2016 Postmortem
Related: About this forumBy now I am truly disgusted with the HRC supporters.
Intimidation, indirect voter "suppression" seem to take
hold today by many of her supporters.
27 states have not voted yet, and there are quite a
number of big ones. That is more than half of the states.
It is either:"Trump is coming" fear mongering or
"It is all over,so unite behind the Inevitable" discouragement.
This "Fall in line now!" reminds me of repug tactics, and should
be totally abhorrent to the dems.
Don't forget that HRC will need all the help she can get from
the Bernie supporters, but this attitude drives them exactly
in the opposite direction.
Bernie said he would be in this competition until the
convention, and he will do so. Deal with that without
screaming out "Get out already!"
Your effort to influence lurkers or some undecideds,
will only bring you a large loss of votes for HRC.
![](du4img/smicon-reply-new.gif)
Xipe Totec
(43,967 posts)senz
(11,945 posts)Betty Karlson
(7,231 posts)Still In Wisconsin
(4,450 posts)Whether it will help in the GE is another question. I think a lot of what we're seeing and will continue to see is a desire in the Clinton camp to excise the left wing of the Democratic party. Regardless, there are still downballot progressives to support.
sadoldgirl
(3,431 posts)Don't forget the West coast, including CA.
But your state has not voted yet either, so
why give up so quickly?
floriduck
(2,262 posts)Will likely vote Republican in the GE anyway.
JustABozoOnThisBus
(23,593 posts)At this time, she's counting delegates. Period.
Oh, and maybe hustling for more money.
kath
(10,565 posts)And the Confederacy is all done voting.
for Some perspective, see the chart in this OP: http://www.democraticunderground.com/1280149097
jfern
(5,204 posts)tokenlib
(4,186 posts)it is arrogance pure and simple.
eggman67
(837 posts)Bulworth: "What are ya gonna do, vote Republican?"
vintx
(1,748 posts)Glad to know they've got this all locked up. I can just put my feet up and watch this time around.
fun n serious
(4,451 posts)We won't. If you think we have been nasty to you, you're wrong. I have screen shots of all kinds of things including the brick issue
Dragonfli
(10,622 posts)![](https://pbs.twimg.com/media/CdtZaAXUsAIJZc7.jpg)
NuclearDem
(16,184 posts)Dragonfli
(10,622 posts)There are more delegates left up for grabs than both have obtained combined thus far. Not to mention there are a great many Sanders favorable states coming up Since less than half the delegates have thus far been allocated, whose to say that the second half doesn't catch him up? I actually think it's likely, especially in states where cheating will be more difficult.
stevenleser
(32,886 posts)Number23
(24,544 posts)If they think that a 314 delegate difference is nothing, then the extra 440 from the supers must surely be too much to comprehend.
Hillary may not need the supers but she's got them nonetheless. And that's an extra 440 delegates who are committed to making sure that she wins.
stevenleser
(32,886 posts)And I like that a process exists that attempts to prevent the catastrophe that could very well hit the Republicans this year. The next brokered convention, if either party has a next one, will be such a cluster-f**k that even more draconian measures will be put into place afterwards to make sure they never happen again.
Consider that 1968 was such a complete disaster without Social media and the internet. Imagine if the entire world had been kept abreast minute by minute what was happening at that convention. That is what threatens to face the GOP this year.
I think the Republicans' solution to prevent a brokered convention is worse and doesnt seem like it is going to work. Their large winner take all states seem much less fair to someone trying to catch up.
giftedgirl77
(4,713 posts)![](/emoticons/rofl.gif)
TM99
(8,352 posts)So thanks we are going to do the same.
stevenleser
(32,886 posts)TM99
(8,352 posts)We know, we know.
The primary voting starting in January. I think going a few more months is not going to hurt the party.
stevenleser
(32,886 posts)Grace when facing a loss is not easy. And you guys aren't even the candidate and don't have as much invested.
TM99
(8,352 posts)less than half of the delegates have been awarded after only two months of voting?
DemocraticWing
(1,290 posts)Bernie needs to win roughly 57% of what's left to tie. This isn't impossible, but is increasingly unlikely. Let's see how Arizona, Idaho, and Utah vote and then reassess.
bobbobbins01
(1,681 posts)The campaign has been saying since the very beginning that the 15th would be the last stand for Clinton. That is why they're making such a fuss right now, because things are expected to shift dramatically going forward.
DemocraticWing
(1,290 posts)If we don't get killed there, however, we have a nice run through the next few states up until New York. NY is followed by a bunch of other east coast primaries the next week...those two weeks are probably the last stand. Either we win big or it's just a formality at that point.
yardwork
(62,578 posts)Odin2005
(53,521 posts)Caring about income inequality for everyone is now considered racist, apparently.
liberal_at_heart
(12,081 posts)Live and Learn
(12,769 posts)Mnpaul
(3,655 posts)to drive the rest of us away. They chased away a good chunk away in the 90's with their free trade deals and are now attempting to finish the job. It's a stupid move but they have fondness for stupid moves(as proven in recent elections).
rhett o rick
(55,981 posts)because we won't acquiesce to the Ruling Class. We will not ignore those suffering among us. They want us to take the ACA and be happy with it and consider the 50 million living in poverty just collateral damage of the Ruling Classes looting the lower classes.
MadBadger
(24,089 posts)You probably could use a good history lesson.
jillan
(39,451 posts)jeff47
(26,549 posts)MadBadger
(24,089 posts)jeff47
(26,549 posts)tokenlib
(4,186 posts)You said "history." We have almost thirty years of arrogant New Dems playing these games to get us to vote for the lesser of evils. It's old...and predictable...
MadBadger
(24,089 posts)NuclearDem
(16,184 posts)stevenleser
(32,886 posts)or about them, inflating it to insane proportions and then are completely nasty with Hillary and her supporters and can't seem to remember they did any of that 30 seconds after doing it.
jeff47
(26,549 posts)and are whiny brats to boot.
You wanna pretend that is not an insult?
NuclearDem
(16,184 posts)with voter intimidation and suppression, it's kind of hard to disagree with that.
Sorry, but frank discussion about Sanders' chances is not intimidation or suppression.
jeff47
(26,549 posts)Instead, it's hurling insults.
NuclearDem
(16,184 posts)At some point, people who have made a habit of making absolutely absurd, borderline insulting claims of victimhood lose any right to be taken seriously.
Calling a spade a spade is not suppression.
Kalidurga
(14,177 posts)I agree he hasn't been intimidated.
NuclearDem
(16,184 posts)But you're right, he hasn't been intimidated from voting, and neither have Sanders supporters.
sadoldgirl
(3,431 posts)And they know clearly that he won't do it, but keep
telling his supporters that the fight is over and we better
line up behind HRH.
If you think that Bernie supporters will be enticed by
this to vote for her, you must be living on a different
planet than I do.
MadBadger
(24,089 posts)Gotta have that to actually be intimidation, and more so than just Trump will be President.
liberal_at_heart
(12,081 posts)Jenny_92808
(1,342 posts)Same here - full ignore.
Maedhros
(10,007 posts)jillan
(39,451 posts)hold up very well to scrutiny.
Whatever you say.
MohRokTah
(15,429 posts)As of the pledged delegate count right now, Sanders needs more than 58% of all remaining pledged delegates to take a simple majority of pledged delegates (2026). To achieve that, Sanders needs better than Minnesota margins in ALL of the remaining 24 states, 3 territories and the District of Columbia.
oasis
(50,650 posts)He was already picking and choosing which states to campaign in before the SWEEP ever happened.
tokenlib
(4,186 posts)...This is all Third Way/ New Dem/Clintonite boilerplate language and tactics. It gets old after almost THIRTY YEARS....
asuhornets
(2,410 posts)where have I heard this before, oh yea, right here at DU, so so many times
William769
(55,758 posts)have you all looked in a mirror?
NuclearDem
(16,184 posts)![](http://www.mugsysrapsheet.com/4blog/voter_suppression_billboard.jpg)
![](http://www.aljazeera.com/mritems/Images/2011/9/18/20119181015929734_20.jpg)
![](http://syndicjournal.us/wp-content/uploads/Rev.-WEB-VOL-1-029.jpg)
Not pictured: People having an open, peaceful discussion about the chances of your candidate in contests down the road.
If you're not comfortable dealing with the reality that Sanders' path forward is looking more and more grim just due to the sheer numbers, then fine, such is your right to feel that way. If you're not happy that people are discussing this, then tough, democratic and open discussion will sometimes expose you to viewpoints and ideas that you don't find comforting.
If you're so horribly terrified and depressed by these sorts of discussions going on that it somehow makes you not want to vote, then that's not our problem--that's yours. I've voted in every single federal election I've been eligible to participate in--voting Democrat in a deep red Indiana county. Toughen up. Having your feelings hurt isn't voter suppression. Being falsely terrified of being subject to criminal penalties is suppression. Armed thugs standing outside polling places is suppression. Disenfranchising the poor through ID laws is suppression.
Enough with the damn hyperbole.
MadBadger
(24,089 posts)JoePhilly
(27,787 posts)KingFlorez
(12,689 posts)Last time I checked those races were not canceled. Talking about the math is not voter suppression. What is more disgusting is this plan to try and get pledged delegates to vote for a candidate that they were not pledged to.
Response to sadoldgirl (Original post)
Post removed
MadBadger
(24,089 posts)djean111
(14,255 posts)stevenleser
(32,886 posts)We've also decided to try removing the current "five hides and you're out" restriction, mainly because we suspect that members would be more likely to vote to hide bad behavior if they didn't feel like one of their friends might get canned over it. So while members can still be flagged for review for getting posts hidden too quickly, there's no more five-hide suspension. And anyone who is currently suspended for getting five hides is able to post again as of now. We reserve the right to change this decision if it seems like it's having the opposite effect to what was intended.
sadoldgirl
(3,431 posts)Hekate
(92,605 posts)The site-owner being Skinner, of course.
stevenleser
(32,886 posts)Cue the evil laugh: Bwahahahahahahahaha... cough cough...
NanceGreggs
(27,835 posts)Why didn't you tell me that this is now LeserUnderground?
I would have spent a lot more time here if I'd known.
Thanks for nuthin', Steven.
stevenleser
(32,886 posts)![](/emoticons/laughing.gif)
stevenleser
(32,886 posts)of Sanders supporters that has now been taken away.
That's the only answer that makes sense given her response and attitude. She's mad that all those Hillary supporters can post again.
that the worst, most abusive posters have been given a license to troll with impunity.
stevenleser
(32,886 posts)My guess is that Skinner and EarlG are keeping a pretty close eye on the place after lifting the five hide rule to see if that exact thing is about to happen. I think if anyone in fact does try to take advantage of it, they will find themselves out on their backsides pretty quickly.
stevenleser
(32,886 posts)you are accusing me of somehow being a part of DU's decision-making to alter its rules.
As if I have that much pull with Skinner and EarlG. Believe me, I don't. If I had my way, GD-P would no longer exist and the presumptive nominee rules would be in effect.
Hekate
(92,605 posts)JURY: Poster advises that the way to "manage HRC supporters on DU" is to "Build up hides on them so that they get time outs on DU." It is this plan I am characterizing as disgusting.
nc4bo
(17,651 posts)On Thu Mar 17, 2016, 12:08 AM an alert was sent on the following post:
Here's what you do to manage the HRC supporters on DU
http://www.democraticunderground.com/?com=view_post&forum=1251&pid=1511414
REASON FOR ALERT
This post is disruptive, hurtful, rude, insensitive, over-the-top, or otherwise inappropriate.
ALERTER'S COMMENTS
Poster says the way "to manage HRC supporters on DU" is to "build up hides on them so that they get time outs on DU."
JURY RESULTS
You served on a randomly-selected Jury of DU members which reviewed this post. The review was completed at Thu Mar 17, 2016, 12:13 AM, and the Jury voted 5-2 to HIDE IT.
Juror #1 voted to HIDE IT
Explanation: No explanation given
Juror #2 voted to LEAVE IT ALONE
Explanation: It's a dick move, but I do not see how this message is a DU TOS violation
Juror #3 voted to HIDE IT
Explanation: No explanation given
Juror #4 voted to HIDE IT
Explanation: Well it's a strategy that certainly has been employed on Sanders supporters as well. Real stinko stuff either way. Vote to hide.
Juror #5 voted to HIDE IT
Explanation: That certainly puts the problem right out front doesn't it ?
Juror #6 voted to HIDE IT
Explanation: This is so wrong to do and the poster must not have read Skinner's post yet. I just finished it. If you cannot argue why your candidate is better you are better off being quiet. You make your candidate look less desirable when you stoop to low blows.
Juror #7 voted to LEAVE IT ALONE
Explanation: This is a hard one. The advice violates the spirit of DU, and the post is manipulative AND divisive, but I think this is something that can be addressed with a rebuke rather than a deletion.
In addition, as the alerter says, the five-hide rule has been suspended, so the poster's impotent.
Thank you very much for participating in our Jury system, and we hope you will be able to participate again in the future.
stevenleser
(32,886 posts)that he should have used the :sarc: tag.
Hekate
(92,605 posts)...will pull together when the time comes. If that means "falling in line" to you, so be it. May I remind you that you don't have to if you don't want to.
But on this discussion board, as opposed to real life, I don't expect any help AT ALL from most of the Bernie supporters who post here. They have made it plain that they think HRC is a criminal, felon, murderer, thief, and all the other RW-sourced stuff from the past 30 years, so I mostly just leave them alone and don't bother.
I'm not going to try to convert anyone here, any more than I try to convert my next door neighbor who is an Evangelical Christian Republican. He's actually a great neighbor -- I just resolutely refuse to discuss religion, politics, or social policy with him.
I believe in civility. I wish we had some more of it here. Spread the word.
AgadorSparticus
(7,963 posts)John Poet
(2,510 posts)For the reasons you stated.
Chichiri
(4,667 posts)Either the Supreme Court will matter to them, or it won't. That's the size of it. Meanwhile, every dollar being spent for Bernie is a dollar not spent against Trump.
NuclearDem
(16,184 posts)is a dollar not being spent campaigning against Trump.
Chichiri
(4,667 posts)Tarc
(10,495 posts)If Sanders runs every single state left on the calendar at 60%-40%, he only winds up with a net +90 over Clinton; that is how deep of a math hole he's in today.
We know that's not going to happen, and if we dose those numbers with some cold realism...KY, Wash DC, 70% for Hillary, split NY and NJ, she's back on top.
Math. Sorry, but it is what it is.
HassleCat
(6,409 posts)None of this was supposed to happen. Sanders was supposed to be nothing more then the flavor of the week, a flavor that nobody would remember by now. "Was it vanilla? Lemon, perhaps? Ah, who cares!" This is tough on them because it undermines the notion that Clinton is a steamroller, a force of nature, and so on. She is vulnerable, and can be effectively opposed by such an unlikely candidate as Bernie Sanders, and old guy from a small state who enjoys faint support from within the party. If he can give her a run for her money, imagine what a time she would have battling Donald Trump.
sadoldgirl
(3,431 posts)shut down the primaries, as well as telling everyone
that it is over.....
Well, I think that the West coast people will be only
too happy to be told that their voices or votes are
totally useless.
liberal_at_heart
(12,081 posts)jfern
(5,204 posts)was a sexist and racist white male, they are trying to plead for unity before the primary is over? Fuck them.
gcomeau
(5,764 posts)If the Greens can break 5% support nationally and secure equal ballot access and public funding that will game change the next election. The party will have no choice but to turn left to secure its base instead of fucking them over then daring them not to support them by using the GOP as a threat.
jfern
(5,204 posts)some basic respect.
Mnpaul
(3,655 posts)he lacks the vindictive mean streak so common in DC. It is not about him, it's about the voters.
alcibiades_mystery
(36,437 posts)![](/emoticons/hi.gif)
sadoldgirl
(3,431 posts)for that, I understand that quite well.
However, my point was somewhat different.
Should HRC win the nomination, I don't think that
the efforts on just this board, but overall, to try to
tell people that their efforts to keep Bernie going,
is not only futile but hurts their candidate is a great
way to backfire for the GE.
The ball for this is in the court of the HRC campaign,
and "they have nowhere else to go" may just give a
tremendous boost to J. Stein.
Waiting For Everyman
(9,385 posts)they wouldn't be trying to get rid of him and depress his voters to lower the results.
If they really thought it was all over they'd want Bernie to stay in, to increase her media coverage. Once there's no race, there's nothing to cover. The convention won't be until months from now.
Tune them out, and work and vote and donate as if every vote were the tie breaker. It might be that close. But don't quit till the end.
hrmjustin
(71,265 posts)WillyT
(72,631 posts)![](/emoticons/fistbump.gif)
workinclasszero
(28,270 posts)Well that's gonna win many voters to your side no doubt
Good and clear sign of a failed candidacy though. Congrats OP.
UglyGreed
(7,661 posts)Who around here plays Bill the Butcher's role????
NowSam
(1,252 posts)knowing they are backing Hillary Clinton?
Maedhros
(10,007 posts)George Orwell created the word doublethink in his dystopian novel Nineteen Eighty-Four (1984); doublethink is part of newspeak. In the novel, its origin within the typical citizen is unclear; while it could be partly a product of Big Brother's formal brainwashing programmes,[2] the novel explicitly shows people learning Doublethink and newspeak due to peer pressure and a desire to "fit in", or gain status within the Party to be seen as a loyal Party Member. In the novel, for someone to even recognize let alone mention any contradiction within the context of the Party line was akin to blasphemy, and could subject that someone to possible disciplinary action and to the instant social disapproval of fellow Party Members.
For example, Hillary's campaign has claimed two contradictory beliefs as correct:
Funding campaigns with corporate money is great!
and
Hillary is a proud progressive!
Note that a key component of doublethink is that it is "notable due to a lack of cognitive dissonance thus the person is completely unaware of any conflict or contradiction." Thus, the ability to sleep at night knowing that they support the campaign of a politician who stands diametrically opposed to many of the core beliefs they claim to have.
merrily
(45,251 posts)Or the detractors of any candidate.
Base your vote on the candidate, period.
synergie
(1,901 posts)vile posts and the misogyny that's been allowed to fester here, the bullying, the stalking, the dishonesty. Don't forget that in the GE, the few BS supporters who are threatening to take their ball and go home were never going to vote Dem anyway, which leave the rest of the Bernie supporters, and BERNIE HIMSELF, along with quite a lot of anti-Trump votes from all sides of the aisle will also be in play.
We have no need to intimidate or bully anyone, no threats, and if anyone wishes to pout and punish us all by voting Trump or not voting or writing in or whatever, you're perfectly welcome to, real Dems, real progressives, real liberals are not subscribing to this nonsense and they like us, are voting blue in the GE, and were always going to. In fact those of us who voted for her in the primaries when were planning to sit out, did so due to the abuse, the hate and the bullying tactics of the more, shall we say "passionate" of the Bernie supporters, the ones the media has been describing as the bros who swarm in groups.
That shout of "get out alreaedy" is one that has been often shouted by the BS supporters demanding that HRC drop out so that Bernie need not be bothered with earning votes and delegates, and it started early.
Your attempts to threaten us, intimidate us, and beat us into submission is kind of pointless, and if you take your ball and go home, do so, just stop haranguing us about it and breathlessly pasting whatever the Daily Caller and Rove has fed you about how there is an indictment coming and how harassing pledged delegates and superdelegates is totally not a violation of the will of the voters, who are overwhelmingly voting for her, and who will be perfectly happy to vote for her, and even those who will vote against Trump.
Your ball is not necessary and we have no interest in pleading with you, or even asking you to vote rationally in the GE.
fun n serious
(4,451 posts)I figured out a LONG time ago DU Berners would not vote for Hillary and Never wasted my time to convince them. I moved on to fire up our own base. I've heard Bernie can win a General not Hillary etc etc.. If true he would have Hillary voters on his side. He doesn't. VOTE who you want to. END of discussion
IdaBriggs
(10,559 posts)It makes DU a better experience.
Starry Messenger
(32,364 posts)Doing back of the napkin math isn't. Hey, I don't get to vote until June, and it will be all over but the shouting. I will still vote though. Isn't that amazing?
obamanut2012
(26,749 posts)warrprayer
(4,734 posts)For reality
LuvLoogie
(7,249 posts)Thanks Skinner!
JoePhilly
(27,787 posts)improvingthecountry
(9 posts)I couldn't possibly agree more. By the way, I'm a refugee from dailykos. They're erasing all anti-Hillary messages there! Disgusting.
book_worm
(15,951 posts)Rockyj
(538 posts)The Democrat Party is Republican, many sol their souls.
I will not VOTE for her because she does not represent the Democrat Party.
PeaceNikki
(27,985 posts)kgnu_fan
(3,021 posts)Vote2016
(1,198 posts)is not the nominee. I'm not a Bernie-or-buster, but I don't have trust or ideological sympathy for Hillary. I hope Sanders pulls it off. I'll vote Democratic down ballot either way (of course) and I haven't made up my mind but I'm leaning toward Jill Stein if Hillary is nominated.
smiley
(1,432 posts)because she's not going to win the nomination.
Time to donate to Bernie again!
jwirr
(39,215 posts)power as we can.
Renew Deal
(82,436 posts)Bread and Circus
(9,454 posts)Back in the day we fought for Obama...now we are fighting for Sanders. They tried the same "she has already won" stuff before the first vote was cast in 2008.