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(3,160 posts)
Wed Mar 23, 2016, 06:41 AM Mar 2016

Do you remember how many of us knew Bush stole the election from Gore?

We were convinced that it was stolen because every place in the country where the voting was a mess, where there was mistakes, where exit polls did not match the vote tallies...all the places where there mass confusion was created, BUSH WON ALL THOSE PLACES. It was obviously most evident in Florida as we all know (and the same in Ohio 4 years later). So it is safe to assume that setting up problems to occur before the voting and then stealing elections during the confusion is the formula.

Fast forward to today.

There have been 4 states in the Democratic primary that have had serious problems: IOWA, NEVADA, MASS, ARIZONA.

All four went to ONE candidate.

Do the fucking math.

The reason why Bernie and his campaign do not make an issue for long in each state is because of the next states are coming up and it would be foolish to fight the prior state and lose focus on what's coming up.

92 replies = new reply since forum marked as read
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Do you remember how many of us knew Bush stole the election from Gore? (Original Post) FlatBaroque Mar 2016 OP
Mass did not have serious problems. Agschmid Mar 2016 #1
So, there were problems in MA, just not "serious" ones? Who decides that? RiverLover Mar 2016 #9
The candidates... Agschmid Mar 2016 #12
Kerry didn't have a problem in 2004, even in Ohio. IdaBriggs Mar 2016 #30
Have been concerned about this since the 2000 election. EndElectoral Mar 2016 #62
Welcome To 2016 SoCalMusicLover Mar 2016 #85
Really? I never got that message... snowy owl Mar 2016 #74
Did you see the sarcasm tag? IdaBriggs Mar 2016 #81
Yeah, he rolled over and played dead immediately lagomorph777 Mar 2016 #79
A very odd pattern in the Massachusetts returns : In the first 200,000 returns Hillary leaped ahead GoneFishin Mar 2016 #36
LOL. DanTex Mar 2016 #2
And some of these so called 'problems' were blatantly captured on video.... Segami Mar 2016 #3
Good grief. Firebrand Gary Mar 2016 #4
So funny rjsquirrel Mar 2016 #5
Tell me about it, big guy. Octafish Mar 2016 #10
What's your point? rjsquirrel Mar 2016 #14
Conspiracies happen. Octafish Mar 2016 #20
Actually, that picture is evidence against widespread conspiracies 72DejaVu Mar 2016 #29
So if it's exposed it's no longer a conspiracy? That's some logic fail. Scuba Mar 2016 #40
no, it's just not a successfully hidden conspiracy 72DejaVu Mar 2016 #58
Lol rjsquirrel Mar 2016 #51
Like I want to impress a guy who sides with Karl Rove over Don Siegelman? Octafish Mar 2016 #67
Allison Tant think Mar 2016 #47
After this, therefor because of this. LanternWaste Mar 2016 #24
Most Logical. Octafish Mar 2016 #33
5 Replies , 0 visible replies. FlatBaroque Mar 2016 #6
Some us live outside echo chambers. Agschmid Mar 2016 #13
Yeah rjsquirrel Mar 2016 #16
Heh. Yeah, the post count never matches the visible posts for me these days, either. Lizzie Poppet Mar 2016 #70
The reason the Sanders campaign doesn't call the sufrommich Mar 2016 #7
Yup. Agschmid Mar 2016 #15
+ 1 JoePhilly Mar 2016 #49
If Hillary wins the primaries in a 5-4 SC decision with a vote along BreakfastClub Mar 2016 #8
When it happens in the fall, Yuugal Mar 2016 #45
I will. frylock Mar 2016 #82
Not among independents, who are now 40% of the electorate n/t eridani Mar 2016 #91
Sore Loser whining. Arizona elections are run by Republicans geek tragedy Mar 2016 #11
Except a lot of Hillary supporters voted early. Agschmid Mar 2016 #18
Voting is the new cheating. nt geek tragedy Mar 2016 #27
Apparently. Agschmid Mar 2016 #31
Since when does "run by Republicans" mean "it must be fair"? surrealAmerican Mar 2016 #37
....and the republicans are salivating to run against Hillary rather than Bernie bbgrunt Mar 2016 #60
Is Raul Grijalva in on the deal, too? BeyondGeography Mar 2016 #17
I don't know, but what do you suppose would FlatBaroque Mar 2016 #57
So Grijalva just might be a stooge? BeyondGeography Mar 2016 #61
off to the shit pile FlatBaroque Mar 2016 #63
A fitting destination for your efforts here BeyondGeography Mar 2016 #66
Smells like coup spirit Octafish Mar 2016 #19
Thanks. GoneFishin Mar 2016 #22
That ran on DU1... Octafish Mar 2016 #35
Thanks, Ocatfish. Always an education. FlatBaroque Mar 2016 #23
CIA was mucking in Florida... Octafish Mar 2016 #39
Interesting read. Thanks. AtomicKitten Mar 2016 #34
CIA moonlights in corporate world Octafish Mar 2016 #64
Thank you.... haikugal Mar 2016 #56
The newer crowd acts like they have yet to learn how DU came to be. Octafish Mar 2016 #65
+1,000,000,000. Abso-fucking-lutely. It's crystal clear for anyone who isn't in denial. GoneFishin Mar 2016 #21
still in the denial stage of grieving nt geek tragedy Mar 2016 #28
Yes, it must be disappointing to learn that you have been worshipping a cheater who can't win GoneFishin Mar 2016 #38
And she's a known liar. A really bad liar who can't seem to stop lying vintx Mar 2016 #41
Only liars are those accusing her of stealing the win in AZ geek tragedy Mar 2016 #46
No, she lied about supporting NAFTA, about 'sniper fire'_ vintx Mar 2016 #50
You have no evidence that Clinton benefited from geek tragedy Mar 2016 #53
That is true. But she is nonetheless a cheater. vintx Mar 2016 #59
+ 1 JoePhilly Mar 2016 #52
There is no evidence whatsoever of Clinton cheating. geek tragedy Mar 2016 #44
bernie taught his supporters well wilt the stilt Mar 2016 #25
Dang! How did you sneak through? FlatBaroque Mar 2016 #32
244 posts and 5 hidden by jury EmperorHasNoClothes Mar 2016 #76
Exactly right. At the very least, no one should be dismissing these problems lightly. reformist2 Mar 2016 #26
Local Arizona link with lots of first hand information FlatBaroque Mar 2016 #42
post that as a new thread please pinebox Mar 2016 #43
Right. Clinton folks are stealing ballot boxes in AZ, and changing the rules during the vote counts. baldguy Mar 2016 #48
Bernie Sanders has not filed a formal complaint against workinclasszero Mar 2016 #54
Yes. I see a definite correlation. Zorra Mar 2016 #55
Nader Denialism Lives!! Thank the FL protest voters for helping redstateblues Mar 2016 #68
Nader was not a factor. It was a coordinated theft by the GOP with the help of State police Lorien Mar 2016 #72
Thank you ! marions ghost Mar 2016 #75
Okay kids: Snap Quiz!!! brooklynite Mar 2016 #69
Knew? I watched it firsthand! Lorien Mar 2016 #71
No one would expect the media to report on its own complicity in the debacle FlatBaroque Mar 2016 #80
Not only foolish to fight but futile. It never gets fixed. There are no consequences. snowy owl Mar 2016 #73
What is amazing is that even with the debacles of 2000 and 2004, Maedhros Mar 2016 #77
It is amazing Hydra Mar 2016 #89
There is no other reason to ignore such a problem, other than the intention of using it themselves. Maedhros Mar 2016 #90
Yeesh alcibiades_mystery Mar 2016 #78
Glad you're in the inner circle of WhiteTara Mar 2016 #83
Goodbye FlatBaroque Mar 2016 #84
and we all know this one is riggen too Ferd Berfel Mar 2016 #86
Anything Republicans do, Hillary can do better (or worse). nt JEB Mar 2016 #87
K & R AzDar Mar 2016 #88
Another fun fact: Al Gore was boring and inspired not a soul that didn't already like him Sky Masterson Mar 2016 #92


(10,559 posts)
30. Kerry didn't have a problem in 2004, even in Ohio.
Wed Mar 23, 2016, 07:16 AM
Mar 2016

Of course, the voting issues there were proven to be a figment of imagination.


(4,213 posts)
62. Have been concerned about this since the 2000 election.
Wed Mar 23, 2016, 08:34 AM
Mar 2016

Previously exit polling had been very reliable, now it's not.

The long lines in Arizona indicate something was amiss.

No paper trails anymore for the machines, no real auditing. Elections are ripe for manipulation. Call it a conspiracy theory if you want, but most here were not saying that in 2000, nor 2004 in Ohio. Why is it any different now? People are vested in getting a certain candidate to win. The system is ripe for malfeasance without independent oversight.



(3,194 posts)
85. Welcome To 2016
Wed Mar 23, 2016, 04:16 PM
Mar 2016

Elections are just the government's way of making us feel invested, like we actually have a say in who is President.

Truth is, that's not really the case. Each of our votes is pretty insignificant to begin with, and since those in power have the ability to manipulate the results if they're close, we really don't have much say at all.

That doesn't even go into the Superdelegates issue, where supposedly Clinton has enough GUARANTEED to her, that if Sanders were to actually get more pledged delegates, you know...the votes of the people....that result can be changed easily enough.

Just ask Donald. The repubs plan to throw him overboard even if he's hundreds of delegates ahead come convention time.



(10,559 posts)
81. Did you see the sarcasm tag?
Wed Mar 23, 2016, 03:53 PM
Mar 2016

Because my comment was supposed to be obviously sarcastic.

Infuriating, isn't it?


(5,217 posts)
36. A very odd pattern in the Massachusetts returns : In the first 200,000 returns Hillary leaped ahead
Wed Mar 23, 2016, 07:21 AM
Mar 2016

by about 10% or about 20,000 votes. But for the final 1 million votes she had no net gains. In the end she still was only ahead by about 20,000 votes (the ones she gained at the beginning). Shit doesn't happen that way on it's own.



(4,762 posts)
5. So funny
Wed Mar 23, 2016, 06:46 AM
Mar 2016

Mass delusion sets in.

Clinton's raw vote tallies are far beyond the margin of any possible decisive role for fraud. This ain't Palm Beach in 2000. This is multiple states, open and closed primaries and caucuses.

Conspiracy theory is the last refuge of a losing campaign.



(4,762 posts)
14. What's your point?
Wed Mar 23, 2016, 07:00 AM
Mar 2016

Conspiracy theory, long your particular specialty.

You see monsters behind every door.

That image has nothing to do with how Clinton is decisively winning in absolute vote totals over Sanders. Insinuation is not proof. If you've got proof of fraud in any dem primary or caucus this year I suggest you provide it. And I don't mean Octafish proof (this Thing happened, and this other Thing, so it must be the Bush crime family conspiracy mafia behind it). If Bernie had such proof he'd be suing Clinton.

By the bye, how does Octafish explain Jeb Bush losing to Trump? I thought Bushes controlled the entire world with their secret cabal?

Laughable. CT thinking can be a sign of a serious problem.


(55,745 posts)
20. Conspiracies happen.
Wed Mar 23, 2016, 07:05 AM
Mar 2016

Like the photo seems to show angry Florida voters.

They're really all GOP staffers flown in for the show.

Don't get mad. It shows your bad side.


(1,545 posts)
29. Actually, that picture is evidence against widespread conspiracies
Wed Mar 23, 2016, 07:15 AM
Mar 2016

The fact that we all know they did that in 2000 indicates the incredible difficulty of keeping such plots secret.



(4,762 posts)
51. Lol
Wed Mar 23, 2016, 08:24 AM
Mar 2016

All you have is mad.

That picture has nothing to do with this election.

And yo why did Bush get knocked out of the race? Some crime family.

I'm laughing at you, not mad.



(37,748 posts)
24. After this, therefor because of this.
Wed Mar 23, 2016, 07:11 AM
Mar 2016

After this, therefor because of this. One of the most popular fallacies in existence.


(55,745 posts)
33. Most Logical.
Wed Mar 23, 2016, 07:18 AM
Mar 2016

Like the time Bush and Cheney said Iraq was behind 9-11 and got Sen. Clinton and Congress to authorize their illegal, immoral and unnecessary war.

NOW we can look back and see it also was disastrous.


Lizzie Poppet

(10,164 posts)
70. Heh. Yeah, the post count never matches the visible posts for me these days, either.
Wed Mar 23, 2016, 08:48 AM
Mar 2016

5 people on my Ignore list in as many years prior to un-Trashing GD: P about a month and a half ago. Over 40 now...and I've deliberately left some of the worst offenders off the list. So I can fuck with them


(22,871 posts)
7. The reason the Sanders campaign doesn't call the
Wed Mar 23, 2016, 06:48 AM
Mar 2016

elections they lose "fraudulent" is because they know it's bunk propelled by their sour grapes brigade.


(765 posts)
8. If Hillary wins the primaries in a 5-4 SC decision with a vote along
Wed Mar 23, 2016, 06:48 AM
Mar 2016

partisan lines, and wins a crucial state by having a member of her family stop the counting of the votes, then you could argue that it's the same. Until then, no. Not the same. No candidate would have the means to steal state after state anyway. It's ridiculous to even consider. Sorry, but she is just crushing your candidate. You need to face facts.


geek tragedy

(68,868 posts)
11. Sore Loser whining. Arizona elections are run by Republicans
Wed Mar 23, 2016, 06:54 AM
Mar 2016

Hillary voters were just as hurt by the vote suppression as Bernie voters.


(11,316 posts)
37. Since when does "run by Republicans" mean "it must be fair"?
Wed Mar 23, 2016, 07:22 AM
Mar 2016

Last edited Wed Mar 23, 2016, 08:53 AM - Edit history (1)

No matter who it is who's disenfranchising voters, it needs to be stopped.


(39,153 posts)
17. Is Raul Grijalva in on the deal, too?
Wed Mar 23, 2016, 07:01 AM
Mar 2016

He was interviewed after AZ was called last night and blamed Sanders' loss on the Clintons being historically strong in his state. Said it was basically the same result as in 2008 when he endorsed Obama.


(3,160 posts)
57. I don't know, but what do you suppose would
Wed Mar 23, 2016, 08:30 AM
Mar 2016

happen to his effectiveness in Congress if he accuses his party of fraud?


(55,745 posts)
19. Smells like coup spirit
Wed Mar 23, 2016, 07:01 AM
Mar 2016

By Dwayne Eutsey

April 27, 2001-Thanks to the investigative reporting of journalists such
as Greg Palast, more evidence of a coordinated effort to disenfranchise
tens of thousands of registered voters (mostly African American) is
surfacing in Florida. When these reports are considered within the context
of police roadblocks, cases of intimidation, and possible large-scale
voter fraud and ballot tampering, fears of an orchestrated dirty election
become more substantiated.

There is another aspect of the 2000 election in Florida that remains
largely untouched, however: the possibility of a domestic covert
intelligence operation designed to make certain that America didn't go
Democratic "due to the irresponsibility of its own people," to paraphrase
Henry Kissinger's remark concerning overthrowing the democratically
elected government in Chile.

Perhaps the possibility of such an operation in the US is too far-fetched
to take seriously, or perhaps there isn't enough evidence to proceed with
documenting such suspicions. Unfortunately, history proves that the
former assumption is naive (Watergate, Iran-Contra, and documented CIA
activities against US citizens come immediately to mind). Regarding
evidence, it's the nature of the covert beast to leave no fingerprints and
smoking guns behind (unless you're setting up a patsy). However, if you
can't find a corpse laying around, the stench in the air can often reveal,
nonetheless, that a murder victim's body is covered up somewhere nearby.

What follows here is not an expose of how a CIA-backed coup in Florida
helped kill the democratic process in November. It is an effort, however,
to draw attention to the disturbing stink surrounding events in the 2000
election that are similar to known CIA actions that thwarted democracy in
other countries, namely Guatemala in the 1950s and Chile in 1973. To
avoid the appearance of "conspiracy theorizing" on my part, I've limited
the information presented here to what can be verified. I have also
limited the focus of this survey to very broad similarities. Many others
connections exist and warrant further investigation (such as claims that
former CIA/FBI agent Charles Kane, who was involved in possible absentee
ballot tampering in Florida, played a role in the Bay of Pigs invasion and
CIA coups and dirty tricks around the world. He allegedly retired in the
mid-'70s and would have been employed during the Agency's heyday of covert

Hopefully, this general overview will help prompt others to conduct a more
thorough look into murky activities that, taken as a whole, suggest the
spirit of CIA-Coups-Past may have paid an unwelcome visit last November to

Historical Background

By placing these facts within the larger historical context of CIA coup
activity, many of the baffling events transpiring in Florida last year
begin to make some sense. The same players (CIA, powerful corporations,
rightwing militarists), the same motives (preserving economic/political
power), and even the same tactics (armed violence, fortunately, being one
exception) begin to emerge that suggest some unpleasant connections among

For easier comparison, I break down these similarities according to coup
patterns in Guatemala, Chile, and Florida. Unless otherwise noted, the
information here is from David Halberstam's excellent book, The Fifties,
and from the Senate Select Committee to Study Governmental Operations with
Respect to Intelligence Activities (Church Report).

Guatemala: Prior to the legitimate election of Jacobo Arbenz to the
presidency in the early '50s, United Fruit Company controls most of the
country's land, economy, and politics. The land reform policies that
Arbenz wants to implement, which would redistribute United
Fruit-controlled land to Guatemalans, threaten United Fruit's economic
interests and political power in the region. United Fruit has close ties
to powerful figures in America, including Allen Dulles (Director of the
CIA) and his brother Foster (Secretary of State). The Dulles brothers and
others portray Arbenz as a communist threat and convince President
Eisenhower that a coup is in America's best interest.

Chile: Despite CIA covert efforts to defeat him, socialist Salvador
Allende is elected as president in 1970. His plan to nationalize Chilean
industries poses a direct threat to the reactionary Nixon Administration
and the multinational corporate interests it represents. Prior to
Allende's election, the CIA spent years and millions of dollars waging a
propaganda war to maintain a US/corporate-friendly government in Chile.
After the election, the Agency is instrumental in implementing Henry
Kissinger's desire to thwart Allende's policies and in supporting a
military coup being planned by General Augusto Pinochet.

Florida: Strategically important in the CIA's covert war against Cuba
(and other troublespots throughout Central and South America), Florida has
been home to CIA mercenary training camps since at least the '50s (such as
one in Opa-Locka).

There is also an interesting Bush connection to Florida (apart from Jeb
Bush holding the state's governorship). According to a report in The
Nation, days after the Kennedy assassination in 1963 a memo from J. Edgar
Hoover stated that a "Mr. George Bush of the Central Intelligence Agency"
had been briefed regarding the reaction of anti-Castro Cuban exiles in
Miami to the murder. Although George H.W. Bush claims the name he shares
with the "Mr. George Bush of the CIA" is coincidental, a source for the
story observed: "I know [Bush] was involved in the Caribbean. I know he
was involved in the suppression of things after the Kennedy assassination.
There was a very definite worry that some Cuban groups were going to move
against Castro and attempt to blame it on the CIA." (see Joseph McBride,
"'George Bush,' CIA Operative," The Nation, July 16/23, 1988, p. 42).

The Players

What follows is a very general review of similar interests and
organizations involved in some manner in Guatemala, Chile, and Florida.


CIA: Director Allen Dulles is a key player in organizing the coup.

Multinational: United Fruit Company is known as "el pulpo" ("the
octopus&quot because of its pervasive influence over so many facets of the

Rightwing Militarists Takeover: A reactionary military junta is installed
after the coup, fronted by the CIA-selected Carlos Enrique Castillo Armas.
The junta is responsible for the mass murder of dissidents and years of
brutal repression.


CIA: For a detailed analysis of widespread US covert activities in Chile,
see the Church Report.

Multinationals: "In addition to providing information and cover to the
CIA, multinational corporations also participated in covert attempts to
influence Chilean politics." Church Report. Among the corporations
actively opposed to Allende's election and his socialist experiment were
ITT, Pepsi-Cola, and the Chase Manhattan Bank.

Rightwing Militarists Takeover: With CIA support and the blessings of the
Nixon Administration, General Augusto Pinochet establishes a brutal and
reactionary military junta after the coup. As in Guatemala, the junta is
repressive and responsible for the mass murder of dissidents (including
Americans Charles Horman and Frank Terrugi, both of whom were tortured and
executed. According to a US State Department memo dated August 25, 1976,
the CIA "may have played an unfortunate part" in both deaths. See


CIA: At least one "former" CIA operative (Charles Kane) is implicated in
shady activities during the Florida election. The attorney for those
investigating Kane's involvement in tampering with absentee ballots said
Kane's efforts were part of a "sinister underground conspiracy." ("Florida
Official Admits Helping GOP," Associated Press, December 7, 2000).

Multinationals: Oil, insurance, tobacco, pharmaceuticals, etc., all have
concerns about a Gore presidency and its potential for regulatory
activism. These corporations are eager to bring "business special
interests into politics so they can take over the regulatory bodies of
government and regulate themselves. ("America in the Grip of Bush's 'Iron
Triangle,'" The Observer, December 3, 2000).

Rightwing Militarists Takeover: The Bush Administration has established
"itself as the most brazenly rightwing of modern times. As the ecstatic
head of the ultra-conservative Heritage Foundation enthuses, the new crowd
are 'more Reaganite than the Reagan administration.'" (The Guardian,
April 25, 2001). Among the appointments Bush has made are Cold Warriors
(e.g., Donald Rumsfield), old Iran/Contra characters and intelligence
operatives (e.g., John Negroponte and Otto Reich; see The Nation, May 7,
2001: "Lie to the Media, Get a Job," by Eric Alterman).


Media Manipulation/Reality Distortion

Guatemala: CIA "deftly created a fictional war over the airwaves, one in
which the government troops faltered and refused to fight and in which the
liberation troops were relentlessly moving toward Guatemala City."

Chile: "Press placements [by the CIA] were attractive because each
placement might produce a multiplier effect, being picked up and replayed
by media outlets other than the one in which it originally came out."
Church Report

Florida: John Ellis, Bush's first cousin, at the rightwing Fox News
decides to declare the state for Bush after 2 a.m., causing the other
networks to do likewise, creating the lasting (and false) impression that
Bush won the election.

Press Collusion

Guatemala: " . . . one crucial ingredient left for the success of the coup
. . . was the cooperation, voluntary and involuntary, of the American
press. This meant it was necessary for the press corps to tell the public
that the coup was the work of an indigenous Guatemalan force." Halberstam

Practically all American reporters cooperate, with the exception of NYT
reporter Sydney Gruson. After CIA director Allen Dulles puts pressure on
the Times, Gruson is removed from covering Guatemala. "It was an important
moment," writes Halberstam, "a warning to the paper's top executives about
the potential difference between the agenda of the secret government and
that of serious journalism."

Chile: Excerpts from the Church Report . . ."The most common form of a
propaganda project is simply the development of 'assets' in media
organizations who can place articles or be asked to write them."
"According to CIA documents, the Time correspondent in Chile apparently
had accepted Allende's protestations of moderation and constitutionality
at face value. Briefings requested by Time and provided by the CIA in
Washington resulted in a change in the basic thrust of the Time story on
Allende's September 4 victory and in the timing of that story." "According
to the CIA, partial returns showed that 726 articles, broadcasts,
editorials, and similar items directly resulted from Agency activity. The
Agency had no way to measure the scope of the multiplier effect . . . but
concluded that its contribution was both substantial and significant."

Florida: After Election Day, airwaves are saturated with rightwing
commentators, such as Ann Coulter, accusing Gore of being a "nutcase" who
is trying to steal an election that was, at the very least, in dispute; at
the most, it was a victory for Gore. (See "GOP Won by Planting Seeds of
Deception, by Roger Ebert, Chicago Sun-Times, December 14, 2000).

Lewis Lapham of Harper's noted that the "poisonous language" and
"paranoid" arguments being aired at the time were mostly coming from
rightwingers (although the Democrats were not free from "unctuous
statement, rank hypocrisy, and bitter diatribe.&quot Still, when it came to
rancor and speciousness, he "didn't find the same sort of stupidity on the
Democratic side of the dispute."

A sidenote on the Press and the CIA: There are a number of articles
exposing the connections between the US media and the CIA. The most
famous expose was Carl Bernstein's "The CIA and the Media" in the October
20, 1977 issue of Rolling Stone. In it, Bernstein reveals the cooperation
during the '50s and '60s between major US media outlets and the
intelligence community, including, CBS, New York Times, Time, the Miami
Herald, and hundreds of others. The NY Times recently reported,
ironically enough, that the CIA has included news wire services (the now
Moonie-owned UPI, for example) as part of its "regular propaganda
apparatus;" this apparatus also included "Miami exile contacts with
Florida papers."

Although this report is based on a CIA document from the early '60s, it
was also reported this year (or underreported) that US Army psychological
operations personnel (responsible for spreading propaganda) were placed at
CNN's TV, radio, and satellite bureaus during the Kosovo war. (From a
report by Alexander Cockburn in Counterpunch, cited among AlterNet's Top
Ten Censored Stories of 2000).

Staging "Spontaneous" Revolts/Protests

Guatemala: CIA creates the "rebel army" that is supposed to be an
indigenous uprising. "One of the CIA's main responsibilities was to keep
American journalists out of the area lest they find out how pathetic
Castillo Armas's army really was." Halberstam

Chile: "The CIA was directed to undertake an effort to promote a military
coup in Chile to prevent the accession to power of Salvador Allende."
(This particular coup fell apart). Church Report.

Florida: Republican operatives are bussed into Miami in a GOP-orchestrated
campaign to shut down the recount effort and intimidate (and even
physically assault) Democratic election officials.

Targeting Special Groups for Propaganda

Chile: "The covert propaganda efforts in Chile also included 'black'
propaganda-material falsely purporting to be the product of a particular
individual or group . . . the CIA used 'black' propaganda to sow discord
between the Communists and the Socialists and between the national labor
confederation and the Chilean Communist Party." Church Report

Florida: African Americans received calls the weekend before the election
from a speaker who falsely claimed to be with the NAACP, asking them to
vote for Bush. (Midwest Today, December 2000: "Scary Facts About the
Florida Vote," by Larry Jordan).


Where does mere coincidence end and meaningful patterns begin? Even if
the events in Florida listed here (along with the more detailed reports
being filed by investigative journalists) are removed from the context of
covert actions, it is easy to conclude that something profoundly
disturbing happened in the previous election.

Reviewing the increasing amount of evidence demonstrating just how dirty
the 2000 election was, however, is it so unreasonable to think that those
interests whose hands remain sullied from Florida would have sunk one
notch lower into the murky depths of covert operations? What are the
limits when the objective is to grab power at any cost?

And what will those who seized that power do next time in order to hold on
to it?

SOURCE: http://www.bartcop.com/coupsp.htm


(55,745 posts)
39. CIA was mucking in Florida...
Wed Mar 23, 2016, 07:24 AM
Mar 2016

..."Retired" of course...otherwise it would be illegal and the illegal they don't do domestically, they call in the Mafia.

The DU2 posts no longer pop up on my computer screen, but have cached sampler:


Ex CIA agent helped count stuff at home.


(55,745 posts)
64. CIA moonlights in corporate world
Wed Mar 23, 2016, 08:39 AM
Mar 2016

A Fed told a bartender's cousin I met one time that the really big money these days isn't in narcotrafficking any more, it's in finance.

CIA moonlights in corporate world

Politico, 2/1/10

In the midst of two wars and the fight against Al Qaeda, the CIA is offering operatives a chance to peddle their expertise to private companies on the side — a policy that gives financial firms and hedge funds access to the nation’s top-level intelligence talent, POLITICO has learned.

In one case, these active-duty officers moonlighted at a hedge-fund consulting firm that wanted to tap their expertise in “deception detection,” the highly specialized art of telling when executives may be lying based on clues in a conversation.

The never-before-revealed policy comes to light as the CIA and other intelligence agencies are once again under fire for failing to “connect the dots,” this time in the Christmas Day bombing plot on Northwest Flight 253.


But the close ties between active-duty and retired CIA officers at one consulting company show the degree to which CIA-style intelligence gathering techniques have been employed by hedge funds and financial institutions in the global economy.

The firm is called Business Intelligence Advisors, and it is based in Boston. BIA was founded and is staffed by a number of retired CIA officers, and it specializes in the arcane field of “deception detection.” BIA’s clients have included Goldman Sachs and the enormous hedge fund SAC Capital Advisors, according to spokesmen for both firms.



PS: Wouldn't it be great if WE were in on a piece of the action, AtomicKitten? Oooh. Big times!


(55,745 posts)
65. The newer crowd acts like they have yet to learn how DU came to be.
Wed Mar 23, 2016, 08:41 AM
Mar 2016

They certainly know the Dude's dog whistles.

Most importantly: You are welcome, haikugal! Deutsey is a Treasure.


(5,217 posts)
38. Yes, it must be disappointing to learn that you have been worshipping a cheater who can't win
Wed Mar 23, 2016, 07:24 AM
Mar 2016




(1,748 posts)
41. And she's a known liar. A really bad liar who can't seem to stop lying
Wed Mar 23, 2016, 07:32 AM
Mar 2016

That she has all this support is a sad commentary on the state of this party



(1,748 posts)
50. No, she lied about supporting NAFTA, about 'sniper fire'_
Wed Mar 23, 2016, 08:24 AM
Mar 2016

about supporting TPP, etc etc etc

That people are upset about Republican disenfranchisement aiding the GOP-lite candidate running as a dem is understandable.



(1,748 posts)
59. That is true. But she is nonetheless a cheater.
Wed Mar 23, 2016, 08:32 AM
Mar 2016

When she lies about Bernie's votes, when she used racist dog whistle attacks against Obama, there are many examples of her low, sleazy Rovian tactics.

She's a liar and a cheater <- those are facts.


geek tragedy

(68,868 posts)
44. There is no evidence whatsoever of Clinton cheating.
Wed Mar 23, 2016, 08:17 AM
Mar 2016

Just Sanders fans whining and making shit up because they like to ignore reality.


wilt the stilt

(4,528 posts)
25. bernie taught his supporters well
Wed Mar 23, 2016, 07:11 AM
Mar 2016

on how to whine. I first noticed this Bernie whining phenomena when he started to whine about his dad being underemployed and going to see "death of a salesman". Like his father was the only immigrant who had it hard. You done well Bernie. Whining is in.


(9,841 posts)
26. Exactly right. At the very least, no one should be dismissing these problems lightly.
Wed Mar 23, 2016, 07:12 AM
Mar 2016

Unless they think democracy is just one gang trying to steal from another gang, where everything the enemy "gang" does is bad, but whatever their "gang" does is ok. Why do I say that, because that's exactly how some people are acting.


(36,649 posts)
48. Right. Clinton folks are stealing ballot boxes in AZ, and changing the rules during the vote counts.
Wed Mar 23, 2016, 08:21 AM
Mar 2016

And you HAVE PROOF of this, of course.



(28,270 posts)
54. Bernie Sanders has not filed a formal complaint against
Wed Mar 23, 2016, 08:27 AM
Mar 2016

any of these state elections. You do the fucking math.

If its good enough for Bernie, its good enough for me!


(10,565 posts)
68. Nader Denialism Lives!! Thank the FL protest voters for helping
Wed Mar 23, 2016, 08:47 AM
Mar 2016

to give us Bush/Cheney and the Iraq War. Elections have consequences. There were other issues but this was in the hands of the voters. Nader's "Not a dimes worth of difference" reminds me of those who call one of the Senate's most liberal Senators a Republican. Go figure


(31,935 posts)
72. Nader was not a factor. It was a coordinated theft by the GOP with the help of State police
Wed Mar 23, 2016, 03:05 PM
Mar 2016

I was there. I sa the police screaming at voters and man handling them firsthand. They tried every dirty trick imaginable to stop people in dem districts from voting. The ONLY journalist who wrote about it was Greg Palast of the BBC.

Stop providing cover for criminal acts: IT'S ALL ON THE GOP!


(93,146 posts)
69. Okay kids: Snap Quiz!!!
Wed Mar 23, 2016, 08:48 AM
Mar 2016

What do IOWA, NEVADA, MASSACHUSETTS and ARIZONA all have in common?

Think hard!!!


(31,935 posts)
71. Knew? I watched it firsthand!
Wed Mar 23, 2016, 03:02 PM
Mar 2016

I gave depositions, press interviews, marched on Tallahassee, and yet the ONLY journalist who published our accounts was Greg Palast of the BBC. It wasn't reported on then (the voter suppression BY THE POLICE) which set up their ability to do the same whenever they wish elsewhere. Don't be complacent; FIGHT THIS SHIT! Contact the media:

General media contact information, including emails, addresses, and phone numbers:

Other than voting, donating to Bernie, and talking to people you know about Bernie's policy positions and history, THE SINGLE GREATEST THING you can do to help his campaign is to WRITE A HARD COPY LETTER to the media protesting their Bernie Blackout and wall to wall Trump coverage! Mention that you will be contacting and boycotting their advertisers if they continue the Bernie blackout and Trump "infomercials". I know people who work in newsrooms, and I am told that one hard copy letter has the weight of 100 emails to a news director. This is, they have added, a huge reason why the media skews to the Right; right wingers mail in letters frequently, the Left never does, so the perception is that only the right wing is dissatisfied with their "reporting". Let us change that notion TODAY!

Please borrow time from posting here and on Facebook TODAY to write letters to FIVE of the organizations listed below. When finished, post the text of your letter and who you contacted to this thread.

ABC News: 147 Columbus Ave. New York, NY 10023

CBS News: 524 W. 57 St. New York, NY 10019

NBC News: 30 Rockefeller Plaza, New York, N.Y. 10112

MSNBC: One MSNBC Plaza, Secaucus, NJ 07094

CNN: One CNN Center, Atlanta, GA, 30303

New York Times: 620 8th Ave. New York, NY 10018

The Washington Post: 1301 K Street NW, Washington DC 20071

National Public Radio: 1111 N. Capitol St, NE, Washington DC, DC 20002


(212) 621-1500


(3,160 posts)
80. No one would expect the media to report on its own complicity in the debacle
Wed Mar 23, 2016, 03:48 PM
Mar 2016

But I have promoted the HBO documentary



(10,007 posts)
77. What is amazing is that even with the debacles of 2000 and 2004,
Wed Mar 23, 2016, 03:39 PM
Mar 2016

no prominent Democrat has even begun to address the problem.


(14,459 posts)
89. It is amazing
Wed Mar 23, 2016, 10:18 PM
Mar 2016

A lot of us pushed for investigations into the election rigging and to remove the ways it was happening. Nothing came of it- out party let it all happen and left the mechanisms in place to be used later.

Apparently they kept it all there to use in case they needed it themselves.



(10,007 posts)
90. There is no other reason to ignore such a problem, other than the intention of using it themselves.
Thu Mar 24, 2016, 01:16 AM
Mar 2016

Nothing else makes sense.

Sky Masterson

(5,240 posts)
92. Another fun fact: Al Gore was boring and inspired not a soul that didn't already like him
Thu Mar 24, 2016, 04:29 AM
Mar 2016

Hillary Clinton is just as boring.
People vote for who they like usually and more people hate her than like her.
If Al gore was just a hair more likable he might have won without Nader being a factor.
Also, Boring John Kerry was also defeated while the inspirational and likable black fella won twice.
You pick Bores you lose.

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