Where the DEMOCRATIC primaries and delegates stand today

[George II]

Last edited Sun Mar 27, 2016, 12:21 PM - Edit history (1)

States that have voted: 32 (20 primaries, 12 caucuses)
States remaining: 18 (17 primaries, 1 caucus)

States won:

Clinton - 16 primaries, 2 caucuses
Sanders - 4 primaries, 10 caucuses

Popular vote:

Clinton 8,736,831 (59%), Sanders 6,039,285 (41%), Total 14,776,116
Clinton +2,697,546

Pledged delegates as of today:

Clinton 1266
Sanders 1038

Clinton +225

Superdelegates as of today:

Clinton 470
Sanders 29

Clinton +441

Pledged Delegates remaining:

1747

Pledged Delegates needed for "majority" (2026):

Clinton 790 (43% of remaining)
Sanders 988 (57% of remaining)

Total delegates needed for nomination (2383):

Clinton 647 (27% of all remaining delegates)
Sanders 1316 (67% of all remaining delegates)

[WhiteTara]

1. Thanks. I was wondering about the claim

that Sanders had won 14 and Clinton only 7. I appreciate the clarification on the remainder of the race.

[livetohike]

2. K&R

[lunamagica]

3. K&R. Thanks for the clarification

[DemocratSinceBirth]

4. George, please add the popular vote!

Thank you.

[George II]

6. Done - Clinton + 2,697,546

[DemocratSinceBirth]

7. Wow...? Thank you.

[Live Bait]

8. Which means crap when caucuses without ballot states aren't counted.

Like my state.

[DemocratSinceBirth]

12. If you believe uncounted caucus voters can account for a near 3,000,000 vote deficit

If you believe uncounted caucus voters can account for a near 3,000,000 vote deficit there is nothing I can do to disabuse you of that notion...

BTW, they counted caucus attendees in Idaho. It was 24,000. That is about the attendance of a Miami Marlins weekday game.

Which means crap when caucuses without ballot states aren't counted.

I couldn't give a crap what you think is and isn't crap.

[Bubzer]

125. All arguments of who is going to win these states aside

A three million vote deficit could easily be blown away by either California or New York 38.8 million or 19.75 million. 3 million really isn't that big a difference in the grand scheme. In fact, 29 of our 50 states have a population of 3 million or higher. Figure the average state has only about half that vote (maybe a little less) and you still have 18 that could easily eliminate a 3 million vote number. Quite a few of them still have yet to caucus.

[George II]

22. Well, let's put that into perspective. Pledged delegate-wise the caucus states that Sanders won....

...ranked by delegates (a close correlation to population/voters) are 12, 18, 34, 35, 38, 39, 40, 43, and 49. His caucus wins are mostly low-population states.

On the other hand, Clinton's two caucus state wins were #29 and 32 - both larger than 7 of Sanders' wins.

Now, looking at primary states (where vote counts are released)

Sanders' wins were in #8, 30, 41, and 48. Clinton's were in #3, 4, 6, 7, 10, 11, 13, 15, 19, 20, 21, 26, 27, 28, 31, and 36.

So the effects that the uncounted/unreleased votes in caucus states would have on the overall popular vote are dwarfed by those in the primary states.

They sure as heck wouldn't make up 2.7M votes, more like maybe a few hundred thousand.

[DemonGoddess]

5. K&R!

[Surya Gayatri]

9. Enormous K & R. Thanks for posting.

But, be ready for the rapid response swarm...LOL!

[cureautismnow]

10. HRC Needs to Get Around 64% of Remaining Pledged Delegates...

Sans Super Delegates before she reaches the magic number. Ain't gonna' happen. She will need the Super Delegates (of which Bill is one) to get her over the top. These "special" people effectively get to vote TWICE.

[George II]

15. I don't know where your 64% number comes from, but it's incorrect. If you're saying...

...that Clinton needs 64% of remaining pledged delegates to reach the magic number, since Sanders is far behind her how much does he need?

Remember, when talking % the number adds to 100.

One other thing - how do superdelegates get to vote twice?

[cureautismnow]

19. Basic Math.

From YOUR numbers,

She has 1266. She needs to get to 2383 to win the nomination outright. 2383-1266=1117 delegates without "Supers." There are 1747 regular delegates remaining. 1747 x 64% = 1118 delegates.

Regarding voting twice, take Bill as an example. He'll get to vote in the NY Primary next month. Then, he'll get to vote at the DNC as a Super Delegate. That's voting TWICE for his wife.

[MineralMan]

26. All convention delegates vote twice, then,

according your definition, pledged and unpledged delegates alike.

[cureautismnow]

36. True, but the pledged delegates received their power to vote again

from the people and they are pledged to support the wishes of the people. The Supers received their privilege to vote again from the DP leaders and are pledged to no one.

[George II]

43. Well, in that case and using your logic....

Sanders currently has 1038 delegates. So, 2383-1038=1345 delegates without "Supers".

There are 1747 regular (normally called pledged, but whatever), 1747 X 77% = 1345, meaning Sanders needs 77%.

So Sanders gets to vote twice too, once in the Vermont primary and once at the DNC as a Super Delegate.

For you newcomers not too familiar these things, that's the way it works. If you have a problem with Bill Clinton voting for Hillary Clinton twice, I guess you have a problem with Sanders voting for himself twice?

(I can't believe I even bothered to address this bizarre voting twice "logic&quot

[cureautismnow]

44. I'm glad you agree that she won't get to the magic number without Supers.

64% outside of the South is not going to happen for her. He won't get the magic number either without Supers.

The point is that Supers have no place in any election. He or she with the most pledged delegates should get the nomination. End of story. You disagree?

[rock]

62. What totally inept logic

Let's start (sigh*) with your last assertion: "The point is that Supers have no place in any election. He or she with the most pledged delegates should get the nomination. End of story. You disagree?" It doesn't really matter whether we agree or not and whether it should or should not be; It is. It's the rules of the party.
Let me address one more point while I'm here: the target is designed by the party to need some super delegates so that a bunch a rubes cannot force the Dems to run someone who is totally unfit. Look at the Republicans who have such a problem. They use a different system of super delegates and are for the moment stuck with the Donald.

*The sigh is because straightening out your mishmash of garbage is like pulling teeth.

[cureautismnow]

66. I get it. You don't like the will of the people.

The rules of the party should change to eliminate the "special" voters. You think the DP V.I.P.s should be allowed to choose their candidate even if it goes against the wishes of the people. THAT is garbage.

on edit: The GOP can choose any ignoramus that they want including Trump. If he receives the majority of delegates, then he deserves it and they deserve him. The party leaders can pound salt if they don't like whom the people choose.

[rock]

68. Well ain't you just full of "shoulds"

Now whose will are we talking about?

[cureautismnow]

71. Seriously? Do you think voters would vote to continue Super Delegates,

if they were given the choice?

[rock]

74. Well sir or madam

You sure do like to argue.

[cureautismnow]

76. You didn't answer the question.

A Super Delegate is equal to around 10,000 actual voters. Is that fair?

[Silver_Witch]

180. +1000

[Silver_Witch]

179. Ohh you are so right

The party would not want a bunch of rubes (read dreamers, common man) determining the outcome of an election. Only the privileged and the 1% should have control over the votes.

Thank you for clarifying the DNC's policy for us.

[Silver_Witch]

178. Your point is well made...

one man (woman) one vote. Neither Clinton or Sanders should be allowed to vote twice. It breaks the rule of the stated one man one vote.

But then our founding fathers didn't really want one man, one vote. Women were never allowed to vote and only land owners could vote in the beginning.

Somewhere along the line it was one man, one vote and then something happened and the DNC decided they needed Superdelegates ...you know just in case the common man got out of hand and the party leaders needed to decide the outcome.

[pnwmom]

174. Oh, really? Then by your "basic math" how many does Bernie need? Since he's

more than 250 delegates behind her even after the latest elections.

Apparently you're using some sort of magical numbers for him.

[cureautismnow]

183. 77%.

He needs 77% of the remaining pledged delegates. She needs 66% of the remaining pledged delegates. Neither one will reach the magic number when all is said and done by pledged delegates alone. The very special people (Super Delegates) will decide who gets the nomination. They may or may not decide to award their votes to the candidate with the most pledged delegates.

[Silver_Witch]

177. I love a blogger that

does math!!! How cool is that!

[joshcryer]

23. Like Obama in 2008?

[cureautismnow]

29. Yes, exactly. The Supers put him over the top.

Neither one had enough regular delegates to reach the magic number.

[joshcryer]

32. Wasn't a problem then, won't be now.

The pledged delegate leader will get the nomination. Clinton lost by 62 pledged delegates and it was fine, Sanders looks to be losing by triple digits.

[cureautismnow]

39. It WAS a problem for her in '08 before she finally conceded.

She whined about "winning" the popular vote then and I would wager that she will do the same if Bernie somehow manages to catch her in pledged delegates this time around.

Supers should not exist at all. He or she with the most pledged delegates at the end wins. No magic number. Period.

[joshcryer]

93. Revisionism, she rallied behind and supported Obama.

The nastiness attributed to Clinton comes from some where but I can not pin it down.

[cureautismnow]

102. She conceded on June 7, 2008. Look what she said on June 3, 2008.

"Who will be ready to take back the White House and take charge as Commander-in-Chief and lead our country to better tomorrows? People in all fifty states, the District of Columbia, Puerto Rico and the territories, all had a chance to make your voices heard and on Election Day after Election Day, you came out in record numbers to cast your ballots. Nearly eighteen million of you cast your votes for our campaign, carrying the popular vote with more votes than any primary candidate in history. Even when the pundits and the naysayers proclaimed week after week that this race was over, you kept on voting."

"Now the question is, where do we go from here, and given how far we've come and where we need to go as a party, it's a question I don't take lightly. This has been a long campaign, and I will be making no decisions tonight. But this has always been your campaign, so to the 18 million people who voted for me and to our many other supporters out there of all ages, I want to hear from you. I hope you'll go to my website at HillaryClinton.com and share your thoughts with me and help in any way that you can."

She wasn't conceding here. Would you allow Bernie 4 days to think it over before officially supporting HRC?

http://www.realclearpolitics.com/articles/2008/06/clinton_thanks_supporters_in_n.html

[joshcryer]

107. She lost by 62 pledged delegates.

Of course she was going to do anything she could to get the super delegates to flip JUST LIKE SANDERS IS DOING. That's their duty to the people who voted for them.

You are simply wrong. If Sanders can effectively pull it off that's great, but the party is not going to tear itself apart and nominate the candidate with fewer delegates. Period.

She lost fair and square, released her delegates to Obama, suspended the delegate count, and elected Obama by ACCLAIMATION.

[cureautismnow]

116. And that should have been the end of it.

Instead, she waited 4 days to officially concede. That's not being gracious in defeat.

The Supers are not worth 10,000 actual voters. Whoever gets the majority of pledged delegates whether it's him or her should be declared the winner. If the Supers say otherwise, then there will be hell to pay come November 8th.

[joshcryer]

120. You sound like Sanders haters calling for him to concede.

She had every right to try to get supers on her side, period.

I'm sure you'll be calling for Sanders to concede immediately despite him saying he's taking it to the convention, right?

[cureautismnow]

126. The one with the least amount of PLEDGED Delegates,

after June 7 or (possibly June 14), should concede. At the DNC, the Supers should all abstain and henceforth give their privileged powers back to the people.

[joshcryer]

132. The supers cannot abstain because there won't be a majority.

They should back the candidate with the most pledged delegates like they did in 2008.

[cureautismnow]

150. For this election, I agree with your 2nd statement.

Once the magic number is reached, though, those with a conscience should abstain. For the 2020 election and beyond, the magic number should be the majority of pledged delegates ONLY.

[Silver_Witch]

181. I am sure in those 4 days

..there were conversations with Obama about what she would get if she kindly conceded.

[Gothmog]

11. I love math

[kerry-is-my-prez]

24. My right brained head is exploding!

[sheshe2]

13. Thank you George!

[still_one]

14. Thanks

[Cryptoad]

16. Next 30 days,,,

are mostly closed primaries in the East where ony registered Democrats can vote [Bern does not do well in closed primaries] . but he should win Wy caucus

[still_one]

35. good.

[Lucinda]

17. KNR Thank you!

[Cryptoad]

18. Bern Math 2 + 2 = 22

They seems to be unable to grasp that Math includes not only counting but analyzing of the data

[pdsimdars]

30. You don't have a clue about math either

but you should be old enough by now to know that something is fishy with those numbers. . . . oh, but wait, you guys are the ones who can't even acknowledge who Hillary is when she tells you on videos.

[George II]

41. Those are actual numbers as of this morning. You can choose to not believe them, but that won't....

....make them false.

Check this site out, it's very informative:

http://www.thegreenpapers.com/P16/D-PU.phtml

Let us know what you think of it and the numbers presented there.

Thanks.

[mcar]

20. K&R

[MineralMan]

28. It's also a symbol used by many others, including

Christian groups. Your insult is meaningless and uncalled-for. It's also irrelevant to the discussion.

[bettyellen]

33. Used for centuries by Irish people.

That is a disgusting allegation you are making. Repulsive.

[MineralMan]

42. Now hidden, and rightfully so.

[kristopher]

48. That's interesting; you are incorrect but it is right to hide the facts

you are unaware of rather than facing them.

Which candidate do you support again?

[MineralMan]

129. Which candidate I support has zero to do with

Implications that a DUer is a Nazi. Bye.

[pnwmom]

135. You are the incorrect one. The Celtic symbol is ancient and predates

the use of any similar symbol by the Nazis or anyone else.

[Joe the Revelator]

171. Just as a point of fact, the swastika was also ancient and predated its use in Nazism.

Yet, there it is.

[pnwmom]

172. The Celtic cross is not the swastika. nt

[Joe the Revelator]

173. Its not a picture of a puppy dog either.

[kristopher]

45. According to Rachel Maddow it is. (Even part of StormFront's logo)

Transcript:
Show: THE RACHEL MADDOW SHOW
Date: March 17, 2016

I mean, if somebody has white power tattooed on themselves or they
have the Nazi SS or Nazi swastika or nice picture of Hitler, that kind of
thing is too obvious you don`t need to study.

But the next most obvious layer of this stuff is probably these three
symbols. The first one is the number 14. That`s an American white
supremacist thing specifically. It`s very common in neo-Nazi prison
tattoos, but also just in your average, run-of-the-mill American white
supremacist on the street.

“14” stands for the 14 words that make up the white supremacist
mantra written by a guy named David Lane. ....

...Neo-Nazis and white supremacists will often have that number
14 somewhere on their body.

The other number they will frequently have on their body is 88,...

“88” is also just bad number code for Heil Hitler. ...

So, those are the first two. The third one, the other most common
vaguely coded neo-Nazi white supremacist thing you see around particularly
in tattoos is this. It`s a variant of Celtic cross that`s sometimes called
Odin`s cross.

The Anti-Defamation League does a sort of online viewer`s guide to
Nazi junk. And according to the ADL, that cross is the symbol that was
used by Norwegian Nazis in 1930s and 1940s, and then after World War II, a
variety of white supremacist groups and movements adopted it. Today, it`s
used by Neo-Nazis and racist skinheads and Klan members and virtually other
type of white supremacist.

Its also part of a logo of Storm Front, which is the oldest and
largest white supremacist website in the world...

http://www.msnbc.com/transcripts/rachel-maddow-show/2016-03-17

[mcar]

50. Celtic crosses are all over Ireland

Many of us who have Irish heritage appreciate the symbol. Storm Front can go pound sand.

[bettyellen]

51. Most Irish/ Irish Americans have no idea. It is an ancient and meaningful symbol- 14 and 88

are none of those things. The implication here- that a DUer is a nazi sympathizer, totally sucks. Defend it at your own risk.

[kristopher]

53. And the swastika is from Buddhist tradition, so what?

Today, in the US, both are recognized symbols of hate groups and the people who are using it without being aware of it should get a clue.

[bettyellen]

55. Not so much the Celtic cross- it's primary meaning remains what it was for centuries. That was a

shitty implication. 88 and 14 mean nothing else but Nazi support, millions of Irish have no idea their spiritual symbol was co opted by haters- big difference. Shitty shitty thing to say to a DUer.

[mcar]

58. Thank you bettyellen!

I've been here since 2002 and I have never been attacked on this board.

[bettyellen]

59. I am sorry you were trolled for that symbol- DUers should not find excuses to support accusations of

Nazi support based on a cross for fucks sake. Embarrassing to read here.

[kristopher]

67. You have a bizarre definition of trolling... nt

[bettyellen]

69. I don't think anyone believes that poster to be a nazi sympathizer, so it is trolling...

to even suggest it. I think they are trying to make us all look like assholes.

[kristopher]

75. I don't think so either, including the hidden post

Which I read as a pointed piece of well intentioned education.

In contrast, look at the completely inappropriate, bombastic reactions my posts have received. By no stretch of even the most imaginative person's mind can my words be construed as trolling and yet here you are pressing the victim button for all you are worth.

The problem wasn't the comment or the information, it is people who want to bully others.

[bettyellen]

78. baloney- they made it partisan, and manufactured a Nazi smear. Shameless partisan trolling.

there was absolutely no reason to go after Hillary supporters to connect them with one posters (unproblematic) avatar.
What a pant load of shit.

[kristopher]

80. Well at least your last line applies to someone here

Transcript:
Show: THE RACHEL MADDOW SHOW
Date: March 17, 2016

I mean, if somebody has white power tattooed on themselves or they
have the Nazi SS or Nazi swastika or nice picture of Hitler, that kind of
thing is too obvious you don`t need to study.

But the next most obvious layer of this stuff is probably these three
symbols. The first one is the number 14. That`s an American white
supremacist thing specifically. It`s very common in neo-Nazi prison
tattoos, but also just in your average, run-of-the-mill American white
supremacist on the street.

“14” stands for the 14 words that make up the white supremacist
mantra written by a guy named David Lane. ....

...Neo-Nazis and white supremacists will often have that number
14 somewhere on their body.

The other number they will frequently have on their body is 88,...

“88” is also just bad number code for Heil Hitler. ...

So, those are the first two. The third one, the other most common
vaguely coded neo-Nazi white supremacist thing you see around particularly
in tattoos is this. It`s a variant of Celtic cross that`s sometimes called
Odin`s cross.

The Anti-Defamation League does a sort of online viewer`s guide to
Nazi junk. And according to the ADL, that cross is the symbol that was
used by Norwegian Nazis in 1930s and 1940s, and then after World War II, a
variety of white supremacist groups and movements adopted it. Today, it`s
used by Neo-Nazis and racist skinheads and Klan members and virtually other
type of white supremacist.

Its also part of a logo of Storm Front, which is the oldest and
largest white supremacist website in the world...

http://www.msnbc.com/transcripts/rachel-maddow-show/2016-03-17

[bettyellen]

83. You are accusing Skinner of promoting Nazis here via the avatars he provided.

Take this bullshit to ATA.

[kristopher]

84. You have no sense of shame at all, do you.

Transcript:
Show: THE RACHEL MADDOW SHOW
Date: March 17, 2016

I mean, if somebody has white power tattooed on themselves or they
have the Nazi SS or Nazi swastika or nice picture of Hitler, that kind of
thing is too obvious you don`t need to study.

But the next most obvious layer of this stuff is probably these three
symbols. The first one is the number 14. That`s an American white
supremacist thing specifically. It`s very common in neo-Nazi prison
tattoos, but also just in your average, run-of-the-mill American white
supremacist on the street.

“14” stands for the 14 words that make up the white supremacist
mantra written by a guy named David Lane. ....

...Neo-Nazis and white supremacists will often have that number
14 somewhere on their body.

The other number they will frequently have on their body is 88,...

“88” is also just bad number code for Heil Hitler. ...

So, those are the first two. The third one, the other most common
vaguely coded neo-Nazi white supremacist thing you see around particularly
in tattoos is this. It`s a variant of Celtic cross that`s sometimes called
Odin`s cross.

The Anti-Defamation League does a sort of online viewer`s guide to
Nazi junk. And according to the ADL, that cross is the symbol that was
used by Norwegian Nazis in 1930s and 1940s, and then after World War II, a
variety of white supremacist groups and movements adopted it. Today, it`s
used by Neo-Nazis and racist skinheads and Klan members and virtually other
type of white supremacist.

Its also part of a logo of Storm Front, which is the oldest and
largest white supremacist website in the world...

http://www.msnbc.com/transcripts/rachel-maddow-show/2016-03-17

[MineralMan]

130. How many times will you post that

in this thread?

[kristopher]

63. Then because I'm inclined towards Buddhism I can use the swastika?

I don't like it either, but I can't control the trends in the way public interpretation work.

[pnwmom]

139. Then you better not ever use heart symbols, because then you might be saying

you're a pedophile.

Since "you can't control the way public interpretations work."

http://www.snopes.com/code-for-pedophiles-on-toys/

Here’s what the heart means. When a pedophile sees children with the heart symbol, it’s a code. It means this child is ready to be traded for sex.

Pasco Detective Anthony Bassone has been with the agency for more than 16 years. He has one tough job every day. And, what he encounters, he can’t forget. He has to see the worst of the worst. He picks out pedophiles online and busts them, along with two other detectives in the cyber crimes unit at the Pasco County Sheriff’s Office.

These investigators have to deal with the most horrendous, gut-wrenching, heartbreaking material. Sadly, they see children tortured and raped on a daily basis.

These crime-fighters make it through with their motivation to protect children and keep them safe. What drives these detectives to do their jobs and face another day, they told us, is to put the bad guys away.

[sheshe2]

146. Thank you!

That was perfect pnwmom.

Perfect!

[mcar]

154. Should we abandon all symbols because they may be co-opted by hate?

What a horrible concept. Thank you for this sad, awful and apt analogy pnwmom.

[pnwmom]

164. You're welcome, mcar. n/t

[sheshe2]

136. We are no longer allowed to embrace our heritage anymore.

Personally. I think you need to get a clue.

Me. I am a mutt. I am primarily German Swiss and Irish. And have a lot more in me.



You sit there and condemn us all. For a symbol that is from our heritage. That is a part of me, the good part. So cruel of you. I guess you believe all Germans are bad as well. Guess what, my relatives prove you wrong.

[mcar]

140. Exactly she!

I have family on Hubby's side who are Swiss and we both have some German heritage as well. Hubby also has Italian and Russian ancestry so our two wonderful sons are true American mutts.

Are we really to be tarred with the brush of our ancestry (but at the same time, we can't possibly talk about slavery or reparations, no, no)?

[sheshe2]

156. My mom.

For years when I was young my mom called us German Swiss and Pennsylvania Dutch. She wanted to down play our German heritage. She did not want to be associated. It sure as hell is not my fault for what happened then. I was a baby.

Yet it is who I am. I never did anything bad and on research, neither did my own. I embrace my heritage.

Mcar. That symbol is yours and your families. It is your right and your heritage. If anyone tells you different, they are wrong and uninformed.

Reparation? Don't make me start,.

I love you.

[mcar]

161. Love you too she

[pnwmom]

137. Pedophiles supposedly identify each other with heart symbols.

DUers who send Valentines aren't pedophiles and DUers who like Celtic crosses aren't Nazis.

[mcar]

49. That's the second time that poster

implied that I am a neo-Nazi, because of my avatar. I'm glad this one was hidden.

I've used this avatar for many years on DU. Strange that people are taking objection to it now.

[kristopher]

54. Not at all strange since Rachel Maddow just did a show pointing it out.

If you don't want to be inadvertently mistaken for a neoNazi you should know how it is currently used, no? Do you think denying the facts are going to reach into the minds of people who see it and make the neoNazi connection?

[bettyellen]

56. You think millions of Irish people are supporting Nazis- or should be accused of it? Nope.

It is repulsive. A really cheap and desperate shot. Fuck that.

[kristopher]

65. It doesn't matter what I think - I've thought for decades that the Buddhist symbol being co-opted...

It doesn't matter what I think - I've thought for decades that the Buddhist symbol being co-opted sucks but that hasn't changed the way it is viewed in the public sphere, has it?

Again, read what Rachel reports and then take it up with someone above my pay grade.

[mcar]

57. Do you really think that Skinner would allow

a repulsive racist symbol to be used as an avatar?

I don't think anyone who has known me on this board for the past 14 years would "inadvertently" mistake me for a neoNazi. This entire line of discussion is insulting and disgusting.

[kristopher]

64. The discussion is about the symbol...

...trying to falsely turn it into a personal attack is, to quote you, "insulting and disgusting."

[bettyellen]

70. Nope it was about a poster implying (with the old "isn't it interesting") that Clinton supporters

are Nazi sympathizers. That is what we are talking about here.
If you have a problem with the avatar- the proper thing would be to take it up with Skinner. Instead you defend this slime- and that is all on you.

[kristopher]

77. The fact is the symbol IS used by neoNazis just like the swastika is used by neoNazis.

For the rest of your nonsense see post #75
http://www.democraticunderground.com/12511586354#post75

[bettyellen]

79. But 99% of the time, it means Irish roots. And you and that poster know that.

But no allegation is too slimy and low these days. Nazi my ass. Fucking ridiculous.

[kristopher]

81. So Rachel is slimy and low?

Transcript:
Show: THE RACHEL MADDOW SHOW
Date: March 17, 2016

I mean, if somebody has white power tattooed on themselves or they
have the Nazi SS or Nazi swastika or nice picture of Hitler, that kind of
thing is too obvious you don`t need to study.

But the next most obvious layer of this stuff is probably these three
symbols. The first one is the number 14. That`s an American white
supremacist thing specifically. It`s very common in neo-Nazi prison
tattoos, but also just in your average, run-of-the-mill American white
supremacist on the street.

“14” stands for the 14 words that make up the white supremacist
mantra written by a guy named David Lane. ....

...Neo-Nazis and white supremacists will often have that number
14 somewhere on their body.

The other number they will frequently have on their body is 88,...

“88” is also just bad number code for Heil Hitler. ...

So, those are the first two. The third one, the other most common
vaguely coded neo-Nazi white supremacist thing you see around particularly
in tattoos is this. It`s a variant of Celtic cross that`s sometimes called
Odin`s cross.

The Anti-Defamation League does a sort of online viewer`s guide to
Nazi junk. And according to the ADL, that cross is the symbol that was
used by Norwegian Nazis in 1930s and 1940s, and then after World War II, a
variety of white supremacist groups and movements adopted it. Today, it`s
used by Neo-Nazis and racist skinheads and Klan members and virtually other
type of white supremacist.

Its also part of a logo of Storm Front, which is the oldest and
largest white supremacist website in the world...

http://www.msnbc.com/transcripts/rachel-maddow-show/2016-03-17

[bettyellen]

82. We are talking about sliming a DUer w/ Nazi allegations for using an avatar Skinner provided.

Stay on topic.

[kristopher]

86. Now it's more about bettyellen knowingly defending the use of known neoNazi iconography.

"Knowingly" being operative word.

[bettyellen]

87. Skinner provided the avatar- you must have brought this to his attention already, no?

If it offends you as much as claimed. Of course you must have.

[kristopher]

90. Is that how you evaluate personal responsibility?

Wow.

[bettyellen]

92. You are the one accusing people of nazi sympathies here- if you think the avatar is as horrid as

that- why wouldn't you say something to Skinner?
Maybe because you're faking your concern- and Skinner would call you on it. But you;re just fine sliming people saying they are defending Nazis. Complete bullshit.

[kristopher]

95. Now you've crossed into complete irrationality and resorted again to false claims

Transcript:
Show: THE RACHEL MADDOW SHOW
Date: March 17, 2016

I mean, if somebody has white power tattooed on themselves or they
have the Nazi SS or Nazi swastika or nice picture of Hitler, that kind of
thing is too obvious you don`t need to study.

But the next most obvious layer of this stuff is probably these three
symbols. The first one is the number 14. That`s an American white
supremacist thing specifically. It`s very common in neo-Nazi prison
tattoos, but also just in your average, run-of-the-mill American white
supremacist on the street.

“14” stands for the 14 words that make up the white supremacist
mantra written by a guy named David Lane. ....

...Neo-Nazis and white supremacists will often have that number
14 somewhere on their body.

The other number they will frequently have on their body is 88,...

“88” is also just bad number code for Heil Hitler. ...

So, those are the first two. The third one, the other most common
vaguely coded neo-Nazi white supremacist thing you see around particularly
in tattoos is this. It`s a variant of Celtic cross that`s sometimes called
Odin`s cross.

The Anti-Defamation League does a sort of online viewer`s guide to
Nazi junk. And according to the ADL, that cross is the symbol that was
used by Norwegian Nazis in 1930s and 1940s, and then after World War II, a
variety of white supremacist groups and movements adopted it. Today, it`s
used by Neo-Nazis and racist skinheads and Klan members and virtually other
type of white supremacist.

Its also part of a logo of Storm Front, which is the oldest and
largest white supremacist website in the world...

http://www.msnbc.com/transcripts/rachel-maddow-show/2016-03-17

[bettyellen]

99. you are accusing many DUers and the Irish of "defending Nazi symbolism" when you know better

It is as dishonest as it is completely repulsive. Fuck that.

[kristopher]

101. You seem confused

The AntiDefamation League isn't.

Hate on Display™ HATE SYMBOLS DATABASE

Celtic Cross


Also known as: Odin’s Cross, Sun Cross, Wheel Cross

The white supremacist version of the Celtic Cross, which consists of a square cross interlocking with or surrounded by a circle, is one of the most important and commonly used white supremacist symbols. Although usually called a Celtic Cross by white supremacists, its origins date to the pre-Christian "sun cross" or "wheel cross" in ancient Europe. Norwegian Nazis used a version of the symbol in the 1930s and 1940s. After World War II, a variety of white supremacist groups and movements adopted the symbol. Today, this verson of the Celtic Cross is used by neo-Nazis, racist skinheads, Ku Klux Klan members and virtually every other type of white supremacist. It has also achieved notoriety as part of the logo of Stormfront, the oldest and largest white supremacist website in the world.

The Celtic Cross, as typically depicted, is a traditional Christian symbol used for religious purposes as well as to symbolize concepts like Irish pride. As such, it is a very common symbol and primarily used by non-extremists. Most renditions of the traditional Celtic Cross feature an elongated vertical axis (often accompanied by Celtic knotwork) that resembles that of other Christian crosses. Although white supremacists will occasionally use this version of the Celtic Cross, the overwhelming use of this version of the Celtic Cross is non-extremist and, in the absence of other hate symbols, does not denote white supremacy or racism.

It is the short "sun cross" version of the Celtic Cross, surrounded by a circle, that is more commonly used by white supremacists, although even here care must be taken always to judge it in context.

Other Images:

http://www.adl.org/combating-hate/hate-on-display/c/celtic-cross.html

[treestar]

128. A variation

Called Odin's cross. Which is not the DU avatar of course. And of course the Irish are not nazis for the regular cross. So o f course that poster was wrong to make the false implication.

[George II]

88. This isn't a "personal attack", from the hidden post:

"Celtic Cross is a symbol used by Neo Nazis

Isn't it interesting that it's also used by Clinton supporters?"

That was rightfully hidden.

I guess you should attack the Catholic Church, claiming they're "Neo Nazis", too:



Haven't you pushed this ludicrous point far enough yet?

[mcar]

91. There seems no end to it, does there?

[bettyellen]

97. It is completely shameless and repulsive to try and link DUers to Nazism for an Irish avatar.

Disgusting and totally dishonest.

[kristopher]

98. Anti Defamation League: Hate on Display™ HATE SYMBOLS DATABASE

I read it as a heads up advisory.

Hate on Display™ HATE SYMBOLS DATABASE

Celtic Cross


Also known as: Odin’s Cross, Sun Cross, Wheel Cross

The white supremacist version of the Celtic Cross, which consists of a square cross interlocking with or surrounded by a circle, is one of the most important and commonly used white supremacist symbols. Although usually called a Celtic Cross by white supremacists, its origins date to the pre-Christian "sun cross" or "wheel cross" in ancient Europe. Norwegian Nazis used a version of the symbol in the 1930s and 1940s. After World War II, a variety of white supremacist groups and movements adopted the symbol. Today, this verson of the Celtic Cross is used by neo-Nazis, racist skinheads, Ku Klux Klan members and virtually every other type of white supremacist. It has also achieved notoriety as part of the logo of Stormfront, the oldest and largest white supremacist website in the world.

The Celtic Cross, as typically depicted, is a traditional Christian symbol used for religious purposes as well as to symbolize concepts like Irish pride. As such, it is a very common symbol and primarily used by non-extremists. Most renditions of the traditional Celtic Cross feature an elongated vertical axis (often accompanied by Celtic knotwork) that resembles that of other Christian crosses. Although white supremacists will occasionally use this version of the Celtic Cross, the overwhelming use of this version of the Celtic Cross is non-extremist and, in the absence of other hate symbols, does not denote white supremacy or racism.

It is the short "sun cross" version of the Celtic Cross, surrounded by a circle, that is more commonly used by white supremacists, although even here care must be taken always to judge it in context.

Other Images:

http://www.adl.org/combating-hate/hate-on-display/c/celtic-cross.html

[bettyellen]

104. "it is a very common symbol and primarily used by non-extremists." but you can use it as a cudgel

if you are really desperate to demonize others, right? I am so repulsed.

[kristopher]

106. It is what it is. I didn't use it, I don't use it. Anyone who does use it should be aware

...of its connotations.

If you have a problem with that, then YOU have a problem because it is what it is.

[bettyellen]

110. You are supporting and promoting slimy accusations of Nazi support because of an Irish avatar.

How do you live with yourself?

[kristopher]

112. This fully explains the situation.

When you try to argue with the ADL you are on the losing side.
We're done.

Hate on Display™ HATE SYMBOLS DATABASE

Celtic Cross


Also known as: Odin’s Cross, Sun Cross, Wheel Cross

The white supremacist version of the Celtic Cross, which consists of a square cross interlocking with or surrounded by a circle, is one of the most important and commonly used white supremacist symbols. Although usually called a Celtic Cross by white supremacists, its origins date to the pre-Christian "sun cross" or "wheel cross" in ancient Europe. Norwegian Nazis used a version of the symbol in the 1930s and 1940s. After World War II, a variety of white supremacist groups and movements adopted the symbol. Today, this verson of the Celtic Cross is used by neo-Nazis, racist skinheads, Ku Klux Klan members and virtually every other type of white supremacist. It has also achieved notoriety as part of the logo of Stormfront, the oldest and largest white supremacist website in the world.

The Celtic Cross, as typically depicted, is a traditional Christian symbol used for religious purposes as well as to symbolize concepts like Irish pride. As such, it is a very common symbol and primarily used by non-extremists. Most renditions of the traditional Celtic Cross feature an elongated vertical axis (often accompanied by Celtic knotwork) that resembles that of other Christian crosses. Although white supremacists will occasionally use this version of the Celtic Cross, the overwhelming use of this version of the Celtic Cross is non-extremist and, in the absence of other hate symbols, does not denote white supremacy or racism.

It is the short "sun cross" version of the Celtic Cross, surrounded by a circle, that is more commonly used by white supremacists, although even here care must be taken always to judge it in context.

Other Images:

http://www.adl.org/combating-hate/hate-on-display/c/celtic-cross.html

[bettyellen]

115. " care must be taken always to judge it in context" Unless it is DUers- who are obvs supporting

Nazi symbolism, according to your posts here.
I am done with this slimy bullshit. Fuck that.

[mcar]

109. Funny how they ignore that part

Last edited Sun Mar 27, 2016, 07:18 PM - Edit history (1)

My husband gave me a small Waterford crystal Celtic cross for our 25th anniversary 6 years ago because he knows how I love them. Am I to smash that beautiful piece now because some asshats have co-opted it? Should every Catholic church, graveyard and ancient ruin in Ireland destroy their precious artifacts?

[kristopher]

114. Having it as an online avatar in an anonymous forum is an open invitation to ...

...people to interpret it in the context of hate group usage.

That's just the way it is. Like I said, I'm philosophically a Buddhist and I think the swastika's original meaning is wonderful. But because of the way the 3rd Reich tarnished it with their hate and atrocities, I don't even think about using it.
That's just the way it is - a sad statement about the way hate robs our very soul of what we may see as beautiful.

[bettyellen]

117. Which is exactly why YOU should bring this up to Skinner, if you believe what you posted here.

Which I sincerely doubt. You don't believe anyone on this thread is a nazi supporter, but you love trashing us with the allegation.
Repulsive and completely dishonest. Goodbye and good riddance.

[mcar]

123. It really isn't, no

Skinner should remove it as a choice if that were the case. It is just ridiculous to tar Irish people, culture, religious beliefs with the bigot brush because "that's the way it is".

[Sheepshank]

144. Whay are you repetitively pursuing this idiotic line? Nt

[OilemFirchen]

191. Thanks for your concern.

This crusty old Jew has a new avatar.

It's beautfiul.

[Number23]

192. I didn't think I could be a bigger fan but somehow you just made me one

This crusty old Jew has a new avatar.

You are simply awesome.

[OilemFirchen]

193. :blush:

[Number23]

113. Some of the stuff here lately is absolutely astonishing. Some of these folks get angry when the sun

rises. I've never seen anything like them.

Some mouth breather came after me yesterday because I apparently had the nerve to mention to ANOTHER poster that he was responding to me alot in a single day. Bravenak and I were accused of calling white Sanders supporters racists in PMs and when I asked that person four times to post the PM's, he suddenly couldn't figure out how to access them or something and scuttled away.

They just attack, attack and attack. And the more meaningless the topic of attack, the happier they are. I've never seen anything like these folks. Their Zen like presence definitely has the aura of people who are content in their choice of candidate and happy about his chances.

[mcar]

124. Well said!

I've never seen anything like it either.

[still_one]

151. The three cultures that come to mind when one sees this symbol are the Scottish, Irish, and Welsh

It is really sad that some have decided to distort this meaning, with their thought that they are gaining some kind of "political advantage" over Hillary supporters.

This is really sad and pathetic, and I am so sorry mcar, that you are being spammed by these outrageous insults.

[greatauntoftriplets]

159. Here's one a Glendalough in County Wicklow, Ireland.

http://www.irelandideal.com/page20/page25/page25.html

[mcar]

160. Gorgeous!

Are they going to have to tear it down? I saw so many Celtic crosses when I backpacked across Ireland many years ago. I'd hate to think they will all be destroyed because the white supremacists are apparently so powerful.

[greatauntoftriplets]

162. I think it's still the equivalent of an Irish heritage site.

And since it's been there since the 6th century and is a major sight for tourism, they'll leave it as is.

[mcar]

163. What a relief!

[greatauntoftriplets]

165. There's a line in a book about Ireland travel that I read years ago.

They can have their archaic and eat it too.

[mcar]

167. LOL

I just loved it there. I hope to go back someday.

[greatauntoftriplets]

170. Same here and I've been there three times.

[Number23]

175. That is spectacularly beautiful. Wow.

[greatauntoftriplets]

184. Isn't it?

[pdsimdars]

27. Math is a process, but it does depend on your assumptions and how you proceed

That is why you'll see variations of these calculations.
Looks like they spun this quite a bit. What else would you expect.
Are they EVER honest? (rhetorical)

[George II]

31. How are these cold, hard numbers "spun"? They are HONEST reality.

[RichVRichV]

133. See post #72

Whether intentional or accidental the race has been tailor made to favor a Hillary is inevitable narrative. She has blown through the region where she easily did the best (the south) and is running out of delegates from there. The Mid West has been largely a tie and is running out of delegates. Most of the remaining delegates (over 71%) are in the West and North East. Those two regions Bernie has been winning by 63% and 59% respectively.


Hillary may still win the pledged delegate count, but it won't be by anywhere near the 228 she has now. Bernie may even surpass her if he exceeds expectations by a little.

[George II]

143. The schedule has been basically the same as in previous presidential primary campaigns....

....give or take a week here, a week there.

The numbers in the OP are documented results.

[RichVRichV]

153. Your numbers are accurate but so are mine. They come from the same raw data.

Mine just explains your numbers in better detail. Everything I stated is true. Hillary's best run was in the first half of delegates. The flip side of that is Bernie's best run is in the second half of delegates. The places that Bernie has done the best have the majority of remaining votes. If statistical trends hold Bernie will erase most (if not all) of her lead.

[George II]

155. Sanders' best runs have been in small caucus states and small states with...

...mostly rural, Caucasian constituencies.

His four biggest states delegate-wise have been Michigan (ranked #8) Washington (a caucus state ranked #12), Minnesota (a caucus state ranked #18) and Colorado (a caucus state ranked #22)

All his other wins have been in states further down the list with respect to delegates (30, 34, 35, 38, 39, 40, 43, 48, and 49)

Clinton's best runs have been in larger states with large urban areas and more racially diverse constituencies.

Her four biggest wins delegate-wise have been in state with primaries - Texas (#3), Florida (#4), Illinois (#6), Ohio (#7), as well as states ranked 10, 11, 13, 15, 19, 20, 21, 26, 27, 28, 29, 31, 32, and 36.

Looking at the last 18 states to vote, the majority of them are larger states with primaries - Clinton's strength. Only two of the remaining 18 states have caucuses - tiny North Dakota and Wyoming.

Other than his razor thin 18,000 vote win in Michigan, Sanders has yet to win a primary in a large, diverse, urban state.

[RichVRichV]

157. Is it about winning states or about winning delegates? Make up your mind.

Hillary hasn't done squat for delegates outside the south with the exceptions of Ohio (+19) and Arizona (+13). No where else outside of the south did she net more than 5 delegates. You tout my state of Illinois for it's size and yet it ended up as a tie on delegates (remember, it's all proportional). The much smaller Washington State netted Bernie 47 delegates. Little Utah netted him 21 delegates. Vermont, Minnesota, Kansas, Idaho, Colorado, and Alaska all netted Bernie double digit delegate gains.

Keep bemoaning those huge wins in small states and we'll laugh it up all the way to the nomination. Yeah Hillary absolutely killed it in the south, but she's about out of southern states to keep her going.

[George II]

166. Yes, it's about winning delegates, and as of today Clinton has about 220 more than Sanders....

...Period.

Keep "laughing it up all the way to the nomination" if you want, but that won't change the delegate count.

And if you, or the Sanders' campaign, want to discount the South, that's fine, but they're still part of the Union and their votes count the same as Northern votes.

[RichVRichV]

169. Of course they count.

Never said they didn't. Congratulations to Hillary on her resounding wins there. But she's about out of southern states. Meanwhile the areas Bernie does best in still have a lot to come. Ignore those if you want. But it doesn't change what's ahead. This race is far from over.

[George II]

40. The Celtic Cross is also one of the stock DU avatars one can use in one's profile. Check it out!

[kristopher]

47. The Celtic Cross is part of StormFront's logo.

See above post http://www.democraticunderground.com/12511586354#post45

I understand your position. I'm inclined towards Buddhism philosophically so I really resent that the 3rd Reich co-opted the swastika and turned it into a symbol of hate and murder.

You can read the entire transcript of the show where Rachel covered it here:
http://www.msnbc.com/transcripts/rachel-maddow-show/2016-03-17

[George II]

103. I think you should take that up with the owners of this site, who have provided that symbol...

....of "Neo Nazism" for all members to use as avatars if they so wish.

[kristopher]

111. Is that your view of individual responsibility?

It's one thing to not be aware of a social situation like this, but it's entirely another thing to embrace the use of a symbol like this once you've been made aware that it is a genuine equivalent for a swastika in the hate group world view.

I'm sure that Skinner etal had no idea this symbol had been adopted by the likes of the KKK. I had no idea it was an avatar that had been loaded. I imagine they will remove it now that it has been raised as an issue.

[bettyellen]

118. the article you posted said " care must be taken always to judge it in context." and look for other

symbols to accompany it. Also, that it is primarily an innocuous symbol used for Celtic pride or Christianity. Sawstikas however, are primarily seen as symbols of Nazism, which makes your Buddhist comparison moot.

You defend that hidden post bashing Clinton supporters as being supportive of Nazi symbolism because it suits your agenda. So much for having integrity. God knows what other disgusting smears you'd hope to make out of this. If the cross offends you, go to Skinner- but stop attacking people here as if they were Nazi sympathizers. That is disgusting and you know better.

[bettyellen]

121. The big lie here is that any DUer here is promoting Nazism. And that is a lie you have defended

over and over again. To do that, you strip these symbols of they most accepted meanings and pretend the Celtic Cross= Swastika. No one is buying that bullshit, especially not us Irish. Sorry- go sell it to Skinner, let him know of your "concerns".

[kristopher]

122. That is an overtly false statement. We're done.

[rbrnmw]

34. k&r

[enid602]

37. last hurrah

Bernie had his last hurrah yesterday. I don't think we should try to take that away from him. But now, with closed primaries coming up in Northeastern states where Bernie's anti-Wall St message does not resonate, I think our time is coming at us fast. Go Hill!

[k8conant]

142. Are you saying the whole northeast is rah rah Wall Street?

I think it is not.

[enid602]

189. major industry

It's the major industry in the northeast.

[k8conant]

190. You mean most of them work for Wall Street...

or that most of them work for companies that are listed on the exchanges and don't see what Wall Street is doing to them?

[SidDithers]

38. DU rec...nt

Sid

[baldguy]

46. Numbers don't lie.

[Ghost Dog]

127. Well, 1266-1038=225? If the OP says so...

Clinton 1266
Sanders 1038

Clinton +225

[metroins]

52. Straight up facts, no opinion

Thank you

[RichVRichV]

131. Lies, damned lies, and statistics

The numbers don't mean a whole lot until you break down who has voted and who's left to vote. Look at post #72.


The thing I love about statistics, they can mean anything you want depending on how you present them. There is a reason Mark Twain lumped statistics in with lies and damned lies.


The funny part of this (from a statistical point of view) is that Hillary may end up winning the nomination while not winning a single region's delegate count outside of the south. Just for fun's sake I calculated out what would happen if each region kept going the same way it has been on delegate distribution and Hillary would end up winning the total pledged delegate count by 34 delegates. This race is closer than many assume.

[rock]

60. We thank you

For a simple statement of the facts.

[quantass]

61. OP, UPDATE YOUR Numbers....

Total delegates needed for nomination (2383):

Pledged Delegates Only

Clinton 1117 (64% of all remaining pledged delegates)
Sanders 1345 (77% of all remaining pledged delegates)

Pledged Delegates + Super Delegates

Clinton 647 (27% of all remaining delegates)
Sanders 1316 (67% of all remaining delegates)

** Note: Super Delegates should never be considered in all these pre-Convention numbers. The primaries, as believed by the people, is about the people and their votes not the backroom pre-negotiated deals of party elites. As more informed individuals we have a duty to not continue to perpetuate this false narrative. But for the sake of your thorough numbers i've left it in above but titled it correctly.

[RichVRichV]

72. Statistical Fun!

Right now Hillary is ahead by 225 pledged delegates. Let's look at those by region.

In the south there have been 1070 delegates awarded. Hillary has won 718 delegates (67.1%) verses Bernie's 352 delegates (32.9%). Giving Hillary a net gain of 366 delegates. There are 220 delegates (12.6% of total) left to get in the south.

In the Mid West there have been 679 delegates awarded. Hillary has won 331 (48.7%) verses Bernie's 348 delegates (51.3%). Giving Bernie a net gain of 17 delegates. There are 207 delegates (11.8% of total) left to get in the Mid West.

In the North East there have been 156 delegates awarded. Hillary has won 64 (41%) verses Bernie's 92 delegates (59%). Giving Bernie a net gain of 28 delegates. There are 641 delegates (36.7% of total) left to get in the North East.

In the West there have been 374 delegates awarded. Hillary has won 141 (37.7%) verses Bernie's 233 delegates (62.3%). Giving Bernie a net gain of 92 delegates. There are 605 delegates (34.6% of total) left to get in the West.

In the non-states there have been 25 delegates awarded. Hillary has won 12 (48%) verses Bernie's 13 delegates (52%). Giving Bernie a net gain of 1 delegate. There are 74 delegates (4.2% of total) left to get in the non-states.




Bernie has bested Hillary in every region except the south. His two highest winning regions, the West (62.3% of the delegates won) accounts for 34.6% of the delegates left, and the North East (59% of the delegates won) accounts for 36.7% of the delegates left. That's 71.3% of the remaining delegates in the region's Bernie has done the best in (averaging 61.3% of the delegates won between those two regions).

[k8conant]

145. Thank you...

[Sheepshank]

73. Thanks for the concise.

So many odd and weirdly justified talking points about the numbers to date, but this data in the moment doesn't really need interpreting.

[Jennylynn]

85. I don't understand why Clinton automatically gets the Supers.

Is it because Sanders is new to the Dem party? (Not the established Dem. Candidate?)

[George II]

89. Nobody said that, but 470 of the superdelegates have declared their support of Hillary Clinton.

That's why she'll get their votes at the convention.

[kristopher]

94. History goes against that premise.

Bernie support is pretty damned high in the nonSouthern states, and that puts those supers between a rock and a hard place.

If they go against Hillary and she wins, we all know she will retaliate against them. If the go against their constituents they are going to get canned in the next election.

I'm betting they will do the right thing when push comes to shove; but I also admit that Bernie has do his part and match or beat Hillary in pledged delegates.

[George II]

100. I think the people in Iowa, Illinois, Ohio, and Massachusetts would differ with that conclusion.

Are you here just to argue everything with everybody?

[Jennylynn]

105. Oh I see

They've declared their vote to her. Thank you. Well then no wonder the media keeps adding them to her Deligate lead.

[blueintelligentsia]

96. Wonderful jobs putting this together...

Would you mind adding how you got to Pledged delegates of today: +225, Bernie gained 78 last night?

[George II]

147. The Green Papers has yesterday's results:

Washington - 74-27 (101)
Alaska - 13-3 (16)
Hawaii - 17-8 (25)

That's Sanders 104 and Clinton 38 - a gain of 66 delegates.

This site has been the most accurate since the primaries began.

http://www.thegreenpapers.com/P16/D-PU.phtml

[Number23]

108. THWACK!!!!! And even with his victories yesterday, still down well over 250 delegates

But I have no idea where you are getting that Sanders has over 1000 delegates. I have only been checking NY Times because everything else is so slow and they have him at 975. http://www.nytimes.com/interactive/2016/us/elections/primary-calendar-and-results.html?_r=0

If you are including his 29 supers, you really need to include her 470 supers too.

[Cha]

134. Mahalo George!

[George II]

148. Bad day for you guys out there yesterday, but......

........"it's all in a day's work" - bigger and better things to come in the remaining 18 states.

[Cha]

149. ..

[Sancho]

138. thanks

a clear picture

[oasis]

141. Thanks, George ll.

[DesertFlower]

152. thanks for the update.

[Vote2016]

158. superdelegates as of today - zero; they don't vote until the convention, but - hey - what's a little

misinformation among friends?

[George II]

168. Pledged delegates as of today - zero; they don't vote until the convention.

[Silver_Witch]

182. Oh SNAP!

[Silver_Witch]

176. This is totally doable

I have seen stranger things in my life and I have every confidence that Bernie's name recognition is growing.

That little birdie helped more than any ad campaign. I believe!!!

[DesertRat]

185. k&r

[DemocratSinceBirth]

186. This thread devolved.

[George II]

187. Sure has. But none of that changed the current tally of delegates and votes.

[DemocratSinceBirth]

188. Check out my sig...

That occurred in this thread...