Every single New York super delegate we contacted said they will vote for Hillary even if Bernie win

[kgnu_fan]

the state.

https://twitter.com/ShaunKing/status/715050026892918784

[Fairgo]

1. How very democratic of them

[peacebird]

14. The DNC has no idea how pissed off this kind of crap makes the average American

[jwirr]

38. Pissed off enough to not vote.

[upaloopa]

60. No Bernie folks are not the average American

They are a fraction of Americans

[Human101948]

63. So you are fine with elitists ignoring the will of the people?

They are also a fraction of Americans.

[upaloopa]

72. I don't respond to "So"

[Human101948]

73. Your position is indefensible, so you cannot provide an answer...

What a weak, pathetic response.

[upaloopa]

84. I am not impressed with you either

[daleanime]

82. Which is why we hounded by 'loyalty oaths'....

since we such an unimportant, tiny, insignificant sliver of america.

[CorporatistNation]

68. These Dirtballs Want To Play The Corporatist Tune Then We The People Will Have "Options" Too!

Yeah these klowns may control their "vote," however the people's perception of such unethical behavior will only irreparably harm their cause going forward. In other words they can go F**k THEMSELVES!

[PonyUp]

2. If they do that, people will refuse to vote in protest. Hello President Stump! n/t

[bettyellen]

44. But Sarandon (or anyone here) never suggested that!

[Prism]

49. She suggested precisely that

What's false about her statement? People are fed up with the Establishment. If the Democratic Party doesn't take note and adjust, people will get pissed. Pissed people looking to strike out at the Establishment could easily end up going to Trump.

Is that wrong?

She didn't say it was a good thing, though. That's where you get tied up. In merely describing what she thought may happen, self-serving opinions claim she thought that'd be awesome. She never said that part.

Could we respect a woman's full opinion? Or just not this woman?

[bettyellen]

50. She smiled and laughed while talking about a "collapse" to "bring on the revolution".

And posited that maybe it would not be a bad thing. Many here say the same. I'm glad when they don't play possum with the "some say" crap Sarandon did. Not sure what this has to do with her being a woman? She is an actor that has had some pretty stupid- and very inconsistent- ideas in the past. Nader over Gore, siding with Edwards the hedge funder.
Love her in movies, but she fucked up again.

[Prism]

54. I watched the interview twice

You are mischaracterizing her to serve your own ends.

And here on DU, I've gotten an eyeful about her appearance, her rack, her sexuality, and her relationships. And now her success in a male dominated industry is being shamed.

So, I guess that sexism doesn't bother you too much?

[nadinbrzezinski]

59. From supposed feminists.

Don't forget that

[bettyellen]

62. If I said any of those things about Sarandon- you both might have a point. But it is a lie to

say I did. I discussed he prior support for politicians, and that was it. Supposed feminist my ass. Shame on you.

[Prism]

79. There is no stoning quite as satisfying as that of a heretic

Yeah. I loved reading a self-appointed super feminist talk smack about Susan Sarandon's breasts. That was a real treat.

[bettyellen]

85. I love all the gamer and fantasy fiction references. Not really.

Don't give a shit about her breasts, but apparently you need to discuss them? Nope.

[Prism]

90. Maybe check with your friends

They're the ones who brought them up.

I actually never noticed them. Outside of Rocky Horror, maybe.

[nadinbrzezinski]

89. Agreed this campaign season has taught me a lot

And not precisely good things.

[bettyellen]

61. I haven't done any of that shaming, she is just another actor to me. Her success? Nope-

people have pointed out that she will not suffer if the collapse she smiled while describing happens. Fair enough, I think.

[Prism]

80. I would expect you would speak up in her defense

But I don't quite see that.

Not defend what she said, but at least speak out against how she's being treated currently.

Situational feminism is just the worst. Don't you agree?

[bettyellen]

83. You think I support anything any woman does? That shit is a crazy cartoon version of feminism I

have only seen described by MRA lunatics. Anyone here should know better. Her words and deeds are fair game.

I am criticizing her statements and her past political advocacy only.... why are you and Nadin pretending otherwise?
That is some slimy shit. And you are supporting your candiate because integrity- then why don't you have any?

[Prism]

92. And there are the vocab words

MRA!

That's what gets laid down when you don't have a good answer. MRA! Buh. We are not 19 year old college students here. I like to think we can manage nuanced thinking.

This feigned obtuseness is exhausting. Sarandon had an opinion of what might happen if the parties insist on continuing their Establishment politics. She didn't endorse it. She didn't cheer it on. She didn't even agree with it. She simply said, "Keep doing A, and B may be the consequence." And immediately after, she bashed Trump.

The punishment for that treasonous behavior? Shaming. Endless posts about her wealth, her appearance, her relationships, and her sexuality.

Look, if your feminism is situational, fine. I am super used to that on DU. But it's just plain exhausting to pretend otherwise. If this were a Hillary supporter getting the same treatment, I suspect you'd have little trouble finding your voice and pinpointing what is wrong with how a woman is being raked across the coals for a bit of nothing.

I'm tired of the situational bs and the double standards, and the "feminism for me, but not for thee" flavor of commentary.

You either defend women and their right to have their actual opinions heard, or you're ok with situational slandering and then bringing their entire life and appearance under review for approval.

You can't have both, so stop trying to grasp it.

[bettyellen]

94. She smiled and laughed while talking about a "collapse" to "bring on the revolution". and mused

maybe that would be better than the "status quo". No one is making it about her lady parts except for you.
This has sweet fuck all to do with feminism. She has every right to say whatever, we have every right to say it sucks. And it did.


Go defend Fiorna and Coulter if you think all womens' opinions are equal. I do not.

[Prism]

95. You didn't address a single point

And you again mischaracterized her statements. Please, quote her in full to prove your point. Should be easy, no?

And I do defend Coulter sometimes. Remember Mann Coulter? That's actually now bannable on DU. Coulter's opinions may be horrid, but she deserves that defense, as do my transgendered brothers and sisters.

Do you understand that concept? That a person can say something we disagree with, but going after them personally in a sexist or homophobic way is wrong?

This is, like, Sexism 101, and I'm puzzled (not really) that you're not grokking it.

[nadinbrzezinski]

97. They do the same with race. PoC are great

Unless they like the other guy. Why those PoC need to be silenced and disappeared the backlash has started, I fear though they will not understand why.

[bettyellen]

101. But you are lying in that I went after her in a sexist way. I did not- so this conversation --

maybe you should save it for someone who did that? Instead of lying and saying I did?
Ya think?

[Prism]

102. I never said you did

Please cite where I said so. You can quote as necessary.

[bettyellen]

105. Not sure why you and Nadin lectured me about what OTHER people were saying- instead of

what I said? More "some people say" bullshit. I love it when you can't explain the tawdry tangents you go on.
Such integrity.

[Prism]

113. You claim to be fiercely pro-woman

Well *gestures* There's the stage.

[riversedge]

57. LOL

[bettyellen]

64. We have people reading from a few different scripts. Now I attacked her for "her rack" -

does "her rack" mean support for Nader or Edwards? Or are they lying about me to score points. Such integrity.

[riversedge]

76. I have no idea. Perhaps you posted to wrong person.

[bettyellen]

77. The wrong people - "who have welcomed me to ignore" a half dozen times chimed in....

to pretend I give a shit about Sarandon further than the dangerous opinions she has recently spouted.

[nc4bo]

3. It will get ugly if that's the case. Very ugly. nt

[Smarmie Doofus]

8. You're talking about the NYS DEM Party machine:

It doesn't GET Any uglier than that.

[brooklynite]

4. You've told Alan Grayson to support Hillary Clinton...right?

[KitSileya]

12. And Grijalva and Kaptur. N/t

[CalvinballPro]

56. Erin Bilbray from Nevada won't back Clinton even though Clinton won her state. #hypocrites nt

[Firebrand Gary]

5. Good!

What's good for the goose.

If we're going to play this silly game, every Sander's super delegate that's in a place that Hillary won will have to come to her side.

[randome]

7. Exactly. It's only free will when they vote the way they're 'supposed' to vote.

[hr][font color="blue"][center]“If you're not committed to anything, you're just taking up space.”
Gregory Peck, Mirage (1965)[/center][/font][hr]

[CalvinballPro]

58. Sounds like Catholicism. "Here's free will, followed by a list of stuff you're not free to do." nt

[mucifer]

6. So why do we bother with elections?

[RiverLover]

9. The unDemocratic "Democratic" Party

DINO party on full display.

[Peace Patriot]

10. Great! NY Super Delegates declare war on their voters...

...before they've even voted!

A bit shaky in the authoritarian department. 'Vote my way, or I'm going to get real pissy with you, voter!'

This is going to backfire.

[onehandle]

11. The 'Not Hillary' Party is preparing a CONSPIRACY to explain their massive loss in New York.

Meanwhile, non-superdelegate voters will be lining up to defeat Senator Sanders in his home state.

[Fast Walker 52]

17. WTF? Seriously?

Do you really not get the point?

[Politicalboi]

71. They're blind to everything

They don't care if they win by cheating, they've already done that.

[firebrand80]

13. LOL @ the hypocrisy of all of this

The only real standard for outrage is whether or not the SDs are supporting Bernie.

[Armstead]

28. An honest solution would be for the super delegates to also vote proportionally

In otehr words, to use round numbers, if a state has 10 SD's and Clinton gets 55 percent and Bernie gets 45 percent of the pleadged deleagtes (or vice versa) the SD's should get together and agree to divide their votes in a similar manner.

That at least would allow the actual delegate counts to reflect the results of the primaries/caucuses.

[firebrand80]

35. Maybe

As long as the SDs don't go against whoever has the most PDs, Is really a non-issue IMO

[Vinca]

15. It kind of takes the democratic out of Democratic Party.

Why inconvenience the voters by making them take a day to go to the polls? If the supers are going to decide, be honest about it. Get them in a room. Give them a few cocktails. Take a vote and install Hillary. This seems to be an elaborate, expensive exercise for no real purpose since the outcome is guaranteed.

[marions ghost]

20. ++++++ditto

[riderinthestorm]

34. + another one nt

[Fast Walker 52]

16. freaking outrageous

I've heard a lot of complaints about the Dem party over the years, but they never really came home for me like this year.

[rbrnmw]

18. Go tell Tad Devine how undemocratic his system is.

He helped create it.

[riderinthestorm]

33. He's responsible for proportional respresentation of delegates only

Instead of the old way which was winner take all.

He has nothing to do with super delegates.

[EmperorHasNoClothes]

19. If the superdelegates override the will of the voters

they will have an outright revolt on their hands, and a guaranteed loss in November. They know this, which is why any claims like this right now are nothing but hot air.

[dana_b]

24. yes they will

the MFers will be traitors and responsible for President Trump

[restorefreedom]

21. how sad is it

when the republican system of generating a candidate is better than the "democratic" system?


we have crossed into new territory, and its not a good place.

[kgnu_fan]

22. Shaun King: It's not just Donald Trump who is a bigot, it's half of this country w/ a HUGE % of Dem

https://twitter.com/ShaunKing/status/715138193264390144

[restorefreedom]

23. we are rapidly descending....very scary times. nt

[kgnu_fan]

29. corrupting from inside, the most painful kind of death...

[restorefreedom]

36. yes, like a cancer. nt

[bettyellen]

47. untrue. they do everything they can to disenfranchise Dem voters.

[restorefreedom]

86. yes, true, and it seems to be spreading to the dem side

but their process for nominee choosing seems to be slightly less establishment biased.

then again, its not over yet.

[bettyellen]

87. they have a mean GOTV operation, and stick together. do they have many caucuses?

I am curious because I think this are pretty shitty- so many people work weekends or long hours and wouldn't be able to go. Those people should at least be able to mail in caucus votes.

[restorefreedom]

91. i think they do have caucuses, but from what i have seen,

it is called a caucus but seems to run like a primary. people have more flexible scheduling and actually cast ballots. its a weird hybrid but it seems to favor higher participation. so maybe between that and their gotv effort, they have been setting records while dems are treading water.

and yes, the traditional caucus model leaves a lot of people out. the people i have heard from in oregon love their vote by mail system.

[bettyellen]

93. I really want fair national standards, and alternative methods for voting. Oregon does say mail in

is working well, but unfortunately some places are going to be more corrupt than others. I could see them being thrown out (not for national elections, but for local ones) here where I live. Interesting to hear about the hybrid method. I think ID laws and the schedule should be standardized to ensure highest participation.

[restorefreedom]

98. yes, we need to be making voting more possible and accessible

but some in power see that as a threat to their existence. i guess voting reform has to include getting the hacks out of government, too, which of course is extra hard with disenfranchisement.

helluva system they set up for themselves, those corrupt pols.....

[bettyellen]

100. they make it complicated all right. locally they always used to "look up" my registration in the

wrong book every time, because I was young and they only wanted their older base to vote for school board, city council and mayor. They had two books for out precinct, one for people whose dress # ended with an odd number, one with an even number. I would say 607 X Street, and they would go straight for the even number book every time and say I was not in there! I often wondered if that was the reason they set it up like that. I would warn other voters and the last time they did it I loudly called them out on it.

And you can't get a spot working election day unless you register for the GOP. All the Dem poll workers are connected to the schools and police, and no one gets a promotion unless they work the phones and collect absentee ballots. And these sadly are Dems. There was a lot of money to be made, and they wanted to keep it all.

Twenty five years later, it is the sons and daughters of these same people. We are in text books because it is one of the few places where there actually is voter fraud- hundreds of former residents and dead people kept on the books. You can watch the people vote three times! The FBI filmed it, and did nothing. Grrrr.
Sorry! It is a thing here.

[Generic Other]

25. If superdelegates override the will of the people

They better hope their votes are enough to win the general because I predict many voters won't bother participating in a sham election. That is certainly how I feel.

[Buns_of_Fire]

26. A lot of the outrage stems from the fact that someone at the DNC

thinks it's a really swell idea for the SuperDupers to declare their allegiance before even one vote has been cast.

All it's doing at this point in the process is breeding resentment before there's even a reason to feel resentful about anything.

[jwirr]

39. That is the first issue. We had all kinds of endorsements

before we were even close to the first primary. They not only want to take over at the convention they do not even want to allow the people to make a choice. It was decided that she was inevitable before anyone was even running against her.

[pinebox]

27. It's time to ditch delegates and screw the system

We need something new that truly represents the people.
Delegates are completely undemocratic. Why should a superdelegates vote be worth 20,000 votes? No, just no! The system is rigged against the average person and if shit like this happens, people will absolutely flip out.

This is both sad and pathetic.....I'll never be a Dem and I caucused for Bernie switching my Indy affiliation to do so here in Colorado. I'm taking my indy affiliation back. I've had enough cronyism and enough of Democrats who act like Republicans which is on display here.

[randome]

31. "I'll never be a Dem". Well, then, your complaints about how the Dem Party works won't be heard.

[hr][font color="blue"][center]“If you're not committed to anything, you're just taking up space.”
Gregory Peck, Mirage (1965)[/center][/font][hr]

[pinebox]

32. Actually they will & loudly

when so many leave after this election cycle.
Both parties are bleeding and indy voters are now the largest voting block and it will only increase. Sorry but the DNC lost me, they had a chance when I switched but I refuse to be a member of a corrupt party who screws the people. Just like Dems did here http://www.dailykos.com/story/2014/1/29/1273428/-These-89-Democrats-Voted-to-Cut-8-7-Billion-from-Food-Stamps And yup, DWS voted for that.

[randome]

48. "Both parties are bleeding" means that you "bleeders" can start your own party.

I'm no fan of the two-party system -or even the DNC- but until someone does something other than complain and walk away, nothing will ever change.
[hr][font color="blue"][center]“If you're not committed to anything, you're just taking up space.”
Gregory Peck, Mirage (1965)[/center][/font][hr]

[bettyellen]

46. ditch the caucuses all together- too many people cannot spend hours just to vote.

[hrmjustin]

30. Good! She is going to win here anyway.

[Starry Messenger]

37. Good.

[Zorra]

40. It's only what their corporate masters pay them to do. Business as usual. nt

[amborin]

41. this will be the end of the Dem party; totally un-democratic; our nation is in deep crisis;

[GeorgeGist]

42. How many did NYDN contact?

[Jitter65]

43. It will be the end of the Dem party for sure if Bernie wins. That's what he wants. He said so. nt

[Human101948]

66. And end to corporatist ass kissers wing of the party?

Fine with this Democrat.

[LexVegas]

45. He won't win the state. nt

[Maedhros]

51. Let them do it.

Might as well rip away the facade and let everyone see what they are: mewling authoritarians.

[Beacool]

52. It won't be an issue for the simple reason that Sanders won't win NY.

Neither will he win PA, NJ nor MD.

[Human101948]

65. Are you comfortable with those delegates who are sticking with Hillary where Bernie won?

Because anti-democratic moves like that are not okay and are an issue.

[Beacool]

67. I'm not worried about it until the convention.

The person with the most pledged delegates will be the nominee. The same situation occurred in 2008. In MA Hillary won by almost 10%, despite her win, neither Kerry nor Kennedy switched their support from Obama to her.

[Human101948]

69. So that makes it okay?

"Mom, all the other kids are doing it!"

Heard that one before.

[Beacool]

75. It is, what it is.

[Land of Enchantment]

114. And it is broken. nt

[CalvinballPro]

70. What about superdelegates for Sanders from states that Clinton won? No double standards please.

The "Vote as your state did" would cost Sanders the support of Alan Grayson of Florida, Raul Grijalva of Arizona, and Erin Bilbray of Nevada. I don't see any of them arguing that they want to vote as their state did.

Why aren't you folks emailing them? Hmm?

[senz]

103. Oh, is the fix in?

Gonna just shove her though no matter what the people want?

[Beacool]

108. Small problem with your premise.

It's the voters who have put her in first place, and who will continue to do so in the states that I listed. Wait and see....

[senz]

110. Small problem with your reading comprehension.

The OP is based on this Tweet:

Every single New York super delegate we contacted said they will vote for Hillary even if Bernie wins the state.

[Beacool]

115. I can read perfectly well, thank you.

I repeat, since Hillary will not lose NY this won't be an issue. I also mentioned that super delegates who supported Obama in 2008 didn't change their endorsement even when Hillary won their state, I used the example of MA.

It seems that you are the one with the reading comprehension problem.

[senz]

117. Seems to be a small problem with your premise

as New York has not yet voted.

Unless you're in on something dishonest and disgusting,

[BernieforPres2016]

53. If they follow through, this is the kind of thing we Bernie supporters need to use

to persuade Bernie to run as an Independent in the November election.

[Marr]

55. I wouldn't expect them to switch to Sanders if he only pulls out a majority in *that state*.

If he gets a majority of the overall delegates, however, then they should flip. If the super delegates throw it to Clinton under those circumstances, that's the party saying they'd rather we all lose than see Sanders win.

[Merryland]

74. if she manages to pull this off

she will be the most hated-by-other-Democrats democratic candidate in history.

[senz]

116. Important point.

[Orsino]

78. Their party, their privilege. n/t

[CentralCoaster]

81. "The point is to allow the superdelegates to overturn the will of the people if they want to."

Yup, that response in thread of tweets is spot on.

It is, in fact, precisely what the DNC admits is the purpose of the superdelegates, though in different words.

[Cheese Sandwich]

88. The Democratic Party is not a democratic party

[rbrnmw]

96. people don't like being berated by lunatics at 3 am

like a friend of mine was who is a SD in Ohio

[jillan]

99. We are no longer We the People. Now we are We the Superdelegates.

Enough is Enough!

[Octafish]

104. As if the fix was in.

Heh heh heh.

[Land of Enchantment]

111. OMG is that George Wallace? That sure as hell isn't Lurleen next to him..where did you find this

rare gem?

[Octafish]

112. Michael Beschloss checked it out...

My mom's favorite historian says it's genuine:

https://twitter.com/beschlossdc/status/275941914182828033

AP CUTLINE: Wallace and his third wife, the former Lisa Taylor, meet with Vice President George Bush and Arkansas Gov. Bill Clinton at a lobster bake at Bush's residence at Kennebunkport, Maine, July 30, 1983. The third Mrs. Wallace, whom the governor married in 1981, was 30 years his junior and half of a country-western singing duo, Mona and Lisa, who had performed during his campaign in 1968.

CREDIT: AP/Birmingham Post

SOURCE: http://www.cbsnews.com/pictures/george-wallace/13/

[Land of Enchantment]

118. Wowsers. Your mom is a wise lady--reminds me of something about an apple and the tree

although I like Doris Kearns Goodwin too- think I saw them together on Bill Moyers a while back.

It must have been a governor's conference in '83. When I was ten I remember Wallace standing on the steps of Foster Auditorium to prevent blacks from registering attend the U of A. My parents had just moved us to Tuscaloosa from up north. I am permanently scarred from it and would recognize that evil bastard anywhere. Thanks for all your thorough posts and wisdom.

[senz]

106. Wonder how she got them to give up any pretense of democracy?

Imagine what she'd do as president.

[Land of Enchantment]

107. I just spent an hour trying to find a video of Donna Brazile's response to Bill Press

on CNN Saturday the 26th 'Election Coverage'. Her remarks were outrageous.


Paraphrasing:

BP---The super delegates should be eliminated because they are not required to vote the will of the voters.

DB---NO! I earned my Super delegate status and I will vote for who I believe is the best candidate... I get two votes because I am more important than the ordinary voter and I know what is best for everyone.

My jaw dropped. That is probably WHY there are no videos or transcripts available.

[Funtatlaguy]

109. Donna Brazille can barely

put together two grammatically correct sentences.
To think, she ran Gore's campaign.
She is painful to listen to.

[Blue_In_AK]

119. That's pretty much what I'm hearing here,

from the Clinton super delegate. "I've worked for the party for decades, so my vote should equal 825 plebe votes."

[HughLefty1]

122. Discouraging as hell...

I weep for our country.

I will still cast my vote for Bernie on June 7th but this entire system needs a wrecking ball. Stat.

[speaktruthtopower]

120. This is a state dominated by financial services..

the local pols know it, but the voters can do what they want.

[beedle]

121. Didn't they make changes to the delegate rules during the primary season in 2008?

Maybe even at the convention IIRC?

Time someone started to demand a few more changes happen immediately this season as well.