2016 Postmortem
Related: About this forumThis is a primary. It is NOT a binary choice between Clinton or Trump
This meme that anyone who is critical of Clinton is pulling for a Trump victory is merely an attempt to place the Lock of Groupthink onto the campaign.
It is a conscious marketing ploy to make opposition against Clinton in the primary or support for Bernie SEEM LIKE an endorsement of Trump.
hereforthevoting
(241 posts)Armstead
(47,803 posts)JackInGreen
(2,975 posts)They're terrified Hillary is the only hope against big bad trump and she'll deliver them to a progressive paradise riding the pile like she's the cherry on a rocket powered milk shake.
If she wins the primary and the GE the buyers remorse is going to be displaced so hard it might shift dimensional planes! If she wins the primary but loses the GE it's Bernies fault or The Bernieboys (I'll go back to the way the phrased it in 2008 over Obama) destroyed their chances, or the violent armed neanderthal males scared all of the strong feminsts away from the polls.
I'm going to run out of popcorn and outrage before the years up.
longship
(40,416 posts)I mean other than pre-entitled Queen Hillary.
So it is not a matter of the entitled vs the entitled, Hillary vs. Drumpf.
Let that saturate into your soul.
Haveadream
(1,632 posts)We are in the primary. Despite the odds against Bernie winning the nomination, he is still in the race and has a message that he is uncompromisingly determined to deliver. His message has inspired many people to be engaged in the political process for the first time.
Your post highlights the frustration many feel because they desperately want to be part of that process and to have their views and goals respected. For all of our history, vast swathes of the population have always been just that: without voice, representation or respect. Although it is easy to get swept up in the supercharged and sometimes destructive dynamics of the battle to "win", it is vital that we, as individuals, remain steadfast in our efforts to change that narrative. We cannot expect our leaders to do what we ourselves do not.
The last thing anyone needs is to be shut down or shut out. To be ridiculed or censored. Being excluded and having no voice or representation is soul crushing and destructive. Virtually all of the conflict and demands, in the world at large or here at DU, are fear based. That is what drives supporters of all the candidates, whether Bernie, Hillary or Trump for that matter, to cling to one position, candidate or another and shut out all dissent. For any of us to make progress and create inclusion, it is vital that we, not just our leaders, listen to those voices and fears and find ways to resolve them. It is beholden on each of us, not just the politicians, to truly fight for the rights of everyone to be heard. No candidate can do it without US. That is what democracy looks like.
Armstead
(47,803 posts)beam me up scottie
(57,349 posts)Armstead
(47,803 posts)DanTex
(20,709 posts)How hard is it to just say that the Bernie or Busters are nuts, that anyone who would sit out the GE and let Trump win has not business calling themselves a progressive? What gives?
Armstead
(47,803 posts)What people choose to do after that is irrelevant at this point. Carts and horses.
DanTex
(20,709 posts)election going on, anyone who advocates for the GOP is not a progressive.
Armstead
(47,803 posts)DanTex
(20,709 posts)affect the primary are BoBers. They're trying to insist that if Dems don't nominate Bernie, then they will stay out and let Trump win, as a persuasion/blackmail technique.
I'm really surprised that you're siding with them. BoB is a morally grotesque position.
Armstead
(47,803 posts)People say a lot of things in the heat of the moment.
DanTex
(20,709 posts)Neutrality in the face of Trump is indefensible.
Armstead
(47,803 posts)The phony dichotomy that at this point it has to be a choice between Clinton or Trump is what I am opposed to.
You will note that in the interview Sarandon said she will "wait and see what happens" before deciding what she will do after the primary.
Armstead
(47,803 posts)Ralph Nader at a memorial celebration for......Howard Zinn
http://www.unwelcomeguests.net/032_-_Nader_Rally_(Howard,_Zinn,_Michael_Moore_etc.)
And Lo and behold, a 2000 rally for Ralph nader featuring a rousing speech by.......Howard Zinn. (Advance top bar to about 5 min 40 seconds). If you listen you might learn something.
DanTex
(20,709 posts)Armstead
(47,803 posts)DanTex
(20,709 posts)Which is why your neutrality in the face of Trump is morally indefensible.
But I didn't realize you were a Naderite. Learn something every day.
Armstead
(47,803 posts)If not, you're just collecting quotes to bolster your case with no clue of the source. Which is it?
Here's another quote from Zinn in 2000. "We have 2 milliion in prison and that is class war. ........Every month a million people die of starvation while both parties support this obscene military budget...And both parties support this class war of the rich against the poor...And I cannot pull a lever on election day in support of that."
DanTex
(20,709 posts)Armstead
(47,803 posts)of the moment.
Haveadream
(1,632 posts)My post is defending everyone, including the members of DU, to have their voices heard. That includes the right to have a vote in the primary, despite the harsh odds either candidate faces. I believe the OP is saying just that, the desire to participate in the primary race without that limited part of the process being characterized as voting for Trump. If the situation were reversed, I would support HRC voters to be able to do the same.
To be clear, none of this applies to the General Election.
The other, much more important message, is that it is critical that each of us hear the fears and concerns of others and to find ways to support each other. In other words, to find common ground. The intent of the post was to work to resolve differences together so there is a path forward for the GE and have a unifying message so that we can prevail against Trump.
VulgarPoet
(2,872 posts)at least not without a moral lobotomy.
LexVegas
(6,959 posts)Armstead
(47,803 posts)Although I do say there is a danger that Clinton might not be able to attract independents as well as Bernie...And Bernie could draw some voters who might otherwise vote for trump because they are looking for a candidate against the status quo establishment
LexVegas
(6,959 posts)Armstead
(47,803 posts)of people who support Bernie.