That was just.... WOW.

[basselope]

I think she just poked the bear one too many times.

The flailing and lies that Clinton had to resort to tonight were just astounding. Bernie sided with the Minute Men? TARP was a success and we got paid back??? She doesn't even understand HOW the dang thing worked.

Let's just hit the TARP nonsense. We LOST MONEY ON TARP. Why? We spent 700B to BUY NON VOTING SHARES in these companies. We ended up selling all that stock for a total of 715.5B 6 years later. But, wait Basselope, you said we lost money.. what is wrong with your math 715.5-700= a 15.5 billion dollar PROFIT.. right??

Well.. small itty, bitty problem. That 700B added to the deficit, thus the debt. And we PAY INTEREST on that debt. About 2.43% (google it). So in the first year of TARP (before a single share was sold) TARP now cost 717 Billion dollars. I am not sure at exactly what rate we divested our interest in the companies, but it doesn't matter. We were already losing money in year one. We probably lost close to 60 BILLION by the time the 6 years was up due to interest charges.

It was very interesting to watch.. but there was a moment in that debate where you could see the look in Sanders' eyes. Enough was enough. When she started with the Minute Man crap.. he HAD IT. And from that moment forward, he owned her. Basically.. compare our records and you will have your answer. The last thing Clinton needs is anyone comparing her record to Sanders.

From that moment on, she was completely thrown off, because she was feeling the Bern!

5 Million raised in last 24 hours! A complete crushing at the debate.

[ebayfool]

1. Kicked & rec'd! Had to work so I'm looking for a vid or replay ...

Sounds like I missed a big one! And reading your take is making me want it more - awesome post!

[Segami]

2. Here is a link for the FULL debate....

[ebayfool]

6. TY Segami! Did me a solid :) n/t

[glinda]

8. Bernie has a new suit.

[Fearless]

16. Can I just put out there

That their Spanish to English dubbed translator is TERRIBLE!

[Myrina]

27. Is there a version that has him only?

I just can't stand the condescendence wafting off of her.

[SCantiGOP]

65. It's not just......WOW

??

[ChiciB1]

80. Thanks For This, Appreciate It! I Can't Stand Hearing Her Voice, Not Trying To

be mean, it just grates on me. Has nothing to do with whether I support her or not. Not something I can explain, but I'm sure many don't like Bernie's either.

So thanks again, I'll lower the volume.

[Major Hogwash]

89. Thanks, I think everyone should watch this particular debate.

If you still think Hillary cares about you after watching this video, well, I'm sorry to disabuse you of that notion.

[2banon]

95. Thanks Segami, I missed it too..

[2banon]

96. Oh Drat! The video has been "removed by it's owner" "Sorry About that"

Bummer. I wonder if there's another link?

[Coincidence]

4. Here an exclusive of the unofficial soundtrack...

[ebayfool]

5. ### snicker ### n/t

[glinda]

9. hahahaha....I know

[Hoyt]

3. Calculate where we might well have ended up without that stimulus.

[bettyellen]

7. That is the bigger picture. The economy was going over a cliff.

[kristopher]

12. What makes you think that is the only plan that would work?

It was disaster capitalism at it's finest.

[bettyellen]

28. Did I say that? Nope. Did you say there was a better plan waiting in the wings that would have

halted the recession quickly?
You know many people think the bailout was a gift and not a loan that was repaid? Where do they get these crazy ideas?

[Dustlawyer]

76. That was just the part they told us about. The Fed gave them free money at no interest

to play with on top of TARP. There was an article posted here a couple of weeks ago about it.

Remember after they got the TARP money they paid everyone their big bonuses despite the huge losses they racked up? They had a lavish party, the whole works. Where I work you don't get any bonus unless you made money for your employer.

They don't live in the real world, that's for sure!

[Cobalt Violet]

20. Hello, It did go over a cliff for working poor people. And they've done nothing about that.

And now we have Bernie as our championship.

[bettyellen]

29. Okay, the Obama recovery never happened. Sure thing, Violet.

[Cobalt Violet]

30. No it didn't trickle down. Never does. Never will.

Only some people recovered.

[Enthusiast]

32. You nailed it, Cobalt Violet! That's why so many of us support Bernie.

Enough is enough!

[pangaia]

41. It actually DOES trickle down.

Only, by the time it gets here it is known as golden showers.

[rhett o rick]

88. They had a gun to the head of the economy and said if we didn't pay up they'd kill

the economy. And our so-called representatives paid and then forgave them. We had regulations in place to prevent them from gambling our money, OUR MONEY away and then asking us to reimburse them. They changed the regulations like Glass-Steigell. It was the biggest wealth transfer in history. $5 trillion dollars moved from the lower classes to the Wealthy and the Clintons managed to do very well.

[basselope]

13. The stimulus and TARP are 2 different things.

[JDPriestly]

14. The stimulus is different from the bail-out.

The TARP bail-out was not properly negotiated.

The price for the bail-out should have been that the banks would give relief to homeowners in a big way and that the bonuses and pay of the bankers would be seriously reduced for a long time.

In exchange for the TARP, the bankers also should have been required to undergo a complete investigation about what happened, a public investigation as to why the banks were broke.

A lot of Americans do not understand how banking works, what the responsibilities of the bankers and mortgage lenders were when they were handing out loans to people who would never be able to repay them.


The TARP was too quickly and too leniently passed. The bankers should have paid a much larger price for getting that money -- not all of it in the form of the interest rate.

Bernie was right to vote against it.

It isn't that no TARP was an option. It's that the TARP that passed was a give-away to the bankers.

When you have the goods on the opposing party in a negotiation, you try to get what you want. That did not happen when the TARP was negotiated.

[NJCher]

17. yep

the typical deal made by our bought-and-paid-for Congressional representatives and a president who is all too willing to go along with big business.


Cher

[padfun]

42. That president would be Bush the lesser

"The Troubled Asset Relief Program (TARP) is a program of the United States government to purchase assets and equity from financial institutions to strengthen its financial sector that was signed into law by U.S. President George W. Bush on October 3, 2008. "

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Troubled_Asset_Relief_Program

[Enthusiast]

33. Yooge plus one!

[Hoyt]

36. I don't disagree. In truth, I think the government was really scared that the crud had hit the fan.

Can you imagine trying to maintain some kind of order in this country with no one trusting anyone else -- not to mention the greed. Heck, all the gun nuts would have been shooting people for their food and gold.

But, I do believe the bankers paid back most of the money and I think we learned something if it happens again.

[Paulie]

79. We defiantly learned moral hazard

Is a fantasy.

LTCM lead the way...

[Gore1FL]

84. If it happens again, it's because the banks remained too big to fail and we failed to regulate.

Failure to do those things would/will be tragic.

[paleotn]

31. I think you mean TARP, not stimulus...

...and I agree with you on this one. I hated TARP as much as anyone, but God knows where the US economy would be if we'd let the vast spiderweb of exposure and interdependence unravel. For awhile there no one wanted to loan money to anyone for any term at any interest rate. Money markets LOST money. Commercial paper markets froze up. The Great Depression may have looked mild in comparison. Bank runs anyone or worse? A lot of folks really don't understand that.

[AtheistCrusader]

46. By all means, let's just kick the can down the road and let the banks get bigger.

In fact, let's just let a bank run the White House and save ourselves the pretense.

[merrily]

56. Not if TARP money had been given to Main Street in the right way.

Emphasis on the right way.

[AtheistCrusader]

45. Like Iceland?

[bvf]

48. Isn't that where bankers actually go to jail? n/t

[AtheistCrusader]

51. Yup.

Where they belong.

[merrily]

53. The stimulus should have been as big as the TARP and the TARP should not have happened.

Largest transfer of wealth to the wealthy in human history, while Main Street was losing its homes, thanks to Bubba and the people who got handed the TARP.

You should be ashamed of yourself for trying to pass off the stimulus as the TARP.

[Betty Karlson]

10. K&R for truth and exposure.

[Cassiopeia]

11. Hillary understands how everything works

especially how to work low info voters.

Just look at some of the most prominent posters here to see how it works. She knows her audience and she does a mediocre job of playing to them. However, it doesn't matter, she knows her fans and the media will pick up where she failed and spin it.

[zentrum]

15. +1

[MJJP21]

18. No loss on TARP

You claim the loss came from interest charges. To whom did we borrow the money?
The answer is the FED. The FED is us (United States). Despite what politicians , talking heads on tv etc say the US doesn't borrow money from anyone , not the Russians not the Chinese and there isn't anyone that can for close on the US. So the US did not lose money on TARP as it is simply money going from one pocket into another.

[Art_from_Ark]

19. Treasuries are essentially loans made to Uncle Sam.

And China owns a bunch of Treasuries.

[basselope]

23. Not exactly true...

1/3 of the US debt is foreign owned http://www.forbes.com/sites/mikepatton/2014/10/28/who-owns-the-most-u-s-debt/

EVEN taking 1/3 of the interest that we paid on the 700B.. TARP is STILL a money loser.


But, that analysis isn't even correct. Even if you owe money to yourself, you still must calculate the interest in any calculation of profit/loss.

Let's say you have a 401K with 100K in it. You can borrow that money at any time and pay it back with interest. You are borrowing from yourself.

So you borrow 100K at 5% interest b/c you found a house you think you can flip.

It winds up taking you 6 years to complete the work on the house and get it sold. You wind up selling it (after fees and taxes) for a total of 120K. Woohoo.. a 20% gain, right?

Not really. Because you owe 130K to your 401K, which means you now have to take all the money you sold the house for PLUS an additional 10K to pay back your 401K.

You are now (as far as your personal bank account is concerned) worse off than you were before you started. Your 401K is likely right where it would have been b/c the interest calculation is based on what it is expected to earn each year.

THAT is what happened with TARP.

We got a PALTRY .6% ROI and spent 2.4% per year to achieve it.. so we basically lost 1.8% each year of TARP.

[BillZBubb]

26. Holy crap. I'd never want you giving me investment advice!

You need to do some reading on how the Fed works.

When US treasury bonds are sold, who must make the interest and principle payments on them?

[merrily]

59. I'll take a guess: The same people who pay it when the US borrows from China?

[Festivito]

37. The national debt is mostly owned by Americans. Recently, some, some, by China.

American Social Security owns a lot of it.
Banks offer CDs based on it.
We used to buy and still can buy US Savings Bonds.
Rich Americans park their money in our debt.

If you have seen "The Big Short" it does not describe a trade deficit with China that lead to China investing in that movie's reveal of housing bank products also lead to China realizing the banks were offering a ponzi scheme and so we taxpayers gave China some ownership of our American debt in trade for the bad bank products. That's the only reason China has some of our debt.

Our debt is still mostly owned by individual Americans.

[INdemo]

43. When the Tarp funds were repaid much of the money was

repaid with other government loans,similar to Small Business type loans. Some of the Tarp funds were used by some banks to buy smaller failing Banks. Wells Fargo Bank purchased Wachovia Bank which was a known Money Laundering Institution that earned millions from such practices.They later paid fines for those illegal practices but never went to court.

http://www.theguardian.com/world/2011/apr/03/us-bank-mexico-drug-gangs

[Aerows]

21. All I have to say is this:

"Do not meddle in the affairs of Dragons, for you are crunchy and taste good with ketchup!"

It appears that Hillary has awoken the dragon. Will she get the crown of the Cart King? The one that just wants notice, power and money?

Crown for a cart queen (figuratively)

[B Calm]

22. K&R

[lumberjack_jeff]

25. "In the future, in case you ever wonder, 'Minutemen' is when I decided to kick your ass

Last edited Thu Mar 10, 2016, 06:01 PM - Edit history (1)

[FailureToCommunicate]

35. +1 for a West Wing reference!!

I'd forgotten how much that guy resembles Trump.

[redwitch]

82. great scene!

love the west wing!

[Enthusiast]

34. K&R! This post should have hundreds of recommendations!

[warrprayer]

38. The Hillary campaign...

[gregcrawford]

39. As more and more of these sordid revelations come to light...

... I find it utterly astounding that ANYONE continues to support her. But then, millions support that suppurating boil on the ass of humanity, Donald J. Trump, so delusional devotion is not limited to the low-wattage intellects of the Republican base.

[pdsimdars]

40. TYT did a great job picking their best lines

it was on a video on the home page. It was great. Bernie was on fire.

[NCTraveler]

44. You literally have inaccurate figures...

And blatant falsehoods in your op. It's really getting bad around here. Want to check the fact you are say Clinton lied with her minuteman claim? One of you is lying. That just touches the surface of the falsehoods in your op. 200 recs. it's now par for the course here.

[bvf]

49. Speaking of 200,

Another group around here is about to break the magic 200% threshold of blocks to subs. Probably by the weekend.

[NCTraveler]

54. Not sure what that means.

I think I'm missing something obvious with this one.

[bvf]

77. Yeah, that's probably true. n/t

[NCTraveler]

78. Ok. I was being serious. I'm not sure. Nt

[bvf]

81. A group that has twice as many blocked DU members

as actual subscribers. Ring a bell?

[NCTraveler]

83. Ohh. Got it.

I'm not sure what that connection has to do with anything. Have you seen how the polls come out around here? Lol It simply makes sense.

If that is an issue of great concern to you, go check the op I posted in the Sanders Group that earned me a ban within minutes. Shouldn't be hard, it's my only post in the group.

Sorry I didn't recognize what you were saying. Seems to be a bit off topic.

[bvf]

85. You pointed out the number of recs here

and the figure you used just prompted me to check up on the single most insular group on DU, hands-down.

/OT (better, now?)

[NCTraveler]

86. Didn't know I was ever bad.

Don't get the "better" comment either. What does that have to do with anything? I'm sure there is some connection somewhere. I'm just not following your line of concers. Still don't see the connection or why it rises to a level of importance. Or what it has to do with anything.

Have fun with it.

[bvf]

87. Oh, it's not important at all.

But it certainly is telling, you must admit.

[basselope]

50. Nothing inaccurate at all.

The minuteman claim is a manipulation of reality, at best.

And my numbers are completely correct. here is the big brag from 2014 when they closed the book on TARP. http://money.cnn.com/2014/12/19/news/companies/government-bailouts-end/

None of that considers the INTEREST PAID DURING THE TIME.

Making TARP a big money loser.

[NCTraveler]

52. Your op is blatantly inaccurate.

Would you like for me to provide his minuteman vote? It's beyond simple to find.

[basselope]

62. It's complete BS, b/c it is a tiny piece of much larger legislation.

There was no "minute man" vote.

[NCTraveler]

63. Yes, there was. It's factual.

It's also a clear trend with Sanders and immigration.

[basselope]

66. *SIGH*

Wrong, but whatever.

I can see how desperate the Clintonites are.

Sorry you chose an unelectable candidate

[NCTraveler]

67. No reason to apologize to me.

https://www.bostonglobe.com/news/politics/2016/03/10/hillary-clinton-was-right-about-bernie-sanders-minuteman-militia-vote-but-sanders-now-denies-intent/O69kcEQSuHpueuVCsxXO4L/story.html

You are fighting hard to deny facts. To the point you will deflect with an argument about electability that isn't based in fact either.

[basselope]

68. Your article supports what I said.

Thank you for the link.

[NCTraveler]

69. Love it.

You have made me smile. I find your position here to be impressive.

[basselope]

71. Sure.

You know you have someone corned when they have to tell you how much they are smiling.

Sorry your bubble burst.

[NCTraveler]

73. You are projecting again.

Do you want more links?

Lol

[basselope]

75. Just stating the facts.

So sorry it didn't work out for you.

[great white snark]

55. No need for accuracy when any anti-Hillary remarks gets you into the boorish Bernie bubble.

I'm counting down the seconds for when Hillary is officially our nominee.

[merrily]

57. Postrage is the new poutrage?

[NCTraveler]

60. Not sure what you mean by that.

If it's directed at me, I am currently in possession of zero rage.

Im assumpnig you are defining the falsehoods in the op as "post rage." I might agree but find those assumptions to be weak. I'll hold off on supporting your assumption.

[merrily]

61. Didn't say a word about the OP.

[NCTraveler]

74. .

[rhett o rick]

90. You've done nothing to refute the OP. That's par for the course around here. nm

[NCTraveler]

91. When I posted that last night...

Last edited Fri Mar 11, 2016, 09:57 AM - Edit history (2)

There were four OPs up high in GD. P that directly refute this ops claim. You are well aware of that.

Have a great Friday Rick. Thanks for all you do as a host.

[rhett o rick]

93. Yes I am aware of the attempts at rationalizing not being honest.

What would you expect from a candidate whose only solid position is more profits for Wall Street. The People will win this war and retain our principles while we do it. The days of the oligarchy are numbered.

Oh and tell the guys at your special place that I've retired and enjoying my time off from hosting and think their attempts to ridicule via alerting was childish.

[NCTraveler]

94. Happy Friday Rick. Nt

[warrprayer]

47. 200 recs IS par for the course....

For posts supporting Bernie!
Add mine and a kick for good measure!

[Dont call me Shirley]

58. KnR!

[C Moon]

64. She'll probably continue down this route, in an attempt to make Berine look like he's whining.

[Duval]

70. K&R

[Ivan Kaputski]

72. K & R