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Wed Mar 30, 2016, 12:58 PM

 

Average health care spend in the US is $10k per person. Somebody still has to pay for it

whether it's insurance premiums or co-pays or deductibles. Maths. You can't avoid it.

https://www.cms.gov/research-statistics-data-and-systems/statistics-trends-and-reports/nationalhealthexpenddata/downloads/highlights.pdf

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Reply Average health care spend in the US is $10k per person. Somebody still has to pay for it (Original post)
hill2016 Mar 2016 OP
HumanityExperiment Mar 2016 #1
Baobab Mar 2016 #29
HumanityExperiment Mar 2016 #30
HumanityExperiment Mar 2016 #2
HumanityExperiment Mar 2016 #3
SHRED Mar 2016 #4
Downwinder Mar 2016 #12
msongs Mar 2016 #18
Rosa Luxemburg Mar 2016 #27
GeorgiaPeanuts Mar 2016 #5
amborin Mar 2016 #6
hill2016 Mar 2016 #9
dogman Mar 2016 #11
NWCorona Mar 2016 #22
Hoyt Mar 2016 #31
dogman Mar 2016 #34
Hoyt Mar 2016 #37
dogman Mar 2016 #38
Hoyt Mar 2016 #40
insta8er Mar 2016 #7
SHRED Mar 2016 #8
Armstead Mar 2016 #10
Downwinder Mar 2016 #13
Ed Suspicious Mar 2016 #14
Downwinder Mar 2016 #16
reddread Mar 2016 #28
insta8er Mar 2016 #15
Downwinder Mar 2016 #17
My Good Babushka Mar 2016 #19
Downwinder Mar 2016 #20
Tierra_y_Libertad Mar 2016 #21
hill2016 Mar 2016 #23
Avalux Mar 2016 #24
JackRiddler Mar 2016 #25
revbones Mar 2016 #26
kgnu_fan Mar 2016 #32
lumberjack_jeff Mar 2016 #33
libtodeath Mar 2016 #35
reformist2 Mar 2016 #36
Logical Mar 2016 #39
KingFlorez Mar 2016 #41

Response to hill2016 (Original post)

Wed Mar 30, 2016, 01:00 PM

1. Shorter...

 

People get sick, it's a negative externality that we all have to contend with both as a society and as individuals

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Response to HumanityExperiment (Reply #1)

Wed Mar 30, 2016, 05:02 PM

29. Single payer is so much cheaper than what we are doing now we're probably already paying more than

enough for a health care for everybody with no additional costs to end users (since the government already pays around two thirds of all health care costs)

by Single Payer i mean NO insurance companies, no other payers- thats important- A single payer has to negotiate cost directly, also the cost of bookkeeping is vastly reduced, when people get sick they can go to the doctor immediately without fear of bankruptcy.

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Response to Baobab (Reply #29)

Wed Mar 30, 2016, 05:05 PM

30. Agreed

 

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Response to hill2016 (Original post)

Wed Mar 30, 2016, 01:01 PM

2. Shorter...

 

Keep your germs to yourself

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Response to hill2016 (Original post)

Wed Mar 30, 2016, 01:03 PM

3. Shorter...

 

let's play the game... 'Your health is a commodity' spin the wheel to see if you're covered for X this time....

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Response to hill2016 (Original post)

Wed Mar 30, 2016, 01:04 PM

4. Trillions for war though...No problem

 

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Response to SHRED (Reply #4)

Wed Mar 30, 2016, 01:26 PM

12. Public health is a National Security issue.

Call it Defense spending.

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Response to SHRED (Reply #4)

Wed Mar 30, 2016, 01:49 PM

18. yes, if we could get bernie sanders to stop voting for trillions for war... nt

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Response to SHRED (Reply #4)

Wed Mar 30, 2016, 04:51 PM

27. Nobody bats an eyelid when it's for war - mention health or education nada

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Response to hill2016 (Original post)

Wed Mar 30, 2016, 01:04 PM

5. Holy hell... I guess we aren't going to realize Truman's dream

 

Since when have DINOs decided healthcare at a right was wrong?

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Response to hill2016 (Original post)

Wed Mar 30, 2016, 01:05 PM

6. you ignore the info provided in another OP: administrative costs are what drive up healthcare costs

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Response to amborin (Reply #6)

Wed Mar 30, 2016, 01:08 PM

9. that's all of 10%

 

of health care spending.

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Response to hill2016 (Reply #9)

Wed Mar 30, 2016, 01:11 PM

11. Compound interest.

A 10% savings would be huge.

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Response to dogman (Reply #11)

Wed Mar 30, 2016, 04:15 PM

22. Maths

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Response to dogman (Reply #11)

Wed Mar 30, 2016, 05:29 PM

31. What compound savings? Expenditure increases will wipe that out within two years, probably day one

 

if we are going to pick up copays, coinsurance, deductibles, millions of uninsured people, do nothing to control utilization, etc.

I think we need universal single payer, certainly a public option to see if people will accept it, but somebody has got to be honest about the cost and what it will take to get there. Sanders darn sure isn't.

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Response to Hoyt (Reply #31)

Wed Mar 30, 2016, 08:03 PM

34. You may know more about the cost than Bernie or I.

Neither he or I are economists. Of course, unlike me, he probably knows some. Maybe you are a better economist than his consultants. I just figure if you save an unnecessary 10% overhead, that is a savings. If your expenditure increases comes along, the 10 % savings would still occur. If they can tack on 10% to an increase, that compounds. I'm not real up to date on the new math and maybe percentages work differently than they used to.

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Response to dogman (Reply #34)

Wed Mar 30, 2016, 08:47 PM

37. That 10% is just not enough. I think we do agree single payer or something close

 

is worth figuring out how to legitimatelyou pull it off.

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Response to Hoyt (Reply #37)

Wed Mar 30, 2016, 10:05 PM

38. It seems there is never enough.

But 10%(+-) is still as significant savings, why pay unnecessary overhead?

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Response to dogman (Reply #38)

Wed Mar 30, 2016, 10:33 PM

40. Well, there is none if you think Congress is going to enacut single payer and invest

 

the money to build the systems needed to implement the system.

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Response to hill2016 (Original post)

Wed Mar 30, 2016, 01:06 PM

7. Or better yet, Go and die....because you with your sickness are a burden to me and my pocket book.

 

(sarcasm)

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Response to hill2016 (Original post)

Wed Mar 30, 2016, 01:08 PM

8. So even Mexico can, but we can't...I see

 

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Response to hill2016 (Original post)

Wed Mar 30, 2016, 01:09 PM

10. Fuck it. I agree with you. Let's restore a 35 year life expectancy.

 

Healthcare will be much more financially efficient if we don't have tio deal with the ailments of middle and old age.

Grandma -- step onto the ice flow.

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Response to Armstead (Reply #10)

Wed Mar 30, 2016, 01:29 PM

13. Send out euthanasia pills.

At least allow Death with Dignity.

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Response to Downwinder (Reply #13)

Wed Mar 30, 2016, 01:39 PM

14. No! You will die naturally of cancer caused by man-made chemical

compounds, slowly, in agonizing fashion, without any money. It's the way God intended it.

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Response to Ed Suspicious (Reply #14)

Wed Mar 30, 2016, 01:47 PM

16. Damn, and here I thought we rejected torture.

Good thing we have gunz.

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Response to Armstead (Reply #10)

Wed Mar 30, 2016, 04:55 PM

28. healthcare or not, the real baby boom is going to hit

 

elderly populations lacking secure retirement prospects will hit us hard. harder still if we dont steer away from the sort of profiteering middlemen mandated to grow fat while increasing premiums, deductibles and co pays.

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Response to hill2016 (Original post)

Wed Mar 30, 2016, 01:41 PM

15. Could we please reinstate the dead panels? (sarcasm! don't you dare press that abuse button!)

 

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Response to insta8er (Reply #15)

Wed Mar 30, 2016, 01:49 PM

17. No, have to keep Consumers around.

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Response to hill2016 (Original post)

Wed Mar 30, 2016, 01:51 PM

19. As has been pointed out

a sizeable portion of that is administrative costs, and the drug monopolies , the collusion of insurance, hospitals and pharmaceutical companies to get prices as high as possible. Once the incentive to do that has been eliminated, prices would be more in line with the per capita expenditures of other OECD countries.

The second prong of bringing down health care expenditures is to change the culture that makes people sick. No more overworked, underpaid, no vacation, status quo. You wouldn't work a beast or a machine the way that this country expects low-wage workers to function. The result is they have no rest, inadequate diets, incredible stress, and become disabled and very sick much earlier than a person should. Low wages cost much more in the long run.

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Response to hill2016 (Original post)

Wed Mar 30, 2016, 03:58 PM

20. $10K -- That won't cover two months of medication!

If you are really concerned about costs, send me 100ml of Pentobarbital and a good bottle of wine.

Otherwise I will consider this faux concern.

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Response to hill2016 (Original post)

Wed Mar 30, 2016, 04:05 PM

21. Last year the government spent $66bn on health care. $598bn on killing.

 

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Response to Tierra_y_Libertad (Reply #21)

Wed Mar 30, 2016, 04:26 PM

23. ha ha

 

no you are only including discretionary spending. Please look up the mandatory spending as well.

Like I said, Maths.

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Response to hill2016 (Original post)

Wed Mar 30, 2016, 04:29 PM

24. What don't you understand about single payer?

That average healthcare cost you quote would be irrelevant. Not sure what you're trying to say with your post (well actually I do), but your logic is faulty.

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Response to hill2016 (Original post)

Wed Mar 30, 2016, 04:42 PM

25. So why is it higher as % of GDP here than elsewhere?

 

You don't have to pay for the for-profit insurance system, its 28% in "administrative" costs, or the awesome drug-price gouging.

People die, life sucks, life is unfair, etc. etc., so your argument is that profiteering and price-gouging should be tolerated, nay, allowed to be central principles of the society?

No.

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Response to hill2016 (Original post)

Wed Mar 30, 2016, 04:49 PM

26. So take out the 30% for administrative costs

 

then get rid of ridiculous drug pricing by allowing price-negotiations, etc...

Were you pretending to be right-wing or something? Those were similar arguments to those about the ACA.

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Response to hill2016 (Original post)

Wed Mar 30, 2016, 05:45 PM

32. $3.7 Trillion For U.S. Wars, $12,000 Per Person


Iraq War Cost U.S. More Than $2 Trillion, Could Grow to $6 Trillion, Says Watson Institute Study
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2013/03/14/iraq-war-cost-more-than-2-trillion_n_2875493.html

Report: $3.7 Trillion For U.S. Wars, $12,000 Per Person
http://www.globalresearch.ca/report-3-7-trillion-for-u-s-wars-12-000-per-person/26039

Fighting for a U.S. federal budget that works for all Americans
https://www.nationalpriorities.org/cost-of/

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Response to hill2016 (Original post)

Wed Mar 30, 2016, 06:52 PM

33. Maybe it ought not to be $10k?

 

The reasons it costs $10k are the differences between our system and the rest of the developed world ($5k)

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Response to hill2016 (Original post)

Wed Mar 30, 2016, 08:25 PM

35. Only if you think our current corrupt system is good.

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Response to hill2016 (Original post)

Wed Mar 30, 2016, 08:27 PM

36. We can negotiate prices down. Way down.

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Response to hill2016 (Original post)

Wed Mar 30, 2016, 10:24 PM

39. How funny Hill fans now hate free health care. nt

 

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Response to hill2016 (Original post)

Wed Mar 30, 2016, 10:49 PM

41. Transfer of costs

People would just go from paying an insurance company to paying a tax, which is really just a transfer of costs. That might or might not result in a savings for some, but it's still not really free.

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