait because of a bill that would be $425.00


To him that seemed like a trivial amount of money. To me it wasn't




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Response to togetherforever (Reply #136)

Sat Feb 27, 2016, 05:50 PM

146. Many doctors have lost memory of before they were wealthy

A man in our county died when his car fell on him when he was changing the oil and some other maintenance. It was tragic, I heard his own doctor say, "If he had just taken it somewhere for service, he would still be alive, how foolish". I was younger then and did not say maybe he changed his own oil so he could afford to buy groceries this week.....

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Response to TNNurse (Reply #146)

Sat Feb 27, 2016, 06:01 PM

149. Lost memory , I like that

 

I would like to say that my doctor is a very nice person.

His wife and himself are both surgeons before retiring( if that's the right term) to becoming general primary care physicians.




They have a beautiful home on a lake with 9 acres water front where most other multi million dollar homes only have 1/2 acres.

They are both wonderful people but they are discounted from every day struggles that many of us face.





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Response to togetherforever (Reply #149)

Sat Feb 27, 2016, 06:21 PM

155. This guy is pretty nice

He is a GP, has a beautiful voice and has been known to sing at funerals of his former patients.
He just does not have to worry about money and does not get it.

I just remembered years ago he gathered a bunch of nurses to help sing Happy Birthday to his patient. We started with the first Happy Birthday and then stopped and got him to solo. He was a good sport about it. The patient loved it.

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Response to togetherforever (Reply #136)

Sun Feb 28, 2016, 11:55 AM

243. Perfect example

of what people need to understand about this debate. Those at the top (even if they aren't ruthless CEOs) still have NO idea of how the average person lives these days.

I commend you for your OP.

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Response to Buzz Clik (Reply #1)

Sat Feb 27, 2016, 05:04 PM

139. How many is "plenty"? And what kind of sample is that. Besides it's really beside the point.

 

The point is that the 1% Aristocracy is driven by achieving power and wealth. In the last 30 years the wealth of the top 1% has risen by the billions and hundreds of billions while the lower 99% struggle. This isn't an accident of nature, it's because those at the top use their resources (and ours) to rig the system in their favor. The Clintons are a good example, quickly moving into the top 1% or the top 1% in about 15 years, most from corporations. I don't think the majority of the Aristocracy want us to die they just don't care if we do, especially if it's collaterial to their accumulating wealth. For example oil profits from fracking is more important than clean drinking water for the peons.

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Response to Buzz Clik (Reply #1)

Sat Feb 27, 2016, 06:14 PM

153. I call bs.

I know several people with a net worth in excess of $50 million and, no, they have no clue what incessant financial struggle is like.

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Response to merrily (Reply #153)

Sun Feb 28, 2016, 01:20 AM

206. I live in Silicon Valley

And I know many people worth in the tens and hundreds of millions, and one or two billionaires (or near billionaires). They are completely clueless about the average person and completely unaware of just how clueless they are. We have quite a crop of people who think they're socially conscious because they drive a $100,000 Tesla and buy organic vegetables at Whole Foods.

It has nothing to do with how nice they are or how much they give to charity (some are down to earth, others are arrogant as can be). They stay in their bubble and never go outside of it, socializing and vacationing within their economic level. Their children play sports, take lessons and play with other affluent children. They have a black, or an Asian or an Indian friend who runs in the same social circle, but they have never spent any time in a restaurant, park or club that is majority non-white and certainly not if poor.


You are so right - they wouldn't know incessant financial struggle if it were right in front of them (and it is, in the persons of their housekeeper, gardener, nanny, and the other underpaid people who make their privileged lives possible).



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Response to Buzz Clik (Reply #1)

Sun Feb 28, 2016, 12:02 AM

201. I bet they make fun of you

 

behind your back.

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Response to Buzz Clik (Reply #1)

Sun Feb 28, 2016, 12:06 AM

202. About those filthy rich people:

 

They are 'nice' people who are robbing everyone else blind. Now, isn't that wonderful?

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Response to Buzz Clik (Reply #1)

Sun Feb 28, 2016, 09:44 AM

228. True

 

Though some, like the Koch brothers, seem like poster children for the rich who don't care.

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Response to togetherforever (Original post)

Sat Feb 27, 2016, 12:44 PM

2. They look at us like we're dogs. Useful and loyal but not the same species. nt

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Response to valerief (Reply #2)

Sat Feb 27, 2016, 12:48 PM

12. They demand our loyalty even as they pursue policies that fuck us over. Repeatedly.

I am so close to not having it any longer.

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Response to valerief (Reply #2)

Sat Feb 27, 2016, 01:43 PM

45. Exactly,they wonder why we would want another .50 per hour while they worry how to save thousands on

their tax bills.

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Response to valerief (Reply #2)

Sat Feb 27, 2016, 07:06 PM

168. Not too generous with the doggie treats, either!

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Response to togetherforever (Original post)

Sat Feb 27, 2016, 12:46 PM

4. Who unlocked your chains?

Why aren't you at your work bench and who gave you access to a computer? It was that Smith character, wasn't it? Damn him! Well, enough is enough! Get your prole rear end back to that work bench and don't look up again until Corporate Fun Time! If you make your quota (That means surpassing your quota!) you can kiss the CEO's ring but no tongue!













sarcasm

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Response to togetherforever (Original post)

Sat Feb 27, 2016, 12:46 PM

5. I do not hold my opinion based on net worth, I realize lots of people do this,

what is the problem with someone having networth? Based on this information Sanders would be disliked because he has had a good salary for twenty five years and many other perks, I do not feel cared for from Sanders. I as a woman do not appreciate lots of the things he has said about women, I don't think he knows how most women really feel.

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Response to Thinkingabout (Reply #5)

Sat Feb 27, 2016, 12:48 PM

11. oh please

Tell me something Bernie has said that insulted you as a woman.

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Response to grasswire (Reply #11)

Sat Feb 27, 2016, 01:32 PM

41. I asked the same question...the silence is deafening. Always is with this one.

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Response to grasswire (Reply #11)

Sat Feb 27, 2016, 02:05 PM

61. I'm curious, too.

Brings to mind the post I saw in GDP earlier today, ranting about the "misogynist troll brigades" that Sanders is supposedly being supported by. I kind of have to shake my head at that one and wonder... WTF?

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Response to Thinkingabout (Reply #5)

Sat Feb 27, 2016, 12:49 PM

13. For Pete's sake...

What are some of those things he has said about women?

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Response to Thinkingabout (Reply #5)

Sat Feb 27, 2016, 01:58 PM

55. I'm also interested in your post.

Please tell me, too, what it is that Bernie Sanders has said that has insulted you as a woman.

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Response to Thinkingabout (Reply #5)

Sat Feb 27, 2016, 02:11 PM

66. I am all ears on this ???

 

"I as a woman do not appreciate lots of the things he has said about women, I don't think he knows how most women really feel."
Posted by Thinkingabout




It's the first time I've read this claim?

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Response to Thinkingabout (Reply #5)

Sat Feb 27, 2016, 03:29 PM

124. Please provide an example of bad things Sanders has said about women.

 

If there are examples, i would like to know about it. I would likely view him a little differently if he's done so

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Response to Thinkingabout (Reply #5)

Sat Feb 27, 2016, 08:01 PM

180. I am a woman and have never heard these awful these

Please educate me.

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Response to Thinkingabout (Reply #5)

Sun Feb 28, 2016, 09:16 AM

220. He knows how people treated as second class citizens feel, right?

Therefore he knows how women feel.

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Response to togetherforever (Original post)

Sat Feb 27, 2016, 12:46 PM

6. "Lets move away from the 1% just this once folks"

 

No.

Let's move away from the 1% for eternity. In fact, we should rid this planet of them completely.

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Response to PowerToThePeople (Reply #6)

Sat Feb 27, 2016, 01:18 PM

35. Math is hard

Rid the planet of the 1%??

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Response to feathateathn (Reply #35)

Sat Feb 27, 2016, 01:25 PM

38. expected

 

Sorry that math is hard for you.

Equality does not have gradients.

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Response to PowerToThePeople (Reply #38)

Sun Feb 28, 2016, 06:32 AM

213. So you're for absolute equality then

Everyone makes the exact same as amount, has the exact same wealth. Everyone is the 1% and the 99%. You going with that?

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Response to feathateathn (Reply #35)

Sat Feb 27, 2016, 03:15 PM

115. The math is easy

Take their money out of our politics. They'll move somewhere else where they can buy up everything.

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Response to Hydra (Reply #115)

Sun Feb 28, 2016, 09:20 AM

222. +++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++

++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Take their money OUT of politics. It CAN be done.

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Response to togetherforever (Original post)

Sat Feb 27, 2016, 12:48 PM

8. One branch of my family is very rich

 

(not my branch, naturally!)

There are extremely nice people. Very gracious hosts. Let's just say - if it was your birthday, they'd be the first to arrange to bring you a birthday cake.

They made their money through mafia connections.

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Response to noamnety (Reply #8)

Sun Feb 28, 2016, 09:17 AM

221. The mafia always look after family

"extremely nice people"

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Response to noamnety (Reply #8)


Response to togetherforever (Original post)


Response to Name removed (Reply #9)

Sat Feb 27, 2016, 12:51 PM

16. More fit than Shillary.

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Response to hobbit709 (Reply #16)


Response to hobbit709 (Reply #16)

Sat Feb 27, 2016, 02:36 PM

80. Ooh, great nickname

How about calling her party the demonrats, that's always popular along with the Hillary nicknames on Free Republic.
Come on, let's elevate the conversation a bit if you want your arguement to be heard.

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Response to SCantiGOP (Reply #80)

Sat Feb 27, 2016, 02:41 PM

84. I'll call her what I want.

and I have even less use for the freepers than I have for HRC.

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Response to togetherforever (Original post)

Sat Feb 27, 2016, 12:51 PM

15. I do

 

Here's a real wtf for you...

If I named the person everyone would no who it is. My wife worked on a Grammy winning project with this person who would get manicures and even a wax while holding project meetings.

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Response to togetherforever (Original post)

Sat Feb 27, 2016, 12:52 PM

17. I conduct surveys for the gummit

and have a case load in which I must knock on doors, I DREAD when they give me the wealthy neighborhoods. IF they deign to actually participate I'm almost always relegated to conducting the survey outside on their front porch, rain, 105-degree heat, doesn't matter. They don't ask me in, they don't offer a seat, they don't offer water. I'm relieved when they send me to poor and working-class neighborhoods wherein I'm often invited in, offered water and occasionally offered a meal (which I respectfully decline, well, except when I get offered tamales -- what can I say? I'm human).

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Response to Le Taz Hot (Reply #17)

Sat Feb 27, 2016, 01:10 PM

33. Taking gifts on a government job, eh?

 


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Response to jberryhill (Reply #33)

Sat Feb 27, 2016, 01:36 PM

42. I confess.

I can be bought with a homemade tamale. And Rico's tacos. They're my crack.

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Response to Le Taz Hot (Reply #42)

Sat Feb 27, 2016, 08:08 PM

181. Homemade tamales are to die for

I used to buy them from a local, but they haven't come around lately, so I think they quit doing that. They were sooooo good.

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Response to Le Taz Hot (Reply #17)

Sat Feb 27, 2016, 01:53 PM

53. The ones who have the least more often than not give the most

 

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Response to Le Taz Hot (Reply #17)

Sat Feb 27, 2016, 02:54 PM

100. See my post 79 re working on the census

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Response to Divernan (Reply #100)

Sat Feb 27, 2016, 03:07 PM

106. I can't see it.

I'm guessing it's in response to someone I have on Ignore. Do a cut and paste for me and PM it to me? Thanks.

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Response to togetherforever (Original post)

Sat Feb 27, 2016, 12:53 PM

18. I've known a few. Some were asses, some were OK, and few were human beings.

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Response to hobbit709 (Reply #18)

Sat Feb 27, 2016, 05:36 PM

144. That is exactly what I was going to say.

I have known rich people who are self absorbed asses and rich people who love helping anyone in need. You cannot judge people because they do or do not have money,

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Response to togetherforever (Original post)

Sat Feb 27, 2016, 12:55 PM

20. yes , and all of them are very good people.

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Response to stonecutter357 (Reply #20)


Response to togetherforever (Original post)

Sat Feb 27, 2016, 12:55 PM

21. Members of the elite parasite class

grow comfortable in their insulated bubble, and the worst of the bunch have learned that by saying pretty words to the unwashed masses, they can hypnotize the masses into supporting their continued feeding upon the labor and productivity of the working class.

Pretty words.

When words no longer align with actions, stop listening to the words: listen only to the actions.

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Response to togetherforever (Original post)

Sat Feb 27, 2016, 01:00 PM

25. What do you mean by "really rich"?

because I don't know if I'm thinking the same wealth that you're thinking.

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Response to mainer (Reply #25)

Sat Feb 27, 2016, 01:07 PM

32. The wealthiest was in the top 500

 

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Response to togetherforever (Original post)

Sat Feb 27, 2016, 01:02 PM

28. A bunch of us were going camping one weekend. 1%er showed up with a brand new CAMPER.

That is how they roll. Spur of the moment camper bought at last minute while the rest of us pitched tents.
HILARIOUS

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Response to togetherforever (Original post)

Sat Feb 27, 2016, 01:03 PM

29. I know one really rich person...

Define rich...

Is a high seven figure, low eight figure, net worth income rich?


My friend is a successful trial attorney. She belongs to the exclusive Inner Circle Of Advocates that John Edwards did. She spent her weekends in the Summer and Fall of 2008 registering Haitians in working class Pine Hills, Florida to vote for Barack Obama...

Rich folk are just like other folk... An abundance of money doesn't confer nobility on people nor does it make them rotten and unempathetic people either.

The woman who employed me, also a millionaire, took her whole office to a restaurant so they could watch Bill Clinton's first Inauguration. She also paid a competitive wage and provided generous benefits. She wasn't perfect, none of us are, but she was the best boss I ever had, by a mile...

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Response to DemocratSinceBirth (Reply #29)

Sun Feb 28, 2016, 09:23 AM

224. You describe the RARE exception

and I think you know it. So "she was the best boss ever"-- the things you describe should be standard, not the exception.

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Response to marions ghost (Reply #224)

Sun Feb 28, 2016, 10:21 AM

235. Two different people so I must have been lucky./nt

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Response to togetherforever (Original post)

Sat Feb 27, 2016, 01:17 PM

34. I do not know

any personally but when I was working as a carpenter I worked on many homes in East Hampton and I also worked in some of the poorer neighborhoods on Long Island. I can tell you the way I was treated by seniors and others who were struggling to get by and those who had everything they ever needed was quite different. Tips, food and using the restroom was no problem in some of the homes but in East Hampton lets just say the hospitality was not the same. This is going back many years and the divide IMO is much worse and has spread.

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Response to UglyGreed (Reply #34)

Sat Feb 27, 2016, 01:40 PM

43. When I was in college I worked concrete construction in the summers.

We used to eat pretty well and treated ourselves to nice lunches.

One time, were doing a job in Hinsdale Illinois which was, and still is, a pretty affluent suburb of Chicago - they had million dollar homes when a million dollars was something.

Any whoo, one day we were eating lunch in an upscale-ish deli and I noticed some older lady giving us the stink-eye. Didn't think much about it... Until a couple days later I read, in the local rag, a letter to the editor complaining about "grubby looking trades-people" eating in their restaraunts and how "something needed to be done about it." She mentioned the name of the deli so I was sure it was me, my brother and our boss she was talking about.

We did mostly residential work and my experience was, for the most part, the same as yours. Tips, home cooked lunches, bathrooms - yep.

We had some "rich" lady complain to our boss one time because we weren't working fast enough for her. Her beef was our waiting out a rainstorm in the truck.

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Response to Hassin Bin Sober (Reply #43)

Sat Feb 27, 2016, 07:43 PM

176. I hung doors

and was in these people's homes and I remember an older women who was on social security struggling to get by insist on making me a sandwich, I tried and tried to tell her please don't and she would not have none of it LOL. Then I remember being in the Hamptons and had to drive to a local gas station to go to the bathroom...... Funny how those things work.

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Response to togetherforever (Original post)

Sat Feb 27, 2016, 01:19 PM

36. I happen to know a couple

one made his in the lumber yard business the other in insurance. Neither would pass as a rich person if you just met them. Both down to earth good people.

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Response to togetherforever (Original post)

Sat Feb 27, 2016, 01:20 PM

37. Our adult son is good friends with a rich man from a very rich family and it always....

brings me to tears when I think about how this man gave our son the skills, the time and confidence to
overcome a very difficult time in his life.

We are not even sure if this friend is conservative or liberal or whatever. We just know our son
was in a bad situation and his friend helped in the most important ways.


The Tikkis

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Response to togetherforever (Original post)

Sat Feb 27, 2016, 01:27 PM

39. A couple I used to work for....

Generous and kind to all employees. But, they were OLD money. I think there is a difference.

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Response to togetherforever (Original post)

Sat Feb 27, 2016, 01:29 PM

40. I've known a number of very wealthy people

 

The horsewomen who inherited their wealth were down to earth. They'd be out in the cold, mucking out and breaking ice with the rest of us.

The billionaire who was rumored to be the wealthiest person in New England was a narcissistic, creepy asshole supreme. Every so often he would come to the barn with his mistress, walk into the tack room and crank the heat up to about 80 in the dead of winter (raising the bill for all of us) plunk himself down in a chair, look miserable and snarl when you greeted him.

His mistress was a former high-class prostitute from the backwoods of Vermont whom he'd gifted with an olympic prospect that she could barely sit on, a little red porsche and $1M (a few decades ago when that was serious money) so she wouldn't have to work (presumably to be at his beck and call). She was narcissistic, obnoxious and universally hated. She would hang around the barn all day with all of her stuff spread out over the aisle so you couldn't walk by. In summer, she would wait by her horse parked in the aisle while you rode and then, when she saw you enter the aisle with a hot, sweaty horse, she would run her horse to the wash stall and force you to wait for 20 minutes to rinse off your poor horse. I silently laughed when the real estate market crashed in the mid-90s, since her money was all invested in condos and she was at risk of losing it all. I think she lost a lot of it, but she convinced her "honey" to buy her a farm just outside of Boston. We celebrated when she moved out. Piece. Of. Work.

The formerly middle-class woman about my age who married money was pretty darned obnoxious. Their son was being raised by her, a fulltime nanny and a housekeeper, and destined to be a complete asshole. She was very passive aggressive toward me, but I silently felt avenged knowing that for all her bluster and claims, when push came to shove, she was owned by her husband. She's the one who told me that when they hosted parties for the elite, they got them whatever they wanted, "...and I mean, whatever." I envisioned whatever drugs, prostitutes, child prostitutes...who knows

The executives at DEC were a mix. Some were down to earth with high integrity. My favorite Marketing VP's wife had 30 cats. They had their own room in their house and he'd built them a wall of cubbies. He had decided to build them their own little house in their back yard when I was in his group Others were grifter assholes (the "yesmen" and professional "fall guys." I will give one of the creepy grifters a bit of credit: when his dog fell through ice into a pond, he ran out onto the ice and rescued him. So he did have one major redeeming quality. Surprised me; I took him to be a coward. By the time I was at Digital, a significant chunk of them were the grifter/yes-men/fall-guy type, especially in the services and systems divisions. The storage division, where I landed in the mid-90s, lacked any kind of sex appeal and the majority there were very high integrity and down to earth.

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Response to togetherforever (Original post)

Sat Feb 27, 2016, 01:43 PM

46. Yes I do. Great guy, great friend - and very disconnected.

lots of cognitive dissonance.

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Response to togetherforever (Original post)

Sat Feb 27, 2016, 01:45 PM

47. That's not true for rich people who used to be poor or middle class

 

And that's a lot of people, because it's possible to move up in this country. If you think it's hard here, it's much harder in the rest of the world.

This idea that some have that anyone who is financially successful just doesn't understand is a myth. The vast majority of financially successful liberals understand it very well.

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Response to MaggieD (Reply #47)

Sat Feb 27, 2016, 03:02 PM

104. Have you looked at the upward mobility in the US?

"The United States had about 1/3 the ratio of mobility of Denmark and less than half that of Canada, Finland and Norway.[1] France, Germany, Sweden, also had higher mobility, with only the United Kingdom being less mobile.[1]

Economic mobility in developing nations (such as those in Africa) is thought to be limited by both historical and global economic factors.[13] Economic mobility is everywhere correlated with income and wealth inequality."

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Economic_mobility#United_States

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Response to togetherforever (Original post)

Sat Feb 27, 2016, 01:45 PM

48. Unless you are interacting with some people

they don't even know you exist. And sometimes when they know you exist, they will not see any of the problems that you are having. I married into rich, although he didn't have his inheritance yet. We had a child. He divorced me a few years later. Since then my son and I have lived a life of poverty. The funny thing is that my mother (who was not rich) left my son $1000, which is more than his rich grandparents left him when they died.

The reality is that most rich people just don't think of you, period. They can't comprehend life being a struggle. My ex once said that it was hard work being rich. Even when he 'struggled' when he was first starting out, he could call mom and 'borrow' some money to get by. Even he really had no idea, what it takes to live day to day. Add in any type of disability and well, it's not something that they can fathom. Everyone should be able to find a job and support themselves, no matter what.

Yes, there are some good ones out there, but even then some still have no idea the scope of the problem when they are donating to various groups. If there is a problem, you throw money at it and basically that's all they know.

Z

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Response to zalinda (Reply #48)

Sat Feb 27, 2016, 01:48 PM

49. Sorry, that's not really true IME

 

You're describing republicans, not rich people. Rich liberals are still liberals. And there are plenty of them. Save your ire for republicans instead of directing it toward rich people.

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Response to zalinda (Reply #48)

Sat Feb 27, 2016, 02:25 PM

72. Most people, rich or poor, don't know you exist

That's the way of the world. People are in their own little spheres and don't think of those outside their own family/social circle. it's not just the rich.

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Response to togetherforever (Original post)

Sat Feb 27, 2016, 01:51 PM

50. If you don't make a conscious effort to be an exception to the rule,

you will forget where you come from. It's natural to disconnect and to some degree, disengage. Especially in a busy world that moves too fast.

It's not an indictment of character, it's still unfortunate though. When choosing a leader, people want to feel connected to them.



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Response to togetherforever (Original post)

Sat Feb 27, 2016, 01:51 PM

52. I've met a very rich person -- the CEO/Chairman of the mid-sized corporation I work for

He's the head of the private equity group that bought us a few years ago. My boss is a senior vice president and a self-described "very conservative guy." He went to a business meeting at one of the 5 mansions the CEO owns around the country. This one is in The Hamptons, and my boss said he had to walk far away from the mansion to get the whole thing in the pic he snapped. He had an opportunity to hobnob with others of that ilk, and the one word he used to describe their wealth is "obscene."

The bigwig I met (can't say I "know" him) can be very personable when the situation calls for it, but my boss said in a different venue they both attended the bigwig wouldn't even acknowledge him with anything more than a sneer.

They are the lords, and we are the peasants. We should be grateful we're allowed on occasion to breathe the same air.

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Response to togetherforever (Original post)

Sat Feb 27, 2016, 01:54 PM

54. Yes

I know a few.

But, When I was a new nurse I worked in LTC in a very affluent neighborhood. Now, we are talking upper middle class mostly--well within the "millionaire" group of people. I took care of politicians parents, the patents of quasi-famous authors, people like that

Now, the point of view I had at the time was colored, as are all anecdotal stories, by my own personal experience--one of of extreme poverty. I literally thought rich people were different on a very basic level. What I found out was they are not. They love, or don't love, their parents. They suffer from classic "dysfunctional" families, they suffer when they lose loved ones. Theu might have healthy, happy families. They care, or don't care--about other human beings. They give to their communities, or don't give. They worked an appropriate amount, were workaholics. Or didn't work at all. They were happy or depressed They can be activists or assholes. I found they weren't much different than anyone else, except they had far more leisure time, and money to indulge. Of course the shared experience of a dying relative is an enormous equalizer.

Hillary Clinton is winning because of the type of campaign she is running. She is using a lot of outreach. She is meeting people. She does understand because she is listening. She's taking the time to listen. She always has.

The kind of poverty I come from would put Sanders right in the 1% with the rest of them, it's all relative you see. To me, a few hundred thousand is as far away as a few million.

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Response to togetherforever (Original post)

Sat Feb 27, 2016, 02:00 PM

56. I know plenty of really rich people, probably worked in the same industry you did

I also have very wealthy family members, though I am very middle-middle class.

Here is the thing-they're a mixed bag just like every body else. Some are greedy assholes, some are the kindest and most generous people I've ever known.

It makes no sense to be generalized any group of people.

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Response to togetherforever (Original post)

Sat Feb 27, 2016, 02:01 PM

57. I think it depends on HOW they got their money.

Someone who got their money through banking would be very different from someone who got theirs because of novel-writing.

Someone who inherited their wealth would be different from someone who made his money building a plumbing business.

The chef/owner of a restaurant would be different from the guy who financed the restaurant.

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Response to togetherforever (Original post)

Sat Feb 27, 2016, 02:02 PM

58. Yes, my ex, a millionaire.

Made all of his money after we split up. When our hard-working daughter needs help financially (which isn't that often) it's like pulling teeth to get him to help. Always puts the guilt trip on her. I tell her to ask me first, but she knows that I am on a limited income, so she just sucks it up and asks him. Breaks my heart.

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Response to togetherforever (Original post)

Sat Feb 27, 2016, 02:03 PM

59. Yes I did, and we do not even exist to them any more than a homeless person does.

The funny thing is that you can take someone who brings in 40 million a year and they think they are poor. Mitt Romney said it best when talking about college expense, just borrow the money from your parents. Yea, I am sure.

The 1% knew about the classes before the 99% did, they started talking about "class warfare" before OWS started.

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Response to togetherforever (Original post)

Sat Feb 27, 2016, 02:03 PM

60. Seriously?

 

Seems that virtually everyone in this string is engaging in one of the inductive fallacies -- a hasty generalization or basing one's conclusion on an unrepresentative sample.

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Response to Snerd (Reply #60)

Sat Feb 27, 2016, 02:50 PM

93. and Democrats are represented by everyone in this thread!!!

be sure to report that!!!

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Response to togetherforever (Original post)

Sat Feb 27, 2016, 02:08 PM

62. Read The Great Gatsby.

It was the same stuff back in the 20's. There's a famous quote from the book, "The rich are not like us". Fitzgerald rubbed shoulders with the .1% back then. Nothing's changed today. Reagan's big lie was that we could all be rich if we just worked real hard. Last time I was in McDonald's (years ago) the people there were "working real hard" in gross conditions. I was in a WalMart last year and there was a young checker working two product belts at the same time. My thought was, how does she feel when she gets off of work? How long does it take her to come down from the adrenalin rush necessary to maintain this pace? It doesn't matter. WalMart will work her till she burns out then stick a new body in there. Hillary was on the Board of WalMart. I agree with the poster, Hillary doesn't understand the average person, she's not like us.

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Response to jalan48 (Reply #62)

Sun Feb 28, 2016, 09:35 AM

225. "Hillary was on the Board of Walmart"

--that kinda says it all...anyone who thinks Hillary can change anything is delusional.

Change can only come from those brave enough to tackle the corrupt system at the roots.

Sadly it probably WAS necessary for Hill to "buy in" to get where she is today.

But that doesn't mean this country needs her for president.

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Response to togetherforever (Original post)

Sat Feb 27, 2016, 02:08 PM

63. I know quite a few rich people - their personalities vary as much as most other people I know

Some have worked hard for what they've got, some inherited it. Most of them are decent people who do not see themselves as better than anyone else.

Some of the most decent people I know are very wealthy. Some of the most arrogant, judgmental and disconnected people I know don't have a pot to piss in.

In other words, in my experience, people's morals and decency have little to do with how much money they have but with the values they were instilled with. And integrity and honor are not the exclusive province of the poor and middle class.

I don't think that the only people who are qualified to be President are those who have personal experience with financial struggle, any more than I pick a President based on whether I want to have a beer with them. Using your standard, we should never have elected FDR, Theodore Roosevelt, JFK, or Jimmy Carter but Richard Nixon was one of us and Ted Kennedy had no honor and integrity. Even Bernie Sanders' morals would be questionable, given his rather hefty $174,000 per year salary, far out of the realm of most Americans.

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Response to EffieBlack (Reply #63)

Sat Feb 27, 2016, 02:19 PM

70. Agree

My husband and I used to have to consort for many years with the extremely wealthy board members of the museum for which he worked (some of whose names would be recognizable to many). I must say that this group was almost to a person extremely human, gracious, and generous—and totally egalitarian, down-to-earh. We've also met a few assholes from the upper classes. Of course, we've met an equal number of assholes from our own middle-class peer group.

There are good people and crappy people among every stratum of society.

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Response to EffieBlack (Reply #63)

Sat Feb 27, 2016, 02:50 PM

92. +1

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Response to EffieBlack (Reply #63)

Sat Feb 27, 2016, 05:38 PM

145. yup Reagan also didn't come from wealth

And we see what he did.

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Response to EffieBlack (Reply #63)

Sat Feb 27, 2016, 06:11 PM

150. yes, humans do show all stripes

but - warning! a little science for you! -

a whole bunch of studies have been conducted in the past decade that show that - in fact - folks who have a lot of money actually DO fail the basic morals tests. just a few examples:

they do not slow down for people in crosswalks while driving their beemers and ferraris.

they're more inclined to take candy from a dish expressly designated for children.

people with more wealth have more trouble reading emotional expressions in others.

just thinking about money can leave us more inclined to ignore our moral compass.

these things appear to apply not just to folks who have money, but who get it, even fake money in monopoly!

check out a brief huffpo piece on the phenomenon.

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2014/01/06/psychology-of-wealth_n_4531905.html

that camel and the eye of the needle? ancient wisdoms are forever.

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Response to togetherforever (Original post)

Sat Feb 27, 2016, 02:09 PM

64. I'm with you.

I want to advance Bernie as the Dem nominee.

I don't travel in (or intersect with) the same circles as the super-rich.

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Response to togetherforever (Original post)

Sat Feb 27, 2016, 02:14 PM

67. Someone in my synagogue had 300 million

They seemed very ordinary. They lived in a comfortable house in an upper middle class suburb, but not a mansion. They didn't wear expensive jewelry,drive a rolls-royce, or flaunt their wealth. Their lifestyle was that of a successful doctor or lawyer. And they loved to shop at the dollar store. They gave generously to charity and we're very nice people. They made their money honestly and without exploiting people.

Moral of the story: don't judge people until you know them.

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Response to togetherforever (Original post)

Sat Feb 27, 2016, 02:15 PM

68. Only one.

I worked for him for about a year. He was a man who owns two hotels in the local area, several apartment buildings (more like slums, really) and frequently enjoys vacations to exotic areas. The vast majority of his employees earn anywhere from 7.50 an hour to a whopping 8.50.

A couple of the people working for him... have been doing so for over ten years... and still earn minimum wage.

Definitely the snobby, elitist type. Our hotel had a restaurant - and we had just hired a new waitress, a week ago. Big boss came up from his fancy apartment down south and went to dinner at his restaurant. Unfortunately, the new waitress brought him a regular fork, instead of a dessert fork, when he wanted to enjoy his dessert. So, after he and the manager yelled at the poor woman, they made her count every single fork in the dining room and kitchen. Pretty sure I'd have taken that fork and shoved it up his ass - I should have.

No, he definitely had no comprehension of what a normal person has to struggle with every day. Net worth in the millions, owner of several apartment complexes, houses, a couple hotels, a couple vacation homes... yet he used to whine about having to share time with the impoverished folks in Northern Maine when he came up to visit. Oh, how many times I listened to that man bitch that everyone had their hands out, that no one was willing to work for anything anymore. Telling this to me, his exhausted, full time, very liberal employee who was working for eight bucks an hour without benefits.

Absolutely agree with you based on my experience - which, admittedly, isn't much. The guy was like High King Emperor of Dipshitism. Will never forget what it was like to work for a man who held the poor (myself included) deeply in contempt, while enjoying his inherited millions. He used to say that he was earning poverty level income, I would have to struggle not to laugh, a struggle I often failed.

Honor and integrity mean a lot to me - but I don't care if it's a rich person, poor person, or middle of the road person who holds it. I don't think we can determine anything about individuals based on their wealth alone. However... there are a great many specific individuals, groups, corporations, etc. that we can very accurately say very nasty (very true) things about.

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Response to togetherforever (Original post)

Sat Feb 27, 2016, 02:28 PM

73. I've known Republican and Democratic wealth.

 

Republican wealthy are unabashedly selfish, elitist, and cold. They can be amazingly polite and well behaved, but they are cold at heart. "Poor people are that way by choice: they are lazy." Period. "The natural order is hierarchical; we were meant to be on top."

The Democratic wealthy that I knew were FDR-style Democrats, not DLC/Third Way (very important). They were interested in creativity, art, literature, music, and exploration more than in business. They may have been deep-level selfish but not so elitist and not cold. Wealthy FDR-style Democrats have working consciences.

Both tend to be self-congratulatory.

I suspect wealthy DLC/Third Way Democrats are closer to their Republican counterparts than they are to FDR Democrats.

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Response to togetherforever (Original post)

Sat Feb 27, 2016, 02:29 PM

74. money's not an amount to them--"I have N so I can buy something that costs M"

it's just something they HAVE, and if it turns out they'd got something on the Black Card that costs a mil the accountant just calls and undoes the transaction

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Response to togetherforever (Original post)

Sat Feb 27, 2016, 02:30 PM

76. i do know some really rich people.

some of them are wonderful, empathetic, even liberals. some of them are more as you describe. i want Bernie to win. even more, I want the democrat.

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Response to togetherforever (Original post)

Sat Feb 27, 2016, 02:34 PM

77. I have never met anyone I knew was super wealthy.

I have been shooed aside at O'Hare and San Francisco airports to let VIPs pass. I have had to walk around areas secured for people.

I did volunteer work at stables on navy bases. For shoveling crap I got to exercise horses occasionally. But how wealthy the families of the few officers I had an interaction with were, I don't know.

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Response to togetherforever (Original post)

Sat Feb 27, 2016, 02:39 PM

83. Really nice post. Thanks for sharing.

What you wrote made me think of a paragraph in "The Great Gatsby".

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Response to togetherforever (Original post)

Sat Feb 27, 2016, 02:45 PM

86. I've been friends, quite by chance with several billionaires.

Most of them don't have a clue about the real world anymore, even if they once did. Their money an influence shields them from everything, nobody disagrees with them, and most people are trying to charm their way into a piece of the action. But I'll have to disagree that Clinton is in that category. She's not wealthy enough, and she is too invested in solving problems she's been working to solve all her life.

Yeah, I know the anti-Clinton crowd will laugh at this, or get angry, but they'll just had to find out when she becomes president.

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Response to Nitram (Reply #86)

Sun Feb 28, 2016, 09:48 AM

229. But because of her ties

her heart may be in the right place, but politically she will be thwarted (and at times compromised).

You will see the truth of this if she becomes president.

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Response to togetherforever (Original post)

Sat Feb 27, 2016, 02:45 PM

88. I don't know any. They apparently don't enter my circle often.

The only 'wealthy' people I somewhat know are a few musicians some here may have heard of - wealthy they ain't.

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Response to togetherforever (Original post)

Sat Feb 27, 2016, 02:46 PM

90. Like you, before I retired, I worked with some of the richest people in

Southern California, handling their assets. You are right, they don't have a clue what the average person contends with day to day, especially the heirs who have never had to worry about anything, even paying their own bills because someone does it for them. Also, the heirs don't even have to worry about making money because some ancestor did it for them.

Many of them practice small economies, like being cheap tippers, feeding the dog table scraps because dog food is too expensive. For what reason? I don't know. Guilt? Not wanting anyone else to have what they have? Or just an obsessive/ compulsive disorder? Who knows?

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Response to togetherforever (Original post)

Sat Feb 27, 2016, 02:51 PM

94. I know someone worth $50 million, and he's a good person

He was a neighbor of a good friend and owned a gas well company in nearby Penn. His suburban house was worth about $180k and I had no idea until recently that he even had that kind of money. I joke with my friend that if I had that sort of dough I'd move as far away from her as possible. Jake always waved from his front yard and was easy to talk to.

I found out he was wealthy when I was researching stocks and looked into his company a few years ago. He had a million controlling shares of the company at about $50 a share. He was compensated $300k a year but didn't live like it. He finally treated himself a couple years ago with a fully restored '58 Vette, but lives his life like a working man. I don't even think his adult kids know what he has. They drive new cars, but in the $30k range.

Since all this Jake finally retired last year, cashed in his stock holdings, and moved to sunny Arizona at 59 years of age. His new dream home near Phoenix is valued at about half a mil and I hear he hasn't changed his lifestyle much. Maybe he's an anomaly or just plain stupid. I see him as a real life Jed Clampett.

On edit: I do concede that he votes a straight ticket Republican ballot. We've had our discussions and he always remained polite and respectful.

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Response to togetherforever (Original post)

Sat Feb 27, 2016, 02:51 PM

95. My father-in-law became rich and he didn't change at all

 

He was still the meanest @#$@#$ you would ever meet. He was a self-made millionaire, but then lost it all on stupid investments and land deals. We tried to warn him about his dealings, but he was smarter than everyone. He went from a mansion on 100+ acres of farmland to a small house in a subdivision. He went through a bad bout cancer and is now living off what's left of his savings, and he's still the meanest @#$@#$ you would ever meet. He terrorizes the HOA.

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Response to togetherforever (Original post)

Sat Feb 27, 2016, 02:52 PM

96. personally know

however my dad did. the current CEO who's prepping to retire from Ashely Furniture we kne Ron Wanek quite well to put it nicely if you didn't know him well that was to your benefit. Because he would use you if you did know him well and only at ashley was take makeing 3 figures (barely) but he's not the super rich. yes he bought a $3 million mansion in Florida a number of years ago buthe's on the low end of the Super Rich ie Bill Clinton today makes more money than Ron ever did. (and Hillary) When I knew Ron as I was growing up Clinton who? it was Reagan and Bush up until dad left April 1992. and yes people seem to change. They teach me these 4 groups are absolutely cults. So far 2 of them no problem voting for them even if in theory Obama's Church congregates with the ELCA Lutheran Church. Some Lutherans would rather vote for 2 cults. Mormons and 7th Day adventists although I just can't imagine certain Lutheran Syndos voting for a Catholic.

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Response to togetherforever (Original post)

Sat Feb 27, 2016, 02:52 PM

97. I grew up around rich people

Not 1% wealthy, but really well off. I knew many people with big salaries, big paychecks. Rarely met those that actually paid the salaries, the people that wrote the checks.

To my mind, there is a difference.

The rich vary in attitude, leaning snobbery. The wealthy, the 1%... they mostly live in a bubble.

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Response to togetherforever (Original post)

Sat Feb 27, 2016, 02:53 PM

99. yes, OP. Hillary making 1/4 to 1/2 mil a speech does not support the $15 minimum wage everywhere.

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Response to togetherforever (Original post)

Sat Feb 27, 2016, 03:08 PM

107. define "really rich"

let's put it this way: i don't know a single millionaire.

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Response to togetherforever (Original post)

Sat Feb 27, 2016, 03:14 PM

114. Yes. I've known a few.

And the majority of them lived on trust fund money and were very, shall we say, unreliable.

But some were nice people.

I've had a very strange, strange, strange life.

I am not at all rich. I just happen to have known some very rich people.

But then, I live in Los Angeles, and there are quite a few very rich people here.

Reading some of the posts, I remembered that I knew some very, very rich people when i was a child. They served on the board of my dad's (a pastor) community center. They were really, really rich and if I told you the name, you would recognize it immediately.

They could arrange anything like making sure their granddaughter had the room next to yours at a state university at which you were a scholarship student (not me but someone in my family). The granddaughter threw away her underwear rather than wash it. Very, very, very rich. A household word.

But also very, very religious.

And at the same time extremely right-wing. They were very confused people.

I like a middle class lifestyle. I want goals to work for. I don't want to have to be obsessed with protecting my money. I want to be able to socialize with people, to help people, to be with people, to smile at anyone on the street without asking myself whether they want my money, my fortune.

I want my children to have the joy of working for and achieving their own goals including modest amounts of property in their lives.

I do not envy the very rich. I envy all who have the spiritual basis in their lives to work hard and share and love others.

So it really isn't so much about hating the rich or thinking they are all evil, it's more about the wonderful feeling of being one with others and sharing (not just helping others but sharing with them).

I would like to see our country as one country without so many divisions.

We have come a long way with regard to race although we still have a long way to go. Same with gender and sexual preferences.

It's a spiritual thing with me. If you saw me and knew my lifestyle, you would not perhaps recognize how much I love people. I have compassion for people, rich and poor. But I don't think that wealth is always much of a gift.

Spiritual wealth and intelligence are the gifts, the legacy for which I am so grateful to my ancestors. Also health. Good health runs in my family.

I wish that more people could enjoy the spiritual wealth and the wealth that comes from loving learning.

Having a lot of money is, from what I have seen (and I have barely made a living in my life) not what it is put up to be.

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Response to togetherforever (Original post)

Sat Feb 27, 2016, 03:18 PM

116. Some of the rich are OK . .

 

in fact, a majority of them want to pay higher taxes.

http://www.cnbc.com/2014/05/06/cnbc-survey-shows-millionaires-want-higher-taxes-to-fix-inequality.html

Most of them are not like the KOCH Bros.

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Response to FairWinds (Reply #116)

Sat Feb 27, 2016, 04:57 PM

137. I didn't say they were all bad people

 

They are discounted from the realities we face in a day to day struggle .


In my personal opinion Hillary is a prime example of this.

I feel when I listen and more importantly watch Bernie speak he gets it.

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Response to togetherforever (Original post)

Sat Feb 27, 2016, 03:24 PM

120. Lots of people do. Like Trump said, "I've personally hired tens of thousands

 

of people." Multiple him by however many 'really rich' people there are in the US, and most every working American has known a 'really rich' person.

I agree with those here who say that most of them are (in my experience) wonderful people.

Maybe my view is colored by the fact that I'm gay, and rich people of every and any sexuality have always tended to be 'nicer' towards gay people than the typical American.

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Response to togetherforever (Original post)

Sat Feb 27, 2016, 03:29 PM

123. Yeah, I know a few

To my knowledge, they all worked their way up. I don't think I know any that just inherited money and didn't know the other side of life.

My only problem as certain friends get into the high 1% is that sometimes it's a lot harder to contact them and get a response. I mainly attribute that to that there's probably a zillion people trying to reach them too. But when I do get in touch, they're invariably nice, and fully appreciative of their luck in life and not forgetful at all of how they got there.

Yeah, Hillary is rich now. She had a President for a husband. As Senators (as well as presidents) they get lifetime pensions that will blow away the average mortal makes. There's also speaking fees, and books. Also, depending on how the campaign ran, they get access to the leftover campaign funds.

Hell, I'd max it out too. But I'd hate to think it would disqualify me, particularly all the experience I picked up in the process of getting there.

Even when I made a lot more money (pushing me to the 1% too, though that's not the case any more) I still went to the store every day, knew how to use the self-checkout, knew the prices of most of the stuff I bought. I couldn't have answered the gotcha question of how much is a gallon of milk or a dozen eggs because I'm lactose interolant and don't drink milk and simply don't like eggs. But I buy them now for my family and I know what the costs are ($2.50 to $4 for milk, depending on what brand you get, and anywhere from $2 to $6 for eggs, depending if they're generic or fancy "organic" eggs from chickens raised in what sounds like spas on a tropical island).

There is an advantage to being rich, having come up from basically nothing. You get to see both sides of the coin. You know what it's like to have to struggle, and you also know what can be done when you have power and money, and you'd be surprised how that viewpoint works. I'm still lucky enough to have a house, fireplace, dogs, and multiple cars, but that doesn't mean I've forgotten what it was like to earn $4.50 minimum wage (or less! I think $2.50 or $3.25 when I started), ride my bike to work and live in a hostel for $45/month. Just because you worked past that doesn't mean you no longer remember or care about that. If anything, it's given me an expanded view of life. I'm not currently valued in the millions, but even if I was, I wouldn't be out of touch.

I have some people I know that have more money than I can imagine ever getting at this point. But they all started from scratch, and are perfectly friendly. Suspicious of new friendships, perhaps, but I assume that comes with the territory. But for people they know and trust, they're great.

If you're looking at a trust-fund baby, like that asshole "affluenza" Ethan Couch, then yeah, you'll find jerks.

I'm voting for Bernie myself (already have, since I live in NH), but if I was going to vote against Hillary, it wouldn't be because she had money or access to it. I'm going to vote for the Dem nominee whichever one it is, but I'm not going to write her off because she succeeded and think she doesn't remember anything.

Trump, however, has succeded most expectations but I won't vote for him because of that, simply because I think he's a dangerous asshole with no mental filter. I do give him credit, though, I think he's a great negotiator and a compelling self-marketer (he's gone the farthest while spending the least), but his values don't match mine, or even America's I think. I might hire him to run a company, but not the country.

I lived in Burlington when Bernie was mayor. I had a front-row seat at a recent "town hall" meeting that he ran. In all this time, he is just consistent, and I'll vote for him in a second. Hillary is not my first choice, but I'm not going to dismiss her just because she and Bill (both lawyers, and politicians, and compelling speakers (specifically, Bill)). If she's in the GE, then I'll vote for her. Not my first choice, but I'm not going to throw her out just because she was smart enough to earn money.

Do you remember Ross Perot? He had a shitload of money and a lot of, seemingly, radical but on-topic ideas. I suspect he would have done better now than 20 years ago. He didn't have it all quite together, and made a dent but didn't win. If Bernie had made $20 million on some investment, would you discount him too? I'd hope not.

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Response to togetherforever (Original post)

Sat Feb 27, 2016, 03:34 PM

128. I have worked for celebrity royalty

 

We used to communicate thru their personal assistants some of whom were really cool and some were worse than their bosses .
Society now can see the 1 %er's wealth more than ever before as the 1%ers can't see the 99% ers
Growing up I never saw a gated community or people living in cars .

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Response to togetherforever (Original post)

Sat Feb 27, 2016, 04:12 PM

132. That's exactly what we have done in my family.

6 early votes in Texas, just from my immediate family.

We're moving forward and never looking back. The Democratic Party better wake up.

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Response to togetherforever (Original post)

Sat Feb 27, 2016, 04:25 PM

135. I've heard/read politicians in D.C. say what a bubble they live in.

They rarely mix it up with commoners or find themselves in "normal" day-to-day
struggles, etc. and as a result they feel a disconnect or tend to think more
in the abstract or with tunnel vision. I think some actually long for some touchstone
to regular life while others aren't even conscious of their rarified existence.
And of course most of our politicians as well as CEO level business people
are in the 1% to boot, though that can come with a whole other set of problems,
just at another level.

The wealthiest people I've known vary quite a bit, but once you know them personally
it tends to humanize them. If you think of all rich people in the abstract then of course
just like any group, they are dehumanized. Many have inherited their life and know
nothing else. Others with a conscience feel a huge responsibility comes with their wealth
and though they will never be poor, they do try to use their class position to better others's lives.
And then there are people like you describe, whom I've also run into, who are very egocentric
and whether they've come from humble backgrounds and are self made, or whether they've
inherited their wealth, they need to feel that they stand apart from those who are less
educated, poorer, etc. It's a sense of entitlement. They tend to be authoritarian and are accustomed to handling a small army of people who service them and their lifestyle much like an old southern plantation owner might have dealt with their slaves.

So while I advocate connections that humanize us, it does seem pretty clear that it is no coincidence
that such a divide in income has occurred. Many in the upper echelons have been seized by greed and a desire to hold onto their power. This is not a new pattern. It happened when we moved from an agricultural to an industrial base. Now its a shift to globalization and technology with many left behind. And because greed leads to corruption, just about every system must be rebalanced, which usually comes from a revolt by the have nots.


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Response to Lodestar (Reply #135)

Sat Feb 27, 2016, 09:08 PM

185. Bernie is a charter member of the Washington elite

Does this apply to him?

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Response to togetherforever (Original post)

Sat Feb 27, 2016, 05:09 PM

140. KICK

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Response to togetherforever (Original post)

Sat Feb 27, 2016, 05:17 PM

141. I don't know exactly how much wealth people had when I met them...

but people with wealth (that I've met) were generally OK people, but yes, the ones I've met tended to be on the conservative side. I think the ones who were NOT born into wealth had a lot more sympathy and empathy for regular working people than the ones who were born into wealth. I can't say I've ever met a true "silver spooner", so I can't comment on how decent they are.

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Response to togetherforever (Original post)

Sat Feb 27, 2016, 05:18 PM

142. In the 1950's, 60 and 70's it was different. They were leaders. Now, not so much.

Now they are money and things collectors. The idea now is to collect more money because nothing curbs one.

The ones I knew were more new rich. The old money in Detroit was on the east side. The newspaper owners, the construction company heads, top engineers with patents, architects that my father would visit were kind thoughtful engaging persons who actually did not care if you had millions, had none or even lost it all -- each whom I knew -- as a kid. One was a yoga ranch owner who Thom Hartmann and I know.

There was plenty of wealth despite the 90% plus top tax rate.

We still have plenty of wonderful rich people, but, I fear, too many that are simply scared to lose anything. There is no good amount of money that would be enough to stop and start being a good person to people instead. And, they have nothing else to do, no leadership role to take, and that makes them not such nice people.

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Response to togetherforever (Original post)

Sat Feb 27, 2016, 05:30 PM

143. I used to know some really rich people....

 

Their idea of "trouble at home" is when the the butler and the maid are arguing with the chauffeur.

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Response to Spitfire of ATJ (Reply #143)

Sat Feb 27, 2016, 06:29 PM

156. Oh, those "Upstairs, Downstairs" woes.

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Response to togetherforever (Original post)

Sat Feb 27, 2016, 05:56 PM

147. Clinton and other oligarchs by definition don't relate to the little people.

 

They are the ruling class and can't be bothered with pain and suffering of the "workforce" which to them is simply a resource... like coal, oil or other raw materials. They don't see humans as people... unless of course they go to the same country club.

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Response to togetherforever (Original post)

Sat Feb 27, 2016, 06:29 PM

157. In answer to your question...no. But if I did...

 

I would probably have killed them already. (joke if you need to be told...definitely probably a joke....)

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Response to togetherforever (Original post)

Sat Feb 27, 2016, 06:36 PM

158. Yes

Some members of my family are filthy.

Most of them are rightwing Reeps.... sad to say.

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Response to togetherforever (Original post)

Sat Feb 27, 2016, 06:37 PM

159. Bernie fosters inclusion, cooperation and consideration for others.

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Response to togetherforever (Original post)

Sat Feb 27, 2016, 07:09 PM

169. I think this story encapsulates: We were having a discussion about battered women with children.

The rich participant in the conversation said,

"Why don't they just leave?"

"Many have nowhere to go."

Why don't they just take the kids and check into a hotel?"

I rest my case.

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Response to togetherforever (Original post)

Sat Feb 27, 2016, 07:10 PM

170. Thats been my experience

….as well. They just don't get it. Anymore than most of us can begin to imagine the lifestyle they really have. We think we can, but you have to see it up close to really see the layers of entitlement they have on a daily basis.

They also have contempt for people who aren't at their economic level and absolutely blame the victim. But not overtly. It's just an implicit "understanding" between them.



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Response to togetherforever (Original post)

Sat Feb 27, 2016, 07:39 PM

174. I think you may have experienced some selection pressure.

If you are handling "prized possessions" you are by definition working with people who are by nature absorbed by material considerations.

Overall this rote attack on Hillary is specious, and very typical of the "guilt by association" logical fallacy which has become very fashionable here, to the detriment, I think, of addressing the exigency of the real emergency before us all.

These continuous attacks - the one I heard that Hillary is in favor of slavery being the most stupid - serve no purpose at all. It is not enough to say that everyone else is bad; it is far more important to say why and how you are good. More importantly it is important to show why you are good.

I have known a number of rich people, some very, very, very well and I would say that in my experience, those who are born rich tend to be the most clueless, although there are obvious exceptions, like Seward Johnson who built the wonderful Grounds for Sculpture near where I live.

Now my wife's uncle was not born rich, but is rich now and is still an asshole. My cousin got rich, and proved to be a compassionate helper for many members of his extended family.

Just last week I met with an extremely wealthy guy with a passion for engineering and for saving lives. He's demanding, driven, hard working, but totally devoted to making the world better. He could sit on his ass and live wonderfully, but he's not.

I once worked for a guy whose father gave him control of 100 million dollars when he graduated college and he treated people like plastic toy soldiers.

I don't really like Bernie Sanders. I think if he is elected he will end up flailing, an ideological Don Quixote who will prove ineffective in doing anything but making the world safer for reactionaries: And let's be clear. We are facing a strong and completely unscrupulous reactionary movement right now, a terrifying movement.

But this is not to say that Bernie Sanders is not a thoughtful and decent man. I'm sure he is.

But I am tired of these silly statements that "Hillary is like so and so, or supports so and so" that is based on tortured associations, with one's own pedestrian life is making me begin to despise a large portion of the Bernites I see here. They are not making Sandersism show in a positive light.

What is your point here? You're going to hang rich people? Throw them in prison? Nationalize their assets?

Are these your positive statements? What do you want to do? Smash the "prized possessions" of the assholes for whom you worked in order to exorcise your personal demons?

Or do you have some positive thing to say? Do you know how to say a positive thing about your candidate rather than negative things about Ms Clinton?

Grow up.



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Response to NNadir (Reply #174)

Sun Feb 28, 2016, 10:31 AM

238. You exaggerate

--what people are asking for is for big money interests NOT to be controlling everything including elections in this country. Bernie will fight for that. Bernie will fight for true democracy.

You know that.



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Response to marions ghost (Reply #238)

Sun Feb 28, 2016, 05:31 PM

254. Please avoid telling me what I do and do not know.

You and I don't know each other, and you are no more qualified to say what I know than I am qualified to announce that you have a Ph.D. in physical quantum chemistry with a thesis based on cycloadditions of carbon dioxide to epoxides.

From the shouting going on here, there isn't much "true democracy," going on. If the "people" are asking for something, they will have a right to vote accordingly; although that right may be under attack, particularly from the fascist types who are leading the Republican pack.

We don't choose the Democratic nominee by acclimation, based on who yells the loudest on a website. We hold primaries, caucuses, etc.

You know, the faith based assumption that Bernie Sanders will win is just that, an assumption. It's quite possible that Ms.Clinton will be the nominee. What then? Will all of the character assassination then make for a Trump victory? Would you be happy and thrilled with that? Will you be smugly satisfied, much like the Nader people were in 2000?

For the record, tens of thousands of people died in a far away country because it turned out that Bush was not the same as Gore.

You say Bernie Sanders will "fight."

My reference was to Don Quixote. Don Quixote "fought" for justice too, but is generally considered to have been, um, ineffective to the point of ridiculous.

It is not enough to announce you will "fight" for something. It is more important to know how to achieve an end.

We might have overturned Citizens United when Scalia died, but what we can see now is that the President of the United States is not powerful enough to cause the unwilling to do their duty. If Sanders is elected, will they magically be more co-operative?

You're kidding yourself, and the biggest problem I see in the world, is this: People are very, very, very, very comfortable lying to themselves.

Have a nice evening.

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Response to NNadir (Reply #254)

Sun Feb 28, 2016, 11:39 PM

258. Any reply to you would be a waste of time

Too many rebuttals come to mind, but I don't have time to write essays....and you wouldn't be interested anyway.

Adios.

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Response to marions ghost (Reply #258)

Mon Feb 29, 2016, 07:23 AM

260. You're correct this time. I'm not interested in simplistic things or, for people who don't have...

..."time" to express thoughts.

In general, I find people who don't have "time" to write, also don't have "time" to think, which of course is the problem in this country, and the reason we have such really, really, really, really poor selections for the Presidency, with one exception to my mind, and that exception isn't the "fighting" Senator from Vermont.

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Response to togetherforever (Original post)

Sat Feb 27, 2016, 07:41 PM

175. You didn't talk to either my husband or me.

But we both came from very middle class backgrounds, and we never forgot where we came from. We paid our employees well, took care of their health care benefits, and we were the only people in our profession to do so. We lived in a solidly Republican area where employees were treated like shit, but the women who worked for us, worked for my husband for over 30 years. Everyone likes to make these generalized statements about the so called "rich", but you are talking about a lot of Democrats that are just ordinary people who happen to have had the opportunity to gain wealth by hard work. We don't live in a different world because we have children that live and work and struggle just like everyone else.

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Response to Loki (Reply #175)

Sat Feb 27, 2016, 09:01 PM

182. Thank you for expressing it very well.

I grew up the daughter of a cook and an immigrant social worker. I now consider myself rich, through talent and education and some long years put into a risky career. But I never forgot where I came from -- or how tenuous "wealth" is.

One thing I've learned about the "rich" -- they don't always appear so. Sometimes we appear downright shabby. Those who "look rich" often are just trying to appear so, and are actually living on credit. They're not rich at all but heavily in debt as they try to finance their Rolexes and BMWs.

And yes, I'm a Bernie supporter.

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Response to togetherforever (Original post)

Sat Feb 27, 2016, 07:54 PM

177. I've been close with a number of wealthy AND extremely wealthy people - most of them were the most

liberal people I had ever met.

Very few showed any sign of snobbery. I grew up in a very large, very poor, Irish Catholic family with zero chance for college, but, still had amazing opportunities as an adult. Most of the wealthy sort I experienced would have been just as happy being roadies for the Grateful Dead. ; )

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Response to togetherforever (Original post)

Sat Feb 27, 2016, 07:58 PM

178. Well she said she...

She would not raise taxes on the middle class...or any household making $250k or less per year. So she seems a bit out of touch with where middle class is.

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Response to togetherforever (Original post)

Sat Feb 27, 2016, 07:59 PM

179. Many. I grew up with many and live amongst many (not by choice). Hillary is nothing like them.

She would be sitting back and enjoying her mansion without any concern for the problems of this country. Her main concern would be raking in more millions or becoming a billionaire.

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Response to togetherforever (Original post)

Sat Feb 27, 2016, 09:04 PM

184. Yes I worked with rich people and they are no better than I am

I had a job for awhile packing up rich people's home and unpacking when they moved to their new mansions. I never let them talk down to me and I always looked them in the eye when I talked to them. Some of my co workers were intimidated but I wasn't. At the end of the job they always thanked me personally. My boss was amazed I refused to be intimidated by them.

I also worked in the securities industry around rich asshole investment bankers and I always looked them in the eye and Never let them think they were better than me.

All of our $hit comes from the same place and it still smells.

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Response to togetherforever (Original post)

Sat Feb 27, 2016, 09:12 PM

187. I don't think it's wealth that launched Hillary into La-La Land

 

Hillary Clinton has come to believe it is her birthright to be President. She has also spent the last twenty-five years surrounded by sycophants who either strongly identify with her or are just jockeying for favor, but whatever their sincerity they are all too happy to reinforce her sense of entitlement.

The problem of course this is the *exact* same phenomenon displayed by Mitt Romney.

I deal with the extremely wealthy regularly and I find it hard to generalize. I know people who were broke college students less than a decade ago who have completely lost touch with reality and I know third-generation heirs who live far closer to the real world than I do. I also know some people with assets in the hundreds of millions who are completely incognito. Nothing about them would give away that they were anything other than affluent professionals.

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Response to togetherforever (Original post)

Sat Feb 27, 2016, 09:15 PM

188. Just about everyone I know in the US is in the global 1% by PPP income, so yeah

I know a whole lot of really, really rich people, and it's likely you do too. They're school teachers, office drones, struggling small business owners, retirees, auto mechanics, electricians, and lazy stoners who still get an allowance from their parents at the age of 35 (but he's got "plans", you see...).

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Response to togetherforever (Original post)

Sat Feb 27, 2016, 09:23 PM

190. A word about "the rich" and why they isolate themselves

If you're rich, EVERYONE calls you asking for money. Sometimes the charities are worthwhile (the hospital, shelters, etc.) Sometimes the charities are merely vanity projects (send our high school kids to Paris!).

After awhile, the rich begin to think that the only thing people want from them is their money. They grow weary and suspicious. They want to protect themselves and their privacy. They feel that others look at them and see only dollar signs. They know that contractors double the bills when they charge them. Eventually the only people they begin to trust are other people who have money -- people who don't care about money because they have it too.

If you regard the rich with rage and resentment, guess what? They know it. And they'll keep you at arm's length.

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Response to mainer (Reply #190)

Sun Feb 28, 2016, 10:22 AM

236. You describe the sickness well

but the problem is they ARE controlling our lives by virtue of their greed and political power.

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Response to marions ghost (Reply #236)

Sun Feb 28, 2016, 11:31 AM

240. I consider myself one of them. I'm a Bernie supporter.

How am i controlling your life? How am I pulling the strings of political power, except by giving money to the most liberal and progressive candidate we've ever had?

I am self-employed, work alone, and am exploiting no one. I pay the maximum tax rate. I'm the child of a refugee immigrant, and I'm grateful that this country allowed me to move higher than my parents ever dreamed for their children.

You have a lot of nerve judging everyone by your own warped view of human beings you don't even know.

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Response to mainer (Reply #240)

Sun Feb 28, 2016, 11:44 AM

241. OK, defend the rich

--which you do, in general terms, by your defensiveness. Seems to me that you agree that this country is abused by the rich but you are not willing to verbally put them down for it. The ones controlling my life. OK. But not convincing.

I talk about "the rich" in general terms. If the shoe fits, wear it. If it doesn't --don't.

I don't judge you for the #1 reason that I have no idea who you are. I judge the arrogant, narcissist, greedy rich. Nastiest people on the planet. They will not only destroy this country, they will destroy the planet itself if they can. It is a life-or-death struggle.

Fine with me if you don't identify. But at least acknowledge their obscene redirection of wealth and power as a very big problem for humanity as a whole. And my right to judge it.

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Response to marions ghost (Reply #241)

Sun Feb 28, 2016, 11:49 AM

242. You attacked a whole category of people

calling them all greedy, controlling bastards. And then you wonder, "why should you be so defensive, just because I called you a greedy bastard?"

I'm broad-minded enough to know that sweeping generalizations are too often wrong. If you're black, you must be "like all those other blacks." If you're rich you must be "like all those other rich bastards." if you're Christian, you must be "like all those horrible fundamentalists."

This approach leads to nothing but prejudice, misunderstanding, and group hatreds. It's sad to see this.

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Response to mainer (Reply #242)

Sun Feb 28, 2016, 12:04 PM

246. I said

if the shoe doesn't fit, don't wear it. YOU are the one making the association with yourself.

I'm sure you know that you won't get a lot of sympathy--not from those questioning how they and their children are going to make it in this economy. Many of us may seem to you to be comfortable, but we are indeed worried. In middle America, a person's living standard, even if not very high on the hog, may plummet in an instant. This insecurity you can't even imagine.

I defend my right to castigate "the rich" however I like. Call this a prejudice if you like, with your false analogies.

If it is a prejudice--it is one I am very proud of.

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Response to togetherforever (Original post)

Sat Feb 27, 2016, 09:27 PM

191. Just watch that TV show "Undercover Boss"

and you will see that pathetic side of the wealthy.

"I had no idea how hard these people worked."

"It is so difficult to listen to how bad the struggles of our employees are."

"These employees are such good people, with so many problems, and still they keep going."

Yep, they haven't got a clue.

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Response to togetherforever (Original post)


Response to togetherforever (Original post)

Sat Feb 27, 2016, 10:12 PM

194. Worst OP I've seen this election season

Step away from the computer... Take a deep breath...

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Response to togetherforever (Original post)

Sat Feb 27, 2016, 10:27 PM

195. You people are really sad!

You are such hypocrites. We are all people, people. All we've got is one another. I've had very little in my life, but I know some rich people. Some are sh&$s but most are good people and most of them not only give away a lot of money, but also volunteer to help less fortunate. So get over yourselves and take a look in the mirror. Just what have you done lately for anyone else?

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Response to katmille (Reply #195)

Sun Feb 28, 2016, 02:16 PM

252. You don't know rich people or the dog eat dog business world

I know much more of it than you do.

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Response to togetherforever (Original post)

Sat Feb 27, 2016, 10:27 PM

196. Most of the truly wealthy would commit suicide or have nervous breakdowns if they were

dragged down the the level of your average working person. I mean to an existence most of us are fairly happy with, and would be thrilled with if we had just a little more security. I'm fine if my plan plays out the way I hope. That means I can fish and drink beer within 100 miles of where I grew up for maybe 20 years after I retire. Add a few more years onto that where I'm still happy hanging out reading and watching tv once I can't get around so well. Not asking a hell of a lot am I? But if they can just work me to death, that 25 or 30 years is like a whole year of yacht fuel for some 1%er! They will kill me for that without even blinking as long as their hands are clean.

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Response to brewens (Reply #196)

Sun Feb 28, 2016, 10:19 AM

234. well said

I agree 100%.

basically they ARE killing people without remorse, right now.

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Response to togetherforever (Original post)

Sat Feb 27, 2016, 10:27 PM

197. My brother is an insurance adjuster. He had to visit a

claimant at his under construction beach house in Malibu not long ago, and I tagged along. The house is on a gated street, and the guy who owns the property also owns the house next door, which he bought from a well known actor. Rich doesn't begin to describe this guy's wealth - numerous real estate holdings in affluent communities in addition to the new construction. He showed us around and I was struck by the sheer unabashed no apologies over the top opulence of the place. One piece of custom curved glass, he proudly proclaimed, cost him $500k. He intends to occupy the place himself, but estimates if he put it on the market, it would sell for 40 million. He took great delight in pointing out all of the rich and famous people who are his neighbors.

OK, so what's my point? The entire time I was in that house and speaking with that man, I was incredibly uncomfortable. I knew I was completely out of my element and so did he. He was only briefly allowing us into his world because it was business. Otherwise the gate at the entrance to the street would have remained firmly shut. Ordinary mortals keep out.

I have never been a fan of White House banquets where the President and First Lady wine and dine the upper crust. Most politicians only come calling when they want our vote. Otherwise, we get no seat at the table.

With Bernie it's different. He is not a man of great wealth. He never forgot where he came from, and he's always championed the cause of the ordinary citizen. And he's not in it for the glory. He's truly in it for us. That's why he has my vote.

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Response to togetherforever (Original post)

Sun Feb 28, 2016, 12:31 AM

205. I know dozens of rich persons. They may not be wealthy, but they know . . .

. . . "...how to make their own music, bread, and love."---as a poet said.


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Response to togetherforever (Original post)

Sun Feb 28, 2016, 03:17 AM

208. I think that much of that

 

depends on where you live, and how they got rich.

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Response to togetherforever (Original post)

Sun Feb 28, 2016, 04:05 AM

209. you know them by what they do, how they act.

 

And Hillary is not "of the people". She has acted behind the scenes all her life to promote positions for the wealthy that injure regular Americans.

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Response to pdsimdars (Reply #209)

Sun Feb 28, 2016, 10:14 AM

232. She had to conform to get where she is...

but that route should not be rewarded at this juncture. She can give all the feel good speeches she wants, but she has bought in to the corrupt system too far--she is compromised by it with little impetus to do anything but support the status quo. Those who vote for her are supporting the status quo.

No way Hillary can change anything. And this country desperately needs BIG changes.

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Response to togetherforever (Original post)

Sun Feb 28, 2016, 05:13 AM

210. Yep

One person I know is very much like you described. She married into money and settled into an elitist existence that she had wanted for a long time.

Not only does she live in a bubble, she tries to insulate herself from any bad thing that might happen to people she knows. Honestly, if a family member she doesn't interact with very often died she wouldn't even want to know about it. She is critical of people who grieve or have bad feelings about their circumstances. She makes no effort to understand why. Other people's feelings are irrelevant. She also has an absurd sense of entitlement. One weird way she shows it is she doesn't worry about being on time anywhere, for anything. Of course, she also worries about the possibility of raising taxes, even though it would greatly benefit people she knows and allegedly cares about.

Little people and their problems are completely irrelevant and serve no purpose in her life unless they can help her somehow. For example, she held a fundraiser for a politician several yrs. ago. I was invited and asked if I could bring a friend. No. Peons were not invited unless they served a purpose. The crowd basically looked like the one in Ashley Williams' video until the party brought some volunteers to ensure there were some people of color in the room - just in case. That is probably a lesson Hillary's campaign will have taken from Ashley Williams' video and future privileged fundraisers will look more diverse.




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Response to togetherforever (Original post)

Sun Feb 28, 2016, 05:23 AM

211. "they don't think of themselves as equals with us"

I sure can relate to that. I expect South Carolina voters can as well.

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Response to togetherforever (Original post)

Sun Feb 28, 2016, 09:23 AM

223. As Democrats you'd think we'd all be against prejudice.

Prejudice is "pre-judging." It's a bad habit to fall into. It may seem safe to pre-judge rich people, but how easy is it, then, to pre-judge the Muslims in the next block, or the blacks one neighborhood over? Let's hold onto our commitment to eradicate prejudice.

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Response to LAS14 (Reply #223)

Sun Feb 28, 2016, 10:05 AM

231. Everyone judges

that's how intelligent people discuss things.

Your analogy is false. The Muslims next door are not controlling our politics.

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Response to marions ghost (Reply #231)

Sun Feb 28, 2016, 01:27 PM

250. "that's how intelligent people discuss things."

By judging others.

Wow.

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Response to mainer (Reply #250)

Sun Feb 28, 2016, 11:28 PM

256. Of course

--we all are constantly judging others, what "they" say, how they think, what they do.

Nothing at all wrong with the basic act of judging. Judging and categorizing others unfairly is called prejudice, but judging based on evidence (for ex--the behavior of wealthy Americans) is fine.

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Response to togetherforever (Original post)

Sun Feb 28, 2016, 09:44 AM

227. Excellent and timely post. nt

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Response to togetherforever (Original post)

Sun Feb 28, 2016, 10:18 AM

233. Since the beginning (around 2006), Hillary's campaign has been entirely about Hillary

 

Sanders and his supporters want the US and its residents to be as great as possible. Hillary and her supporters want Hillary to be president. They honestly don't care that the party is almost dead.

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Response to Doctor_J (Reply #233)

Sun Feb 28, 2016, 12:03 PM

245. A home in Hillary's NY hometown of Chappaqua



Plenty of "regular folks" moving right in..............

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