Loyalty pledges - have they worked on anyone here?

[revbones]

There have been a lot of loyalty pledge type posts going around from the Hillary followers askingpleadingberatinginsulting people to abandon whatever principles they might have possibly preventing them from voting for Hillary in Nov - if she is the nominee .

My question is to those that are possibly unable to vote for Hillary (if she is the nominee) have any of you 'seen the light' and converted over as a result of reading any of those loyalty pledge posts?

My assumption is that they have actually had the opposite effect for many, causing them to dig in their heels at being antagonized, and if they didn't before then it may have helped cause many to now see Hillary followers more akin to the mythic 'BernieBro' that they namecall Bernie supporters with...


By loyalty pledge posts, I'm referring to all the ones that say
- Vote for the one with the D no matter what
- If you don't vote for Hillary, Trump somehow gains +1 magic votes
- By not voting for Hillary, Trump wins
- Every not vote for Hillary is another kitten for Trump
- You are Trump-humping (worst language abuse ever) if you even discuss that some might be unable to pull the lever in Nov and are not only doing so to berate someone for having that opinion.

[onecaliberal]

1. Nope.

[TheBlackAdder]

64. Loyalty Pledges are NO different than Grover Norquist's Tax Pledge--Transfers Power to Others!

.


People who sign loyalty pledges are weak and easily controlled as they abdicate their power to someone else!


.

[onecaliberal]

65. ^^^That^^^

[Wellstone ruled]

2. Never,but

sure as hell had fun with the Idiot whom brought to the table.

[angstlessk]

6. Wellstone...he was one hell of a Senator

AND every political part of his family was murdered on that plane!

They remembered Mel Carnahan, so they wanted no one left who could be replaced!

[revbones]

8. I'm confused by your post. Would you elaborate?

Specifically it doesn't seem relevant to the OP or the comment you replied to. That said, I could easily be wrong so I'm just asking for further clarification.

[angstlessk]

10. I was referring to the nomenclature of the person to whom I was posting

Wellstone...sorry to confuse you

[revbones]

11. Ahh. Didn't catch the username, just looked at the text. nt

[Wellstone ruled]

12. Loyalty to a canditate

will never happen with me. No way in hell will I ever refuse to cast my ballot.

[Wellstone ruled]

16. He was one hellva person in real life also.

We shared Grand Kids photos a few days before he passed.

[angstlessk]

20. As sad as I was at his passing, you must have grieved him and his family

10 times more..I first heard him on CSpan, and knew right away he was special.

[Wellstone ruled]

24. My Spouse and I sent

Flowers and condolences like many who new him on a personal basis. Just to know him in my life time is was special. Have the memories and they are all so positive.

[Metric System]

3. It cuts both ways. You better hope Bernie isn't the nominee.

[revbones]

4. How may loyalty pledge posts have his supporters made here? nt

[Metric System]

5. Why would they need to? It's not Hillary supporters running around DU saying they'll only vote if

their candidate wins. Meanwhile, Sanders supporters post daily about how they'll never vote for Hillary.

[revbones]

7. So....

You're saying that all the people posting about always voting for the Democratic nominee won't vote for the Democratic nominee?

Weird.

[Metric System]

9. No, I'm saying Sanders supporters don't need to ask for loyalty pledges, because Hillary supporters

don't go around DU posting about how they'd never vote for Sanders.

[revbones]

19. So...

You're saying Sanders supporters don't need to ask for loyalty pledges because Hillary followers will vote for Bernie?

Good. We're on the same page.

That said, I would have always assumed so. Voting for Hillary seems to require that "Lesser of two evils" mentality,and since Bernie is definitely less evil, then it shouldn't be a problem - and thusly no loyalty pledged needed.

[timmymoff]

62. I agree

but there is a difference, Sanders supporters do not trust the person just because they have a (D) behind their name. One candidate has stood on quite a few wrong sides of various issues. There is a consistency problem in believing her. How do we know what she stands for anymore? She has had some terrible votes. Those votes are the difference between her and Sanders. While they may have voted the same 90% of the time, the glaring differences in that 10% are problematic for us. We know she will be changing her stances for convenience if she is nominated. Are you going to hold her feet to the fire if she is nominated? Doesn't seem anyone has yet, they just accept these policy shifts as a o.k. Almost acting as if these have always been her stances. it is uncanny. There are a few of the reasons she struggles with us.

[Maedhros]

13. This has been the primary propaganda catapulted by the Democratic establishment

since at least 2000.

"If you don't vote for our very flawed candidate, the Republicans will win (and it will be the most horrific thing EVER!)."

It conveniently absolves them from having to actually DO anything. The result is that Democrats end up voting for a null result that ensures nothing changes.

[revbones]

14. Ah. Old propaganda, otherwise BNR would have it front page...

cause they serve up the very best and freshest...

[GoneFishin]

30. Yep. What a bargain, huh?

[firebrand80]

15. I don't need anyone to convince me to vote D

The choice is obvious as far as I'm concerned

[Jackie Wilson Said]

27. Some need to be coddled and stroked, otherwise they will threaten to withold.

[grntuscarora]

17. No.

Most definitely, no.

I will not be bullied into a vote.

[Nye Bevan]

18. YES. I have pledged to vote for Bernie in November, in a heartbeat, if he wins the nomination.

Because not voting for him would help the Republican candidate. And helping the Republican candidate would be a really shitty, despicable thing to do. Wouldn't it?

[revbones]

21. So you're saying a loyalty pledge convinced you to vote for Bernie?

Could you provide a link please? I haven't seen any loyalty pledge posts from Bernie supporters.

[Nye Bevan]

31. YES. A thread convinced me that not voting for the Democrat in November would be a shitty,

disgusting course of action. I don't have the link though, sorry.

[revbones]

33. So you're saying

that you previously would not support Hillary if she became the nominee, but a thread here changed your mind?

Interesting. I'm asking because I've never seen a thread in the reverse of that, and for one to have convinced you so hard that you now sport a Hillary icon avatar, it must've been some kind of magical thread.

Do please try to find a link to that. I would be quite interested in reading it. I'm sure since it convinced you, that you posted in it, and it won't be too hard to look through your posts to find it.

Waiting patiently.

[Nye Bevan]

36. No, I have always supported Hillary for the nomination.

At that point I hadn't really thought about what I would do if someone else won the nomination. But now it's clear to me that the most important thing is to stop the Republican and vote for the Democratic candidate whoever that may be.

[revbones]

38. I'd still like the link to that thread that you said convinced you

Here you say you always supported Hillary and now it's clear that you the most important thing is voting Democratic - possibly implying that you were not going to.

I'm not sure when "now" was, but your previous statement said that "a thread convinced me that not voting for the Democrat in November..." Could you provide a link to that thread please? I would really like to read it.

[Nye Bevan]

43. Here ya go:

http://www.democraticunderground.com/1251450508

[revbones]

47. So you're saying that thread is a loyalty post style thread?

And it changed you mind?

I'll give you the latter, but it's not really the same thing as those loyalty pledge ones.

[Nye Bevan]

48. "Anyone who will not support the nominee can kiss my ass...." (nt)

[quickesst]

22. Haha....

"By loyalty pledge posts, I'm referring to all the ones that say
- Vote for the one with the D no matter what
- If you don't vote for Hillary, Trump somehow gains +1 magic votes
- By not voting for Hillary, Trump wins
- Every not vote for Hillary is another kitten for Trump
- You are Trump-humping (worst language abuse ever) if you even discuss that some might be unable to pull the lever in Nov and are not only doing so to berate someone for having that opinion."

Not any one of those you listed come anywhere near close to loyalty pledges. But they are close to the same thing Bernie supporters have been screaming at everyone for quite some time now. How many times have we heard "the only person who can beat Trump is Bernie" " if Hillary is our nominee you might as well hand the presidency over to the Republicans", " if you believe in democracy you must vote for Bernie", and I could go on and on, but I think you get the point. One thing I do agree with on your list is number two, and there isn't anything magical about it.

The next time you come up with some hokey s*** like this, try and have some actual loyalty pledges to prove your point. Otherwise, take a look in the mirror.

[revbones]

25. Um, actually they do

and that's been the terminology used to describe them. I'm sorry if you disagree with the terminology, however we are all constrained by language and its usage.

Those points used as reasons to browbeat people to vote for Hillary are quite easily seen as akin to loyalty pledges. I'm sorry if you disagree. It's easy enough to see those and I think most people would agree that those are easy enough to find in GDP.

That said, nice example of 'Whataboutism' in your redirection there.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Whataboutism

[quickesst]

41. That is the terminology...

... Bernie's supporters use to describe a person trying to persuade someone to vote for their candidate . The fact is they are not, I repeat not, loyalty pledges. The fact you choose to ignore that the same comments are being used by Bernie's supporters speaks for itself. One thing I'm positive about. I don't call them loyalty pledges. They are what they are.

On edit I will I comment on your "whataboutism" meme. You are wrong that it is a misdirection as I have already stated beforehand the error you committed by claiming your statements are loyalty pledges. Sorry you can't argue your case with two sides of the story.

[revbones]

42. That is the grouping that many have come to use

Whether you like the colloquialism or not, you even admitted to its usage in your post. So trying to debunk it is a little weird.

No, the same comments are not being used by Bernie supporters, but thanks for playing!

[quickesst]

44. Of course I admitted to its usage...

... by Bernie's supporters, which doesn't surprise me. Logic is not one of the strongest suits on Bernie's side of the fence.

[revbones]

45. Nor by supporters of whoever you support apparently, given you admited your logical issues. nt

[quickesst]

57. Bottom line

"Loyalty pledge" "anointed one" "it's her turn" "the chosen one" etc etc etc. All of them created buy some Bernie supporters and repeated often enough to plant seeds of legitimacy as tools to be used against the dreaded "Third Way" (another one) in the revolution that wasn't, isn't, and won't be, but please, do carry on.

[revbones]

59. ROFL

Um, you do know "Third Way" is an actual organization's name on your side (apparently) right? No need to reply, your previous one said enough...

[quickesst]

63. Yes

... It is an organization, but is far from an accurate description of Hillary Clinton, and it's use here in describing her is wrong just as the aforementioned memes created by some of Bernie supporters. I will just assume that the aforementioned memes and my assessment of their origins are true given the the lack of any denial concerning them. And no, thank you for playing.

[EmperorHasNoClothes]

61. Third way "created by Bernie supporters"??

Wow, that's rich.

Look, they even have a website!
http://www.thirdway.org/

Oh, and look at who was one of the earliest third wayers! https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Third_Way

You should learn to use The Google. It's awesome.

[Buns_of_Fire]

23. Not really. I'm willing to say "sure I will" just for the sake of comity, but

in those last few milliseconds before the finger hits the key, nothing is cast in stone.

[GeorgiaPeanuts]

26. Nope

I cannot in good conscience vote for a Warhawk.
I cannot in good conscience vote for a Corporatist.
I cannot in good conscience vote for a Republican Lite.
I cannot in good conscience vote for a candidate who says my policy aspirations are unicorns
I cannot in good conscience vote for a candidate who thinks America is not great enough to join the rest of the world in enacting common sense progressive policies; who exclaims that single payer healthcare will never come to pass.

If that offends you, well too damn bad; 1 person = 1 vote

[Maedhros]

37. Integrity. What a concept.

Cheers!

[BillZBubb]

28. No, they try to browbeat people into voting for the annointed one.

It's not a tactic that will succeed.

What they have done, however, is given the Hillary fanatics a list of people to target for a purge.

[revbones]

29. True, however

Someone saying that they possibly won't do vote for Clinton in the future is not the same as someone saying that they voted for Trump. From my reading of the Terms of Service, I didn't see anything that said that to remain a member you had to vote for every Democratic nominee ever.

[pdsimdars]

32. There are way too many posts about this BullSh*t

This is just one more.

Talk about hypotheticals . . . . this is ridiculous. No one knows even who will even BE in the General Election.

This is the primary and we are to FOCUS on the two on our side to figure out which is the best.

WHEN THE PRIMARY IS OVER. . . the 2 candidates who are left will make their case to the American people. AT THAT TIME, people can evaluate what they are saying and make their decision.

At this time, it is ABSOLUTE NONSENSE, to hypothetically think about what a hypothetical candidate will say.

You have your mind filled with our CANDIDATES, you have no idea in hell what you will be thinking when you see the 2 General Election candidates are the only 2 left and are standing there making their cases.

At this time all this nonsense is a TOTAL WASTE OF TIME.

[revbones]

34. Tell us how you really feel. nt

[cherokeeprogressive]

35. Fuck loyalty to politicians and fuck anyone who demands it. Fuck party loyalty too.

Double fuck anyone who demands that.

[BernieforPres2016]

39. They have added to my Ignore list

When somebody initiates a loyalty oath thread it's the last post of theirs that I ever read.

[amborin]

40. people's loyalty should be to their core principles: honesty, integrity, trustworthiness, progressiv

values; and don't ask people to vote against their core values

[LWolf]

46. No.

They simply don't work, and often backfire.

[840high]

49. No - loyalty pledges are

very annoying.

[DanTex]

50. People who support Trump are going to keep supporting Trump.

[revbones]

52. And people who have nothing

uplifting to use to get you to support their candidate will resort to insults and fear.

[DanTex]

53. How is it an insult to call Trump supporters "Trump supporters"?

[revbones]

54. Sigh

Who in this thread said they are supporting Trump? Nobody, you just want an excuse to go down the same old rabbit hole of insulting people that have principles by calling them Trump supporters.

It's pretty old by now, but if you haven't tired of the same old tirade, go ahead...

[DanTex]

56. Bernie or Bust is a pro-Trump movement, plain and simple.

[nadinbrzezinski]

51. Nope my registration remains as it has since 2011

Decline to state voter and I will vote and will not tell the party either. Ok I could tell the boss, that be me anyway.

[JTFrog]

55. Tough shit. DU comes with its own built in loyalty pledge.

If anyone is unable to accept that once we have a nominee, then good riddance. And no, we won't be needing the vote of some idiot who can't comprehend the difference between Hillary and Trump. They are obviously a lost cause so we will concentrate on registering voters and getting out the vote.

[revbones]

58. Tough words.

You going to check everyone's vote afterwards? Doubt it.

[JTFrog]

60. Won't need to.

Just remember nobody will be buying into your special brand of criticism.

[SCantiGOP]

66. JTFrog:

I would like to give a sub-rec (is there such a thing?) to your signature line.

[revbones]

68. Somebody got up on the wrong side of the bed this morning...

Yep. You'd do well without the liberal base and independents. Good luck if that occurs.

[liberal_at_heart]

67. Hell no! I'm an Independent. I will not say on DU whom I will or won't vote for in November, but

I can tell you I owe no loyalty to any party, and I will vote for whomever I believe will fight for the workers, the poor, and the disabled in this country. Party loyalty oaths do not work on me.