Question: If people are so certain that Trump would beat HRC (or Sanders), then why...

[Liberal_Stalwart71]

are Republicans so freaked out about him?

They must know something we don't.

Honestly, I don't think Trump beats either of our candidates.

I just don't.

Note: About the polls? They don't matter much right now because the political landscape changes daily.

Frankly, Cruz and Rubio are much more frightening to me.

[TCJ70]

1. The Republicans aren't worried about him not winning...

...their main argument against him is that he's not a real Republican. It comes out in every debate they have, his past positions that aren't in line with their "core conservative values" and such. I think they know full well he'll win the nomination and that scares them because they don't view him as truly one of them.

[Liberal_Stalwart71]

3. I don't buy it. Neither Mitt Romney nor McCain were considered "real" Republicans, and yet...

There was never this feverish pitch.

[Arazi]

15. I'd have to see many links documentating R politicos saying McCain and rMoney

aren't "real " Republicans

They're considered moderate so their "capitulations" are rejected by Conservatives but they've always been "real" Republicans afaik

[Barack_America]

23. Well, he hates trade deals, for one.

They'd rather have Hillary in the White House for that reason alone.

And they don't truly hate Hispanics anywhere near as much as Donald, immigration is just a convenient wedge issue for the GOP. They actually need Hispanics to survive as a party.

Not to mention his threat to announce who all politicians are owned by. He could actually do this country a service with that one.

He's not "sure" about Israel, is technically less Hawkish than even Clinton, despite his bluster.

Sooo many reasons for the GOP to be shitting their pants.

[Liberal_Stalwart71]

38. I just don't think they really care much about any of that. Winning at all costs is what they truly

Last edited Sun Feb 28, 2016, 01:33 AM - Edit history (1)

care about.

[eggman67]

42. ^This Republicans love, love, loooooove their FT deals.

He's a protectionist, it drives them mad.

[840high]

21. +1 spot on

[UglyGreed]

2. He is an outsider

simple as that. It's not very hard to understand.

[Liberal_Stalwart71]

7. Not simple. Insider. Outsider. It doesn't matter if they're confident that he'll win.

[UglyGreed]

13. Yes it is simple just look

at how they all have been attacking him. They don't want to take a chance just like the Democrats don't want to take a chance on Bernie. And please don't think I support Trump in anyway, I'm just calling it as I see it.

[Liberal_Stalwart71]

39. I would think they'd attack Bernie Sanders with equal fervor. I just don't buy it.

Maybe my mind will change as we get closer or there's a drastic change in the political trajectory.

[UglyGreed]

43. It's just the way I see

it, of course I could be wrong

[99th_Monkey]

4. As reprehensible and horrid as tRump is, no one has "bought him"

so the control freaks who like to buy candidates feel powerless and
nervous about tRump's "unpredictability factor" ..

[restorefreedom]

8. this right here is the reason^^^^^^^^^^ nt

[840high]

24. That, too.

[alcibiades_mystery]

5. It's just lashing out

The whole "Your candidate is going to lose in the general and then what will you say!" bit is just lashing out, and trying to hurt the other supporters feelings. None of this is serious analysis. It's part and parcel of silly season and happens every contested primary. There's no use even responding to it.

[Liberal_Stalwart71]

40. I actually agree with you. ;)

[Joe the Revelator]

6. They don't like Trump for the same reason many on our side don't like Hillary...

....they don't represent the core ideals of the party very well.

[Liberal_Stalwart71]

10. O.K., but Republicans have never been about "core values". They've always been about winning!

My argument: I don't think he can beat either of our candidates regardless of what you personally think about HRC.

[Joe the Revelator]

11. Unless you just totally dismiss polling, their front runners either beat or keep it...

within the margin of error nationally against Clinton.

[Liberal_Stalwart71]

14. I dismiss polling for the same reasons I posted in my OP: The match-ups don't matter this

early in the game. In politics, thing change very quickly.

[Joe the Revelator]

19. Then you also have to dismiss the entire history of Hillary as a politician.

Her poll numbers/voting results do not go up the longer a race lasts. In politics things change quickly, but not when there is a Clinton carrying your banner.

[Liberal_Stalwart71]

25. I'm not dismissing her candidacy. I'm making the argument that in spite of her candidacy

I just don't think Trump can win.

[Joe the Revelator]

27. Nothing backs that up aside from wishful thinking

I'm not saying that to be a dick, but as we sit here, on 2/27/16, he holds the cards. Save this post and hopefully you'll get to prove me wrong.

[Liberal_Stalwart71]

31. Sure. I will. Just keep in mind that politics is dynamic. Just as Sanders's supporters believe that

anything can change this race, the same holds true about politics in general.

Keep your head up.

[draa]

45. I believe he's missing a number of possible reasons.

Not the least of which is that neither party is likely to hold the WH for more than 2 terms. Not in a divided and apathetic electorate. For the same reason we turned out en mass in 2008 you can expect the Republicans to do the same this cycle. After 8 years of what many believe is hell they'll vote. And especially for Trump.

Since 1988 no party has held the WH more than 8 years. I really expect that trend to continue.

[NWCorona]

9. I'm biased for Bernie but

I'll admit that turn out has me worried. Regardless of who wins. Just look at the number's trump is pulling.

[Liberal_Stalwart71]

12. So if turnout is down on our side, that helps Trump even more, no?

[NWCorona]

17. I would think so. I think Republicans should be scared of Trump. He's all fluff

[840high]

28. Yes. Also their

last debate had the highest rating ever.

[Liberal_Stalwart71]

32. Entertainment factor. Hell, I'm watching now with my popcorn and wine in tow. ;)

[NWCorona]

35. We are being very complacent and IMHO not fully realizing what's at stake.

[Liberal_Stalwart71]

47. Wholly agree!

[justabob]

59. yeah... it is a strange season

It is entirely possible that dems are voting in GOP primaries strategically. Could be they'd rather influence THAT side. I know a few dem people here in Texas that are voting in the GOP primary. I never hear anyone mention that, but seems like something that might influence the turn out numbers. Since the overall number is so low, a few people could have an impact. I dunno. This election has been fascinating, so far.

[jfern]

16. There are reasons the establishment Republicans could be freaked out

about him even if he would win. He's not friendly enough to the military industrial complex, for one.

[Lizzie Poppet]

18. Republicans are freaked out because he CAN win in November...

...and the Republican powers-that-be don't control him at all. It's his sole redeeming factor: he drives the RNC, et al, out of their tiny little minds.

[Liberal_Stalwart71]

20. That logic doesn't make sense. Even if he has a chance, he'll destroy down ticket Republicans,

especially in swing districts/states.

He won't win Hispanics, women or blacks and even a large proportion of whites.

I just don't buy it.

[Lizzie Poppet]

33. Possibly. But there are other down ticket influences.

Hillary seriously motivates the far right...they hate her guts with a burning passion, as too-often expressed in horrible, misogynistic terms. I genuinely believe Bernie is the better candidate for downballot concerns (and the presidency, but that's a different question).

[Liberal_Stalwart71]

36. Wouldn't the same ring true of a Sanders candidacy? Why would they behave any differently...

...particularly when they stupidly yell and scream about socialism/communism.

Oh...and he's a LIBERAL JEW FROM BROOKLYN!!

I don't see how a Bernie Sanders candidacy wouldn't galvanize the right in the same way HRC's will.

They hate Democrats for a reason, and Sanders is no different.

In fact, I would argue that it is precisely because he's more liberal, that would totally mobilize the right wing.

[Lizzie Poppet]

50. You may be right.

I've seen more hatred of Hillary (by a mile), but it's only very recently that Sanders has been seen as a legitimate candidate, and I have no doubt that as long as he stays in the race (and his national polling continues to rise), he'll be more of a target. The Hillary hate's been brewing since Bill's presidency, though...

I hear compliments about Bernie (based on integrity) from the handful of conservatives I know personally...but I doubt they're a representative group, so I hesitate to make too much out of that.

[Liberal_Stalwart71]

52. "I hear compliments about Bernie (based on integrity) from the handful of conservatives"...

I like this. This is good news.

But I still think that if Bernie Sanders was a real threat, the Republican **candidates** would be pummeling him whether they like him or not.

The same was true of Barack Obama in terms of integrity and they certainly saw him as a threat.

[onenote]

22. Despite all the deep analysis here, it's really very simple

Career politicians of all stripes are motivated by one thing more than anything else: getting re-elected. And the reason that the repubs are freaked out about Trump is that a lot of them don't want to have to have him hung around their necks when they run for re-election. The ads showing a picture of a repub candidate along side video of Trump making some his most outrageous comments will flood the airwaves. A lot of repub candidates in competitive races will not be comfortable sharing a stage with Trump when he campaigns in their states.

That's why.

[Liberal_Stalwart71]

29. ABSOLUTELY!! The same argument I made: He's a drag on the down ticket, which goes back

to my original point.

Despite what people think of Bernie, Hillary or whatever...

HE CAN'T (and won't) WIN!!!!

[azurnoir]

26. The GOP is freaked because he isn't part of their old boys club and he's independently wealthy

he doesn't need them just their name, IOW they can't bring him to heel

[840high]

30. Yep - and that's

a big part of his appeal to the voters.

[azurnoir]

34. if there is a candidate that's attracting angry young white men it's Trump not Bernie

and that's the sad truth

[Recursion]

37. They're freaked out because Trump supports universal health care and a wealth surtax

His policies are all over the place.

[Liberal_Stalwart71]

41. So was Mitt Romney and so IS Rubio. They're always all over the place.

[Grassy Knoll]

44. IMHO If tRump Is The Nominee.....

Republicans will come out in droves to elect Hillary.
It's in the air.

[Liberal_Stalwart71]

48. Agreed! ;)

[TTUBatfan2008]

46. Because he's not a real conservative

Rubio was complaining the other day that if Trump is the nominee, it will change the party forever. Trump supports Planned Parenthood, universal health care, and he's far left of the other GOP candidates on globalization/outsourcing. They are scared shitless of the party going left on at least a few big issues.

[BernieforPres2016]

49. Because the RNC is as clueless as the DNC

They want business as usual and think the voters are going to swallow another bought and paid for status quo politician.

[grasswire]

51. SAnders beats Trump in the polls by seven points..

Hillary by only one, last poll that I saw.

[Liberal_Stalwart71]

57. Again, as in my OP, polls are snapshots in time. They are no indication of what will

happen even a day or week from now. That will be true for both HRC and Bernie.

And again I ask: If Sanders is more of a threat, then I expect Republicans to be beating him up more than they're doing to HRC. I just don't see that he's a significant threat...YET!!

[SheilaT]

53. There are two totally separate issues at stake.

One is would Hillary beat Donald? Would Sanders beat Donald? Current polling shows Sanders would but Hillary wouldn't.

The other, almost unrelated issue is: What kind of a President would Hillary be? What kind of a President would Bernie be? What kind of a President would Donald be? Personally, I think Bernie would be great, Hillary would be terrible, and Donald would be apocalyptic. While I am not remotely crazy about what I see as Hillary's policies, at least she had been in government, as has Bernie, and they both understand how the system works. Donald apparently sees the Presidency as just another reality show, where he can fire people if he doesn't care for them. He hasn't a clue how the system actually works. He doesn't quite get it that he won't be able to fire Supreme Court justices, or Senators, although he will be able to fire cabinet members. He won't be able to fire the heads of the many agencies that help run our country. He won't be able to implement laws immediately, or get rid of the ones he doesn't like. In short, our country would come to a screeching halt about 20 minutes after his inauguration.

It's somewhat scarier to realize that a lot of people who think he'd be just great as President also don't understand how the system actually works. They'll be rooting for him. They won't get why he can't just fire everyone he wants to fire. The won't understand that we have a Constitution that describes most of how things are done. Admittedly, the current Republicans in the Senate also don't understand that, but that's a bit of a separate conversation.

[longship]

54. It's really simple. I'll give the formula.

If one is a Hillary supporter one is more likely to say that Bernie cannot beat Trump.

If one is a Bernie supporter one is more likely to say that Hillary cannot beat Trump.

Simple isn't it?

Of course, the reality is that we have two terrific candidates -- I prefer Bernie in the MI primary -- and either of them will eviscerate Trump in the general election.

This will especially happen if we set aside petty squabbles and stand together.

Do not forget, we can have a great victory this year if we stick together, however it is now looking like voter turnout is low. How in the Sam Hell are we going to fix that if we divide ourselves when the nominee is determined?

That is utter fucking madness.

United we stand; divided we fall.

Best to you all.

[Liberal_Stalwart71]

56. You got it! This was my initial point. I hate Hillary Clinton, but I agree that we must find a way..

to come together.

[longship]

61. That's right!

[GoneFishin]

55. He's a loose cannon with a big ego. The Koch brother clan won't be able to control him.

[Land Shark]

58. Real simple: Repubs compete to be the most radical and Trump is winning w/o being 100% rightwing

Reps are freaked out they can't control Trump and he is not 100% conservative.

[basselope]

60. He beats Hillary easily.. Sanders beats Trump.

Now, why are they afraid of him?

First, nothing scares them more than the thought of "President Sanders"

Second, because they fear he is playing them and isn't REALLY a republican.

This is a guy who stood on a stage and blamed 9/11 on bush.

This is a guy who was against the Iraq War.

This is guy who in 2000 ran on a platform of single payer health care.

Why are the republicans scared, because they are afraid he will sell them up the river and even if he isn't, they are afraid Sanders could beat him.

Do you really think the GOP is scared of another Clinton in the white house? They get everything they want that way.

[Live and Learn]

62. Because he is less conservative than Hillary? nt