2016 Postmortem
Related: About this forumDoes It Feel Like, To YOU... That Super Tuesday Ended It For Bernie Sanders ???
Last edited Wed Mar 2, 2016, 10:30 PM - Edit history (1)
NOT ME.
Courage !!!
HooptieWagon
(17,064 posts)KansDem
(28,498 posts)Rosa Luxemburg
(28,627 posts)this is the beginning. We also have the privilege of watching the Trump and Clinton train wrecks.
revbones
(3,660 posts)thereismore
(13,326 posts)That is all. Please proceed!
Chichiri
(4,667 posts)hack89
(39,181 posts)but yours takes the cake.
roguevalley
(40,656 posts)races and has 46 for the month of February. That's just the start. He doesn't look the least crestfallen so we shouldn't either. Besides, HRC's IT guy just got immunity. That landmine is going to explode soon.
hack89
(39,181 posts)Bernie needs big victories in big states - he is not going to get them.
roguevalley
(40,656 posts)on. the country will explode
hack89
(39,181 posts)interested in what you are thinking.
Liberal Jesus Freak
(1,476 posts)I'm still feeling the Bern
djean111
(14,255 posts)I understand that we are SUPPOSED to feel that way, that we are being TOLD to feel that way - but maybe, when we say "people look stuff up", some assumed that just because we see something on the internet, we believe it, and they have been using the internet as the new campaign blather, as the new TV ad, as the new shiny mailer.
No, we still look stuff up. That, I think, is a distinction that is lost on some.
PonyUp
(1,680 posts)arcane1
(38,613 posts)HereSince1628
(36,063 posts)Hoping the proportional distributions keep him competitive.
Lorien
(31,935 posts)a Bernie for Florida office just opened up the road from me and I've already gotten a call from them. Bernie still has many more blue and swing States to win!
I get to see Bernie tomorrow in Lawrence Kansas. Go Bernie.
zappaman
(20,627 posts)Kittycat
(10,493 posts)All this talk is ending things nonsense. I can't wait to see my CA friends put up their "I Voted Bernie" posts.
leveymg
(36,418 posts)The GOP showed up in record numbers. Meanwhile, in the 4:states Bernie picked up Democrats turned out in healthy numbers. This foreshadows bad things for the General if Hillary is the Democratic candidate.
That's the true takeaway from Super Tuesday.
TexasTowelie
(128,150 posts)Vermont - home state of one of the candidates, perhaps the higher turnout is related to favorite son status.
Oklahoma - 417,000 voted in 2008 versus 313,000 voted in 2016. In 2008 the Oklahoma primary was held in early February rather than in March.
Minnesota - in this case we are comparing the number of people that showed up for the caucus rather than for a primary. The caucus in 2008 had 214,000 voters while the caucus in 2016 had 191,000 voters. Again, thee caucus was conducted in early February in 2008, rather than March.
Colorado - caucus state. Very small difference in voters between 2008 and 2016 with the earlier one slightly less than 121,000 while the latter is at about 121,500. The 2008 caucus was in early February compared to March for this year. The turnout could have been affected by an event such as the weather.
Congratulations to Senator Sanders for winning those states, but there doesn't appear to be anything extraordinary regarding the turnout in those states.
senz
(11,945 posts)I like about you and that's the cat in your sig line.
TexasTowelie
(128,150 posts)I would have hoped that you would give me credit for congratulating Senator Sanders for his victories. As far as my analysis comparing the state results between the last two competitive primaries it is based upon factual information. I've refrained from posting any negative opinions about any of the candidates, although some people are upset that I don't give glowing reviews either.
I'm personally for the Democratic primary race to continue if for no other reason than it does generate press coverage for the eventual Democratic nominee while the Republicans continue to fight with each other over their future nominee. If the Republicans get to the point that it is obvious who their nominee is (without having a brokered convention) and/or the nomination is clinched by one of the Democrats then I hope that the other Democratic candidate would suspend their campaign and try to unify the party prior to the general election rather than go negative as we are seeing among the GOP candidates.
No matter which candidate wins the Democratic nomination I will vote for that candidate in the general election because I live in a red state and I know the damage that Republicans do when they are in power. The only things that will be swayed by who is selected is the amount of advocacy and the amount of any financial contributions I can give. I have not given anything to either candidate thus far because I have absolutely nothing to spare since I'm surviving off the generosity of others. I have not been an advocate for either candidate in the community where I live because my ties here are short term and temporary in nature. I have not been an advocate online since I doubt that my opinion is going to sway anyone's opinion.
Thanks for liking the cat--she does not deserve any animosity because of the partisanship of this site. She is my family and I find her to be far more likable than many of the people I interact with in real life and online also.
I very much appreciate your honesty, TT, and the courage of your self-disclosure. I know what it's like to be alone without family, very poor, living in a location that isn't home, and just trying to get by. I hope you're managing okay and that good things will open up for you. It's an advantage that you have a good mind and an interest in politics and the world, because curiosity, interest, and caring are life-enhancing qualities. I find they make external difficulties easier to bear.
Your take on the election is certainly valid. We differ on our understanding of Democrats. You seem to see those who go by the name "Democrat" as pretty much the same with only minor differences; I see two distinctly different camps within the party, one of which is genuinely what we think of as "Democrat," and the other is about 80% Republican in allegiance, beliefs, and intention but still goes by the name "Democrat." The latter, when they're being honest, admit to being DLC Democrats or Third Way Democrats. This group decided about 25 years ago to capitulate to Reganomics. They kept up a veneer of social issue liberalism, but it doesn't go very deep.
The reason I've felt hostility toward you is that I've seen you verbally attack DUers whom I care about. You recently attacked someone who is pretty special to me.
Your cat has a really good spirit, and it shows. Many if not most people can't see animals as individual beings with feelings, friendship bonds, and souls of their own. Those of us with pets often do, at least with regard to our own particular animal companions. Anyway, she's a sweetie. Good soul.
TexasTowelie
(128,150 posts)since I normally try to refrain from personal attacks online. I usually try to avoid the personality battles that occur here, but occasionally something will occur and I feel the necessity of being loyal to my friends also. Yesterday I dealt with some personal attacks before I even came online and it put me in a pretty sour mood for the day.
I'm guided by my experiences in life and I admit that I have lived a privileged life in many regards. I grew up poor, worked hard in school and had a reasonably successful life in state service and in the corporate world. I'm more accustomed to seeing incremental changes than seeing revolutions. While there is a romantic quality associated with such idealism that I hope will occur within my lifetime, I am also very pragmatic about my expectations. I hope that no matter which candidate wins the nomination that the tension can be put aside and that we can work for the greater good.
Every now and then I can be a jerk, but I think that most people do find me to be a compassionate person who has a record for being loyal to those around me. I find it easier to deal with animals because there needs are relatively simple--food, water, shelter and love while humans demand and expect much more.
leveymg
(36,418 posts)sweep states for Hillary, Dem numbers were down 30 plus percent. In states that Bernie won or came close to winning, the downward range was from five percent (Mass) to 23 percent (OK). No pattern or anything extraordinary, you say? 51% depressed Dem. turnout in TX - nothing extraordinary, you say? Meanwhile, the other brand picked up an overall 60 percent turnout. Nothing alarming? Go back to counting down until November.
TexasTowelie
(128,150 posts)Clinton was assured of victories by large margins which certainly affected turnout. During the 2008 Democratic primary in Texas most voters realized that it was going to be a tight race--Clinton actually won the primary vote, but lost to Obama in the caucuses that occurred afterwards. The closest poll results this year indicated a Clinton victory by 10% and most of the polls indicated a Clinton lead in the range of 30%-35%.
Take a look at this map and you will see that Bernie only won 13 out of 254 counties in Texas. The only major county (over 250,000) that Bernie won in Texas was Austin (Travis county) even though he had large rallies in Dallas, Houston and San Antonio.
http://www.nytimes.com/elections/results/texas
Most of the southern states also have open primaries for registered voters, but they do not allow same day registration as found elsewhere in the country. It is a common tactic in open primary states to raid the primaries in the other party to vote for the weakest candidate in the general election, but you generally have to be registered nearly a month in advance. I considered raiding the GOP primary myself, but I didn't want to suffer the embarrassment of having my voter registration card stamped to indicate Republican.
Another factor that may have come into play has been the adoption of voter photo-id laws. Most of those laws came into effect after 2008 and they apply mostly to Southern states. This is the first presidential election year where that law has applied in Texas so there might be some statistical effect for that reason, but I don't have any information that would lead me to make an estimate.
In addition, most of the contested races at the county level and even the state level in Texas only have Republicans running. Barring an interesting race at the top of the ticket people will vote in the GOP primary because that is what determines their state representatives, judges, sheriffs and clerks. In the county were I lived in during 2012 there were no Democratic candidates for any of the county races, state representative or state senator and it is a mid-sized county with about 30,000 residents located between Austin and Houston.
In short, trying to make a side-by-side comparison as what is being done is OP doesn't hold much validity due to a multitude of factors, some which I already mentioned and others that I may not have identified. If the race between Clinton and Sanders had been closer then it is quite likely that the turnout would have improved, but trying to extrapolate the primary results to a general election is a meaningless exercise without taking into account the other factors involved.
sadoldgirl
(3,431 posts)I'll be working for him and contributing until
He has won in California!
pandora nm
(63 posts)Fight on!!!
Lizzie Poppet
(10,164 posts)The fight for what Bernie stands for is too important. No more compromise, no more concessions.
jmowreader
(53,395 posts)"No compromise, no concessions" is why nothing gets done in Washington anymore.
Lizzie Poppet
(10,164 posts)...I frankly don't give a shit if they get them done or not. Way, way too fucking much of what gets done in Washington is for the benefit of the oligarchy, not nearly enough for the benefit of the people. I want business-as-usual to bog down.
Get people in office who actually work for their constituents (and not their paymasters), and I'll be the first to call for compromise.
jmowreader
(53,395 posts)Yes, I am referring to the Republicans in Congress. I thought you knew that.
Lizzie Poppet
(10,164 posts)My point was that when Congress does nothing, there can be a silver lining: they're not passing yet another bit of legislation that feathers the nests of Wall Street criminals and other parasites. But I do understand your very valid point. Under such circumstances, Congress also fails to pass legislation that's actually beneficial. Even a Republican Congress routinely considers and even passes good, beneficial (and sometimes just routinely necessary) bills.
CdnExtraNational
(105 posts)And then if there was anything that helps the regular guy it ends up in front of the supreme court.
restorefreedom
(12,655 posts)hack89
(39,181 posts)hard to see how Bernie is all of a sudden start getting people to vote for him that have ignored him to date. You need more than white men to win the nomination.
haikugal
(6,476 posts)We've only just begun to fight!!
ornotna
(11,556 posts)We've got to keep on keeping on.
No retreat, no surrender.
SamKnause
(14,945 posts)OhZone
(3,216 posts)Arazi
(8,887 posts)amborin
(16,631 posts)AzDar
(14,023 posts)SidDithers
(44,333 posts)Sid
ALBliberal
(3,386 posts)DJ13
(23,671 posts)Le Taz Hot
(22,271 posts)Logical
(22,457 posts)senz
(11,945 posts)who should be ignored or otherwise set aside and left behind.
Half-Century Man
(5,279 posts)Everybody know the fun part of skiing is after you clear the bunny slope.
TheCowsCameHome
(40,270 posts)n/t
edgineered
(2,101 posts)The HRC campaign belongs in the talons of Poe's raven - nevermore.
Skid Rogue
(711 posts)If you look at the Obama/Clinton map from 2008, consider the upcoming States in the Obama/Clinton coalition, then realize that the vast majority of those States are also proportional, it's hard to see how Senator Sanders is going to gain the numbers he needs.
Sanders will win more States, but so will Clinton. The big delegate States all have large Latino and African American communities. So, it's going to be hard for Sanders to have giant wins in delegate rich states. He's going to need those.
It's a steep hill to climb for Senator Sanders, but that doesn't mean he/you shouldn't try. I honestly believe he ran to push the party to the left. He's done a good job. Even if he loses he wins.
CaliforniaPeggy
(156,983 posts)I especially agree with you here:
It's a steep hill to climb for Senator Sanders, but that doesn't mean he/you shouldn't try. I honestly believe he ran to push the party to the left. He's done a good job. Even if he loses he wins.
Skid Rogue
(711 posts)I bet Senator Sanders was totally surprised when his message took off like a rocket. I'm also happy that the younger generation is so wonderfully liberal. I respect Bernie Sanders. I just don't believe he can get his agenda through. That's it.
senz
(11,945 posts)He is intelligent, very aware, thinks logically, cares strongly about people and the environment, and has over thirty years' experience in both legislative houses, getting along with colleagues on both sides of the aisle, cooperating to get bills passed or defeated. He is intimately familiar with the workings of the government.
His agenda is well thought out and many of his proposals have already been successfully employed by other countries. The financing of his proposals is carefully worked out and has been run through CBC algorithms for fiscal soundness. Many economists have approved his plans.
Here is Bernie on the issues: https://berniesanders.com/issues/
And here is how he plans to pay for his proposals: https://berniesanders.com/issues/how-bernie-pays-for-his-proposals/
He would face similar difficulties with a Republican congress that Obama has faced and that Hillary would face, although he is not as hated by the Right as they are. It is thought that if he does well in the election, he will have coattails for other progressive politicians -- and there are close to 200 of them planning to run.
So, give him some thought.
senz
(11,945 posts)I think he's running to get a political revolution started in this country.
Marie Marie
(11,518 posts)Time to send another donation...
Skid Rogue
(711 posts)CharlotteVale
(2,717 posts)MrMickeysMom
(20,453 posts)I tend to agree with folks who've posted here like retrowire... Bernie, whether he is bound for the WH or not, is in this for the people. The political revolution has been given some lip services and not too many people poke and prod around the issue of, "well, what exactly do you think you're going to DO?"
As I see it, this is evolving, but it is very much a 50 state strategy that one time progressive Howard Dean may have wished for, as I recall his early leaning to "talk to the people, bringing to the people first, prior to running it up the legislative flag pole. You have to have buy in from those who will carry it out.
We have to demand to the legislature (hounding, on their tail, filming, reporting from each field, using social media as our organizing tool) when an issue is of demand.
Personally, the delegate count variance is less at this point, and with 35 more states, the strategy, PUSHING ON ALL THE WAY... CAN bring Bernie to the WH... especially focused on those same damned issues!
I'm excited. I'm like my sig line, babe... not able to give up easily.
warrprayer
(4,734 posts)Of my city of Erie Pa.
Commodore Perry vs. the British fleet on Lake Erie, 1812, emerges victorious!

zentrum
(9,870 posts)Blue_In_AK
(46,436 posts)I have a caucus to attend on March 26, and I think Bernie is going to smoke Hillary here. We're just a small state (population-wise) but I'm not giving up.
SunSeeker
(58,374 posts)mwooldri
(10,827 posts)This primary season is now in full swing bang in the middle.
I think someone will concede in June... I have my hopes... but whoever wins let's dump trump.
southerncrone
(5,510 posts)CentralMass
(16,994 posts)ellennelle
(614 posts)i have just one question for the naysayers:
if hillary's camp is so convinced she's got this in the bag, why did the big dog risk committing a federal crime to suppress maybe a few hundred votes, max?
that is NOT the behavior of a confident candidate. that is the behavior of desperation.
senz
(11,945 posts)wagepeace
(15 posts)No way baby I #FeelTheBern... all the way to the convention. Remember a tsunami builds slowly & we've got away to go...it ain't over😊
I'm more determined to help Bernie!
Jack Rabbit
(45,984 posts)And beisdes, for us Sandernistas this is not a mere election campaign. My grandchildren will still be fighting against the oligarchy and Reaganomics long after I'm gone. It will all be rooted in Bernie's presidential campaign.
silvershadow
(10,336 posts)TIME TO PANIC
(1,894 posts)Duppers
(28,476 posts)Smarmie Doofus
(14,498 posts)....is that the Sanders campaign is really not a "campaign at all. It's a *movement*.
It's going to realign the political structure of the DEM Party.... much as the Goldwater movement was really about changing the GOP; not electing a candidate.
The Sanders Movement will be remembered as historically pivotal when the 2016 Clinton campaign is an obscure footnote. Another run for office by yet another perennial political candidate by a stock mediocrity, who'd never have been heard from absent her marriage to a flawed late 20th century, singularly unexceptional ( except for the impeachment; THAT was exceptional) care-taker president.
I think that's when things will turn around for Bernie.
Ferd Berfel
(3,687 posts)Bernie takes over from here
Especially with her indictment looming! She's Un-electable now.
Baobab
(4,667 posts)FailureToCommunicate
(14,620 posts)
AllyCat
(18,989 posts)2banon
(7,321 posts)hang in there with a tenacity a grizzly bear couldn't shake loose, and focus like a laser all the to the convention.
The Traveler
(5,632 posts)Like Bernie said ... 35 states have yet to vote.
This ain't over. Not by a long shot. Let's keep driving!
Trav
senseandsensibility
(25,515 posts)Punkingal
(9,522 posts)immoderate
(20,885 posts)--imm
Peace Patriot
(24,010 posts)Cenk just reported latest national match-up polls (CNN-ORC):
Sanders beats Trump by 12 pts. Clinton beats Trump by 8 pts.
Sanders beats Cruz by 17 pts. Clinton loses to Cruz by 1 pt.
Sanders beats Rubio by 8 pts. Clinton loses to Rubio by 3 pts.
Sanders "favorability": 60%
Clinton "unfavorability": 54%.
http://www.democraticunderground.com/12511397661
Among Dems, Sanders tied Clinton in IA (0.06), blew her away in NH (by 20 pts), got a near tie in MA, and won "purple" states MN and CO. Her wins are mostly in states that will go Republican in the fall (SC, GA, AL, TN, etc.)
Corporate pundits predicted Sanders would only win Vermont on Tuesday. (He won that, too--by something like 90%. Clinton may get zero delegates from VT). But he won much more than that. He won a real chance to get the nomination!
He also raised $6 MILLION in one day from small donors! Lord Ahmighty! I've never seen anything like that in my long lifetime of Democratic activism! And I've never seen a candidate like Bernie Sanders! Against all odds, and every conceivable obstruction by our own Corporate Democrats and the corpo-fascist media, HE HAS MADE THIS CAMPAIGN VIABLE! Bernie and all of us who have his back!
Amazing!
cannabis_flower
(3,939 posts)1. Bernie's hoping that he will win the majority of the delegates coming up
2. And this may be a problem for Hillary - http://www.democraticunderground.com/10141366687
MoreGOPoop
(417 posts)Propagandists understand how well discouragement works.
Fuck them. In fact, my future donations will be double the
usual amount. Bern it up!
TDale313
(7,822 posts)The Velveteen Ocelot
(131,227 posts)on Monday night - promises that Tuesday would be a total wipeout and Hillary would win everywhere - which has now turned into insistence that even though Bernie has won four states and there are several months of primaries to come, he should drop out because "the math" is in Hillary's favor.
Remember Karl Rove and "the math"?
It ain't over 'til it's over, and it ain't over yet.
Not me - I was motivated by the wins and look forward to the upcoming states.
Elmer S. E. Dump
(5,751 posts)FreedomRain
(413 posts)Hillary still has a chance
Thanks for the thread, WillyT.
Autumn
(49,020 posts)and not until then.
Feels fine. Bernie will keep going all the way to the convention. We will give and help and support him as best we can. If some unsavory entity gets itself installed, we'll keep moving this country toward a real, solid, formidable, people's revolution. We won't give up. We'll keep pushing, even if we have to go underground. We'll have support all over the world; our numbers will increase exponentially over time.
And sooner or later, preferably sooner, the people will win.
VulgarPoet
(2,872 posts)We're not even at halftime yet. And I've got a good feeling about the fifteenth for some reason. Trust the neck hair, it will never lead you astray.
gordyfl
(598 posts)The Best Is Yet To Come...
Betty Karlson
(7,231 posts)Tortmaster
(382 posts)By March 15, there is no viable track to victory for the Vermont Senator. Even now, he has to spend too much time explaining why his campaign still exists and how he has any "path forward." And he's already started to issue those statements that signal the end of campaigns, such as "We will fight to the convention!"
PatrickforO
(15,524 posts)I'm with Bernie all the way to the convention and then to the White House!
merrily
(45,251 posts)As to those two things, I stand with Senator Sanders.
LWolf
(46,179 posts)Vinca
(54,330 posts)marions ghost
(19,841 posts)as hard as they try to make the public believe it's a done deal.
Neither of the campaigns--Clinton or Sanders--believe it's over. You can be sure of that.
deutsey
(20,166 posts)I look forward to voting for him in my state's primary.
Although I live in another state, I've been a supporter of his since the '90s; I was happy when he declared his candidacy, but, frankly, I wasn't very optimistic that it would go very far. Suffice it to say, I've been very pleasantly surprised at well his campaign has done.
beaglelover
(4,500 posts)Octafish
(55,745 posts)
senz
(11,945 posts)when I posted the same sentiment via a youtube video of The Carpenters' "We've only just begun." This was before Super Tuesday, and, wanting to hang onto Hill's spurious edge with AAs, the scoundrels seized upon the whiteness of the singer to brand me just another "racist Berniebro."
Good thing I'm not God, because I'd make that degree of ill-intended underhandedness sufficient reason for spending an eternity in hell.
asuhornets
(2,427 posts)mahina
(20,713 posts)dana_b
(11,546 posts)the best is yet to come for Bernie AND us!!
sabrina 1
(62,325 posts)ahead than I would have thought.
But the Corp Media is desperately trying to send a message to Bernie supporters that they need to give up, and our message to them is 'WE KNOW WHAT YOU'RE DOING'
Lol, it's almost fun to watch the desperation.
olddots
(10,237 posts)fredamae
(4,458 posts)dug in...Still donating as often and as much as I can. I'm out when Bernie says he's out...not a second sooner. And even then....will what Bernie started End? Nope.
pdsimdars
(6,007 posts)All you have to do is look at the pictures of the Yuuuuuuge crowds that come to hear Bernie. And then look at the 20 people who show up in the penthouse apartment to hear Hillary.
One of them looks like a winner.
He should stay for the long haul (the convention).
Thanks for asking.
AmBlue
(3,460 posts)I feel like he did great on Super Tuesday despite the shenanigans. He's only just started!! And I LOVE that he's committed to go all the way to the CONVENTION!!
The man is amazing... he has the energy of a 30 year old!! And then some!!
Generic Other
(29,082 posts)Over the naysayers!
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