HomeLatest ThreadsGreatest ThreadsForums & GroupsMy SubscriptionsMy Posts
DU Home » Latest Threads » Forums & Groups » Retired » Retired Forums » 2016 Postmortem (Forum) » Hillary Supporters - Hone...

Mon Mar 7, 2016, 05:40 AM

 

Hillary Supporters - Honest Question - Are you a Center-Right Democrat?

Although I haven't been here long I notice Bernie supporters are genuinely on the Left. They are unquestionably Liberals and Progressives.

But for you Hillary supporters i can't fully grasp what your leanings are. The more i read about Hillary and her past (and her real, non-campaign, views) and the more i read posts by her supporters on here i can't help but see that you are definitely to the Right of Bernie supporters. I am not saying you are Republicans, you are definitely democrats, but just have much more conservative views than Bernie supporters.

The democratic party's principles have shifted more Right over the years relative to say the 70s and 80s. That is undeniable. And because the party's definition of what is considered Left has shifted more center-right over the years this result has caused the republican party to go even more to-the-right (and hence, more radical) -- the new definition of being "Right".

There is a divide in the democratic party where by you Hillary supporters have followed the party's rightward shift over the years (which is now defined as the new "Left", while the other portion, the Bernie supporters, have continued to stay faithfully at the original definition of Left (of the 70s/80s) with their views.

So the real question then is do you, as Hillary supporters, view yourselves as center-right when you look back at the original definition of what it meant to be a real Left-leaning Democrat?

Thanks

97 replies, 9498 views

Reply to this thread

Back to top Alert abuse

Always highlight: 10 newest replies | Replies posted after I mark a forum
Replies to this discussion thread
Arrow 97 replies Author Time Post
Reply Hillary Supporters - Honest Question - Are you a Center-Right Democrat? (Original post)
quantumjunkie Mar 2016 OP
pkdu Mar 2016 #1
Lorien Mar 2016 #2
Red Knight Mar 2016 #4
DRI Mar 2016 #12
Cobalt Violet Mar 2016 #8
reformist2 Mar 2016 #14
marions ghost Mar 2016 #32
Dem2 Mar 2016 #78
Paka Mar 2016 #3
reformist2 Mar 2016 #5
LineLineReply !
ejbr Mar 2016 #10
earthside Mar 2016 #61
bigtree Mar 2016 #6
ejbr Mar 2016 #11
RiverLover Mar 2016 #16
Kittycat Mar 2016 #34
ecstatic Mar 2016 #7
Vattel Mar 2016 #9
Trust Buster Mar 2016 #17
Chan790 Mar 2016 #19
RiverLover Mar 2016 #27
dana_b Mar 2016 #52
Jester Messiah Mar 2016 #80
BlueMTexpat Mar 2016 #24
A Simple Game Mar 2016 #26
NurseJackie Mar 2016 #28
marions ghost Mar 2016 #36
Hekate Mar 2016 #93
mark67 Mar 2016 #13
marions ghost Mar 2016 #37
pengu Mar 2016 #63
stonecutter357 Mar 2016 #15
Herman4747 Mar 2016 #20
Hekate Mar 2016 #95
SylviaD Mar 2016 #21
Trust Buster Mar 2016 #18
Red Knight Mar 2016 #22
SylviaD Mar 2016 #23
The Far Left Mar 2016 #31
INdemo Mar 2016 #33
Kip Humphrey Mar 2016 #79
BlueMTexpat Mar 2016 #25
marions ghost Mar 2016 #39
Logical Mar 2016 #43
Cobalt Violet Mar 2016 #62
oberliner Mar 2016 #29
The Far Left Mar 2016 #38
oberliner Mar 2016 #42
The Far Left Mar 2016 #56
oberliner Mar 2016 #60
marions ghost Mar 2016 #40
oberliner Mar 2016 #41
marions ghost Mar 2016 #47
oberliner Mar 2016 #48
Svafa Mar 2016 #88
Logical Mar 2016 #44
oberliner Mar 2016 #45
pengu Mar 2016 #64
casperthegm Mar 2016 #67
oberliner Mar 2016 #72
NurseJackie Mar 2016 #30
Martin Eden Mar 2016 #35
oberliner Mar 2016 #46
Martin Eden Mar 2016 #65
oberliner Mar 2016 #73
Martin Eden Mar 2016 #75
oberliner Mar 2016 #81
Martin Eden Mar 2016 #82
oberliner Mar 2016 #87
Martin Eden Mar 2016 #96
beachbum bob Mar 2016 #49
RiverLover Mar 2016 #51
Demsrule86 Mar 2016 #50
yardwork Mar 2016 #69
DemocratSinceBirth Mar 2016 #53
Loki Mar 2016 #54
Nye Bevan Mar 2016 #55
LonePirate Mar 2016 #57
Thinkingabout Mar 2016 #58
Bobbie Jo Mar 2016 #59
Name removed Mar 2016 #70
Bobbie Jo Mar 2016 #74
WhaTHellsgoingonhere Mar 2016 #66
MaggieD Mar 2016 #68
forjusticethunders Mar 2016 #83
boythayer Mar 2016 #71
Nonhlanhla Mar 2016 #90
Adrahil Mar 2016 #76
hack89 Mar 2016 #77
Nonhlanhla Mar 2016 #84
Starry Messenger Mar 2016 #85
QC Mar 2016 #86
Nedsdag Mar 2016 #89
Hekate Mar 2016 #91
ThePhilosopher04 Mar 2016 #92
taught_me_patience Mar 2016 #94
quantumjunkie Mar 2016 #97

Response to quantumjunkie (Original post)

Mon Mar 7, 2016, 05:43 AM

1. Bless your cotton socks child. n/t

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to quantumjunkie (Original post)

Mon Mar 7, 2016, 06:24 AM

2. Nah, they're solidly Right Wing

We would call them Reagan Republicans 25 years ago, but decades of Fox "News" and Rush Limbaugh have made them think that being slightly to the left of the crazed Ayn Rand acolyte filled far right wing clown car makes them "centrists". In every other Country they're as hardcore Right as it gets, and that's why they hate us; they dislike Liberals even *more* than Reagan did!

Note: G.W.Bush and Clinton occupy the same spot on the political compass. McCain is slightly to her left, but more authoritarian.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to Lorien (Reply #2)

Mon Mar 7, 2016, 06:32 AM

4. Yep.

They have moved that goalpost.

Left to them--isn't what it used to be. They have corrupted the party and like the Pied Piper have led their followers along the path with them. Corporate media shifted with them to basically destroy the true left in this country. Bernie running this year has exposed so many of them for what they truly are. They can't pretend anymore. And they hate him for that and have gone "all-in" on seeing he gets defeated so they can bury all of this and go back to pretending. We need more Bernie Sanders in the future--true and honest politicians who will keep swinging that hammer at the establishment.

It's a long fight.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to Red Knight (Reply #4)

Mon Mar 7, 2016, 07:29 AM

12. Depends on the issues. Ninety percent left, ten percent right

 

I consider myself very socially liberal, economically liberal, but where i consider myself center right is on the issue of gun rights. Grew up in a rural area, hunted all my life, have small wooded area and yes I carry a gun with me at most times in the car and on the wooded land. Neither myself nor my partner would feel safe traveling some of these roads at night without having a weapon in the car. So for us it is a balancing act in the primaries. In the general election always Democratic candidates but often with great concern about our gun rights. We have quite a few friends who feel similar but for them they will not support a Democratic Party candidate who do not support gun rights.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to Lorien (Reply #2)

Mon Mar 7, 2016, 06:38 AM

8. Absolutely true.

Watched it as it happened. I've always been disgusted by it and still am. I am delighted that millenniasl are Liberal. It's the only hope for the true left.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to Lorien (Reply #2)

Mon Mar 7, 2016, 07:31 AM

14. I would say Hill supporters are left-ish on a handful of social issues - on the rest it isn't clear.


They pretty much agree with whatever comes out of Hillary's mouth, even if she's talking out both sides.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to reformist2 (Reply #14)

Mon Mar 7, 2016, 08:48 AM

32. What has Hillary ever supported that could be considered leftish?

What has she ever done that was liberal/progressive?

I can't think of anything.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to Lorien (Reply #2)

Mon Mar 7, 2016, 11:37 AM

78. I'm about 4 boxes to the left of Ralph Nader

Same on libertarian side. I support both candidates equally.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to quantumjunkie (Original post)

Mon Mar 7, 2016, 06:30 AM

3. Good questions indeed.

Welcome to DU!

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to quantumjunkie (Original post)

Mon Mar 7, 2016, 06:32 AM

5. They're with her... wherever she decides to be that day!

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to reformist2 (Reply #5)

Mon Mar 7, 2016, 07:19 AM

10. !

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to reformist2 (Reply #5)

Mon Mar 7, 2016, 10:15 AM

61. Sad to say ... that is closest.

For many it is all about "First Woman President!"

They will deny it and object, but the way they shift around and rationalize all of Hillary's flip-flops; her clear preference for bankers, and Wall Street super investors, Walmart-type corporatists; her conservative and neocon tilt, leaves only one logical explanation: "First Woman President" and it is Hillary's turn matters more than being a good solid progressive and/or liberal.

There is some kind of odd generational loyalty to Mrs. Clinton, probably because they were denied eight years ago and it may have something to do with a sense that the 1960s-1970s era of the Women's Lib movement is owed some kind of reward and Hillary (bizarrely in my estimation) is the symbol of that yearning.

Hillary Clinton is all about the advancement of herself; she is one of those Democrats who believes that the nation is inherently conservative and that the biggest obstacle to her success is the liberal/left base of the Democratic Party. She is at best a Rockefeller Repuglican if she has much ideology at all. I have great concerns over her being president for these reasons, there is something rather Nixonian about her character in my view and see only political crisis if heaven forbid she ever get elected.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to quantumjunkie (Original post)

Mon Mar 7, 2016, 06:32 AM

6. how can you tell anyone here is 'genuinely' anything?

..especially the anti-Democratic party posters?

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to bigtree (Reply #6)

Mon Mar 7, 2016, 07:21 AM

11. The corporatists

have taken over the party; we're anti-corporatists. The party was not as it is, so we are not just going with the flow

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to bigtree (Reply #6)

Mon Mar 7, 2016, 07:42 AM

16. That would be anti-establishment Democratic Party, which is more republican than Democratic

these days. And they're obviously corrupted by Moneyed Interests, this hijacking of the party (along with corporate media) in favor of Clinton2 has made that inescapably obvious.

I mean, do you really want us Democrats out here to have to CONTINUE to defend~

*Trade deals that take American jobs & give them to people working for slave wages to further enrich the rich & crush our middle class.

*Rampant & unregulated fracking, polluting our land and air and spewing pipelines across the country which spreads the risks.(keystone was just one of many, with less catchy names.) Barging radioactive waste on the Ohio River, risking the water source of millions.

*Monopolies

*Deregulated Wall Street. (we're at risk for a repeat of 2007/8)

*Unending and extremely costly (in lives & $$$) wars for corporate profit.

*Privatized everything

*Off shore oil drilling (WTF??)

*Minimum wage jobs that don't provide a living wage, and with our manufacturing jobs leaving & college out of reach for the majority, minimum wage is all that is left for the majority.)

*BigAg wiping out small farms & destroying ecosystems & bats, bees, butterflies, birds.

& so on.

What are we voting FOR when we vote for Democrats these days?

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to RiverLover (Reply #16)

Mon Mar 7, 2016, 08:48 AM

34. +1

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to quantumjunkie (Original post)

Mon Mar 7, 2016, 06:36 AM

7. I'm more of an observer, but this: "Bernie supporters are genuinely on the Left, unquestionably

Liberals and Progressives" isn't true when you factor in all the threats of not voting for the Democratic nominee.

I know there are a lot of sincere progressives who support both candidates. But anyone who can't connect the dots between getting liberal policies passed and the reality of the next president nominating up to 4 Supreme Court justices is not liberal, progressive, or left. They might be closer to libertarians and anarchists?

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to ecstatic (Reply #7)

Mon Mar 7, 2016, 06:48 AM

9. My guess is that Clinton will appoint justices that are liberal on social issues

 

but way more conservative than Scalia on individual rights, executive power, and government power. I hope I am wrong.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to ecstatic (Reply #7)

Mon Mar 7, 2016, 07:50 AM

17. Excellent and succinct post.

 

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to ecstatic (Reply #7)

Mon Mar 7, 2016, 07:57 AM

19. I'm just going to say what I said in 2012 and 2008 and 2004.

 

"There's never going to be a good Presidential electoral cycle to withhold our votes from the increasingly-right-wing Democratic candidates to make it clear that we know and no longer accept that they have, factually, divorced and lost the Democratic party base. They do however know this, don't care, and believe they have us captive to their selling-out of us for personal gain.

The American center-left and left is a hostage in its own party and will remain so until they realize, much like the end of Fight Club, that they're the ones holding the gun in their own mouth.


So, it is what it is, we are where we are...and there's a real chance this is the election when the American left decides to pull the trigger and spatter the electability of fake Democrats all over the floor, then watch out the window as the false American political landscape explodes to the atonal opening notes, lone guitar riff, and chirpy vocals of Black Francis on Where is my mind? by The Pixies.



You see doom. I see a beautiful metaphor for our liberation from the likes of Hillary and the saving of the Democratic party by those brave enough to act sanely in the face of mounting insanity and our own oppresson. They're the heroes of the Democratic party, not anarchists or libertarians...they're the only sane ones left in the tent because when they were children, their mothers read them The Lorax by Dr. Seuss and they remember:



Caring makes acting necessary. The consequences of caring lies with our enemies, including the malign right inside the Democratic party. If Hillary loses and we end up with President Trump...it will be the faults of her supporters for being allies and backers of a political hostage-taker. All the left would be doing is acting in self-defense by blowing-up her Presidential aspirations.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to Chan790 (Reply #19)

Mon Mar 7, 2016, 08:28 AM

27. ^^^ THIS!

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to Chan790 (Reply #19)

Mon Mar 7, 2016, 09:57 AM

52. Bravo!! Best post here and

it explains (very eloquently and with great graphics!) how I and many of us feel. Thanks!!

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to Chan790 (Reply #19)

Mon Mar 7, 2016, 11:39 AM

80. Right on! n/t

 

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to ecstatic (Reply #7)

Mon Mar 7, 2016, 08:18 AM

24. +!! eom

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to ecstatic (Reply #7)

Mon Mar 7, 2016, 08:28 AM

26. And anyone that holds the treat of the Supreme Court over others heads to garner support

for someone that is not liberal is no liberal themselves. Qualification for the job comes before who they may or may not appoint to the Supreme Court. Voting for an unqualified candidate because of who they may appoint is foolish.

Voting for the lesser of two evils is still voting for evil.

The best bet is to vote for the best candidate for the job regardless of party, or lack of party, that is the only way the best candidate wins, vote for them.

Human race comes first, then family, friends, then America, there is no place for party. Certainly not party before Country.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to ecstatic (Reply #7)

Mon Mar 7, 2016, 08:38 AM

28. Thank you very much.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to ecstatic (Reply #7)

Mon Mar 7, 2016, 08:53 AM

36. But what has Clinton ever done

in the past that is "liberal"?

I can't think of any past evidence or a reason of any kind --why Liberals should go with her. (I am definitely not interested in "first woman president" stuff).

If you can think of even one reason, please post it.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to ecstatic (Reply #7)

Mon Mar 7, 2016, 06:10 PM

93. +1 Nicely put

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to quantumjunkie (Original post)

Mon Mar 7, 2016, 07:29 AM

13. Where do I sign up for your purity test?

Center-right, center-left, centrist, hard left, hard right. What difference does it make? The stakes are too high this election cycle for the Democratic Party to make these types of distinctions.

If Sanders gets the nomination I will vote for Sanders. If Clinton gets the nomination I will vote for Clinton.

Watching the Kerry-Dean-Gore campaigns go down in flames (and the Nader campaign contribute to putting W. in the White House...yeah the Green Party...those guys were politically pure) have pushed me into the Clinton arena.

These discussions are interesting but the poster above who put Clinton in the same category as W.? (scratching head)

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to mark67 (Reply #13)

Mon Mar 7, 2016, 08:55 AM

37. Sorry but that horse left the barn in the last few years

We MUST make the distinction.

We have two conservative parties in the US now.

I want real democracy.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to mark67 (Reply #13)

Mon Mar 7, 2016, 10:17 AM

63. I'm tired of NOT making the distinction

NOT making the distinction has lead us to this point. NOT making the distinction has let the party drift ever rightward. NOT making the distinction means lefties will never, ever make progress.

It is the PERFECT time to make the distinction.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to quantumjunkie (Original post)

Mon Mar 7, 2016, 07:39 AM

15. I am a member of the democratic party.

i don't need a label.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to stonecutter357 (Reply #15)

Mon Mar 7, 2016, 07:57 AM

20. But are you a part of the Democratic Wing of the Democratic Party?

 

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to Herman4747 (Reply #20)

Mon Mar 7, 2016, 06:13 PM

95. Howard Dean was, right up until DU tossed him under the bus and ran over him a few times. nt

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to stonecutter357 (Reply #15)

Mon Mar 7, 2016, 07:58 AM

21. Hear hear! n/t

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to quantumjunkie (Original post)

Mon Mar 7, 2016, 07:55 AM

18. Efforts to place a self avowed Socialist smack dab in the center of the Democratic Party is farcical

 

I watched last night as Sanders was asked how he will get his far flung proposals through Congress. His response was to go on a tirade about how Congress represents the establishment and he's anti-Establishment. He's a radical Leftist.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to Trust Buster (Reply #18)

Mon Mar 7, 2016, 07:58 AM

22. If Bernie is a "radical" leftist to anyone in this party...

then the party is over.

Fortunately there are enough true Democrats left who will continue to fight for the soul of the party.

You know--from the radical right.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to Trust Buster (Reply #18)

Mon Mar 7, 2016, 08:00 AM

23. Sanders is a fringe candidate, always will be.

He has inspired people, but he isn't the one to take on the likes of Donald Trump or Ted Cruz.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to SylviaD (Reply #23)

Mon Mar 7, 2016, 08:47 AM

31. We Need Another FDR Revolution

 

As this Primary has progressed, I have learned that Hillary Clinton will never be like FDR.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Second_Bill_of_Rights

'The Second Bill of Rights is a list of rights that was proposed by U.S. President Franklin D. Roosevelt during his State of the Union Address on January 11, 1944.[1] In his address Roosevelt suggested that the nation had come to recognize, and should now implement, a second "bill of rights". Roosevelt's argument was that the "political rights" guaranteed by the US Constitution and the Bill of Rights had "proved inadequate to assure us equality in the pursuit of happiness." Roosevelt's remedy was to declare an "economic bill of rights" which would guarantee eight specific rights:'

Employment (right to work)
Food, clothing and leisure, via enough income to support them
Farmers' rights to a fair income
Freedom from unfair competition and monopolies
Housing
Medical care
Social security
Education

'Roosevelt stated that having these rights would guarantee American security, and that the United States' place in the world depended upon how far these and similar rights had been carried into practice.'

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to SylviaD (Reply #23)

Mon Mar 7, 2016, 08:48 AM

33. If you want to see one those mentioned take the oath of office

than nominate Hillary..Hillary may have thousands of supporters in the (Corporate Media for now)DU.The Southern States,and States the Corporations have bought for her but DWS will have no influence or dirty tricks to play in the National Election.



Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to Trust Buster (Reply #18)

Mon Mar 7, 2016, 11:38 AM

79. "He's a radical Leftist." Do you think so? Gee, I hope so!

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to quantumjunkie (Original post)

Mon Mar 7, 2016, 08:25 AM

25. What a condescending and patronizing

question! I. Am. A. Democrat. Hillary. Is. My. Candidate.

You don't know me or my life experience. If you did, you would feel ashamed of yourself for asking such a thing. That is, if you are capable of felling shame.

I am sure that you already have your own idea of the political purity test that I should meet. As a wild outside guess, it would entail my immediately feeling the Bern.

We have two excellent candidates. Many good people support each candidate for various reasons. A "label" - as perceived by someone who supports one candidate or the other - is not the reason.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to BlueMTexpat (Reply #25)

Mon Mar 7, 2016, 09:01 AM

39. We have two candidates

One has sold out, hijacked by big money interests --and the other has been ridiculed and marginalized for exposing the truth. One is a corporatist, one is a populist. One will work for business interests, one will work for the good of the whole.

Pick one.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to BlueMTexpat (Reply #25)

Mon Mar 7, 2016, 09:17 AM

43. FFS, it is a fair question, drop the fake outrage. Nt

 

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to Logical (Reply #43)

Mon Mar 7, 2016, 10:15 AM

62. None of them really want to admit they are right wingers. n/t

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to quantumjunkie (Original post)

Mon Mar 7, 2016, 08:39 AM

29. Bernie Supporters - Honest Question - Are you actually a Democrat?

 

Bernie Sanders was not a Democrat for almost all of his political life. He has stood outside of the party for decades. He has said: "The fact that I am not a Democrat gives me the freedom to speak out on the floor of the House" and more succinctly "I am not a Democrat and have no intention of become one."

So the real question then is do you, as Bernie supporters, view yourselves as Democrats?

Thanks

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to oberliner (Reply #29)

Mon Mar 7, 2016, 08:58 AM

38. Was FDR a Real Democrat? nt

 

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to The Far Left (Reply #38)

Mon Mar 7, 2016, 09:16 AM

42. Yes, he never ran as an independent

 

He was a leader in the Democratic party for decades.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to oberliner (Reply #42)

Mon Mar 7, 2016, 10:00 AM

56. Bernie is not a corporate surrogate.

 

Is it possible for the Democratic policy positions to shift so far to the right that they no longer represent the original Democratic Party?

What if the current DNC leadership acts like moderate corporate Republicans? What then would define a real Democrat?

Are you best defined by your logo, or by the policies you promote?

Bernie is the real deal. He is not a corporate surrogate. Bernie is an FDR Democrat. He's the type of Democrat that made America the greatest nation on Earth.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to The Far Left (Reply #56)

Mon Mar 7, 2016, 10:13 AM

60. The original Democratic party?

 

I don't think any of us would want to go back to the original Democratic party, do you?

Let me ask you a question: when did this shift to the right begin? At what point was the Democratic Party not the way you categorize it now? What decade are you talking about as being the last time the Democratic Party was what you would have it be?

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to oberliner (Reply #29)

Mon Mar 7, 2016, 09:05 AM

40. The Democratic party has gone so far to the right

in the last decades--how do you expect anybody who is NOT conservative to support them any more?

After 30 years of supporting the Democratic party, I am no longer happy to do so unless there is change in the party. Enough.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to marions ghost (Reply #40)

Mon Mar 7, 2016, 09:16 AM

41. Bernie Sanders was not a Democrat three decades ago

 

He had been an Independent for over three decades until recently.

This was presumably during the time when you supported the Democratic party.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to oberliner (Reply #41)

Mon Mar 7, 2016, 09:43 AM

47. I'm beyond labels at this point

He has always been a Liberal (Social Democrat) or whatever label you wish to call the Democratic wing of the Democratic party. I stand for what he stands for.

I want real democracy in America. Not corporatocracy.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to marions ghost (Reply #47)

Mon Mar 7, 2016, 09:48 AM

48. Bernie Sanders: "Iím not a liberal. Never have been"

 

He has said that on more than one occasion. Here's the most recent:

http://www.nytimes.com/2015/07/12/upshot/class-or-ideology-my-conversation-with-bernie-sanders.html?_r=0

The OP is about labels - my question was really meant in response to the question framed in the OP which I found to be ridiculous.

Personally, I think Bernie and Hillary are both great.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to oberliner (Reply #48)

Mon Mar 7, 2016, 06:03 PM

88. "Liberal" comes weighted with a lot of connotations.

I never use the term "liberal" to describe myself (opting for "progressive" instead), because the word liberal can be used to describe anyone left of center politically, but it also carries the baggage of economic liberalism (e.g., neoliberalism), which is the polar opposite of what many progressives (who may call themselves liberal without knowing about the murkiness of the term) stand for.

Economic liberalization is the lessening of government regulations and restrictions in an economy in exchange for greater participation by private entities; the doctrine is associated with classical liberalism.


If we're speaking about economic liberalism, I am proud to support a candidate who does not identify as liberal.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to oberliner (Reply #29)

Mon Mar 7, 2016, 09:18 AM

44. Yes, a real one. Not a corporate war loving one. Nt

 

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to Logical (Reply #44)

Mon Mar 7, 2016, 09:36 AM

45. What percentage of Congressional Democrats are real ones?

 

Could you give an estimate?

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to oberliner (Reply #45)

Mon Mar 7, 2016, 10:18 AM

64. The number appears vanishingly small

The center right has nearly the entire party structure at this point.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to oberliner (Reply #29)

Mon Mar 7, 2016, 10:24 AM

67. I'm your huckleberry

I am a registered democrat and my ideals more closely align with them. It's funny how some people are quick to point out that Sanders was registered as an independent (like that's a bad thing) while not mentioning that HRC was actually a republican at one point, then a moderate democrat, then supposedly progressive. In the end, I could care less about party affiliation. What matters is the person. Who they are, what they've done, and what they stand for. I'm not going to be a sheep and just "support the party." If that puts me at odds with an increasing right of center democratic party, then so be it.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to casperthegm (Reply #67)

Mon Mar 7, 2016, 10:40 AM

72. Understood

 

I was really just posing this question as a parody of the question in the OP - which I find to be silly.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to quantumjunkie (Original post)

Mon Mar 7, 2016, 08:42 AM

30. More navel-gazing.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to quantumjunkie (Original post)

Mon Mar 7, 2016, 08:50 AM

35. "this result has caused the republican party to go even more to-the-right"

I disagree with that conclusion. While I concur it's evident both parties have shifted to the right, I don't think it's a matter of the shifting of the Democratic Party pushing the R's further right.

The D party has shifted further to the right because it's increasingly beholden to corporate money, and the DNC takes progressive voters for granted because in a two-party system what other viable choice do we have? Also, to some degree, the rightward shift of the R party is dragging the D along with it in an effort to capture the center.

The R party has shifted to the right because they've crafted a rightwing ideology to manipulate and hold onto their voting base. Decades of Faux news and talk radio have relentlessly pounded home an ideology tying Christian identity politics to trickle down economics and jingoistic patriotism. They've convinced people their religion is under assault and their country is being taken over by muslims, immigrants, sexual deviants, socialists, and libruls.

All of this has shifted the center rightward. The Democratic Party leadership and prominent politicians like Hillary Clinton are part of that shift, and they've carried a big chunk of Democratic voters along for the ride. I think most of them aren't any more aware of this shift than the proverbial frog in a slowly warming (and eventually boiling) pot of water.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to Martin Eden (Reply #35)

Mon Mar 7, 2016, 09:39 AM

46. When did this shift begin?

 

Who was the last Democratic presidential candidate who was left-wing?

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to oberliner (Reply #46)

Mon Mar 7, 2016, 10:21 AM

65. It began in earnest with the "Reagan Democrats"

FDR set the standard for what you refer to as the "Left Wing" Democratic Party. LBJ carried that forward, and George McGovern was the last "Left wing" candidate to win the party's nomination.

There are no absolutes and most things are a matter of degree. Every candidate is a bit of a mixed bag, and even establishment corporate Democrats like Hillary Clinton embrace some "Left wing" policies. But the trend has definitely been rightward. Bill Clinton with his Third Way triangulation was a big part of that shift. Hillary has had to craft her rhetoric to appeal to the Left in this primary battle, but she remains very much an establishment neoliberal Democrat tied to Wall Street.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to Martin Eden (Reply #65)

Mon Mar 7, 2016, 10:42 AM

73. So the Democratic Party has been right wing since after McGovern?

 

That's a really long time.

My personal view is that Hillary and Bernie are actually pretty similar on most issues especially in relation to the positions of the Republicans.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to oberliner (Reply #73)

Mon Mar 7, 2016, 11:23 AM

75. "right wing"

Not sure what you mean by that.

As I said, there are no absolutes; everything is relative. The D party has been shifting rightward since Reagan. I don't think that constitutes "right wing" relative to the "center" as defined in 1980, but it's steadily shifted to the right of FDR/LBJ/McGovern. The economic game has been rigged in favor of the wealthiest, and that isn't solely the product of Republicans ramming through trade agreements and tax codes. D's are complicit. Big Money has a big influence with the legalized bribery in our electoral system. They're too smart to be caught in quid pro quo, but anyone who thinks nothing is expected in return for the large sums they give to political campaigns (or for paid speeches) is astoundingly naÔve.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to Martin Eden (Reply #75)

Mon Mar 7, 2016, 01:09 PM

81. Right of center

 

So you think the Democratic party under President Obama is further to the right than the Democratic party was under President Clinton?

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to oberliner (Reply #81)

Mon Mar 7, 2016, 02:33 PM

82. I don't think Obama is to the right of Bill Clinton, tho he's far from the progressive we hoped for

... and Hillary is definitely to the right of Obama. I think the party overall has drifted to the right in the complicity I pointed out in my last post. In the 2014 midterms many Dem candidates tried their best to distance themselves from Obama, and were soundly defeated at the polls. Voters on the Left stayed away in droves, and Republican-lite candidates won't steal many votes from the real thing.

DWS chairing the DNC does not indicate any change in that direction.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to Martin Eden (Reply #82)

Mon Mar 7, 2016, 06:02 PM

87. So you think we have a more left-wing president than the 1990s but a more right-wing party?

 

Based on the recent Congressional election results?

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to oberliner (Reply #87)

Mon Mar 7, 2016, 07:12 PM

96. I wouldn't call Obama Left Wing.

The Democratic National Committee and those they work to nominate have, overall, shifted to the right over the last 35+ years.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to quantumjunkie (Original post)

Mon Mar 7, 2016, 09:50 AM

49. I worked on obama campaigns starting with his senate run....

 

I am a progressive liberal democrat thats been involved in politics for over 45 years and expect to remain so...and I support Hillary because she is a leader and has faced the devil time and time again.....no conscientious objector or pacifist in her nature...I see her as the candidate BEST to WIN in the general election by overwhelming margins in spite of sanders supporters constant threats of not supporting her....if they hate america that much to let conservatives have the run of it....I feel sorry for them

has nothing to do with center-right...center-left...left....or whatever ....if you want conservatives to screw our world up more....you can.....I will not

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to beachbum bob (Reply #49)

Mon Mar 7, 2016, 09:54 AM

51. What 2 presidents wanted to cut Social Security?

Clinton1 (who also wanted to privatize it)

Obama (with Chained CPI)

**************

But republicans stopped them. How backasswards is THAT?

Just one example.

We are against Hillary because she IS conservative. But like Clinton1 & Obama, she is running as a progressive.

This has to stop.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to quantumjunkie (Original post)

Mon Mar 7, 2016, 09:54 AM

50. Are you kidding?

I am a liberal...as liberal as Bernie Sanders. I also see the Supreme Court is being the most important thing because unless we get back the Congress nothing else can be accomplished. I think we have a good shot at the Senate...really great young liberal running here in Ohio...but I would vote for Strickland should he win the primary. Why? he may be blue dogish but he is a Democrat and would shift the Senate to the Democrats. These are the things we need to think of...I do not believe Bernie can win. There is a reason one of the Koch brothers wrote an oped praising Bernie and that the right has attacked Hillary non-stop...she can win, and we need her to...she is probably less liberal than I am...so was pres. Obama but I would take him over McCain or Romney any day. Should the GOP get in ...you can kiss social security goodbye as well as medicare...and a woman's right to choose and count on war as well as dirty drinking water. All you Bernie folks attacking Hillary are only helping the Republicans.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to Demsrule86 (Reply #50)

Mon Mar 7, 2016, 10:29 AM

69. Agree with everything you just said. Thanks.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to quantumjunkie (Original post)

Mon Mar 7, 2016, 09:58 AM

53. Idealism and pragmatism are not mutually exclusive

Idealism and pragmatism are not mutually exclusive and a reasonable adult doesn't let one be the enemy of the other.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to quantumjunkie (Original post)

Mon Mar 7, 2016, 09:58 AM

54. I'm not into labels

but I do know that I'm not a right wing, racist bigot. How's that for an answer? I'm a Democrat and that encompasses quite a bit of territory.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to quantumjunkie (Original post)

Mon Mar 7, 2016, 09:59 AM

55. I stand with President Obama on most issues,

except that I strongly oppose the death penalty and support decriminalization of drugs. And on Citizens United I stand with the ACLU. Does that make me "center right"?

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to quantumjunkie (Original post)

Mon Mar 7, 2016, 10:03 AM

57. I was wondering when I would encounter the first purity post today. It took 4 minutes.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to quantumjunkie (Original post)

Mon Mar 7, 2016, 10:04 AM

58. Why is this important?

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to quantumjunkie (Original post)

Mon Mar 7, 2016, 10:11 AM

59. Pfffffffft...

I'm a Hillary supporter, and I'll put my liberal creds up against ANYONE here, ANY TIME.

What a self-righteous, disingenuous crock.

So tired of this "holier than thou" nonsense.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to Bobbie Jo (Reply #59)


Response to Name removed (Reply #70)

Mon Mar 7, 2016, 10:43 AM

74. And who are you, exactly?

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to quantumjunkie (Original post)

Mon Mar 7, 2016, 10:23 AM

66. Nope, they're all Progressives. Dumb war hawkish, Wall Street/banksters friendly, bad trade deal...

 

Progressives. It's a mouthful to say, so they shorten it to Progressive. If they were right of center, they would proudly claim they are Third Wayers: Republicans who got the social issues right.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to quantumjunkie (Original post)

Mon Mar 7, 2016, 10:27 AM

68. No, I'm a liberal who believes in capitalism

 

And I don't consider Clinton to be a centrist by any means. I guess every Dem politician is a centrist if you're comparing it to socialism. But that's the wrong metric. Clinton's actual record is quite liberal. More liberal than Obama and Bill, in fact.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to MaggieD (Reply #68)

Mon Mar 7, 2016, 02:48 PM

83. The thing is that America is so far to the right

 

That what is right wing in most of the world is "center-left" here.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to quantumjunkie (Original post)

Mon Mar 7, 2016, 10:31 AM

71. I think they view themselves as Hillary supporters

 

first and foremost, and if Hillary were more progressive than the candidate she was running against, they would be debating from that POV

everything I have read and heard is that it seems to be more about Hillary than any ideology or movement they back.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to boythayer (Reply #71)

Mon Mar 7, 2016, 06:05 PM

90. This is absolute nonsense

There are several of us who were Obama supporters in 2008 - it obviously wasn't about Hillary then.

I find it ironic that any Bernie supporter would even say this, given the way many here have given godlike status to Bernie.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to quantumjunkie (Original post)

Mon Mar 7, 2016, 11:33 AM

76. What do you consider "Center Right?"

 

My Republican relatives think I'm a communist.

Some here think I'm a little to the right of Gen Franco.

I support civil rights and affirmative action. I oppose "reparations" and support programs to remediate impoverished black communities.

I support aggressive progressive taxation. I support massive investment in infrastructure and public support of science (like increasing NASA's budget 10-fold.

I support a transformative education system with high-quality trade education.

I support universal health coverage (with very low out-of-pocket)

I support massive investments in green energy and aggressive carbon taxes.

I favor a strong national defense (though with less money in it than now), and less foreign intervention (though I do support assisting allies, when appropriate)

I support public funding of the arts.

I'm not much worried about labels, but I certainly don't see any Republicans that share my positions.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to quantumjunkie (Original post)

Mon Mar 7, 2016, 11:36 AM

77. I have extremely progressive social views

pro-choice, marriage and gender equality for example. But I am pro-military (being a retired Navy vet) and pro-2A. So you tell me what that means.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to quantumjunkie (Original post)

Mon Mar 7, 2016, 02:51 PM

84. What a presumptive question

Why do Bernie supporters assume that Hillary supporters are uninformed/suffering from Stockholm Syndrome/closet conservatives, whatever?

Bernie supporters are not all alike. He draws from Green Party types to former Rand Paul fans.

Hillary supporters are not alike either. Her coalition is pretty broad. In fact, broader than Sanders since she gets more ethnic/racial minority support.

As for me, I'm pretty progressive.
I'm pro-choice.
Anti-gun and pro-gun control.
Pro gay rights and marriage equality.
Separation of church and state.
Welcoming of minority religions.
Vehemently anti-racism
Strongly feminist.
I don't like war, and find Hillary too hawkish for my taste, and Bernie too uninformed on foreign affairs.
I believe that income inequality is a big issue. I don't believe Bernie will be able to do much about it, since I think he is not nuanced enough in his perspectives. His vote against TARP, for example, while ideologically pure, suggests a level of irresponsibility for the real-life consequences of an economy in free fall, that is almost on par with Ted Cruz's irresponsible shutdown of government (I'm not saying he's otherwise as bad as Cruz). I would like to see single payer healthcare, but I think it is too late in history - it should have been started after WWII. Given the complexities of healthcare these days, the fact that the healthcare industry is a huge employer, and the political realities of this nation, I believe that Hillary's incremental approach to achieving universal healthcare is more realistic. Many other countries achieve universal healthcare through systems similar to the ACA, so it's doable, and probably more realistic.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to quantumjunkie (Original post)

Mon Mar 7, 2016, 02:51 PM

85. A lot of Bernie supporters are very pro-charter school.

Some have trashed unions. I find there are all kinds of conservative views among a broad spectrum of both candidates' supporters. Not everyone supports someone because all of their views line up with a candidate.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to quantumjunkie (Original post)

Mon Mar 7, 2016, 05:37 PM

86. Center???

You are far, far too kind.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to quantumjunkie (Original post)

Mon Mar 7, 2016, 06:04 PM

89. Her supporters are "left-leaning Democrats"?



Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to quantumjunkie (Original post)

Mon Mar 7, 2016, 06:07 PM

91. Welcome back and bless your little pea brain. Liberal. Very very liberal. nt

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to quantumjunkie (Original post)

Mon Mar 7, 2016, 06:08 PM

92. You are what you vote for. Clinton is right wing

 

So I'd say they're right wingers.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to quantumjunkie (Original post)

Mon Mar 7, 2016, 06:11 PM

94. Is this one of those threads used to call out people so you can put them on ignore? n/t

 

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to quantumjunkie (Original post)

Fri Mar 18, 2016, 11:24 PM

97. Kicked for relevance.

 

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink

Reply to this thread