If Trump is forced to run third party, I think there's a good chance Bernie will too

[Avalon Sparks]

I checked out the rules today, looks like both candidates have the money and organization already set up, with time to meet the state deadlines. I know he said he wouldn't because he didn't want to split the dem ticket and have another Nadar situation. But if the Repubs split their ticket, I would think all bets would be off.


Depending how it goes from here forward, he could claim he owes it to his supporters, especially those in states that voted for him in wide margins, and his supporters wouldn't hold it agaisnt him I bet. In this crazy election anything can happen, and we've all seen his determination, stamina, and tenacity!

Feel the Bern, part 2!

~Ava~

[NWCorona]

1. Never gonna happen.

[NuclearDem]

2. Fuck spoilers.

[revbones]

53. Spoiling your fun? nt

[Hortensis]

87. Far right or far left barn burners, no difference.

[CaliforniaPeggy]

3. He very clearly said he would not do that. PERIOD. END OF FILE. n/t

[ThePhilosopher04]

42. I'm sure he would change his mind if Trump runs as a third party candidate.

He would almost have to do it.

[CaliforniaPeggy]

44. The Man has integrity. He would not do that.

He would not be a spoiler.

IF Trump runs as a third party candidate, that would hand the election to us.

[BernieforPres2016]

47. Who's us?

Hillary is a Republican as far as I'm concerned.

[CaliforniaPeggy]

50. The Democrats, of course. n/t

[Cal33]

71. I think of Hillary as a half-way Repblican. With her, the Democrats would at least survive --

half dead, perhaps, but still breathing. Where there is life, there is hope.

[VulgarPoet]

93. Much like a jar of dollar store spaghetti sauce with a Ragu label wrapped around it. nt

[FarPoint]

80. That is just not right to say what you did about Hillary....

This is a Democratic Discussion Board dedicated to our Democratic candidates. You can express your opinion in a more respectable fashion if you tried. I'm very disappointed.

[Katashi_itto]

100. Ok, how about...

corrupt corporate shill?

[asuhornets]

86. If Hillary is

a Republican then you are not a Democrat.

[Hortensis]

89. Very revealing statement.

[NorthCarolina]

114. I don't think he will, but if he did he'd continue to get donations from me.

eom

[Hekate]

132. CalPeggy, I welcomed his entrance into the race. But look at the responses you are getting ...

...from BS supporters here. It's beyond distressing. If HRC is the nominee, I expect BS will shake her hand like a gentleman and an adult -- you and I know how the game is played. But how will his DU contingent ever work with the Democratic Party if they believe the things they say about HRC?

Third Party? The GOP is imploding before our eyes, and some on our side want to help them by splitting the Dem Party?

See you in the other side of this madness.

[CorporatistNation]

141. Spoiler for WHO? Hillary? I AM WITH BERNIE NO MATTER WHAT...

AS are MILLIONS who will not accept the "lesser of two evils" ever again! Look at a recent post entitled A nother take on the Bernie or Bust phenomena... The tale is graphically told right there!

[CorporatistNation]

142. Here It Is... The Reasons Why Bernie Trumps Hillary... Click on Post... Verey CLEAR!

http://www.democraticunderground.com/12511586370

[hellofromreddit]

73. That is at odds with his past behavior

He does what he says he will do.

[rurallib]

77. "have to do it" - why oh why would he "have to do it"?

[Hekate]

134. Possibly so that both major parties would be destroyed at once....

Seems to be the dream of some on the extremes of both right and left. Then as if by magic, out of the ensuing chaos and misery, all wrongs would be magically righted. Or something. I hear this kind of imagining from religious apocalyptics as well.

[arcane1]

104. Why? What difference does it make if Trump runs 3rd party?

[TDale313]

4. I really, really don't think he will.

He's said he wouldn't, and I trust he'll keep his word.

[FarPoint]

81. He should channel his goals through a progressive organization like PDA.

If Bernie is serious about making changes, this would be a good, foundation starting point.

[Amimnoch]

97. That and getting the landscape of congress changed.

He has very large name recognition now. If he isn't the nominee I hope he goes activist and gets Democrats who are weak on Democrat issues primaried with Democrats that are more true to causes. Endorsements, campaign assistance, fundraising assistance etc..

[Purveyor]

5. Neither one of them would go there in my opinion. eom

[joshcryer]

8. Trump would. if they stole it.

[morningfog]

9. He would, but is a brokered convention pursuant to rules theft?

[revbones]

54. I think Trump will if he's not the nominee.

I don't think he or his followers will accept anything less. All the talk about stopping him is just fuel for the fire if they actually do.

[HooptieWagon]

6. He can't run in Florida.

There's a law, inspired by Charlie Crist, that you can't lose a party primary and then file a third party run.

[NWCorona]

11. Interesting

[Avalon Sparks]

16. I'm familar with that 'law'

Florida relies on an implicit sore loser law, wherein it is understood as a matter of convention that a candidate who loses in the primary cannot turn around and run in the general election for the same office under a different affiliation (or no affiliation). However, no statute explicitly prohibits party switching.

There is such a law in Texas, but a Dem won't win that state anyway.

~Ava~

[HooptieWagon]

24. I believe there's a one year time span.

[Avalon Sparks]

35. Hooptie, I do not see that year wait requirement.

Eom

[ThePhilosopher04]

41. Wouldn't stand up in federal court.

[Hekate]

133. Has it been tried in federal court? Also, such things can take years, during which time ...

....the election will be over. Also, consider Bush v. Gore and how that was settlec.

[joshcryer]

17. Sore loser loses don't generally apply to presidential runs.

[pat_k]

7. Just don't see it.

He is looking to revitalize the Democratic Party. Running third-party would be counterproductive.

If you haven't seen this interview, check it out:

http://www.democraticunderground.com/12511562983

[Codeine]

10. Bernie wouldn't do that, because he's not a piece of shit.

Trump might, but not Sanders.

And anyone advocating he should can fuck right off.

[cyberswede]

14. +1

[Avalon Sparks]

21. Why do they need to FO?

End

[Codeine]

26. Because advocating for a third party

violates a core tenent of this little virtual community.

[revbones]

55. Well aside from the fact that there is no current 3rd party to advocate for in that scenario

I would think it'd be a bit different if he did and took the core of the party and left the establishment. What then? What if the Democratic party split?

Discussing what if's on an imaginary party that is really a split of the Democratic party isn't really advocating for a completely separate party in any sense is it?

[MoonRiver]

90. Advocating a third party candidate is against DU TOS.

Think about it.

[Avalon Sparks]

107. Hmmmm...I didn't know that

Eom

[Hekate]

136. You signed the TOS when you joined. Maybe you should read it. nt

[Avalon Sparks]

139. I joined in 2001.....and I did.

Eom

[PoliticAverse]

12. Sanders will not be running third party. n/t

[Blue_In_AK]

13. I don't believe he'll do this.

In fact, I would be disappointed in him if he did. Bernie is a man of his word.

[Avalon Sparks]

20. Absolutely he's a man of his word...

And right now behind the scenes there are a bunch of supporters begging him (including a few large workers Union) him to consider. I can totally see a rationale for him to change his mind.

I'm mostly saying that it is doable, legally and feasibly.

~Ava~

[Trenzalore]

15. Most states have some form of sore loser laws

Either you can't run if you ran in the primary or you have to file for the General Election the same day of the primary.

If he decided to do this he wouldn't be on the ballot in the number of states necessary to hit 270.

[Avalon Sparks]

19. Actually there are only 2 states with sore loser laws for Presidential Candidates...

South Dakota and Texas, and Dems nor Trump will likely win Texas anyway, in a 4 way vote. Link confirms my claim:

https://ballotpedia.org/Ballot_access_for_presidential_candidates

[bettyellen]

18. Nope, he actually does not want to help the Republicans. Some of his supporters disagree with him

and with Elizabeth Warren, but whatever.

[Avalon Sparks]

22. How would it help Repubs if they split their ticket?

It would be a 4 way race...

[bettyellen]

28. The Republicans are actually splintered as they have never been before right now w/ Trump

The Dems, not so much. Here I know they believe they are, but it's not playing out that way in the primary so far.
Stupid to do anything but make the Dem party stronger against them.

[SFnomad]

32. It would be a strong possibility that nobody would reach the required 270 electoral vote threshold

Then, according to the Twelfth Amendment, the House of Representatives would select the winner, choosing from the top three electoral vote getters. Each state gets one vote. Do you understand how that helps Republicans now?

[Avalon Sparks]

61. Looks like that is indeed a possible outcome...

Which would put a snag in things, the last thing we need to do is give away our votes to the Congress of Corruption....

Thanks for alerting about that possibility!

~Ava~

[Warren DeMontague]

23. Sanders is not Ralph Nader.

Not gonna happen.

[nadinbrzezinski]

25. AH Trump will win the nom

there will be no brokered convention (as much as I would like to see one)... and Bernie will not run third party either.

[VulgarPoet]

94. And then Trump wins. Thanks, DNC.

[nadinbrzezinski]

105. I tend to agree that Hillary is very weak

But due to the nature of this year I expect Bernie to just be slightly better. It has to do with trump. And trust me, I fear a trump presidency. I know people don't want to hear it. But it is what it is.

[Hekate]

137. Wrong

[HERVEPA]

27. You really know nothing about Bernie, do you. That's just stupid.

[Jitter65]

29. Maybe they should run together on a third party ticket. Call their party.....???

You name it, I can't.

[sturnz0r]

128. I know

Egalitarian, eagle as the symbol

Eagles always beat donkeys and elephants

[sadoldgirl]

30. Not going to happen.

Bernie is a man of principles and his word.

However,he may not want to advocate too
much for HRC, because it is his aim to bring
the party back to its FDR,JFK,LBJ roots, and doing so by
encouraging his supporters to do so effectively.

He will give some support to HRC, if she is the nominee,
but his deepest interests go way beyond that.

[jwirr]

31. I don't know Bernie is pretty good at keeping his word when

he promises something.

That would be interesting though. Trump would pull votes from the Rs. Bernie would still have all of us and we would be fighting the primary all over again.

[Tarc]

33. Unlike some of his supporters, Sanders has integrity and would not hamstring the party

He sees the bigger picture and knows what is at stake in the future is more important than hurt feelings.

[w4rma]

34. Unlike Clinton who was implying some sort of support for Bloomberg. (nt)

[Tarc]

36. Which never actually happened, but, whatever ya need to tell yourself.

[ThePhilosopher04]

39. If he sees an avenue to win, I doubt he would give a rats ass about hamstringing "the party."

Hillary would do the same thing.

[Tarc]

43. Neither would leave the party in a vain (no 3rd party is going to take the presidency) effort to win

[Hekate]

138. What an incredibly ignorant statement. HRC has been a Dem working for Dem causes since 18 y.o....

Which means she's been a Dem for almost 50 years. Bernie has been a Dem for about 15 minutes -- at least in name only, and because he figured he could USE an infrastructure he had no part in building.

Whoopty-do. Hillary isn't leaving the Party she helped build. Bernie will be gone the day after the election to resume his role as Senate gadfly.

[Avalon Sparks]

108. Hurt feelings?

Your comment doesn't make sense to me. People support the candidate they believe will bring forth a brighter future, what dose that have to do with "hurt feelings"? This isn't a popularity contest.

~Ava~

[ThePhilosopher04]

37. Actually I think he would win a 4 person race. I hope he does for the sake of the country.

[revbones]

56. I wouldn't ever see him become the 3rd party

But if there was already 3, I would think he'd have to at least consider it.

[SheilaT]

38. Bernie Sanders will not make a third party run.

These threads are getting every bit as tiresome as the loyalty oath ones.

[ThePhilosopher04]

40. Maybe not a "third party" run but a "fourth party" is a very good possibility.

[Avalon Sparks]

46. Thanks Philospher!

[SheilaT]

65. Then let me make myself perfectly clear:

If Bernie Sanders does not get the Democratic nomination, he will not make any kind of independent run. Got that?

[Avalon Sparks]

45. Well, I guess the opinion he is he likely will not

It's all pretty interesting though, and feasible. I think the two party system is how we got to this point and why were losing ground economically.

What's the point of the two party system? The main point is to keep third parties out, while the two parties continue to switch parts in the Punch-and-Judy show brought to us by Their mega million dollar backers.

[mikehiggins]

48. Not Sanders

Almost anyone else in his shoes might consider a scenario like that but not Sanders. One of his strong suits is the old Popeye slogan, I yam what I yam cause I yam what I yam...

He gave his word not to run as a third party candidate. End of story.

[baldguy]

49. Like going to the ego-fueled Full Nader is the best way to "rebuild the Democratic Party".

That's just what he should do - if he wants to make himself even more irrelevant than he already is.

[revbones]

57. Sure blame Nader. That's good. nt

[Hekate]

140. You mean old Ralph "There's not a dime's worth of difference between the parties" Nader?

Good old Ralphie. How'd that work out for us in 2000?

[upaloopa]

51. So then he really doesn't mean all those things he says

He has no credibility you are saying

[Avalon Sparks]

59. Where did you get that info?

This link below suggests filings are by state and aside from Texas (which no Dem is likely gonna win anyway) the earliest deadline is in North Carolina in mid June, majority of other states are in July and August, with a few in September. Here's the link, do you have contradicting information?

https://ballotpedia.org/Ballot_access_for_presidential_candidates

I don't see any filing deadlines as early as March.

~Ava~

[Kip Humphrey]

67. Thanks Ava. I see Texas is now May 9th. My bad.

[DrDan]

78. nor do write-in campaigns

[Ken Burch]

58. Bernie has made it clear he wouldn't do that.

If you support Bernie, please don't do anything to encourage the hosts of this site to suppress pro-Sanders posts while the primaries are still going on.

[Avalon Sparks]

62. Since when are Dems for suppressing speculation?

Has that really been happening on DU?

[LanternWaste]

91. I'm guessing you think yours speculation rather than faith-based prophecy, yes?

I'm guessing you think yours speculation rather than faith-based prophecy, yes?

[Avalon Sparks]

109. What?

Please clarify?

[ibegurpard]

60. He should but he won't

[WheelWalker]

63. I think not. A hung election (a likely outcome in that event) would go to the US House

of Representatives. A huge faceplant probable.

[gordyfl]

64. I Think If Bernie Ran as a Third Party Indepndent

Hillary would turn out to be the spoiler.

Bernie has plenty of experience running, and winning as an Independent. Current polls show him doing better than Hillary in General Election.

Yes, Hillary would be the spoiler.

Bernie would be able to raise more money than Nader ever dreamed of.

[BreakfastClub]

66. That would be despicable of him. First he pretends to be a democrat to get

"exposure" and then when he doesn't win the nom, he goes independent and runs against the party he just used to get said exposure! I hope he's not that big of a jerk.

[NCTraveler]

68. The Bernster isn't an idiot.

Like EW running for President, some will dream about these things no matter what the person themselves has said.

[sofa king]

69. Don't follow the line of reasoning.

Nothing Bernie Sanders has said or done to this point suggests that this is a profit-driven vanity run, as it is for Trump and Cruz (and Carson, Christie, Bush, Fiorina...). He's been pretty consistent with his statements and has already acknowledged that win or lose he will support the Democratic nominee.

Furthermore, as a Member of Congress, (one who actually reads and understands the Constitution unlike the GOP Senators who have disgraced this campaign), Sanders knows full well that by taking electoral votes away from Hillary Clinton he would dramatically increase the chances of a contested election, where the Republican House can simply not vote for anyone and coronate Paul Ryan.

We can conclude the exact same for Mrs. Clinton, with even more certainty, because she already did this in 2008, accepting defeat and becoming a powerful ally of Senator Obama's general election campaign.

We are blessed with two candidates of high integrity, while the GOP has none, and if the guesses we draw do not presuppose this they are sure to be incorrect.

[pampango]

70. I doubt he will. By the end of the convention the filing deadline would be past in 14 states;

just a few days away (Aug. 1 or 2) in 12 other states and just 2 weeks away (Aug 10-12) in 8 other states.

Filing deadlines and signature requirements by state

The republican convention is the week before ours so Bernie would know before our convention what Trump is or is not going to do, but he would not have much time to file to be on the ballot in many states. I suppose Bernie could begin collecting signatures for an independent run while the primaries are still going on (that seems inconceivable to me) or after the last primary in June depending on how things look at that point, but to begin collecting signatures before the convention would certainly put an 'interesting' spin on the convention.

[gordyfl]

84. I Read That On Another Website

but the poster didn't provide a link.

I'm glad you cleared that up by providing a link.

[Avalon Sparks]

110. Yup that wouldn't be too cool to start getting signatures before the convention

I doubt he'd do that either.

~Ava~

[Orsino]

72. Nope. Sanders'word is good, as far as I can tell.

If Trump is squeezed out of the nomination, he will of course threaten a third-party run. Like he threatens to sue, and like he claims never to settle.

[gollygee]

74. I certainly hope not

He doesn't owe it to his supporters to jeopardize the SCOTUS.

[Vinca]

75. Bernie won't.

He's not a narcissist like Trump. That's why he's running as a Democrat and not an Independent. He doesn't want to be blamed for splitting the Democratic vote and enabling a batshit crazy person to become president.

[DrDan]

76. I doubt it - he can not beat Hillary during the primaries, why would he think

anything would be different.

It is a FAR different scenario than trumps.

[Lone_Wolf]

79. I think he would if...

The party leaders did not make concessions he wanted on the party platform:

Medicare for all
$15/hr Min wage
Strong stance on climate change
Free tuition at public universities and colleges.
Tax on Wall Street speculation

[stone space]

82. Bernie had the opportunity to do that, and chose not to.

I think folks who really want to see a 3rd party run on the left in 2016 will have to find another candidate.

But hurry up.

Time is getting short.

[djean111]

83. I find it kind of fucking hilarious that supporters of a candidate who lies and changes positions

with pandering ease are all invoking the "Bernie is a man of his word" incantation.

[kristopher]

99. Exactly what I was thinking.

I was also thinking about the obligation one has to live up to a word given on the assumption of fair play by all. That is a key element of Bernie's ethical dilemma that Camp Clinton is, literally, blind to.

[rock]

85. Nope

Trump = Asshole
Bernie = Not an Asshole

Only Trump would attempt a run 3rd party.

[pdsimdars]

88. There will be no need for Bernie to run as an independent, he will be the Democratic nominee.

[EdwardBernays]

92. I'd say the inverse is also true

If Bernie were to run third party a third party GOP establishment candidate would also run... and in that scenario Bernie wins easily...

[Chan790]

95. Shouldn't. It's a terrible idea.

It would basically insure that the election gets kicked to Congress and because we have only a narrow chance of taking back the House, that means you're handing the Presidency to the GOP nominee who likely finishes 3rd or 4th in the popular vote. If Democrats retake the House, then you're giving the Presidency to Clinton anyways...there is no path in a 4-way race for Sanders to the Presidency because there is no possibility of a direct EC win of 270EC votes; there is no path for Trump either in a 4-way race...his only chance in a 3-way race is to either take safe Democratic states or to sweep the toss-ups while shutting-out the GOP nominee.

No, the correct tack for Sanders if Trump goes 3rd-party and Hillary wins the nomination is to garner concessions from Clinton. She can't win the Presidency without his support and him not running an independent race. He literally holds control of who gets the Presidency...and we all know it'll be Clinton in that case but he can hold it hostage to his demands in the meanwhile...demanding to name her T Sec. Labor Sec. and policy concessions, for example...or the next DNC chair...or pretty much whatever he wants that it is in her power to give him.

[workinclasszero]

96. If Bernie goes third party he breaks his word

again.

[yellowcanine]

98. Bernie will not do that. He gave his word. And he is not Trump.

To even make the comparison is offensive.

[giftedgirl77]

101. Lol, trump & sanders would wrap this shit up nicely.

[Tierra_y_Libertad]

102. If he does, I'd happily vote for the most progressive candidate on the ballot.

Which is what I intend to do anyway.

[still_one]

103. So are you calling Bernie a liar? Because that is what your OP is effectively saying. Do you also

have any understanding of what a third party candidacy would do? It would most likely send the election to the republican house where the republican house would select the republican nominee for president.

Bernie understands this. Unfortunately, it is sad that the OP doesn't

[Avalon Sparks]

111. Yes, how unfortunate for me that I don't know everything...

I posted this to see what people here thought, someone posted long before you about the vote going to the house because no one would get 270 in a 4 way run. I thanked them for the I site and agreed.

How unfortunate for you that you wasted your breath/time responding.

But hey, thanks for playing...

~Ava~

[still_one]

115. That wasn't my main point. My main point was you were essentially calling Bernie a liar

and no, I didn't read every single response to your thread.

I was responding to the OP you presented

[Avalon Sparks]

116. Oh, my bad...

how unfortunate for me to have missed "your point"

[still_one]

123. come on, let's just both mellow out. Have a nice evening

[Avalon Sparks]

124. Cheers!

[still_one]

125. Thanks, sorry that my previous post appeared rude

[Avalon Sparks]

131. No problem 😌

We're all a little riled up these days - Peace!

[WhiteTara]

106. That would make him the biggest liar on the planet

because he stated he wouldn't do anything like that.

[djean111]

129. Oh, he would not be the biggest liar on the planet. Or in politics. Or in the Democratic Party.

Or of the candidates.

[bigtree]

112. the new Nader?

...what a complete sham that would be, after telling voters he's committed to running as a Democrat and determined to not be a 'spoiler.'

[Avalon Sparks]

117. Don't really see a correlation ...

Nadar did not run as a Dem in the primary, and during Nadar's run the GOP did not run on a split.

just sayin...

~Ava~

[Left2Tackle]

113. I hope they do.

Time to split this 2 party train wreck wide open.

[Avalon Sparks]

119. Looks like that's not possible...

It's likely that with 4 candidates no one would likely get the 270 votes and then congress picks the winner.

The point of the two-party system apparently is to prevent a viable 3rd party winner.

Wonder who benefits the most from that?

[runaway hero]

118. not a good idea

trump i think could win in a 4 way.

[Avalon Sparks]

120. And I'm sure he has won in a 4-way before...

And least in his younger years....haha

~Ava~

[runaway hero]

121. Great one

very true! After he gets all the women lol

[LWolf]

122. Nope.

Sanders will not be running as a 3rd party candidate.

[Depaysement]

126. The chances are zero

Check the rules again.

[Mister Ed]

127. He has said from the outset that he won't run third party. I believe him. n/t

[strategery blunder]

130. This would end up throwing the election into the House

You do realize how the House would vote in that kind of 4-way split, don't you?

We'd end up with the most kkkonservative kkklown who had run (not gonna try to predict who would emerge from an R brokered convention).

Dear God no.

Bernie is smarter than that. And yes, I'm caucusing for Bernie in little more than 24 hours.

[Hekate]

135. How is Trump "forced" to do any such thing? Only his yuuuuge ego keeps him from...

....simply accepting that in any electoral race everybody gets winnowed out in the process except one person. He can choose to do what he wants to do (create chaos and dominate) but nobody is "forcing" him to do anything.

And if I understand you correctly, you are hoping that if the GOP splits apart, the Dems should do the same. What exactly would that accomplish in your mind?

Right now the Democrats are behaving like the only adults in the room, having substantive debates, airing actual policy differences, providing plans for the future. Both our candidates look good by comparison to the GIP candidates, who look like spoiled children and madmen.

[Arkana]

143. Except he's already said he won't, because he doesn't want to be responsible for electing

a Republican.

Especially if that Republican is Donald fucking Trump.

[srobert]

144. Bernie Will Abide by His Word

He said he will not run as a spoiler. He's a man of his word and it's not going to happen. This is one of the differences between Bernie and Hillary. She will change her position on a host of issues after (if) she becomes President. I'm anticipating, for example, that the TPP will be passed if Hillary is elected, though it will likely go by a different name. My evidence: She ran against CAFTA, then endorsed it as secretary of state. But then these are reasons I'm voting for Bernie in the first place.

[LostOne4Ever]

145. ...