On negativity toward Hillary

[revbones]

The points made about Hillary may be negative, but that doesn't diminish the truth in them.

The problem is really that for once, there is a candidate in the race that is honest and not beholden to corporate money - so the Hillary supporters don't really have any ammo as far as being able to point things out as they can be pointed out with Hillary.

That just leaves deflection. Attack the messenger because surely they must be a right-winger to disparage Hillary. Parse the words out in true Bill Clinton style of "That depends on what the definition of 'is' is..." or just ignore and feel safe in the bubble.

[bravenak]

1. Yeah. Okay.

[PeaceNikki]

2. So good to see you here again!!

[bravenak]

5. Hey!!

[revbones]

4. Awesomely thoughtful response.

Glad you stopped by. You commentary is always so valuable...

[bravenak]

6. You are very welcome.

[rhett o rick]

13. One can't be to thoughful in their post when they are in a rush to get the number one response slot

within a minute. I think it's a tactic coming from the HRC DU Think Tank. For some reason the number one response slot is cherished and it's not easy to do.

[bravenak]

16. Nice post Rhett.

[rhett o rick]

19. Kudos to you for the fortitude to hit refresh every 15 sec to be sure to get the first response in.

“Here's the truth: the Clinton legacy has left our prisons bursting at the seams. Real lives have been destroyed as a result. It is an indisputable fact that millions of Black people were locked up for drug crimes and provided the bodies for the expansion of the prison industry." BLM

The Prision For Profits industry loves H. Clinton.

[bravenak]

21. What an imagination...

[rhett o rick]

24. I have a friend that keeps me up to date with regard to the Think Tank and the

tactics. Sad but telling.

[bravenak]

26. Um? Oh! A friend, yes, yes, I see.

Your friend tells you things to help you stay aware of these exciting intricate think tank tactics. Very interesting. Do you find the things he tells you useful?

[rhett o rick]

98. Useful? LOL, no but very amusing. Amusing to a point. When one realizes that people actually

die from lack of health care and lack of decent food, then it isn't amusing any more. I find it immoral that some side with the Oligarchy and turn their backs on the poor. The Clinton Aristocracy is all about wealth and power. Who would worship before them?

[bravenak]

101. I am an atheist.

This worship talk is confusing.

[truedelphi]

102. How so? Surely you understand that many people worship

the status quo, their being comfortable by not having to think much etc.

Not every entity that is worshipped is biblical.

[bravenak]

103. Worshiping is a strange thing to me. Abstract in a way.

[rhett o rick]

111. Worship isn't confined to religion. The definition is: " The reverent love and devotion accorded a

a deity or an idol." Some worship Wealth and some worship strong, tough authoritarian leaders.

[bravenak]

113. I have none of those feelings

[truedelphi]

120. Very well stated, rhett o rick. Though some here will

Never perceive yr meaning.

[zappaman]

45. LOL!!!!!

[Kittycat]

23. This string should have been a tip jar.

[rhett o rick]

25. Shame on us for helping the thread hijack. nm

[zappaman]

46. Totally unbecoming for a host, wouldn't you agree, Rhett?

[bravenak]

58. +1

[rhett o rick]

95. LOL. Good to see you again Zappo. What has it been but 12 hours since you last

tried this? One might think you are stalking me, but I know better. You are merely looking for someone to discuss issues with.

Have a good evening

[zappaman]

108. Awwww Rhett.

Perhaps your time would be better spent actually canvassing or even phone banking for your candidate.
But if you think constantly mewing the words "oligarchy", "authoritarian", and "fascism" will help Sanders win the nomination, then please proceed Governor!

[rhett o rick]

110. Currently we are handing out flyers at super markets, phone banking, and freeway over pass

signing. I am the local Democratic Precinct Committee Officer and have been rounding up participants for our caucus. I haven't been door-belling yet but will soon. I also volunteer at the local foodbank and Habitat for Humanity.

It's a bit naive to not recognize that Big Money controls our government. Kinda like an Oligarchy. In fact a Princeton study indicated that Big Money has more influence on our government than The People. They concluded that we do in fact live in an oligarchy. I am working to change that. Make our government more responsible to The People. I know that bothers you. Some seem very comfortable with have strong authoritarian Big Daddies or Big Mommies taking care of them. Actual Freedom and Liberty is just too hard, right?

[JudyM]

129. Where are you located? We just finished VA and are getting our wind back to spread the love.

[revbones]

33. Meh, if it floats their boat, it's just another form of deflection though and proves the point.

If they haven't got anything to say, just keep your opponent from saying it.

Too bad they can't refute any of the negativity though.

[rhett o rick]

97. Anything to avoid actually having a discussion about issues. Issues like poverty, where their god

Goldman-Sachs wants more and more profits at the expense of those in poverty. They really don't want to talk about that. The fact that the Clinton Aristocracy brings a legacy of poverty, mass incarceration, and wars for profits.

They don't want to discuss the class war so I have to guess that they side with the wealthy because they think God ordained it. God decided that the wealthy should get wealthier and the poor can just die. Death of the poor is collateral damage for the wealthy to get wealthier.

[bvf]

94. +1. n/t

[revbones]

30. Yeah, life is hard when you support a corrupt candidate running against an honest person

Must suck.

[rhett o rick]

32. I don't think it matters. Obviously honesty isn't as important as being "tough". nm

[stupidicus]

48. some of them can't help but validate what you post

eom

[Lizzie Poppet]

57. Actually, by the standards of Hillary supporters the last few days...

...that was some Nobel-Prize-worthy stuff, that was.

[revbones]

62. Nice.

[bvf]

65. Amazing how two, one-word strings

can telegraph an entire mindset, no?

[revbones]

67. *snicker*

[longship]

37. Oh god! Welcome back bravenak!

It is good to see you!

[bravenak]

38. Thank you!!

This whole thing was ridiculous.

[longship]

42. I agree.

My best to you!



(N.B., I am a Bernie supporter, but will support the nominee in November. And yes, the alert stalking and personal attacks have to end.)

But I am very happy that you are back.

[bravenak]

43. I'm glad to hear that

I think most of us are just tired of it. I just want to keep at least the white house and get a better supreme court. Just win!!

[longship]

47. Yeppers, my good friend.

[Darwin Diplomacy]

106. Bernie is the only answer, my friend.

If you want to keep the White House and have a sane Supreme Court, you need Bernie, not Clinton.

I leave you alone since you've very sensitive about your choice, since Clinton will guarantee a Trump victory.

[bravenak]

107. Hello new poster

[MADem]

122. Hey hey!

[bravenak]

123. Heeeeey!!!

[Jester Messiah]

126. Look who's back... back again. Bravenak's back... tell a friend.

That was a quick timeout. Did you get it overturned somehow?

[XRubicon]

3. Who authorized overtime???

[BernieforPres2016]

36. Apparently Hillary's campaign if you're still here

Better be careful, I think she stiffed some campaign workers in 2008.

[merrily]

7. Posting stories that do not flatter Hillary is one poster's reality and another's "negativity,"

She's running for President and this is a political message board in a primary.

If all we're supposed to post is "hooray for Hillary," when people are posting stories about Bernie enabling pedophiles, I'd like to be banned "right fucking now."

Do what you think is right and don't get caught up in who approves or disapproves. That way lies disappointment, if not disaster. No one gets 100% approval, even deities and alleged deities.

[moneymoore]

78. HILLARY

CLINTON CLINTON IS THE BEST GET THAT WELL

[merrily]

85. um....

[NutmegYankee]

109. AOL called from the 1990s

It wants the ALL CAPS button back.

[MisterP]

8. yeah, last time her opponent was well-known as Rahm's icebreaker and in the pocket

of the bankers and Exelon and Rizzo: most of DU rejected such criticism as Clinton smears, but then he dismantled his own movement, set up the Veal Pen, and spent his effort on passing GOP bills

now we got The Force Awakens running: we expected disappointment, we expected to criticize rather than give our souls and firstborns up to George Lucas, we knew the fans would have to do the heavy lifting--and it stood up to the test of time

[randome]

9. Yes, he's honest and strong and beautiful. Did you even know who he was 8 months ago?

Most DUers didn't, I'll wager. Funny how someone we just met a while ago should be our best friend and savior, isn't it?
[hr][font color="blue"][center]"If you're bored then you're boring." -Harvey Danger[/center][/font][hr]

[auntpurl]

15. Legit lol

[Kittycat]

28. Yes, but I believed in the message before

He ever campaigned on it, because most of it is what many democrats here spoke about and pushed for years. Is that surprising?

[TDale313]

34. I did. Mostly from Brunch with Bernie on Thom Hartman.

But I'll cop to being more of a political junkie than most.

[Phlem]

61. yep. Same here.

You ever listen to Norman Goldman?

he's got some interesting points of view.

Rock on brother junkie.

[Ned_Devine]

66. Same here. Rolling Stone did an article on him back when he was still a Congressman

I mean, I had heard of him before that article, but it really opened my eyes. Must have been '04.

[Phlem]

71. Good Stuff.

I had my eye on Bernie when the Hillary supporters were pummeling Elizabeth Warren.

Seems like yesterday.

[Dem2]

10. Feel justified now?

[revbones]

11. Not really sure what that means or who it was toward. n/t

[merrily]

51. Do you ever post substance? Ever?

[Dem2]

76. Harass me all you like

My post makes a lot of sense. Less words the better sometimes.

[merrily]

90. (1) I didn't say your post was incoherent. (2) you have a weird idea of "harassment."

You should really try posting on issues sometimes, instead of posting about posters. You never know--You might even enjoy it.

http://www.brainyquote.com/quotes/quotes/e/eleanorroo385439.html

[artislife]

12. I am surprised by these last 24 hours

and the disregard all of her supporters have on Bill's actions.

I wouldn't shed a tear if any awful ever befell that family.


Not one.

[LiberalArkie]

14. Results

On Wed Mar 2, 2016, 06:05 PM an alert was sent on the following post:

I am surprised by these last 24 hours
http://www.democraticunderground.com/?com=view_post&forum=1251&pid=1398299

REASON FOR ALERT

This post is disruptive, hurtful, rude, insensitive, over-the-top, or otherwise inappropriate.

ALERTER'S COMMENTS

this post practically hopes for the Clinton family to experience personal tragedy. That's beyond politics, beyond policy, and is just plain old toxic hatred of the nastiest kind.

You served on a randomly-selected Jury of DU members which reviewed this post. The review was completed at Wed Mar 2, 2016, 06:12 PM, and the Jury voted 3-4 to LEAVE IT.

Juror #1 voted to LEAVE IT ALONE
Explanation: "something awful" could mean one of many things. Losing an election? That's something awful. Bill cited for breaking election law? That's something awful. Hillary indicted soon? That's something awful ---- for her. Not so much for the electorate.
Juror #2 voted to HIDE IT
Explanation: No explanation given
Juror #3 voted to LEAVE IT ALONE
Explanation: No explanation given
Juror #4 voted to HIDE IT
Explanation: Agreed.
Juror #5 voted to LEAVE IT ALONE
Explanation: No explanation given
Juror #6 voted to LEAVE IT ALONE
Explanation: No explanation given
Juror #7 voted to HIDE IT
Explanation: this post practically hopes for the Clinton family to experience personal tragedy. That's beyond politics, beyond policy, and is just plain old toxic hatred of the nastiest kind. Callous and in extremely poor taste. Am making a mental note these words were uttered by DUer artislife. HIDE this mofo post.

Thank you very much for participating in our Jury system, and we hope you will be able to pa

[revbones]

20. Ugh. Some people.

Sheesh. It's like a Hillary supporter just faints at first sight of anything that doesn't show her in the best light possible. A lot of people wouldn't shed a tear. Doesn't make that some bad comment that should be removed.

[artislife]

27. What are you gonna do?

The fact that I have not read one word of shock or even acknowledgment that Bill has basically interfered with a polling station from her supporters just tells me everything I need to know. And yea, not one tear.

[LibDemAlways]

50. Anyone who posts on a political message board in an

election year had better not be thin skinned. Those whose feelings are easily hurt should stay away.

[bvf]

74. A lot of people wouldn't have lasted two hours

when Usenet was the only game in town.

[artislife]

92. Sorry if I am not okay with electioneering from Democrats.

Or shall I say, so called Democrats.

[LibDemAlways]

99. I'm on your side, artislife. I was not

responding to you. My post meant that I find Hillary supporters very willing to dish it out, but they sure as hell don't like to take it.

[artislife]

100. Sor Lib, this latest incident

has blown a fuse. I am bewildered by this country. Just bewildered.

[redstateblues]

54. Wow. Such darkness.

I'm astonished by the negativity and anger of so many on this site

[Ned_Devine]

68. Negativity creates negativity, and the HRC campaign and her supporters just exude such bad energy...

...that it shouldn't be surprising

[artislife]

91. You? Ha! I have read your posts. nt

[Eko]

17. When there is truth in them

they are indeed negative, and there are plenty to be found without making stuff up.

[kstewart33]

18. Rev, wait a minute.

You and I have had conversations about why we each support our candidate, and neither of us have resorted to deflection or attacking the messenger or parsing. We just have an honest and I would say honorable difference of opinion.

So please don't go lobbing verbal bombs at people who disagree with you. It's clear that you've thoroughly thought out why you oppose Hillary and support Bernie; you've give it more thought and consideration than I think most people do. But there are many of us who support Hillary who have done the same thing, just as you have.

I respect your difference. How about you respect mine?

[revbones]

22. How is what I posted a "verbal bomb"?

Hillary supporters on this board tend to deflect rather than provide any substantiation when repudiating a negative fact about her. That can be seen in any number of threads.

[monicaangela]

31. Well said revbones

[chervilant]

59. So, since you support Hi11ary,

would you mind sharing WHY? I really, honestly want to know.

[kstewart33]

115. Chervilant, I've posted 2 long threads explaining my support.

Basically: 1) Bernie's platform will never pass Congress due to simple math; 2) the Republicans, drawing from his biography and applying their usual smear tactics, will destroy him in the general election which will cost us victories in many down ballot races, essentially setting the liberal cause back many years; and 3) Bernie lacks the skills and experience to be an effective president. He's a wonderful advocate but sorely lacking in other qualities needed especially in foreign affairs and leadership in Congress.

[chervilant]

125. hmm...

Well, let's see:

1) I sincerely doubt Hi11ary's "platform" will pass the obstructionists, whatever the "math;"

2) the Republicans will have significantly more dirt against Hi11ary, applying their usual smear tactics, and her sycophant in the DNC has already cost the Democrats a significant number of seats across the nation;

and

3) Bernie has been in government far longer than Hi11ary, he did NOT vote for the invasion of Iraq, plus he accurately predicted the morass that has resulted from our MIC's corrupt incursions into the Middle East.

I know that I cannot sway your support of Hi11ary. However, I can find the "reasons" you listed herein above less than compelling.

[emulatorloo]

29. Rev I do not know why you are posting all these baiting threads today

Seem like every other thread is on the latest page is one of yours doing the same thing.

This kind of baiting is not the way to win over undecides or soft HRC supporters who still could be persuaded to switch to Bernie.

That being said, You may get some pats on the back here from some of our fellow Bernie supporters. Maybe that is what you are looking for.

JMHO, you should do whatever you want.

[revbones]

35. So don't read them. :)

I got tired of the ones from Hillary supporters, or the ones in denial, or the ones about how Sanders should quit because they can't do math, etc...

And if I do get some pats on the back, well given that some bought into the Hillary fan nonsense negativity about super Tuesday, well then rallying some of the troops ain't a bad place to be in.

Regardless though, if you find asking if someone is put off by something that is true as baiting, then you're obviously free to do so. My understanding is that this is a discussion board, and I wanted to discuss the fact that Hillary supporters have the innate ability to ignore the truth as far as her corruption and lies go.

[emulatorloo]

39. Do whatever you think best helps Bernie win the nomination

Maybe playing gotcha games with a hundred anonymous posters on DU will make a big impact.

Take care and have a great night.

[revbones]

72. Did I mention that as a goal?

Regardless it's cathartic to watch Hillary supporters deflect so much. They're like Teflon to truth.

[Phlem]

70. I was told to get behind her or get out of the way today.

Good times.

[revbones]

73. Were they just suggesting a swift kick while you were back there?

Or actually expecting you to follow a corrupt politician?

[Phlem]

77. Yes!

It was truly a WTF moment.

[SidDithers]

40. Wut...

Sid

[zappaman]

41. Welcome to DU!

Lots of posts from you first month here.
Do you have a candidate you support?
Hard to tell since almost every one of your posts is anti-Clinton...

[revbones]

44. Oh well.

I've lurked for years actually. Just read the home page mainly but for some reason got a little more involved by reading deeper early this year and finally officially joined.

As far as anti-Clinton, well I'm really more anti-corruption but I also dislike lying as well. It just happens that Clinton meets both of those. Sorry if that overshadows my pro-Bernie-ness.

[stupidicus]

49. well, politics isn't the only way 3rdwayer supporters are more like their rightwing cousins

than we old lefties -- they are very weak "debaters"

[silvershadow]

52. She has more baggage than the claims area at ATL. Some of the still-open issues could be

resolved by the candidate herself. Just one example: Where are the transcripts?

[billhicks76]

53. SCARIEST STAT...DONT IGNORE...REPOST

Super Tuesday Voter Turnout Numbers By Party :
2008 : Republicans 5,025,685 Democrats : 8,228,763
2016 : Republicans 8,307,884 Democrats : 5,557,243

[retrowire]

60. This will likely be our doom

and I guarantee you, Hillary will not generate the turnout necessary to beat this.

[revbones]

69. I think she'll depress it further actually

Whatever you may think about people not supporting the eventual nominee, and whether you think it would be a lot or a little, it's not going to help us if she is the nominee.

[billhicks76]

104. The Dishonest Never Inspire

[billhicks76]

105. Real Delegate Count

https://www.facebook.com/hoosiersforberniesanders/photos/a.710180535792841.1073741829.660768434067385/794335824043978/?type=3&theater

[Doctor_J]

118. And a lot of those 5,557,243 are Sanders supporters, whom the party has rejected soundly

and may not want any part of Mrs. Clinton in November. this could be bad.

[MADem]

124. Why is that a "scary" stat? I know people who actually do not care who our nominee is.

They like both equally, and they don't care who gets the nod. They've skipped the primary, they'll show up for the general.

On DU, it's shit-flinging all day, but out in the real world....not so much!

[billhicks76]

127. Do You Not Get It Or Are You Just Covering You Ears And Eyes

Your analysis is beyond flawed...its a joke. People care more than ever who their nominee is. And Im not even referring to Hillary's very low likability rating. The fact is primary turnout is directly related to general election turnout. Stating that it isnt is either ridiculous or disingenuous. Wait...are your lemmings going to flag this comment to? Ive noticed that anything critical of Hillary gets flagged and Ive been trolled many times. Sure most of the time it doesn't get hidden but eventually you get a jury of mostly Clintonites and they flag not based on violating guidelines but more a pure numbers game where they all get in lockstep regardless of whats right. And if you don't think there will be repercussions later down the line then you are dreaming. Still waiting for the "kindness".

[MADem]

128. Griping at me that I'm not experiencing what I am experiencing doesn't cut it.

Look--this is not an "analysis." It's something called The Real World.

I KNOW people who do not give a shit who wins the primary. Many of them I drive to the polls. I had a few of my "regulars" decline a ride because they didn't care which candidate won and made other plans--that they will vote for the Dem in November.

So, you can crab about likability, you can crab about turnout, all I'm telling you is that I personally have interacted with people who will willingly vote for either candidate, some to the point they didn't bother to vote in the primary.

Sorry if that troubles you, but it is what it is.

[billhicks76]

130. You Are Correct Many Don't

And obviously Trump is worse if he is even being real...for all we know he is faking this whole thing. But statistically speaking general election turnout does matter in relation to primary turnout. Even the pundits in the tank for Hillary or acknowledging this fact. I dont discount your story but its anecdotal. I myself know hundreds who refuse to vote for Hillary because they see her as an extension of the Bush Family and its doctrine.

[MADem]

131. Of course it's anecdotal-I said from the get - go this was my individual experience.

Real life, as opposed to online. Thing is, though, it's been replicated often enough that I wouldn't be surprised if there's a trend line there.

[PatrynXX]

55. really isn't negativity

since the beginning I'd hoped hillary would prove me wrong instead she's not only made me right shes amplified it I knew I wasn't gonna vote for her but shes done it so good I'm imploring others not to

[zentrum]

56. They seem to just not care

….about her War vote. Her 30M from Wall Street. The hay the RW will make over the emails. Her record on programs that truly hurt AA's. Her advocacy while SOS for opening Mexican waters to big oil, and for the TPP, just as she advocated for NAFTA. They just don't seem to give a damn about any of it.

If my candidate was so absolutely compromised, I'd be as ashamed and embarrassed as hell.

[bvf]

63. If it's truthful, it's not negative.

Clinton supporters can't accept this. More accurately, they refuse to, since so frequently their only recourse is to conflate truth and negativity.

[revbones]

64. truth = right-wing smear n/t

[Agony]

75. Good Post!

It is sad to see how deeply corruption has penetrated my Democratic Party…

… and the Clintons are a giant factor in this

[Chichiri]

79. Does "makes me want to puke" fall under dishonesty or corporate interests? nt

[revbones]

81. Depends. I'm guessing it's because you listened to Hillary's speech.

So, it really depends on which part you heard and how much you suffered through.

[Chichiri]

82. I was referring to this guy.

http://www.democraticunderground.com/?com=view_post&forum=1251&pid=1399315

[revbones]

86. Kind of hard to know that without some sort of linkage or something.

That said, I understand his pain.

[Chichiri]

88. The link is in the post. nt

[DCBob]

80. So how do you people walk back all this crap back once she becomes our nominee??

Turn swords into plowshares?

[revbones]

84. If she becomes the nominee, it ain't happening for a lot of people.

Some people have principles and can't consider that for her.

Some are ok with compromising them a bit. For many, Hillary is just too much of a compromise.



"Why it is or would be hard for many of us to just suck it up": http://www.democraticunderground.com/12511394792

[DCBob]

89. Amazing some people consider their personal principles more important than future of the country.

I dont get it.

[revbones]

93. Is that sarcasm? Hard to understand if it's not

Voting for a corrupt politician or another corrupt politician? Kind of a damned if I do, damned if I don't situation you've got there.

It's not definite that Trump is running if that's what you're scared of. And the country survived Bush. Maybe Bush wasn't rock bottom and Trump would be, who knows.

I do know that many would have a hard time accepting Hillary as the nominee and how many of those won't be able to bring themselves to pull that lever? We'll see.

[DCBob]

96. Not at all.

You people exaggerate her negatives outrageously. She is not 1% of what you people claim.

It reminds me of the Republicans trashing President Obama.

[Doctor_J]

119. You mean walk back the fact that she likes capital punishment?

What's to walk back?

ETA: And if we NEED to walk anything back, we can just get help from Cha and Steven Leser. they're experts.

[laruemtt]

87. Calling a criminal out

on her crimes is not negativity. It's called truth.

[Waiting For Everyman]

112. Trump will throw the same truth at her only worse.

And deflection won't do much about that either. She will be road-kill.

[Cats Against Frist]

114. Or claim that...

you must be a right-winger to BE Hillary. All week, Bernie supporters are trying to tell me that Hillary Clinton is a right-winger.

You might be "fringy" if...

[MisterP]

121. her strategy is to have too many scandals for people to be able to memorize in conversation

[Betty Karlson]

116. K&R for exposure. And for truth. eom

[Doctor_J]

117. It's like we're not supposed to compare their viewpoints, item by item

Fact: Sanders want UHC without insurance companies in the middle; Hillary does not
Fact: Hillary believes in capital punishment; Bernie does not
Fact: Hillary participated in getting the US involved in Libya, Syria, and Honduras; Bernie did not
Fact: Hillary thinks torture is acceptable; Bernie does not

It's a long list