On what is going on, at a much deeper level

[nadinbrzezinski]

This discussion thread was locked as off-topic by BooScout (a host of the 2016 Postmortem forum).

Last edited Fri Mar 4, 2016, 02:30 AM - Edit history (1)

so the other day somebody got angry and alerted, and I got a hide for daring to mention the 1930s and Nazi Germany... sorry, but that is the closest analogy to what is going on currently. And no I was not calling our side of the candidates nazis.. for that matter, even though Mr Trump reminds me of Hitler, trupism, is so different from Nazism that I could not call him a nazi either. If you know anything about the rise of Adolph Hitler though, you will know that the media at the time laughed at Hitler. (For the record, they also made fun of Mussolini, but that is a far less known rise to power in the United States)

At the time, this might sound familiar, the German press gave a lot of coverage to that corporal from Bavaria. After he took power, they just outright took control of the media and they took away any protections media might have had. Hmm ok, let me point to this one, from Donald Trump

Donald Trump has been filing and threatening lawsuits to shut up critics and adversaries over the whole course of his career. He dragged reporter Tim O’Brien through years of litigation over a relatively favorable Trump biography that assigned a lower valuation to his net worth than he thought it should have. He sued the Chicago Tribune’s architecture critic over a piece arguing that a planned Trump skyscraper in lower Manhattan would be “one of the silliest things” that could be built in the city. He used the threat of litigation to get an investment firm to fire an analyst who correctly predicted that the Taj Mahal casino would not be a financial success. He sued comedian Bill Maher over a joke.

https://www.techdirt.com/articles/20160301/23422633778/yes-donald-trump-can-create-problems-free-speech-first-amendment.shtml

Now what Trump is doing, and the malfeasance from large corporate media in how they are reporting this race, go straight to the end of the fairness doctrine, that first started to be chipped at by the Reagan white house, but ended in 1996 with the Telecommunications Act during the Bill Clinton administration. During the Bush administration it also became legal to do propaganda within the United States. Did I mention Fairness was passed during the FDR years to prevent precisely what we are watching? I though I should.

This is by the by an aspect of fascism... control of the media, whether directly, or indirectly is indeed a marker, Talk of this was constant here on DU during the Bush administration. Alas that talk seems to be verbotten any more. It has just gotten worst.

Now to understand how we are at the historic moment we are, and yes comparisons to Nazi Germany will continue because I told you that some of this looks like oh the Chile of General Pinochet, I am betting a great majority here has no clue what I am talking about By the way, there are parallels to that as well, (thanks Mr Kissinger.) We taught Pinochet how to do it. In fact, our advisers were down there, teaching them how to do it. As they say, those birds are coming home to roost.

So let's take a stroll though history, shall we? Some of this is very recent, some not so much.

The prehistory of this is actually that third rate burglary at the Watergate hotel. The pardon that President Gerald Ford gave Richard Milhaus Nixon, set the first precedent when elites will never face the music. Iran Contra, during the Reagan administration set the next step, and finally the Obama administration taking any investigations off the table for the Bush crime family (seems odd to use that term, but correct) cemented this. I partly understand this, Empires tend not to hold those in power accountable, alas impunity for those in power is also a marker of fascism. There is literally nothing a well connected person in the United States can do. We do have two systems of justice..

Then come things like having supporters beat the shit out of people at rallies. That environment actually started with Bush, Remember the free speech zones? Yeah they were lovely and violated the same exact first amendment that Trump wants to step over. The Reichstag Fire led to the Decree of the Reich President for the Protection of People and State. This eliminated that free press that had laughed at the rise of Hitler, It was followed by the Enabling Act which has a few things in parallel to the United State Patriot Act. You would have to read both, and both were ready to go.

Of course that was preceeded by this...



And later on we have had a supporter of Rand Paul, well his security man, hit the living daylights out of a protester...

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2010/10/25/rand-paul-supporter-stomps-head_n_773857.html

And we have had, Clinton's security brutalize Ray McGovern in 2011

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/rob-kall/former-cia-agent-ray-mcgo_b_824433.html

Fast forward to this campaign...

We know what Trump has done with both press and protesters. One of the stories on this is from Salon and there are plenty more

http://www.salon.com/2016/02/29/theres_no_more_denying_trumps_campaign_of_hate_how_he_built_a_coalition_of_americas_bullies_xenophobes_bigots/

We are at a very dangerous moment, that BOTH parties have set the table for. Does this mean the year of flags? Does this means concentration camps? No. at least not yet. We are deep into a transformation of American society from a democracy to a pretend democracy.

I could make references to things you do not understand. The handy recognizable, we can all agree we more or less understand is the rise of Hitler. There are aspects to what we are seeing that have a lot more in common with both Argentina and Chile. For example, the Seattle WTO march and the suppression of Occupy have a lot more in common with early dirty wars all over Latin America. But that is alien to most of you. Yet, Hitler is somewhat familiar.

This year we also have another thing in common actually with the Third Reich. We literally have a radical right candidate, running against a center right candidate (that be Clinton) and a center left Candidate, (that be Sanders), No I am not playing the stupid games that Americans tend to play. The range of acceptable political discussion almost excludes Sanders from that discussion. This also happened in Germany, and unlike Germany though, we do not have an organized left. No we do not have one, not in your most feverish imaginations. That part of the story was taken care off starting with the Turner Raids of the 1920s, why the red baiting is far from working. Also the cold war has been over for a generation, but the dreaded left, is not even close to a sack of cats on the way to the river.

What we also have in common is the race baiting and hate. That was a daily occurrence in Germany and we are starting to see these incidents in the US. Oh and before you scream Trump, he has increased and enboldened them, but he is far from alone and it did not start this cycle

https://www.splcenter.org/fighting-hate/intelligence-report/2005/white-supremacists-unleash-hate-crime-backlash-against-minorities-california%E2%80%99s-inland

http://www.ocregister.com/articles/white-374363-orange-county.html

These are just two examples, from before the campaign.

So what form will our new fascist state take?

History never quite repeats itself, but the echoes do. Professor Woolin has already described it in Democracy Inc. The illusion of freedom will be maintained, as all your devises continue to be piped into NSA. The illusion includes places like this where I can post this. I can already hear the retort, but fascist states...

When needed, there will be moments when you will be asked to report on stuff. If you see something, say something. (It has somewhat of a value in certain conditions, but), We will continue to condition populations to not make waves. This ranges from TSA checks at the airport, to inner city schools that look more like prisons.



And yes, given the role of the media these days. and it is no longer hidden, we will have pretend elections.

One of the escapes from the Panotpicon is actually the web, This is why younger kids have a very different view of the world than regular evening news watchers. And we will continue to play the cynical game of divide and conquer. And why the web will be closed down... nothing can challenge the official view. Yeah, you will be able to go on it, but they will find a way to control it. They know that Sanders would never be where he is, if we only had TV and papers. That is a fact Jack, take it to the bank.

And if you get the idea to get out of the prescribed areas of behavior, we will bash your skull in.

Is this dystopia, yes... but Shadowrun references are appropriate at this point... and I expect this to be alerted as well. In fact, I expect every post from now on to be alerted.



Carry on.

One edit, thank you DU'er. oh the irony. Drescher endorsed Trump. Again, that does not shock me, Many in the intellectual class will before long...

[JonLeibowitz]

1. Saw this on twitter the other day. The parallels are shocking.

Out of curiosity, I found the first NYT reference to Adolf Hitler. Nov. 21, 1922. Amazing last three paragraphs.

https://twitter.com/jonostrower/status/705171149022433280

[nadinbrzezinski]

2. It has been circulating

indeed

[JonLeibowitz]

4. Excellent post, by the way. I wanted to make sure I had the "first word" so everyone could see it.

America truly has diverging paths presented to itself. I'm not optimistic about the ultimate outcome; America has a history, rarely interrupted, of doing the right thing too late and often at the last possible moment.

This does not augur well for things like Climate Change where the lag effect is substantial and the impact momentous. Having principled leaders, not reactionary fascists, will be even more important when destabilization increases.

[nadinbrzezinski]

6. I agree, we are sleep walking though history

[kristopher]

48. The foundation of fascism isn't authoritarianism, it's corporatism.

Authoritarianism is a tool of the fascist regime, and as evidenced by Japan, it isn't necessary for the authoritarian state to be organized around a dictator.

"Fascism should more appropriately be called corporatism because it is the merger of state and corporate power." - Benito Mussolini

[olddots]

3. your best post yet

I made a bumper sticker that said Berlin 1933 back after the Bush coup ..nobody got it because America has become run over by dumbth .

[nadinbrzezinski]

7. Well I am sure your local cops did

and you got a nice intel file at HQ... (I wish I were kidding)

[Hydra]

9. We all have one here on DU!

Except the Agent Mikes posting here...but they get a blackmail file on them instead.

Which is worse? :p

[nadinbrzezinski]

11. Oh yes, Agent Mike

Mine is getting thicker... I like to take on the powers that be.

[villager]

31. "Be worthy of your file. Earn their surveillance. They're going to do it anyway."

I used to say this back to college to everyone, in more innocent, less "networked" times, before info-scooping was the simple task it is now.

Friends used to chuckle at that.

I hope they grew worthy of their files!

[nadinbrzezinski]

32. LMAO

Some day we are going to have a stasi moment here... and I suspect peeps will be shocked.

[dchill]

5. One of your best, nadin.

Keepup the good work!

[840high]

43. Agree. Excellent work.

[Hydra]

8. A lot of people are in denial

I can simply point to a simple thing- where in the MSM do you get real, fact based news? If you had to depend on CNN, or MSNBC, or Fox Noise for all of your information, what would you "know" about our world?

Lies are utterly powerful when believed.

[Out of Time Man]

10. Fantastic work, nadinbrzezinski...

The encroachment of fascism is a slow one. There's a great passage from "They Thought They Were Free" that has been widely circulated on DU, and again, it can be aptly applied to the current political climate.

This has been a long time coming. My only hope is that Bernie can stem the tide.

Or at the very least, buy us some time to organize a counter-movement.

Also, +1 for the Shadowrun reference!

[nadinbrzezinski]

12. I consideredf Battletech

LONG LIVE DAVION, but Shadowrun is far more appropriate.

[Out of Time Man]

14. The fact that you're familiar with Battletech...

Has totally made my day!

I'm more of a dirty Clanner man myself, Wolf or Ghost Bear.

We are the last of the Wardens

[nadinbrzezinski]

16. I used to write for them

The magazine they put out, was a regular. And we play tested MW III..., after a nasty divorce and the ethics of the gaming industry, I would never recommend anybody write for any of these companies.

(Though during that play testing we mucked with the time line and a lot of that went into the Blake ascendant, including a scene in a novel... just set in a different planet.)

[Out of Time Man]

18. Blowin' my mind here Nadin!

That's so cool!

Unfortunately, I'm too young to have been able to have enjoyed the magazine. I've read a fair amount of the novels, and enjoyed each of the MW games (MW2 Mercenaries is by far my all time favorite game, period).

I'd love to hear more about your time in the gaming industry...I've always been curious as to what goes on behind the scenes.

I must say, it's really nice to have this moment in the sea of chaos that is primary season

[nadinbrzezinski]

20. It was nice,

the fans are kind of the best, but here is a hint, remember gamer gate?

Well, women in the US have more of a role than a lot of gamers do realize. Look at credits. Men will usually have their full name in the credit, Jill Lucas, for example, President at the time of FASA, went by J. Lucas.

It remains that way to this day.

[Out of Time Man]

23. I definitely recall Gamer Gate...

In fact, when you mentioned ethics in gaming, it was the first thing I thought of.

That was (and still is) such a shameful embarrassment in the gaming community.

I knew the industry was sexist, particularly in terms of their portrayal of women in games (which is one of the reasons I'm drawn to Battletech and Star Trek, as sexism has largely been dealt with in those universes), but I had no idea that it went so far as to obscure the vital contributions women have made to the medium.

Thanks for the information! I had no idea that the President of FASA was a woman. I feel that's something that should be widely known within our fandoms...

Could really use a, "The More You Know" smiley...

[nadinbrzezinski]

25. True, but the ethics go beyond that

no contracts, all verbal and a lot of plagiarism from developer material. The whole Blake stuff... was drawn from play testing reports, Katherine's arrest... we did that at Solaris. There were some differences, but we came up with that idea.

So these days I recommend that people do not even participate in Company run forums. And I don't care what company. And FASA had some ethics. White Wolf... ooohhh booy.

So these days we run a local news paper.

Oh and as far as sexism... early art of the industry was ahem, quite demeaning, The early depictions of Natasha Kerensky were ... classic 1980s era artwork, and I will leave it at that.

[Little_Wing]

13. KnR

Some days it's like a frickin Christopher Guest movie.

Thanks for your many enlightening posts.

[nadinbrzezinski]

15. You welcome

[daleanime]

17. K&R.....

[nadinbrzezinski]

19. I feel the headache too

[silvershadow]

21. Off topic, but I have to ask:

1. Are you related in any way to Mika? 2. Are you someone I should be familiar with? I think I remember eons ago some mention of you being a mover and shaker, and I now see you have 150k posts... Signed, me, an ordinary labor Democrat and plebe.

[nadinbrzezinski]

22. Nope, Brzezinski is a very common last name in... Poland

but when her dad was in the Carter Administration that never stopped INS from asking that question from my dad.

[silvershadow]

24. Thank you. It was none of my business. LOL

You get bonus points for being a team player, though.

[nadinbrzezinski]

26. People have asked in the past

and I get why... We are also Jewish, they are Catholic. And this happens all the time in Poland, or rather happened.

[Peace Patriot]

27. nadinbrzezinski, please see my comment here...

"Two reasons why I don't think Hillary's going to be indicted."
http://www.democraticunderground.com/12511407969
(Currently, the last comment on the page--I go somewhat off topic.)

I've been thinking along some parallel lines--re Kagan (PNAC), Kissinger, the email investigation, re what PNAC may be riding into the White House on Hillary and planning to do (PNAC goal--total US control of the ME).

My intuition as well: SOMETHING is NOT RIGHT about this campaign. ("The Matrix" illusion comes to mind.)

Now I'm going to read the comments on this thread.

[nadinbrzezinski]

28. I read it earlier

and I got CNN and Allan Deshowitz telling me ten ways to Sunday... why not.

I got flashbacks to his commentary about torture and the Bush years. Not in a good way.

[Peace Patriot]

38. I've bookmarked this page and the one I reffed for my comment,

in case you're gone for the night. If I don't reply in the next few days, it's not because I'm not interested. I am, very. It's funny how "great minds".... Well, mine ain't that great any more. Used to be hot on deep Bushwhack narratives. Still am, but some details are slipping away. It's background for all this, re who are the players behind the scenes, what are they up to, what internal conflicts are going on (that we may see just bits of), etc.

What do you think of my jumble of thoughts, questions and ct's on PNAC and its possible plans and the email investigation?

Thanks for focusing in on the media. I, of course, noticed that it is a monolithic propaganda machine--one of its purposes maybe to bore people to death--but, now that you mention Germany, I'm re-noticing how they gave scads of free time mainly to Trump, some to his creep boxing partners, a little to Hillary and NONE to Sanders. Thought it was just corporate shit, selling, selling, selling, products become candidates, more selling. Figured a nutty billionaire might be up their alley, to protect their investments and keep the peasants entertained, and buying, buying, buying. Figured Sanders was a scare to the privatizers of Social Security, etc., and they reacted to him with crossed fingers as to a vampire. ('Get thee gone, Satan!') Hadn't figured it was A PLOT, more than usual, to sell widgets and bullshit.

Also, I have been paying almost NO attention to Trump & co. I don't have TV and it was just so utterly boring to me--I'd barely picked up who's running, who's out, that Trump was unusual, that Rubio is probably Miami mafia and a threat to Latin America, and like that. I NEVER watch their debates, never read anything about them. I use crossed fingers when I come upon their images. And have started to feel the same about Clinton. Nothing she says means anything. Her voice and mannerisms annoy me. And now I have stacks of reasons--gathering the blossoms here at DU--in addition to existing reasons, to not want to listen to her, any more, ever in my life.

I've always thought that the Germany 1933/USA analogy--even during the Bush junta--was a stretch because Germany is actually so small, and the USA is very, very big, flung over a quarter of the globe, and extraordinarily diverse. Easier to gather Aryans together in that small country and start exterminating everybody else. Here, you'd have local rebellions forever--though I admit that the stockpiles of many different kinds of weapons in the wrong hands could be devastating. And they'd have 3,000 mile borders to control, north and south, and endless coastal in's and out's, not to mention vast plans, mountains and deserts in between. I mean, it's a BIG place to try to control.

OTHER means of control are needed here, and are already evident as you note. And it's very worrisome that precedents of torture and mass imprisonment have been set.

Also, there is much more diversity not just of people and terrain, but of rivals for power. CIA vs Rumsfeld/Cheney. FBI vs same. Big Corp vs Big Corp, many manifestations. Big military vs Big military vs privatized Military. Public prisons vs private prisons. Lab vs Lab. NASA vs Bush. Then all the, ahem, elected officials, fed, state, local and the Big Corps and Big Military they represent. DEA vs local jurisdictions. Feds vs state police vs. local police. It goes on and on. Very difficult place to control except by broad and mostly "soft" measures, unlike Hitler who had a concentrated area, population, gov't structure--at least at first--to occupy, transform and control. When Hitler spread out and got into other countries he soon had to deal with resistance movements all over the map. He succeeded, at first, with his Nazi structure, but it became unwieldy, moreso the further it spread. Had some of the fatal flaws of the Roman Empire.

Just imagine trying to control a place like NYC. Well, I guess 9/11 helped do that, temporarily. But a U.S. dictator would have to pull a 9/11 off every few months or so, and that would make quite a lot of wreckage. And think of L.A, big sprawling diverse monster, almost continuous now from Santa Barbara to San Diego. You certainly could create chaos, but could you create profitable order?

Again, I have not been paying attention to Trump or his naziness. Will pay more attention and give it some thought.

Goodnight and thank you for your post!

[senz]

46. Back in the Bush II era, I read PNAC's "Rebuilding America's Defenses"

(well, skimmed parts of it), and they were talking about U.S. military bases all over the world, not just the ME. The reason for invading Iraq was to advance the project into the ME, but the larger goal was world domination. If we hadn't been following their plan, I doubt there would be an ISIS.

I read your comment in the "don't think Hill's going to be indicted" thread, and it touched a whole bunch of bad memories from the Bush years. For a brief time after Obama was elected, I thought it was over with but then saw people noticing holdovers from the Bush administration staying around the capital. Then I realized that powerful agencies like the FBI, CIA and the military had a life of their own, regardless of who is president and heard mention of a shadow government, as well.

Yes, I too feel there's something strange about the campaign. Back a year ago, I was surprised so few strong Dems were talking about running for president. A few weak Dems, plus a medium one, O'Malley, did, and of course the totally unexpected campaign of Bernie Sanders, someone amazingly untouched by the dirt and corruption that greases the wheels of Washington. Which of course is why we fear for his life.

Not too much makes me feel hopeful. Besides Bernie, I think of Anonymous, wikileaks, intelligent, committed individuals like Laura Poitras, Edward Snowden, reporters like Amy Goodman, Chris Hedges (sort of), and whoever else is out there risking their lives to set up some sort of resistance. (And I think of the hatred these people elicit in Hill supporters, which is just weird.)

Now I suppose unmemorable types will read this thread and find their middle school sneering personas aroused.

[Cassiopeia]

29. Excellent post.

Thank you.

[deathrind]

30. Excellent post

As always. 😀

[Segami]

33. Old NYT Article About Early Rise of Hitler Sounds Eerily Familiar

Last edited Fri Mar 4, 2016, 03:43 AM - Edit history (1)

When The Wall Street Journal Reporter Jon Ostrower dug up the first mention of Adolf Hitler in the New York Times in 1922, he most likely had no idea just how relevant the article fragment would be in 2016 American politics. But when he posted the snipped to Twitter, it quickly gained traction from people who saw an eerie similarity to modern day.

Many have scoffed at our reference to Donald Trump as being a “fascist” or even calling him “little Hitler” but the proof is in the pudding. If only we could step back and end this dangerous and ugly strain of American politics before it goes too far.

Jon Ostrower Verified account @jonostrower

Out of curiosity, I found the first NYT reference to Adolf Hitler. Nov. 21, 1922. Amazing last three paragraphs.

http://trofire.com/2016/03/03/old-new-york-times-article-about-early-rise-of-hitler-sounds-eerily-familiar/

[senz]

41. It is hopeful that even the Republican brass are speaking out against him.

What Trump has going for him, though, is a huge number of enthusiastic, willing Americans whose minds have been dumbed down by a couple of decades of hate radio and Fox News.

Whenever I hear rightwingers chanting, "USA! USA! USA!" I always think of brownshirts chanting "SEIG HEIL." I was shocked the other night when as Hill gave her victory speech, the crowd began the "USA" chant, although after a couple of minutes, they suddenly stopped. I mentioned it in her victory thread and got some interesting replies. http://www.democraticunderground.com/12511387440

Something seriously unhealthy is happening in our country. Bernie is a very aware person, so he undoubtedly senses it as well.

[Segami]

44. You are right, there is more to their chants...

And you are not the only one who is sensing uncomfortable vibes throughout....

When looking at any Donald Trump event lately, it can almost be guaranteed that there will be some sort of protest. With his vitriolic and racist rhetoric, he’s bound to have at least a few people stand up and say something. Now, with Trump getting closer and closer to being the clear Republican nominee, these protests are becoming even more frequent. And Trump always makes sure any dissenting voice is removed, because god forbid anyone disagree with what he has to say. In an effort to remove these protesters as fast and as peacefully as possible, the Trump campaign has been playing this announcement before every event:

“This is a peaceful rally. In order to notify the law enforcement officers of the location of the protester, please hold a rally sign over your head and start chanting, “Trump. Trump. Trump.” Ask the people around you to do likewise til the officer removes the protester. Thank you for helping us make America great again.”

Now, if you’re like me and thought, “no way, that can’t be real, that has to be a voice over, because it’s just too goddamn creepy.” Well, upon further research, it is, in fact, true. According to NBC News, as of a couple of months ago, Trump began running this announcement at the beginning of his rallies.

“Attendees were instructed ahead of the event to not harm the protesters, an announcement that is becoming more frequent at the start of Trump’s events.

Audience members followed those rules as far as could be seen, cheering “Trump” and “U-S-A” until the interrupters were escorted out by event security and law enforcement.”

http://www.nbcnews.com/politics/2016-election/trump-takes-different-tack-protesters-punctuate-event-n490226

So, it seems this announcement is not only very real, but it is why we hear the “Trump! Trump! USA!” chants at every rally surrounding a protester using their freedom of speech to openly dissent.



Check out the extraordinarily bizarre announcement here:

http://www.addictinginfo.org/2016/02/29/check-out-creepy-announcement-made-before-trump-rallies-for-dealing-with-protesters-video/

[JDPriestly]

34. Excellent analysis.

And Hillary? Her role? Weimar Republic. If elected, she will face economic problems that she cannot understand. She will deal with them very poorly.

Read up on the Weimar Republic.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Weimar_Republic

Read up on Schuschnigg.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kurt_Schuschnigg

And Dolfuss.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Engelbert_Dollfuss

Bernie is the levelheaded candidate. The economic problems we are going to face in the coming years will be exacerbated by environmental crises.

Hillary, if elected, will be overwhelmed. She doesn't really have a feel for economics. Elizabeth Warren would handle that aspect of the presidency very well. So will Bernie.

Foreign policy is subordinate to economic policy. If you make mistakes in economic policy, your foreign policy will not make up for those mistakes and, what is more, you will have many fewer choices in foreign policy if your economy is doing poorly.

We have overspent on war and military adventures. We are probably involved in many more explosive spots in the world than any ordinary American could imagine.

One more thing: Germans I met who had lived in Germany during WWII always told me that the reason that Germans supported Hiitler and the NAZIs was that at a time of high unemployment he made sure everyone could have a job. (Everyone he did not throw into a prison camp or induct into the military.)

Jobs are key. We need to have a president who can deal with the economy and create jobs but who isn't a racist.

That's Bernie. Hillary is too conservative. Trump is too racist. The other Republicans will not strive to make sure there are enough jobs for people.

Bernie is the right person for this time.

And one of the reasons I believe that is that the German and Austrian history of the 1920s and the Third Reich are fairly familiar to me.

[Lordquinton]

35. There's a lot I have to just put out of my mind just to get out of bed

Studying climate and agriculture, and the California drought, well... sometimes I just don't get out of bed.

[Duppers]

39. oh, same here.

Cried during a movie a couple of months ago, not because of a sad scene but because it foretold our dystopic future

[senz]

36. I don't know if it's related or not

but I'm beginning to see that many people do not even attempt to have reasoned dialogue; they just blare out empty talking points, outright falsehoods or polling numbers like a wall of meaningless propaganda for the sake of filling up the screen with no thought, no dialogue, no real conversation whatsoever. I'm probably slow to be seeing this. I did realize a while back that they weren't even remotely interested in issues.

I can't understand why anyone would choose to behave that way. There is something inhuman about it, imho.

[Duppers]

40. Spare yourself..

Put them all in ignore. I couldn't tolerate the place otherwise.

[bananas]

37. And it's not just the US - look at Abe and Modi in Japan and India.

"Narendra Modi has at least one thing in common with Silvio Berlusconi"
http://qz.com/196029/how-the-opponents-of-modi-are-unwillingly-helping-him-gain-votes/

"How Shinzo Abe Became Postwar Japan's Most Consequential Leader"
http://www.newsweek.com/2015/10/09/shinzo-abe-critics-fear-militaristic-japan-future-377715.html

[Duppers]

42. Excellent, very excellent!

I remember most of your points, appreciate the iteration, and am bookmarking.

July 26th - 28th going to be very interesting. Thinking about traveling up.

[Betty Karlson]

45. Naomi Klein already warned about this.

Seems like things are only getting worse.

I also remember that scene from "Cabaret" where the rich male protagonist says that the fascists are useful to keep the socialist at arms length. And that his class can control them. And then the fascists start singing, and the question is: "So you think you can still control them?"

[PATRICK]

47. Not just 1940's fascism

Greece is constantly under this cloud and it could happen to anyone hurt by the Eurozone austerity doctrine. Right wing voter resurgence in Europe happens in every savage economic downtown because the wealth establishment rallies their own victims as soon as they wake up angry and looking to express political power, often for the first time. In other words the power hungry and greedy lead the angry and fearful immediately to the dark side of the Force with money media and simplistic jargon. Playing hate card everywhere where it will not land on the real problem.

Now when the pragmatists brush aside the lefties it is hardly a triumph for moderation and common sense. Too often the main weakness of the left is in demurring to the same banks overlording the problem from outside the country and then having to deal with the lawless and blind daring of mobs transformed into the rich men of the nation's orcs.

Those who take advantage of the crisis situation know well the inertial apathy of the presently aroused ill informed citizenry. A minority of thugs will be empowered. A majority of justice seeking moderates will be put on ignore.

[Bad Dog]

49. As far as revelations go, this is right up there with water is wet and fire is hot.

Rose tinted spectacles and all that. There's a phenomenon on the internet that says whenever a black person or a Moslem commits a violent crime it's somehow indicative of the whole race/religion, but when someone white does the same thing they're a crazed loner, a troubled individual. It's one thing talking about a disturbed gunman but to hang Pinochet's coup on the shoulders of one man, Kissinger, takes a bit of doing.

Kissinger wasn't responsible for Pinochet, white corporate America was responsible, like it's responsible for the abortive coup in Honduras and the sanctions against the democratically elected government in Venezuela.

This only started with Ford pardoning Nixon? How very convenient. Try going back a bit further when Senator John McCarthy used Stalin's Russia as an excuse to get rid of anyone with any left leaning ideas. Or you could look at the removal of a democratically elected government in Iran and the installation of a dictator, the Shah. That happened under Eisenhower.

Or you could look at Henry Ford giving the profits from sales in Germany direct to the Nazi party or Roosevelt being unable to fight the Nazis because of Congress, right up until Hitler declared war.

Or you could go right back to the beginning, a "democracy" where black people were slaves, the indigenous population were pushed off their lands and mineral resources were snatched up by a handful of white oligarchs. That's free stuff for you.

The native American didn't become a citizen in 1924, and you still celebrate their near annihilation every Thanksgiving. There's lots of flag waving as it is and children have to make a pledge of allegiance. Where do you think Hitler got the idea from?

This has been going on for a very long time, the Roman model of bread and circuses has kept the population cowered. Subsidised food, trash TV and guns to play with all gives the illusion of freedom. Fundamental rights like Health Care and affordable housing are seen as free stuff while a wealthy elite steal the people's mineral resources and control the utilities. The people need to take back what is theirs by right, nationalise the utilities and take back the mineral resources, the oligarchs have had free stuff for too long. You won't do it with rose tinted pseudo Socialism, you need the real thing, but first you need to start being honest.

[mmonk]

50. Well done.

[Arazi]

51. Wow! Lots of food for thought here. Well done! !!

[RiverLover]

52. Awesome, awesome post!

My fav line from the main OP article, out of so many~

Did I mention Fairness was passed during the FDR years to prevent precisely what we are watching?"

He did so much to make this country great & now modern Democrats, third way new dems, Clintonists, are just destroying it.

[Logical]

53. Kick

[islandmkl]

54. we are at what I would call the 'stretched' point...not breaking only because of resilience...

but there IS a point where the structure will snap...always has in all societies...

there are a lot of directions it can go, but in general, regardless of the dominance of reactionary/regressive forces, the society will either 'correct' itself...or be forced to...

it is not merely about change, because the change can always be in the wrong direction (enhanced status quo) and things can become worse...unfortunately, many people accept things getting incrementally worse because they either fear or don't have the energy to fight for turning the society around...

the slow, methodical repression of rights numbs the masses into acceptance...

until the day the guillotine is turned on its masters...

I've said before that when it comes it won't be pretty...but it sure as hell ain't that pretty now...

[lunasun]

55. Huh???? ' '"Many in the intellectual class will before long... " You talkin about the TV nanny?

intellectual class ?
Do you mean to say, along with the TV celebrity class,or something?.

[BooScout]

56. Locking...

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