Elizabeth Warren is being swarmed for not endorsing Bernie Sanders

[KitSileya]

The Berniebros (I am assuming many Sanders supporters would want to disavow them, so I use that therm deliberately) swarmed every post she made berating her for not endorsing Sanders to the point where she'd had to turn off comments on the last couple of posts. She's now turned comments back on in the last 12 hours, resulting in a 600+ comment pile-on with her last post.

Some example of comments on a post about making a cake on Valentine's day, which was her mother's birthday:

"Dawn Jones She is not the person we thought she was. If she truly was what she has been portraying then she would have endorsed months ago. What are you waiting for, a promise of an appointment from the HRC camp? Stand up!!!!!"

" I WAS a supporter! Held signs and all,but I have been seeing a side of you that was not what I was fighting for. You haven't endorsed BERNIE,because you are not of the same beliefs! It saddens me to know ALOT OF US WILL NOT BE BEHIND YOU NEXT ELECTION FOR U. #FEELTHEBERN #BERNIEORBUST"

"Senator Elizabeth Warren, don't you think it's about time you endorse Bernie Sanders? Are you going to make a stand like Tulsi Gabbard did? She was brave enough to step outside the DNC and endorse the way she really feels. Are you? Is Mrs. Gabbard a stronger person than you? Are you just playing politics safe for your political gains?"

"ENDORSE BERNIE. WHAT ARE YOU WAITING FOR?????"

https://www.facebook.com/ElizabethWarren

Mind you, this isn't her official facebook page as U.S. Senator, it's her more personal one. (I am sure that she has a completely private one too, but either way, 1,000s of comments like that create a heck of a lot of work.)

[stonecutter357]

1. shameful.

[Cobalt Violet]

7. Her constituents telling her that they're disappointed in her is shameful?

They have every right to! She's our Senator. She works for us.

[brooklynite]

12. "She works for us"

...as a US Senator. Where in the Constitution do political endorsements get mentioned.

[DemocratSinceBirth]

15. She's a United States senator. She works for all of us.

She's all our employee.

[Cobalt Violet]

20. some people get to vote for her or not and A LOT of them support Bernie.

They want it know to her. Deal with it.

[DemocratSinceBirth]

22. I pay her salary and she has to take my concerns into account as well.

Deal with it.

[Cobalt Violet]

25. sure just like the republican do cuz you pay their salary too.

[DemocratSinceBirth]

31. I expect them to listen to me too but they lack the perspicacity to embrace my wise counsel./nt

[Hortensis]

223. :) Barely glanced at this thread and almost entirely

all comments so far are excuses for the harassment of someone who was greatly admired by most of them. The fickleness is amazing, the duality of a large group that can turn to or turn on with each event alarming. Fortunately it's on line and not in her front yard.

[DemocratSinceBirth]

233. Moral certainty is a tool that can be wielded for good or evil./nt

[Hortensis]

243. Sigh, yes. Problem is it seems always to be wielded. What about

setting the certainty down and adding some knowledge to underlay the certainty! You know, search for wisdom, instead of flaming.

I'm a liberal. I am constantly bemused and dismayed by radical behavior, and embarrassed. Wish Bernie had formed his own party instead of trying to pass himself off as a Democrat.

[lunamagica]

130. And a LOT of them don't. Deal with it.

[MADem]

184. And a lot of them DON'T support Bernie. If she were picking an endorsement based on the probable

winner in MA, Clinton is up by three or four points.

Now, I'm first to acknowledge that that's nothing--it's really a neck and neck race. Either candidate could win tomorrow.

But what benefit is there to really, REALLY pissing off half the people who voted for her to make the other half all smug and happy?

And that applies no matter who she endorses.

Better to keep her mouth shut.

A few people will grumble, and then they'll get over it.

[Cobalt Violet]

241. Looks like the hillary people will have to get over it

Go Bernie!

[MADem]

245. Are you referring to that hoax New York Times article that said she was endorsing him?

Looks like you'll have to be disabused.

That was a mean joke that someone played on both sides. Something a troll would do. It's all over the internet but if you look at the URL it goes to a place called Clone Zone.

She hasn't endorsed anyone. She's unlikely to--if I had to guess, she'll give her super vote to the winner of the primary.

[merrily]

79. Isn't that true of all Senators?

[Lizzie Poppet]

136. Except that's not really how it works.

Senators represent their states first. Obviously a good one considers the effects of their decisions on all Americans...but their first priority is their own state constituents. I have no problem with that.

[Orrex]

160. Sure, but she's not at your beck-and-call.

Here's an obscure bit of text that gives some idea of the job as she likely sees it:

I do solemnly swear (or affirm) that I will support and defend the Constitution of the United States against all enemies, foreign and domestic; that I will bear true faith and allegiance to the same; that I take this obligation freely, without any mental reservation or purpose of evasion; and that I will well and faithfully discharge the duties of the office on which I am about to enter: So help me God.

Sure, in broad terms, we expect our elected Representatives to serve our will, but it's naive to assume that they must jump merely because you wish it. She's certainly under no obligation to given an endorsement simply because you think that you have some authority to demand it.

If you're so grossly upset about her failure to act as your agent, then by all means vote her out. But don't kid yourself into thinking that she needs your approval before she opens her mouth on any individual issue.

[MADem]

178. Apparently "some people" think that they can bully her into making an endorsement.

Do some people actually need Senator Warren to tell them how to vote? I mean, come on!

I think she wants to work with the next POTUS and isn't going to throw up any firewalls that aren't needed. The closest we're going to see of any kind of "endorsement" is that she signed a letter urging Clinton to run, and she has said Sanders has some good ideas.

Beyond that, I think she's waiting this one out. MA is a "neck and neck" state--all she'd do is piss off half her constituency by choosing one over the other.

[Warren DeMontague]

216. Saying "I think you should do this" is bullying?

How are constituents supposed to express their opinion to their representatives, if they can't tell them "I think you should do this"?

[MADem]

218. Go to the link. Some of the comments there are downright ugly. Quick sampler:

The "You're a Shitty Democrat with BAD CHARACTER" approach:

It makes me question just how much you actually care about the issues you fight for in the Senate. Bernie is your best Ally. Same vision. Same vigor, yet you withhold endorsement. If you genuinely care about your platform... this is your time to act.
#losingfaithinyourcharacter


You will be to blame if Bernie doesn't win Mass on Tuesday because you have not endorsed him yet.... WTF are you waiting for?

Seems to me Sen. Warren should be taking the same brave stance that #TulsiGabbard has taken by endorsing Sen. Sanders. Or is it politics as usual? Not really such an idealist!!!

I hope everyone unlikes her page if she doesn't endorse Bernie by tonight. This is ridiculous. I never thought she would be like this...


#BernieSanders MUST WIN - He is not only the best choice for American, he is the only one who can beat Trump! Your continued silence will make Trump President and there are a vast number of us, myself included, who will never vote for Hillary!!!! WHAT ARE YOU WAITING FOR???


The "You're only in it for some BENNIES, you deceiver" appproach:
She is not the person we thought she was. If she truly was what she has been portraying then she would have endorsed months ago. What are you waiting for, a promise of an appointment from the HRC camp? Stand up!!!!!

If you fail to endorse a cadidate like Bernie who's political lens you seem to share, and later you take a place in a Clinton administration, you will secure a career, but you will also lose a large portion of credibility. People will assume you skipped an endorsement on the eve of a close race in your state as a favor for the Clinton campaign.


The "You aren't doing what I want so I hate you now and won't support you any more!" approach (a close cousin to the "I bought you a milkshake, that gives me the right to squeeze it outta ya" approach to 1930s dating).

i'm incredibly disappointed that she hasn't endorsed Bernie ...mind-like people in meaningful positions that don't stand up for each other's same beliefs is like a recipe for failure ... .. most of all, it comes off as not caring for their own beliefs... which makes me stop to think.. "Why Should I Care So Much? if My Own Leaders Don't"

I WAS a supporter! Held signs and all,but I have been seeing a side of you that was not what I was fighting for. You haven't endorsed BERNIE,because you are not of the same beliefs! It saddens me to know ALOT OF US WILL NOT BE BEHIND YOU NEXT ELECTION FOR U. #FEELTHEBERN #BERNIEORBUST

Senator Warren, you are letting us down. Please endorse Bernie Sanders for president.


Have some guts and endorse Bernie Sanders

Get off the fence, the longer you wait, the lower your credibility


The basic name calling approach:


Senator Warren; You ignore the elephant in the room with the greatest aplomb… an acquired trait of the consummate politician.

In and of itself, your reluctance to choose a candidate is a political ploy, no matter if you stay silent for the entire nominating process, or endorse someone tomorrow.

We are tired of consummate politicians and their political maneuvering and we are paying attention, finally.

Shame on Elizabeth Warren. You have NO guts to endorse the only candidate who shares your values. I never thought I would say this, but you're just another opportunistic politician.


There needs to be a primary challenge for a calculated, self serving so called "progressive" politician!


dizzy lizzy o crapohontis


GET OFF THE GOD DAM FENCE AND ENDORSE BERNIE....WTF


Just another politician. Your silence says so much more than your lip service. You have a chance to help Bernie but you keep quiet. I hope the people that used to believe in you remember that when you had a chance to get in the game and back up what you say, you decided to sit on the bench. I guess your political career is more important than your supposed convictions. Just another sellout.

Stop with the lip service already and endorse Bernie Sanders! Your silence speaks volumes

The Creepy Stalker:


Mrs. Warren My name is ---- from Florida, I call and leave a message on your machine everyday Urging you to please ENDORSE Bernie Sanders for president. Politics is not a pretty thing.. Clinton is definately not a pretty thing.. However, you can not allow her to throw your name around like she did on Morning Joe when she stated she uses you as an advisor to her campaign. We are not stupid, we understand your detest for her. You are everything she wished she could be. My grandmother was an intuitive... she would say.. "Honey, some people get good souls, and some people get wretched souls".. its what we do with those souls that matter most. Elizabeth Warren You have a good soul, it is time for you to use it for the ALL MAN KIND.. for your kids sake, for my kids sake.. for our grandchildre.. YES... Elizabeth Warren I am begging you to please endorse Bernie Sanders Before it is too late. God Bless

Just the tip of the iceberg....

[Warren DeMontague]

228. Okay, so some people are abrasive, and some people are weird Jesus freaks.

welcome to the internets.

[MADem]

230. I barely scratched the surface there--there are hundreds and hundreds of petulant, angry and

sometimes vicious posts. It's not "Welcome to the internets." It's weird and bullying. "If you don't do what I say, I'll (fill in the blank)." Like they OWN her, or something.

I mean, shit--if she endorsed him OR her at this late stage I would be surprised--it would make her look bad. Waiting until the last minute is a bit of a cheap shot/emotion tug surprise. Plus, it makes it look like she didn't want to do any of the surrogate work in the state that endorsers take on--it would make her look LAZY, frankly and that is never a good look.

Some people say (and some people might be wrong) that the reason she doesn't endorse is because she's going to give her super delegate vote to the winner of the primary--i.e., give her vote to her constituents (a bit more accurate a poll than some internet thing). I've never heard her say this, specifically, but she wouldn't be the first to take this attitude.

[Warren DeMontague]

231. I suspect "fill in the blank" is "not vote for you"

I didn't think she would endorse him, FWIW.

[MADem]

234. I think she's going to stay right on the fence, and give her vote to the primary winner in MA if

it comes down to a contest when the convention begins.

But we'll see.

[Warren DeMontague]

235. I don't think it's going to come down to a contest. I think Hillary has it quite likely sewn up.

Which is fine, obviously not my first choice but I've been expecting it all along.

But I strenuously hope that both we here on DU can cease with the "berniebro" bullshit and she starts running a better campaign, because nothing should be taken for granted vis a vis November.

[MADem]

244. Latest polls have them neck and neck. Four or five point difference.

That's pretty much MOE.

It's down to turn out, I think. Of course, I'm talking locally (MA). I think she's well positioned in many states. I don't take anything for granted.

[Warren DeMontague]

249. I'd strongly advise her to get a little more clear and forward-thinking on pot legalization, then.

Because as she moves west that's gonna matter.

But, she doesn't listen to me, even though she should.

[MADem]

250. She's ahead of Warren on the topic.

I think most people realize that pot is going to happen at the state level, rather like equality did, and when we get up past the tipping point, around thirty or so states, then either everyone will just jump onboard or the Supremes will legalize the stuff.

It's a plant, for heaven's sake.

[Snotcicles]

43. She doesn't hesitate to send me email when she wants my support on something. nt

[merrily]

82. Exactly. If the fix had been in for Sanders, and all the federal Super Dupers had

endorsed him, you can bet Hillary supporters would be treating them like they've treated us.

However, since the fix is in and most of the Super Delegates have endorsed Hillary, they can play holier than thou.

[yeoman6987]

97. It's true she does work for you

But she may not want to endorse which will not make anyone happy including Hillary supporters. I don't think she can win this one no matter what.

[Snotcicles]

118. I guess it depends on what you consider winning. To me following ones conscience is the real win. nt

[TM99]

204. The perhaps it is time for Warren

to at least come out and say that.

All of this coyness is bullshit. Either endorse one or the other, or say I am not endorsing anyone until the primary is over.

See how simple that really is?

But because she does not, it makes one wonder why? Is she hedging her bets? Is she the progressive some believe her to be? Is she concerned about the Clinton Machine? What?

And in a free country with freedom speech, I am tickled pink that some are holding her feet to the fire. If the OP has the freedom to spew her venom with the whole Berniebro meme then surely these people have the same right? Correct?

[MADem]

212. Maybe, just maybe, she doesn't care who wins?

I take people to the polls. I have a few regulars who don't care, who say they'll vote for the winner.


And maybe, just maybe, she doesn't want to piss off half her constituency by making a choice? No matter who she picks, half of her donor base will be pissed.


She's not stupid. Better to stay silent and be thought a "traitor" (by either side) than make an endorsement and remove all doubt.

[MADem]

179. And you are free to tell her to pound sand and block her emails.

If you're a citizen of the Commonwealth, though, and her constituent, she's pretty much got to listen to you, up to the point that you become abusive or threatening, that is (not that you would, necessarily).

But she doesn't have to take your advice.

You can weigh her decision making, her votes, her public comments, etc., and if you are a constituent, you can either vote for her--or someone else--based on how she performs. If you aren't a constituent, but simply an interested party, you can donate to her--or not--depending on how well you like what she says.

Your choice.

[treestar]

93. only the ones from MASS are her constituents

[MADem]

183. +1,000! We put her in that seat, and we can take her out, too. That's why she's not endorsing--

she's not stupid.

MA voters are pretty evenly split and the race is neck and neck.


Who in their right mind would piss off HALF their constituency when keeping silent will simply produce a little grumbling all round?

She's said that Sanders has some good ideas. She signed a letter urging HRC to run for POTUS.

That's all you're gonna get out of her. I wouldn't look for more.

[Kentonio]

187. Who indeed. Yet I can't help but think you took rather a different position when it was PP.

[MADem]

198. PP? Not clear on your meaning. Planned Parenthood? What? nt

[Kentonio]

209. Yes, when Planned Parenthood made their entirely unnecessary endorsement and split their support

[MADem]

210. PP can do what PP wants to do.

Do I support their mission? Yes. Did I donate when Komen cut them off? Oh yes.

Would I care if PP endorsed Sanders to the point that I'd withhold a donation? Of course not.

Put another way--if Elizabeth Warren endorsed a candidate I didn't like, would that change my mind about the candidate I favored?

Hell no.

If she doesn't want to endorse, calling her names, bullying her, mocking her, and threatening her isn't going to do the trick. If she does want to endorse, she'll do it.

Leave her alone.

[stevenleser]

39. One of Hillary's best assets for keeping people from joining Sanders is... Sanders supporters

The behavior outlined in the OP will probably result in Warren endorsing Hillary earlier than she otherwise would have done.

[SidDithers]

61. +1...nt

Sid

[KitSileya]

77. That is a good point.

As I see this behavior on other sites I post, on twitter, in comment sections, it's very ugly.

[giftedgirl77]

80. Oh yeah, not to mention none of them have any recollection of

ever seeing this type of behavior b4

[lovemydog]

260. lol!

[MaggieD]

90. +1

[GoneFishin]

122. But Hillary's campaign strategists couldn't figure that out, right? What a transparent crock of

shit this smear against Bernie is.

Karl Rove has to be pretty envious right now, assuming this wasn't his idea anyway.

Always with the dirty tricks.

[iandhr]

153. Alright we get it.

Sanders supporters are a pure as snow and any criticism of their actions are part of a great conspiracy.

[Warren DeMontague]

214. No, it's been a nonstop campaign for 8 fucking months against "Sanders Supporters" here.

Why, one would almost think a certain other campaign and their supporters want to talk about anything except the actual issue positions of the candidates.

[lunamagica]

132. +1

[Orsino]

155. Ridiculous assertion.

The public that has barely heard of Sanders doesn't give a fuck about a few loudmouthed assholes on the Internet.

By far Clinton's best asset has always been her celebrity.

But don't let me get in the way of the usual DU slap-fighting.

[Buzz Clik]

86. +1. The perfect opening response.

[CoffeeCat]

106. Shameful? Seriously?

Did you see the CNN article, which featured quotes from several prominent Senators, putting the heat on Warren to endorse Hillary? http://www.cnn.com/2016/01/12/politics/elizabeth-warren-2016-endorsement/

The entire article was a pressure piece, written to put the squeeze on Warren.

Quotes from the article:
"She's waiting way too long," said one Democratic senator who asked not to be named.

Sen. Dianne Feinstein, D-California, said of Clinton. "It's hard for me to get in anybody else's mind as to why they would not."

The article touts that Debbie Stabenow met with Warren personally and asked her to endorse Clinton.

Plenty of quotes from McCaskill.

So, would you categorize pressure from several heavy hitters in the Senate released publicly on CNN--as more "shameful" or less "shameful" than a few Sanders supporter expressing their opinions on a message board?

[stonecutter357]

108. Shameful? Seriously? yes.

[CoffeeCat]

112. You lose all credibility with me

when you use hyperbole to describe something that is not that big of a deal.

But go on. Have fun.

You people are ridiculous.

[Snotcicles]

120. +1.nt

[Duval]

165. +10000

[stonecutter357]

168. I don't want credibility in General Discussion: Primaries .

[GoneFishin]

127. Convenient isn't that they pressure her to endorse Hillary, then send the troops out to alienate her

from Sanders. She is pretty smart.

I hope she can see through this Clinton/Rove cloak and dagger play.

[Lizzie Poppet]

145. Nothing remotely shameful (in general) about this.

I'm sure there are some comments that cross a line into incivility or even vulgarity. It's the internet. But pinning her down on the lack of an endorsement of the candidate whose positions basically mirror hers - and is running against one who embraces so much she purports to oppose - is perfectly legit.

[MADem]

182. So....it's "fine" that she "resisted the pressure" for one, but not the other?

The article is from a month ago--I don't see anyone continuing to beat up on her for a Clinton endorsement. The letter signing was the best they were going to get.

It's clear she sees no 'upside' to endorsing.

Look at it from HER POV:

MA is breaking 48-44 and 47-44 for Clinton as of TODAY, depending on the poll you look at. That's NOTHING--IOW, it's a dead heat.

If she endorses Clinton, she pisses off the Sandernistas. If she endorses Sanders, she pisses off the Clintonistas. Either team is about HALF her constituency in the Commonwealth.

Her smartest move is to keep her mouth shut.

Best move is to sit this out and let her constituents vote their preferences without her (essentially meaningless) "help."

It's fine to ASK--but after a point, if you don't get an answer, give it up. Trying to threaten someone into supporting a candidate just doesn't sound terribly Hope-and-Change-like to me. And saying "If you don't do this, I won't LOVE YOU ANYMORE!!!" sorta says that the love was terribly conditional in the first place.

[ScreamingMeemie]

146. It's what people do when they support a candidate. Primaries=Swarming

Please stop everyone. New levels of really, super silly. I unhid this stupid forum because my primary is tomorrow, and I can see I made a mistake.

[NorthCarolina]

161. There you have it. Hillary supporters feel real democracy is "shameful"

eom

[Warren DeMontague]

215. Yes, yes, cluck cluck shameful harumph harumph quack cluck tsk tsk

what the fuck is "shameful" about it? People expressing their opinion?

I suspect Elizabeth Warren can handle it. Last time I checked we still have the 1st Amendment in this country, despite the fact that some people freak the fuck out just because not everyone agrees with them.

[Erich Bloodaxe BSN]

2. Sounds like the country is desperate for real leadership.

Not people taking the path of waiting until it's politically 'safe' to make decisions, but actually putting oneself out there when it can make a difference.

[tk2kewl]

8. nothing wrong with applying pressure

[TheCowsCameHome]

3. Actually, it's too bad Warren isn't running.

Maybe another time.

[w4rma]

34. Hillary would have smeared the heck out of her, like she's trying to do to Sanders. (nt)

[Nonhlanhla]

83. If Warren had run, I think we would have heard a lot of people saying

they want a female president, just not this one, while mentioning her many years as a Republican and whatever other complaints they can dig up.

[w4rma]

88. That dynamic would be different. I'm still extremely impressed with Sanders' campaign.

I think that in other areas, Sanders has some advantages over Warren. So, it's probably a wash. Sanders definitely isn't a flawed candidate, in any way. Clinton's "ability" comes from her behind the scenes networking, entrenched power and Wall Street money.

[Nonhlanhla]

101. Actually, the dynamic would be very similar.

http://qz.com/624346/america-loves-women-like-hillary-clinton-as-long-as-theyre-not-asking-for-a-promotion/

A few excerpts:
Public opinion of Clinton has followed a fixed pattern throughout her career. Her public approval plummets whenever she applies for a new position. Then it soars when she gets the job. The wild difference between the way we talk about Clinton when she campaigns and the way we talk about her when she’s in office can’t be explained as ordinary political mud-slinging. Rather, the predictable swings of public opinion reveal Americans’ continued prejudice against women caught in the act of asking for power...

This issue is not specific to Clinton. As Slate writer Jamelle Bouie has pointed out on Twitter, even progressive demigod Elizabeth Warren was seen as “unlikable” when she ran for the Massachusetts senate seat. Local outlets published op-eds about how women were being “turned off” by Warren’s “know-it-all style”—a framing that’s indistinguishable from 2016 Clinton coverage. “I’m asking her to be more authentic,” a Democratic analyst for Boston radio station WBUR said of Warren. “I want her to just sound like a human being, not read the script that makes her sound like some angry, hectoring school marm.”

[Warren DeMontague]

236. The desperate attempts to make all objections to HRC's campaign about "misogyneeeee!!!" are lame.

Lame, I say.

[Nonhlanhla]

238. Nonsense

There is well documented evidence of this kind of double bind for women. The article notes that her approval ratings went from 60% to 41% after she started running, and also notes that Elizabeth Warren was subject to the same phenomenon while she was running.

No one is saying that all resistance to Clinton is misogynist. But only misogynists would deny the reality of the misogyny that she faces.

[Warren DeMontague]

213. Cool story, bro

[Nonhlanhla]

222. Don't call me "bro." nt.

[Warren DeMontague]

227. Why not? It happens to me all the time.

You'll get used to it, I swear.

[Nonhlanhla]

237. Don't be offensive.

I don't know who you are and I don't care. You should not assume that someone is male (I'm not), and you should not call them things they ask you not to call them.

[Warren DeMontague]

246. I dont take orders from people. I meant what I said. Your assertion up there is silly.

And "cool story bro" is a commonly accepted expression on ye olde intertubes.



Hence it was an apropos response to your comment, especially in light of the fact that many of us were very interested in Warren running.

If you dont want to hear what I have to say, put me on ignore.

[Nonhlanhla]

247. I don't give a damn about

commonly used expressions. You are lacking in common courtesy. Bye bye.

[Warren DeMontague]

248. okay.

Then to quote Dr. Gonzo, I guess I owe you an apology. Or nothing at all.

[tarheelsunc]

261. If she was running...

At least we wouldn't hear the stupid "Goldwater girl" meme all the time, given that Warren was a Republican herself well into adulthood.

[JaneyVee]

4. sad.

[kstewart33]

5. Those swarming Warren aren't helping Bernie's cause.

Insults aren't a smart or effective way to persuade someone to endorse your candidate.

[RiverLover]

24. Warren not endorsing Bernie isn't helping his cause. That's the problem. /nt

[Fla Dem]

81. Maybe she's not endorsing him for a reason. After all she's worked with him.

She may know some aspects of his character that aren't appealing.

[Kip Humphrey]

6. And we know these are not Hillary or RNC or Karl Rove's employees how exactly?

Whenever I see troublemakers doing troubling things during any campaign season in the modern era, I always question their veracity.

[KitSileya]

10. Well, on facebook you can click on the comments and check.

Afterall, you're supposed to use your own name, and even if they don't, I guess you can check out their friends etc to estimate how likely it is they are a troll.

Considering the experience of too many of us, from superdelegates to all us others, I think that in this case, those that quack are, indeed, ducks.

[Zorra]

21. State Department Facebook: DOS Spent $630,000 On 'Likes' For Social Media Pages, Report Indicates

There's no telling how many Quacking Parlocks the Clinton Campaign has used on the internet.

DOS Spent $630,000 On 'Likes' For Social Media Pages, Report Indicates

State Department Facebook: DOS Spent $630,000 On 'Likes' For Social Media Pages, Report Indicates

A striking finding in a recent Inspector General report revealed that the U.S. Department of State spent hundreds of thousands of dollars on Facebook "likes" in the past two years, effectively buying fans.

In order to bolster its presence on Facebook, the State Department paid about $630,000 for campaigns to increase its total number of likes, the May 2013 report indicates.

While the sheer amount of funds the State Department dropped on social media may be surprising in and of itself, the most significant aspect of the report may be the finding that these fans are, for the most part, fake.
snip---
The $630,000 Facebook campaigns were, in fact, successful, increasing the total number fans of the State Department's English-language pages from about 100,000 to 2 million since 2011, the report notes. (The State Department's main Facebook page currently has more than 279,000 likes.)

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2013/07/03/state-department-facebook-likes-spent-630000_n_3541734.html

[KoKo]

68. There you have it! Also....

And, since anyone can sign up on Facebook with an assumed name,fake birthdate and background and then cultivate "Friends" (by searching for Topics to follow and then ingratiating themself with a few comments made to appeal to some in the group)--it means there can be Super Pac's and other "Groups with Motives" combing "FB" to disrupt with a purpose.

[Historic NY]

107. In others words the bought the ads Facebook tries to sell

to increase your range of followers. My FB site is semi-commercial and they tempt you with offers, which mostly produce nothing. How much do your think is spent on NASCAR & NFL by the government? 630K is small potatoes when they are compared.

[Zorra]

194. "...these fans are, for the most part, fake."

I'm really glad Bernie doesn't have to buy fake supporters. In fact, whether as a government employee or as a private individual, I'm quite sure Bernie would never even consider buying fake supporters...

I realize that some folks think that buying fake supporters is acceptable because it is just "business as usual". But many of us believe that purchasing fake supporters is deceptive, unethical, and soooo very embarrassingly cheesy, particularly when it is done by the people who head high level government agencies.

Who knows how many fake supporters Secretary Clinton has purchased for her campaign? Clearly, she has no ethical objections to buying fake supporters, because she used our taxpayer money to purchase fake fans for the agency that she oversaw as its Chief Executive. If she did this from a high level position in government, it follows that she would certainly consider purchasing fake supporters in order to attempt to further her political ambitions to become US President.

With unlimited funds donated by wealthy corporate interests to spend, I suspect enormous numbers of fake supporters could be purchased for the sole purpose of smearing supporters of Senator Sanders for political gain.

After all, it's just "business as usual", right?

[arcane1]

203. $630,000 of TAXPAYER MONEY! Which conveniently stopped when Kerry took over the job.

If she's willing to spend taxpayer money this way, imagine how she spends donor money that was given voluntarily.

[GoneFishin]

65. Exactly. If the two most progressive people end up with black eyes it doesn't take a rocket surgeon

to wonder if these are rocks being thrown by a political rival.

[demwing]

96. "it doesn't take a rocket surgeon"

Or even a brain scientist!

[GoneFishin]

105. You got it.

[Gamecock Lefty]

9. Maybe Warren . . .

is not quite as enamored with the "gimme free stuff" campaign as the Bernie supporters think?

[autonomous]

18. Yeah hey wait, isnt this a Lefty website?

Why do I see republican talking points?

[RiverLover]

26. I ask myself that every time I come here. Hillary is RW though, so in a perverse way

it makes sense her supporters at "Democratic" Underground sound republican.

[autonomous]

28. I'm sure he just throws balls with his lefty but hates the left

fitting for this place.

[7962]

38. So everyone has to march lockstep? No, not at all.

And I'm NOT a backer of HRC either.

[autonomous]

40. There's lockstep and there's pushing the "free stuff" lies from the right

Which side do you fall on? Any rhetoric that advances your cause is fine?

[7962]

53. My reasons for backing sanders over clinton are many,

but it doesnt bother me when people toss out the "free stuff for everyone" line. He does have a list of things that he labels "free". He also says honestly what he wants to do to pay for them, unlike hrc, who insists she can get ALL the money needed from the "rich". Its not possible.
I'm just not going to get wound up over something so bland as "free stuff for everyone". If you want RW talking points, throw in "Socialist!"

[Lizzie Poppet]

150. I don't think it's demanding lockstep to call out bullshit right-wing talking points on DU.

YMMV...

[7962]

174. I guess we just differ on what a "Right wing talking point" is.

Simply saying free stuff is hardly a talking point for anyone imo.
How about simply explaining how clinton ignores a lot of what many think is needed? That would answer the "free stuff" comment.

[Lizzie Poppet]

190. I see that "the libruls just want free stuff" line from RW'ers constantly.

I definitely see it as a RW talking point.

[Fla Dem]

92. If you'd been here for more than a couple of days you'd know it is.

Last edited Mon Feb 29, 2016, 01:47 PM - Edit history (1)

This site attracts all sorts of "DEMOCRATS" with differing points of view along the left of center spectrum. If you want far left only POV's perhaps you should start your own forum. Thanks for inferring that if we are not lock step with BS's pie in the sky promises we must therefore be republicans.

[7962]

173. you are correct

But you'll get blasted for using "pie in the sky" because apparently ALL terms like that are now "RW talking points".
And I'm saying this NOT being a clinton supporter. Just tired of simple differences being labeled "extreme"

[leftynyc]

129. Since when is thinking I'm

already paying too many taxes for things like weapons a republican talking point? Nobody who has promised to raise taxes, as Bernie has, has a chance in a US election. But keep throwing everyone who doesn't think Bernie hung the fucking moon under the bus....it's working so very well so far.

[MADem]

206. +1. nt

[Lochloosa]

27. Gamecock, I will be happy to discuss anything you when you are not using

republican talking points. Until then...have a nice day.

This is NOT a "gimme free stuff" campaign. It's a "gimme an education and health care I can afford" campaign.

[CoffeeCat]

113. Yeah, you're right

Warren must be more attracted to the fact that HRC is a bought-and-paid for Wall Street darling and a neocon warmonger.

That must be it.

Free stuff. LOL! Wow, did you just finish a month-long workshop at the Glenn Beck school of ignorant right-wing talking points?

[Lizzie Poppet]

148. Free Republic is thataway --->

Which is where that bullshit, Tea Party "gimme free stuff" fuckwittery belongs...

[seaglass]

156. She supports the Democratic party, Sanders not so much.

http://blogs.wgbh.org/masspoliticsprofs/2016/2/22/warren-wont-endorse-sanders/
...
"There’s no denying the ideological fit between Warren and Sanders, but there is also a significant difference between the two. Warren understands better than Sanders the limited utility of protest politics. She also understands that if Sanders truly is capable of winning in the fall, he would also be capable of winning the nomination without her foot on the scale.

The perception, repeated by Eric Fehrnstrom in the Globe recently, that Warren owes her own 2012 election to ultra-progressive voters and her “anti-Wall Street crusade” is flatly wrong. Warren was a good candidate who definitely put her progressive message front and center, but she beat Scott Brown because she is a Democrat, not because she is a progressive. Warren understands that the realization of her agenda requires a healthy, powerful Democratic Party. She may sympathize with Bernie’s ideology and values, but she does not sympathize with Bernie’s contempt for the Democratic Party establishment. "

[MADem]

202. Warren was a Republican up to 1996. She preferred Reagan's approach to markets.

She's not all that liberal--not sure why people think she is. She is a firm defender of MA small business interests and the MIC industries in the Commonwealth. She has only recently come around to a attitude of being "open" to mj legalization issues after previously being vocally opposed. She checks all the "basic" Dem blocks re: choice and equality and stuff that forms the essential elements of the platform, but she's not way out there on the Left Wing when it comes to most issues.

I think she's tremendously smart and capable and a good, hardworking Senator, but she is not a "liberal" in the classic (post 1960s) sense of the word. She's very conventional in many ways.

[R B Garr]

11. They attribute malice to everything, which takes away their credibility

and appeal. Poor Elizabeth!

[brooklynite]

13. If it's any consolation, my wife and I will still be supporting her.

[Matt_in_STL]

14. Hillary supporters are so classy they would never stoop to this level

Oh, except for when they do (see Robert Reich as an example from just yesterday). Let's stop pretending there aren't bad actors on both sides.

[stevenleser]

42. Sure, one or two Hillary supporters getting on Reich is the same as hundreds of Sanders supporters

doing the same in similar situations.

Sure.

[autonomous]

49. The Hordes of Online Hillary Supporters (tm)

have to get over the hurdle of switching languages from Indonesian, time zone differences, let alone the inconvenience of working in sweatshop, so its no wonder they have a hard time making good on those contracts. Cut them some slack.

[stevenleser]

52. You're trying way too hard. nt

[Matt_in_STL]

56. Wow, I have never had a national political pundit respond to me before

So cool. Oh, except for the disingenuous obliviousness to the world around him. That part sucks a little.

[Buzz Clik]

89. Take a look at DU, and your comments are validated.

It's nearly impossible to post here if you are critical of Sanders.

[Le Taz Hot]

16. "Berniebros?"

Fuck this shit. <flush>

[KitSileya]

29. As I said, I used that appelation deliberately

To separate them from ordinary, more well-behaved Sanders supporters. But if you agree with their behavior, I apologize for calling you a berniebro, and thank you for letting me know your true colors.

[autonomous]

33. "letting me know your true colors."

You just did the very same thing you accused someone of.

[Lizzie Poppet]

139. Careful...you'll get "brought to heel" talking like that!

[autonomous]

164. that's what you do to superpredators

heel berniebros, heel! Hillary for president!

[jfern]

219. Screw your divide and conquer techniques.

[Autumn Colors]

17. We The People

Nothing wrong with contacting our representatives to express an opinion and make a request, esp. those who are her constituents in Massachusetts.

Absolutely nothing wrong with this.

[Cobalt Violet]

19. and of course there are Hillary fans who think nagging Bernie fans well work.

Reminds me of somewhere else.

[RiverLover]

23. They speak for me. Its incredibly disappointing that a) she didn't run & b) she won't stand up for

Bernie, who did have the courage to take on the moneyed establishment pro-war pro-business anti-people candidate.

I don't give a damn what you call them/us.

[Tarc]

30. Endorsing candidates is not a part of a politician's duties to his/her constituents

So, no, you really don't have a right to throw a hissy fit if Warren does not endorse the candidate that you like, even if she is your own Senator.

My god, suck it up and leave her alone. Holding an opinion that differs from your own is not cause to Scarlet Letter her.

[KitSileya]

35. I hope you are talking about the Sanders supporters and not me

If you search my DU history, you will see that I was one of the voices denouncing the pressure to get her to run for President after she'd said she wouldn't. It was a perfect example of rape culture, and gave me the heebie-jeebies, much like what is happening to her now does.

[autonomous]

37. "It was a perfect example of rape culture"

[font size=4]WTF???[/font]

[KitSileya]

44. A woman says no to doing something,

And people refuse to accept that no, and keep pressuring her to great kebgths to get her to say yes. It's a classic example.

[Warren DeMontague]

229. Oh FFS.

You have officially gone not just off the rails but off the rails upon which those rails sit.

[Tarc]

55. Yes them, not you :)

My reply was addressing the types quoted in your 1st post, and some of the ones commenting here, e.g. the "They speak for me. Its incredibly disappointing..." stuff.

No one should be harped on for endorsing or not endorsing a candidate. Honestly, the endorsement system itself is an anachronism, a holdover from the patronage of old smoke-filled back room deals.

[Warren DeMontague]

254. Do you agree w/their statement- trying to get Warren to run was "a perfect example of rape culture"?

Jesus, if that's the case, I'm sitting here imagining the horrific non-consensual atrocities some of us were guilty of subjecting Al Gore to, in 2008.

[MisterP]

263. oh, like how "patriarchy" seems to mean "anything a woman does" by this point?

or how transwomen are "infiltrators" that ought to stay in the Caribbean basin with their murderers?
are gay guys traitors to queerdom by sleeping with men, who are after all the main foe of LGBs? or are they saints for sparing womankind from the horrors of PIV?

[SmittynMo]

32. It's pretty damn obvious

as to who she should side with. They are almost identical in beliefs. I too am wondering what is taking her so long? Could it be that every other WOMAN in the Senate is supporting HRC? I certainly hope not.

[DCBob]

36. I suspect Warren knows Hillary is our best bet to keep the WH.

Like most informed and knowledgeable Democrats.

[Herman4747]

41. "Our best bet"??? With Hillary's 40% approval rating?

[stevenleser]

45. Yep, all of Hillary's negatives don't come close to Sanders issues in a General. nt

[Herman4747]

67. Well, look what I was able to find here:

Actually, it wasn't me, but a Mr. DirkGently:

Hillary Clinton's Released White House Records show she Lied about Opposing NAFTA
By Steven Leser (about the author) Permalink
"Hillary gives a different opinion on the same subjects every couple of weeks depending on her audience and what she thinks it will net her. As evidence of this is now coming out and is going to be presented to the American people in the starkest terms, how can one be expected to trust her to do anything that she says she is going to do? How can one really know what she believes or intends to do about anything? The only things Hillary's experience seems to be good for is perfecting how to talk out of both sides of her mouth, engaging in the politics of personal destruction and other aspects of her ruthless pursuit of power that remind one of what a Karl Rove might do. That kind of person ought not to be the Democratic nominee."

A Mr. Steve Leser was able to brilliantly and succinctly note the serious drawbacks of us nominating Hillary. Do you agree with the fellow?

[stevenleser]

171. Already addressed by my sig line. But dont worry, your only the 500th DUer to try to say

stuff like that.

[Herman4747]

185. Aw, Come on, guy, Let us know what you think!

Please do refute the arguments for us here now at DU, the arguments presented by Steve Leser:

Let me help you:

"Hillary gives a different opinion on the same subjects every couple of weeks depending on her audience and what she thinks it will net her."

This is clearly not the case because of__________(fill in the blank)

"As evidence of this is now coming out and is going to be presented to the American people in the starkest terms, how can one be expected to trust her to do anything that she says she is going to do?"

One can easily trust Hillary since________(fill in the blank)

"How can one really know what she believes or intends to do about anything?"

This chap, Steve Leser, is definitely a most cynical type, failing to see the great sincerity of Hillary since he_________(fill in the blank)

"The only things Hillary's experience seems to be good for is perfecting how to talk out of both sides of her mouth, engaging in the politics of personal destruction and other aspects of her ruthless pursuit of power that remind one of what a Karl Rove might do."

That Steve Leser guy is far, far too demanding in what he expects from a candidate's experience. Surely through her consultations with this guy on the left



Hillary's learned all about when to intervene militarily, and when to intervene militarily. She also learned_____(fill in the blank)

"That kind of person ought not to be the Democratic nominee."

A foolish, erroneous conclusion if there ever was one, because_____(fill in the blank).

A bright guy like you should have absolutely no problem refuting the arguments of Steve Leser.

Get to it, and good luck!

[stevenleser]

188. Already did. See my sig line. nt

[stevenleser]

193. Already answered in my sig line. nt

[Herman4747]

195. Okay, you forced me to have to go here:

http://www.democraticunderground.com/?com=view_post&forum=1251&pid=662117

After reading the essay of Steven Leser, I have some questions for you, based on other statements by Steven Leser:

"Hillary gives a different opinion on the same subjects every couple of weeks depending on her audience and what she thinks it will net her." Tendency to Flip-Flop for cynical self-gain

Where precisely in the article linked above is this refuted? NOWHERE, RIGHT?? And if the answer is indeed, "nowhere," then we must conclude that you are NOT addressing Steve Leser's earlier argument.

"As evidence of this is now coming out and is going to be presented to the American people in the starkest terms, how can one be expected to trust her to do anything that she says she is going to do?" Trustworthiness

Where precisely in the article linked above is this refuted? NOWHERE, RIGHT?? And if the answer is indeed, "nowhere," then we must conclude that you are NOT addressing Steve Leser's earlier argument.

"How can one really know what she believes or intends to do about anything?" Extreme Insincerity


Where precisely in the article linked above is this refuted? NOWHERE, RIGHT?? And if the answer is indeed, "nowhere," then we must conclude that you are NOT addressing Steve Leser's earlier argument

Please don't waste people's time with bogus links, okay? And do get around to refuting Steve Leser's arguments, okay?

[stevenleser]

255. Already answered in my sig line. nt

[redstateblues]

91. BSS don't see Bernie's huge GE flaws.

The last Dem that ran on raising taxes for the middle class was Walter Mondale. He won ONE state.

[Herman4747]

159. Bill Clinton Himself (your beloved candidate's husband)...

signed into law The Omnibus Budget Reconciliation Act of 1993 which did the following:

Previously the top individual tax rate of 31% applied to all income over $51,900. The Act created a new bracket of 36% for income above $115,000, and 39.6% for income above $250,000 - Wikipedia

Any tax increase that Bernie has in mind would be far more progressive than this, that is to say, it would affect far fewer people (the 1% might not have it so good).

And Bill Clinton had no problem being re-elected in 1996.

Right now, Bernie's approval rating is at 49%. Hillary's? 40 PERCENT.

Deal with it.

[DCBob]

48. That will improve dramatically once the general election campaign starts.

Matched up against Trump she will look like a saint!

[Herman4747]

162. Well, let's consider them, side-by-side:

?h=310&w=325

Truly now, is Hillary looking saintly?? Yes or no, or are you going to refuse to answer?

One of the primary means to attack The Donald is to focus on his DISHONESTY. Now how on earth can Hillary attack her good buddy, Mr. Trump, for dishonesty, when she is just as dishonest, as numerous DU posts attest to?

[R B Garr]

172. zomg, some people from New York know one another! n/t

[NanceGreggs]

258. What are the odds, huh? n/t

[Cobalt Violet]

69. hehe

[CoffeeCat]

131. The latest poll shows that 36 percent of voters trust her. INSANITY! (nt)

[Herman4747]

163. Things truly are becoming worrisome.

She could lose to Trump.

(Bernie would trounce him, and we would enjoy one of the best presidencies since FDR).

[7962]

175. Seeing how the GOP's "best bet" only gets 7% of the vote,

i guess you could say that.
Instead, they're gonna go with the ONE candidate who has HIGHER negatives than HRC!

[aaaaaa5a]

57. +1 No truer words have been spoken this primary season. NT

[krawhitham]

46. I see a lot of comments begging for "endorse Secretary Clinton"

[aaaaaa5a]

47. Warren doesn't endorse because she knows Bernie can't win.

Not even her endorsement at this point will change the trajectory of the race. She is better served politically to "keep her powder dry."


Her endorsement wouldn't even guarantee MA.

Warren will be endorsing Hillary in about 2 months when this primary fight is over.

[Svafa]

207. Therein lies the problem

"She is better served politically to 'keep her powder dry.'" At the risk of coming across as too cynical, I too think that her decision to delay endorsement might be one made of political expediency. However, I don't see this as a good or pragmatic thing; I see it as a distinct lack of integrity. I have always held Sen. Warren in a higher regard than to do something like that. If she continues to delay and/or eventually endorses Clinton, I (and many other progressives) will lose a great deal of respect for her.

[aaaaaa5a]

208. Agreed. If she likes Sanders she should come out and say so.

Not wait for political expediency to make her move. What this proves is that at the end of the day, Warren is a politician just like everyone else.

[bahrbearian]

50. Nobody in Congress want to get on the bad side of Hillary. There will be consequences.

[onenote]

66. So Keith Ellison is stupid or suicidal? I don't think so.

I don't know why Warren is keeping her powder dry. But I doubt it's because she's not as brave as Keith Ellison or Raul Grijalva or Peter Welch.

Warren has demonstrated a great deal of courage in her political career.

[bahrbearian]

70. Keith Ellison is Brave , Warren has more to loose.

I think Warren will endorse Bernie .

[demwing]

104. There will be Hill to pay!

Seriously, and Hill gets paid the big bucks by the big banks to make the big tent cover all the big donors.

[Nanjeanne]

51. Anyone can be anyone on the anonymous internet. Anyone can pretend to be

Anything they want. Even people pretending to be Bernie "Bros".

[MynameisBlarney]

54. She can and should support who ever the hell she wants.

Goddamn, people are getting so absolutely batshit over this election.

Calm the fuck down people, all this fucking hysterical bullshit ain't helping.

[Octafish]

58. Look at what the Hillarians are doing to Robert Reich.

All he did was express his thoughts in what I had heard, despite all evidence to the contrary, was still a Democracy.

[FlatBaroque]

59. I'm quite sure the Podesta brothers never imagine or engage

in any election fuckkery. The BernieBro is a creation of the Clinton Slime Factory.

[djean111]

60. That's too bad. But it does not erase the things that Hillary stands for, that I hate.

Anyway, I don't base my support on endorsements, and I figure that if Warren endorses Hillary, that would be politically expedient, and part of her job. I sure as fuck would not start supporting a Third Way PNAC hawk. And I would still vote for Warren, given the opportunity.

So - shrug.

[Adrahil]

62. UNDER THE BUS!!!!!!

Get in there, Liz!

[nolabels]

73. Na, when the time comes, people who should be under there will know who they are

Do unto others what you would like others done unto you

[NanceGreggs]

259. If Liz is under the bus ...

... NO ONE is safe!

Of course, there are so few Dems still left walking, they're all easy picken's now.

[thereismore]

63. That's a touching concern. nt

[liberalnarb]

64. If you're a public figure on social media then your putting yourself up

to be ridiculed. Hillary supporters are just as vicious towards Reich, Sarandon and others. They're all public figures. Fair game.

[riversedge]

72. It is a shameful thing to do.

[GoneFishin]

74. That's bullshit. If a nasty unconstructive sentiment toward E. Warren was genuine we would

have seen strong early indicators here at DU.

This is more Clinton psyops bullshit trying to poison Elizabeth Warren before she does endorse anyone.

[Fla Dem]

75. What nasty, nasty people. The same ones who have been telling DU'ers here

to not tell them who to vote for. The hypocrisy! I started out really liking Bernie, but his over the top, strident supporters really have me not liking him at all. They've become a snarling pack of wolves.

[stevenleser]

256. +1, yep. nt

[NurseJackie]

76. Thus, justifying her decision to not endorse...

... she's probably thinking to herself.

[Half-Century Man]

78. Yes, Yes, I know

We Bernie supporters all all terrible people.
We are misogynistic, dreamy eyed, racist, short sighted, impractical, wealth jealous, unicorn hunting, we swarm like vicious lemmings, anti-American, party disloyalists, party fragmenting, stubborn, meanies, who constantly slander better people then ourselves, and lie so much we only say "Good Morning" fifteen minutes before dinner.
Pick your vindictive.
And we are so stupid, we can't see our failings without them being pointed out 47 times a day.

We got it.



And in what way does any of the OP convert any thing Elizabeth Warren frequently says in public to indirect support of corporatism and the practitioners thereof (yes, I mean Ms. Clinton and the DNC)

[autonomous]

84. "rape culture"

according to the Op. Trash this thread.

[Buzz Clik]

85. "we are misogynistic, dreamy eyed, racist, short sighted..." But not in this case.

Just bullies.

That's the Berniebro concept -- if you don't go along, you are attacked.

It's been the pattern for months. No one is surprised anymore.

[Half-Century Man]

141. Try it from this side

I have attacked no one.
I have denounced attacks. I have offer support to those attacked (such as Ms. Bravenik and the envelope incident).
I have witnessed angry responses from both sides
I attribute the infighting between supporters of whichever nominee for Democratic candidate; as similar to the claim/counterclaim of heresy between the Catholic/Protestant sects of the christian religion.

I am not on either Facebook or Twitter; both of which I think are foolish. Using either as a source is the equivalent of asking your cat for advice. Anyone can claim to be anything for reasons short or long term on multiple accounts. It can and is used as a marketing tool, supplying both positive and negative feedback. Stop believing it. It is a lie, every time. There is always an invested interest
Actually if I asked my cat for advice, my cat would just stare at me for five minutes then demand I feed her

I am drawn into it this time by being a supporter of Bernie Sanders. Of the hundreds of people I have met over the last year supporting Bernie, I have not met a single "Berniebro". In real life, they are as elusive as leprechauns.

As an effected member, I will call out those who invoke stereotypes. As a thinking person, I will call out those using a marketing tool as a valid source. I felt the OP did both.
I urge you to do the same

[Buzz Clik]

142. You are different than most here, and you know it.

I applaud your efforts, but you are unusual.

[Half-Century Man]

191. All too often, I fear the proper descriptive word is

Weird.

[GoneFishin]

87. The memo got out to the troops. This smear meme is being spread in the Hillary Group now.

[KitSileya]

114. Actually, it was first posted in the Hillary group.

The OP didn't want to post it in GD: P because of the reaction it would garner from Sanders supporters. However, I was very struck by it, and decided to read the posts on Warren's facebook page. I wrote pretty much the same as the OP as a comment on a post about how many superdelegates have had negative experiences with Sanders supporters, and that's when I decided that this was important enough to post is as an OP in GD: P. I haven't seen it any other places, though since Warren's facebook page is accessible to all, it wouldn't surprise me if others are as shocked as I am.

[MaggieD]

94. The Bernie campaign strategy is....

If it's not working, just do more of it.

[treestar]

95. Silly, since her endorsement

convinces no one new. She was the Messiah for the same people but refused to run, when Bernie did, her followers went to him.

[Agnosticsherbet]

98. Brutally bullying her like that will push her to a point where she can not support Sanders.

She can not back down from vicious troll bully's.
Hopefully she will not have to spend too much of her time unfriending the misogynistic ass-wipes.

[Rebkeh]

99. I'm of two minds on this

You can be sure people get the same kind of pressure from within, with similar arguments on a regular basis, outside of the public eye. Because this movement in particular is powered by the people, not a pac, the pressure is public. After all, she is an elected representative (in MA anyway) and should be representing. She may not be answerable to people outside of MA but she has become our leader in a way, people want her to lead.

On the other hand, she is only formally beholden to her constituents and is not ours to control. She's under no obligation to do our bidding.

I'd love for her to endorse my candidate (Bernie) but I trust that if she does, she knows when the time is right. Light pressure is one thing, public commanding and demanding is quite another. It's a bad look.

[KitSileya]

109. I think part of it is that it is on her more personal facebook page

She has a more formal, government-approved one which I mention (and link to!) in my OP, called SenatorElizabethWarren, while this one is ElizabethWarren. Her posts here are more low key, things she's attended, personal things she's done, like baking a cake on Valentine's Day because that's what she always used to do when she was a kid for her mother. It is not apolitical, as she uses that very same post to support NIH and their heart research, but for heaven's sake....

I just feel so sorry for her, is all.

[iandhr]

100. There going to throw Bernie himself under...

... the bus. If HRC gets the nomination he will back her and his Twitter bots will lose their minds.

[Trust Buster]

102. Elizabeth Warren is an accomplished legislator.

She was instrumental in the formation of the Consumer Financial Protection Bureau. She is currently trying to accomplish lower interest rates and a fairer loan environment for college students with debt. In my opinion, she is reluctant to endorse Bernie because he's promising many things that Warren knows won't see the light of day in a Republican-controlled House. Warren is interested in investing her time on legislation that actually has a chance to become reality and not making promises she knows that she cannot deliver.

Second, this is how the far Right treats Republicans that don't march lock step with them. They call them RINO's. Sadly, we've seen the same behavior out of the far Left. Stand at attention and salute them or risk being labeled a DINO. Both the far Right and the far Left have a long history of narcissistic behavior. Historically, both have made a lot of noise just to lose in the final analysis.

[datguy_6]

103. Swarmed as she should be...

Her endorsement would put Bernie over-the-top in MA....

[ladjf]

110. And your point is?

[quickesst]

111. "ENDORSE BERNIE. WHAT ARE YOU WAITING FOR?????"

I interpret that statement as: ENDORSE BERNIE OR IT'S UNDER THE BUS WITH YOU!!!!! In those 3 comments in the OP, we have demeaning of her character, threats of not voting for her, and questioning the courage of her convictions. I'm pretty sure that kind of stuff will sway her, but not in the way Bernie supporters hope it will.

[KitSileya]

119. About 70% of the direct comments to her last post are like that.

There's push-back, of course, from people who don't want her pressured, and from Clinton supporters, as well as poor souls trying to comment on the topic of her posts. On her official facebook page, the situation's the same, but I feel that that is different. Posting your political opinion to Senator Elizabeth Warren is different than doing it to Elizabeth Warren, baking cakes in remembrance of her mother.

[quickesst]

154. Very inappropriate...

... but, wherever comments like these are posted, I still feel it will have the opposite effect of what Bernie's supporters are hoping for. I doubt they will receive a thank you for showing Senator Warren the error of her ways.

[KitSileya]

158. I agree. Even if some refuse to see reality, and think that it's a Rovian Clinton trick

The more Independents hear about these things, the more they will be repulsed by it. What difference is there between such supporters and the supporters of Trump? Very little, I think, when it comes to behavior.

[quickesst]

170. Very little difference...

... And they know the "Rovian Clinton" meme is a fantasy, along with "it's her turn" "The Anointed One", and "the coronation" they themselves have fabricated, but it plays very well to the choir.

[UglyGreed]

115. Judge not lest ye be judged

funny how that works huh...... BTW I'm not religious nut but I find these types of posts rather amusing.

[alcibiades_mystery]

116. How to Win Friends and Influence People, by the Bernie Sanders Movement

[Koinos]

133. You forgot the word "Not."

Other than that -- perfect.

[tanyev]

117. Because that's really going to convince her that she should endorse Bernie.

[Gothmog]

121. These efforts will not work

[GoneFishin]

124. More Clinton dirty tricks. I am disgusted by the dishonesty.

[jcgoldie]

123. I dont understand this

I dont understand the fascist tendency of Sanders supporters who pass judgement on anyone who doesnt share their opinions about which candidate is best for democrats. Warren should endorse whoever she wants or no-one at all. It isnt anyone's business who she supports, that is not a duty that she owes to her constituents. My guess is she won't endorse Sanders because he cannot win. Why weaken the eventual democratic nominee by coming out against her for a doomed candidate? I realize that is not a popular idea around here and its simply speculation. The 1st point stands its fascist to try to control what someone else thinks.

[GoneFishin]

125. Then you are behaving exactly as intended by Sanders rivals.

[jcgoldie]

144. behaving?

Did you even read what I wrote? Your response makes zero sense.

[Lizzie Poppet]

157. "Fascist?" Oh for fuck sake.

Urging someone to take a particular political action is "try(ing) to control what someone else thinks?" If that's so, then political yard signs, bumper stickers, pro-candidate (or anti-candidate) comments online, and so forth must be "fascist" too. 30-second paid political ads? The moral equivalent of "Triumph of the Will!"

FFS...

[jcgoldie]

166. in the sense that

Whoever doesnt share your opinions is dismissed. It doesn't matter that Elizabeth Warren is the strongest progressive voice in Washington... if she doesnt endorse the candidate we like then she's not responsive to her constituents somehow. It doesnt matter that John Lewis is a hero of the civil rights movement and a liberal champion for 50 years, he's just a tool of the establishment if he doesnt agree with us. It doesn't matter that African Americans in SC supported Clinton in record numbers because they feel the president has done a good job representing their interests and HRC is the most likely to continue those policies... they are the victims of a "master/slave" mentality and do not realize they are somehow acting out some mass stockholm syndrome effect. Political opinions can be discussed they can be disagreed upon without dismissing the actors involved. Whats fascistic is the repeated intolerance to the other side of the debate.

[Lizzie Poppet]

169. Okay, I can certainly agree with that.

I do in fact think that the majority of AA voters who support Hillary are not acting in their best interests ; it's no different, IMO, from holding the same opinion of working-class people who vote GOP. However it's not my call to make for them. Nor would I say something like that to someone (AA Democrat or working-class GOP'er alike), unless it was a friend of mine with whom frank exchanges of views would be expected and not considered presumptuous or rude (and frankly, the sort of people I select as friends tend to have no problem telling me I'm full of shit!).

I think a lot of it boils down to how political disagreement is expressed. When there is personal respect and civility, it's valuable to discuss political disagreements, if only to better understand the other person's reasoning. When you can do that, there's less temptation to attribute their disagreement to stupidity or vested interest. When it's sniping better suited to 4chan...not so much.

But politics is the most contentious of subjects (save perhaps for religion), and I'm far, far from perfect in this regard. I'm, um...kind of a bitch, frankly.

[NCTraveler]

126. I'm willing to wait patiently for her to endorse Clinton.

I know that she will lose clout if she endorses now and I want Warren to have as much clout as possible. I have no clue why all these Sanders supporters are so desperate for Warren to damage her brand. Politics seems to be new to them.

[still_one]

128. While I never thought Warren would endorse anyone before the nomination was decided, I have no

doubt this "bullying", which has been seen with other endorsements, has almost made it a certainty that she will now absolutely NOT endorse Sanders

[shawn703]

134. Now I'm a pretty ardent Sanders supporter, but I think this is ridiculous

I've thought from the beginning she wasn't going to endorse anyone until the nomination becomes clear.

1. Sanders shares a lot of goals with her, and a lot of her core supporters gravitated to Sanders when it became apparent Warren wouldn't run - she's not going to endorse Clinton early and alienate her supporters when I believe she has future presidential aspirations of her own.
2. She's also not going to endorse Sanders early because he's such a long shot for the nomination. She knows she has a much better chance of needing to work with a Clinton administration than a Sanders one. She'd want to have a lot of input into Hillary's plan for Wall Street, and the Clintons are notoriously vindictive. Endorsing Sanders is a sure way to end up in the political wildnerness - which I'm sure goes into the political calculus of quite a few legislators who are choosing to endorse Clinton.

And really, Warren's endorsement isn't going to impact the race that much. People need to leave her alone.

[jcgoldie]

147. +1

well said

[Cryptoad]

135. Its a know fact that

ur work cohorts know u better than anybody!

[PatrynXX]

137. well the Hillversion isn't much better

ho hum nothing to see here... true I don't know what she's waiting for she is against wall street but she can take her time. like obama he took his time winning the nomination. Some people assume a nomination is tied up in a month . Sorry folks it takes several months

[Nanjeanne]

138. And Robert Reich hasn't been happy with the nasty stuff he is getting from Clinton supporters. They

are all grownups.

You know I went to her FB page and read the comments. Most are perfectly respectful asking her to support Bernie. Funny thing, but there are a few less respectful and nasty comments - attached to FB pages that have no information - no pictures - no friends - no nothing. Hmmmmm. Makes me wonder WHO those people really are. Like, maybe they really aren't Bernie supporters . . . ya think?

[Koinos]

140. Warren is going to endorse the actual nominee.

She agrees with almost all of Sanders' positions. She is a close friend of Clinton.

She is not going to take sides at this point.

[alfredo]

143. There is no rule saying she has to endorse anyone.

If she is to endorse, let her do it when she is ready. I think she likes Sanders, but her endorsement is not required and won't bring in anyone new.

Endorsements have little effect. David Duke's endorsement of Trump means little because people who support Duke's politics probably support Trump. It's like preaching to the choir.

[Mike Nelson]

149. Bernie supporters might be better off...

...because Elizabeth Warren is delaying her endorsement of Hillary.

[chillfactor]

151. she has every right to endorse whom she wants...

and when she wants....the bernie supporters will turn her off to endorsing bernie...just like they have done to undecided supporters on DU..

[Orsino]

152. Warren has kept her powder extremely dry. n/t

[Robbins]

167. keep it up

keep pilling on bernie supporters.you better hope you clinton supporters are big enough with us to defeat gop in November.

[Gothmog]

176. WOW=Going after Warren is not going to work

This not going to work

[DarthDem]

177. Any Room Left Under That Bus?

This supports my thought that many online Bernie supporters are paid Rethug trolls. Not all, but a significant and/or vocal number.

[Cali_Democrat]

186. You might be on to something. nt

[DarthDem]

189. Maybe

The first thing that started me down that path was how Bernie supporters spammed every thread around here (and did the same AND filled the rec list on Kos with anti-Hillary bait) with nasty attacks on Clinton.

Then came the foolish memes spouted by a few too many at once. "Superdelegates don't count!" "Virtual tie!" "Harry Reid stole Nevada!" "Sanders won Latinos in Nevada!" "Casino theft!" "Hillary doesn't poll as well in the GE!" "Results in a red state like South Carolina don't matter!" And so on. I smell coordination.

[stevenleser]

253. They had to bring in this bus to throw all the folks underneath it

[Hiraeth]

180. Not me. For the record, I am not part of this "swarm".

[BlueCaliDem]

181. Wow. Just...wow. Well, they just gave her a reason to endorse Hillary Clinton.

Say what you will about Senator Warren, but she's not the type to allow herself to be bullied.

[Tierra_y_Libertad]

196. Good.

[snowy owl]

197. She should not endorse

Her strength would become quantifiable. She should remain an independent force in the party and she will carry much more power by staying above the politics. Choosing between the two diminishes her power of influence. Bernie understands I'm sure.

[BernieforPres2016]

199. I'm a Sanders supporter and I think this is ridiculous

I don't doubt Senator Warren's integrity or commitment to ordinary Americans and I think virtually anybody who would care about her endorsing Bernie is already going to vote for him anyway.

[KitSileya]

200. Yes, that is why I tried to separate these Sanders supporters form people like you in my OP

However, the 'other b-word' is now on the list of verboten words, apparently. I don't think that all Sanders supporters are swarming Senator Warren's facebook page, but I think that there's a group mentality among too many of them that they don't think about the lines they are crossing in their eagerness to get everyone to join them. That will only hurt them.

And that is not to say that there aren't Clinton supporters that cross the lines too, but it's apparently more common on the Sanders side, probably because so many of his supporters are political neophytes. I mean, there's been newspaper articles about harassment of other superdelegates already.

[BernieforPres2016]

201. I would not harass superdelegates but think the concept is profoundly undemocratic

[KitSileya]

205. You would have to take that up with Sanders' senior adviser, Tad Devine

who designed the system and is the foremost expert on the topic of superdelegates.

[MADem]

211. ...........

It is pretty amusing that the guy who built the system works for the guy whose supporters (some of them, anyway) are complaining about that very system!

[imagine2015]

217. Bernie might select her as his candidate for Vice-President at the convention.

This would be a really intelligent move and I think she would say yes to the proposal.

[BernieforPres2016]

220. I would rather see her as Secretary of the Treasury

Bringing the banksters to heel by breaking up the TBTF financial institutions and shutting down the revolving door between Wall Street and Treasury.

[MADem]

221. Looks like I was taken in by a faked page that said Warren endorsed Sanders.

What kind of troll would make something like that up?

Who thinks that kind of chain-jerking is a good idea?

Not me. Mean and cruel to "joke" about that kind of thing.

[Codeine]

224. She didn't endorse anyone.

Hoax story.

[MADem]

225. Yes, I edited my post above. That was a mean thing to do, to create that faked page

and post it here.

Why are people so ugly and mean? That was hurtful to BOTH candidates and their supporters, and hurtful to Senator Warren, too.

[Codeine]

226. Shitty thing to do.

The universal truth is that some people just suck.

[MADem]

232. We sure agree on that.

That fake link was equal-opportunity suckage!

[valerief]

239. Since you insist on calling Bernie supporters the false Berniebros, are you

a Hillhag? I've heard that term, too. I'm sure you're not offended, since offensive, false terms don't seem to bother you one bit.

[jfern]

242. Warren got a lot of shit from the other female Senate Demcrats

For being a bad woman for not endorsing Hillary. So whatever.

[Enrique]

251. how dare they

they should be good Democrats and just worship their leaders.

[jillan]

252. Guilty!! Hey - I get an email from her almost every day asking for money for her campaign.

[Number23]

257. But the BB's don't exist!!

At least that's what they keep telling everybody??

[lovemydog]

262. Elizabeth Warren probably made up those posts herself.

What a SELLOUT 11One!!