I love the Democratic Party, even the 'Establishment'

[bravenak]

The party and the Establishment Democrats are all that stands between people who look like me, and the Republican party that would own my womb and put me back in chains. So, this thing this primary season where folks want to take down the Establishment and call for Bernie or Bust movements if Bernie does not win is deplorable to my eyes.

The people who will be hurt the most by taking down the 'establishment' are not the people who are so interested in Bernie or Bust. Some are, but most of us will vote for the party nominee- the chance of getting Trump is just too deadly and dangerous for those of us who have not the privilege in this nation to ever make these types of demands.

So, let's cut out the Bernie or else stuff and think about the fact that our real enemies are on the Right. Allowing them to take over just harms us marginalized people and it is horrible to allow us to come to more harm if people do not get the candidate they want. And please stop using Trump as a threat to get us away from Hillary. That is unfair to do to those of us who are already suffering.

And btw? The South does count. That is where many of us black voters have an ACTUAL say over who wins the contests. Not fair to marginalize us further.

[stevenleser]

1. Yep. Well said. nt

[bravenak]

2. Thank you, Steve.nt

[Jitter65]

3. Thank you bravenak. You are truly brave. nt

[bravenak]

9. Hey

[wildeyed]

4. I am mighty fond of my IUD.

TMI? Well there it is. And access to good birth control is one of the things the GOP really wants to take away from us. That alone is enough reason to love The Establishment when it includes Planned Parenthood and NARAL.

And yeah, I live in the South. We are fighting hard here, and I do not appreciate it when my blue state brethren attempt to marginalize those efforts. I find it incredibly disloyal. They sit so pretty and pure in their white liberal havens. They should come down south to see what a real fight is like.

[sheshe2]

6. Aaaaaah~

[bravenak]

8. I am very fond of my iud too!!

The South is the bith place of the civil rights movement. People need to remember the struggle and stop telling us that those votes are not important.

You are right. What they are doing is dead wrong.

[Iliyah]

5. I am a proud member of the Democratic Party and as a liberal/progressive

I'm also very proud to be voting for HRC.

My family came to California by way of Louisiana, Mississippi, Texas, Oklahoma. I still have family there.

I read a lot of history. One quote I like a whole lot "Power to the People". That quote reminds me of the Democratic Party and HRC.

"People", which means ALL OF US.

[bravenak]

10. Me too!! I am proud!!

And I got to cali by way of pennsylvania, kentucky, alabama, etc. Many of us have roots down south and do not look down on our brothers and sisters.

[DesertFlower]

28. i'm a proud member of the democratic party

and i voted for hillary. i'm in arizona -- originally from NY.

[sheshe2]

7. Dayum girlfriend.

You are fearless.

I love you~

[bravenak]

11. Love you too!!

[Chitown Kev]

12. Besides

Historically, what happens when "The Establishment" is overturned is that it's replaced with another "Establishment"...and that replacement Establishment is quite often worse for "The People" than the Establishment it replaced.

[bravenak]

16. Damn true!!

What would their establishment do to me? I do not want to know...

[NanceGreggs]

13. Well said!!!

[bravenak]

17. Hey Nance!!!

[NanceGreggs]

19. Back at ya!

[tabasco]

14. I love my country,

but not my political party. LOL.

[bravenak]

15. You might not be worried about being out back in chains

[leftofcool]

18. Proud 42 year member of the Democratic Party

[bravenak]

20. That's what I'm talking bout!

[George II]

22. Good for you - 44 years here, and proud of it!

My parents were Democrats even longer - 75 years for my father, a few less for my mother.

I doubt they would appreciate the characterization of the party THEY helped to build that it's getting from interlopers today. They were far from "establishment"!

Great OP, thanks.

[DemonGoddess]

21. K&R!

Thank you!

[riderinthestorm]

23. Climate change is upon us. Hillary offers weak and pathetic proposals. A lie

The Republicans are the same when it comes to climate change.

There are only 2 candidates offering hard, real proposals to climate change instead of "incrementalism" that fucks our planet forever. We're at the 11th hour.

Go on, love the "establishment" into oblivion. In 10 years (less according to most scientists), your "concerns" will amount to nothing as catastrophe begins to escalate.

The rest of us will continue to fight for our future.

[Iliyah]

24. Since earlier than the 20th century.

Both the north and south poles are melting at a rapid rate. Reason, per se, something is warming. Why? The industrial part of the world enjoys comforts. The United States of America is part of that world. Are you willing to give up, and I guess you are.

[riderinthestorm]

25. I'm not giving up. That's why I'm voting for real environmental action

I'm voting for Bernie.

[msanthrope]

50. Actually, one of the greatest environmental concerns out there is the use of animals for sport

and entertainment, prevention of animal cruelty, and humane slaughter. I think the bills she sponsored for animal welfare causes, and her votes speak for themselves. Bernie Sanders has a great record on animal rights, too. But I must say his vote in 2014 for the bill that would allow hunting and trapping on federal lands was a disappointment.

As someone who has participated in the rescue of sport and gaming animals, particularly older animals who are no longer young or healthy enough to be used for sport, (horses, dogs, birds, etc...) I think either candidate would be great on this issue. But Madam President will have the foreign policy experience to push for treaties and trade deals that benefit the environment.

[riderinthestorm]

61. Actually I think that's a pant load. Fracking, CO2 emissions, methane buildup

Rainforest deforestation, habitat destruction and overfishing in the ocean, Groundwater poisoning from strip mining, uranium mining etc etc

Any and all of the above rate higher than the use of animals for sport as a toxic environmental concern.

In fact, your post is almost obscene in your attempt to minimize the real and growing dangers, and it's exactly this deflection to fringe environmental issues that make people run from Hillary and to Jill Stein or Bernie Sanders who offer robust proposals.

In 10 years it won't make one bit of difference that elephants can no longer be used in circuses when the entire state of Oklahoma has no clean water because their aquifer has been destroyed by fracking or the Great Barrier Reef no longer exists.

And people will justifiably excoriate Madame President forever in history for ensuring elephants are no longer used in circus' instead of devoting herself day one to addressing rising CO2 levels because the planet is on its 11th hour.

[msanthrope]

63. Oh, I think the concerns you address are very important, but I also think that using animals for

sport and the general use of animals as resources is an environmental concern. I don't think the treatment of animals is "fringe."

[riderinthestorm]

64. As it relates to climate change, sorry but no.

My entire life's work revolves around the humane treatment of sport animals and I understand their importance intimately.

So I understand the importance of sport and show animals on the scale of climate change concerns but please carry on insisting on prioritizing show animals as a primary climate change concern.

It shows so much.

Really. Carry on.

[nadinbrzezinski]

65. Did I miss it or did I miss industrial farming

like factory farms as a serious concern?



Yup cows are a concern due to the mass of them, and do not get me started on pigs and emerging diseases.

But overall, cows are a larger concern, but no way close to fracking.

[riderinthestorm]

68. + 100000000000. I was posting from my phone in a hurry so I wasn't very thorough

please feel free to add to my list.

Commercial livestock farming is another toxic environmental polluter and rates far higher on the scale of crisis offenders that need immediate attention and remedy than rescuing show animals.

Worthy as that activity is, it in no way compares to fracking for example or the typical CAFO lot.

[nadinbrzezinski]

69. I try to work on educating people

[polly7]

66. Exactly right. I've shown horses in the ring and done barrels and some team-roping

for years, but I rescued PMU babies every fall for nearly 15 years (all that I could afford to, anyway) that were put through auction and to be headed mostly for the meat plants sent on horribly overcrowded trucks for thousands of miles - foals without mothers crunched in with old stallions and mares terrified and being tortured who bit, kicked and lunged on these helpless babies. I trained them and sold them to good, private homes. I've also rescued orphaned lambs about to die, goats, dogs, cats and nearly every other domestic animal I can think of - and even a few wild ones - loving and showing/rescuing animals has nothing to do with the impact of industrialized farming, deforestation for grazing and all those other things you mentioned towards climate change.

[riderinthestorm]

71. Yup. Agreed. I rescue 2 horses off the racetrack annually and re-train them

as riding/service/companion whatever-they-tell-me-they're-best-suited-for in their post racetrack life.

I'm deeply involved in animal rescue and understand the nuances intimately. I find it very disingenuous to compare that (worthy) work to reducing CO2 emissions or stopping fracking as an action that saves the planet.

[polly7]

73. Again, exactly. And good for you ...

I love that these horses can be saved.

[msanthrope]

70. Sorry...but sport and show animals are by their nature used by humans for mere

entertainment. There is no benefit to the animals, and more than not, sport animals end up discarded once they outlive their usefulness. I've seen dogs, horses, birds....all abandoned and abused because human beings believed they had a right to breed and use animals for a purpose as trivial as human entertainment in the first place.

[riderinthestorm]

72. Which is not at all related to actions required to save the planet

I'm grateful for my sisters and brothers who also work in the field of animal rescue and I salute you for your work.

I too am deeply involved in animal rescue but would never compare that with those people working to eradicate fracking (as just one example) which is the kind of direct action the next President must take to save this green earth in her 11th hour.

[DesertFlower]

26. well said. nt

[Cha]

27. Oh Yes!

I the #establishment!

You are so right, bravenak.. the good ol "establishment" like Rep John Lewis, Sen Sherrod Brown, my Senator Maize Hirono and all those who vote for Hillary are the ones who are saving us from the Hell that is clawing on the other side.

They're our Firewall.. just like President Obama is our Firewall now.

[bravenak]

29. Such a thankless job

But they do it. And take the trashing from all sides to do the right thing.

[Cha]

31. Exactly.. the trashing from both sides who don't appreciate a damn thing.

[Meteor Man]

30. Lovin' Rahm and DWS?

Say howdy to The former Senator from MBNA for me! I am fighting the IRS over my hardship exemption to stop them from seizing $125/month from my S.S. benefit.

Ya gotta love a Third Way politician who screws over senior citizens!

[bravenak]

34. Has nothing to do with my op

[Meteor Man]

40. The Establishment

[link:http://talkingpointsmemo.com/cafe/moyers-winship-oped-time-for-wasserman-schultz-emanuel-to-resign|
You can't get any more Establishment Dem than Rahm and DWS. Just ask Bill Moyers:

[link:http://talkingpointsmemo.com/cafe/moyers-winship-oped-time-for-wasserman-schultz-emanuel-to-resign|

[bravenak]

42. Ok

[Meteor Man]

43. Missing link

[link:http://talkingpointsmemo.com/cafe/moyers-winship-oped-time-for-wasserman-schultz-emanuel-to-resign|

[w4rma]

32. Bravenak, the "Jew" hater, is calling someone else racist? You have zero shame, Bravenak.

http://www.democraticunderground.com/?com=view_post&forum=1280&pid=152392

[slipslidingaway]

33. That statement is just so filled with hate, why would anyone read Frontpage Mag let alone ...

comment.

"...I did not know jews hated us blacks so much. Good to know. I will return it in kind. There are so few of them It's a wonder they have the gall to think about being racist against blacks."

There are so few of them ... too bad so many were killed and those that survived have the gall, I some people's minds to think about being racist towards blacks.

Honestly I have little time for anyone that focuses their hate against a religion, race or sexual identity. These hateful posts began on DU well over a year ago and I think they are destructive against all people.

They need to be brought to the attention of people so they can make a decision if they stand with hate or a better world for all.

[AgingAmerican]

57. Yesterday she was threatening to have a DUer physically beat up

She is up to like 9 hidden posts now. 5 in the last few days alone. She has zero self control. Serious NPD issues. Is only a matter of time before she is banned permanently.

[Kelvin Mace]

35. What about all men, women and children

who will die in the next war HRC and the establishment Dems get us into? Do their lives matter?

[bravenak]

36. You are off subject

[Kelvin Mace]

37. No, I am not.

You want me to vote for HRC, a person who endorsed illegally invading a sovereign nation and killing hundreds of thousands, a person who brags of her friendship with a war criminal who has the blood of millions on his hands, in order to protect your life and liberty. But if other people die, that's okay.

Why are you special, but other people, non-white people I might add, "off subject"?

[bravenak]

38. I said many times that I do not care who you vote for

This is my opinion of those who let republicans get the white house.

[Kelvin Mace]

39. And that is my opinion of people who will vote

for anyone, no matter how vile or odious, just because they have a "D" after there name.

[bravenak]

41. Better an Odious D than a purile R

[Kelvin Mace]

46. Whatever helps you sleep nights

[bravenak]

45. SMH

[NorthCarolina]

48. Let me guess, drama major?

eom

[AgingAmerican]

59. NPD

Same difference

[Waiting For Everyman]

49. The Establishment is corrupt and its days are numbered.

The icons have fallen. People have seen behind Oz's curtain and it isn't pretty, and they aren't amused.

The Dem party will have to clean up its act significantly, or it will find itself unable to elect anybody anymore.

Pay to play is not acceptable. Selling our law to lobbyists is not acceptable. It's called treason.

The only reason it hasn't been prosecuted is both sides are doing it. Well then, we will have to elect new people with new values who aren't already sold out before they're elected, and that is just what has begun.

[msanthrope]

51. You know...I look at the Establisment every precinct meeting I go to. Nt

[bravenak]

54. Good people. I am on my way to caucus right now.

See ya!

[Mary Mac]

52. i admire any one who mans the phone banks, pounds the pavement

Drives the voters and registers the voters. Getting the vote out is God's calling.

[KPN]

53. Well I disagree.

You are basically saying Hillary can beat the GOP but Bernie can't (unless you doubt Bernie's commitment to the rights of all people regardless of race, gender, religion, etc.). I am 100% confident you are wrong on that one. I actually think Bernie is a stronger candidate for thew Ds to run.

So how about you cut out the Hillary and the Establishment or else stuff?

[AZ Progressive]

55. Good Cop, Bad Cop. Bad Cop scares the person into trusting the Good Cop

The Good Cop tells the person that they will help them and protect them from the Bad Cop. It is a successful strategy.

[hollysmom]

56. i disagree, I never love stuff

I love people, pets living things.
The party is there to serve the members, I love many democrats, but the party is just a thing.
this means either I take the word love more seriously than most, quite possible the way it is thrown around by a lot, or some people are operating on an lesser valued interpretation.

[Tierra_y_Libertad]

58. please stop using Trump as a threat to get us away from Hillary = please stop using Trump as a

threat to get us away from Bernie.

[ismnotwasm]

60. K&R

[Odin2005]

62. The Establishment Dems are just as much my enemy as the Repugs.

[SMC22307]

67. No you don't.

On Hillary:

It got brought back up during her last campqign because SHE FAILED TO LEARN HER LESSON RIGHT. She lost a primary over her race related spewing.

How he responds to criticism will build trust or not. If he gets why it sucks I will treat it like I treat all the shit Clinton said.
Everybody says shit that comes off bad or even was said exactly how they feel but was incomplete or uninformed.
If he can treat them as separate but connected rather than one size fits all he will do much better, you know I do not love politicians. Except Obama. Maybe Jill Stein. They cool.

On Jill Stein:

I trust none of them except Jill Stein

She really is the only candidate I'd take it to the streets for if she was a Democrat

.

Yes. They are all failures and nobody deserves our votes except Jill Stein in theory

.

Who, exactly, do you think you're fooling? The site owners because you were Flagged for Review yet again?

And please stop using Trump as a threat to get us away from Hillary.

Irony lost on you, eh?

Vote for Hillary in spite of her "race related spewing," everyone!