Why Is Nothing Ever Bernie Sanders Fault?

[JaneyVee]

Last edited Thu Mar 10, 2016, 09:58 PM - Edit history (2)

Votes for the crime bill. Not his fault.
Votes to deregulate Wall St in 2000. Not his fault.
Votes to protect gun industry. Not his fault.
Votes for Afghan War. Not his fault.
Votes for war funding again and again. Not his fault.
Votes against final auto bailout bill. Not his fault.
Votes against immigration. Not his fault.
Votes for border militia. Not his fault.
Votes against AMBER Alert. Not his fault.
Votes to dump nuclear waste in poor community. Not his fault.
Votes for trillions in F-35 war machines. Not his fault.
Wrote questionable essays in his 30s. Not his fault.
Campaign data breach in IA and NH. Not his fault.
Campaign posing as union members in NV. Not his fault.
Campaign mailers using endorsements he didnt get. Not his fault.
33 pages of FEC campaign violations. Not his fault.
Not resonating with communities of color. Not his fault.
Votes against:

Not his fault?
Etc
Etc
Etc
Etc

On the other hand...

Hillary did not vote for crime bill.
Hillary did not vote to deregulate Wall St.
Hillary did not vote to protect gun industry.
Hillary did not vote against auto bailout.
Hillary did not vote against immigration.
Hillary did not vote for a border militia.
Hillary did not vote to protect rapists from divulging HIV status to victims.
Hillary's campaign has been transparent and free of any campaign shenanigans or scandals.

Would a Bernie presidency be 4 years of never taking personal responsibility?

Edited to add quick example: Bernie votes for Libya, but somehow it's all the fault of the Secretary of State.....who Bernie also voted for.

[Cali_Democrat]

1. Bernie needs to take responsibility for his votes, period. nt

[NWCorona]

3. He has.

[JaneyVee]

6. Has he even admitted his gun votes were bad?

Or did he double down?

[NWCorona]

8. He's stands behind that vote so why should he apologize

I don't agree with everything he says or every vote he's cast but he has explained why he voted the way he did.

[Control-Z]

96. Yup.

Another excuse.

[NWCorona]

101. Are you talking about yourself?

[SCantiGOP]

164. It's a closed loop information system

They allow no dissenting opinion.
Before I knew there was a Sanders forum
I was banned from it.
I was having a discussion with someone with 4 or 5 posts each and suddenly I got a message that I was forever banned by order of the forum moderator. My crime had been to use the M word: I has used a phrase like "and some moron says....." and that was it, I was excommunicated.
The person I had been talking to in the thread sent me a PM saying "bummer man, sorry that happened."

[Control-Z]

191. Wow.

Don't you sound all growed up.

"I know you are but what am I? "

[NWCorona]

194. Not trying to sound all grown up

Just giving what I get

[AlbertCat]

172. Another excuse.

What's Hillary's excuse.... this week?

These aren't excuses, they are REASONS, because it's not as simple as Hillary would have you believe.... because she thinks you're too stupid to get how hodge-podge, junk filled, and complicated bills become going back and forth to committee. Hell, she might not even read them before she votes. As the email investigation is showing, she's pretty lackadaisical even with important classified stuff.
Sanders, not so much.

[TheBlackAdder]

181. They sure sound like votes that the ACLU might support, which I am a member of.

.


Everybody hates civil liberty lawsuits until it is their liberties that are being taken away.

Trying to post this as a rapist OP, when HRC defended a child predator, is quite ironic.


.

[NWCorona]

183. Good point

[bravenak]

17. What about the militiamen vote?

I did not see him say he actually voted for that but I looked it up, he actually voted in favor of the measure. I do not understand that vote and wish he would clarify. I have many brown people in my family..... I find stuff like that depressing.

[damonm]

68. Oh, you mean the vote that told the Border Patrol...

Which never tips off the Mexican government about ANYTHING...
To keep on doing what they've been doing for decades?
THAT "militiamen" vote?

[bravenak]

74. I am sure there was more to it

[Joe the Revelator]

85. Prove it.

[bravenak]

88. Prove my surety? No.

[Joe the Revelator]

94. Should be easy. If you're so sure.

[bravenak]

95. I do not need to prove how sure I am.

[damonm]

196. Then prove there was more to it. n/t

If you're sure...

[bravenak]

204. Why?

[damonm]

242. Because you made the claim, genius...

Either prove it or it's BS.

[bravenak]

243. I do not have to prove my opinion

[damonm]

244. Ok, I get you...

You're just full of it.
Very clear, now.

[bravenak]

245. You are being rude

[NWCorona]

69. Even though this vote was known it's just now becoming

An issue. I'm curious as to what he will say as well.

[bravenak]

76. I agree. I have known only since July

Maybe he will say something since it's in the news now.

[NWCorona]

78. I'm guessing he will

From what I've read it was being labeled as a poison pill to kill the larger bill or that it was a vote to secure support on something Bernie was working on but it's all flimsy at this point until he addresses the vote himself.

[bravenak]

80. Yep

Better to get it from the horse's mouth.

[Hoyt]

92. Kind of hard to spin supporting the Border Klan. Then again, he seems a Nationalist.

[NWCorona]

93. Spin? Nah that's Hillary's MO

[Gore1FL]

119. Whatever he says, it will be a straight answer. n/t

[NWCorona]

122. Agreed!

[Loudestlib]

145. .

As The Washington Post' Fact Checker team points out, in 2006, some members of Congress were upset about rumors that U.S. authorities were tipping off the Mexican government to these vigilantes' whereabouts. Sanders, who was in the House of Representatives at the time and running for Senate, joined 75 other House Democrats to support an amendment that essentially barred the Department of Homeland Security from tipping off Mexico to "organized volunteer civilian action group's" whereabouts. On Wednesday, Sanders said the amendment "codified existing legislation." "I do not support vigilantes, and that is a horrific statement -- an unfair statement to make," he said.

[bravenak]

147. Not a great explanation

[Loudestlib]

151. That's perfect.

It fits a crappy accusation.

[bravenak]

158. I simply stated his vote which is on record

[Loudestlib]

162. I simply stated why. n/t

[bravenak]

167. Incorrectly.nt

[Loudestlib]

178. Can you show me in the bill where it says militiamen?

[bravenak]

216. Page six

https://www.congress.gov/crec/2006/06/06/CREC-2006-06-06-pt1-PgH3367-2.pdf

[noiretextatique]

223. You mean the one Cynthia McKinney and 65 other Democrats voted for?

Clearly, they are all racists It was a nothing amendment that went nowhere. Hapoens a lot in DC.

[bravenak]

236. I don't give a damn who else voted for it

[noiretextatique]

239. Of course you don't: that would no fit the narrative eom

[bravenak]

246. Oh please! Whatever that means, cryptic stuff

[YCHDT]

199. No... Nope, still acts as if he wants to continue Obama's legacy

[NWCorona]

201. The parts he agrees with, yes

Nobody, including Obama is perfect.

[YCHDT]

205. That's not what he said, he said he wanted a course correction and made no other qualifying...

Statements.

Period

Full stop.

Sanders knows this is unpopular among the vast majority of dems

So he doesn't want his stance against the Obama legacy to be heard

[NWCorona]

208. How is that different from what I've said?

[JaneyVee]

4. He likes to broadbrush Hillary, but...

Only does nuance (aka excuses) when it comes to his votes.

[Wilms]

13. Here's more nuance.

http://www.democraticunderground.com/12511464827

[JaneyVee]

31. But thats exactly what he does to her. So why the double standard?

Shes fighting fire with fire.

[Wilms]

50. Pardon? He's up on the facts.

To the degree she is, she gets high marks.

It seems that the majority of fact-checks don't go well for Hillary. As an extremely intelligent person, she's gonna get called-out on it.

That whole Chelsea incident. Even the Establishment cringed. Why do you want her anywhere near your country's levers of power?

[Agschmid]

2. It is an interesting dichotomy.

[NWCorona]

5. Hillary answered that question last night.

She said it herself that she's not a good politician.

[JaneyVee]

7. Shes not. Shes not a campaigner, shes a policy wonk.

[NWCorona]

11. I can agree with that.

Although she did inherent a hell of a campaign machine.

[JaneyVee]

28. On the other hand...

Bernie is a campaigner, not a serious policy wonk. "Political revolution" is a cute campaign slogan, but it is not a plan to move forward.

[NWCorona]

51. And that's where we can respectfully disagree

If Bernie wasn't a good campaigner he wouldn't have made it this far. I also believe in the revolution as the status quo isn't getting us anywhere.

[JaneyVee]

53. I agreed he's a good campaigner...

But he's terrible at policy. And again, calling for a political revolution is not a serious policy. Im 34 with 2 kids and a full time job, Im not standing outside the White House 24/7 in a permanent state of protest like Bernie claims will happen.

[NWCorona]

67. Sorry about that

As I misread your post.

I have two kids as well and I understand the time consumption with that 😀.

For me a political revolution is simply the electorate standing up and voting out the fools that vote against our interests. I think it just takes the time of researching your local representative and being cognizant to how they vote and more importantly. Letting them know how you want them to vote!

[Control-Z]

98. Is he sending money to

those down ticket candidates like Hillary is?

[NWCorona]

100. Why? So the DNC can skim the cream for Hillary?

Bernie's no fool

[Control-Z]

110. What the hell are you talking about?

It's a common practice for presidential hopefuls. Hillary shares what she takes in to try and turn the Senate blue. Democrats have been doing the same for Sanders when he's needed it his entire career.

[Loudestlib]

149. Then they take that money and print flyers that look like ballots and omits Bernie's name.

[Control-Z]

160. Of course. n/t

[Gothmog]

116. If you want to be the nominee of the party, then you should consider supporting the party

If Sanders wants super delegates to flip and support him, then maybe Sanders should consider showing that he would support the party. Super delegates are elected officials and party elders who care about the long term strength of the party. It is will be very difficult to convince these leaders to support Sanders if Sanders is not going to support the party

[NWCorona]

121. Bernie has a long history of fundraising for the DNC

In this case I don't blame him

[angrychair]

179. Mostly wrong

Some are elected officials of some kind. The majority are DNC insiders, the term "party elders" is a bit of a stretch. A good portion are paid lobbyists. They are often paid lobbyists in interest that are in direct conflict to what most people that identified as "Democrats" would find acceptable.

[Gothmog]

231. No, you are are wrong

Do you even know any super delegates? I do. Most are long time party officials or workers.

[angrychair]

233. I do know some

I never said "they are all paid DLC insiders and lobbyists " I said many are.
The DNC (DLC) doesn't represent my values. The Chair of DNC advocating for pay-day loan sharks is beyond the pale.
Having the former national co-chair on HRC's 2008 campaign in charge of messaging for the Party and deciding to go against PBO's mandate that the DNC no longer take lobbying money to funnel DNC money specifically to HRC's SuperPACs is desperate and deplorable.
At least a dozen times DUers have documented that paid lobbyists that are also DNC insiders and SuperDelegates. Lobbyists for things, like pay-day lending, that real Democrats should not be supporting.

[Gothmog]

234. The super delegates I know are strong party types who have worked in the party for decades

I would be surprise to see many lobbyists on this list but there may be a few. The vast bulk are people who are elected officials or people who have been working inside the party for decades and who have the long term best interests of the party in mind.

The super delegates I know are scared that Sanders would hurt down ballot races. If Sanders wants to convince super delegates to support him, then he needs to support the party (i.e., raise cash for the party) and provide some reasons or polling that shows that he would not kill down ballot candidates or hurt the long term prospects of the party

[angrychair]

235. Take it a concern at a time

Contributing through state Parties or to DNC:
There have been several stories here on DU and in the media, verified, that even the money sent down ticket has all or some redirected back to directly support HRC's campaign.

Secondly, even the most partisan observer should admit a significant bias toward the HRC campaign from the DNC (head of DNC former national co-chair for HRC's 2008 run) and many state parties. A bias that should not exist. I mean the state party in IL admitted that the left Sanders name off their sample ballot because they "endorsed " HRC. If the Sanders campaign was being dealt with on the same level as the HRC campaign I think we would see a whole host of benefits: stronger polling for Sanders and stronger voter turn-out for Democrats overall, chief among them. This self-fulfilling polling predictions as foretold prophecy from pundits creates a false narrative that feeds on itself and constant reinforcement of the HRC inevitability is going to suppress turnout.

Lastly, Democratic Party nominations may sometimes be won with just Democrats but General Elections require lots of Independents.
In far to many states registered Independents are king in politics. In every swing state this is a solid fact: you don't win a swing state without carrying a majority of independents.
Enter a middle America state like Michigan. Sanders carried Independents over HRC by 43 points (71/28)
We will learn more as we progress through states like OH and IL but Sanders has carried independents even in states he has lost to HRC. In South Carolina, Sanders carried Independents by 7 points (53/46)

In Massachusetts, Sanders carried independents by 33 points (66/33)

The point I am making is that while you may win a lot of states or even a whole Democratic Party nomination without Independents, you do not win General Elections without carrying a lot of Independents. Bernie can carry those Independents and those Independents will vote for Sanders and down ticket.

[politicaljunkie41910]

115. I recall Bernie describing Political Revolution in an interview as participants showing up

in Wash DC, and storming the halls of the Capital Bldg and refusing to leave. Sounded something like his days at the Univ of Chicago. When I heard him say that, I thought, "Who is he kidding?" Any activity that large would be leaked and disseminated to law enforcement officials and the Capital Police Dept would just shut down the Capital Building. The Capital Bldg has to much historical items within its confine that they wouldn't allow protesters to destroy so it would be shutdown in a hurry. Besides you have to go through security to get into the Capital Bldg and there are tunnels that are not accessible to the public that members of congress could leave out of. Congress can then just shut down the capital and adjourn in recess and go home until it all blew over.

[ellennelle]

154. have you read any of his policy proposals?

i understand, having kids makes that very difficult, and i'm not faulting you. but please recognize that every single policy hillary is now proposing is a watered down version of policies bernie has been championing for decades. literally, decades.

sure, calling for a political revolution is not even put forward as a 'policy' per se, but as a strategy. yet it is working. it has first energized the electorate and gotten more youth involved with the process than anyone ever, including obama. and second, it frames the solution not in terms of some abstract bills that get forced thru the sausage factory of congress, but require we the people to become actively involved with our government, you know, giving up the spectator sport approach.

i know you can't make it to picket the WH on a weekly basis, but you do have a phone, correct? you do have a rep, yes? you can write letters, no? i know these things take time, but so does cleaning up the perpetual messes the establishment keeps piling on us. it has to stop, and we the people are not just the only ones who can do it, we are the only ones who should be doing it. i sure don't want the establishment elite to continue doing that for me.

meanwhile, darlin', you are doing the work of angels with a job and 2 kids, and my hat's off to you. wishing you the best; i know you'll do that, for your kids and for yourself.

[tularetom]

90. By her own admission she isn't a charismatic speaker like Bill Clinton or Obama

So why are bankers, corporations, associations and other organizations paying her six figures to speak to them? It ain't because they are captivated by her awesome speaking style. It must because she tells them what they want to hear. Or it's just a frickin bribe.

[appalachiablue]

141. +1

[shadowandblossom]

203. I'd be happy to go to a fundraiser where she spoke or any other event to hear her.

Having her as a speaker would put butts in seats and many people would be thrilled to go. As for her speaking, that's not what she said and frankly, I love watching her. The speech in Beijing about womens' rights is a particularly famous example of her style.

[Barack_America]

9. Transparent? Not quite. You know what we're waiting for.

I'm sorry that Hillary is on the wrong side of the top issues this election...corruption and trade.

[JaneyVee]

16. Sorry, thats your opinion.

We are a global economy. You cannot have economic growth without opening new markets.

[Barack_America]

30. Growth, you say? For whom? Not for us. Not for Michigan.

Not for Americans.

And guess what, we noticed.

[JaneyVee]

34. Manufacturing expanded under Bill and Michigan had...

A 3.4% unemployment rate. Ever heard if GWBush?

[navarth]

184. Expanded where?

I'm here in Michigan as well....where did manufacturing expand around here?? All I've noticed is jobs flying away. More employment maybe at McDonalds but I noticed more factiories closing than opening. Did I miss something?

[MattSh]

215. Oh Please...

There were a unique set of circumstances in the 90's that guaranteed the economy would grow. Ever hear of computers? How about the internet? We could have elected a cocker spaniel in the 90's and still had a healthy economy.

[sheshe2]

10. K&R

[libtodeath]

12. Iraq war vote n/t

[NCTraveler]

18. What a shitty vote.

I've never dismissed it. Just like I don't dismiss a number of Sanders shitty votes.

[JaneyVee]

22. Which she has taken full responsibility for.

Like an adult.

[libtodeath]

27. Yet then helped turn Libya into a disaster.

[Barack_America]

32. And is currently calling for sanctions on Iran....

...unilateral action against ISIS.

She apologizes, but she doesn't learn. Not in foreign policy, not in domestic policy.

[JaneyVee]

37. And Bernie voted for that as well.

He also voted to make Hillary SoS.

[libtodeath]

39. So you condemn him for voting for her as SOS?

[JonLeibowitz]

58. No they like to talk about a nonbinding resolution condemning Libya's government for their crimes.

Which was a......nonbinding resolution

[desmiller]

106. As a Hillary supporter, you should proud that he did.

[SamKnause]

49. Exactly how does one take responsibility for for causing

the deaths of U.S. soldiers, the soldiers of all the countries involved, 100's of thousands

of dead Iraqis, and bankrupting the U.S. to pay for the war ????

I don't think just stating that you made a mistake is taking responsibility.

She has poor judgment.

War, invasions, and deadly sanctions are always her first choices.

[pangaia]

60. [phone]

[G_j]

83. Does anyone know when she

actually acknowledged her "mistake?"

[SamKnause]

91. After a short search it appears the first time she admitted was in her book

Hard Choices.

The book came out in 2014.

If you find different information please let me know.

[G_j]

97. Yes, just found it, thanks!

and posted a thread on it:

http://www.democraticunderground.com/12511465373

[Control-Z]

105. She did not start the Iraq war.

George W. Bush did. It's not Hillary's war. It's Bush's war.

It's ridiculous to call it hers. Or calling NAFTA her trade deal. She didn't have a vote on NAFTA. She held no public office at the time.

I'm embarrassed for anyone who doesn't understand the difference. There are dozens more she gets blamed for while having had no vote or even holding office at the time.

[Marr]

127. She supported it. For god's, sake-- this is a thread demanding Sanders 'take responsibility'

for his votes, and you're arguing that Hillary is free of blame for voting for and vocally supporting the invasion of Iraq.

[Control-Z]

157. Better read again. n/t

[fun n serious]

168. She has been. That and more. nt

[Marr]

189. Not by you.

She supported an immoral invasion either because it was the smart career move, or because she has horrible judgement. Either one of those things should disqualify her as presidential candidate.

[KPN]

62. Yes ...

and she's being held accountable. Taking responsibility includes being accountable. She's being held accountable ... for her part in the current Arab mess.

[Marr]

118. +1, I didn't realize saying you 'take responsibility' absolves you.

Hell, not only that-- it makes you worthy of being President. I mean, it's one thing to say you take full responsibility and retire. It's another to say it and expect to be put in charge.

Amazing.

[Marr]

117. Yes, I'm sure that helped grow a lot of arms and legs back.

Great that she 'took responsibility' for it-- and then went on to remain a hawk.

[dana_b]

14. it's been said over and over again how

the Clinton camp has misrepresented his votes and his intentions and why he voted the way that he did. THAT'S why!

We know what he meant by his votes and why Hillary is deliberately trying to misrepresent him - to slander him. It's because she is scared and she should be.

Look all of it up if you don't believe me. But honestly, I think you know that. I think you know what Hillary is trying to do because you're doing it too. But guess what?? It's NOT working!!! People are still going more and more for Bernie and less for Hillary. It's because the TRUTH is getting out there.

Btw - as if more proof is needed:
http://www.democraticunderground.com/?com=view_post&forum=1251&pid=1461494

[JaneyVee]

25. Umm..check the popular vote and delegate totals.

[dana_b]

35. that has nothing to do with momentum. He's got it, she doesn't

and that's why she's worried and asking more from her donors because she knows that there are more Michigans coming up.

[JaneyVee]

38. Im guessing you dont fully understand how delegates are allocated?

[dana_b]

46. you would be guessing wrong

I am guessing that you don't understand how elections work when the "front runner" candidate is constantly, and rightfully, accused of slander, lying, deceit and pandering. I'll give you a clue - that person LOSES!!!

[JaneyVee]

55. Heres a clue:

http://www.democraticunderground.com/12511464497

[Loudestlib]

146. You come off as desperate. n/t

[ellennelle]

163. not only that

he's got the favorables and she doesn't.

[Jester Messiah]

42. You asked and you were answered. n/t

[dana_b]

47. thank you

and i think my work is done here now.

[JaneyVee]

57. Apparently not.

http://www.democraticunderground.com/12511464497

[dana_b]

99. yes, I did answer the questions to your OP in post #14

but evidently you didn't like the answers and decided to push ANOTHER issue regarding the delegate counts.

Look - Janey, I think we are going to have to agree to disagree on these issues. It's evident that were are both passionate about our candidates and will have to let the primaries play out.

I wish you the best in life.

[NCTraveler]

15. His own direct quotes get a hide here.

It's pretty amazing.

[JaneyVee]

20. Yup.

I have a feeling me and this dose of truthiness wont last long here either.

[NWCorona]

71. I really like this site but all the hides

And people blocking each other is a bummer.

[ellennelle]

165. a-frikkin'-men!!

[NWCorona]

21. That happened?

[NCTraveler]

24. Yes. Twice for me.

Many times for others. We can't discuss certain parts of Sanders thirties here.

[NWCorona]

73. Big downer

Do you get a notification if a post you wrote is hidden?

[NCTraveler]

84. Yes, is is sent in DU mail. Nt

[NWCorona]

89. Thanks!

I figured as much but wasn't sure.

[Control-Z]

185. Yes. I got my only 2 hides ever

for daring to write about something Sanders admittedly said/did.

[pkdu]

26. Bingo! Nt

[lunamagica]

19. Has he ever apologized for anything?

[Control-Z]

190. If "what I meant to say"

is an apology, yes. Back peddling using that excuse usually stops in high school. No other politician would ever get away with it.

[Nonhlanhla]

23. Oh, it's easy to answer that.

Nothing is ever Bernie's fault

...because everything is Hillary's fault.

[pkdu]

29. Please add his vote on the Sierra Blanco nuclear waste disposal

And getting his wife a post on the commission as a VT member.

[JaneyVee]

40. HOLY CRAP!!!

[pkdu]

63. Yep , google it. Last time I posted it , the swarm got it hidden PDQ....

Apparently facts are rude and offensive.

Might as well add his admiration for Fidel and Noriega too....the Republcans would tear him to shreds for those.

[ellennelle]

182. you're confused

i think you mean ortega and not noriega, actually.

fwiw, i have long held fidel in very high regard in many respects, and am amazed he was able to hold his country together under 55 years of US embargo, not to mention continual assassination attempts, which would make anyone a bit paranoid. their people enjoy 100% literacy, practically invented organic gardening, and have about the best healthcare system in the world. for starters.

both castro and ortega are highly symbolic characters in the latin american fights for liberation from capitalist/colonial europeans; the US took that capitalist colonialism on with gusto under the banner of the monroe doctrine (recall? bernie mentioned this last night), most particularly in the 80s. can you say iran contra? can you say kissinger? i daresay the republicans will not like the response they get from the hispanic communities if those specters are raised to justify bashing bernie for investigating US war crimes. hundreds of thousands of people were slaughtered or disappeared, and many of the goon perpetrators were trained at the school of the americas at ft. banning, GA, fondly known as the school of the assassins. those perps are being tried and convicted now, after all these years. deep deep wounds remain, and what also remains is our goddam heavy footprint. please read up on hillary's role in both the honduras and haiti regime changes of late, as just two western hemisphere examples. regime change seems to be her specialty.

which is quite simpatico with the republican agenda, regime change. my bet is that they'll steer clear of such discussions in order to avoid these "rude and offensive" facts.

i sincerely hope these politely presented facts do not offend you, and clarify your confusion.

[pkdu]

214. No offense taken , typo not confusion and good luck with Bernie trying to get a nuanced

Response like that , no matter how accurate he may feel it is , once asked during an MSM debate against a Republican.

[Bluenorthwest]

130. Crap is the right word! First off, it is Sierra Blanca, not Blanco, and guess what did get dumped

there? Crap. Tons of it, brought in for years from NYC (don't you live in NYC?) to Sierra Blanca Texas when the US made NY stop dumping it in the ocean which is what they had previously done.

New York's Sewage Was a Texas Town's Gold
SIERRA BLANCA, Tex.— There is not much here anymore, if there was ever much of anything to begin with. The town's main street is coated in dust, and the old movie house is long shuttered. The one sign of activity -- the traffic moving along elevated Interstate 10 -- is a reminder that the modern world rarely stops here.

The other reminder can be found on the outskirts of this tiny town, where freight cars are being unloaded for the last time. The last sludge train from New York City arrived this month, leaving its last shipment of what officials describe as ''bio-solids'' but what others call treated sewage.

The dump in Sierra Blanca, one of the biggest sludge dumps in the world, is going out of business.
http://www.nytimes.com/2001/07/27/us/new-york-s-sewage-was-a-texas-town-s-gold.html

"This week the Texas Toxic Tour takes us to Sierra Blanca Texas, home to the nation's largest sewage sludge dump. The story examines how Sierra Blanca, a small town on the U.S./Mexico border, became the resting place for New York City's sewage. The video interview includes a meeting with several local residents concerned with unusual health problems. Additionally, this segment will focus on how the TNRCC ignored local health concerns and illegal dumping to support tripling New York's waste being dumped in the Lonestar State."
http://www.txpeer.org/toxictour/merco.html

[JaneyVee]

132. So now its my fault for living in NYC, but not Bernie's fault...

For voting for it?

Do you see how weird and twisted this gets? Nothing is ever Bernie's fault, its always someone elses.

[pkdu]

213. Nice try at deflection , we are talking about Sanders vote for VT nuclear waste dumped at same site.

Ok.

[TTUBatfan2008]

33. Wall Street deregulation

The CFO of Hillary's current campaign Gary Gensler helped write the deregulation. Bill Clinton signed it into law and indeed Gensler was part of the Clinton team back then. Blatantly dishonest and hypocritical attack.

Bernie's worst vote is the F-35 program that has wasted over $1 trillion. He brought home the pork barrel for his state but it has cost the country a lot of money. He deserves a lot of criticism for that one.

[JaneyVee]

48. Gary Gensler is a Wall Street watchdog.

http://www.bloomberg.com/politics/articles/2015-04-16/exclusive-hillary-clinton-said-to-hire-former-wall-street-cop-as-campaign-cfo

[TTUBatfan2008]

54. So why...

...did he help write such disastrous legislation? The worst thing I will say for Bernie on this topic is that he could have voted against it and the government funding would have passed. Still though, dirty as hell for the Clinton administration to sneak that language into a government funding bill.

[TM99]

36. This is really starting to get

pathetic and whinny.

I was going to write out a long rebuttal but it is useless.

The Clinton Machine with Brock has perfected the artful smear and the rat-fuck.

The irony is that we Sanders supporters do not see him as perfect. We state disagreements, recognize the difficulties of compromising on omnibus bills, and know that any campaign can make mistakes. I appreciate that he takes responsibility and takes the appropriate actions when those come up.

On the other hand, you post this pile of steaming horseshit --

Hillary did not vote for crime bill.
Hillary did not vote to deregulate Wall St.
Hillary did not vote to protect gun industry.
Hillary did not vote against auto bailout.
Hillary did not vote against immigration.
Hillary did not vote for a border militia.
Hillary did not vote to protect rapists from divulging HIV status to victims.
Hillary's campaign has been transparent and free of any campaign shenanigans or scandals.

and we all know that it is pure projection and cognitive dissonance.

Clinton did not vote for the crime bill BUT she pushed it in part by perpetuating a racist pseudoscience theory of superpredators.

Clinton did not vote to deregulate, she simply went along and supported her husbands policies which did. Then she has played footsies with them for millions of dollars since.

Clinton did not vote for the PLCAA but she was Annie fucking Oakely in 2008 against Obama.

Clinton lied about the bailout bills. Period. End of fucking discussion.

Clinton wants to build a fucking wall, just a smaller one than Trump. Plus she could not give a straight yes or no answer in the debate on whether she would continue to deport children and undocumenteds without criminal records which she has supported in the past. Big fucking lie here again as well.

The amendment concerning the militia was one of 168 amendments to a huge bill. To suggest he supports them in any way is a rat-fucking extraordinaire.

Clinton may not have supported protecting the civil rights of 'rapists' true, however, she also does not support our civil rights either. She is a firm backer of the Patriot Act, the NSA, Total Eschelon, and odious tech measures to stop encryption. Sanders supports our civil rights even when it is not pretty. Damn good for him!

Oh, the best for last, to claim that the Clinton campaign is anything but the lying, smearing, rat fucking, POS that it was in 2008 and still is again in 2016 is why so many of y'all don't get why she will lose even if she thinks she has won.

[MerryBlooms]

44. Rec & Kick.

Spectacular!!

[JaneyVee]

52. LOL you guys recognize nuance???

Everything is black and white in Bernie world. Everything.

[TM99]

64. And there it is again.

More projection. At least you are more consistent than your candidate of choice.

[VulgarPoet]

232. +1. I wish I could rec individual posts, but you'll just have to do with this.

[Avalux]

41. I'm sorry you're having a sad.

It's been a rough few days for Hillary, to be sure.

[JaneyVee]

43. Huh?

http://www.democraticunderground.com/12511464497

[ellennelle]

187. oh please

stop with the pledged delegate nonsense, will you?

do you honestly believe those establishment folks will ultimately defy a bernie win of voters?

and if they don't, do you honestly believe all hell will not break loose?

that's just not even close to logical.

and suggestive that you don't recall how things went down 8 years ago.

you're forgiven if you're too young.

[bravenak]

237. I Think her being 200 PLEDGED delegates ahead of him

Justifies them continuing to support her since PLEDGED delegates are bound until after the first vote at the convention, I wonder exactly what you are trying to say.... If you meant SUPERDELEGATES, there is no need for them to switch sinc she is way ahead of bernie on both pledged and superdelegates.

If he manages to catch up with her, so be it. But any mess starting at the convention will not lead to a bunch of folks switching their vote... I do not change m mind based on the fact that peopke are sulking about losing. It is his JOB to get those superdelegates to back him. Nobody owes him a switch if he cannot do any convincing himself. The rules is the rules. We have known about superdelegates all my life.

[Gothmog]

45. Good thread

[KPN]

56. There you go again ...

playing the victim. "What about him???!!!"

Bernie's been "blamed" many times for most of those things by the Clinton camp. And the Bernie camp has "blamed" Hillary many times for many things as well. Difference is, with Hillary the accusations seem to stick whereas Bernie, not so much -- despite the DNC and MSM maneuvering at every turn for Hill. What do you suppose explains the difference?

[JaneyVee]

59. Bernie gets handled with kid gloves by the media.

Even you guys say theres a "Bernie blackout". Cant have it both ways. Blackout = not vetted.

[ellennelle]

195. ROFLMAO!!!

i am so very sorry, janey dear, but WTF???

again, logic?

if the media had anything to smear bernie with, they would run loud and long about it. they can vet till the cows come home; he's been a public servant for over 30 years, so he's been pretty well vetted. if you think a democratic socialist never encountered campaign vetting before, do give us a break.

the media are scared poopless of bernie and his strong following, as it signifies the - hopefully (get on board, GF, we need every hand on deck!!) - END of the MSM/establishment!!!

why do you think lloyd blankfein bothered to suggest bernie is dangerous? why do you think he remained mum about hillary?

bernie is openly and aggressively determined to shut down their global ponzi scheme and break them up into little pieces, manageable and regulatable pieces, and send the criminals to jail.

the media loves hillary because hillary loves wall street and big business. she always has, despite - or possibly even because of - their endless and obscene harassment of her. she has only made her limp threats against wall street since bernie started making such a loud fuss and getting traction with it.

this is precisely why we should not let up on those damn goldman speech transcripts. what was she saying to them about these things? what we know so far from folks in those rooms is that she felt all the chatter blaming wall street was misguided and unproductive, and gosh, we all got us into this pickle, so we should all work together to solve the problems.

now, can you honestly tell me that THIS is how you feel about wall street? and do you really honestly and truly believe the media - which stands to lose a great deal if/when bernie is prez - is giving a pass to the guy who would also like to recover media regulations?

try again.

[pangaia]

61. Oh, poor Janey ...

[Elmer S. E. Dump]

112. Talk about your mixed nuts!

[retrowire]

65. all of its been explained

and as an informed voter, I take it upon myself to look up the candidates rationale to the decisions they make.

it's real easy to do. And Bernie's got a whole lot more reasonable explanations for his actions than Hillary does.

so it's not that people are saying it's not Bernie's fault, its moreso people saying why Bernie did what he did and accepting that. doesn't mean we agree with it all, but we do understand it.

[UglyGreed]

66. Why no link to this info????

[kstewart33]

70. Because Bernie is perfect. Except for that bread lines thing.

And his friendship Manuel Ortega. And his admiration for Fidel Castro. And his honeymooning in the Soviet Union during the Cold War.

And didn't he say that bread lines are good for the people?

Hmm....I can see those Republican ads now: 'Would you want a Communist to lead America?'

Totally not true, unfair and repugnant, but those Repubs know how to rattle voters' chains.

[NWCorona]

75. Don't worry. Hillary is preparing Bernie for the general election

[ellennelle]

198. seriously?

aside from being highly twisted and easily refuted claims, these points will no doubt come up in GE debates, where they can be dispatched with simply with the truth.

but really, very few voters - most of them older and lo info - have that kind of knee-jerk reaction to "communist" and "socialist" as deal-breaking disparagements.

[kstewart33]

202. Easily refuted.

This is for starters. And if you want more, simply do some Google searches. It's all there and if Bernie is lucky enough to con his way to the nomination, the Republicans will bury him with it.

the link: http://www.democraticunderground.com/?com=view_post&forum=1251&pid=1465550

And when they do bury him, we lose the Supreme Court, Obamacare (and 17 million people lose their insurance), and on and on.

You must be young. Do you remember how the Republicans buried John Kerry, a decorated Vietnam veteran, with the Swift Boaters? Or Dukakis with Willie Horton? Of course you don't.

Don't for a minute think that 'low information' voters won't be affected by the Repub machine's general election theme: "Don't put a Communist in the White House." Because they will do it. Fair or not, no one is better at political assassination than they are.

Consider yourself a 'low info' voter who has not bothered to scratch the surface of Bernie's biography, his backbencher reputation in Congress as someone who in 25 years has 3 passed bills to his name and two named post offices in Vermont, and the central question: if only 5 Democrats in Congress have endorsed him (can they all be corrupt?), maybe they know Bernie better than you or I do? If Bernie's such a leader, why don't more than 5 out of 200 endorse him. If he's the answer to our problems.....why not?

[UglyGreed]

72. Ahh maybe this why there is no link

Right wing PAC LMFAO

Official PAC Name:
WESTERN REPRESENTATION PAC
Location: RENO, NV 89509
Industry: Republican/Conservative
Treasurer: STOCKTON, ROGER
FEC Committee ID: C00461772
(Look up actual documents filed at the FEC)
*Based on data released by the FEC on March 10, 2016 except for independent expenditure and communication cost, contributions to federal candidates, and contributions from individual donor data, which were released by the FEC on February 22, 2016.

Feel free to distribute or cite this material, but please credit the Center for Responsive Politics. For permission to reprint for commercial uses, such as textbooks, contact the Center: [e-mail]



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Street City, State Zip Code

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https://www.opensecrets.org/pacs/lookup2.php?strID=C00461772

[UglyGreed]

77. Janey is this your source????

inquiring minds would like to know..........

[kiva]

135. *crickets* nt

[UglyGreed]

138. Check out the

Rachel interviewing Hillary thread

http://www.democraticunderground.com/12511465635

[Scootaloo]

155. More info downthread

This is stuff I'm coming to expect from Janey.

[merrily]

79. Hillary didn't vote for Wall Street deregulation while she was First Lady? This entire OP is crap.

[Persondem]

81. Great post. I am surprised this hasn't been hidden by the true believers. K & R nt

[UglyGreed]

87. A Right Wing PAC

as a source should be always complimented

Right wing PAC LMFAO

Official PAC Name:
WESTERN REPRESENTATION PAC
Location: RENO, NV 89509
Industry: Republican/Conservative
Treasurer: STOCKTON, ROGER
FEC Committee ID: C00461772
(Look up actual documents filed at the FEC)
*Based on data released by the FEC on March 10, 2016 except for independent expenditure and communication cost, contributions to federal candidates, and contributions from individual donor data, which were released by the FEC on February 22, 2016.

Feel free to distribute or cite this material, but please credit the Center for Responsive Politics. For permission to reprint for commercial uses, such as textbooks, contact the Center: [e-mail]



Search for a PAC
Enter at least 3 characters


Find Your Representatives

Street City, State Zip Code

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https://www.opensecrets.org/pacs/lookup2.php?strID=C00461772

[think]

169. Nice work. 'Joe Miller Gets New Job Running Conservative PAC'

http://www.rightwingwatch.org/content/joe-miller-gets-new-job-running-conservative-

Their goal is union busting....

[UglyGreed]

177. I had a feeling when

it was an image that the source was not one to be proud of.......

[Persondem]

207. RW post eh, reminds me of all the Benghazi and email shite you see here at DU

Of course you know a post hits a nerve when the source is attacked rather than the info.

Carry on.

[UglyGreed]

222. LOL

after being attacked for posting CNN articles and even Mother Jones I will return the favor anytime I see fit

[UglyGreed]

82. I guess I found the source

since you have chosen not to reply.........it's OK it is your right

[vintx]

86. HR 3088? The bill Nancy Pelosi and Barbara Lee also voted against?

That one?

[Recoverin_Republican]

102. the Sanders minions are preparing your stake. How do you like your fire, with accelerant or without?

[UglyGreed]

114. You should recognize the source

since it is from a right wing PAC......

[WillyT]

103. LOL !!!

Wow.

[Buzz Clik]

104. Bernie is practically perfect in every way.

[DrBulldog]

107. Slime and distortion.

[blackspade]

108. A Hillariously ironic post.

[mac56]

109. I'll just leave this here.

[SoapBox]

111. A Sanders Presidency vs. a Clinton Presidency?

ROFLMAO

I would take a Sanders Presidency over one from the Wall Street Candidate anyway.

[Roland99]

113. Gosh I love grossly simplified memes.

Usually only see them on FreeRepublic, though. So sad to this BS here.

[UglyGreed]

123. WESTERN REPRESENTATION PAC

seems to be the source of the image text so you may of seen it on FreeRepublic.......

[ellennelle]

142. ooh; good on ya.

[Roland99]

221. Bang! Zoom!

Nice find

[yuiyoshida]

120. So Janey, just come out and say it ...

You think Bernie is a horrible person, and you HATE him... See how easy that was?

[litlbilly]

124. It's not Bernie's fault that Hillary was so awful last night in the debate. It's all on her

[elmac]

125. I fully blame Bernie

for pushing HRC far enough to the left where I can't call her a republican anymore like her hubby.

[Erich Bloodaxe BSN]

218. Don't worry, it's all just smoke and mirrors.

She hasn't actually been pushed to the left at all, she's just saying she has for as long as she needs to during the campaign.

[valerief]

126. This would test people ACCUSED of rape, not CONVICTED of rape.

Victims of Rape Health Protection Act - Amends the Omnibus Crime Control and Safe Streets Act of 1968 to reduce by ten percent the funds available to a State under the drug control grant program unless such State demonstrates that in its laws or regulations with respect to a defendant against whom a rape charge is brought, such State requires that:
(1) the defendant be tested for HIV if the nature of the crime would have placed the victim at risk of HIV and the victim requests such a test;
(2) the defendant be so tested within 48 hours after the information or indictment is presented and that the test results be made immediately available to the victim;
(3) the defendant undergo any appropriate follow-up tests and that those test results be made immediately available to the victim; and
(4) if results indicate that the defendant has HIV, such fact may be considered in the judicial proceedings conducted for the crime.Allows funds reduced for noncompliance with such requirements to be redistributed to complying States.

[valerief]

143. I'm not the OP. I just looked up the bill and read the wording (which I included in my previous

post).

The OP poster putting a negative spin on Bernie's vote doesn't surprise me at all.

[valerief]

156. I see certain names (of those I haven't already put on ignore) and know what their agenda is. nt

[gregcrawford]

128. Bitterness is so unbecoming.

[Barack_America]

129. Marsha, Marsha, Marsha!!

[DefenseLawyer]

131. Ha! n/t

[Geronimoe]

133. I'm surprised this post isn't deleted as flaming

This passed in the House but was blocked in the Senate. The Senate found the bill stupid and not worth taking up.

https://www.govtrack.us/congress/votes/106-2000/h505

[Plucketeer]

134. LOL!

Gang, keep workin' that mole hill this way and that. You've bound to craft a mountain from it eventually!

[Sancho]

136. Careful, if you post a link to Bernie's voting record, you will be hidden!!

[Number23]

159. Where did this happen? Judging by how wacked out it is around here, I don't doubt this happened

for a second. I'd just like to see it.

[Sancho]

170. Simple facts from liberal press...and Bernie's actual votes....

On Thu Mar 10, 2016, 12:04 AM an alert was sent on the following post:

Are these the Minuteman and Koch stories you mean?
http://www.democraticunderground.com/?com=view_post&forum=1251&pid=1459483

REASON FOR ALERT

This post is disruptive, hurtful, rude, insensitive, over-the-top, or otherwise inappropriate.

ALERTER'S COMMENTS

This post has link and text from a well known spam site that runs by posting clickbait trash and misinformation. This kind of garbage makes DU suck, for example posting articles that say Bernie Sanders supports the Minutemen. It's a completely false and hurtful smear.


JURY RESULTS

A randomly-selected Jury of DU members completed their review of this alert at Thu Mar 10, 2016, 12:20 AM, and voted 4-3 to HIDE IT.

Juror #1 voted to HIDE IT
Explanation: No explanation given
Juror #2 voted to LEAVE IT ALONE
Explanation: Respond to the post and show that the link and text are objectionable and why. It's part of the discussion. It's borderline, but I would let it go. The rest of the thread refutes the statements although they could do a better job of it.
Juror #3 voted to LEAVE IT ALONE
Explanation: We're alerting on facts now?
Juror #4 voted to HIDE IT
Explanation: No explanation given
Juror #5 voted to LEAVE IT ALONE
Explanation: No explanation given
Juror #6 voted to HIDE IT
Explanation: No explanation given
Juror #7 voted to HIDE IT
Explanation: No explanation given

[one_voice]

206. This kind of hide..

is what makes DU suck! The jury system isn't there to protect your chosen candidate form words you don't like. Using the jury system in such a dishonest way is complete and utter garbage.

[chervilant]

137. Jebus H. Christ on a Cracker!!!

You'd think that adding someone to your IL would prevent seeing posts like this one!!!

[ellennelle]

139. ah.

seems all this list shows is that every single one of those bills is packed with so many riders and amendments that hamstring the voting members of congress, i find it very difficult to grasp how any of them could ever make any voting decisions, frankly. i mean really; prioritizing the number of competing evils in any single bill is just mind-boggling when you think about it; it's like it's by design, of course by big money lobbyists.

the only bill i can think of that is pertinent to your argument that actually does NOT fit my description above, that was a straightforward vote, was the resolution to invade iraq; several amendments were offered, all failed.

still, 42% of dem senators and 31% of the house (all but 6 of them dems) voted against it.

it was not that complicated or heroic a decision. hillary's was thus not a 'smart power' vote, not by a long shot. she has herself admitted as much, in hindsight. i'm inclined toward the foresighted ones, myself, which include akaka, boxer, byrd, durbin, feingold, kennedy, leahy, mikulsky, stabenow, wellstone, and widen, to name just a few. bernie was still in the house at the time, and cast his vote, along with 132 other members, months before the senate did, so the senators had even more information and time for their consideration of their votes.

notably, that particular vote is omitted from your list.

(i'll refrain from quibbling with you over your claim that the hillary campaign has been transparent - goldman transcripts anyone? - and free of shenanigans - capehart/auto-bailout/minuteman/bullhornbill anyone? - for now. please review your work before submission.)

[Scootaloo]

148. Your big text image is drawn from Western PAC

Specifically an article from the PAC's director of research and messaging, Jay Darcy. He's also got some pieces shitting all over Black Lives Matter such as this and this. He's also a member of Right to Rise USA, a Super PAC created to bolster Jeb Bush in the 2016 primaries.

What is Western PAC?

Since our founding in 2009, Western PAC has been a leader in the effort to return control of America back to the people as was intended by our Founding Fathers. We saw how our liberties and freedoms were slowly being eroded by a cast system of crony politicians who campaign on conservative principles and representation of their constituents but vote the will of their masters on K Street.

We knew that the job would not be easy or happen overnight. Our funding has never come from billionaires or special interest groups, many of which have funded groups that make the appearance of protecting the “little people” but are in reality, front groups to push their own agenda or generate profits for their founders.

The America we grew up in is in grave danger of being lost as our elected officials sell us out to the highest bidder. The idea that we have our representatives passing legislation that effects our nation without even reading it should make alarm bells go of in the head of every American. It is up to us to sound the alarm for those who have stopped paying attention.

Each of us individually is limited to what we can do to fight back. Together, we are a voice that cannot be silenced. Join the fight and make freedom ring once again.

This Super PAC has exclusively thrown money to Republicans (for reasons that ought to be fairly obvious.)

This is where Hillary Clinton supporters go for dirt on Sanders? I guess when your movement already stoops to Antisemitic hate sites and - of course - Stormfront for digs at the man, this is to be expected.

[UglyGreed]

174. Nicely done

[Marr]

227. +1, Jesus... I guess I shouldn't be surprised. /nt

[Spitfire of ATJ]

150. "Hillary's campaign has been transparent and free of any campaign shenanigans or scandals."

[dflprincess]

153. So let me get this straight

You're okay with Hillary voting for the war because of her presidential ambitions but you're not okay with Bernie voting for funds so that the troops Hillary helped send into harm's way are properly equipped so that they might have a better chance of surviving?

He votes for veterans' programs as well - many of those vets were wounded in the war he opposed and Hillary supported - do you have problems with that as well?

[doc03]

161. He should do well against Trump he doesn't get the blame for

anything either.

[HERVEPA]

166. Just a bullshit smear. To be expected.

[Maedhros]

171. This is what is truly pathetic. PATHETIC.

When the Citizen's United ruling was announced, DU was awash in much wailing and gnashing of teeth. Corporations will own our politicians! Oh Noes!

Fast forward to 2016. Hillary has taken more corporate money than any other candidate from either Party, and the hypocrites who once complained about Citizen's United cite her corporate war chest as a reason to support her over the person who took NO corporate money.

[Scootaloo]

173. And cite right-wing sources empowered by the Cu decision.

Fascinating, isn't it?

[UglyGreed]

226. Keep track of the recs

and if they dare to call out a poster by saying they are using right wing talking points.

[AgerolanAmerican]

175. Don't care

Sanders is not the servant of the people who are the problem. HRC is.

Everything else is meaningless. We're done with playing footsie with estabilshment puppets hoping they'll throw a crumb our way while they serve up a five-star banquet to the usual roster of lobbyist patrons and self-serving insiders.

[Sunsky]

176. Excellent thread nt

[left-of-center2012]

180. Ask us to support HRC if she's the nominee?

After throwing all this mud?

[Billsmile]

186. So Obviously Hillary's Voting Record Will Prove Her More Liberal Than Bernie.

Here it is. She's ranked by DW-NOMINATE as the 11th most liberal member of the Senate.

Wonder where Bernie stands?

http://www.dailykos.com/story/2015/3/31/1374629/-Hillary-Clinton-Was-the-11th-Most-Liberal-Member-of-the-Senate

[ellennelle]

209. HAHAHAHAHAHAHA!!!

whoa; i'm cryin' here.

that link? did you even look at it?

it holds the answer to your question.

BERNIE IS RANKED NUMBER ONE MOST LIBERAL IN CONGRESS!!!

please bill, proceed.

[Erich Bloodaxe BSN]

219. I think Bill was being sarcastic, hence the "obviously". nt

[ibegurpard]

188. Oh dear ...

https://m.

[Chitown Kev]

192. K & R

[Promethean]

193. Its not an equal comparison.

Sanders voted for some things that didn't work out or were part of a larger overall bill. These aren't exactly good but they aren't horrible unforgivable offenses. You know what is a horrible unforgivable offense for a politician? Taking bribes.

[aikoaiko]

197. If there is a different standard its because people see Bernie as an honest politician.

Whereas HRC is seen as duplicitous.

[YCHDT]

217. The GOP has spent million if tax payer money for that perspective

[aikoaiko]

238. It is an opinion shared by social justice seekers with enormous gravitas

Like Bell Hooks. Surely you don't think she could fall for false Republican propaganda.

https://amp.twimg.com/v/d6678121-8148-48f7-83a9-9bd1d2709898
(from 2014 when HRC was inevitable).

[angrychair]

200. very simplistic view of voting in Congress

You have flooded your OP with dozens of conjectures and opinions and challenged people to dispute you which, given the dozen+ issues you've raised, is not possible to do so effectively and if we don't answer all of them, you will just ignore it since we didn't answer to your whole OP.

Many of these accusations against Sanders are a two-edged sword as many of Clinton's allies have supported several pieces of legislation mentioned.

Being critical of a very specific vote is like being critical of a whole book by only reading the dust cover teaser.

Their are many members of Congress that end up voting against their very own legislation that they wrote. Not because it was bad or they were all of a sudden against their own Bill but for any of a dozen procedural reasons or deals. A vote in Congress can be for any number of reasons.

At the end of the day this is sore grapes over Sanders criticism of her IWR vote. Sanders was right she was wrong. Nothing will change that and nothing compares. Most of the things you mentioned are out of context or one very small piece of a very large Bill. These type of OPs says all I need to know about her and her supporters.

[ucrdem]

210. LOL. And if he wrecks this election as he seems bent on doing that will be Hillary's fault too.

Good list, bookmarking.

[cyberswede]

211. I can see how voting on complex issues might be confusing for some.

Binary thinking is nice, if you can accept such simplicity.

[WillyT]

212. Wow...

This won't work.

[yardwork]

220. Because he's a man?

[Jitter65]

224. And there you have it, my friend. nt

[Live and Learn]

225. NOTHING BERNIE HAS EVER DONE COMPARES TO THESE EVILS!

Hillary voted for the Iraq War, advocated for Welfare Reform, Nafta and the crime bill and takes money from private prisons, bankers and other corporations.

[rock]

228. He's a god

Dincha hear?

[karynnj]

229. Maybe it goes back to the grade school chant - where he is "rubber", she is "glue"

I don't know how generational or regional this was, but I remember little elementary school kids responding to attacks by saying:

"I'm rubber, you're glue, everything you say bounces off of me and sticks to you"

I have never before thought of that doggerel in a political race, but somehow it is fitting this year - though not in the literal sense we had in the 1950s.

You have the HRC team, working hard on opposition research - and then taking bits and pieces, sometimes out of context, thinking they have the perfect hit on Bernie. Then they throw it ... and it mostly blows back and further harms her likability.

For instance, YOU list "deregulating Wall Street". That was based on a vote in the House where only 4 members of the House voted against the highly pushed Commodities Modification amendment. The 4 included Ron Paul and other libertarians. In addition, the bill when they voted was covering agricultural products -- it was modified before the conference bill emerged.

Back in 2008, a group of us pulled as much as we could from the Senate record on the bill passed that included that provision. There was NO separate vote on it in the Senate and it was NOT in the Senate version of the overall bill. (Therefore the fact that the Senate liberals voted against the overall bill is irrelevant - their concern, from reading their statements was cuts to various programs that helped provide affordable housing and other liberal goals.)

Among the House members, the ONLY liberal representative who had concerns - in his speech, was Markey, but he ultimately voted for it.

Once the House and Senate bills passed, the conference committee included the provision that was originally ONLY in the House version and made changes to allow the creation of derivatives for things that never before had them - including mortgage backed securities. This was a BIG jump from what was voted for that allowed farmers to sell their future product at an agreed upon price. The conference bill was passed in the Senate by a voice vote the week before Christmas -- it was a must pass bill. (I think the same happened in the House.)

You can blame Greenspan, Summers, Rubin and especially, Phil Gramm.

Now let's consider how that played - not just on DU, but in the electorate. Sanders has CONSISTENTLY spoken of the need to control Wall Street and to shrink income inequality. These are positions he had since he was at the University of Chicago and mayor of Burlington. She said it -- and it bounced off Bernie. What stuck to her was the view on the part of many that she would say anything. It further impaired her likability and the perception that she is not honest. Yes, even though TECHNICALLY - he did vote on that.

Clinton has an incredible number of advantages - but she has baked in negatives too. She can not afford looking unlikable or as stretching the truth - which this is. When she angrily - and yes, she looks angry when she lobs these attacks, makes these charges, it reaffirms for some that Obama was wrong - she is not likable enough.

Meanwhile, Sanders has the reputation of being who he is and having said the same things for decade. While on one hand, Sanders' consistency means that things that are 180 degrees different than that perception are pretty much rejected out of hand (even if backed on a strange vote), the other side is that Sanders will be less able to "shift" to a more moderate profile. For attacks like the one described are why Sanders is RUBBER. The attacks do not match what people think or see of Bernie.

However, in a time where videos from the past are easily sent viral -- his consistency helps. Watching the full CCTV tape that the moderator cherry picked Castro comments from a LONG description of Nicaragua from 1985, what I see is a Bernie Sanders who is completely recognizable in his basic beliefs. (CCTV is a fantastic Burlington based community TV that tapes many things in town .. and even has free training of community people, who they will lend equipment to allowing them to film things that CCTV does not have on their schedule. )

People, who triangulate regularly are the people most likely to be caught up by old video.

[ucrdem]

240. Bernie has a habit of saying one thing an doing another.

The IWR vote is a good example which you and I have discussed: no on the AUMF, but yest to the Defense budget, and on the same day apparently:

On October 10, 2002, Sanders voted against the Iraq AUMF, but on the same day, he voted to fund the Defense Department in fiscal year 2003:

https://votesmart.org/bill/3083/12790/27110/use-of-military-force-against-iraq#.VYZ9uba1qSo
https://votesmart.org/bill/3122/8511/27110/department-of-defense-appropriations-fiscal-year-2003#.VYZ8NLa1qSo

His vote against the auto bailout is another example. Publically he was for it, though reluctantly, but when the real test came, he failed to support it. And on and on. It hasn't come out before because he hasn't been in a national contest but I reached the conclusion some time ago from the glowing accounts in CounterPunch and his Pacifica interviews that he's a bit of a prevaricator who plays to an audience primed to mistrust Democrats.

[karynnj]

241. Ted Kennedy and others did the same thing

Voting not to fund the troops is obviously unacceptable to them - even when they are against the war.

On the bailout, he voted for the bill specifically dealing with the auto industry and against TARP 2 which was in the most part bailing out the big banks. He made it clear why AND his vote was not needed - so he could vote no in protest to the primary reason.

Bernie's political philosophy when he was mayor of Burlington in the 1980s is consistent with his positions now.

[LAS14]

230. Thanks for collecting this. nt