Do those of you who support Hillary get the anger and frustration in the country right now?

[TDale313]

I ask this acknowledging she's the favorite to get the nomination. There is a genuine feeling that the system is rigged, that it's not only not working in the best interests of the vast majority of the people- it is actively and effectively working very very hard against those interests. Do you understand where people who feel that way are coming from? That they're at their breaking point after decades of getting beaten down? Do you get that this will be *the* theme in the general as well as the primaries? Can Hillary effectively address this, and how?

[mindem]

1. Probably not,

misguided tunnel vision and a childish acceptance of fantasy are powerful motivators.

[Dem2]

34. It kind of sounds like you despise Hillary supporters

I wonder how you feel about Republicans?

[whatchamacallit]

85. Overall they suck, but I have to say

I've never been denigrated by a republican like I have been by Hillary supporters. It's been a real eye opener.

[Dem2]

90. One side is pure

and the other pure evil.

As a poster who has no preference - I like both candidates - the people stating that one side is worse than the other may want to re-evaluate that position.

[liberal_at_heart]

94. There are other websites that both Hillary supporters and Bernie supporters frequent.

Only one of them has rules against saying nasty things about the other candidate's supporters. Yes, there is a difference between Hillary supporters and Bernie supporters.

[NorthCarolina]

2. For her supporters, the system is working just fine.

As long as the turn out at the polls stays low, the establishment will get their candidate to the GE. After that, a Hillary or a GOP'er, doesn't matter to them. The establishment will win in the primaries by ensuring that they have a horse in the race from both parties. That's how American democracy works.

[liberal_at_heart]

76. Yes, most of her supporters are in the upper middle class to rich category.

I would agree. I think that for most of her supporters the system is working just fine.

[hack89]

91. Like all those wealthy AA in South Carolina? Ok. nt

[olddots]

3. when I accuse someone of not seeing

usually they accuse me of seeing too much .We have been told that empathy and sensitivity are a sign of weakness .

[PeaceNikki]

4. Yes, a lot of it is hurled in our faces pretty frequently by other "Dems", thanks for asking!

[polly7]

37. When people are hurting they speak out.

If that's 'hurling in your face' and bothers you, you probably don't care much about their concerns.

[Armstead]

66. And do you ever stop to ask why people are angry?

Just wonderin'

[LuvLoogie]

5. Surely we must!

[Tarc]

6. Perhaps you just aren't as important of a base as you think you are

Perhaps the true "base" of the party is shifting towards African-Americans, Asians, the Latino community, and other persons of color, i.e. the people that Sanders isn't winning.

[djean111]

7. Then you won't be needing our votes. Good to know. Didn't think so, actually, which is why the

rancor from Hillary supporters is so surprising - Hillary does not need Bernie's supporters, so why all the fuss? Mystifyin'!

[PonyUp]

8. But if she's not elected Bernie supporters will have hell to pay! n/t

[djean111]

9. The cognitive dissonance must be very loud and buzzing, mustn't it! n/t

[Liberal_Stalwart71]

36. That was the same sentiment expressed for HRC voters. If they don't support Sanders and he loses...

Hillary will get the nomination, we'll stomp and whine and sit out, and Trump will beat her...

And it'll be all their fault for not seeing the GOD Sanders is.

Please!

Vote for whomever you want and don't apologize or explain your vote if you don't want to.

Really, at the end of the day, it is your business.

People who threaten to sit out because their candidate didn't win, let them sit out. That's their choice.

[revbones]

78. Or it's all our fault for not see the god that Hillary is.

The false logic applies both ways

[Liberal_Stalwart71]

83. The exact point I made upthread. Agreed. In the end, we're going to have to find a way...

...to come together.

I'll say it again:

I don't think there's that much of a difference between the two major candidates. Apart from several salient issues, there's not that much there.

[artislife]

55. How could they punish Bernie supporters

that leave the party?

Nothing more than what they are going to do anyway. So the question is to quit and lose nothing or to stay and nothing to change.

With h, for progressives, it is just a big load of nothing.


I am almost at 100% sure to go Green if the Dems continue on it's merry little Third Way Policies. It isn't up to me to decide which is the worse of the worse....they are the worse.

[cwydro]

11. It amazes me how many Bernie supporters

continue to threaten not to support the Democratic nominee.

Shame on you.

[djean111]

13. We have been told, emphatically, that we are not needed, that our reasons for supporting Bernie are

bogus, and that we are just a tiny minority. Why would I feel the least bit of shame?

To me, supporting someone who advocates war and fracking and Wall Street, and the TPP and increased H-1B visas and cluster bombs, and who sent children back to Central America, to their deaths - to prove a point! - is a cause for shame. Supporting someone who is against universal health CARE and free college is a cause for shame.

I would be ashamed of myself if I supported a candidate like that.

[Liberal_Stalwart71]

40. Actually, you WEREN'T told that at all. You were telling black voters, especially what is best for

us and that we black voters should be voting for Bernie Sanders. Black voters have been ridiculed, insulted and bashed day in and day out for supposedly not voting for Bernie Sanders. Then, when Sanders lost SC, black voters were told that they are dumb and their voters should be ignored. In fact, ignore all the voters in the American South, which is the fucking dumbest thing any Democratic Party candidate could ever do because there are more Democratic voters in the south, per capita, than there are anywhere else in the country.

That is quite a shame because I and many members of my family down in Atlanta were planning for vote for Sanders, but he and his supporters have turned them off for calling the South irrelevant and basically suggesting that southern voters are not as intelligent as voters outside the American South. SHAMEFUL!

So, your vote is yours. I support you voting for Sanders, and I also support you for not voting for HRC.

It's your choice.

And guess what? I'm not going to ridicule you or call you dumb and stupid and suggest that you don't know what's in your best interests. I'm not going to do what the Sanders people did to black voters. I'm going to respect your decision.

[djean111]

45. I have done none of those things. I fully understand that is actually none of my business.

I do hope, if Hillary should win the nomination and the presidency, that you and your family are never adversely affected by any of her predilections for war and fracking and Third Way whittling away of social services, to name a few things. My family would be affected by those things, and that is why I won't vote for her. Has nothing to do with supporters. Or demographics.

[Liberal_Stalwart71]

51. We don't need to be lectured to. Black folk have been in a much worse predicament. We'll manage.

[Armstead]

71. At the risk of being accused of "whitesplainin" let me explain something

Like every supporter of every candidate, people who support Sanders believe he has the answers that will improve life for everyone.

No different than supporters of Clinton or Trump or John Kaisich.

Sanders did NOT put this primary in racial terms. His message is "in unity there is strength." That if a working coalition of the majority of average and moderate and low income people of ALL races, creeds etc. joined together to press for progressive change, that would be an effective counterpoint to the system's current rigging to the very upper brackets and powerful corporations.

He (we) are not oblivious to race and "social issues." Quite the contrary. But little matters like decent jobs and opportunity, a place to live, food, healthcare are an important ingredient of a better life -- and a step towards a climate where we can also improve and deal with structural and societal racism, sexism, etc.

But from the beginning, race was injected -- and not in a positive way. Sanders has a "problem" with minorities was the subliminal and blatant image being pressed by, er, the opposing campaign. All AAs LOVE Hillary because she has long been their champion.

So if Sanders supporters seem defensive and seemed like we were lecturing -- well 1)That's what every campaign does. It's the nature of political campaigns. and 2) We have simply been trying to get around the racially oriented distortions that have been thrown out to advance the political position of the otehr campaign.

I would also point that not all Sanders are young, white Berniebros., A lot of women, AAs, Latinos...etc. too.

[Liberal_Stalwart71]

72. Good points made all around. But why wouldn't you discuss race? I mean a major base of the

party is non-white.

Also, with all that's been going on with police brutality and the immigration issue, it would seem responsible for ANY candidate to address race and that race will matter and should be the topic of discussion, no?

I believe that people care (or should care) but that the remedies for addressing issues is different.

It's like we all support the end, right? We all want better outcomes; it's just that the means why which the ends are sought are in disagreement.

In the end, I think we're all on the same team.

But I also understand how passionate Sanders supporters are and I don't belittle that. However, the same respect was generally not afforded to people of color, here at DU or elsewhere. This isn't just a figment of the imagination, it really happened.

And so I stand firm and consistent where I always was: I can still be persuaded to support Bernie Sanders. I'm just not sure that he's electable, and I worry that his penchant for lack of compromise would actually hurt the party. If he only want to work with people who are liberal and think like him--supporting all his policy positions without regard to anyone else's differing points of view, then I'm not sure I want that person in office either---just as much as I don't want HRC there.

[Armstead]

73. I can only speak for myself but I don't think it's unusual...

I have long been familiar with Sanders, and have known that in terms of race and otehr social justice issues he has been at least as committed as Clinton, and probably moreso.

I did not envision social issues to be as divisive as they were in the primary. Not that I dismissed those issues, but I saw Clinton and Sanders as basically aligned on those issues. My focus was on their differences on overall issue of Power and Money.

So I was blindsided, and somewhat angry, when that became a divisive campaign issue. I thought (and still think) those have been ginned up by the Clinton campaign for political purposes.Also, I think that has been counterproductive, because whoever the nominee is going to have have all the allies they can muster to defeat the Real racism, sexism, etc, of the GOP in November. That's where the lines are clearly drawn.

I also prefer to think of voters in terms of individuals, not monolithic demographics. My own desire was to say "Clinton and Sanders basically agree on those. We should debate the other issues where there are differences, and let each voter decide."


So yeah, many of us have been defensive about it, and maybe got obnoxious. But that was because there was pressure to make clear that whichever candidate a voter might prefer, they deserved to at least have the full picture of Sanders, and not the cartoonish distortion.

[Jester Messiah]

56. Shame on you back.

When you kick the dog, don't be surprised when he doesn't come when you call.

[Lizzie Poppet]

81. Let me try (once again) to explain that:

I couldn't care less if a candidate has "Democrat" appended to their name. It's just branding to me. If that branding doesn't reflect my political preferences, which are markedly progressive, then I owe them zero loyalty based on party affiliation. I don't vote for Democrats based on some sort of tribal-esque social identification, but because that party's candidates tend to be the progressive option.

Hillary is simply not a progressive option at all in my estimation. For various reasons, based on multiple actions and statements of hers far too numerous to enumerate in this reply, I simply cannot vote for her and still look at myself in the mirror in the morning. I consider her a candidate that can only be labeled "liberal" because the GOP has become so ludicrously extreme and moved the popularly-perceived balance point so far to the right. But Hillary is still a center-right politician on multiple issues that matter most to me. I can't in good conscience support that.

But don't worry: my GE vote is irrelevant: my state is deeply blue and our electors aren't in play. =/

[Tarc]

14. If you choose to sit out the G.E. because your 1st choice didn't make the cut, that's your deal, bub

and in the extremely unlikely scenario where that delivers President Trump, then that'll be on your head.

For me, in the fall I will vote for the candidate who will nominate a liberal judge to the S.C., will not alienate and demonize minorities, will not gut Planned Parenthood, and so on. Either Bernie or Hillary fits that bill.

[djean111]

16. Well, bub, there's this:

the candidate who will nominate a liberal judge to the S.C., will not alienate and demonize minorities, will not gut Planned Parenthood, and so on.

IMO we cannot count on Hillary to do any of those things. I would not count on it. Bub.

[Liberal_Stalwart71]

42. Planned Parenthood endorsed Hillary Clinton. Not sure if HRC would appoint a judge

that's not for reproductive rights.

But again, it's your choice to sit out the GE. I'm not going to try and persuade you to do otherwise.

And I'm not going to disrespect you like Bernie fanatics have done to blacks and others who don't support their candidate.

[jeff47]

53. Well, Clinton has said she'd support a consitutional amendment restricting abortion

as long as it had an exception for "the health of the mother".
http://www.realclearpolitics.com/video/2015/09/29/hillary_clinton_i_could_compromise_on_abortion_if_it_included_exceptions_for_mothers_health.html

So I'm not really sure where you get the idea that she's such a supporter of reproductive rights.

[Liberal_Stalwart71]

61. Admittedly I've not followed this particular issue as much, but o.k., I get it.

ETA: But wait--I read her entire statement IN CONTEXT, and I'm not sure what the controversy is...

HILLARY CLINTON: My husband vetoed a very restrictive legislation on late-term abortions and he vetoed it at an event in the White House where we invited a lot of women who had faced this very difficult decision, that ought to be made based on their own conscience, their family, their faith, in consultation with doctors. Those stories left a searing impression on me. Women who think their pregnancy is going well and then wake up and find some really terrible problem. Women whose life is threatened if they carry their child to term, and women who are told by doctors that the child they're carrying will not survive.

Again, I am where I have been, which is that if there's a way to structure some kind of constitutional restriction that take into account the life of the mother and her health, then I'm open to that. But I have yet to see the Republicans willing to actually do that, and that would be an area, where if they included health, you could see constitutional action.

She was referring to late-term abortions. She's onboard with most Americans on this, even the staunchest of reproductive rights advocates.

Am I missing something?

[JTFrog]

69. Whenever that's brought up by Bernie supporters, the context is always missing.

They know it and continue to do it anyway.

[jeff47]

80. You're missing that the staunches of reproductive rights advocates

support zero restrictions. They say radical things like "trust women".

If you'd like to argue these restrictions are needed, you're going to have to show me all the late-term abortions in Oregon, which has no restriction against them.

[bkkyosemite]

82. What? I don't respect anyone of any color. Excuse me!

[Liberal_Stalwart71]

84. Was I talking directly to you? If my comments don't apply, let it fly.

[Tarc]

59. Well, that is your problem

Not ours.

[gcomeau]

57. Ahem.

and in the extremely unlikely scenario where that delivers President Trump, then that'll be on your head.

If you don't think some of the blame falls on the fucking morons telling people their support isn't needed and their issues don't matter to the candidate you want them to vote for then you're delusional.

[Jester Messiah]

58. +1. n/t

[senz]

74. djean's a woman, so stop calling her "bub."

[Liberal_Stalwart71]

32. But I thought ya'll declared that you weren't voting for her anyway. Don't blame us black folk for

that. We're just one segment of the Democratic Party base.

The base of the Democratic Party is: blacks, Latinos, women, LGBT, Jewish Americans, and you know...what the rest of the country actually looks like.

And the Democratic Party is ideologically diverse--it welcomes liberals, moderates, and conservatives into the party.

Perhaps another party is more suited for your needs if you cannot accept these truths??

[djean111]

41. I wasn't blaming black folks for anything.

I actually tend to not think in demographic terms - being an old white woman, I understand that I am "supposed" to be for Hillary - ridiculous! - and that makes me question all the age and race and gender and location demographics.

It is not the variety of the base that figures into my "truths" - it is Hillary's love of war and fracking and Wall Street and the Third Way and the TPP, among other things, that prevent me from supporting her. And her lying. I don't really care about demographics, and I don't know why I should. I just cannot support a candidate who is for those things.

[Liberal_Stalwart71]

43. You're exactly right. You should care about demographics. You should care only about the

candidate's record and what he/she proposes to do that will affect your life and those you care about, and the country as a whole.

Honestly apart from a few salient issues, I don't see a wholesale difference between our candidates. I really don't.

Maybe that's why I'm neutral. There's really not that great of a difference, but those issues that you listed above matter to you and make the difference. That's fine. They may not matter as much to others, and that's why they may not base their support of HRC on those issues.

[YCHDT]

12. This base also wants to keep going with what Obama started too.

[PragmaticLiberal]

23. Personally, I think the "left" is important. Heck, I consider myself one of them for the most part

But with that being said, I agree with you that the "actual base" of the party is minorities.

AAs in particularly, considering they've been the most consistent voting bloc in many respects.

Some folk are just starting to realize that.....

[polly7]

39. People of colour don't have concerns with what the OP stated, plus the profit-prison pipeline,

starvation wages, LE racial profiling, lack of health-care, movement of jobs and manufacturing out of the country, etc. etc. etc.?

What DO they believe is important then??

And why do you believe you speak for everyone in all those groups??

[Armstead]

67. That's a very myopic view

The GOP would heartily approve. They love racially divisive politics.

[bkkyosemite]

79. huh?

[Bettie]

97. So, if your chosen primary candidate wins

you'll just ask all of those who didn't support her to leave the party, as you have no use for them?

That is the message I'm seeing from many Clinton supporters these days...we don't need you, go away.

[YCHDT]

10. This anger seems to be coming from a narrow group of people though. A lot of the disregarded

... groups seem to want to keep going with what is there.

[DemocratSinceBirth]

24. A lot of us want to build on the achievements of President Obama./nt

[YCHDT]

29. I wonder if Bernie Sanders got a true feel of where the DNC was at with Obama. There seems to be

... a big miscalculation on his staffs part in regards to how much the DNC base liked Obama.

[Liberal_Stalwart71]

48. Honestly, I think that's why he's losing a lot of the base, not just black voters, but the base in

general (e.g., women, Latinos, etc.)

I can only speak as a black voter and from what I hear from other black voters, and that is this:

Many of us are prepared to support Senator Sanders and were poised to vote for him.

However, we think he's been tone deaf on the race issue in some respects. Crime, welfare, and "free stuff" are not black voter issues; it makes it seem as though only black folk commit crimes, are on welfare, and only want free stuff..and stop getting killed by cops. No! our issues mirror that of the larger society, too. We love and care about our families just as much. And our values reflect those of the larger society as well.

The bigger issue is President Obama. As much as I may be disappointed in him--even pissed off by him. As much as black voters in general may even be turned off from him on some issues, we have witnessed firsthand how horribly he's been treated. We have seen firsthand the racism directed towards him. And when it comes to public policy, we saw how Republicans (and many Democrats) obstructed him at every turn. And we saw how Democrats ran from him during the midterms, even though he had a good record for them to run on. They abandoned him.

And then when Sanders called for Obama to be primaried even after seeing how the president has been obstructed, a lot of blacks couldn't understand that. Bernie had to have seen the racism. He had to have seen how the Republicans (and many Democrats) deliberately blocked every jobs bill, every executive action, even the Gitmo situation. He had to have seen how even Democrats were blocking efforts to secure a public option. So it was baffling for many of us why the president was being blamed and targeted by Sanders. That has stayed with a good number of black voters...this treatment of the president. I guess HRC has demonstrated that despite her racist campaign in 2008, after it was all over, she stuck by this administration, and apart from a few missteps, she has been in lockstep.

From every poll that I've seen, most Democrats want to build on the Obama administration's successes. It seems like Bernie Sanders and his supporters want to tear that down in favor of something that has very little chance of getting through a Republican Congress, or even garner support from most Democrats.

It sounds like a lot of Bernie supporters don't want to be Democrats anymore because the party is not ideologically pure enough. I do understand this. I'm a liberal as well and desire true change. But I'm also a political scientist by training and have come to accept that the way government and politics operates is much more complicated than my personal views. You're dealing with a diverse group where everyone has their own opinions and not everyone is liberal. This is what I think Sanders supporters cannot accept. And because Bernie represents a state that is homogeneous ideologically, demographically and otherwise, he has never had to be in a position where he's had to compromise his liberal views. But the world of government and politics simply does not work that way. It's just not reality.

[TDale313]

47. It ain't narrow, and it crosses the political spectrum.

The Republicans are dealing with many of the same forces/issues on their side of the aisle, but their frontrunner's answer is offering scapegoating and hate and authoritarian "I can fix this for ya" bs. But ya know what? Sadly, that can play. Their turnout numbers are way up. Ours are down. We find a way to acknowledge these issues in a positive way and counter Trump or we are likely to lose.

But what we can't do is ignore or minimize or belittle the very real frustration and pain and issues that a lot of people are feeling and the fact that for too many the system ain't working.

[nadinbrzezinski]

52. Nope this anger at the system is quite wide spread

[NCTraveler]

15. I'm a part of that anger.

It is why I am supporting Clinton. I believe she is our best bet to continue moving forward building a more just society.

I'm angry at every aspect of conservatives. They have been brilliant at rigging the system against us.

[auntpurl]

17. I can't say it any better than that.

I feel the anger, and I recognise the anger in others. I think Hillary is our best bet to make a fairer, more just society.

Conservatives were the ones who brought about the policies that are crushing the working classes and the poor. Only getting another Democrat into the WH can continue the progress Obama has made (albeit as stymied as he was by the Republican Congress). I think Hillary is our best shot at the WH.

[senz]

22. Her deep ties to moneyed politics scream "rigged economy."

[SoLeftIAmRight]

64. Climate change and the sixth global mass-extinction event is happening now

and you want to plod along on the same path

[NCTraveler]

65. I don't have any interest in plodding the same path.

My interests are to continue off the success of Obama, building an even stronger coalition, and turning away from the conservative thought that festers in almost every area of our government.

[SoLeftIAmRight]

68. We must change the frames - she speaks in the republican frames

...

[Orsino]

18. Do Clinton detractors get the frustration of two centuries of dudeism?

That right there, IMO, is reason enough to get excited about the first woman with a real shot at the White House.

It's why I would be able to grit my teeth and vote for her. If we're going to put off for the umpteenth time any plans to deal with our looming crises, let's at least bust that glass ceiling.

[senz]

20. IMO, Hill is far more "dude" than Bernie could ever be.

Bernie is tender and compassionate inside: he cares about people, especially the poor and the oppressed. He has been this way his entire life.

Bernie hates war.

Hillary serves great wealth and great power.

Hillary loves war.

Hillary is way too "dude" for me.

[Orsino]

21. There is that.

You're talking nuance, though.

[senz]

26. Values and intentions vs. anatomy.

Anatomy is the least significant thing about a person.

[Dems to Win]

44. I'm dismayed that Democrats couldn't find a woman to run and win in her own right

So many people say they will vote for Hillary because they love Bill and feel good knowing he will be by her side helping her as president. Really dampens my enthusiasm for Hillary and negates any excitement that she will be the first woman president.

In addition, as a feminist, I simply cannot abide the idea of returning the Sexual Harasser in Chief to the White House, even as 'First Gentleman' (gag).

The DNC has chosen a horribly flawed candidate to put forward, asking for us to vote for her to be the first woman president.

[Orsino]

46. Yep. This is our shame.

Had we promoted and voted for more women long ago, we wouldn't be dependent on just one.

[TDale313]

49. Yep. I'm a woman. I'm a feminist. I'm supporting Bernie in the primaries.

I would love to see the first woman President. But I think right now Bernie's better on the issues.

[liberal_at_heart]

77. I am a mother of an autistic son and a daughter in college. I don't plan on putting off any plans

to deal with our looming crises. That is why I am voting for Bernie.

[senz]

19. I get the impression her supporters want to get her into the White House

regardless of what it means for the country and the people.

I get the impression it's ALL they care about.

[azurnoir]

25. they don't care and they expect Bernie's supporters to come to heel for them to boot

[auntpurl]

30. I do care, and I don't expect anyone to come to heel.

I want everyone to have a vote and a voice in this primary, at least until it is mathematically inarguable what the outcome will be. I want the Democratic electoral process to be as rich and diverse as possible. I want to make it easier for people to vote.

In the end, I want people to vote for who they want to vote for. And I want people to look at the big picture. If you honestly in your heart will have a clear conscience not voting for the Democratic candidate if it isn't your candidate, and you know what the result of that might be (a Repub in the WH) I respect that. I do hope you'll change your mind, but I respect your choice.

Hillary supporter.

[azurnoir]

33. That's so nice of you

[auntpurl]

38. Thank you.

I hope for more civil discussion and debate in GD-P as the primary progresses.

[Onlooker]

27. The system is rigged ...

... and it will continue to be rigged. Sanders has given voice to very important issues, and if he can parlay his success into some sort of a movement and lay the groundwork for young progressives to influence the country, he will have accomplished something extremely important. But, the reality is, we also have to contend with the fact that minorities are generally supporting Hillary, not Sanders. We can't dismiss their point of view, since after all, they bear the brunt of oppression. I think many people intuitively feel that Hillary is the stronger candidate. She does almost as well as Sanders despite 25 years of constant attacks against her. If Sanders should get the nomination, I think there's real worry he would not be able to fend off the attacks against him by the right, and that would be a disaster.

That said, I think most Hillary supporters are just as left as Sanders supporters, but they believe in the importance of having a woman as president, believe Hillary has a better chance of winning, and appreciate the fact that she and her husband have been much more in the middle of the fight with the right wing than Sanders has. Though the Clintons have been forced into compromises at times and they tend not to be as liberal as Sanders, they have also done a lot of good things.

[Buzz Clik]

28. Not sure that an all-in Sanders supporter has any clue what the country is feeling.

[Liberal_Stalwart71]

60. No. Too busy telling other people how to feel and who to vote for. If they stopped doing that,

and instead listen to others who may not share their points of view, then perhaps their arguments could be more persuasive.

All I see, however, is ridicule and insults hurled at those who are simply unmoved by their candidate.

[2pooped2pop]

31. they get it, they don't care

They will accept anything Hillary does because the shit that will happen if she should be elected will not be far from what would happen if a republican gets in. They think it won't effect them. It will cause death and despair to lower income Americans and what is left of middle income Americans. But some think that they might be part of the preferred class and not go down. They are mistaken, but few will see it before it happens to them.

Many are just blinded by a desire to get a woman elected. They will deny this but it is plain as day. Look elsewhere on the internet and you will see much of it, unbridled.

They call everything that Bernie supporters do, desperate. In a way they are right. We are desperate to save America and the world from another corporate loving, lying, war monger who has gone out of her way to keep the poor people down, promote war, lie, cheat, and sell favors.

They know others are suffering, but they don't care.

[LisaM]

35. Yes.

Sanders' (and Trump) supporters don't have a monopoly on anger and frustration. Maybe we're frustrated about different things, maybe we just have different notions of how to deal with it.

[hack89]

50. Yes. It is the strident pettiness by which it is frequently expressed here that pisses us off.

how about you stop yelling, pointing fingers at us and telling us what we have to do for starters?

[VulgarPoet]

54. I... Don't think they care.

They're content to peddle their warmonging and corporate ratfuckery as "progressive ideals". America needs a proper Labor party already, because the labor part of democracy has been dead since the 90's.

[Corey_Baker08]

62. Yes We Do, We Also Understand The Consequences Of Trump Being The 45th President!

[Adrahil]

63. I do. But anger doesn't really help.

We live in a political system that rewards political savvy, rather than righteous outrage.

Righteous outrageous and "no compromise" attitudes are emotionally satisfying, perhaps, but not productive.

Wanna make a change? Work at the grass roots. Too many Democrats do not participate in the system at the lowest levels.

And don't whip out the "it doesn't make a difference" argument. Too many only vote every four years and only in Presidential elections. It's killing us.

As I tell my daughter, I'm not interested in hearing "I haven't tried anything, but nothing works!"

No one.... not Obama and not Sanders can fix anything while we lose control of the statehouses and the Congress.

[Nonhlanhla]

70. Yes, most of us get it.

I also know it is dangerous because it could give us Trump if we don't stand together and channel our anger into smart politics.

[TDale313]

75. Yep, absolutely true. n/t

[whatchamacallit]

86. They think it's noise from a handful of lefty malcontents, and the party is stronger than ever

I shit you not.

[liberal_at_heart]

87. Then how do they reconcile that there are now more Independents than Democrats?

[whatchamacallit]

88. Good question, for which you're likely to get 10 different cognitive dissonant answers

I'll be switching to independent after the election and I'm never looking back.

[TDale313]

96. Or that nearly half the party does support Bernie?

He's tied or slightly behind in the national polls. Yeah, I know that's not how we vote for nominees or President- but it's a large enough segment that you can't just write them off.

[DJ13]

89. There is a genuine feeling that the system is rigged

If anyone doubted that, the "results" from the rigged caucuses in Iowa and Nevada should convince them otherwise.

[hifiguy]

92. They don't give a single happy monkey fuck

about we proletarians being righteously and justifiably pissed off. We don't exist in their world. Shut up and eat your crumbs, pigs, and give us your vote while we laugh at you.

And if you don't kiss ass, Goldman will take away the crumbs they begrudgingly let fall for the serfs to fight over.

[XenaAmazon]

95. The suffering know there's always someone in worse shape!

I love what Bernie's selling. Of course I do. But I also know what the Constitution empowers the POTUS to do and what it does not. It doesn't convey the power to take down the oligarchy. It does not give the POTUS power to break up the big banks. It doesn't give the POTUS the ability to give away "free tuition" or "free health care" or "legalized weed". These things fall under the mandate of the legislative branch. In other words, if Bernie wanted to do these things, why didn't he accomplish them while in Congress?

The POTUS has appointment power. That means putting up candidates for Congress' approval for various positions, including SCOTUS. Since Clinton's and Sanders' Congressional voting records are virtually indistinguishable, it's unlikely they'd pick vastly different candidates. Remember who gave us RBG? Hillary is far more liberal than Bill.

The other area is in foreign policy and diplomacy, where Clinton is both experienced and respected. This was the deciding factor for me. And please don't bring up her vote for the Iraq invasion. Before Bush II, Bernie voted for military INTERVENTION nearly every damned time. You should check Bernie's relationship with the MIC going back a decade and more. You'll need to find that for yourself since I won't post anti-Democrat links. There has been far too much of that going around.

The following is the most important thing, though: If the extremists carry through on their threat to sabotage the election in the event their hero doesn't win the primary, say hello to Pres. Trump. Even worse: get comfortable with a SCOTUS legacy we'll be stuck with long after Trump is dead and gone. Bedrock civil rights decisions are currently hanging at 4/4 after Scalia's death. The next POTUS will likely choose 2 SCOTUS justices. Voting rights, LGBT rights, criminal justice, children's rights, immigrant's rights, work place safety, women's rights, economic inequality are just some of the areas that will be drastically impacted if SCOTUS veers hard to the right.

Their threats are reminiscent of a little kid who thinks he can lash out at his parents by doing something self-destructive. This is why we protect kids from their bad choices. It's mind-boggling that so many Bernie supporters never learned the lesson that doing something self-defeating is ALWAYS a bad idea. Even if you manage to hurt those around you in an effort to stick it to them, it's gonna end up hurting you AND you're stuck with the consequences long after your angst wears off.

I don't buy that voting third party or writing in the loser's name or sitting it out is a "moral" decision. Tell that to the politically vulnerable CRUSHED by President Cruz or Trump. I'm a lesbian. Cruz and Trump have promised to use executive orders to reverse all gay rights advances. Trump is basking in his endorsement by the KKK. Trump supporters boast publicly about hanging "ni**gers" from the trees. If you can live how the politically unpopular are treated by Cruz and/or Trump, you go right ahead and help them take the WH. You'll get your revolution, all right. Just not the one you expect!

So, the brutal truth is... people who either help this happen or allow this to happen don't give a crap about the poor or politically vulnerable. They are doing this out of SPITE. How dare they assume that Clinton supporters aren't poor, or suffering, haven't been beaten down. Or that we're supporting her "just because she's a woman"!

The thing about self pity is it leads to you believe your pain is the only thing that counts. The inspiring thing about the suffering is that they acknowledge there is always someone in worse shape. The inspiring thing about the truly poor is that they share what little they have.

One more thing. Real revolution comes from the bottom up, never from the top down. Anyone who thinks "revolution" comes through voting doesn't get what a revolution is.

Finally, the real liberals, the adults in the room, are promising to put the country above politics. In other words, if my personal pick doesn't get the party nomination, I'll proudly and with no hesitation support Bernie in November. There are dark clouds on the horizon. EITHER Democrat is immeasurably better than the alternative. The last guy who championed "it's my way or the highway" was George W Bush. And we all know how that turned out.

[PaulaFarrell]

98. so obamacare is nothing to do with Obama?

Okey smokey