Welcome to DU! The truly grassroots left-of-center political community where regular people, not algorithms, drive the discussions and set the standards. Join the community: Create a free account Support DU (and get rid of ads!): Become a Star Member Latest Breaking News General Discussion The DU Lounge All Forums Issue Forums Culture Forums Alliance Forums Region Forums Support Forums Help & Search
 

hill2016

(1,772 posts)
Sat Mar 26, 2016, 10:59 PM Mar 2016

Should Clinton pivot to the middle for the GE? She's never going to attract the BernieOrBust'ers.

Instead of wasting her time and energy reaching out to the BernieOrBust supporters, maybe she should write them off and go after the moderates? Those who are grounded in reality and maths, and understand that getting somebody to pay for your free college and health care is NEVER EVER going to happen?

Does she have a path to victory under this scenario?

159 replies = new reply since forum marked as read
Highlight: NoneDon't highlight anything 5 newestHighlight 5 most recent replies
Should Clinton pivot to the middle for the GE? She's never going to attract the BernieOrBust'ers. (Original Post) hill2016 Mar 2016 OP
Moderates support Bernie. n/t Skwmom Mar 2016 #1
No.... daleanime Mar 2016 #2
She should campaign for Bernie in the general. Ed Suspicious Mar 2016 #3
Does the OP mean pivot back to center from the right? ViseGrip Mar 2016 #152
Maybe she should try sticking to some core values? bobbobbins01 Mar 2016 #4
Bernie hill2016 Mar 2016 #24
Sounds like R/W radio every day all day what you are saying? juxtaposed Mar 2016 #65
Nope. She should continue as she is now. Lucinda Mar 2016 #5
I think she needs to stop the left-sounding rhetoric. Still In Wisconsin Mar 2016 #39
If you want a republican candidate, just vote for one. hollysmom Mar 2016 #84
I am a Democrat. Bernie is a socialist. End of story. Still In Wisconsin Mar 2016 #86
Wow, what was FDR a communist? hollysmom Mar 2016 #89
You can take your "end of story" crap and ----- -- ----- --- --- ---'- ----- HERVEPA Mar 2016 #126
He is a Democratic Socialist AgingAmerican Mar 2016 #149
Say What?! KPN Mar 2016 #105
+1k CentralMass Mar 2016 #154
Agree. She is well positioned as a moderate liberal progressive. Hortensis Mar 2016 #129
Pivoting is Hillary's specialty. Oh, and evolving. jalan48 Mar 2016 #6
I think she's going to have to move to the right significantly to win the GE Still In Wisconsin Mar 2016 #7
"running as a liberal is not a winning strategy" marions ghost Mar 2016 #18
yup hill2016 Mar 2016 #20
I would expect, for example, the following: Still In Wisconsin Mar 2016 #27
Do you think those are good things? Avalon Sparks Mar 2016 #45
Lots better than President Trump. Still In Wisconsin Mar 2016 #49
So you think Bernie would first tear up ACA before anything else was voted on and in place? Jackie Wilson Said Mar 2016 #130
You're not very good at this Warren DeMontague Mar 2016 #157
She just needs to finally be herself floriduck Mar 2016 #67
If she does that, she wins. Still In Wisconsin Mar 2016 #87
So I take it you're going to go enlist if she gets the presidency? VulgarPoet Mar 2016 #101
You see that transparency page? Warren DeMontague Mar 2016 #109
Oh, _wow._ VulgarPoet Mar 2016 #110
And I believe in the Loch Ness Monster, Sasquatch, and... Yurovsky Mar 2016 #140
So why didn't Hillary run with her fellow Republicans? k8conant Mar 2016 #35
No way she's get the nom. as a Repub. Look who they're going with! n/t Still In Wisconsin Mar 2016 #36
So you think that she should position herself to the Right of her pal Drumpf? Lorien Mar 2016 #78
No, not to the right of tRump. Still In Wisconsin Mar 2016 #82
You're the first Cartoonist Mar 2016 #102
I wouldn't exactly call that poster a "Hillary supporter... Tanuki Mar 2016 #123
Is this comment real or some kind of satire? /nt Ash_F Mar 2016 #104
She didn't move anything but her LIPS. John Poet Mar 2016 #147
seems like she already is on some issues. Cobalt Violet Mar 2016 #118
On what? Specifics. Issues and policies. Please. Warren DeMontague Mar 2016 #99
Check out post #27 for a start riderinthestorm Mar 2016 #121
What a fascinating individual. Warren DeMontague Mar 2016 #158
Ikr? Things that make you go hmmm riderinthestorm Mar 2016 #159
She has been pivoting to the middle... dchill Mar 2016 #8
Oh yeah--pivoting to the middle would be a left turn for her. panader0 Mar 2016 #17
Yup. Follow that arrow. dchill Mar 2016 #21
And a hard one at that! nt Lorien Mar 2016 #79
I thought that's where she started from. polly7 Mar 2016 #9
This saddens me. Beartracks Mar 2016 #10
it's not doable hill2016 Mar 2016 #22
Why does Rice play Texas? rufus dog Mar 2016 #31
What is so uniquely fucked up about the USA that we can't yodermon Mar 2016 #42
Id like to see a DU Hillary supporter respond to that Avalon Sparks Mar 2016 #70
that's my question . lunasun Mar 2016 #95
I've got your answer Hill2016 Avalon Sparks Mar 2016 #60
It was at least popular here until fucking Hillary was running! Nt Logical Mar 2016 #74
And yet Canada can, so they are just smarter than us? Jackie Wilson Said Mar 2016 #137
Rainbows and unicorns. n/t Still In Wisconsin Mar 2016 #38
Better than TPP and Blackwater Politicalboi Mar 2016 #62
I am pro free trade. Still In Wisconsin Mar 2016 #69
free trade = corporate slavery. hollysmom Mar 2016 #88
Bullshit, it was popular here until hill turned right! Nt Logical Mar 2016 #75
the queen told them no Viva_La_Revolution Mar 2016 #76
That's why Bernie needs to stay in Onlooker Mar 2016 #11
Moderates don't actually exist in any significant numbers. jeff47 Mar 2016 #12
Amen I am an independent who is far left of the Democratic Party... GeorgiaPeanuts Mar 2016 #19
congrats! Viva_La_Revolution Mar 2016 #81
No she should not dflprincess Mar 2016 #13
Moderate what? beedle Mar 2016 #14
I think people are trying to prepare themselves, are trying to start rationalizing this scenario NWCorona Mar 2016 #15
If she goes any further to the Right, she'll declare WW3. Something she can work with the GOP leveymg Mar 2016 #16
She's campaigning now to the left, she'll go back center right once she get's the nomination(if) YOHABLO Mar 2016 #23
No way!! As a Hillary Supporter fun n serious Mar 2016 #25
That would be the kiss of death. Still In Wisconsin Mar 2016 #34
Because it would bring our party together fun n serious Mar 2016 #47
We'd have a SOS who is a moonbat leftist! Still In Wisconsin Mar 2016 #51
Yes. The left sees Hillary as Hawkish fun n serious Mar 2016 #57
Sanders is an American, yes... Still In Wisconsin Mar 2016 #68
I am for Hillary fun n serious Mar 2016 #80
Post removed Post removed Mar 2016 #85
what he attempted to do to her ??? run against her like this is hollysmom Mar 2016 #92
This guy has 11 hidden posts in 3 months, and he's not been banned? forest444 Mar 2016 #143
That's what I ask of Obama All in it together Mar 2016 #156
Bye TROLL. morningfog Mar 2016 #26
If she "pivots to the middle" from where she already is, The Velveteen Ocelot Mar 2016 #28
she won't need to worry because she won't be the nominee Rosa Luxemburg Mar 2016 #29
That's not true at all.. Texasgal Mar 2016 #30
That's a great plan for losing in the general Proud Public Servant Mar 2016 #32
Absolutely, Hill2016. Bread and Circus Mar 2016 #33
I wouldn't like Valley2016 k8conant Mar 2016 #37
That's her problem, she tries to be all things to all people ... ThePhilosopher04 Mar 2016 #40
At this point, does HRC even know what she really stands for? Yurovsky Mar 2016 #142
She pivots left, poaches some Bernie supporters, pivots right and runs in GE, and SDjack Mar 2016 #41
Well, if her middle pivot involves "compromising on abortion" IdaBriggs Mar 2016 #43
The problem, of course, is that if she caters to the left she loses the middle. Still In Wisconsin Mar 2016 #46
Abortion, civil rights, starting wars, tax cuts for the rich - when did this IdaBriggs Mar 2016 #50
You have to look at what is realistic. Still In Wisconsin Mar 2016 #53
I must be missing your sarcasm emoticon. IdaBriggs Mar 2016 #59
there is no middle Viva_La_Revolution Mar 2016 #90
The weathervane says ... GeorgeGist Mar 2016 #44
Yeah, I think that team Hillary should pivot me b zola Mar 2016 #48
Agreed. n/t Still In Wisconsin Mar 2016 #54
You mean move left to try and get the moderates support? n/t brewens Mar 2016 #52
Moderate republicans. H2O Man Mar 2016 #55
What do you mean "should?" HassleCat Mar 2016 #56
sure go for it senseandsensibility Mar 2016 #58
Well, she was in the middle-right to begin with Aerows Mar 2016 #61
Rough day? Teamster Jeff Mar 2016 #63
After attending today's caucus I'd say the Bernie or Busters are a really insignificant minority Yo_Mama_Been_Loggin Mar 2016 #64
If she goes any more to the 'center' she'll be to the right of the GOP Joe the Revelator Mar 2016 #66
Wouldn't that make her MORE liberal? eom. Bad Thoughts Mar 2016 #71
Lol? Middle? Shit I would lost the middle! Nt Logical Mar 2016 #72
She would be betraying malletgirl02 Mar 2016 #73
She would have to shift pretty far to the Left to be a "Centrist" Lorien Mar 2016 #77
With all of her spins and pivots Lorien Mar 2016 #83
No. Quayblue Mar 2016 #91
You kind of crack me up, hill2016. Blue_In_AK Mar 2016 #93
obviously not ibegurpard Mar 2016 #97
I wonder also. DCBob Mar 2016 #125
As do I, and not for the first time. Tanuki Mar 2016 #128
Yes, that poster makes some odd comments for being a Hillary supporter. DCBob Mar 2016 #134
Funny post, thanks for the much needed laugh n/t hibbing Mar 2016 #94
lol ibegurpard Mar 2016 #96
How much further to this imaginary middle do you want her to pivot? Warren DeMontague Mar 2016 #98
Maybe she could try speaking her mind and being honest about how she feels about current issues. ZombieHorde Mar 2016 #100
That would be awesome. Kalidurga Mar 2016 #103
actually it would ibegurpard Mar 2016 #107
If she showed up on my doorstep sopping wet and said she got caught in the rain... Kalidurga Mar 2016 #108
AFAICT she has already pivoted to the General Election. She doesn't attack Bernie... Hekate Mar 2016 #106
She's tried to attack Sanders on several occasions. Gets burned every last time. nt DisgustipatedinCA Mar 2016 #150
The "Independent Moderates" No longer exist. Odin2005 Mar 2016 #111
Pivot to the middle? She's going to turn left? Tierra_y_Libertad Mar 2016 #112
Man if I wanted to ratfuck Hillary by pushing people into the Bernie or Bust camp forjusticethunders Mar 2016 #113
That would be "to the right" and no. Warren Stupidity Mar 2016 #114
DU 2016 is very different than DU 2001 was. Thanks a whole lot for that. DisgustipatedinCA Mar 2016 #115
She is so far to the Right Lone_Wolf Mar 2016 #116
When will you stop spewing right-wing talking points? Cobalt Violet Mar 2016 #117
Thank you for giving us a president trump or cruz. libtodeath Mar 2016 #119
Good point treestar Mar 2016 #120
She should continue to lie about her foreign policy blunders and hawkishness. Vattel Mar 2016 #122
She will swim in the direction of where the pundits tell her to be Sky Masterson Mar 2016 #124
You are doing far more harm, far more, with that math crap. In an attempt to Jackie Wilson Said Mar 2016 #127
#FeelTheBern CountAllVotes Mar 2016 #131
Is "pivot" code for change positions? noamnety Mar 2016 #132
she needs to spread a wide net. i think many Bernie supporters will patsimp Mar 2016 #133
Don't worry. Bernie supporters wouldn't want to lose more political ground in.. dubyadiprecession Mar 2016 #135
Another rightwing Hillary supporter SHRED Mar 2016 #136
Dime a dozen CountAllVotes Mar 2016 #138
It's like someone placed a call to a staffing agency to recruit them. n/t lumberjack_jeff Mar 2016 #146
The middle is far to her left. HooptieWagon Mar 2016 #139
She'll never be the nominee if she keeps losing like this weekend. eom Betty Karlson Mar 2016 #141
Pivot to the middle, from the NEOCON Right? John Poet Mar 2016 #144
Why yes! Yes she should! Take that inevitable hard right turn *right now* Hillary! lumberjack_jeff Mar 2016 #145
2 recs, amazing for you! :-) Logical Mar 2016 #148
She should pivot toward Arkansas and go home. cherokeeprogressive Mar 2016 #151
There's nothing there BeyondGeography Mar 2016 #153
Hillary should run on a platform that she truly believes in thebeautifulstruggle Mar 2016 #155

bobbobbins01

(1,681 posts)
4. Maybe she should try sticking to some core values?
Sat Mar 26, 2016, 11:05 PM
Mar 2016

Just a thought from someone who supports a candidate who has some.

 

Still In Wisconsin

(4,450 posts)
39. I think she needs to stop the left-sounding rhetoric.
Sat Mar 26, 2016, 11:32 PM
Mar 2016

She can guarantee a win if she picks off all the center and center-right voters who fear (justifiably) a Trump presidency.

hollysmom

(5,946 posts)
84. If you want a republican candidate, just vote for one.
Sun Mar 27, 2016, 12:31 AM
Mar 2016

the center is really far right from where it was when I first voted.go any more right and you end up in Barry Goldwater territory.
So the current "center" means cutting social programs to give more money to businesses - Keeping social programs liberal - for now or until the center moves more to the right. and war war war. bid defense budget so they can build more 4 billion dollar gas stations in Afghanistan to only tear it down again.


I guess the repubiicans will finally get what they want another depression and child labor and cheap labor and no birth control ...... seriously if you don't see how far right the democrats have moved, you are not looking.

 

HERVEPA

(6,107 posts)
126. You can take your "end of story" crap and ----- -- ----- --- --- ---'- -----
Sun Mar 27, 2016, 10:35 AM
Mar 2016

You don't get to end stories here.

KPN

(15,670 posts)
105. Say What?!
Sun Mar 27, 2016, 01:39 AM
Mar 2016

This! .... is the problem with Hillary's journey. It's ONLY about winning regardless of what it takes, means or requires. The end justifies, well, just about f"ING anything. Fundamental party/democratic values are just artifacts ... nice but not necessarily relevant to underlying goals -- power, control/authority, Third Way globalism and wealth. Needs, goals, aspirations of the people are simply complications confronted on the journey.

Hortensis

(58,785 posts)
129. Agree. She is well positioned as a moderate liberal progressive.
Sun Mar 27, 2016, 10:39 AM
Mar 2016

Hillary has always been a policy wonk, and she is not going to change. She's running on over two dozen policy proposals dear to her heart that she will finally get a chance to effect from the White House.

 

Still In Wisconsin

(4,450 posts)
7. I think she's going to have to move to the right significantly to win the GE
Sat Mar 26, 2016, 11:06 PM
Mar 2016

If the primary has told us anything it's that running as a liberal is not a winning strategy. The Bernie or bust people are collectively a lost cause.

 

Still In Wisconsin

(4,450 posts)
27. I would expect, for example, the following:
Sat Mar 26, 2016, 11:18 PM
Mar 2016

(1) Renewed support for TPP

(2) More overt support for Israel

(3) a pledge to intervene more directly against Isis

(4) Some form of social security reform

(5) Support for Keystone XL

 

Still In Wisconsin

(4,450 posts)
49. Lots better than President Trump.
Sat Mar 26, 2016, 11:51 PM
Mar 2016

I'd rather have *something* with Hillary than nothing, and die in a nuclear holocaust. She would also keep the ACA, not tear it up in favor of a "plan" that would never pass congress. And it is far, rfar, far past time that we elect a female President. Yes, I think that matters.

Jackie Wilson Said

(4,176 posts)
130. So you think Bernie would first tear up ACA before anything else was voted on and in place?
Sun Mar 27, 2016, 10:39 AM
Mar 2016

Of course he would NEVER EVER do that in a MILLION FUCKING YEARS, please stop this insanity!!!!!!!!

 

floriduck

(2,262 posts)
67. She just needs to finally be herself
Sun Mar 27, 2016, 12:07 AM
Mar 2016

and not bend to polls, focus groups or wind-powered strategies. Stick with aggressive foreign policy, lower or no minimum wage increases, support of industries like big oil, big banks and private prisons, weaken social security, support TPP, back the XL Pipeline and leave the ACA as it is. Then she can strengthen criminal sentences for minor drug offenders and make Debbie Wasserman-Schultz her running mate.

Hillary just needs to be Hillary.

VulgarPoet

(2,872 posts)
101. So I take it you're going to go enlist if she gets the presidency?
Sun Mar 27, 2016, 01:23 AM
Mar 2016

If you want to support chickenhawk policy, by all means. Have at it. You first.

VulgarPoet

(2,872 posts)
110. Oh, _wow._
Sun Mar 27, 2016, 02:14 AM
Mar 2016
Now I have seen it all. Someone who went from hardcore bernie to hardcore clinton in the span of two months.

Lorien

(31,935 posts)
78. So you think that she should position herself to the Right of her pal Drumpf?
Sun Mar 27, 2016, 12:27 AM
Mar 2016

Wow. That's barking insane.

 

Still In Wisconsin

(4,450 posts)
82. No, not to the right of tRump.
Sun Mar 27, 2016, 12:29 AM
Mar 2016

She moved left to neutralize Bernie's momentum early in the process. Now she needs to move back to the center to get the moderates who decide general elections.

Cartoonist

(7,323 posts)
102. You're the first
Sun Mar 27, 2016, 01:25 AM
Mar 2016

I never thought I'd see a Hillary supporter admit that she has no values and will shift positions for political expediency.

 

John Poet

(2,510 posts)
147. She didn't move anything but her LIPS.
Sun Mar 27, 2016, 01:57 PM
Mar 2016

She paid lip-service to some left-issues while hiring Neoconservative godfather Robert Kagen to run her foreign policy....

Warren DeMontague

(80,708 posts)
99. On what? Specifics. Issues and policies. Please.
Sun Mar 27, 2016, 01:14 AM
Mar 2016

I'm curious as to what specific ways you think she's gonna need to move to the right.

 

riderinthestorm

(23,272 posts)
159. Ikr? Things that make you go hmmm
Sun Mar 27, 2016, 04:50 PM
Mar 2016

2 months, 10 hides and a swift evolution from pro-Hillary to rabidly anti-Sanders.



Beartracks

(12,822 posts)
10. This saddens me.
Sat Mar 26, 2016, 11:07 PM
Mar 2016

Remember when single payer or universal healthcare was something everyone here at DU used to think was noble and do-able?

That's just not the case anymore.

=====================

 

hill2016

(1,772 posts)
22. it's not doable
Sat Mar 26, 2016, 11:14 PM
Mar 2016

at the cost that Bernie pretends it is.

How do you
(1) cover more people (the currently uninsured)
(2) without cost sharings (copays, deductibles)
(3) and give everybody $5k back a year???

Avalon Sparks

(2,569 posts)
70. Id like to see a DU Hillary supporter respond to that
Sun Mar 27, 2016, 12:19 AM
Mar 2016

I think either they they want single payer and trust her enough to believe that she supports single care and that she'll do everything she can as President to pass it.

If they don't want single payer, then I'd like for a Hillary supporter to give their opinion why it won't work. I've heard the Repubs arguments already, what would be the Dems reason for not supporting it.

I don't believe that Hillary will put much effort into changing it. because to pass single payer, the insurance companies would go out of business, and the largest insurance companies are making large contributions to her SuperPacs, Clinton Foundation, and also to her personal bank account for
'Speaking fees'. She has accepted this funding openly, it's somewhat transparent.

I don't know the exact total, but I do know it's in the millions. All going to support her...

With all that support why would she vote for anything against her financial supporters best interest? She have to be a jerk to screw them over with her political power?

I mean if someone gave you a million dollars to get elected President, would you vote agaisnt their better interests once you were in my office.

Are they just supporting her on faith that she'll change her mind?

Is she lying to them (her mega money backers) or lying to us? It's either one of the other, hedge your bets.





Avalon Sparks

(2,569 posts)
60. I've got your answer Hill2016
Sat Mar 26, 2016, 11:57 PM
Mar 2016


Here's the link to his Heath care proposal from Bernie's website?

https://berniesanders.com/issues/medicare-for-all/

You'll find all answers there, and also more information.
 

Still In Wisconsin

(4,450 posts)
69. I am pro free trade.
Sun Mar 27, 2016, 12:09 AM
Mar 2016

So was Prresident Bill Clinton. You know, the guy who ran things when we enjoyed eight years of unparalleled prosperity...

Viva_La_Revolution

(28,791 posts)
76. the queen told them no
Sun Mar 27, 2016, 12:23 AM
Mar 2016

Even tho all the other kingdoms have figured it out. I guess they're just smarter than us

 

Onlooker

(5,636 posts)
11. That's why Bernie needs to stay in
Sat Mar 26, 2016, 11:07 PM
Mar 2016

If he leaves now, she'll pivot towards the center and accept greater losses among the Bernie supporters. But, if Bernie stays in and she wants a smooth running, peaceful convention, he'll be able to win some concessions from her and keep her more left. I think he's most concerned with domestic issues, where she's fairly liberal anyway. He'll probably let her be a more traditional liberal with regard to her foreign policy. I think for Hillary to beat Trump, she needs to be to the left of him on TPP. Bernie will make that happen.

jeff47

(26,549 posts)
12. Moderates don't actually exist in any significant numbers.
Sat Mar 26, 2016, 11:07 PM
Mar 2016

Lazy pollsters treat independents as a single group. They aren't.

Polls that bother to actually ask preferences have revealed that there are two large blocs of independent voters. Democratic-leaning independents and Republican-leaning independents.

Both groups will only vote for their "leaning" party, or they will not vote.
Both groups are to the left of their "leaning" party.

But when lazy pollsters treat independents as a single group, they are effectively averaging pseudo-Democrats and pseudo-Republicans. Resulting in the false impression that there is a large "middle of the road" bloc.

Instead, the electorate is two big lumps with a valley in the middle. Aiming for that valley is a bad idea. As shown in 2014, 2012 (compared to 2008), 2010, 2004, 2002 and 2000.

 

GeorgiaPeanuts

(2,353 posts)
19. Amen I am an independent who is far left of the Democratic Party...
Sat Mar 26, 2016, 11:12 PM
Mar 2016

Voted for Sanders in GA and didn't even have to join Democratic Party which was nice. Should be like that in all states, what are Hilldawg supporters afraid of?

(was my first primary vote and potentially national election vote in my life, at 30)

dflprincess

(28,089 posts)
13. No she should not
Sat Mar 26, 2016, 11:08 PM
Mar 2016

Not all Sanders supporters are "Bernie or Bust" but I don't see how she can win if she goes out of her way to alienate all of them.

 

beedle

(1,235 posts)
14. Moderate what?
Sat Mar 26, 2016, 11:08 PM
Mar 2016

If you mean independents that lean the slightest left, they are what we call the independents that vote overwhelmingly for Sanders in Open Primaries.

Maybe she can appeal to moderate CEOs of military weapon manufacturers?

NWCorona

(8,541 posts)
15. I think people are trying to prepare themselves, are trying to start rationalizing this scenario
Sat Mar 26, 2016, 11:10 PM
Mar 2016

Because deep down they know it's gonna happen. The sad thing is that it already happened. Hillary's moving away from Obama. Talking more hawkish.

The question should be . With today's events will Hillary pivot yet back again to the left.

 

YOHABLO

(7,358 posts)
23. She's campaigning now to the left, she'll go back center right once she get's the nomination(if)
Sat Mar 26, 2016, 11:14 PM
Mar 2016

Trump would probably push her to the right. I think the Clinton campaign will be counting on the disgruntled Republicans who are soft on the social issues, and hard on defense and foreign policy. It's already been said by some Republicans that they will consider voting for Clinton if she's up against Trump. (God help us if it's Cruz) Nut cases both of them. Bernistas may stay home on this one, they don't like her.

 

fun n serious

(4,451 posts)
25. No way!! As a Hillary Supporter
Sat Mar 26, 2016, 11:16 PM
Mar 2016

I say she needs to consider a Secretary of State Sanders. Regardless of Bernie or Bust..

 

fun n serious

(4,451 posts)
47. Because it would bring our party together
Sat Mar 26, 2016, 11:49 PM
Mar 2016

Sanders supporters would trust him as SOS... He will have advisers and I personally agree with bi-partisanship RE Israel/Palestine.

 

fun n serious

(4,451 posts)
57. Yes. The left sees Hillary as Hawkish
Sat Mar 26, 2016, 11:55 PM
Mar 2016

Sanders would even that out. He's an American. He would not endanger our country. I rather go more left than more right.

 

Still In Wisconsin

(4,450 posts)
68. Sanders is an American, yes...
Sun Mar 27, 2016, 12:08 AM
Mar 2016

An American who does not support Isreal, wants diplomatic relations with Iran, is against intervention against ISIL, and believes socialism is a realistic goal- and a worthy one- for this country. What would be the point of destroying Sanders and then rewarding him with a Cabinet position?

And if you want to "go more left" why are you for Hillary?

 

fun n serious

(4,451 posts)
80. I am for Hillary
Sun Mar 27, 2016, 12:28 AM
Mar 2016

but she is not my perfect candidate. I am more an Obama Democrat. I am left of Hillary and right of Sanders. I am for a sovereign Palestinian state. It's high time someone stands up to Israel's hard right. Sanders in not against ISIL intervention. Why would I want to destroy Sanders? I don't.

Response to fun n serious (Reply #80)

hollysmom

(5,946 posts)
92. what he attempted to do to her ??? run against her like this is
Sun Mar 27, 2016, 12:39 AM
Mar 2016

a democracy or something? instead of a coronation

forest444

(5,902 posts)
143. This guy has 11 hidden posts in 3 months, and he's not been banned?
Sun Mar 27, 2016, 01:50 PM
Mar 2016
http://www.democraticunderground.com/?com=profile&uid=318752

I've seen people banned over 3 hides or less, even for replies that included no foul language.

All in it together

(275 posts)
156. That's what I ask of Obama
Sun Mar 27, 2016, 02:53 PM
Mar 2016

Why did you pick Hillary for SOS? She plays dirty politics and Obama kept her busy so she'd stop criticizing him. . . Maybe.
Bernie should be president or stay in the Senate, and use his voice to keep pushing for the changes we need.

The Velveteen Ocelot

(115,931 posts)
28. If she "pivots to the middle" from where she already is,
Sat Mar 26, 2016, 11:19 PM
Mar 2016

the GOPers who are dissatisfied with Cruz and Trump might try to draft her for their side. She's close enough to being an "establishment" Republican that one little pivot might be all it takes to get her there.

Texasgal

(17,049 posts)
30. That's not true at all..
Sat Mar 26, 2016, 11:20 PM
Mar 2016

Stop it with the broad brushes!

Jeez o' Peat! Some people have gone off the rails here on DU!

Bernie supporter here, but not a "BernieOrBust" If Hillary gets the nomination ofcourse I will vote for her!

Please, take a step back and stop with this silly rhetoric! UGH.

Proud Public Servant

(2,097 posts)
32. That's a great plan for losing in the general
Sat Mar 26, 2016, 11:23 PM
Mar 2016

Moderates are a myth. Poll after poll has shown that independent voters lean either reliably right or reliably left, in spite of opting out of the two-party system. The ones who lean reliably left want her to be more like Bernie, not less. The ones who lean reliably right won't vote for her anyway. Tacking to the middle is exactly the kind of inept, triangulating calculation that one has come to expect from DLC types, which is exactly why she shouldn't do it.

Meanwhile, Hillarys biggest problem is that she's perceived to be a craven DC hack who will say or do anything to get elected. Hillary supporters keep saying that's an unfair characterization; yet here you are suggesting it should be her strategy. Which is it?

 

ThePhilosopher04

(1,732 posts)
40. That's her problem, she tries to be all things to all people ...
Sat Mar 26, 2016, 11:33 PM
Mar 2016

and spends too much time catering to certain segments rather than just being who she is. Bernie is popular because he's comfortable in his own skin and stands on what he believes. He's not going to "pivot" towards anybody to get votes. If you're with him, great. If not, go find somebody else to vote for. You know where he stands. That's why he's going to prevail in the end.

Yurovsky

(2,064 posts)
142. At this point, does HRC even know what she really stands for?
Sun Mar 27, 2016, 11:18 AM
Mar 2016

She has spent her whole life just trying to mimic the political flavor of the month.

She's just an empty pantsuit, IMHO.

SDjack

(1,448 posts)
41. She pivots left, poaches some Bernie supporters, pivots right and runs in GE, and
Sat Mar 26, 2016, 11:35 PM
Mar 2016

she wants Bernie supporters to vote for her -- after screwing them out of the nomination. Actually, what she is doing is better described as bait-and-switch. I don't see that as a valid strategy to get our votes. The only way to stop this kind of deceptive politics is not to reward it. Her best bet is run where she is now on the issues.

 

IdaBriggs

(10,559 posts)
43. Well, if her middle pivot involves "compromising on abortion"
Sat Mar 26, 2016, 11:41 PM
Mar 2016

Or reversing civil liberties for our LGBT community, or starting another war, or cutting taxes for the 1% or other nonsense, this Bernie supporter won't even pretend to hold her nose, so be careful just how far into Republican territory you want your candidate to go to "win".

I know she's comfortable saying anything to win - she was a practicing lawyer, so she will always support the people who are giving her money - but please be careful about the bedfellows you pick. She appears to have the support of Bush and Cheney already, and those are some serious fleas.

 

Still In Wisconsin

(4,450 posts)
46. The problem, of course, is that if she caters to the left she loses the middle.
Sat Mar 26, 2016, 11:48 PM
Mar 2016

She needs the middle to win. She does dot need hardcore Bernie nuts.

 

IdaBriggs

(10,559 posts)
50. Abortion, civil rights, starting wars, tax cuts for the rich - when did this
Sat Mar 26, 2016, 11:51 PM
Mar 2016

become "pure Left that Demicratic candidates don't need"? I always thought it was basic core Democratic values.

Oh well. If she's the nominee, I'll switch to Independent. Hopefully it won't be an issue and the point is moot.

Viva_La_Revolution

(28,791 posts)
90. there is no middle
Sun Mar 27, 2016, 12:35 AM
Mar 2016

Why the dems have been losing members for years, this imaginary population. There are righties, lefties, and those who don't follow politics

me b zola

(19,053 posts)
48. Yeah, I think that team Hillary should pivot
Sat Mar 26, 2016, 11:50 PM
Mar 2016

I mean, ya'll got this, right? Go on now. Nothing to fear from Senator Sanders.

 

HassleCat

(6,409 posts)
56. What do you mean "should?"
Sat Mar 26, 2016, 11:55 PM
Mar 2016

She already occupies the middle, and she will tack to the right for the general election. But you are right about the Bernie or Bust people, all 418 of them.

 

Aerows

(39,961 posts)
61. Well, she was in the middle-right to begin with
Sat Mar 26, 2016, 11:57 PM
Mar 2016

then she pivoted to the left while experiencing push back when Bernie made a good showing as an opponent, so it would not shock me where she rolls next.

She is not the candidate that the Democratic party was looking for.

Yo_Mama_Been_Loggin

(108,367 posts)
64. After attending today's caucus I'd say the Bernie or Busters are a really insignificant minority
Sun Mar 27, 2016, 12:04 AM
Mar 2016

The Bernie Sanders supporters I met today were a rather polite bunch even though we disagreed. Everyone in my caucus agreed no matter who won the Democratic nomination we couldn't let Trump win

Maybe it's the anonymity of the internet that brings out the worst in people. It's harder to be rude to someone to their face.

Maybe they're really Republican sock puppets pretending to be Democrats. Or agoraphobic losers living in their parents' basement.

Who ever they are I won't give them too much thought.

malletgirl02

(1,523 posts)
73. She would be betraying
Sun Mar 27, 2016, 12:21 AM
Mar 2016

her supporters who genuinely believe she is a progressive. Even though I disagree with their choice of candidate, they don't deserve to be tricked. Plus it would prove Sanders supporters who say she has no principles right.

Lorien

(31,935 posts)
77. She would have to shift pretty far to the Left to be a "Centrist"
Sun Mar 27, 2016, 12:25 AM
Mar 2016

but keep telling yourself that she's one. Her history and policies prove otherwise.

Quayblue

(1,045 posts)
91. No.
Sun Mar 27, 2016, 12:39 AM
Mar 2016

She should be right where she is. I think both candidates should stay true to who they are and let the people decide.

Then us Democrats work with each other to get our candidate elected.

Warren DeMontague

(80,708 posts)
98. How much further to this imaginary middle do you want her to pivot?
Sun Mar 27, 2016, 01:13 AM
Mar 2016

Please, lets get some specifics on issues.

ZombieHorde

(29,047 posts)
100. Maybe she could try speaking her mind and being honest about how she feels about current issues.
Sun Mar 27, 2016, 01:16 AM
Mar 2016

Would that be a bad thing, in your opinion?

Kalidurga

(14,177 posts)
103. That would be awesome.
Sun Mar 27, 2016, 01:30 AM
Mar 2016

Yeah, give her detractors more ammo to prove she is exactly what people say she is.

Kalidurga

(14,177 posts)
108. If she showed up on my doorstep sopping wet and said she got caught in the rain...
Sun Mar 27, 2016, 01:54 AM
Mar 2016

I'd be looking to see if the garden hose had been recently used.

Hekate

(90,941 posts)
106. AFAICT she has already pivoted to the General Election. She doesn't attack Bernie...
Sun Mar 27, 2016, 01:47 AM
Mar 2016

....she goes after the true threats to out country, Cruz and Trump. She's presenting her record and policies to the whole country at this point.

Odin2005

(53,521 posts)
111. The "Independent Moderates" No longer exist.
Sun Mar 27, 2016, 03:09 AM
Mar 2016

Most Independents today are either very liberal or very conservative. The country is hyper-polarized and there is no middle, anymore.

As usual you Hillary supporters are stuck in the 90s.

 

forjusticethunders

(1,151 posts)
113. Man if I wanted to ratfuck Hillary by pushing people into the Bernie or Bust camp
Sun Mar 27, 2016, 03:25 AM
Mar 2016

this is how I'd do it.

Lone_Wolf

(1,603 posts)
116. She is so far to the Right
Sun Mar 27, 2016, 08:23 AM
Mar 2016

In order for her to pivot to the middle, she would have to move to the left!

Cobalt Violet

(9,905 posts)
117. When will you stop spewing right-wing talking points?
Sun Mar 27, 2016, 08:33 AM
Mar 2016

It's truly disturbing to to come to DU and have to read so many Republican talking points.

 

Vattel

(9,289 posts)
122. She should continue to lie about her foreign policy blunders and hawkishness.
Sun Mar 27, 2016, 09:00 AM
Mar 2016

Trump's one advantage over her is that he seems to be against stupid wars like the invasions of Iraq and Libya.

But I do think if she wins the nomination, then she will trounce Trump in the general. Trump can't beat her or Bernie (unless she is indicted, which seems like a remote possibility).

Sky Masterson

(5,240 posts)
124. She will swim in the direction of where the pundits tell her to be
Sun Mar 27, 2016, 09:20 AM
Mar 2016

The Pundits are usually wrong.
And she will anger a lot of people.
Even those who support her now.

Jackie Wilson Said

(4,176 posts)
127. You are doing far more harm, far more, with that math crap. In an attempt to
Sun Mar 27, 2016, 10:36 AM
Mar 2016

react to the obnoxious and damaging Bernie supporters you have gone too far.

Eventually we have to face the fact that people have a right to healthcare, for instance.

The math says 400 Americans have more than 150 million combined. Very bad situation.

 

noamnety

(20,234 posts)
132. Is "pivot" code for change positions?
Sun Mar 27, 2016, 10:40 AM
Mar 2016

It kind of sounds like you're suggesting your candidate would do or say anything if it helped them get elected.

Maybe you should self-delete this one.

patsimp

(915 posts)
133. she needs to spread a wide net. i think many Bernie supporters will
Sun Mar 27, 2016, 10:42 AM
Mar 2016

go to Hillary (and vice Versa if Bernie wins). But there are some that will not no matter how bad the republicans are.

dubyadiprecession

(5,736 posts)
135. Don't worry. Bernie supporters wouldn't want to lose more political ground in..
Sun Mar 27, 2016, 10:42 AM
Mar 2016

the GE by staying home and letting the GOP elect Trump.

 

SHRED

(28,136 posts)
136. Another rightwing Hillary supporter
Sun Mar 27, 2016, 10:43 AM
Mar 2016

Zzzzzz.....

They are everywhere now it seems.
Their slogan, "NO WE CAN'T".

 

John Poet

(2,510 posts)
144. Pivot to the middle, from the NEOCON Right?
Sun Mar 27, 2016, 01:53 PM
Mar 2016

Yes, she should. Then she should divorce the Bushes and fire her NEOCON advisors,

and finally BECOME a REAL PROGRESSIVE DEMOCRAT!



But, that all seems like much too much to hope for.



 

lumberjack_jeff

(33,224 posts)
145. Why yes! Yes she should! Take that inevitable hard right turn *right now* Hillary!
Sun Mar 27, 2016, 01:53 PM
Mar 2016

We all know it's coming, and it'll be a yuuuuge winner - totally guaranteed!

Latest Discussions»Retired Forums»2016 Postmortem»Should Clinton pivot to t...