Open Primaries for New York #SchumerOpenPrimaries, Sign the petition!

[pantsonfire]

Last edited Sat Mar 26, 2016, 12:04 AM - Edit history (1)

Dear Senator Schumer,

We, the undersigned call on you to demand that the New York State Democratic Party open its 2016 Presidential Primaries to the over 2.9 million independent voters in our state.

http://www.openprimariesny.nyc/

[giftedgirl77]

1. Or the could just follow election laws & get their shit straight ahead

of time.

Stop acting like petulant children.

[DemocratSinceBirth]

3. I don't believe Senator Schumer can unilaterally change his state party's election rules.

Do they not teach Civics any more?

[giftedgirl77]

16. Apparently not, since most don't understand how caucuses

& closed primaries work either.

[stopbush]

175. The State legislature decides which kind of primary they will hold.

It's up to the political parties to decide if they want to participate.

The options are 1. accept the state's format and participate, or 2. don't accept the format and don't hold a primary in that state.

[CorkySt.Clair]

217. Most Bernie supporters are new to politics

So everything that doesn't work completely in Bern's favor must be adjusted, changed, done away with, ridiculed, treated with contempt and suspicion and above all, whined about relentlessly.

[pantsonfire]

223. At least they care about politics for a change...nt

[Walk away]

228. Here is a link to my post that explains the NYS primary rule that....

makes independents and republicans or people registered as anything but a Democrat, not qualified to vote in the Democratic primary in NYS. It has been too late to chance since October 22 2015.

http://www.democraticunderground.com/110780014

This is not going to change. The rule is there for a reason. NYS Democrats don't want people from other parties acting as spoilers for their Democratic candidates.

[artyteacher]

6. yeah, this.

How about you sign a petition that allows independents to vote twice and also makes it illegal for anyone over 40 to vote too?

[NurseJackie]

18. This sums it up perfectly. Thank you!

What are they thinking?

[pantsonfire]

8. Follow election laws...

Are you for or against open primaries?

[giftedgirl77]

13. Follow the law.

Stop trying to change the rules when it favors the Independent Senator bc he gets his ass beat in closed primaries.

[pdsimdars]

51. small perspective. . ..

If you are interested in winning the general election, you can't do it with Democrats alone. They are only 30%f of voters. Hillary does LOUSEY in the Independents.
So she may win among Democrats and lose big in the GE.
Are you more interested in Hillary at any cost or do you really want the best candidate for the GE?

SIGNED

[giftedgirl77]

130. I could give a shit less if it's BS or HRC.

Both have major flaws but are a million times better than the thugs. But laws are laws, just bc some clueless voters were too busy voting in online polls to ensure they were good to go when voting actually counts is a personal problem. In a perfect world we would be required to vote & it would be a national holiday. But we don't & life lessons are important.

[Amimnoch]

144. Wow. I'd hug you. K&R this response.

Perfectly stated imo.

[giftedgirl77]

145. Aww thanks.

[stopbush]

178. So-called Independent voters break down evenly across party lines.

Statistically, only 5% of Independent voters are actually independent to the level that they would consider either major party candidate equally. 95% of so-called Indies lean heavily left or right, and are predisposed to vote for the same party over and over again.

Which is why Indies never really decide elections. It's a wash.

[stopbush]

174. I'm against open primaries.

Why should a R get a say in who the D Party runs and vice versa? Why should an Indy get a say in either major party contest when they don't have the guts to be a member of either party?

If you're an Indy, form your own damn party and have your own damn primary.

[Laser102]

192. Agreed. I don't want open primaries for that reason. Love the "form your own damn party".

[pnwmom]

200. I'm strongly for closed primaries. If you want to vote Democratic,

then join the party.

If it's good enough for Bernie, it's good enough for his supporters.

[George II]

155. Indeed.

[FourScore]

209. The date to change party affiliation in NY was back in October.

Most people still had never heard of Bernie Sanders.

[giftedgirl77]

211. Toooo bad, know your election laws.

[Walk away]

230. Maybe so but I don't think he was a Democrat yet back then.

It really helps when you aren't just pretending to be a member of a party. It's makes a difference. He could have run as an Independent and then everyone could have voted for him in the primary. He was the one who decided to join us so he will have to play by the rules.

[FourScore]

231. He did so he wouldn't split the vote and give the election to the Republicans. n/t

[Walk away]

233. That funny because he recently said that he ran as a Democrate in order to get more exposure.

So far I don't see Bernie as giving a shit about the party. He seems to be in it for himself. You know, promise what you can't deliver. Give no support to any down ticket Dems.
Hillary will win the nomination so let's see how much he cares about the party and having a Democrat in the White House.

[Trust Buster]

2. Why should non-Democrats decide the Democratic nominee ? Start your own party.

[Jitter65]

12. Because Sanders can't win any other way. That's why. nt

[pantsonfire]

23. He would benefit from the independent vote that is currently being silenced.

[Codeine]

27. If they aren't part of this party

then they don't need to make decisions for this party. Simple as that.

[redstateblues]

78. silenced? hardly. This is the Democratic primary

not the Indy party

[Pisces]

151. They could join a party if they want to vote in the primary. No one is silencing them. They are

choosing not to vote in closed primaries. This is not secret information.

[pantsonfire]

154. They can in some states, not in NY if you decide too late to register, but that's your fault.

In CA, you can walk into the polling station and vote for any democrat you want regardless of your party affiliation (not the case with Republicans, I believe). We have a modified closed primary system.

[Retrograde]

166. In California, the party decides who may vote in its primary

This year, the Democratic, Libertarian and American Independent parties are allowing Non-Partisan voters to vote in their presidential primaries; Republicans and the rest aren't. In other years - I remember 2010 specifically, since I got to vote against Fiorina twice - Republicans allowed NPs to vote in their primaries but not the Democrats. After 2012, California went to open primaries for all offices other than president.

[stopbush]

177. Silenced? From what? Not being able to vote for Trump?

[pantsonfire]

14. Independents might like to vote for a democrat or republican....

This is the problem with our two-party system, it leaves out those who identify with ideals from both parties, is it not somewhat undemocratic?

[brooklynite]

82. And they''ll get that choice...in the General Election.

[stopbush]

179. Bingo!

[pantsonfire]

220. A choice between two candidates they had no decision in making...

[brooklynite]

221. They shouldn't get a "decision in making"...

...if they're not willing to meet the minimal requirement of registering with the Party who's candidate they want a decision in making. If they want to be independent from a Political Party, they can wait and wait what the Party offers them.

[pantsonfire]

222. I detest our primary system....nt

[LisaM]

205. Do you understand the purpose of primaries?

It's for the parties to choose their candidates (and not just the two parties, if the Green party or the Libertarian party had two people running they'd be subject to the same rules).

None of this precludes someone from running as an Independent in the general election. No one is being "silenced". I don't think it's right for people to party-hop just to game the process.

It's not American Idol. You don't get to make a mockery of the process by clubbing together with your friends to vote for Sanjaya.

[Tarc]

4. Changing the rules mid-stream?

How very Reince Priebus-ish of you.

[artyteacher]

9. well said. eom

[pantsonfire]

15. What's wrong with making an election more democratic?

[Tarc]

59. A political party chooses its rules, that's kinda how it works

Limiting the choice to people actually registered to the party is well within their right. If you want to vote in New York, join, it's that simple.

[Jim Lane]

214. In New York, at least, that's kinda NOT how it works.

The eligibility for voting in primaries is set by state law. A unanimous Democratic State Committee, plus Schumer for good measure, could demand that independents be allowed to vote in the Democratic primary and it wouldn't have any effect. It's up to the state legislature and the Governor.

[LuvLoogie]

131. Sorry. No anti-Hillary, right-wing crossover cavalry to the rescue.

Most Democrats prefer the life-long Democrat who has been fighting for and working with Democrats her entire career.

Running out of right-wing ringers, huh?

[CorporatistNation]

234. No, Absolutely Wrong... What We Are attempting to Foster Is Democracy Given That "Someone"

or some group is systematically acting to undermine the people's Right To Vote.

"Someone" or some entity figures that if we alter the party registrations of a certain proportion of party voters, especially those who are exceptionally motivated to vote for a given candidate "they" figure that an advantage can be conveyed to "their" favored candidate. Specifically, THAT is what transpired in ARIZONA and continues to be engendered in other states such as New York as well.

[LuvLoogie]

236. The OP links to a petition to one of the most "corporatist" Democrats.

It makes its appeal based on an assertion Schumer made that all primaries be non partisan. That position COMPLETELY nullifies Democratic values and undermines Democratic solidarity. It allows the "powers that be" to promote ANY value or NO value but a socioeconomic balance sheet. This position that Schumer proposed and the OP petitions for is a "Third Way" wet dream.

[stopbush]

183. Nothing that getting involved in a political party

and spending the years it takes to rise up the chain to occupy a party position where one can advocate for change from the inside wouldn't fix.

But calling for changes for one reason and one reason only: that the rules disadvantage Bernie Sanders and his too-cool-to-know-the-rules supporters?

Sorry. That's bullshit.

[cantbeserious]

5. Signed

eom

[pantsonfire]

26. Great! To me open primaries = more democratic

[brer cat]

199. Is it more democratic

to allow republicans to throw out a democrat they hate? They did that in GA to eliminate Cynthia McKinney. If you are such a pure independent that you can't bring yourself to align with the party prior to the primaries, then you need to sit it out until the GE or form your own party and make your own rules.

[pantsonfire]

235. Or move to a country with a better democratic government....nt

[rjsquirrel]

7. Lol yeah right

That's not gonna happen. NY is a machine politics state and has been for a very long time. Politics is a business here. Not a philosophy contest.

The rules have been good enough to assure a democrat wins every four years in the general. Why would NY's dem leadership invite gun nutter upstate republicans to ratfuck our long established party system here?

As a New Yorker I favor closed primaries.

[artyteacher]

11. right on eom

[pantsonfire]

20. You're fearful the Republicans will take over in an open primary?

[DemocratSinceBirth]

22. What would prohibit them from doing so?

They did steal a presidential election from one Democrat and engineered a coup against another one that fortunately failed.

[rjsquirrel]

29. Not hardly

We outnumber then vastly statewide.

But they can ratfuck a primary sure. If I were a republican voting in an open primary where Trump
Was sure to win the GOP side (definitely true in NY) I would be voting for Bernie just to screw the Dems.

I'm not fearful. Quite the opposite. Dems own NY state solidly and I see no reason to give the GOP any tools to use against us.

Anyway it's not happening. I've been involved in NY politics for 35 years off and on. I've lived here most of my life. Anyone who thinks Schumer andGillebrand and Cuomo are gonna go for the Bernie Sour Grapes brigade's bright idea doesn't know anything about NY.

But even if it happened, Clinton will be winning NY by double digits. Bet on it.

[pantsonfire]

58. You're probably right, though an open primary is a tool...

Since independents are on the rise, it'd be good for the future of the party to not force them to identify as something and let them be free to choose on election day. Perhaps this would increase membership?

[rjsquirrel]

64. Here's the thing

If you are a liberal New Yorker like me, you can safely register Ind in most years. This year I switched to D to vote in the primary but in lost years we don't really have particularly contested elections in NY. Long term this is as much a problem as one party rule in red states. But New York is a paradise by comparison.

Ironically I switched to D from I last fall planning to vote for Bernie as an way to pull Clinton left. But now I've lost patience with Bernie supporters and will be voting for Hillary, since this year (like Bernie) I am a democrat.

[pantsonfire]

193. I feel the same with Hillary Supporters...

I was banned from their group for such a banal reason. And Apparently they've banned over 600, many of whom have argued they were for similar reasons. Goes both ways I suppose.

[redstateblues]

201. I got banned from the Bernie Bus for something small-I didn't

know I was in bernieworld. I warn BSS in the Hillary group if they are crossing the line

[pantsonfire]

218. What was the reason given? Or non at all?

[rjsquirrel]

216. I've been banned from both

because I have a sharp set of squirrel teeth and I don't let go.

[pantsonfire]

219. well there you go...what group cages you now?

[rjsquirrel]

225. Free range squirrel eom

[Her Sister]

44. second triple this!

That's not gonna happen. NY is a machine politics state and has been for a very long time. Politics is a business here. Not a philosophy contest.

The rules have been good enough to assure a democrat wins every four years in the general. Why would NY's dem leadership invite gun nutter upstate republicans to ratfuck our long established party system here?

As a New Yorker I favor closed primaries.

As a NYer myself, we are good to go!

[workinclasszero]

17. You wish

New York state isn't going to change its election rules to benefit Bernie.

If Sanders fans refuse to play by them, oh well.

[pantsonfire]

21. Would it not benefit democracy? At least 20% of Americans identify as Independents

[workinclasszero]

31. Its a contest to determine the democratic candidate

for President.

I have zero problems with only democrats voting on it.

I wish all the elections were like this, it cuts out republican shenanigans and give a true picture of who democrats want as their candidate.

[pantsonfire]

60. I identify as an independent and..

I'm voting for Bernie and Hillary if she wins the nomination, I can do that in CA thankfully.

[sufrommich]

19. ...............

[Jitter65]

24. Most life-long Democrats do not appreciate their candidate being decided by outsiders.

And before you get your panties in a wad, I said "most." We appreciate the people who have worked long and hard for the party and withstood a lot of bullcrap.l We need to concentrate on getting the House and Senate to be able to help our candidates. Sanders voters only care about voting for him and most of them don't even understand the down ticket issues and will cast only votes for things like minimum wage and Sanders. Sanders has done almost irreversible damage to party unity because he and his supporters will not support our candidate if she wins like Hillary did wen Obama won. The Clintons became Obama's staunch campaigners and supporters after the election. That won't happen with Sanders and his supporters. Just look at the comments here.

[pantsonfire]

32. Over 50% of Hillary supporter's in 08 said they wouldn't vote for Obama...

http://politicalticker.blogs.cnn.com/2008/05/06/exit-polls-half-of-clintons-supporters-wont-back-obama/

Who are these outsiders?

[marions ghost]

39. Different ball game

---

[pantsonfire]

61. True, but its what at 33% Sanders supporters wouldn't...

[marions ghost]

114. Not getting your point

can you clarify?

[pantsonfire]

137. 50% vs. 33%

Hillary 50 vs. Bernie 33...most likely "berniebots and their bros" will vote for Clinton.

[marions ghost]

138. Gotcha

thx

[marions ghost]

38. You get people into voting first

and then they start paying attention to your down ticket candidates.

Open primaries are the ONLY Democratic solution.

The damage to the party has been done by "win at all costs" Hillary supporters who are controlling the party.

This primary process has been an eye-opener to people who WILL be voting in future elections. The Democratic party has lost them as consistent voters, that much is obvious.

But maybe in your book it's OK for the Democratic party to be a small tent.

[pantsonfire]

63. What? Wisdom finally appears on this thread...

I was beginning to worry.

[stopbush]

180. Let's see:

• Bernie is the candidate who is calling for the super delegates to ignore the will of the voters and vote for him at the convention, even if Hillary has a YUGE lead in pledged delegates and the popular vote. This after he first said that they should vote for him if the won the most delegates/popular vote (both of which he is losing badly).

• Bernie's campaign is the one the stole Hillary's voter data.

• Bernie's campaign is the campaign that is under two YUGE and wide-ranging FEC notices of violation for illegal campaign contributions.

• Bernie is the candidate who now disparages Hillary many times in his stump speech and doesn't say a word when his supporters boo the very mention of her name out of his mouth. So much for Mr Never Ran a Negative Campaign. Liar.

• Bernie's campaign is the campaign calling for the long-set rules regulating state primaries to be changed whenever they disadvantage his candidacy and his low-information supporters, while Hillary is content to play by the rules, no matter what the rules are in a given state.

But Hillary is the "win at all costs" candidate.

Got it!

[marions ghost]

181. No you really don't got it

and I can't help ya.

[stopbush]

182. Oh, I think I know the lay of the land.

Been voting D since 1972.

This lifelong Dem is tired of the whining coming out of that loser Sanders camp and his willfully ignorant supporters.

I look forward to the day that he finally gives us all a break and retires to his back bench in the Senate.

[marions ghost]

186. Spoken like a RepugliCon

If you're a Third Wayer, at least you're not trying to pretend the Dem party is a big tent.

[stopbush]

187. If, whatever. Who cares?

You view the world through a narrow funnel, just like Sanders.

Falling back on worn clichés and tired stereotypes is typical of navel gazers. Tossing in victims and the victimizers is just an extension of linear thinking. Someone disagrees with you and they just MUST be some version of evil incarnate. Childish.

Hope you enjoy watching Sanders go down in flames.

While you're posting pictures, how about one of Sanders standing next to an F35?

[marions ghost]

188. Don't know you so how can I think you are evil?

Well I guess making a mild RethugliCon comparison might be construed as inferring that you are evil. Nah, it's just the bullying thing that drips from ur posts, y'know. So typical of them Rethugs. Nastiness like you're dishing isn't evil, it's just a big yawn.

blood sugar, donut?

[stopbush]

194. I see no reason to coddle you or your views.

Marketplace of ideas, and all that rot.

[marions ghost]

196. I see, nasty = not coddling

OK then, your opinion on commas?

[stopbush]

198. I am not in favor of the serial comma.

I've spent a lot of my career as a writer, with the AP Stylebook being my guide. The extra comma uses an extra space, and when one is writing to a character count - as often happens in my line of work - any added character is a waste of valuable space.

[marions ghost]

203. Thank you

for that clearly stated opinion on a controversial topic, and no snark

Now this is something we agree on but I think we better stay away from politics. (OK we'd--if I had my way apostrophes would disappear entirely)

[Codeine]

25. I'm sure you can point to the legal authority

that allows Schumer to unilaterally make that change a month before the primary? If you'd like to be part of the party nomination process then you're free to join the party, otherwise too bad.

[George II]

156. Actually, Schumer, Kirsten Gillebrand, and Charles Rangel are those who make election law...

...in NYS!

[DCBob]

28. LOL..

You really think Schumer wants to do anything to help Bernie??

[pantsonfire]

34. It's a protest letter, he probably doesn't, but if you believe in open primaries...

then why the heck not voice your opinion? Though one NY on here said he prefers closed for fear of "outsiders" taking over.

[DCBob]

36. I think all primaries should be closed.

This is the Democratic primary to pick the nominee for the Democratic party. It should be decided by Democrats.

[DanTex]

30. Translation: Bernie is losing, so change the rules!

[workinclasszero]

33. Nailed it

[pantsonfire]

37. It's not going to change, but do you agree with the closed primary system?

It seems like closing it off to independents, further disenfranchises them from ever becoming a democrat.

[marions ghost]

40. Closed primary has got to go

even backward North Carolina has semi-open primaries where you can choose your ballot (D, R or "non-partisan&quot .

[workinclasszero]

41. Yes I agree with democrats voting for democrats

Pick a side or don't.

[pantsonfire]

65. Why do we have to accept there are only two sides?

The world isn't black and white.

[workinclasszero]

72. You don't have to

You can start your own political party anytime you want.

[pantsonfire]

83. What sould I call it?

Do you think we'll have a three party system in the future? I don't want to get my hopes up.

[MADem]

132. We have multiple parties in this nation.

None of them want to get off their asses and get serious about establishing and growing a local and then a statewide presence, though--that takes a generation or more. There are always a few enclaves here and there, of Greens, Reform Partiers, Libertarians, etc., but none of them want to invest in, and grow candidates--they always want to go to the top of the national heap straight off.

[stopbush]

184. Nope. How is it closing it off to Is?

You can become a D any time you want. Just change your voter registration.

Simple. Done. You're a D. Now, enjoy voting in the D primary.

[Starry Messenger]

75. Boom.

[pantsonfire]

84. and democracy dies....

[Starry Messenger]

94. Lulz

Register as a dem before the primary. It's that easy. The due dates are public.

[pantsonfire]

113. I'm fine here in CA, I can vote for whoever I want on primary day.

[brer cat]

212. Drama, drama!

You are not helping your cause by overhyping.

[alcibiades_mystery]

147. I think the Arizona result woke up some of the "Favorable Map / Favorable Calendar" crew

Oh, you mean Bernie isn't going to win the rest of the races? Oh, you mean Bernie really does need to make up a 300 delegate deficit somehow?

Oh.

Oh.

Oh, no.

[NurseJackie]

163. Perfect summation!

This is obviously an ongoing theme. Pity.

If all this effort and energy had been applied earlier (instead of AFTER the fact) then they might have been a little more competitive.

Woulda coulda shoulda. A day late and a dollar short.

[Number23]

238. Pretty fucking much!

And I am laughing my ass off reading the excuses in this thread for why Democrats should allow non-Dems to decide their candidate.

[leftynyc]

35. No

It's called a Democratic primary for Democrats to vote in. Let the independents get their own primary or they can register as Democrats. Don't fuck with NY laws because a person you prefer decided to run as a Democrat.

[pantsonfire]

43. Independent voters are on the rise....

Those skeptical about the ability of political parties to survive deep into the twenty-first century also point out that party identification is on the wane. The number of independents—those claiming no party affiliation—has increased dramatically over the past thirty years. And split-ticket voting is more and more common—rather than voting a straight-party ticket, more individuals vote for both Democrats and Republicans in the same election.

http://www.shmoop.com/political-parties/future-political-parties.html

[leftynyc]

46. Nothing stopping you or them

from having a primary. Knock yourself out. Only Democrats will vote in our Democratic primary.

[pantsonfire]

67. Ok, good luck with that.

[leftynyc]

69. Thank you

We always do just fine.

[DrDan]

42. the vote is for the DEMOCRATIC nominee - if you want to vote, register

it's really quite simple

[pantsonfire]

47. unless you can't decide until the day before due to unforseen circumstances...

You decide to not vote for your republican candidate, but now you can't vote democrat. Or can you?

[DrDan]

52. either register by the appropriate time - or you do not get to vote

why should those not affiliated with a party help select the candidate for that party?

sorry for "unforeseen" circumstances, but that's life.

[pantsonfire]

68. You realize you had to register by October, six months before the primary...

[DrDan]

70. it was not a secret, right?

and it applies to both/all parties? right?

Then no fraud or election tampering.

Harsh, perhaps. But work to change it if you disagree with it.

[pantsonfire]

85. I will, you on board to help for next election?

[DrDan]

89. not an issue in my state

[Pisces]

153. The campaigns knew this information. I get 4 emails a day from Bernie. Not 1 gave out this info.

[NewHampshiriteGuy]

45. So, a senator can change state laws?

So, Chuck Shumer, one of two US senators from NY, is supposed to unilaterally change the election laws of the state a few weeks before a primary even though he has no jurisdiction?

You know, NY has a governor, a secretary of the state, and a legislature that have much greater influence over state election laws than does the senator.

Voters had many months to register as a democrat if they wanted to vote in the primary, that's already built into the election laws! I mean, you have to join the party if you want to play a role in the party.

[pantsonfire]

49. You do in closed primaries...open primaries not the case.

Being an independent, you can still share many of the same values as democrats, but not fully identify as one.

[xynthee]

48. At the very least, people should be able to change their party affiliation

If you were registered as an independent back in October then decided in November you wanted to vote for Bernie in the primary, the only way you could do so would be to move to a different fucking state! The primary is in fucking April and you have to be registered as a Dem by OCTOBER?? Whose idea was this?

[pantsonfire]

53. The common democrat machine, hellbent on keeping its grip of power in NY.

I mean, better than Republicans, but gotta say it's like their putting themselves in a cage, that's their system though, gotta respect what NY'ers want.

[VulgarPoet]

50. Unsurprising, the Weathervaners imply they don't give a rat's ass about y'know,

the largest voting bloc in the country. 39% compared to 32% registered democrats.

Funny, that.

[DrDan]

56. then your candidate should be running as a, y'know, one of the 39%

not a Democrat. Either register by published time, or no vote.

[VulgarPoet]

57. Then I assume you've been doing your part to move democracy along

by helping third parties become more viable, even if you don't outright support them?

[DrDan]

62. I do happen to support them - I am registered as an independent - and fully recognize

and respect the fact that I cannot have a say in the Democratic primary - at least not with a vote

I can contribute and work for my candidate, however.

[pantsonfire]

71. Whaaaat?

Why didn't you register as a democrat?

[DrDan]

73. I prefer to remain an independent. My choice, right?

I vote Democratic. I work for Democrats. I contribute to Democrats.

I do not want to be officially tied to a party.

[pantsonfire]

87. You just said you can't vote democrat....

[DrDan]

90. in the primary - that is correct

[Blue_Adept]

54. :headdesk:

I get that people don't want to belong to a party.

But if you're not going to belong, you don't get to participate in the decision making process. It really is that simple. Either piss or get off the pot.

[JoePhilly]

55. I'll take straw grasping for $1000 Alex

[pantsonfire]

77. Daily Double

Topic: Democracy
How much will you risk Joe?

[JoePhilly]

79. Everything ... You don't change the rules ...

... in the middle of the election process.

That's a banana republic tactic.

Now pay up!

[pantsonfire]

91. Damn...

Where should I sent the check too?

[JoePhilly]

93. Send it to Bernie ... Looks like he could use it.

[pantsonfire]

121. Really?

I'd rather send it to Hillary, she needs more small donors too seem more authentic against campaign finance reform.

[Jitter65]

66. This kind of petition, real or not, will only anger the super delegates.

All this stuff should have been asked for prior to the primaries. It looks like an attempt to overthrow the Dem party by a bunch of outsiders. I think the supers will resent this. If we don't come together soon, we will surely lose to Trump in Nov. and we will have done it to ourselves. If Bernie doesn't win this primary he will be dead to most Democrats when it is over.

[pantsonfire]

74. BS

We won't come together because it seems like "real Democrats" don't want to open up the party to non-identified voters.

[brooklynite]

76. I don't like to call people naive...so I won't

I WILL point out that Senator Schumer AND the DNC have no influence over the NYS Legislature, which is divided between the Democratic Assembly and the Republican Senate, both of which would have to approve your change.

And by the way: an ONLINE PETITION that anyone can sign? DEFINITELY the way to change minds.

[pantsonfire]

81. I don't like to call people not ignorant...so I will.

It's a protest letter, just voicing my support for being able to make up your mind up until the time you vote, 6 months is long time from registration to the primary.

[brooklynite]

86. The last State election was in 2014....

and there was a general understanding that there'd be an election in 2016. If Independents didn't care enough to re-register, tough.

[pantsonfire]

95. Right, but they can't vote for a democrat, only another independent?

[brooklynite]

107. Correct, and that's fine with me

Political Parties select the candidates who represent their policies and goals. They provide operational and financial support to those candidates. They should have the right to select those candidates. If you choose not to be affiliated with a Party, you have the right to vote for any Party's candidate in the General Election; you do NOT have the right to arbitrarily step in and influence the choice of a Party you do not want to be a member of.

Consider the following: why should you only be allowed to vote in ONE Primary? Why shouldn't Independents be allowed to vote in both?

[pantsonfire]

119. I will consider it...

If you choose not to be affiliated with a Party, you have the right to vote for any Party's candidate in the General Election; you do NOT have the right to arbitrarily step in and influence the choice of a Party you do not want to be a member of.

What?

Consider the following: why should you only be allowed to vote in ONE Primary? Why shouldn't Independents be allowed to vote in both?

Huh?

[randome]

109. Then start an Independent Party!

Why should the Democratic Party primary be open to non-Democrats?
[hr][font color="blue"][center]TECT in the name of the Representative approves of this post.[/center][/font][hr]

[pantsonfire]

120. Yeah because the two-party system hasn't been dominant for 200 years.

I'll try my best, I'm working on resurrecting Teddy Roosevelt, I think he'll be a big help.

[geek tragedy]

80. Lol, too bad, so sad nt

[Renew Deal]

88. Don't waste your time. The only people that think this has a shot know nothing about NY.

Besides the fact that elections are a state issue, not a federal issue. NY has a very tightly controlled election system. Both parties like it that way. Also, there are too many voters to make last minute rule changes.

It's not going to happen for 2016, and I doubt it would ever happen in NY.

[pantsonfire]

98. You're right, I'm glad CA is different.

[Renew Deal]

103. Me too

[msanthrope]

92. What stage are we on? nt

[pantsonfire]

96. Stage Five

http://www.shmoop.com/political-parties/the-fifth-party-system.html

[msanthrope]

97. Bargaining. nt

[pantsonfire]

100. Just a little...

history.

[DemocratSinceBirth]

99. Mrs. Ross should have added a LOL stage.

[geek tragedy]

118. and a FAIL stage nt

[asuhornets]

101. Denied....n/t

[pantsonfire]

104. Hillary will win NY and probably the primary....

...and independents in the general will....hopefully not go to Trump.

[hrmjustin]

102. As a resident of NYC I will not sign this.

Besides Schumer has no say in this. This has been on the books in NY for decades.

[pantsonfire]

106. No one is forcing you.

[bravenak]

105. Why should he make that call for Independents?

They are NOT DEMOCRATS. I wish ALL of our primaries were closed to prevent a takeover from outsiders.

[pantsonfire]

108. Who are these outsiders i keep hearing about?

PRINCETON, NJ -- Forty-two percent of Americans, on average, identified as political independents in 2013, the highest Gallup has measured since it began conducting interviews by telephone 25 years ago. Meanwhile, Republican identification fell to 25%, the lowest over that time span. At 31%, Democratic identification is unchanged from the last four years but down from 36% in 2008.

http://www.gallup.com/poll/166763/record-high-americans-identify-independents.aspx

[bravenak]

110. INDEPENDENTS are outsiders to the DEMOCRATIC PARTY

Why should We Allow THEM in all of our primaries? They want to take down the establishment, why the hell should we dacilitate that process of taking down the established party we belong to. We need to CLOSE all primaries, REGARDLESS of how man there are. Many of them LEAN RIGHT, no need for them to participate. They can join or wait till the general after our party picks a candidate.

[pantsonfire]

112. There are independents inside the party as well, you just don't know who.

[bravenak]

115. Not enough to determine the winner

I do not care who they are, join the party in closed primary stares, or wait until the general. Harassing Senators just makes them look bad. People knew the registration deadline, now they want us to change the rules just for them. Such special snowflakes.

[pantsonfire]

122. Totally.

I'll leave it to NYers to make the right call.

[seaglass]

111. In reality only about 10% of Independents do not vote along party lines. That being said, in MA

unenrolled voters - which I am - are allowed to choose either an R or D ballot during the primary and can maintain their unenrolled status after they vote.

If, as an unenrolled voter, I was not allowed to vote in the Democratic primary I would register as a Democrat. Easy peasy.

[pantsonfire]

116. What are democrats?

They seem to be pretty closed-minded in NYC.

[bravenak]

127. The people who maintain the structures to win elections and keep the repubs from owing my womb

[geek tragedy]

117. Chuck Schumer has no authority of NY state primary rules.

You'd think the brain surgeons pushing this would at least figure out that Andrew Cuomo is the one they'd want to direct this to.

[pantsonfire]

123. I'm sure there's a letter to him as well...

[geek tragedy]

125. such concerns should have been made years ago.

far too little, far too late now.

the rules won't be changed at the last minute in order to give Bernie a boost.

[Agnosticsherbet]

135. Actually, it would be Cesar A. Perales, New York Secretary of State and the State Assembly

and Senate.

We should have a petition requiring all states to teach a semester of Government.

[MADem]

126. Hell, no--I don't want a bunch of Libertarians, Greens and Communists picking the

Democratic -- that is D-E-M-O-C-R-A-T-I-C -- nominee.

I won't sign any petition, and asking a DEMOCRAT to do so is just flat out absurd.

If people want to pick the D-E-M-O-C-R-A-T-I-C nominee, they can join the D-E-M-O-C-R-A-T-I-C Party.

[upaloopa]

128. No! let Dems pic our nominee!

[yellerpup]

129. Done.

Let's see what the people say.

[Agnosticsherbet]

133. People need to address that petition to Cesar A. Perales, New York Secretary of State

Chuck Schumer, as a US Senator, has diddly-squat to do with how New York runs its primary. The individual states run elections and set those rules.

I a not even sure that S.O.S Perales could do that. It would probably need the New York State Assembly to pass a bill.

[BernieforPres2016]

134. Schumer is a war monger and in the pockets of Wall Street

He endorsed fellow war monger and good friend of Wall Street Hillary Clinton. Voters classified as independent go for Bernie by a huge margin. Schumer will pay attention to that petition when hell freezes over.

[oberliner]

136. No thanks

Democrats should vote in the Democratic primary.

[KitSileya]

139. Why don't you let Texans vote for the NY legislature while you're at it.

After all, letting people registered to other parties decide who will be the Democratic Nominee makes as much sense as letting people who don't live in NY decide who the NY governor should be.

Note that people who are not registered to another party can register this week, I believe. The 6-month rule is for Rs, Is, Gs etc.

[pantsonfire]

140. That line of logic is slippery...

I've seen it used in nefarious ways like, "if we grant gay people the right the marry, then people will start marrying animals!"

[KitSileya]

141. Wow. You went there.

Wow.

Comparing giving people the right to vote in states they don't live in and parties they don't belong to with equal marriage is...well...it's something.

Hey, does that mean that we can never use an analogy ever again? If we do, our opponents can use you marry animals analogy.

[pantsonfire]

142. Illogical. You physically jumped from Texas to NY...

So, I illogically brought up the ridiculous homophobic attack RW nut-jobs used to use against gay marriage.

[KitSileya]

143. I could have used a different state. But the analogy stays the same.

You want people who don't belong to have the same say as those who belong - be it in the party or the state. You claim that is more democratic. Would you open up all elections like that or just the primaries? Are you a member of another organization where they have qualifications to vote - you must pay dues or be a member? Would you be fine with opening up every vote there to everyone? let's let everyone vote for Homecoming queen and king, not just the students at that school. Let's let everyone in NYC vote for who should be treasurer of the Augusta library association. For that matter, let's let everyone in NY vote on who should lead the NY state chapter of the Rotary club.

[pantsonfire]

152. Well there's only one President of the United States at any given time.

[KitSileya]

159. Yeah, and not everyone gets to vote for her.

Instead of insisting Independents, Greens and Republicans get to decide who the Democratic nominee should be, I think it is far more egregious that huge groups of American citizens don't get to vote for the President because of where they live. Live in Norway, you get to vote. Live in Puerto Rico, D. C., or other unincorporated territories in the U.S., and you are disenfranchised at the national level.

[DemocratSinceBirth]

146. Why don't we petition Skinner to change the name of this site to Independent Underground

Why don't we petition Skinner to change the name of this site to Independent Underground and let voters of every ideological stripe post here?

Makes as much sense.

[pantsonfire]

148. Good idea....

really...the democratic party needs to grow, and self-identified independents make up more and more of Americans everyday. You think the petition has a shot?

[DemocratSinceBirth]

150. Posters at DU hate Discussionist and few venture there...

I doubt they want DU to become Discussionist.

[Phlem]

157. Both parties depend on the Independent vote so why not?

I thought we were the big tent.

Not so much when Hillary is running?

[DemocratSinceBirth]

160. Why have parties at all if anybody can nominate their leaders?

Why can't I vote for the senator from every state and representative from every district?

Their decisions affect my life.

Why have elected officials at all?

Why have a Constitution?


The law can be what 50.0000000000000000000000000000009 of the people think it is on any given day.

[Phlem]

164. Why have a vote?

When the establishment is going to install who they want, why does voting matter?

We install leaders in other countries why is it so hard to believe they wouldn't do it here?

"Their decisions affect my life." That's so Hillary.

"When I win" as opposed to "when we win."

And here I was voting for Bernie because I care for friends, neighbors, and family, not just myself.

Worried that the ignorant rule the country? You don't say.

[DemocratSinceBirth]

165. Let me give you a hint that might help your candidate's campaign

And here I was voting for Bernie because I care for friends, neighbors, and family, not just myself.

It is this intellectual and moral arrogance that has prevented the Vermont independent from broadening his base beyond his already convinced devotees.

[Phlem]

167. "It is this intellectual and moral arrogance that...

....has prevented the Vermont independent from broadening his base beyond his already convinced devotees."

Really caring for others is intellectually morally arrogant?

Well fuck me, I'm intellectually and morally arrogant. Glad my girl will grow up right.

[DemocratSinceBirth]

168. Thinking you care about other people

Thinking you care about other people and other people don't because they deign to support another candidate is the epitome of intellectual and moral arrogance. What part of that don't you understand?

[Phlem]

169. Dude, you said it, I didn't.

WTF!

[DemocratSinceBirth]

170. Dude...

And here I was voting for Bernie because I care for And here I was voting for Bernie because I care for friends, neighbors, and family, not just myself. (sic) not just myself.

The assertion embodied in your premise is that voters who vote differently than you do not care for their "friends, neighbors, and family", all the obscurantism in the world notwithstanding.

[Phlem]

171. Uh no.

Differently is *different* than voting a certain way, not equal to your assertion that "anyone who vote differently than you do not care for their "friends, neighbors, and family". I don't vote out of fear. I actually am past the race. It doesn't matter to me anymore "who" wins because in the end it's not about winning. It's about a new movement.

I see the Thirdway as an equal to the GOP economically. Result, the middle class is disappearing while money flows to the top.

Sure they'll throw you a socialist bone to remind you they're the good guys, but, the money still flows to the top.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/New_Democrats

New Democrats, also called Centrist Democrats, Clinton Democrats or Moderate Democrats, is an ideologically centrist faction within the Democratic Party that emerged after the victory of Republican George H. W. Bush in the 1988 presidential election. They are an economically conservative and "Third Way" faction which dominated the party for around 20 years starting in the late 1980s after the US populace turned much further to the political right. They are represented by organizations such as the New Democrat Network and the New Democrat Coalition.

And where have the gains gone since the supposed "Economic Recovery"? Think Hard!

http://www.politifact.com/truth-o-meter/statements/2015/apr/19/bernie-s/bernie-sanders-says-99-percent-new-income-going-to/

So no.

I need an economic break since my job has been outsourced and will never return. It wasn't cheap putting myself through college for it either. When you take jobs, money, and opportunity away, from American families, you're no better than the GOP.

I don't know how to make it any simpler.

[DemocratSinceBirth]

172. Respectfully...

People who vote differently than you vote differently from you for a host or reasons, some noble and some ignoble, and the fact you continue to argue their reasons are invariably the latter, is why I suggested you were morally and intellectually arrogant from the jump.

[Phlem]

173. Respectfully, I have never not once said

anyone who votes differently from are me are "ignoble?" as you say. I very clearly said "I don't vote out of fear". Fear is neither noble nor ignoble. Stop putting words in my mouth.

I have PTSD from long term early childhood abuse. I know fear. I also ended that abuse @ 16 myself. I have been different ever since, you want to label that morally or intellectually arrogant, so be it. I could give a shit.

I'm still not voting for Hillary for the previously stated reasons.

[DemocratSinceBirth]

176. I am not saying you are intellectually or morally ignorant because you have PTSD.

Whomever hurt you should answer for it in this world or the next.

My point is simple... Voting for Hillary doesn't mean somebody is a bad or ill informed person and suggesting the person is assumes a fair amount of moral and intellectual arrogance...

My pops had a ninth grade education...I was fourteen years old when he died at fifty eight...He left my mom and I with a 700 square foot shotgun shack and a ton of debt. Through hard work as a bouncer, fitness instructor, and lifeguard I put myself through college and grad school...

I support a different candidate. I am not an ill informed or selfish person.

[Phlem]

189. listen, this "Their decisions affect my life." is what I was

responding to, because that's exactly what's happening to other people.

And now you're telling me this:

"People who vote differently than you vote differently from you for a host or reasons"

So which is it? Who's decisions? I'm guessing you mean other than Hillary voters?

"Their decisions affect my life."

and at the same time telling me that:

"People who vote differently than you vote differently from you for a host or reasons, some noble and some ignoble, and the fact you continue to argue their reasons are invariably the latter"

Sounds like you're concerned that other people, "Independents" who vote differently than you affect your life.

"Their decisions affect my life."

and at the same time telling me it's ok?

"People who vote differently than you vote differently from you for a host or reasons, some noble and some ignoble, and the fact you continue to argue their reasons are invariably the latter"

So my voting Bernie is ignoble?

your all over the map.

[Pisces]

149. Where was you petition in 2012, 2008?? These rule changes can't occur during an election.

Why do people act as if rules are new to help Clinton. These rules should have been known to the campaigns from the
beginning. They should have been getting this info out to supporters. Bernie sends me at least 3 or 4 emails a day. Why
didn't one inform me about switching from Independent to Democrat in order to vote? Or ask me to vote early???
Voting started 1 month before yesterday.

[rbrnmw]

162. Jeff Weaver and Tad Devine

should been on this stuff since Bernie announced

[Tarc]

202. So changing the rules so they are tailored for your particular candidate is ok?

I thought Sanders was the honor & integrity candidate? Or did that already go out the window when he started making overtures to the suyperdelegates?

[rbrnmw]

206. I meant they should have been telling his supporters the rules

in various states, that was their responsibility

[giftedgirl77]

207. I'm going to say knowing your election laws would

be a key component of any campaign. Especially when you need to encourage a whole new swath of people to vote for you.

[rbrnmw]

208. I know I've seen better management in Student Counsel Campaigns

what the hell is up with that. I can see Jeff Weaver, but no excuse for Tad Devine he's been at this for decades, he should know how it works by now.

[Phlem]

158. Done.

[Gothmog]

161. If you can win under existing rules, then change them

[KingFlorez]

185. Loserspeak

In fact it's downright ridiculous to call for a change of rules within a month of voting. If Sanders can't win Democrats in a closed primary, then that is his problem. You can't expect the rules to be changed for him because he is losing.

[Solid Snake1]

190. I guess

Bernie supporters are getting nervous about the blowout Clinton win expected in NY. And with that the end of Sanders campaign.

[wysi]

191. Good luck with that!

[w4rma]

195. There is no way Schumer would support this. He's all in for Wall Street.

Secondly, the petition needs to be towards the *state* legislature. They have the power to do this. A U.S. Senator doesn't have that power.

[JI7]

197. feel good activism

[wyldwolf]

204. I can see it now. When Hillary wins under the longstanding existing rules of the NY Dem party...

Bernie followers will claim it was stolen.

[redstateblues]

210. I WANT MY MTV!!!!!

[brooklynite]

213. Has Sanders complained at any point about Closed Primaries?

Why is he so opposed to democracy?

[pantsonfire]

215. I think open primaries are more democratic...

He hasn't complained about them, but they clearly don't help his chances of winning.

[Adrahil]

237. Open primaries are rife for manipulation.

And defeat the purpose of allowing party members to choose their candidate.

If you want to help choose the Democratic candidate, then join the party! Why should an independent get a say in my party's candidate?

[mythology]

224. No

You can't change the rules in the middle just because it would benefit one candidate. If Sanders supporters didn't like the rules, they should have changed them before the race started. Changing them one you realize you're losing is bullshit.

[leftofcool]

226. Nope

[Metric System]

227. You don't get to change the rules once the process has begun. Maybe next time.

[BainsBane]

229. My favorite part of this

is that it petitions a US Senator to change state law.
Can't make this shit up.

[cosmicone]

232. Sometimes jokes just write themselves on DU

[Historic NY]

239. Shouldn't you be petitioning the Assembly & Senate of NY State...

of course if you knew the long history of voting fuckery in NY, you'd know why they have tight rules. Republicans playing Democrats and vice-a-versa, and then third parties and fusion parties.....its designed to prevent last minute shenanigans, like open primaries produce. I laugh at your petition what about the Republicans where is your petition to them. Bone up on NY electoral politics. Every election someone tries to mess with the system. NY has primaries for each party, its expensive and the taxpayers get stuck for the bill, my county pays $250 for the day, even then they can barely get enough poll workers.