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Betty Karlson

(7,231 posts)
Sun Mar 13, 2016, 02:14 PM Mar 2016

Dear Mrs Clinton: some well-meant advice from an irrevocably lost voter

Dear Mrs, Clinton,

in regards to your hagiography of Mrs Nancy Reagan, you flimsy twitter-pology, and your belated elaboration of excuses cited here:

http://www.democraticunderground.com/12511481109

may I please point out to you why this is not quite going to cut it? Let me first point out a few talking points that irked a bit in their context, and then suggest what your next (and hopefully sincere) attempt at apologising should sound like.

Your elaboration sounded like a very cleaver speech-writer did his or her best to give everything the most positive, Hillary-centered spin. Unfortunately, there is nothing positive about any subject involving Nancy Reagan and AIDS. Furthermore: this is not about you. It's not even about your campaign. So that speech-writer of yours has served you ill, or you ignored his/her best advices. Only you can tell which.

To begin with: the me-too tone. "I lost friends too" - yeah but you still looked at gay people as inherently inferior to yourself until 2013, Hillary. "I lost friends too" gave you as much insight into the plight of the LGBT community as George W. Bush had when, as a Texas politician, he assured a gay assemblyman that "I have gay friends too, so this is nothing against you personally", and then did what he did best: marginalising our community.

No denouncing of the Reagan's role in the AIDS dialogue ("just let those queers die out&quot , only the admission that "they don't deserve the distinction of having started the conversation". They were just a few of "MANY in power who turned a blind eye". Hey, anyone did it right? (Were you, Little Mrs Me-Too? If so, how about a full admission that you were wrong at the time, and explain what - belatedly - made you change your outdated views?)

We "continue a fight together" - by shifting attention away from the way the LGBT community was effected (which the Clintons did very little to help) to Sub-Saharan Africa (where there are way more infected heteros and way more homophobes, so of course the Clintons are helping).

"This issue matters to me deeply" - hence my praise for the bitch who wanted to let the gay cancer work its genocidal magic. It's a mistake any true ally of the LGBT community could have made, right? I'm sure Bernie made some mistake too. Please someone try to be hurt by something Bernie actually said!

"If not for those advocates, activists, and ordinary, heroic people, we would not be where we are in preventing and treating HIV and AIDS. Their courage — and their refusal to accept silence as the status quo — saved lives." - So please vote for me: the status quo candidate par excellence! Let me be silent while you do the talking and the work.

"Slowly, too slowly, ignorance was crowded out by information. People who had once closed their eyes opened their hearts." - Except for me me me, because I was busy pandering to Reagan Democrats or whatever those aging DINO homophobes are called these days.

"Silence = Death" - I know that, which is why I acted as a hagiographer for the woman who deadpanned the conversation AIDS victims were desperate to start.


-----


Mrs Clinton, if I may give you some well-meant advice:

This stupid and over-the-top hurtful offense of yours has ripped open all the old wounds. DOMA DADT, "marriage is a sacred bond between man and woman", the whole record of vile bile you have campaigned on until 2013.

Halfheartedly admitting that the Reagan's do not deserve the distinction of starting the conversation on AIDS is hardly going to cut it, nor the "I have gay friends too / lost someone too".

If you want to reassure the LGBT community, you must understand that reputations come by foot, leave by horse, and return on their knees.

What little reputation you had ( "she will get things done&quot sped away on a derby-winning stallion yesterday. (Or was it a unicorn? Anyway, it's miles over the horizon now, and still accelerating. Because all those old wounds were ripped open too, you see?

If you care to win back your reputation, instead of taking gay votes for granted or writing them off like the millennials, consider this:

Make a speech with the core message: "I was wrong. Now I know better."
Make a speech where you denounce DADT as utterly wrong. Say how you have learned better.
Make a speech where you denounce DOMA. Just say Bill was wrong to sign it and wrong to campaign on it. He threw the gays under the bus; you must throw him under the bus. Gently, if you want to, but you must denounce his 1996 actions. Then you must say how wrong you were to support him in those actions, and what made you see the error of your ways.
Move on to marriage equality. Say why you were wrong to denounce it as recently as 2010, tell us what was your moment of epiphany, or when the first doubts started emerging in your mind, or whatever the process was that reshaped you bigoted mind into something palatable to the modern voter. You can even weave in some great feel-good story about your joy in 2015 when the gays won th right to marry in all of the USA. I mean, according to your twitter account you were overjoyed, so it shouldn't be too difficult for you to remember how momentous that moment was for you personally?

Get that all into one speech. "I was wrong; now I know better."

And then say how dreadfully sorry you were for that offensive remark. Denounce the Reagans. I'm sorry, but you'll have to throw that ugly-hearted gay-hater Nancy under the bus too. Denounce her silence.
And as for yourself, Mrs Clinton: don't just make some noise. Make sense.

Regards,

A very angry Betty.

80 replies = new reply since forum marked as read
Highlight: NoneDon't highlight anything 5 newestHighlight 5 most recent replies
Dear Mrs Clinton: some well-meant advice from an irrevocably lost voter (Original Post) Betty Karlson Mar 2016 OP
An irrevocably lost voter? SFnomad Mar 2016 #1
Go back a year, and I would have been wide open to overtures on her part. Betty Karlson Mar 2016 #3
Really? leftofcool Mar 2016 #42
She lacks common courtesy SCantiGOP Mar 2016 #63
Right now, I certainly do. Betty Karlson Mar 2016 #68
So, no response on substance, then? Jester Messiah Mar 2016 #6
As opposed to the deep substance of your insults? mythology Mar 2016 #19
I'm not trying to refute the OP. Jester Messiah Mar 2016 #61
Clearly Hillary has your vote. Is there ANYTHING she could do to lose it? BernieforPres2016 Mar 2016 #7
What Hillary supporters don't seem to understand is that she has to earn our vote. She has to give jillan Mar 2016 #9
What Hillary supporters fail to understand is that "Hillary because...woman" is not sufficient Kip Humphrey Mar 2016 #26
You just contradicted yourself. radiclib Mar 2016 #33
There will be other candidates on the ballot. Fawke Em Mar 2016 #37
Not a contradiction. I will not support her. Voting against the GOP does not equal support. jillan Mar 2016 #38
LOL, says the person with 35 posts! nt Logical Mar 2016 #10
35 posts SFnomad Mar 2016 #11
this place gets trolled alot, SFNomad. Low count thugs often come here and make mischief. roguevalley Mar 2016 #17
So now I'm being lumped in with "low count thugs" SFnomad Mar 2016 #22
Your ploy does not function here. Bluenorthwest Mar 2016 #25
Actually - Mother Of Four Mar 2016 #27
One small part of the premise? SFnomad Mar 2016 #34
Did you even READ Betty's post? Mother Of Four Mar 2016 #35
You have been around long enough to read most of her/his/Betty's posts? No. DhhD Mar 2016 #43
and since you don't know them you could be wrong roguevalley Mar 2016 #44
no, clown. I was explaining that posters remark roguevalley Mar 2016 #40
Clown? SFnomad Mar 2016 #56
Because that really sounded like a "thug" Kittycat Mar 2016 #28
I knew you would say that. I said some do this and roguevalley Mar 2016 #39
You knew I would. Okay. Kittycat Mar 2016 #50
You've been a member for over seven years, posted less than 50 times and sarge43 Mar 2016 #47
you're probably right dlwickham Mar 2016 #62
Well, durn... chervilant Mar 2016 #64
I cannot add anything to your excellent post except K&R. Thank you! n/t CaliforniaPeggy Mar 2016 #2
You are most welcome. Betty Karlson Mar 2016 #74
Well said azretired Mar 2016 #4
Righteous! Bravo and so so very true Arazi Mar 2016 #5
Betty, even if Hillary made that speech you want BernieforPres2016 Mar 2016 #8
That is true. But she ought to try nevertheless. nt SusanCalvin Mar 2016 #24
Hillary's name means more in the LGBT community than Bernie's. We never heard of him before 2015. Metric System Mar 2016 #12
What we heard from Clinton before 2013 didn't make us happy, Metric. Betty Karlson Mar 2016 #13
And yet he was defending lgbt rights for 30 some years Voice for Peace Mar 2016 #14
so metric system, how about googling his decades long efforts? And I don't think because you might roguevalley Mar 2016 #18
To my utter gay amazement n/t ejbr Mar 2016 #20
Who the fuck do you think you're speaking for??? ibegurpard Mar 2016 #30
TOLD! Jester Messiah Mar 2016 #59
Well I had heard of him through Jesse Jackson's campaigns. Bluenorthwest Mar 2016 #31
The well-trodden "never heard of him" cop out Laughing Mirror Mar 2016 #41
You are arguing with the person who called Hillary a homophobe. leftofcool Mar 2016 #45
I heard quite a bit about HRC before 2013, you know Kelvin Mace Mar 2016 #49
This message was self-deleted by its author Matt_R Mar 2016 #66
{shifty eyes} Not sure if sarcasm or really a HRC supporter. {/shifty eyes} Matt_R Mar 2016 #67
I did elljay Mar 2016 #54
Then I guess you never paid attention to politics. HERVEPA Mar 2016 #57
WE? Speak for yourself, you do not speak for the GLBT Bohunk68 Mar 2016 #58
all those old wounds were ripped open too, you see? Kalidurga Mar 2016 #15
I'm sorry for your loss. Betty Karlson Mar 2016 #16
I am sorry my aunt had to go through that Kalidurga Mar 2016 #48
Yes, HRC's weather vane zentrum Mar 2016 #21
As the weather vane spins. Cassiopeia Mar 2016 #23
... Mother Of Four Mar 2016 #29
Thanks for those sweet words. Betty Karlson Mar 2016 #69
Clinton would be utterly incapable TM99 Mar 2016 #32
You are very correct. I am still just trying to digest that anyone in our Party could think such a Bluenorthwest Mar 2016 #36
I think I just threw up. So was she the one who nudged Obama to invite Warren Betty Karlson Mar 2016 #70
zzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzz leftofcool Mar 2016 #46
Yes, that is about as serious as anyone on Clinton's side takes LGBT issues. Betty Karlson Mar 2016 #71
1991- ACT-UP Protest at Bush's Home in Kennebunkport Maine Bluenorthwest Mar 2016 #51
K.R 99Forever Mar 2016 #52
You know Betty, your right.... markj757 Mar 2016 #53
blah blah blah fear the scary boogeyman. Jester Messiah Mar 2016 #60
like I wrote..... markj757 Mar 2016 #65
The lesser of two evil is still evil. Betty Karlson Mar 2016 #73
Do you know when you lost this argument? Right here: Betty Karlson Mar 2016 #72
to say I lost that argument...... markj757 Mar 2016 #75
Your entitled and arrogant worldview must be a great comfort to you. Betty Karlson Mar 2016 #76
A little commentary about Nancy, Ronnie and Bonzo. Manifestor_of_Light Mar 2016 #55
thanks Betty for the morning tears floppyboo Mar 2016 #77
We will mourn the losses, for they are many. Betty Karlson Mar 2016 #78
Betty: Fact over 25000 Americans were dead. Protalker Mar 2016 #79
Bernie will win the nomination, then crush whichever loon heads the GOP ticket. Betty Karlson Mar 2016 #80
 

SFnomad

(3,473 posts)
1. An irrevocably lost voter?
Sun Mar 13, 2016, 02:17 PM
Mar 2016

Somehow, I doubt she ever had your vote to begin with or ever could get it.

 

Jester Messiah

(4,711 posts)
6. So, no response on substance, then?
Sun Mar 13, 2016, 02:27 PM
Mar 2016

Just an insinuation that since OP was never a truly loyal subject of Her Majesty, nothing she wrote is worth addressing?

 

Jester Messiah

(4,711 posts)
61. I'm not trying to refute the OP.
Sun Mar 13, 2016, 04:56 PM
Mar 2016

You were being dismissive on flimsy grounds so I called you out on it. Sorry if that hurts your feelings or makes you feel "insulted."

jillan

(39,451 posts)
9. What Hillary supporters don't seem to understand is that she has to earn our vote. She has to give
Sun Mar 13, 2016, 02:35 PM
Mar 2016

us a reason to vote for her. So far -nothing.

I am not going to vote FOR Hillary either, I will vote against the GOP nominee.

Kip Humphrey

(4,753 posts)
26. What Hillary supporters fail to understand is that "Hillary because...woman" is not sufficient
Sun Mar 13, 2016, 04:05 PM
Mar 2016

reason in and of itself. Its all the reason they need so they looked no further. Since they only have that and a resume, they simply cannot convince anyone on the issues.

radiclib

(1,811 posts)
33. You just contradicted yourself.
Sun Mar 13, 2016, 04:14 PM
Mar 2016

If you are going to vote against the GOP nominee anyway, Hillary does NOT have to earn your vote or give you a reason to vote for her. Don't think she doesn't know this. It is pure DLC strategy.

jillan

(39,451 posts)
38. Not a contradiction. I will not support her. Voting against the GOP does not equal support.
Sun Mar 13, 2016, 04:20 PM
Mar 2016

I get very involved before elections, make calls, do what I can.

I will not be doing any of that for her. I'll put my energy into local seats (calling for the dem trying to beat McCain).
If the nominee is Bernie - I will be calling, knocking on doors, doing all that I can to get his word out.

But in the end I will not for the gop.



 

SFnomad

(3,473 posts)
11. 35 posts
Sun Mar 13, 2016, 02:44 PM
Mar 2016

There was a time when you only had 35 posts. Were your posts worth less then?

Dismissing someone because of the number of posts they have reveals more about you than it does about me.

Now that I have 36 posts, am I worthy yet?

roguevalley

(40,656 posts)
17. this place gets trolled alot, SFNomad. Low count thugs often come here and make mischief.
Sun Mar 13, 2016, 03:30 PM
Mar 2016

what the problem was, you had nothing to say about the content. After reading that, your only comment was the poster was never someone on HRC's side even though they said so. That's why you're looked at with suspicion for the good or bad of it. How about a comment on the content? That will help.

 

SFnomad

(3,473 posts)
22. So now I'm being lumped in with "low count thugs"
Sun Mar 13, 2016, 03:53 PM
Mar 2016

You might want to take a look at the replies to my single opinion.

I was replied to by several posters around here who acted far more thuggish than I. You might want to take a look in the mirror.



Mother Of Four

(1,716 posts)
27. Actually -
Sun Mar 13, 2016, 04:06 PM
Mar 2016

I'm pretty sure no one was saying you're a "low count thug", in fact I'm pretty sure you were getting an explanation of WHY some react they way they do to low post counts.

You didn't respond to the content, you only attacked one small part of the premise of a post. One that took the OP quite a while to type out that they put some serious thought into. It would really serve you well to comment on that, even if you don't agree, instead of basically calling them a liar.

Does that make any better sense as to why you got the reaction you did?

 

SFnomad

(3,473 posts)
34. One small part of the premise?
Sun Mar 13, 2016, 04:14 PM
Mar 2016

It was in the topic of the post, let me refresh your memory ... "Dear Mrs Clinton: some well-meant advice from an irrevocably lost voter"

It's my experience when someone declares with such drama that they now just can't bring themselves to vote for someone ... they never intended to vote for that person, ever.

Kittycat

(10,493 posts)
28. Because that really sounded like a "thug"
Sun Mar 13, 2016, 04:06 PM
Mar 2016

I can't believe you just posted that. So disappointed. And sometimes the bullies have been here forever.

roguevalley

(40,656 posts)
39. I knew you would say that. I said some do this and
Sun Mar 13, 2016, 04:23 PM
Mar 2016

It was not him. It was informational as you well know. Sad.

sarge43

(28,940 posts)
47. You've been a member for over seven years, posted less than 50 times and
Sun Mar 13, 2016, 04:28 PM
Mar 2016

yet you're able to read another member's mind.

Mad skills you have there.

dlwickham

(3,316 posts)
62. you're probably right
Sun Mar 13, 2016, 05:02 PM
Mar 2016

all this false outrage from people who wouldn't vote for Hillary no matter what

chervilant

(8,267 posts)
64. Well, durn...
Sun Mar 13, 2016, 05:17 PM
Mar 2016

I wondered (for a brief moment) how I missed putting you on my IL. Then, I saw your post count, and realized I likely haven't seen any of your other pro-Hi11ary posts.

No problem: better late than never, etc.

Feeling the BERN!!!

#NotMeUs

 

azretired

(31 posts)
4. Well said
Sun Mar 13, 2016, 02:20 PM
Mar 2016

Thank you for this post. I grow so weary of hearing of her latest conversion to whatever is now popular truth.

BernieforPres2016

(3,017 posts)
8. Betty, even if Hillary made that speech you want
Sun Mar 13, 2016, 02:32 PM
Mar 2016

Is there anybody who would believe it, who would think that it wasn't driven by the political calculation as with virtually every other thing she does?

 

Betty Karlson

(7,231 posts)
13. What we heard from Clinton before 2013 didn't make us happy, Metric.
Sun Mar 13, 2016, 03:01 PM
Mar 2016

But thanks for trying to derail the thread.

roguevalley

(40,656 posts)
18. so metric system, how about googling his decades long efforts? And I don't think because you might
Sun Mar 13, 2016, 03:31 PM
Mar 2016

not know it that you speak for the entire gay community.

ibegurpard

(16,685 posts)
30. Who the fuck do you think you're speaking for???
Sun Mar 13, 2016, 04:09 PM
Mar 2016

"We" had heard of him LONG before that. Speak for yourself.

 

Jester Messiah

(4,711 posts)
59. TOLD!
Sun Mar 13, 2016, 04:52 PM
Mar 2016

TOLD STATUS:
{ }NOT TOLD
{x} TOLD
{x} FUCKING TOLD
{x} CASH4TOLD.COM
{x} KNIGHTS OF THE TOLD REPUBLIC
{x} STONE TOLD STEVE AUSTIN
{x} CURE FOR THE COMMON TOLD
{x} TEXAS TOLD’EM
{x} NO COUNTRY FOR TOLD MEN
{x} 24 CARAT TOLD
{x} TOLD SPICE
{x} TOLD STONE CREAMERY
{x} BABY IT’S TOLD OUTSIDE
{x} TOLD YELLER
{x} THE TOLD AND THE BEAUTIFUL
{x} CAN’T TEACH A TOLD DOG NEW TRICKS
{x} TOLD MACDONALD HAD A FARM
{x} THE TOLD MAN AND THE SEA
{x} TOLD MEDAL WINNER AT THE OLYMPICS
{x} ALL OF THE ABOVE

 

Bluenorthwest

(45,319 posts)
31. Well I had heard of him through Jesse Jackson's campaigns.
Sun Mar 13, 2016, 04:09 PM
Mar 2016

And followed his career from that time forward. I'm sure millions more learned his name when they studied the list of courageous Congress persons who voted No on DOMA, it was not that long a list. Not everyone is like you, not paying attention, not taking part.
And of course LGBT and our allies in Vermont and neighboring States sure as hell knew Bernie.

My LGBT friends are very politically active and very informed people for the most part. The majority are for Bernie, and one of them is extremely active in the Bernie campaign in an upcoming very important State. She really hated those Reagan comments because like me, she was an activist back then as well.....

Laughing Mirror

(4,185 posts)
41. The well-trodden "never heard of him" cop out
Sun Mar 13, 2016, 04:24 PM
Mar 2016

Well I'm the LGBT community and the name Hillary means shit to me.

 

Kelvin Mace

(17,469 posts)
49. I heard quite a bit about HRC before 2013, you know
Sun Mar 13, 2016, 04:32 PM
Mar 2016

Her support for DADT, and DOMA. But recently it is her praise of the Reagans that impressed me most

Response to Kelvin Mace (Reply #49)

Matt_R

(456 posts)
67. {shifty eyes} Not sure if sarcasm or really a HRC supporter. {/shifty eyes}
Sun Mar 13, 2016, 09:34 PM
Mar 2016

The reagans were a horrible couple that torpedoed our country into the deepest right wing hole that we are still trying to dig ourselves out of.

Bohunk68

(1,364 posts)
58. WE? Speak for yourself, you do not speak for the GLBT
Sun Mar 13, 2016, 04:51 PM
Mar 2016

community. At least he supported us before Her Majesty that waited until the Supremes said OK. We, indeed.

Kalidurga

(14,177 posts)
15. all those old wounds were ripped open too, you see?
Sun Mar 13, 2016, 03:09 PM
Mar 2016

I never thought a 24 year old old wound could be ripped open so completely. You never forget the look on an aunts face when she tells you her husband, your uncle has AIDS and he will die soon. You don't forget how it looks when there is an empty space next to your aunt when he is too ill to attend family functions and worse when he has passed.

Kalidurga

(14,177 posts)
48. I am sorry my aunt had to go through that
Sun Mar 13, 2016, 04:30 PM
Mar 2016

For me I was an adult when I went to a family function in 1990, my uncle was at that one he had lost a lot of weight. He wasn't smiling and happy and telling jokes in his subtle way. He had a hard time listening to people around him for very long and he was known as a great listener. A few months later he wasn't able to attend anymore so I saw my aunt being lonely. That is what hit me the most, the loss a family faces when something could have been prevented and wasn't. I am so po'd right now. I changed my facebook pic to having a rainbow on it even though I don't see this exactly as a gay issue. You know why because it isn't. Even if my uncle was gay and everyone can be like oh well he got the gay disease, I still freaking lost my uncle asshole. Because I seriously don't care what someone is or isn't when they are my family, hell there are Republicans in my family. I will be sad if they die before I do. My grandfather who was a well not nice person died and I was sad. He was my grandfather and whatever it was he did in his personal life well he is still my grandfather. My uncle though he was a really genuinely nice person with a shy smile and a way of making people feel better.

Cassiopeia

(2,603 posts)
23. As the weather vane spins.
Sun Mar 13, 2016, 03:54 PM
Mar 2016

It's like an afternoon soap opera, a really poorly written one at that.

Awesome post Betty

 

TM99

(8,352 posts)
32. Clinton would be utterly incapable
Sun Mar 13, 2016, 04:11 PM
Mar 2016

of giving such a speech.

It would be like asking a demon to help with communion in a Catholic mass. She is simply never going to do that.

 

Bluenorthwest

(45,319 posts)
36. You are very correct. I am still just trying to digest that anyone in our Party could think such a
Sun Mar 13, 2016, 04:17 PM
Mar 2016

thing. It's disturbing to the core.
She has to do a full and actual accounting of what Reagan and Nancy and the rest of them actually did. But she likes to excuse the straights for their brutal negligence and heartless treatment of people of LGBT and people with AIDS.

She spoke on World AIDS Day at Rick Warren's Saddleback Church. Yeah. She lavished praise on Rick and his people and she said 'gay' 4 times in an AIDS speech. She only said 'gay' in order to excuse herself and the faith community for their atrocious actions.
This is 2007, mind you: "Twenty-five years ago, when men - mostly young gay men - began dying from a disease that had no name, we could not have, and certainly did not, talk about it in church. It would not have been proper. It would not have been polite. It would have been discomforting for so many of us.

But the disease itself was not polite, and ignoring it did not make it go away. It only made the problem worse, because the disease fed on ignorance and fear and, let's be honest, on prejudice."

So self serving and all about the poor Christians asked to serve those in need. 'We could not. It would have been discomforting to so many of us'.

http://www.presidency.ucsb.edu/ws/?pid=77080

 

Betty Karlson

(7,231 posts)
70. I think I just threw up. So was she the one who nudged Obama to invite Warren
Mon Mar 14, 2016, 02:33 AM
Mar 2016

for the inaugural prayer, right after Prop H8 was passed? I wouldn't put it past her. She is a silent homophobe, and always has been.

 

Bluenorthwest

(45,319 posts)
51. 1991- ACT-UP Protest at Bush's Home in Kennebunkport Maine
Sun Mar 13, 2016, 04:34 PM
Mar 2016

In the summer of 1991, thousands of ACT UP activists descended on the resort town of Kennebunkport where the family of then President George H. W. Bush had a summer home. Bush’s lack of attention to AIDS followed the same bigoted, murderous agenda of his predecessor Ronald Reagan.
http://actuparchive.stevehuggins.com/?tag=kennebunkport-action

 

markj757

(194 posts)
53. You know Betty, your right....
Sun Mar 13, 2016, 04:35 PM
Mar 2016

and when Hillary looses, I'm sure President Trump or President Cruz will welcome you and your community with open arms. And yes....of course I'm being sarcastic, but my point is this....I may prefer Hillary over Bernie in the primary, but as long as Bernie wins fair and square (without the need for super delegates), I would be honored to vote for Bernie and call him my President. I won't even waste my time trying to convince the Bernie folks on DU of doing the same, but if we loose this election, (which will most likely mean loosing a Supreme Court pic to swing the court), I will be curious to see what every Bernie supporter (who won't vote for Hillary) posts over the next 4 to 8 years. I'm sure their post will mostly be about their so called principled stand they took to stop Hillary from becoming President at any cost, and not about the damage being inflicted on our great country by a Trump or Cruz Presidency. And if damage sounds like hyperbole or over the top language, just remember the Iraq War and the sacrifices we made in blood and treasure because of a misguided neo-con republican President who was only incompetent. Now imagine how much damage an extreme right wing nut job like Trump or Cruz can do to this country with the full power of the Presidency.

 

Jester Messiah

(4,711 posts)
60. blah blah blah fear the scary boogeyman.
Sun Mar 13, 2016, 04:55 PM
Mar 2016

Fear will keep the outer systems in line, eh Grand Moff Tarkin?

 

markj757

(194 posts)
65. like I wrote.....
Sun Mar 13, 2016, 08:04 PM
Mar 2016

attempting to try and convince Bernie supporters of anything substantive on DU is a waste of time. Like Bernie said himself, Hillary will be far much better than anyone the republicans can nominate. But then again, who is he, just the candidate you claim to support. Thank you for proving my point.

 

Betty Karlson

(7,231 posts)
73. The lesser of two evil is still evil.
Mon Mar 14, 2016, 02:42 AM
Mar 2016

But trying to argue that with the supporters of an incorrigeable homophobe is like trying to play chess with pidgeons: it won't work and you'll only get crap from them.

 

Betty Karlson

(7,231 posts)
72. Do you know when you lost this argument? Right here:
Mon Mar 14, 2016, 02:39 AM
Mar 2016

"just remember the Iraq War and the sacrifices we made in blood and treasure because of a misguided neo-con republican President"

- Senator Hillary Clinton (D-NY) gave that war her unconditional support!

Yeah, I remember that. Do you?

 

markj757

(194 posts)
75. to say I lost that argument......
Mon Mar 14, 2016, 10:32 AM
Mar 2016

because she voted for the war in Iraq is ridiculous. If I lost that argument, then once again, so did the candidate you supposedly support, who made the same exact argument. And I'm sure if he looses this primary fair and square, he will make this same argument again as he campaigns for her across this country. That on her worst day, Hillary Clinton is by far so much better for this country than anyone the republicans can nominate. And just because they have done battle in this primary, does not make them enemies, and does not make her evil. But then again, why listen to Bernie, he is only the honest and decent man you claim to support. I know one thing, if Bernie looses this primary, I look forward to his support of Hillary and his strong endorsement of her presidential campaign, and most importantly, his vote.

 

Manifestor_of_Light

(21,046 posts)
55. A little commentary about Nancy, Ronnie and Bonzo.
Sun Mar 13, 2016, 04:42 PM
Mar 2016

Laughed my ass off because this was so goddamn weird.


Genesis - Land of Confusion

floppyboo

(2,461 posts)
77. thanks Betty for the morning tears
Mon Mar 14, 2016, 10:44 AM
Mar 2016

Something in what you wrote has me weeping, and it is a great relief to be genuinely sad rather than angry.
Thank you

Protalker

(418 posts)
79. Betty: Fact over 25000 Americans were dead.
Mon Mar 14, 2016, 11:02 AM
Mar 2016

Before Ronnie addressed AIDS. I went to Washington for the first quilt.
Today we have Cruz cozy with a preacher calling for death to gays. We need and would miss your vote.
Dorothy

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