2016 Postmortem
Related: About this forumI hope Debbie Wasserman-Schultz is watching CNN.
All they can talk about is Democrats crossing over in Ohio. This is her fault and the fault of all Third Way democrats who have destroyed our party and what it stands for. Democrats are leaving in droves. I wonder if she is fiddling while Rome burns?
Aerows
(39,961 posts)to describe how she has functioned in her position as chair.
FreakinDJ
(17,644 posts)Maybe she is playing both sides of the fence
Punkingal
(9,522 posts)She has refused to support Democrats in Florida who were running against Republican "friends" for Congress.
appalachiablue
(41,182 posts)brooklynite
(94,792 posts)GeorgiaPeanuts
(2,353 posts)Ferd Berfel
(3,687 posts)and the hundreds of State offices all over the Country including Governors?
She's been an utter failure, if You want Democrats in office
hollysmom
(5,946 posts)as did the DNCC - you can get support and get included in their fundraising only if you meet certain goals, this candidate met the goals, and they raised the bar, this happened like 5 times. I give directly to specific candidates now.
Ferd Berfel
(3,687 posts)The DNC needs to go down in flames. Maybe down the road someone can rebuild it (Bernie) but they haven't gotten any money (directly) from me in decades. Bout the time they were sold to the Koch Bros
JackRiddler
(24,979 posts)then everything's great. Lose seats everywhere constantly, but hey, incumbent Obama beat a wet rag, so that must be to her credit!
brooklynite
(94,792 posts)She Chairs the DNC. She raises money. She works to develop State Party resources. She coordinates planning for the Convention.
CalvinballPro
(1,019 posts)But once again, the BernieBros have a convenient woman to blame for everything. Watch your back, Elizabeth Warren!
hollysmom
(5,946 posts)person who created the phrase bernie bros admitted it was false, I think the supporters of Sanders would have no problem with Warren as that was who most originally supported. Facts have a liberal bias.
Bjornsdotter
(6,123 posts)...that DWS should get her thumb off of the scale and do her job in an impartial manner. The fact that she is woman has no bearing on this issue.
Jefferson23
(30,099 posts)LondonReign2
(5,213 posts)Ferd Berfel
(3,687 posts)InAbLuEsTaTe
(24,123 posts)hollysmom
(5,946 posts)Ferd Berfel
(3,687 posts)Give THAT as a base I think it's very easy to see which side she's on - all of the time
musiclawyer
(2,335 posts)The anger is misplaced
Aerows
(39,961 posts)The anger at her incompetence is well founded. Now I realize that Obama should have canned her long ago, but she's still awful.
fredamae
(4,458 posts)nor incompetent. She has kept her job, by imo-actually Doing her Job.......basically rewarded for Losing over 900 Dem seats around the country....Isn't this more like an agenda? To rip apart the last threads of the Dem Wing of the party, at this juncture?
The "gerrymandering" of delegates, depression of competing Dem Candidates.....the Debates limits, on and on.
The optics....
tabasco
(22,974 posts)but I do wonder how in the hell she's still in that position.
fredamae
(4,458 posts)of any other scenario at this point.
Having been a Dem virtually my whole long assed life...this is hard to see. It's hard to wrap my head around it, frankly -
Al From...Bill Clinton...Reagan Dems circa 1990 and Reganism changed the Dem Party.
In my opinion, of course
erlewyne
(1,115 posts)Maybe we have a new party evolving. It never
crossed my mind before but for years now when
I challenge my Republican friends they always say,
the Democrats do it too! And, they were right.
I have worked with unions all my life and my fellows
would always either not vote or vote republican.
I am a democrat and I voted for Bernie this morning.
JDPriestly
(57,936 posts)Aerows
(39,961 posts)how anyone could justify her being in that position anymore, either.
It isn't idle griping just to gripe; Democrats have lost a ton of seats since she took over.
appalachiablue
(41,182 posts)840high
(17,196 posts)position because she's doing what the elite want.
Merryland
(1,134 posts)arcane1
(38,613 posts)Now we'll have TWO corporate parties and the "fucking retards" have no place to go.
People need to realize that "The Party" is NOT on our side!!
Renew Deal
(81,883 posts)JDPriestly
(57,936 posts)Maybe it is state loyalty.
This may bode well for Bernie. Maybe they just don't want to vote for Hillary but don't know much about Bernie.
Renew Deal
(81,883 posts)At least that's been the vibe over the last two days. I don't know if this weekend pushed people over the line. They probably see the Dem race wrapped up which it more or less is.
Zambero
(8,974 posts)It appears that by a 10-7 margin that more Ohio independents are opting to cast ballots in the Democratic primary than Republican. The number of voters actually changing their party affiliation is MUCH MUCH smaller than the number of independent crossovers, and the GOP shows a slight edge. As for crossovers of registered Democrats (presumably to vote for OR against Trump?), with a clear choice between Bernie and Hillary, I don't see how this can be attributed to DWS. On the other side of the fence, all evidence points to a massive block of GOP voters cannot stomach and would not vote for Trump in the general election under any circumstances.
riversedge
(70,350 posts)Aerows
(39,961 posts)since she was installed as chair?
I was under the impression that the chair was supposed to aid in getting *more* Democrats elected, not fewer.
If that isn't her job, that's one thing. If her job is to help get more Democrats elected, though, her performance in that position has been nothing short of abysmal.
Facts are facts, numbers are numbers. It would be wildly casting blame if there was no basis for the complaints, but if you look at how our party on the whole has done since she has been leading it, there is absolutely no way you could say that she has done a good job.
CalvinballPro
(1,019 posts)FFS, is this your first election or something?
hollysmom
(5,946 posts)funding or by promotional support. She is not managing the office to get he job done.
in 2014 she funneled most money to DINOs not to progressives and those DINOS lost (why vote for a fake republican when you can vote for a real one?), she openly discourages progressives.
So if you want to be the party of republican light, than support her, but if you would like to see some progressiveness again and win back the senate and congress, well, throw the bum out.
you either do your job or you don't. she is doing the pay day lenders job.
CalvinballPro
(1,019 posts)Speaking of not doing a job, when was the last time Sanders did his?
Edit:
http://www.vocativ.com/news/291158/bernie-sanders-has-a-worse-voting-record-than-rubio-or-cruz/
Take Bernie Sanders. The Vermont senator missed 96.2 percent of roll call votes since the beginning of the year, worse than the other two senators running for president, Ted Cruz and Marco Rubio, according to voting records tracked by CSPAN.
hollysmom
(5,946 posts)funding the quasi republican candidates which lost. i.e. funding and resources for losing candidates only. NOT DOING the JOB.,
Now if you reply to what I was posting, I will reply to other questions, Otherwise I am staying on topic and you can start another OP.
JDPriestly
(57,936 posts)Besides, thanks in part to Debbie Wasserman Schultz's poor leadership and inability to inspire candidates and voters across the country, the Republicans have a majority and it is very hard for a progressive Democrat to do anything or even get a word in edgewise.
I want to see Bernie in the White House. I'm not from Vermont, but based on the results of their primary, I'd say that Vermont voters want to see him there too.
Feel the Bern!
CalvinballPro
(1,019 posts)JDPriestly
(57,936 posts)Again, I'm sure that DWS is a nice person. Apparently her constituents are happy with her performance in Congress.
BUT -- she is not an effective representative of the Democratic Party in the media. Howard Dean was much, much better.
Maybe it is something new that Party leaders need to consider when picking a DNC chair -- his or her media savvy and appeal.
Times change. Sometimes it's hard to change with them. That is certainly what the Democratic Party is learning right now. To have to have a challenger for the presidential nomination who served as an Independent in Congress for so many years and who is presenting an entirely new approach toward governing for voters and to have that challenger succeeding to the extent that Bernie is indicates that the Democratic Party needs a full review of its approach and its strategy as well as its platform.
Happy Days Are Here Again. If you know the history of that song, you will understand that it really is a time for a democratic revolution in the Democratic Party. We have some really, really good Democrats here in California. But some Democrats in the rest of the country are just as conservative and backward and unable to solve problems as are their Republican counterparts.
Part of the job of politicians in a democracy is to present new ideas. That is one of the reasons I prefer Bernie to Hillary even though as a woman I would like to see a woman in the White House.
Bernie is presenting goals and talking the morality of politics to American voters. That's rather refreshing. Obama talked it but when he got into office, he acquiesced to a lot of corruption. I think it is really hard for a person as nice as Obama to point fingers at the evil around him.
I don't think that pointing fingers at immoral, corrupt behavior is at all difficult for Bernie. That's one of the many reasons I like him. We need a Jeremiah, an Amos, a Jesus in the White House for a change. And Bernie is closer to those great spiritual leaders than is Hillary.
CalvinballPro
(1,019 posts)JDPriestly
(57,936 posts)I know him from political events but not as a personal friend.
He is a Stanford law school graduate I believe, and he can really explain things well.
I was first impressed with him when, at our local high school lunchroom, he explained to everyone how Social Security works. A lot of the people in the crowd were immigrants who did not speak great English. He was able to explain how Social Security works and why it is important in both English and Spanish.
He is a wonderful person from what I can tell and has a great personality. In addition, he is really sharp on explaining issues in language people can understand regardless of their mother tongue.
We need him or someone like him as the DNC chair.
My mother who lived in Ohio saw him on TV and was so impressed that she called me to tell me how much she liked him. She was in her early 90s at the time.
Now he should be DNC chair.
CalvinballPro
(1,019 posts)put on her in her role as DNC Chair by people on the Left. To me it seems like a largely thankless job herding cats. The Democratic Party is also varied in terms of demographics, in that there are conservative Democrats, moderate Democrats, liberal Democrats, and progressive Democrats. How does anyone please all those factions at once without angering any of them?
It's just ridiculous to pin the losses of dozens of campaigns, all run by different candidates and their staffs, onto one woman. I don't care how much the Left despises her; it's not fair.
JDPriestly
(57,936 posts)recent years have managed to offend an awful lot of progressive Democrats.
That is clear from just a quick survey of the posts here on DU.
A truly moderate leader of the Party, a socially adept leader of the Party would be able to accommodate and understand the many points of view and needs of members of our Party.
We have not had such a leader in a number of years.
Tact is a wonderful quality. So is a loving personality. I do not want to disparage any specific individuals any further. But some people have the grace (like Obama) to project love and to respond with tact, and some don't.
It just is not very smart to place at the head of the DNC a person who is not as tactful or who cannot project a positive outlook and personality. We need someone different. There are lots of capable candidates. I know Xavier Becerra (not on a personal level but as a politician and representative of my community) and would recommend him strongly.
Aerows
(39,961 posts)to get caustic replies from someone that has barely been on this site for a week.
Ugly remarks from people that are new here always make me go ... hmmm.
May I suggest that before darting into threads to flame others that you reconsider your method of winning friends and influencing people you barely know?
EDIT: Oh look, you already have a hide with only 57 posts in. Do enjoy your stay here.
CalvinballPro
(1,019 posts)You're not the first troll to try and rub being new to DU in my face somehow. If you're a representative of DU's progressive wing, then not knowing you seems far preferable to the alternative.
Bluenorthwest
(45,319 posts)'None of you will remember but Ron and Nancy started the AIDS conversation no one else would have' leaves everyone else on Earth miles to do before entering the territory of rhetorical irresponsibility of your reckless candidate and he total lack of knowledge of the history she herself lived through.
JDPriestly
(57,936 posts)on the Democratic side.
I have a sense that Debbie Wasserman Schultz is loyal and reliable but not very creative and resourceful.
At this time, we need people who are creative and resourceful. That is the problem with DWS. She is not the right person at the right time.
She also does not give the impression that she is lighthearted or can have fun, and voters want to vote for a party that makes them feel upbeat. Debbie Wasserman Schultz always seems cross, angry, annoyed. She does not exude enthusiasm or pride. And it is enthusiasm and pride and courage that get people out to vote.
nadinbrzezinski
(154,021 posts)We have CNN-I at mom's, and their coverage of the race has been far less ahem, strident. (And propaganda filled).
That said, if conservadems are crossing over, that is bad for Clinton. But today, I cannot enjoy a cheap read like last weak, boy was that fun.
bunnies
(15,859 posts)Again. Go figure.
Punkingal
(9,522 posts)bunnies
(15,859 posts)I was just going by the callers into Ari Rabin-Havt's show this morning. Many Clinton - Kasich crossovers. Trump now too? None of the Bernie people were crossing over though.
Kittycat
(10,493 posts)Nobody wants Clinton. It's Kasisch's home field, and surprise-surprise, the Independents are breaking left. What do you want to bet, they broke for Bernie? We have lost so many Dems because of party abandonment of ideals and the race for the right. Those indies are center, they're left!
bunnies
(15,859 posts)The indies are center myth is dead. The Democratic party should be thanking Bernie for helping them identify so many lost party members. Question now is, what will they do with that information? Keep moving right and lose more Dems? Or go left and bring them home.
Kittycat
(10,493 posts)Look around here. That appears to be the plan.
bunnies
(15,859 posts)How small does the party have to be before they wake up?
Kittycat
(10,493 posts)Since they're clearly unhappy with democrats, and want to be republicans that sometimes support women's rights and gay rights or wage improvements, when it polls well enough to get an extra vote or two.
bunnies
(15,859 posts)Its clearer than ever that we don't all share the same core values. I think both parties are headed for a split. Just a matter of when.
BainsBane
(53,093 posts)In making phone calls I've come across a number of them, more than I have Bernie supporters. I should make clear I was calling for Missouri, but I found similar crossover against Trump in Minnesota, though there they didn't outnumber Bernie supporters.
BainsBane
(53,093 posts)Is that your argument? That doesn't say much for Bernie, does it?
stevenleser
(32,886 posts)SMH
BainsBane
(53,093 posts)or how they don't understand they are in effect arguing against the appeal of their own candidate.
Jefferson23
(30,099 posts)disaffected voters are now going, taking a chance with Trump.
It would be a mistake to presume all these voters are racists, and
that is their main motivation. What we're seeing across the board
are reactions to disappointment and how far that will take a loose
cannon ( Trump) is yet to be seen.
That is how I interpret the OP, it is not a good reflection on our
party overall..meaning trust and our message and can we deliver
has fallen short. I prefer to try and learn from these bizarre times
we are in..and it is difficult to measure accurately right now.
BainsBane
(53,093 posts)according to the OP.
Whether or not they are racist, white rage is a central impulse in this campaign. The entire discourse about the demise of America is about the decline of the white male middle and upper-middle class. America was "great" during Jim Crow, before women had access to decent employment, before anyone but those born into a particular race, class, and gender had any shot at what they believed was an American dream. I might be more sympathetic if the discourse and presentation of history did not exclude the vast majority of Americans. So no, I'm not willing to go back to the days when those people thought America was great. I have seen far too much of that ultra conservative mentality take control of the Democratic Party already.
To ignore the fact that prosperity, indeed the very conception of freedom, for whites in this country was built upon the subjugation of non-whites, and slaves in particular, ignores the very birth of the concepts at the heart of our nation. It is not coincidental that much of the rhetoric about the demise of America corresponds historically with the rise of equal rights for the majority. Trump makes that connection explicit in a way other candidates only hint at.
Note the frequent claims that poverty is now worse than at any point in history. It is not. It is substantially lower than in the 30s and even the 70s. Yet one demographic has experienced economic decline. Yet that experience is described as universal, as though the rest of us are inconsequential.
Jefferson23
(30,099 posts)No, that is one reaction from the racists, but as I said, it would
be a mistake to presume that these crossovers are all or even
most about that sentiment. I say this when looking at our lower
voter turnout too..overall. I think we'll eventually learn there is
correlation between that and Trump receiving some of our voters.
With that said, I am happy to lose any racists to Trump. The GOP establishment
should disavow Trump now then move to the center and let him collect all the idiots
to begin a Third Party. There are not enough of them to win the WH. He has
effectively ended the Republican Party as we know it regardless. I don't
ever expect the GOP establishment to do the responsible thing, but what a mess
..to put it lightly. Have you noticed not one Republican candidate has said
vote for me over Trump and I promise you I will not allow trade deals to hurt
your future..not one as far as I am aware..which is part of the Trump appeal.
BainsBane
(53,093 posts)The Democratic one is disconcerting enough as it is.
Whether or not DWS should be replaced has nothing to do with the claims the OP makes. It is clear to me that people many have no idea what the DNC actually does. DWS is a scapegoat for everything, much of which has nothing to do with the DNC.
The upset about Democrats defecting to support Trump indicates people seem to think those votes belong to Bernie, which in itself is revealing.
Jefferson23
(30,099 posts)We as Dems know how corrupt they are, its a given, yet what I find
frightening about the establishment is they know they're going down
and still will not make enough concessions to their corporate interest
holders to throw out a meaningful bone to the Trump supporters.
That's how corrupt they are, and Trump knows it. When Trump talks
about who they're beholding to, they essentially say nothing, b/c
they can't.
BainsBane
(53,093 posts)The GOP has created a monster. They deliberately played wedged issues for decades in order to expand support beyond the country clubs. The part of the party you think they should appeal to is fucking certifiable. They don't believe in science, they call the President a Muslim and education and evidence irrelevant to them. Not wanting to succumb completely to the hatred they have sowed is not the result of the influence of capital but simple sanity and self-preservation. They know they can't hold national office based on those candidates. Neither Trump or Cruz is electable, and the GOP establishment knows it. They have screwed themselves royally.
The core ideology of the Republican party has to do smaller government and specifically less regulation of business. Corporations haven't corrupted that. They directly benefit from it.
Bernie's mantra about corporations is incredibly simplistic and he's wrong on some key points, climate change for example. A number of major corporations for years, over a decade now, have been asking for national regulation about carbon emissions so they can plan their businesses accordingly. The GOP hasn't responded because they have an anti-science, anti-evidence base that at times works against the economic interests of big business.
Now so-called "progressives" want to emulate the Republican base and create government whose primary function is to validate their anger. They would do to the Democratic Party exactly what the Tea Party has done to the GOP. They have developed the same contempt for evidence-based, policy analysis.
We have created a culture where people believe what they want, disregard evidence that doesn't affirm their preexisting views and privileges emotion, and anger in particular, over reason. That, more than anything, is what will bring about our decline.
There is a connection with corporations in terms of the atrocity that passes for broadcast news in this country. The cable news effect on American society has been incredibly corrosive, and its influence reverberates across the political spectrum. Americans feel empowered to pick the "facts" that suit them, and often can't distinguish fact from belief or emotion. The result is a public that revels in misinformation.
Jefferson23
(30,099 posts)to end their party..that is the reality. They have kept them happy or tried to for decades by
appealing to their racist based fundie beliefs..and there is the tried and true
faux news to keep them dumb.
The GOP establishment should move to the center and leave the rest for Trump, that
is what I said earlier. They should disavow Trump now, they're going to lose the
WH either way. Let Trump form a Third party, he won't win anything as long
as the establishment begins to appeal to the center. I have no idea who you
think I was referring to..we have a two party system and for the last seven years
it is almost ungovernable due to their beholding to special interests and fomenting
divide based on social issues..that is who kept them in power. You do realize the
base of the GOP when polled feel they have been betrayed..60% of them.
Progressives have been reading the writing on the wall for a long time, best
for non progressive Dems to realize that reality. That is why there is
a split within our party..not anything as unreasonable nor threatening
as the GOP but it does exist.
Jefferson23
(30,099 posts)in a significant manner..how we stay in power and how we advance the number
of Dems. To disconnect our losses, low voter turn out and cross overs with
her performance would be mistake.
Tierra_y_Libertad
(50,414 posts)Bad Thoughts
(2,536 posts)People just don't feel the party is offering sufficient choices.
Punkingal
(9,522 posts)BainsBane
(53,093 posts)They have since dropped out. There remain two.
If people are attracted to Trump, they belong in the GOP. I do not want a Democratic Party that appeals to the basest level of the American electorate.
november3rd
(1,113 posts)I don't think it's worth it, though, for us to lose the election to Trump just so she can realize the error of her ways.
Dem2
(8,168 posts)I feel like you are blaming somebody who isn't responsible for exciting the voters, it's the candidates that do that, no? I mean granted nobody likes DWS, but really she can't be responsible for those who cross over to see the house burning down.
grasswire
(50,130 posts)Disinformation from Brock.
Their polling shows Hillary down, so they explain it by saying their voters are crossing over to vote against Trump.
Yurovsky
(2,064 posts)first it was the Clinton-haters, then it was the Clintons.
I wonder what he'll do for money if Hillary goes down in flames?
saidsimplesimon
(7,888 posts)gives him any notice. imo
Oilwellian
(12,647 posts)The DNC has always done it in the past. I wonder why she didn't even do that?
Zorra
(27,670 posts)it is true that DWS and Third Way establishment leadership has led the Democratic to the brink of extinction.
Nothing but a Bernie presidency can save the Democratic party now.
SoapBox
(18,791 posts)Support Tim Canova...donate what you can...time and/or money!
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sharp_stick
(14,400 posts)she's horrible.
Punkingal
(9,522 posts)ellennelle
(614 posts)but never forget; hillary and her husband were charter members of the DLC, which is the real 3rd way culprit.
Hortensis
(58,785 posts)In this case, reportedly Trump is drawing most of the nation's conservative Democrats; however, in Ohio could they be going for Kasich? Inquiring minds want to know.
(The DNC has virtually nothing to say about what's going on in Ohio -- it's a big, powerful state and its own party apparatus wouldn't appreciate interference from afar.)
Jefferson23
(30,099 posts)Is that not perfectly fucked up awesomeness or what?
She makes clear where her political allies are, does she not?