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Sat Mar 26, 2016, 10:59 PM

 

Should Clinton pivot to the middle for the GE? She's never going to attract the BernieOrBust'ers.

Instead of wasting her time and energy reaching out to the BernieOrBust supporters, maybe she should write them off and go after the moderates? Those who are grounded in reality and maths, and understand that getting somebody to pay for your free college and health care is NEVER EVER going to happen?

Does she have a path to victory under this scenario?

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Reply Should Clinton pivot to the middle for the GE? She's never going to attract the BernieOrBust'ers. (Original post)
hill2016 Mar 2016 OP
Skwmom Mar 2016 #1
daleanime Mar 2016 #2
Ed Suspicious Mar 2016 #3
ViseGrip Mar 2016 #152
bobbobbins01 Mar 2016 #4
hill2016 Mar 2016 #24
juxtaposed Mar 2016 #65
Lucinda Mar 2016 #5
Still In Wisconsin Mar 2016 #39
hollysmom Mar 2016 #84
Still In Wisconsin Mar 2016 #86
hollysmom Mar 2016 #89
HERVEPA Mar 2016 #126
AgingAmerican Mar 2016 #149
KPN Mar 2016 #105
CentralMass Mar 2016 #154
Hortensis Mar 2016 #129
jalan48 Mar 2016 #6
Still In Wisconsin Mar 2016 #7
marions ghost Mar 2016 #18
hill2016 Mar 2016 #20
Still In Wisconsin Mar 2016 #27
Avalon Sparks Mar 2016 #45
Still In Wisconsin Mar 2016 #49
Jackie Wilson Said Mar 2016 #130
Warren DeMontague Mar 2016 #157
floriduck Mar 2016 #67
Still In Wisconsin Mar 2016 #87
VulgarPoet Mar 2016 #101
Warren DeMontague Mar 2016 #109
VulgarPoet Mar 2016 #110
Yurovsky Mar 2016 #140
k8conant Mar 2016 #35
Still In Wisconsin Mar 2016 #36
Lorien Mar 2016 #78
Still In Wisconsin Mar 2016 #82
Cartoonist Mar 2016 #102
Tanuki Mar 2016 #123
Ash_F Mar 2016 #104
John Poet Mar 2016 #147
Cobalt Violet Mar 2016 #118
Warren DeMontague Mar 2016 #99
riderinthestorm Mar 2016 #121
Warren DeMontague Mar 2016 #158
riderinthestorm Mar 2016 #159
dchill Mar 2016 #8
panader0 Mar 2016 #17
dchill Mar 2016 #21
Lorien Mar 2016 #79
polly7 Mar 2016 #9
Beartracks Mar 2016 #10
hill2016 Mar 2016 #22
rufus dog Mar 2016 #31
yodermon Mar 2016 #42
Avalon Sparks Mar 2016 #70
lunasun Mar 2016 #95
Avalon Sparks Mar 2016 #60
Logical Mar 2016 #74
Jackie Wilson Said Mar 2016 #137
Still In Wisconsin Mar 2016 #38
Politicalboi Mar 2016 #62
Still In Wisconsin Mar 2016 #69
hollysmom Mar 2016 #88
Logical Mar 2016 #75
Viva_La_Revolution Mar 2016 #76
Onlooker Mar 2016 #11
jeff47 Mar 2016 #12
GeorgiaPeanuts Mar 2016 #19
Viva_La_Revolution Mar 2016 #81
dflprincess Mar 2016 #13
beedle Mar 2016 #14
NWCorona Mar 2016 #15
leveymg Mar 2016 #16
YOHABLO Mar 2016 #23
fun n serious Mar 2016 #25
Still In Wisconsin Mar 2016 #34
fun n serious Mar 2016 #47
Still In Wisconsin Mar 2016 #51
fun n serious Mar 2016 #57
Still In Wisconsin Mar 2016 #68
fun n serious Mar 2016 #80
Post removed Mar 2016 #85
hollysmom Mar 2016 #92
forest444 Mar 2016 #143
All in it together Mar 2016 #156
morningfog Mar 2016 #26
The Velveteen Ocelot Mar 2016 #28
Rosa Luxemburg Mar 2016 #29
Texasgal Mar 2016 #30
Proud Public Servant Mar 2016 #32
Bread and Circus Mar 2016 #33
k8conant Mar 2016 #37
ThePhilosopher04 Mar 2016 #40
Yurovsky Mar 2016 #142
SDjack Mar 2016 #41
IdaBriggs Mar 2016 #43
Still In Wisconsin Mar 2016 #46
IdaBriggs Mar 2016 #50
Still In Wisconsin Mar 2016 #53
IdaBriggs Mar 2016 #59
Viva_La_Revolution Mar 2016 #90
GeorgeGist Mar 2016 #44
me b zola Mar 2016 #48
Still In Wisconsin Mar 2016 #54
brewens Mar 2016 #52
H2O Man Mar 2016 #55
HassleCat Mar 2016 #56
senseandsensibility Mar 2016 #58
Aerows Mar 2016 #61
Teamster Jeff Mar 2016 #63
Yo_Mama_Been_Loggin Mar 2016 #64
Joe the Revelator Mar 2016 #66
Bad Thoughts Mar 2016 #71
Logical Mar 2016 #72
malletgirl02 Mar 2016 #73
Lorien Mar 2016 #77
Lorien Mar 2016 #83
Quayblue Mar 2016 #91
Blue_In_AK Mar 2016 #93
ibegurpard Mar 2016 #97
DCBob Mar 2016 #125
Tanuki Mar 2016 #128
DCBob Mar 2016 #134
hibbing Mar 2016 #94
ibegurpard Mar 2016 #96
Warren DeMontague Mar 2016 #98
ZombieHorde Mar 2016 #100
Kalidurga Mar 2016 #103
ibegurpard Mar 2016 #107
Kalidurga Mar 2016 #108
Hekate Mar 2016 #106
DisgustipatedinCA Mar 2016 #150
Odin2005 Mar 2016 #111
Tierra_y_Libertad Mar 2016 #112
forjusticethunders Mar 2016 #113
Warren Stupidity Mar 2016 #114
DisgustipatedinCA Mar 2016 #115
Lone_Wolf Mar 2016 #116
Cobalt Violet Mar 2016 #117
libtodeath Mar 2016 #119
treestar Mar 2016 #120
Vattel Mar 2016 #122
Sky Masterson Mar 2016 #124
Jackie Wilson Said Mar 2016 #127
CountAllVotes Mar 2016 #131
noamnety Mar 2016 #132
patsimp Mar 2016 #133
dubyadiprecession Mar 2016 #135
SHRED Mar 2016 #136
CountAllVotes Mar 2016 #138
lumberjack_jeff Mar 2016 #146
HooptieWagon Mar 2016 #139
Betty Karlson Mar 2016 #141
John Poet Mar 2016 #144
lumberjack_jeff Mar 2016 #145
Logical Mar 2016 #148
cherokeeprogressive Mar 2016 #151
BeyondGeography Mar 2016 #153
thebeautifulstruggle Mar 2016 #155

Response to hill2016 (Original post)

Sat Mar 26, 2016, 11:03 PM

1. Moderates support Bernie. n/t

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Response to hill2016 (Original post)

Sat Mar 26, 2016, 11:03 PM

2. No....

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Response to hill2016 (Original post)

Sat Mar 26, 2016, 11:04 PM

3. She should campaign for Bernie in the general.

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Response to Ed Suspicious (Reply #3)

Sun Mar 27, 2016, 02:02 PM

152. Does the OP mean pivot back to center from the right?

 

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Response to hill2016 (Original post)

Sat Mar 26, 2016, 11:05 PM

4. Maybe she should try sticking to some core values?

Just a thought from someone who supports a candidate who has some.

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Response to bobbobbins01 (Reply #4)

Sat Mar 26, 2016, 11:16 PM

24. Bernie

 

seems to be promising something to everybody without consideration for costs.

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Response to hill2016 (Reply #24)

Sun Mar 27, 2016, 12:06 AM

65. Sounds like R/W radio every day all day what you are saying?

 

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Response to hill2016 (Original post)

Sat Mar 26, 2016, 11:05 PM

5. Nope. She should continue as she is now.

Trump will be toast in the GE.

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Response to Lucinda (Reply #5)

Sat Mar 26, 2016, 11:32 PM

39. I think she needs to stop the left-sounding rhetoric.

 

She can guarantee a win if she picks off all the center and center-right voters who fear (justifiably) a Trump presidency.

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Response to Still In Wisconsin (Reply #39)

Sun Mar 27, 2016, 12:31 AM

84. If you want a republican candidate, just vote for one.

the center is really far right from where it was when I first voted.go any more right and you end up in Barry Goldwater territory.
So the current "center" means cutting social programs to give more money to businesses - Keeping social programs liberal - for now or until the center moves more to the right. and war war war. bid defense budget so they can build more 4 billion dollar gas stations in Afghanistan to only tear it down again.


I guess the repubiicans will finally get what they want another depression and child labor and cheap labor and no birth control ...... seriously if you don't see how far right the democrats have moved, you are not looking.

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Response to hollysmom (Reply #84)

Sun Mar 27, 2016, 12:33 AM

86. I am a Democrat. Bernie is a socialist. End of story.

 

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Response to Still In Wisconsin (Reply #86)

Sun Mar 27, 2016, 12:34 AM

89. Wow, what was FDR a communist?

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Response to Still In Wisconsin (Reply #86)

Sun Mar 27, 2016, 10:35 AM

126. You can take your "end of story" crap and ----- -- ----- --- --- ---'- -----

 

You don't get to end stories here.

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Response to Still In Wisconsin (Reply #86)

Sun Mar 27, 2016, 01:59 PM

149. He is a Democratic Socialist

 

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Response to Still In Wisconsin (Reply #39)

Sun Mar 27, 2016, 01:39 AM

105. Say What?!

This! .... is the problem with Hillary's journey. It's ONLY about winning regardless of what it takes, means or requires. The end justifies, well, just about f"ING anything. Fundamental party/democratic values are just artifacts ... nice but not necessarily relevant to underlying goals -- power, control/authority, Third Way globalism and wealth. Needs, goals, aspirations of the people are simply complications confronted on the journey.

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Response to KPN (Reply #105)

Sun Mar 27, 2016, 02:10 PM

154. +1k

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Response to Lucinda (Reply #5)

Sun Mar 27, 2016, 10:39 AM

129. Agree. She is well positioned as a moderate liberal progressive.

Hillary has always been a policy wonk, and she is not going to change. She's running on over two dozen policy proposals dear to her heart that she will finally get a chance to effect from the White House.

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Response to hill2016 (Original post)

Sat Mar 26, 2016, 11:06 PM

6. Pivoting is Hillary's specialty. Oh, and evolving.

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Response to hill2016 (Original post)

Sat Mar 26, 2016, 11:06 PM

7. I think she's going to have to move to the right significantly to win the GE

 

If the primary has told us anything it's that running as a liberal is not a winning strategy. The Bernie or bust people are collectively a lost cause.

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Response to Still In Wisconsin (Reply #7)

Sat Mar 26, 2016, 11:12 PM

18. "running as a liberal is not a winning strategy"



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Response to Still In Wisconsin (Reply #7)

Sat Mar 26, 2016, 11:13 PM

20. yup

 

that's what I'm thinking too...

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Response to hill2016 (Reply #20)

Sat Mar 26, 2016, 11:18 PM

27. I would expect, for example, the following:

 

(1) Renewed support for TPP

(2) More overt support for Israel

(3) a pledge to intervene more directly against Isis

(4) Some form of social security reform

(5) Support for Keystone XL

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Response to Still In Wisconsin (Reply #27)

Sat Mar 26, 2016, 11:47 PM

45. Do you think those are good things?

I don't support any of those things.

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Response to Avalon Sparks (Reply #45)

Sat Mar 26, 2016, 11:51 PM

49. Lots better than President Trump.

 

I'd rather have *something* with Hillary than nothing, and die in a nuclear holocaust. She would also keep the ACA, not tear it up in favor of a "plan" that would never pass congress. And it is far, rfar, far past time that we elect a female President. Yes, I think that matters.

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Response to Still In Wisconsin (Reply #49)

Sun Mar 27, 2016, 10:39 AM

130. So you think Bernie would first tear up ACA before anything else was voted on and in place?

Of course he would NEVER EVER do that in a MILLION FUCKING YEARS, please stop this insanity!!!!!!!!

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Response to Still In Wisconsin (Reply #27)

Sun Mar 27, 2016, 04:42 PM

157. You're not very good at this

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Response to hill2016 (Reply #20)

Sun Mar 27, 2016, 12:07 AM

67. She just needs to finally be herself

 

and not bend to polls, focus groups or wind-powered strategies. Stick with aggressive foreign policy, lower or no minimum wage increases, support of industries like big oil, big banks and private prisons, weaken social security, support TPP, back the XL Pipeline and leave the ACA as it is. Then she can strengthen criminal sentences for minor drug offenders and make Debbie Wasserman-Schultz her running mate.

Hillary just needs to be Hillary.

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Response to floriduck (Reply #67)

Sun Mar 27, 2016, 12:34 AM

87. If she does that, she wins.

 

And I'm STILL with her.

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Response to Still In Wisconsin (Reply #87)

Sun Mar 27, 2016, 01:23 AM

101. So I take it you're going to go enlist if she gets the presidency?

If you want to support chickenhawk policy, by all means. Have at it. You first.

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Response to VulgarPoet (Reply #101)

Sun Mar 27, 2016, 02:09 AM

109. You see that transparency page?




...

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Response to Warren DeMontague (Reply #109)

Sun Mar 27, 2016, 02:14 AM

110. Oh, _wow._

Now I have seen it all. Someone who went from hardcore bernie to hardcore clinton in the span of two months.

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Response to VulgarPoet (Reply #110)

Sun Mar 27, 2016, 11:02 AM

140. And I believe in the Loch Ness Monster, Sasquatch, and...

the Chupacabra...

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Response to Still In Wisconsin (Reply #7)

Sat Mar 26, 2016, 11:27 PM

35. So why didn't Hillary run with her fellow Republicans?

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Response to k8conant (Reply #35)

Sat Mar 26, 2016, 11:29 PM

36. No way she's get the nom. as a Repub. Look who they're going with! n/t

 

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Response to Still In Wisconsin (Reply #7)

Sun Mar 27, 2016, 12:27 AM

78. So you think that she should position herself to the Right of her pal Drumpf?

Wow. That's barking insane.

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Response to Lorien (Reply #78)

Sun Mar 27, 2016, 12:29 AM

82. No, not to the right of tRump.

 

She moved left to neutralize Bernie's momentum early in the process. Now she needs to move back to the center to get the moderates who decide general elections.

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Response to Still In Wisconsin (Reply #82)

Sun Mar 27, 2016, 01:25 AM

102. You're the first

I never thought I'd see a Hillary supporter admit that she has no values and will shift positions for political expediency.

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Response to Still In Wisconsin (Reply #82)

Sun Mar 27, 2016, 01:38 AM

104. Is this comment real or some kind of satire? /nt

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Response to Still In Wisconsin (Reply #82)

Sun Mar 27, 2016, 01:57 PM

147. She didn't move anything but her LIPS.

 

She paid lip-service to some left-issues while hiring Neoconservative godfather Robert Kagen to run her foreign policy....

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Response to Lorien (Reply #78)

Sun Mar 27, 2016, 08:35 AM

118. seems like she already is on some issues.

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Response to Still In Wisconsin (Reply #7)

Sun Mar 27, 2016, 01:14 AM

99. On what? Specifics. Issues and policies. Please.

I'm curious as to what specific ways you think she's gonna need to move to the right.

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Response to Warren DeMontague (Reply #99)

Sun Mar 27, 2016, 08:43 AM

121. Check out post #27 for a start

 



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Response to riderinthestorm (Reply #121)

Sun Mar 27, 2016, 04:45 PM

158. What a fascinating individual.

Just look at that transparency page.

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Response to Warren DeMontague (Reply #158)

Sun Mar 27, 2016, 04:50 PM

159. Ikr? Things that make you go hmmm

 

2 months, 10 hides and a swift evolution from pro-Hillary to rabidly anti-Sanders.



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Response to hill2016 (Original post)

Sat Mar 26, 2016, 11:06 PM

8. She has been pivoting to the middle...

From the right.

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Response to dchill (Reply #8)

Sat Mar 26, 2016, 11:11 PM

17. Oh yeah--pivoting to the middle would be a left turn for her.

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Response to panader0 (Reply #17)

Sat Mar 26, 2016, 11:13 PM

21. Yup. Follow that arrow.

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Response to panader0 (Reply #17)

Sun Mar 27, 2016, 12:28 AM

79. And a hard one at that! nt

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Response to hill2016 (Original post)

Sat Mar 26, 2016, 11:06 PM

9. I thought that's where she started from.

Do you mean go more to the right?

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Response to hill2016 (Original post)

Sat Mar 26, 2016, 11:07 PM

10. This saddens me.

Remember when single payer or universal healthcare was something everyone here at DU used to think was noble and do-able?

That's just not the case anymore.

=====================

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Response to Beartracks (Reply #10)

Sat Mar 26, 2016, 11:14 PM

22. it's not doable

 

at the cost that Bernie pretends it is.

How do you
(1) cover more people (the currently uninsured)
(2) without cost sharings (copays, deductibles)
(3) and give everybody $5k back a year???

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Response to hill2016 (Reply #22)

Sat Mar 26, 2016, 11:21 PM

31. Why does Rice play Texas?

 

You gotta thing big.

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Response to hill2016 (Reply #22)

Sat Mar 26, 2016, 11:35 PM

42. What is so uniquely fucked up about the USA that we can't

but every other civilized country can?

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Response to yodermon (Reply #42)

Sun Mar 27, 2016, 12:19 AM

70. Id like to see a DU Hillary supporter respond to that

I think either they they want single payer and trust her enough to believe that she supports single care and that she'll do everything she can as President to pass it.

If they don't want single payer, then I'd like for a Hillary supporter to give their opinion why it won't work. I've heard the Repubs arguments already, what would be the Dems reason for not supporting it.

I don't believe that Hillary will put much effort into changing it. because to pass single payer, the insurance companies would go out of business, and the largest insurance companies are making large contributions to her SuperPacs, Clinton Foundation, and also to her personal bank account for
'Speaking fees'. She has accepted this funding openly, it's somewhat transparent.

I don't know the exact total, but I do know it's in the millions. All going to support her...

With all that support why would she vote for anything against her financial supporters best interest? She have to be a jerk to screw them over with her political power?

I mean if someone gave you a million dollars to get elected President, would you vote agaisnt their better interests once you were in my office.

Are they just supporting her on faith that she'll change her mind?

Is she lying to them (her mega money backers) or lying to us? It's either one of the other, hedge your bets.





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Response to yodermon (Reply #42)

Sun Mar 27, 2016, 01:09 AM

95. that's my question .

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Response to hill2016 (Reply #22)

Sat Mar 26, 2016, 11:57 PM

60. I've got your answer Hill2016



Here's the link to his Heath care proposal from Bernie's website?

https://berniesanders.com/issues/medicare-for-all/

You'll find all answers there, and also more information.

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Response to hill2016 (Reply #22)

Sun Mar 27, 2016, 12:22 AM

74. It was at least popular here until fucking Hillary was running! Nt

 

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Response to hill2016 (Reply #22)

Sun Mar 27, 2016, 10:50 AM

137. And yet Canada can, so they are just smarter than us?

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Response to Beartracks (Reply #10)

Sat Mar 26, 2016, 11:29 PM

38. Rainbows and unicorns. n/t

 

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Response to Still In Wisconsin (Reply #38)

Sun Mar 27, 2016, 12:02 AM

62. Better than TPP and Blackwater

 

But that's what you want in the White House.

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Response to Politicalboi (Reply #62)

Sun Mar 27, 2016, 12:09 AM

69. I am pro free trade.

 

So was Prresident Bill Clinton. You know, the guy who ran things when we enjoyed eight years of unparalleled prosperity...

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Response to Still In Wisconsin (Reply #69)

Sun Mar 27, 2016, 12:34 AM

88. free trade = corporate slavery.

Ikind of like to keep the laws we do get passed for the environment.

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Response to Still In Wisconsin (Reply #38)

Sun Mar 27, 2016, 12:23 AM

75. Bullshit, it was popular here until hill turned right! Nt

 

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Response to Beartracks (Reply #10)

Sun Mar 27, 2016, 12:23 AM

76. the queen told them no

Even tho all the other kingdoms have figured it out. I guess they're just smarter than us

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Response to hill2016 (Original post)

Sat Mar 26, 2016, 11:07 PM

11. That's why Bernie needs to stay in

 

If he leaves now, she'll pivot towards the center and accept greater losses among the Bernie supporters. But, if Bernie stays in and she wants a smooth running, peaceful convention, he'll be able to win some concessions from her and keep her more left. I think he's most concerned with domestic issues, where she's fairly liberal anyway. He'll probably let her be a more traditional liberal with regard to her foreign policy. I think for Hillary to beat Trump, she needs to be to the left of him on TPP. Bernie will make that happen.

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Response to hill2016 (Original post)

Sat Mar 26, 2016, 11:07 PM

12. Moderates don't actually exist in any significant numbers.

Lazy pollsters treat independents as a single group. They aren't.

Polls that bother to actually ask preferences have revealed that there are two large blocs of independent voters. Democratic-leaning independents and Republican-leaning independents.

Both groups will only vote for their "leaning" party, or they will not vote.
Both groups are to the left of their "leaning" party.

But when lazy pollsters treat independents as a single group, they are effectively averaging pseudo-Democrats and pseudo-Republicans. Resulting in the false impression that there is a large "middle of the road" bloc.

Instead, the electorate is two big lumps with a valley in the middle. Aiming for that valley is a bad idea. As shown in 2014, 2012 (compared to 2008), 2010, 2004, 2002 and 2000.

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Response to jeff47 (Reply #12)

Sat Mar 26, 2016, 11:12 PM

19. Amen I am an independent who is far left of the Democratic Party...

 

Voted for Sanders in GA and didn't even have to join Democratic Party which was nice. Should be like that in all states, what are Hilldawg supporters afraid of?

(was my first primary vote and potentially national election vote in my life, at 30)

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Response to GeorgiaPeanuts (Reply #19)

Sun Mar 27, 2016, 12:28 AM

81. congrats!

I was about that age when first voted too

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Response to hill2016 (Original post)

Sat Mar 26, 2016, 11:08 PM

13. No she should not

Not all Sanders supporters are "Bernie or Bust" but I don't see how she can win if she goes out of her way to alienate all of them.

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Response to hill2016 (Original post)

Sat Mar 26, 2016, 11:08 PM

14. Moderate what?

 

If you mean independents that lean the slightest left, they are what we call the independents that vote overwhelmingly for Sanders in Open Primaries.

Maybe she can appeal to moderate CEOs of military weapon manufacturers?

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Response to hill2016 (Original post)

Sat Mar 26, 2016, 11:10 PM

15. I think people are trying to prepare themselves, are trying to start rationalizing this scenario

Because deep down they know it's gonna happen. The sad thing is that it already happened. Hillary's moving away from Obama. Talking more hawkish.

The question should be . With today's events will Hillary pivot yet back again to the left.

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Response to hill2016 (Original post)

Sat Mar 26, 2016, 11:11 PM

16. If she goes any further to the Right, she'll declare WW3. Something she can work with the GOP

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Response to hill2016 (Original post)

Sat Mar 26, 2016, 11:14 PM

23. She's campaigning now to the left, she'll go back center right once she get's the nomination(if)

 

Trump would probably push her to the right. I think the Clinton campaign will be counting on the disgruntled Republicans who are soft on the social issues, and hard on defense and foreign policy. It's already been said by some Republicans that they will consider voting for Clinton if she's up against Trump. (God help us if it's Cruz) Nut cases both of them. Bernistas may stay home on this one, they don't like her.

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Response to hill2016 (Original post)

Sat Mar 26, 2016, 11:16 PM

25. No way!! As a Hillary Supporter

 

I say she needs to consider a Secretary of State Sanders. Regardless of Bernie or Bust..

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Response to fun n serious (Reply #25)

Sat Mar 26, 2016, 11:26 PM

34. That would be the kiss of death.

 

Sanders as SOS? Why?

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Response to Still In Wisconsin (Reply #34)

Sat Mar 26, 2016, 11:49 PM

47. Because it would bring our party together

 

Sanders supporters would trust him as SOS... He will have advisers and I personally agree with bi-partisanship RE Israel/Palestine.

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Response to fun n serious (Reply #47)

Sat Mar 26, 2016, 11:52 PM

51. We'd have a SOS who is a moonbat leftist!

 

You want that?

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Response to Still In Wisconsin (Reply #51)

Sat Mar 26, 2016, 11:55 PM

57. Yes. The left sees Hillary as Hawkish

 

Sanders would even that out. He's an American. He would not endanger our country. I rather go more left than more right.

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Response to fun n serious (Reply #57)

Sun Mar 27, 2016, 12:08 AM

68. Sanders is an American, yes...

 

An American who does not support Isreal, wants diplomatic relations with Iran, is against intervention against ISIL, and believes socialism is a realistic goal- and a worthy one- for this country. What would be the point of destroying Sanders and then rewarding him with a Cabinet position?

And if you want to "go more left" why are you for Hillary?

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Response to Still In Wisconsin (Reply #68)

Sun Mar 27, 2016, 12:28 AM

80. I am for Hillary

 

but she is not my perfect candidate. I am more an Obama Democrat. I am left of Hillary and right of Sanders. I am for a sovereign Palestinian state. It's high time someone stands up to Israel's hard right. Sanders in not against ISIL intervention. Why would I want to destroy Sanders? I don't.

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Response to fun n serious (Reply #80)


Response to Post removed (Reply #85)

Sun Mar 27, 2016, 12:39 AM

92. what he attempted to do to her ??? run against her like this is

a democracy or something? instead of a coronation

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Response to hollysmom (Reply #92)

Sun Mar 27, 2016, 01:50 PM

143. This guy has 11 hidden posts in 3 months, and he's not been banned?

http://www.democraticunderground.com/?com=profile&uid=318752

I've seen people banned over 3 hides or less, even for replies that included no foul language.

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Response to Post removed (Reply #85)

Sun Mar 27, 2016, 02:53 PM

156. That's what I ask of Obama

Why did you pick Hillary for SOS? She plays dirty politics and Obama kept her busy so she'd stop criticizing him. . . Maybe.
Bernie should be president or stay in the Senate, and use his voice to keep pushing for the changes we need.

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Response to hill2016 (Original post)

Sat Mar 26, 2016, 11:17 PM

26. Bye TROLL.

 

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Response to hill2016 (Original post)

Sat Mar 26, 2016, 11:19 PM

28. If she "pivots to the middle" from where she already is,

the GOPers who are dissatisfied with Cruz and Trump might try to draft her for their side. She's close enough to being an "establishment" Republican that one little pivot might be all it takes to get her there.

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Response to hill2016 (Original post)

Sat Mar 26, 2016, 11:19 PM

29. she won't need to worry because she won't be the nominee

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Response to hill2016 (Original post)

Sat Mar 26, 2016, 11:20 PM

30. That's not true at all..

Stop it with the broad brushes!

Jeez o' Peat! Some people have gone off the rails here on DU!

Bernie supporter here, but not a "BernieOrBust" If Hillary gets the nomination ofcourse I will vote for her!

Please, take a step back and stop with this silly rhetoric! UGH.

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Response to hill2016 (Original post)

Sat Mar 26, 2016, 11:23 PM

32. That's a great plan for losing in the general

Moderates are a myth. Poll after poll has shown that independent voters lean either reliably right or reliably left, in spite of opting out of the two-party system. The ones who lean reliably left want her to be more like Bernie, not less. The ones who lean reliably right won't vote for her anyway. Tacking to the middle is exactly the kind of inept, triangulating calculation that one has come to expect from DLC types, which is exactly why she shouldn't do it.

Meanwhile, Hillarys biggest problem is that she's perceived to be a craven DC hack who will say or do anything to get elected. Hillary supporters keep saying that's an unfair characterization; yet here you are suggesting it should be her strategy. Which is it?

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Response to hill2016 (Original post)

Sat Mar 26, 2016, 11:24 PM

33. Absolutely, Hill2016.

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Response to Bread and Circus (Reply #33)

Sat Mar 26, 2016, 11:29 PM

37. I wouldn't like Valley2016

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Response to hill2016 (Original post)

Sat Mar 26, 2016, 11:33 PM

40. That's her problem, she tries to be all things to all people ...

 

and spends too much time catering to certain segments rather than just being who she is. Bernie is popular because he's comfortable in his own skin and stands on what he believes. He's not going to "pivot" towards anybody to get votes. If you're with him, great. If not, go find somebody else to vote for. You know where he stands. That's why he's going to prevail in the end.

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Response to ThePhilosopher04 (Reply #40)

Sun Mar 27, 2016, 11:18 AM

142. At this point, does HRC even know what she really stands for?

She has spent her whole life just trying to mimic the political flavor of the month.

She's just an empty pantsuit, IMHO.

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Response to hill2016 (Original post)

Sat Mar 26, 2016, 11:35 PM

41. She pivots left, poaches some Bernie supporters, pivots right and runs in GE, and

she wants Bernie supporters to vote for her -- after screwing them out of the nomination. Actually, what she is doing is better described as bait-and-switch. I don't see that as a valid strategy to get our votes. The only way to stop this kind of deceptive politics is not to reward it. Her best bet is run where she is now on the issues.

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Response to hill2016 (Original post)

Sat Mar 26, 2016, 11:41 PM

43. Well, if her middle pivot involves "compromising on abortion"

 

Or reversing civil liberties for our LGBT community, or starting another war, or cutting taxes for the 1% or other nonsense, this Bernie supporter won't even pretend to hold her nose, so be careful just how far into Republican territory you want your candidate to go to "win".

I know she's comfortable saying anything to win - she was a practicing lawyer, so she will always support the people who are giving her money - but please be careful about the bedfellows you pick. She appears to have the support of Bush and Cheney already, and those are some serious fleas.

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Response to IdaBriggs (Reply #43)

Sat Mar 26, 2016, 11:48 PM

46. The problem, of course, is that if she caters to the left she loses the middle.

 

She needs the middle to win. She does dot need hardcore Bernie nuts.

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Response to Still In Wisconsin (Reply #46)

Sat Mar 26, 2016, 11:51 PM

50. Abortion, civil rights, starting wars, tax cuts for the rich - when did this

 

become "pure Left that Demicratic candidates don't need"? I always thought it was basic core Democratic values.

Oh well. If she's the nominee, I'll switch to Independent. Hopefully it won't be an issue and the point is moot.

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Response to IdaBriggs (Reply #50)

Sat Mar 26, 2016, 11:53 PM

53. You have to look at what is realistic.

 

What can ACTUALLY be achieved?

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Response to Still In Wisconsin (Reply #53)

Sat Mar 26, 2016, 11:55 PM

59. I must be missing your sarcasm emoticon.

 

Have a nice evening.

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Response to Still In Wisconsin (Reply #46)

Sun Mar 27, 2016, 12:35 AM

90. there is no middle

Why the dems have been losing members for years, this imaginary population. There are righties, lefties, and those who don't follow politics

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Response to hill2016 (Original post)

Sat Mar 26, 2016, 11:43 PM

44. The weathervane says ...

NO.

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Response to hill2016 (Original post)

Sat Mar 26, 2016, 11:50 PM

48. Yeah, I think that team Hillary should pivot

I mean, ya'll got this, right? Go on now. Nothing to fear from Senator Sanders.

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Response to me b zola (Reply #48)

Sat Mar 26, 2016, 11:53 PM

54. Agreed. n/t

 

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Response to hill2016 (Original post)

Sat Mar 26, 2016, 11:53 PM

52. You mean move left to try and get the moderates support? n/t

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Response to hill2016 (Original post)

Sat Mar 26, 2016, 11:54 PM

55. Moderate republicans.

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Response to hill2016 (Original post)

Sat Mar 26, 2016, 11:55 PM

56. What do you mean "should?"

 

She already occupies the middle, and she will tack to the right for the general election. But you are right about the Bernie or Bust people, all 418 of them.

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Response to hill2016 (Original post)

Sat Mar 26, 2016, 11:55 PM

58. sure go for it

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Response to hill2016 (Original post)

Sat Mar 26, 2016, 11:57 PM

61. Well, she was in the middle-right to begin with

 

then she pivoted to the left while experiencing push back when Bernie made a good showing as an opponent, so it would not shock me where she rolls next.

She is not the candidate that the Democratic party was looking for.

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Response to hill2016 (Original post)

Sun Mar 27, 2016, 12:04 AM

63. Rough day?

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Response to hill2016 (Original post)

Sun Mar 27, 2016, 12:04 AM

64. After attending today's caucus I'd say the Bernie or Busters are a really insignificant minority

The Bernie Sanders supporters I met today were a rather polite bunch even though we disagreed. Everyone in my caucus agreed no matter who won the Democratic nomination we couldn't let Trump win

Maybe it's the anonymity of the internet that brings out the worst in people. It's harder to be rude to someone to their face.

Maybe they're really Republican sock puppets pretending to be Democrats. Or agoraphobic losers living in their parents' basement.

Who ever they are I won't give them too much thought.

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Response to hill2016 (Original post)

Sun Mar 27, 2016, 12:06 AM

66. If she goes any more to the 'center' she'll be to the right of the GOP

 

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Response to hill2016 (Original post)

Sun Mar 27, 2016, 12:21 AM

71. Wouldn't that make her MORE liberal? eom.

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Response to hill2016 (Original post)

Sun Mar 27, 2016, 12:21 AM

72. Lol? Middle? Shit I would lost the middle! Nt

 

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Response to hill2016 (Original post)

Sun Mar 27, 2016, 12:21 AM

73. She would be betraying

her supporters who genuinely believe she is a progressive. Even though I disagree with their choice of candidate, they don't deserve to be tricked. Plus it would prove Sanders supporters who say she has no principles right.

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Response to hill2016 (Original post)

Sun Mar 27, 2016, 12:25 AM

77. She would have to shift pretty far to the Left to be a "Centrist"

but keep telling yourself that she's one. Her history and policies prove otherwise.

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Response to hill2016 (Original post)

Sun Mar 27, 2016, 12:30 AM

83. With all of her spins and pivots

she must be getting dizzy!


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Response to hill2016 (Original post)

Sun Mar 27, 2016, 12:39 AM

91. No.

She should be right where she is. I think both candidates should stay true to who they are and let the people decide.

Then us Democrats work with each other to get our candidate elected.

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Response to hill2016 (Original post)

Sun Mar 27, 2016, 12:41 AM

93. You kind of crack me up, hill2016.

Are you for realz?

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Response to Blue_In_AK (Reply #93)

Sun Mar 27, 2016, 01:10 AM

97. obviously not

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Response to Blue_In_AK (Reply #93)

Sun Mar 27, 2016, 10:30 AM

125. I wonder also.

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Response to DCBob (Reply #125)

Sun Mar 27, 2016, 10:36 AM

128. As do I, and not for the first time.

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Response to Tanuki (Reply #128)

Sun Mar 27, 2016, 10:42 AM

134. Yes, that poster makes some odd comments for being a Hillary supporter.

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Response to hill2016 (Original post)

Sun Mar 27, 2016, 01:08 AM

94. Funny post, thanks for the much needed laugh n/t

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Response to hill2016 (Original post)

Sun Mar 27, 2016, 01:10 AM

96. lol

She left the middle in the dust a long time ago.

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Response to hill2016 (Original post)

Sun Mar 27, 2016, 01:13 AM

98. How much further to this imaginary middle do you want her to pivot?

Please, lets get some specifics on issues.

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Response to hill2016 (Original post)

Sun Mar 27, 2016, 01:16 AM

100. Maybe she could try speaking her mind and being honest about how she feels about current issues.

Would that be a bad thing, in your opinion?

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Response to hill2016 (Original post)

Sun Mar 27, 2016, 01:30 AM

103. That would be awesome.

Yeah, give her detractors more ammo to prove she is exactly what people say she is.

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Response to Kalidurga (Reply #103)

Sun Mar 27, 2016, 01:50 AM

107. actually it would

It would mean she's headed back to the left. Not that I'd believe her though.

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Response to ibegurpard (Reply #107)

Sun Mar 27, 2016, 01:54 AM

108. If she showed up on my doorstep sopping wet and said she got caught in the rain...

I'd be looking to see if the garden hose had been recently used.

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Response to hill2016 (Original post)

Sun Mar 27, 2016, 01:47 AM

106. AFAICT she has already pivoted to the General Election. She doesn't attack Bernie...

....she goes after the true threats to out country, Cruz and Trump. She's presenting her record and policies to the whole country at this point.

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Response to Hekate (Reply #106)

Sun Mar 27, 2016, 01:59 PM

150. She's tried to attack Sanders on several occasions. Gets burned every last time. nt

 

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Response to hill2016 (Original post)

Sun Mar 27, 2016, 03:09 AM

111. The "Independent Moderates" No longer exist.

Most Independents today are either very liberal or very conservative. The country is hyper-polarized and there is no middle, anymore.

As usual you Hillary supporters are stuck in the 90s.

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Response to hill2016 (Original post)

Sun Mar 27, 2016, 03:14 AM

112. Pivot to the middle? She's going to turn left?

 

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Response to hill2016 (Original post)

Sun Mar 27, 2016, 03:25 AM

113. Man if I wanted to ratfuck Hillary by pushing people into the Bernie or Bust camp

 

this is how I'd do it.

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Response to hill2016 (Original post)

Sun Mar 27, 2016, 07:55 AM

114. That would be "to the right" and no.

 

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Response to hill2016 (Original post)

Sun Mar 27, 2016, 07:56 AM

115. DU 2016 is very different than DU 2001 was. Thanks a whole lot for that.

 

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Response to hill2016 (Original post)

Sun Mar 27, 2016, 08:23 AM

116. She is so far to the Right

In order for her to pivot to the middle, she would have to move to the left!

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Response to hill2016 (Original post)

Sun Mar 27, 2016, 08:33 AM

117. When will you stop spewing right-wing talking points?

It's truly disturbing to to come to DU and have to read so many Republican talking points.

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Response to hill2016 (Original post)

Sun Mar 27, 2016, 08:37 AM

119. Thank you for giving us a president trump or cruz.

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Response to hill2016 (Original post)

Sun Mar 27, 2016, 08:38 AM

120. Good point

We've already been informed that the Bernie voters don't want to vote for Hillary.

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Response to hill2016 (Original post)

Sun Mar 27, 2016, 09:00 AM

122. She should continue to lie about her foreign policy blunders and hawkishness.

 

Trump's one advantage over her is that he seems to be against stupid wars like the invasions of Iraq and Libya.

But I do think if she wins the nomination, then she will trounce Trump in the general. Trump can't beat her or Bernie (unless she is indicted, which seems like a remote possibility).

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Response to hill2016 (Original post)

Sun Mar 27, 2016, 09:20 AM

124. She will swim in the direction of where the pundits tell her to be

The Pundits are usually wrong.
And she will anger a lot of people.
Even those who support her now.

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Response to hill2016 (Original post)

Sun Mar 27, 2016, 10:36 AM

127. You are doing far more harm, far more, with that math crap. In an attempt to

react to the obnoxious and damaging Bernie supporters you have gone too far.

Eventually we have to face the fact that people have a right to healthcare, for instance.

The math says 400 Americans have more than 150 million combined. Very bad situation.

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Response to hill2016 (Original post)

Sun Mar 27, 2016, 10:39 AM

131. #FeelTheBern

n/t



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Response to hill2016 (Original post)

Sun Mar 27, 2016, 10:40 AM

132. Is "pivot" code for change positions?

 

It kind of sounds like you're suggesting your candidate would do or say anything if it helped them get elected.

Maybe you should self-delete this one.

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Response to hill2016 (Original post)

Sun Mar 27, 2016, 10:42 AM

133. she needs to spread a wide net. i think many Bernie supporters will

go to Hillary (and vice Versa if Bernie wins). But there are some that will not no matter how bad the republicans are.

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Response to hill2016 (Original post)

Sun Mar 27, 2016, 10:42 AM

135. Don't worry. Bernie supporters wouldn't want to lose more political ground in..

the GE by staying home and letting the GOP elect Trump.

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Response to hill2016 (Original post)

Sun Mar 27, 2016, 10:43 AM

136. Another rightwing Hillary supporter

 

Zzzzzz.....

They are everywhere now it seems.
Their slogan, "NO WE CAN'T".

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Response to SHRED (Reply #136)

Sun Mar 27, 2016, 10:55 AM

138. Dime a dozen

Zzzzzz .... indeed !!

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Response to SHRED (Reply #136)

Sun Mar 27, 2016, 01:55 PM

146. It's like someone placed a call to a staffing agency to recruit them. n/t

 

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Response to hill2016 (Original post)

Sun Mar 27, 2016, 10:58 AM

139. The middle is far to her left.

 

If she lurches any more right, she'd be running on the GOP ticket.

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Response to hill2016 (Original post)

Sun Mar 27, 2016, 11:12 AM

141. She'll never be the nominee if she keeps losing like this weekend. eom

 

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Response to hill2016 (Original post)

Sun Mar 27, 2016, 01:53 PM

144. Pivot to the middle, from the NEOCON Right?

 

Yes, she should. Then she should divorce the Bushes and fire her NEOCON advisors,

and finally BECOME a REAL PROGRESSIVE DEMOCRAT!



But, that all seems like much too much to hope for.



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Response to hill2016 (Original post)

Sun Mar 27, 2016, 01:53 PM

145. Why yes! Yes she should! Take that inevitable hard right turn *right now* Hillary!

 

We all know it's coming, and it'll be a yuuuuge winner - totally guaranteed!

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Response to hill2016 (Original post)

Sun Mar 27, 2016, 01:57 PM

148. 2 recs, amazing for you! :-)

 

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Response to hill2016 (Original post)

Sun Mar 27, 2016, 02:01 PM

151. She should pivot toward Arkansas and go home.

 

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Response to hill2016 (Original post)

Sun Mar 27, 2016, 02:05 PM

153. There's nothing there

So, no.

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Response to hill2016 (Original post)

Sun Mar 27, 2016, 02:15 PM

155. Hillary should run on a platform that she truly believes in

 

regardless of the audience

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