Sanders is going to need a better answer than this for refusing to release his tax returns

[bigtree]

State of the Union @CNNSotu
Sanders will not commit to matching Clinton posting 8 yrs of tax returns on website before NY. Sanders says his wife prepares their taxes.

I haven't really thought this was going to be a big issue for his trailing campaign, although I did wonder why it's so under the radar, but this answer opens him up to more questions and makes it appear he's hiding something about his finances as he's attacking Hillary for her own.



Tom Watson ‏@tomwatson 45m45 minutes ago Manhattan, NY
Per ABC question today, media beginning to wonder: where are Bernie's tax returns? http://www.nationalmemo.com/why-hasnt-bernie-sanders-released-his-tax-returns/ … #NYPrimary

[krispos42]

1. Speech transcripts. n/t

[bigtree]

2. those aren't even in the same league

...I'd actually like to see his campaign use that prevaricating defense.

Hillary's finances and tax returns are an open book and the subject of campaign attacks from Sanders. His own finances had better be the same open-book if he expects to be taken seriously.

[Octafish]

3. $153 million in Bill and Hillary Clinton speaking fees, documented

http://www.cnn.com/2016/02/05/politics/hillary-clinton-bill-clinton-paid-speeches/

[Hoyt]

28. Heck, entertainers and sports figures make more than that.

[Rosa Luxemburg]

33. that pesky Foundation

[krispos42]

40. Yeah, her paid speeches are a much bigger deal

Bernie is career public servant in the best sense of the term. He's avoided, as far as I can tell, the Washington revolving door between holding office, being a lobbyist, and being a consultant. He hasn't cashed in on his fame on the lecture circuit or whatever.

What can his tax returns tell us? Probably nothing of interest. We know his senatorial salary and his congressional salary, which is comfortable but not excessive.

I'm curious to see what's in there, but to me at least it's far less indicative of values and future actions than Clinton's hidden speeches to the Wall Street elite.

[Land of Enchantment]

4. Really?

I'm a recovering accountant and I always do our taxes and I have not yet even printed the forms... sometimes people are you know, busy running a presidential campaign and his has taken off like a wildfire. He stated he makes his Senate salary and there's not much else to add. You are looking for something that obviously does not matter one whitt so this is a non-starter.

[bigtree]

5. then he should just release them

...like other people 'busy running a presidential campaign' have done.

[oldandhappy]

51. http://www.opensecrets.org/pfds/reports.php?year=2013&cid=N00000528

[WhiteTara]

7. He could just hire an accountant if they are that simple. nt

[bigtree]

17. seriously.

Allan Brauer ‏@allanbrauer 10m10 minutes ago

Maybe the next time Bernie yells at Jane to get off the stage he can add, "And finish our tax return!"

[timmymoff]

21. Maybe she could release her transcripts

we already know she is wealthy, like the working man.

[geek tragedy]

25. how hard is it to email the PDFs of the tax forms?

If he can't even track down his own tax forms, how does he expect to function as head of the trillion-dollar executive wing of the government?

He's not running for chair of the poli sci department at Vermont U.

[mcar]

41. I know it

They could just download them from Turbo Tax. If Ms. Sanders does them herself, she probably uses of.

[Arneoker]

42. It's UVM

Otherwise your point is a great one.

But in the grand scheme of things, is this a big deal? It ranks on the scale of the Greenpeace pledge and Hillary's speech to Goldman Sachs. (I'll bet she said nice things about them!)

Sure Bernie should release his tax returns. But he'll get around to it. That said, he and his legions of devotees shouldn't be surprised if he gets more than the usual amount of crap about this issue. After all, what's good for the gander...

[geek tragedy]

44. that's what really puzzles me--if he is going to raise a big stink over

the transcripts as a transparency attack, he had to know that the tax return thing would draw a counterpunch.

[COLGATE4]

38. You really believe that his tax returns are irrelevant?

[kerry-is-my-prez]

50. It's pretty much a gimme that this is one of the first thing that is asked during a Pres. campaign

And it especially hurts a candidate if they have a reputation for honesty and openness.

[chervilant]

6. Yawn...

What a non-issue! These efforts to disparage Senator Sanders are getting pathetic.

[bigtree]

8. this will get even worse now

...and it's of his own doing.

It's not as if the Clinton campaign is sitting on them. He should just release them before the NY primary and put this to rest.

[chervilant]

9. Just keep telling yourself that.

I'm just not interested in this faux issue.

[bigtree]

10. it really wasn't much of an issue

...until this lame and evasive answer.

You can't really believe that will suffice, or even should.

[chervilant]

18. "...lame and evasive"

Good luck pinning those pejoratives on an individual who's almost universally known for his ethics and integrity.

Of course, there are some whose raison d'etre is throwing feces to see what'll stick...

[bigtree]

19. always interesting to hear this 'universally known' stuff from supporters of a candidate

...who's trailing in folks bothering to show up and vote for him.

[timmymoff]

24. It's especially interesting

considering we were going to lose by Iowa, then super Tuesday, then march 15th ..that's what's interesting from the campaign of whine and sleaze..oops wine and cheese.

[bigtree]

49. you've been consistently behind for months

...with very little prospect of recovering.

Ergo, losing.

[chervilant]

83. Isn't it interesting,then...

how hard you -- and other anti-Bernie DUers -- are working to derogate Senator Sanders?

I don't think Hi11ary's DNC lackey, the overwhelmingly skewed coverage of her campaign by the M$M, and her big money donors have resulted in her guaranteed ascension to the office of the President, as she likely anticipated, or she wouldn't be working so hard to get rid of Bernie. Thus, we get the puerile mud slinging. How predictable.

Keep on trying to impugn Senator Sanders' integrity, bigtree. Such efforts will only highlight Hi11ary's pathetic react mode, AND will reveal her own insecurities about Bernie's continually increasing momentum.

[chervilant]

80. Apparently,

you've not seen the well-attended rallies for Senator Sanders, with lines of people waiting for the opportunity to hear him speak.

And, you can continue to derogate his numbers, but he has won - and won BIG - in the last several primaries. I'm sure Hi11ary is aware that his momentum continues to grow.

[MoonRiver]

82. Ummm, rallies do not = votes.

Just indicates there are a lot of curiosity seekers, wanting to observe the latest shiny object.

[Samantha]

74. That is why the Clinton campaign is going after Bernie's integrity

One of her biggest problems that cause her numbers to continue to decline is the high number of people saying they do not trust her. So if the trust issue is going to be a stumbling block to her winning this race, the way to attempt to negate it would be to impugn Bernie's integrity. Pretty hard to do since for the duration of his run in Vermont, voters (even Republicans) who continue to put him back in office cite the honestly factor as one of the main reasons.

It is a very often played defensive political move, but in this case, it is just not going to work.

Sam

[chervilant]

79. I agree completely.

I think it's rather sad that some anti-Bernie DUers are promoting that particular red herring.

[geek tragedy]

23. so taxes are a faux issue but speech trancripts determine the fate of the Republic? nt

[Human101948]

78. Probably not, but they will reveal Hillary's fawning relationship with Wall Street...

Which would directly contradict her statements about "fighting for you little people" campaign rhetoric.

[Arneoker]

43. The irony here is just stunning!

[Sheepshank]

54. It ended up being a serious sticking point for Mittens...this isn't going away

....there is no point in downplaying it.

[Bonobo]

11. I disagree and I will tell you exactly why.

Because unlike Hillary, people think he is trustworthy and not a political shape-shifter willing to say anything to appeal to anybody at any time.

IOW, that fly-shit will not have any effect at all.

[uponit7771]

14. No people do not think that about Sanders, he's another politician another side of same coin...

... and most don't believe a white bird on a podium means a damn thing

[Arneoker]

45. So as Trumpo the Clown would say

A marketing campaign is all about perception, not reality. Sanders has the brand.

[Sheepshank]

52. People are wrong about Bernie. A dyed in the wool politician

And everything that goes with it. He has and will continue to lie, embellish and cheat to try and win a political race. For all his self labelling of anti establishment, he's a decades old establishment. Another lie he's tried to spread.

[Bonobo]

58. That won't fly and you know why?

Because MOST people have excellent radar for bullshit, Sheepshank.

They know sleazeballs from honest people.

The trustworthy figures don't lie. That is what people perceive about Hillary --that she is not trustworthy. They DETECT it because it is obvious.

And even if you are wrong and I am right, it is what people overwhelmingly think and even you cannot argue with that.

[uponit7771]

12. Way more important than stupid transcripts to speeches

[bigtree]

15. especially with all of the attacks by Sanders yesterday in NY

...basically calling Hillary corrupt for her finances, which, btw, are an open book.

[Politicalboi]

32. Laundering money through the Clinton Foundation is an open book?

Good luck with that.

[COLGATE4]

39. Please show exactly what things Hillary has done

with the Foundation that constitute prosecutable money laundering.

[COLGATE4]

69. Crickets...

[Politicalboi]

31. So says you

Both are important, but Bernie is the one who will do what the PEOPLE ask of him. The Clinton's don't answer to peons.

[libtodeath]

13. So desperate

[ViseGrip]

16. Ha ha ha...the transcripts are more important what they say in private for money

to the special interests.

Just look at this!

http://www.alternet.org/news-amp-politics/bill-clinton-keynote-speaker-health-insurance-lobby-bash-nashville

[timlot]

20. The blocking and tackling for Sanders on DU is getting gross...

Dude needs to release is taxes just like everyone else. Or is he in the Donald Trump camp on waiting for an audit to be complete.

[geek tragedy]

22. his excuse of "we're busy" doesn't really wash, because the Clintons

are rather busy themselves.

It should take 30 minutes to get the folder out with the tax returns, take them to Kinkos, scan them to PDF, and presto.

[Chan790]

67. Sure...

when they're not on the road campaigning.

It has to be done from the physical copies of their tax returns, prepared by Jane Sanders, and sitting somewhere in their house. That's how it works if you don't use a tax preparer or accountant. If you're lucky, you might have them saved as a .pdf in a laptop, but that's unlikely.

It's not at-all like the Clintons, who have an accountant and all Hillary has to do to release her returns is call said accountant and ask hir to release them to the media.

[silvershadow]

26. I'm sure he would gladly trade his tax returns for Hillary's speech transcripts. nt

[Politicalboi]

27. Rmoney never released his

It's still early, but Bernie will show them if need be. He's not laundering money through a Sanders Foundation like some people do.

[left-of-center2012]

29. This will distract from Hillary's Wall Street millions !

Keep throwing mud at Bernie and HRC will survive.

[revbones]

30. #ReleaseTheTranscripts nt

[cherokeeprogressive]

34. No. He isn't.

[LuvLoogie]

35. You think Bernie might have a Cayman Islands tax shelter?

Edited to add:

A shelter more authentic and genuine, I'm sure.

[Nanjeanne]

36. I am a Sanders supporter and I want him to release his tax returns as well - but

this repeating of silly little tweets is so ridiculous. You can actually hear the actual interview. You can read the actual transcript of the show. He said his wife prepares their taxes. True. That means he can't call his accountant up and ask him to do something with his copies. There aren't any.

He said he will release them as soon as possible. He said he is a little busy right now. That's true too. He doesn't have the last 10 years in his back pocket. He will release them and he will release them as soon as he can (which I'm assuming means as soon as he goes home and goes to wherever he keeps them - like an office or a safe deposit box, etc.). And then he does whatever candidates do to protect their personal info like contact info and SS #s. And then gets them in the appropriate form to be released to whomever they are supposed to be released to.

But this is really nutty. The Washington Post asked for and received the main 3 pages of his 2014 taxes --- YES ONLY 3 PAGES. The same thing you send to anyone who needs to verify your taxes - not the worksheets or other backup stuff. They went through them thoroughly. Links have been posted in numerous threads. They show an income of $200,000 or so. They show exactly what he paid in federal and VT taxes. They show his deductions. They show his charitable contributions.

To try to conflate Sanders' $200,000 income into some dark secret money pit where he hides all his designer suit deductions and his Olympic horse and his estate on Cape Cod or whatever nonsense people want to assume . . . well have at it.

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[CentralMass]

37. At a quick glance Bernie has a net worth of ~$300k while Hillary has one of ~$55 million.

I will go out on the limb and guess that when he does release his financial info it will show that he is a humble public servant. The average net worth of members of Congress is ~$1 million.

So knock yourself out.

[Arneoker]

46. Hey guys, you're probably right that there is nothing there

But how do we know for sure? The optics just aren't good. I confess that Hillary has her own optics problems. But if you are going to make optics a main plank of your campaign...

[CentralMass]

47. I agree. He should release them ASAP.

[Sheepshank]

59. Your post brings two things to mind

1. What the fuck happened to all of his money?

2. If Hillary has so much, how come I'm expected to believe she is subject to bribes

[CentralMass]

68. How do you think she made her money ?

[Lucinda]

48. KNR

[phleshdef]

53. His answer will be to ultimately release them and there will be nothing interesting there...

...and then you'll conveniently forget you were ever pushing this idiotic attack.

[bigtree]

56. when that happens

...we can get back to focusing on Bernie's losing campaign.

[phleshdef]

61. Just an observation...

You are quite childish.

[bigtree]

62. blocked

[phleshdef]

65. Cowardly.

[NanceGreggs]

55. I'm trying to understand ...

... what Bernie's "wife preparing their tax returns" has to do with why they haven't been made available.

If they've been filed - why aren't they easily accessible? Are tax returns prepared by one's spouse automatically sent to a super-secret division of the IRS where, once filed, they become inaccessible?

[Bonobo]

60. Wait, you think that you can pick up the phone and have the IRS send you your returns?

That's weird.

[NanceGreggs]

66. Not at all.

Last edited Sun Apr 3, 2016, 11:35 PM - Edit history (1)

I admit to being the WORST record-keeper in history. And yet I have my tax returns going back to 1985 on hand.

If Jane prepared their returns, where did they disappear to? Did she not keep copies for their own records? Did she just send off their returns and instantly delete any computer and/or handwritten records of their content? If she only had hand-written copies - did she throw them in the fireplace once they were filed? And if so, why?

Every presidential candidate KNOWS that tax returns are expected. Why did Bernie NOT know that? Why are his returns not available?

Assuming that Jane had working papers - whether on a computer, or hand-scribbled notes - setting out their income, deductions, etc., why would she not have kept them on the chance that the IRS might question them after filing?

The "my wife did our tax returns" excuse is right up there with "the dog ate my homework".

[basselope]

70. Most people don't have them on hand.

I put in a bid on a townhouse last year and it took me weeks to dig up the 3 years of tax returns they wanted, b/c they were buried so deep.

I ultimately had to call my accountant. Luckily, they were able to get them from searching through their own files. However, if I had done my own taxes, it would have weeks before I was able to find the box they were in.

[DesertFlower]

71. mine are prepared by an accountant and

then a hard copy given to me. i file them away. i also keep all receipts for contributions, etc. in case i'm audited. there all readily accessible.

[NanceGreggs]

72. Same here.

I can't imagine someone going through the exercise of preparing returns - and then not keeping a copy of the filed returns.

If Jane had e-filed, she would have a copy in her "sent" files. If she hand-wrote them, why wouldn't she have made photocopies in case any questions arose after-the-fact?

It REALLY doesn't add up.

[R B Garr]

57. Agreed. His whole spiel is perceived morality

based on maligning Hillary and Wall Street through direct and tangential insinuations. So he should be prepared to comply himself with financial accountability. Apparently he doesn't think rules apply to him.

[hellofromreddit]

63. No he won't

You people will find something else to smear him with in a day or two.

[bigwillq]

64. Then have Jane release them (nt)

[DesertRat]

73. #BlameJane

[4now]

75. This is starting to really stink.

I just wonder what he is trying to hide in his tax returns.
I don't think that throwing his wife under the bus is going to work.

[Joob]

76. I don't want to Hear any Hillary supporter Complaining about the Time it's taking

While we have a timer going still for Hillary's transcripts
http://iwilllookintoit.com/

[grasswire]

77. stop the swift boating.

Just stop it.

[Orsino]

81. I don't care if he doesn't release eight...

...but one is pitiful.