2016 Postmortem
Related: About this forumMrs. Clinton, please proceed.....
Eventually, if not sooner, people will figure out all you do is misstate or
lie on Sanders' votes and positions...
Polls show that most people do not trust Hillary Clinton. Polls
show most people trust Bernie Sanders.
nadinbrzezinski
(154,021 posts)They are sources. And the immigration part will not go well
d_legendary1
(2,586 posts)My homie doesn't like the fact that she's all law and order when it comes to asylum for children and people like his father who came here without papers looking to make a living. He was actually screwed over by Bubba when the Congress removed the 7 years naturalization law that would have guaranteed his family permanent residency. They eventually became residents but it was a long and expensive road they had to walk.
MisterP
(23,730 posts)Nite Owl
(11,303 posts)agreeing to these debates.
MisterP
(23,730 posts)by people who tell her she's just beat both the Roosevelts in rhetoric and her husband in charisma, and that she's gonna win every state from here on out
TheBlackAdder
(29,981 posts)morningfog
(18,115 posts)Good job Bernie making the debates happen.
Betty Karlson
(7,231 posts)CoffeeCat
(24,411 posts)I mean, my God--really, this is stupidity.
She lied about Bernie not supporting the auto bailout and misrepresented his rejection of the Wall Street bailout. Many came out, even some Senators, to say that Clinton was being dishonest.
The media even said she was misrepresenting!
Her dishonesty may have played a part in her MI loss.
Now, she's lying again. Linking Bernie to the Minutemen, and also to the Koch Brothers.
I say, she's beyond help. Let her lie. Let her be reckless and act as if life ends at the end of this debate.
She fails to understand (again) that people will analyze her lies and call her out on them--and Bernie will be campaigning and correct her lies. And she will incur damage for lying.
Hillary thinks that scoring 5 points in a debate by hitting her hard is really cool---even though she's going to be slammed as a dishonest viper for the next 48 hours as her words are debunked.
She's nutty.
TheProgressive
(1,656 posts)CoffeeCat
(24,411 posts)and also that her negatives are rising and her approvals are decreasing.
I think people are experiencing some buyer's remorse with HRC. I think there's a spark of buyer's remorse, but when she lies and attacks Bernie with incendiary attacks--linking him to the Minutemen and the Koch Brothers--she's turning that into a fire.
She all ready has high trustworthy numbers. If she continues to act like a jerk--and unleash these bizarre attacks--she's going to go from untrustworthy to disliked.
I don't think Democrats will stand for her lying like that.
fbc
(1,668 posts)I can only guess that she thinks she scores points by pretending to have some gotcha that gets her supporters in the audience to cheer for a few moments, even though it's obviously BS.
Jarqui
(10,925 posts)She started to do it more and more.
Then the videos on lying and flip-flopping came out.
Then the medias started speaking out.
They hit her tonight on lying to the mother of a Benghazi victim.
People do not like being lied to. And a bunch will let the liar know it.
passiveporcupine
(8,175 posts)we are not in the age of only TV and newspapers for news any more. Most young people get their news online. And the internet is a useful tool for finding out the truth. She just keeps thinking because the big media are behind her, she can say anything and get away with it.
Betty Karlson
(7,231 posts)As usual, Hillary Clinton is the last to realise that times have changed (see also: gay rights, TPP, et alii...)
madokie
(51,076 posts)to know what kind of a person she is. I've known many cacklers in my day, both women and men and they're all the same. All bluster no substance
pdsimdars
(6,007 posts)Merryland
(1,134 posts)fbc
(1,668 posts)But she's not. She's just continuing the same rambling non-answers in a louder voice.
greiner3
(5,214 posts)Are really insecure and will lash out when brought to task.
Hell Hath No Fury
(16,327 posts)It was her campaign bullshit that pushed me into the O camp finally. I cannot imagine that there are not others having the same response now.
SoapBox
(18,791 posts)And it's lying.
Cassiopeia
(2,603 posts)That single issue is personal gain. Wealth, power, friends in high places, and elitism. Hillary is for the Clinton brand and nothing more. Anything will be said or done to further the goals of personal wealth.
Sorry Hillary, it's not us, it's you, and I think we're about done with you and your kind.
InAbLuEsTaTe
(25,518 posts)Bernie & Elizabeth 2016!!!

TeeYiYi
(8,028 posts)Her unhinged anger is palpable.
I had a visceral response to her disturbed ramblings but the word I would choose to describe her would get my post hidden.
I'll close by saying that I feel sorry for her.
TYY
TheProgressive
(1,656 posts)I prefer the cool,calm, collective, talk intelligently and carry a big stick (channeling T. Roosevelt) president...
tabasco
(22,974 posts)but he is an admirable figure.
Carolina
(6,960 posts)exactly and I cannot say how I really feel, using the words I'd like to, either.
The only difference is I have no sympathy for her whatsoever. Raw ambition for power is what guides her and watching her lose it again (like 2008) feels good.
She should have simply retired and enjoyed being a grandmother or used her name and resources to do something for people akin to Jimmy Carter and Habitat for Humanity.
TeeYiYi
(8,028 posts)...is in limited supply. I think her campaign officially jumped the shark for me, when she attempted to attribute the 'meaning' of her 'superpredator' gaff to 'vicious drug cartels.' Her lies have no boundaries.
She appears to be in the process of spontaneous combustion... imploding before our very eyes.
TYY
passiveporcupine
(8,175 posts)Seriously...she has fought for women's rights her whole life and for her, breaking this glass ceiling is not only a personal goal, but it makes her feel like she won the gold ring...she gets to be honored as the first woman POTUS forever.
Carolina
(6,960 posts)She has given speeches and talked a lot about women's rights. But fight for them? No.
Here's her record:
HRC rode Bill's coat tails to power. He had the intellect (Georgetown Univ, Rhodes Scholar, Yale Law), charisma, gift of gab and natural ability to connect with people. She was smart, too (Wellesley, Yale Law) like many, many woman from Seven Sister/Ivy League schools. After law school, she went to DC to work on the Nixon impeachment committee, but her stint there did not last long because, among other reasons, she did not pass the DC bar. She tells the story that she went to work for the Children's Defense Fund (CDF) founded by Marian Wright Edelman as evidence of her advocacy for children and that's true... 30 years ago. But recall that Marians husband, Peter Edelman who became Bill Clintons Assistant Secretary of Health and Human Services, resigned in protest over the 1996 Personal Responsibility and Work Opportunity Act better known as Welfare Reform because of the dire effects it would have on the poor, especially women and children.
Anyway, back to the narrative. After leaving DC, what did HRC do? She ran off to Arkansas! Yes, this dynamo of feminism whom so many women from my generation say could have done anything, been anything on her own
did not go back to her native Chicago, did not go back to New England (MA, CT) where she was educated. No, she ran off to Arkansas. She chased after Bill because she recognized his rising star. He had the talent to go along with the intellect. He had earned and held leadership positions nearly all his life: high school (Boys State) and college (class president for 2 years, etc.). He became Governor, chaired the National Governors Association and finally became POTUS. It was only through him that she was introduced to the nation and even then, it was rocky because of her abrasive remarks about baking cookies, nothing about helping women.
When she ran for POTUS in 2008, she cited her 20 years of experience. Really? First Lady of AK for 12 years and FLOTUS for 8 years. Oh, and she was a corporate lawyer at the Rose Law Firm where her client was Walmart that champion of women and children and where she relied heavily on the counsel of Vince Foster.
She could never have carpet bagged her way to the NY Senate seat had she not been FLOTUS. And once in the Senate, what did she DO? What legislation or amendments to legislation illustrate her initiative or activism on behalf of women and children. The aye votes for IWR, the Patriot Acts I & II and Bush's Bankruptcy Bill sure helped women
Then there was her abysmal management and nasty conduct during the 2008 primary campaign. She had the money, she had the name, she was entitled, she was "in it to win it" and so arrogant that she claimed it would be over by Super Tuesday. But when it wasn't and she was losing, she resorted to the gutter. She praised McCain and derided Obama as someone who only gave pretty speeches. And when the Party urged her to bow out gracefully, she said that she was going to stay in the race through the CA primary because "you never know... remember Bobby Kennedy..." Her insinuation (a veiled wish?) that Obama might be assassinated like RFK was beyond classless and tasteless. It was evil (Google Keith Olbermann on that atrocity). And when she finally, gracelessly bowed out, she did so on condition that the Obama organization and DNC pay off her campaign debt... just like her Wall Street benefactors who f--- things up, then expect others to pay for the disaster they created.
On to SOS, where I think Obama selected her because he'd been inspired by Lincoln's team of rivals and wanted to keep her busy and away. In so doing, she couldn't be a quasi-backbencher sniping at him. Yet, in the end, she was also terrible in that position, too. Her Honduras regime change led many women and children, some alone, to flee the disaster that nation subsequently became. Same with Libya and Syria. HRC, the consummate pro-MIC corporatist, never saw a war she didn't like. And last I checked, war is not good for women, children or men!
Hillary is nothing, and would have been nothing, without powerful men around or behind her. Her experience is largely derived from having married Bill; and her judgment when she has wielded power has been awful.
She is also part of the Clinton legacy (the two for one, the 8 years of reflected experience derived from him). She helped found the DLC and fully supported: NAFTA, the Telecommunications Bill of 1996, Welfare Reform (not), and overturning Glass-Steagall. She and Bill kept Alan Greenspan at the Fed, placed the then Mr. Goldman Sucks himself Robert Reuben as head of Treasury and hired as financial advisor that abominable Wall Streeter Larry Summers (who lost a $1.8 billion from Harvard's endowment!). This Clinton triumvirate wrecked the economy for main street, but saved Wall Street, especially Goldman-Sachs.

But we, the people (the little people, lots of women), reaped the whirlwind of that 1999 Commodities Modernization Act which ended Glass-Steagall and for which every repuke in the Senate voted AYE while every Dem -- save one -- voted NAY. Bill signed it into law anyway, paying no heed to the canary-in-the-mine Dems who said that this dastardly new law would lead to disaster 10 years hence. Sure enough it did, harming women and families throughout the land. And Wall Street, Hillary's BFF, continues to be such a benefactor for women
This is HRC's history, so please tell me, what she has DONE, how she has fought for women all her life? What is this record she always harkens back to in her me, me, me, mine, mine, mine debate responses? She's in it for herself, she plays sexist gender politics, she lies about her alleged record, she changes her mind with the political winds, she panders, she pads her pockets... she is just awful!
passiveporcupine
(8,175 posts)I guess I should have said...she has "claimed" to fight for women and children her whole life.
She actually has helped more women and children since starting her foundation, but they are in other countries. And while in the white house as FLOTUS, she did help get CHIP passed. But I do agree with your assessment and have said much of what you've said here, before.
marions ghost
(19,841 posts)and because women HAVE been kept down and had a hard time in just about every occupation you want to name-- she gets significant support for her toughness. But she had to sell her soul.
Nothing can make up for where she has gone dead wrong in the past--even if she felt she had to do it.
veronique25
(74 posts)why is hillary incapable of not wasting time misrepresenting bernie's principle; compassion; life-time political perseverence, and decent and honest commitment to social, economic, and cultural equality.
i don't think she's a bad person, but why does she foolishly attack bernie's character and commitment, when he only attacks her judgments, and not her motives.
i think america is exhausted with decades of never-ending clinton dramas.
hillary voters, come on over!
we welcome you!
win or lose, bernie's america rules!
"the agony of democracy is persuading people to vote for their best interests."
-- Thomas Jefferson
appalachiablue
(44,187 posts)silvershadow
(10,336 posts)turbinetree
(27,735 posts)on her specific plans with the shysters and criminals that brought this country and damn near the world to its proverbial knees----------------that's what I want to know, and I want to know if she would re-open these economic disaster " trade deals", because I know my candidate will, he said so, and has not backed off on that position of principles one iota--------------I don't trust her one bit-------------
Honk--------------for a political revolution Bernie 2016
passiveporcupine
(8,175 posts)when she was Senator, and she worked hard for them after 9/11.
Well, if she is POTUS, they will still be her constituents and I'm confident she will work hard for them again.
turbinetree
(27,735 posts)I forgot corporations and oligarchies and Super Pacs are people too, my big mistake. I'm not even on the same playing field, my measly $24 dollars couldn't even buy a slice a dried up old bread behind those closed doors. What was I thinking, I thought that I would be able to get the jam and butter also.............
I must have had a moment of 47% is-um, flashing through my "have not" body...............I know what I can do, I can at least donate to "progressives", they will attempt to let me have my voice be heard, and it will not be behind closed doors................
she made me see the light ...........
I still don't trust her................................
Honk------------------for a political revolution Bernie
lob1
(3,820 posts)litlbilly
(2,227 posts)Bernblu
(441 posts)The standard OP of the Clintons is instead of running on the your own issues and positions you misrepresent your opponent's positions and actions in the hope that it will stick with low information voters.
Hillary is believer in neoliberalism (open markets with little regulation and "free" trade). Because she feels she cannot in the current political environment win espousing neoliberalism she has to pretend to be "progressive" while attacking
Bernie with ridiculous misrepresentations and distortions of his record on the auto-bailout and the minutemen. I would respect Hillary if she stood up and defended her true positions and made the case for neoliberalism. Then we could have a real debate.
BeanMusical
(4,389 posts)pdsimdars
(6,007 posts)She sees how the public loves Bernie and knows she can never have that, like when he got the warm standing ovation at the end of the debate. She knows she is incapable of having a relationship with the general public like that.
pdsimdars
(6,007 posts)I think that will be Tulsi Gabbard. After 2 Bernie terms as President with Tulsi as VP, she will run for President and become the first woman president.
Octafish
(55,745 posts)Guaranteed.
Ivan Kaputski
(528 posts)
bobthedrummer
(26,083 posts)Jackson Stephens and his son Warren and a topic we have discussed for many years here.
Clintons, Contras and Cocaine (Jeffrey St. Clair-Alexander Cockburn March 11, 2016 CounterPunch)
"Just as the BCCI trail heads back towards Arkansas and a prime cash register for the Clintons, so too does a long-running and explosive scandal within the state, involving money-laundering, drug-running and support for right-wing insurgents backed by the CIA."
http://www.counterpunch.org/2016/03/11/clintons-contras-and-cocaine
I know what has happened to so many people and their families that have tried to organize workers in places like Mexico and the Southern Cone- so does Bernie.
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